A batshit bonkers place, that I endured in 30 degree heat (they had one fan). An experience, but even for a cat-lover like me, seventeen shades too many of weird.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
You must have loathed Kotor – THE CITY OF CATS.
lol
Actually I did somewhat loathe Kotor, but more because it is THE CITY OF AMERICANS OFF THE CRUISE BOATS
The thing is, though, the State polls match up with the national polling, which puts Harris 2-3% ahead, on average.
Biden won by 4%, and the seven swing states were all won by tiny margins. Popular Senate candidates do seem to be able to defy gravity to some degree Tester, for example, is behind by 6% or so, in Montana, but Harris is behind by 15% or so.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
I can't find any evidence of a reintroduction of sparrowhawks anywhere in the UK. Their revival was due to banning DDT and the re-establishment of their food chain.
The proliferation of sparrowhawks is a function of the food available to songbirds (and the number that are not taken by a cat first).
In the work I've done to track down and help prosecute estates killing protected species, I never found any that targeted sparrowhawks in particular (aside from the fact that some will shoot or trap anything that moves).
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
Brexit is a flop because David Cameron did not force the pro-Brexiteers to agree its shape before the referendum. This meant everyone could vote for their own, personal, unicorn Brexit, with no-one having a clue how to implement Brexit afterwards or even what they should be working towards. Singapore on Thames? Pro- or anti-immigration? More subsidies? No wonder David Davis had no folder!
It also means even the staunchest advocates of Brexit, like Nigel Farage, can distance themselves on the grounds the government clearly stuffed things up.
Turns out Brexit means Brexit was a slogan, not a policy, as was Take Back Control.
I think you’ll find it was Brexit mean’s Brexit. I’m a stickler for accuracy.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
You must have loathed Kotor – THE CITY OF CATS.
lol
Actually I did somewhat loathe Kotor, but more because it is THE CITY OF AMERICANS OFF THE CRUISE BOATS
They are easy enough to escape, just walk down some random alley and find an interesting bit. They tend to congregate in the main squares.
(The Americans, not the cats. The cats are EVERYWHERE).
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
In case you are wondering why I have liked your posts on this topic I do actually agree with you and I am not a fan of cats for the reasons you give. I also accept my hypocrisy of owning a dog. We all make compromises that make us hypocrites. Same with you on flying and though I might wind you up on it I actually don't think you are wrong.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
I think we can all agree that kini's cat ain't catching nothing that isn't tied down.
“I remember a conversation in the Brexit debate He said to me ‘you're this typical elite, trying to say you know more about it than I do’ But do you know what I said to them? I DO know more because I've been prime minister for 10yrs”
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her
So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker
I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)
Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.
Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
I refer you to my prior reply involving the word “don’t give” and “fuck” and “tiny sperm of a”
I thought (unlike my post which really was a wind up, because I don't think you should get away with this nonsense, but your reply was fair because mine was not an argument, but just a dig for fun) that @Eabhal post was well considered and deserved a sensible reply from you.
It does feel like you have shifted since you have come back. Obviously the same style is there but @Eabhal comments seem fair. I have noticed that change also. Stuff posted out of context as @TheScreamingEagles picked up. There was the outrageous one the other day where you compared sentencing of two offenders and I thought you made a very good point re the person throwing a lump of concrete at Farage. Then we find out it was wet cement and the point collapses. That type of post is exactly what left and right wing propagandists do. Similarly you have twice in the last few days justified people doing wrong things because other people on the 'other side' do them. That is not logical and a route to anarchy.
I know you enjoy outraging us, but you didn't used to do this.
But PB has been claiming this for a decade. “Ooh you’re turning into Plato” “you’ve finally gone down the rabbit hole”. Blah blah blah it’s so fucking boring
And still you keep saying it, perhaps even more persistently. But not because I’ve changed - because PB has got ever narrower and crabbier and stupider with only a narrow range of centrist woke dad opinions deemed acceptable (plus trains and housing development regulations) so that anything outside this, from any angle, seems increasingly outrageous and unhinged
The bubble is YOU. It is YOU GUYS. Not I
Perhaps this is inevitable. PB has been around for 20+ years. We’ve all got old. Old people have narrow minds and they are boring
But you know what? I’m not going gentle into that good night. I’m still out here travelling and exploring and welcoming new ideas and new places and new people because I’d die of tedium without them
Not sure if that reply should have been to me or someone else. I certainly don't think you are turning into Plato and haven't said so.
However your posts since returning have been different to when you left and it was only about what, 2 weeks or so. Could be wrong, time does fly, so it is easy to see that difference in your posts. Not the style. That is the same, but the content.
@Leon sees himself as a self-styled 'alpha' male, a spiritual tech-bro who is superior to all of us in intellect and lifestyle. In his own mind, he is a genius who is irresistible to all women. We disagree with him only because we are jealous, because he knows he is right; even when he contradicts himself. His multiple identities on here only exist because his character is so big no one identity could contain it.
He is possibly the only person in the universe to see himself in that manner, and quite possibly many see him as exactly the opposite; but that's how he sees himself.
If you view all his posts through that perspective, it makes some sense...
I think you become what you act. (Aristotle?)
I think Leon originally acted alt-right to stir up controversy, as he like to do, because he's bored. But he's grown into the part and now believes it, unlike the rest of us.
Did the same happen to Plato the PBer?
Aristotle goes a bit deeper than that. Good human character consists of the strengths which make for a person fit for the purpose of living within their community and this this develops not from rule obeying (rules are no use if you don't have the character to follow them) but from practice, practice, practice. The big four he identifies are: moderation, justice, courage and wisdom.
He is not wrong; and in this sense you become what you act. (This is why, for example, prison as mere punishment/revenge is no use at all. If prison is not about character formation it can't work. This is what might charitably be called at best a work in progress).
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her
So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker
I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)
Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.
Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
I refer you to my prior reply involving the word “don’t give” and “fuck” and “tiny sperm of a”
I thought (unlike my post which really was a wind up, because I don't think you should get away with this nonsense, but your reply was fair because mine was not an argument, but just a dig for fun) that @Eabhal post was well considered and deserved a sensible reply from you.
It does feel like you have shifted since you have come back. Obviously the same style is there but @Eabhal comments seem fair. I have noticed that change also. Stuff posted out of context as @TheScreamingEagles picked up. There was the outrageous one the other day where you compared sentencing of two offenders and I thought you made a very good point re the person throwing a lump of concrete at Farage. Then we find out it was wet cement and the point collapses. That type of post is exactly what left and right wing propagandists do. Similarly you have twice in the last few days justified people doing wrong things because other people on the 'other side' do them. That is not logical and a route to anarchy.
I know you enjoy outraging us, but you didn't used to do this.
But PB has been claiming this for a decade. “Ooh you’re turning into Plato” “you’ve finally gone down the rabbit hole”. Blah blah blah it’s so fucking boring
And still you keep saying it, perhaps even more persistently. But not because I’ve changed - because PB has got ever narrower and crabbier and stupider with only a narrow range of centrist woke dad opinions deemed acceptable (plus trains and housing development regulations) so that anything outside this, from any angle, seems increasingly outrageous and unhinged
The bubble is YOU. It is YOU GUYS. Not I
Perhaps this is inevitable. PB has been around for 20+ years. We’ve all got old. Old people have narrow minds and they are boring
But you know what? I’m not going gentle into that good night. I’m still out here travelling and exploring and welcoming new ideas and new places and new people because I’d die of tedium without them
Not sure if that reply should have been to me or someone else. I certainly don't think you are turning into Plato and haven't said so.
However your posts since returning have been different to when you left and it was only about what, 2 weeks or so. Could be wrong, time does fly, so it is easy to see that difference in your posts. Not the style. That is the same, but the content.
@Leon sees himself as a self-styled 'alpha' male, a spiritual tech-bro who is superior to all of us in intellect and lifestyle. In his own mind, he is a genius who is irresistible to all women. We disagree with him only because we are jealous, because he knows he is right; even when he contradicts himself. His multiple identities on here only exist because his character is so big no one identity could contain it.
He is possibly the only person in the universe to see himself in that manner, and quite possibly many see him as exactly the opposite; but that's how he sees himself.
If you view all his posts through that perspective, it makes some sense...
I think you become what you act. (Aristotle?)
I think Leon originally acted alt-right to stir up controversy, as he like to do, because he's bored. But he's grown into the part and now believes it, unlike the rest of us.
Did the same happen to Plato the PBer?
See also the sad stories of Colditz prisoners who feigned madness as part of their escape plans.
Or someone like Calvin Robinson who seemed like palusible enough clergy material when he visited the vicar school.
It's probably the fault of liberal centrists, though. By not taking right-wingers seriously, we force them down the rabbit hole. Or something.
Calvin Robinson is one of Mansfield's more embarrassing exports, though since he was at the St Stephen's House Vicar Factory in Oxford, that makes him a graduate of the University of Oxford, I think. I don't know whether he also has the fake MA .
He's a bit cross because he applied for a Curacy in the Diocese of London, and was not deemed suitable for any of the opportunites.
Having avoided both Robinson and Paula Vennells as Bishop, I'd say that someone in London Diocese is making the correct decisions on bullet-dodging.
If Tom Butler was Bishop of Southwark, then they dodged him, too - which supports my argument .
On +Tom, I've never met him or people who dealt with him, but he was Bp of Leicester back in the 1990s, and was known for his hobby of knitting - way ahead of the fashion ! I believe he knitted a full set of vestments at one stage (I can't find a photograph - talking 1990s here).
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her
So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker
I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)
Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.
Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
I refer you to my prior reply involving the word “don’t give” and “fuck” and “tiny sperm of a”
I thought (unlike my post which really was a wind up, because I don't think you should get away with this nonsense, but your reply was fair because mine was not an argument, but just a dig for fun) that @Eabhal post was well considered and deserved a sensible reply from you.
It does feel like you have shifted since you have come back. Obviously the same style is there but @Eabhal comments seem fair. I have noticed that change also. Stuff posted out of context as @TheScreamingEagles picked up. There was the outrageous one the other day where you compared sentencing of two offenders and I thought you made a very good point re the person throwing a lump of concrete at Farage. Then we find out it was wet cement and the point collapses. That type of post is exactly what left and right wing propagandists do. Similarly you have twice in the last few days justified people doing wrong things because other people on the 'other side' do them. That is not logical and a route to anarchy.
I know you enjoy outraging us, but you didn't used to do this.
But PB has been claiming this for a decade. “Ooh you’re turning into Plato” “you’ve finally gone down the rabbit hole”. Blah blah blah it’s so fucking boring
And still you keep saying it, perhaps even more persistently. But not because I’ve changed - because PB has got ever narrower and crabbier and stupider with only a narrow range of centrist woke dad opinions deemed acceptable (plus trains and housing development regulations) so that anything outside this, from any angle, seems increasingly outrageous and unhinged
The bubble is YOU. It is YOU GUYS. Not I
Perhaps this is inevitable. PB has been around for 20+ years. We’ve all got old. Old people have narrow minds and they are boring
But you know what? I’m not going gentle into that good night. I’m still out here travelling and exploring and welcoming new ideas and new places and new people because I’d die of tedium without them
Not sure if that reply should have been to me or someone else. I certainly don't think you are turning into Plato and haven't said so.
However your posts since returning have been different to when you left and it was only about what, 2 weeks or so. Could be wrong, time does fly, so it is easy to see that difference in your posts. Not the style. That is the same, but the content.
@Leon sees himself as a self-styled 'alpha' male, a spiritual tech-bro who is superior to all of us in intellect and lifestyle. In his own mind, he is a genius who is irresistible to all women. We disagree with him only because we are jealous, because he knows he is right; even when he contradicts himself. His multiple identities on here only exist because his character is so big no one identity could contain it.
He is possibly the only person in the universe to see himself in that manner, and quite possibly many see him as exactly the opposite; but that's how he sees himself.
If you view all his posts through that perspective, it makes some sense...
I think you become what you act. (Aristotle?)
I think Leon originally acted alt-right to stir up controversy, as he like to do, because he's bored. But he's grown into the part and now believes it, unlike the rest of us.
Did the same happen to Plato the PBer?
See also the sad stories of Colditz prisoners who feigned madness as part of their escape plans.
Or someone like Calvin Robinson who seemed like palusible enough clergy material when he visited the vicar school.
It's probably the fault of liberal centrists, though. By not taking right-wingers seriously, we force them down the rabbit hole. Or something.
Calvin Robinson is one of Mansfield's more embarrassing exports, though since he was at the St Stephen's House Vicar Factory in Oxford, that makes him a graduate of the University of Oxford, I think. I don't know whether he also has the fake MA .
He's a bit cross because he applied for a Curacy in the Diocese of London, and was not deemed suitable for any of the opportunites.
Having avoided both Robinson and Paula Vennells as Bishop, I'd say that someone in London Diocese is making the correct decisions on bullet-dodging.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
In case you are wondering why I have liked your posts on this topic I do actually agree with you and I am not a fan of cats for the reasons you give. I also accept my hypocrisy of owning a dog. We all make compromises that make us hypocrites. Same with you on flying and though I might wind you up on it I actually don't think you are wrong.
Fair enough. And yes I am probably a hypocrite re flying
However, having read the science, I now get to point at all the pet owners and say Yeah? What about YOU?
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Someone please tell Leon what oystercatchers really eat before he demands their culling.
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Yep, the issue with raptors versus cats on small bird predation is that the latter don't need to kill the birds to survive. Not a moral judgement that, but a practical one. If sparrow hawk numbers get too big and they substantially reduce the numbers of their prey in an area, then there won't be enough food and sparrow hawk population will reduce. Cats could happily kill every last bird and still go home for a nice bowl of Whiskas - the natural predator/prey equilibrium is broken.
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
Or indeed of passing the new Section 28, banning promotion of gender ideology in schools.
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
Didn't Leon used to rate her ?
Yep. She was the next Trump and going to go all the way to the top iirc.
I spotted her when she was completely unknown, and said: she has charisma and will become a player. No one on PB had even heard of her
So it was. She lost the Arizona governor fight by a whisker
I accept she’s somewhat messed up since. For a moment she looked like a credible VP pick (maybe she still does compared to Vance)
Part of her problem is - as I noted at the time - she a bit too old. She’s an attractive women but getting on in years. If she was 15 years younger she would be this firecracker beauty with a trumpite shtick and a ready wit. Now she looks like a slightly crazy granny, TBH
LOL A bit of selective memory there. You think you spot things before other people. A bit like the pet treatment getting into rivers. It was a great revelation to you and therefore it must be to everyone else on PB whereas it wasn't to quite a few of us and you found it too incredible to be true that others were aware years before you.
Of course we could go back and check, but you have blocked us all from seeing your previous posts. Why not open them up for us to view. You can see all of mine.
I refer you to my prior reply involving the word “don’t give” and “fuck” and “tiny sperm of a”
I thought (unlike my post which really was a wind up, because I don't think you should get away with this nonsense, but your reply was fair because mine was not an argument, but just a dig for fun) that @Eabhal post was well considered and deserved a sensible reply from you.
It does feel like you have shifted since you have come back. Obviously the same style is there but @Eabhal comments seem fair. I have noticed that change also. Stuff posted out of context as @TheScreamingEagles picked up. There was the outrageous one the other day where you compared sentencing of two offenders and I thought you made a very good point re the person throwing a lump of concrete at Farage. Then we find out it was wet cement and the point collapses. That type of post is exactly what left and right wing propagandists do. Similarly you have twice in the last few days justified people doing wrong things because other people on the 'other side' do them. That is not logical and a route to anarchy.
I know you enjoy outraging us, but you didn't used to do this.
But PB has been claiming this for a decade. “Ooh you’re turning into Plato” “you’ve finally gone down the rabbit hole”. Blah blah blah it’s so fucking boring
And still you keep saying it, perhaps even more persistently. But not because I’ve changed - because PB has got ever narrower and crabbier and stupider with only a narrow range of centrist woke dad opinions deemed acceptable (plus trains and housing development regulations) so that anything outside this, from any angle, seems increasingly outrageous and unhinged
The bubble is YOU. It is YOU GUYS. Not I
Perhaps this is inevitable. PB has been around for 20+ years. We’ve all got old. Old people have narrow minds and they are boring
But you know what? I’m not going gentle into that good night. I’m still out here travelling and exploring and welcoming new ideas and new places and new people because I’d die of tedium without them
Not sure if that reply should have been to me or someone else. I certainly don't think you are turning into Plato and haven't said so.
However your posts since returning have been different to when you left and it was only about what, 2 weeks or so. Could be wrong, time does fly, so it is easy to see that difference in your posts. Not the style. That is the same, but the content.
@Leon sees himself as a self-styled 'alpha' male, a spiritual tech-bro who is superior to all of us in intellect and lifestyle. In his own mind, he is a genius who is irresistible to all women. We disagree with him only because we are jealous, because he knows he is right; even when he contradicts himself. His multiple identities on here only exist because his character is so big no one identity could contain it.
He is possibly the only person in the universe to see himself in that manner, and quite possibly many see him as exactly the opposite; but that's how he sees himself.
If you view all his posts through that perspective, it makes some sense...
I think you become what you act. (Aristotle?)
I think Leon originally acted alt-right to stir up controversy, as he like to do, because he's bored. But he's grown into the part and now believes it, unlike the rest of us.
Did the same happen to Plato the PBer?
See also the sad stories of Colditz prisoners who feigned madness as part of their escape plans.
Or someone like Calvin Robinson who seemed like palusible enough clergy material when he visited the vicar school.
It's probably the fault of liberal centrists, though. By not taking right-wingers seriously, we force them down the rabbit hole. Or something.
Calvin Robinson is one of Mansfield's more embarrassing exports, though since he was at the St Stephen's House Vicar Factory in Oxford, that makes him a graduate of the University of Oxford, I think. I don't know whether he also has the fake MA .
He's a bit cross because he applied for a Curacy in the Diocese of London, and was not deemed suitable for any of the opportunites.
Having avoided both Robinson and Paula Vennells as Bishop, I'd say that someone in London Diocese is making the correct decisions on bullet-dodging.
If Tom Butler was Bishop of Southwark, then they dodged him, too - which supports my argument .
On +Tom, I've never met him or people who dealt with him, but he was Bp of Leicester back in the 1990s, and was known for his hobby of knitting - way ahead of the fashion ! I believe he knitted a full set of vestments at one stage (I can't find a photograph - talking 1990s here).
IIRC the knitting bishop of Leicester was Richard Rutt, who also wrote the definitive history of knitting, a work which has held its value second hand. Now RIP, but ended up in RC church.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
The thing is, though, the State polls match up with the national polling, which puts Harris 2-3% ahead, on average.
Biden won by 4%, and the seven swing states were all won by tiny margins. Popular Senate candidates do seem to be able to defy gravity to some degree Tester, for example, is behind by 6% or so, in Montana, but Harris is behind by 15% or so.
Harris looks likely to get Hillary's popular vote share but her votes much more efficient and swing states focused eg Trump is polling better in California and New York than he did in 2016 but Harris is polling better in Wisconsin, Michigan and Georgia than Hillary was
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
Greater London, Birmingham, Glasgow, Liverpool, Manchester have very few.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Yep, the issue with raptors versus cats on small bird predation is that the latter don't need to kill the birds to survive. Not a moral judgement that, but a practical one. If sparrow hawk numbers get too big and they substantially reduce the numbers of their prey in an area, then there won't be enough food and sparrow hawk population will reduce. Cats could happily kill every last bird and still go home for a nice bowl of Whiskas - the natural predator/prey equilibrium is broken.
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Yes, agreed. I hate paved front lawns, too
This is a rare occasion when I am not advancing a contentious argument largely to provoke, I sincerely believe all this
It would be good if science could find a compromise for now, and devise some way of removing the predatory instinct from domestic cats. We are happy to snip their bollocks off, I imagine most “loving pet owners” will be equally happy with fucking with their predator brains
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
Certainly part, but it's insects that is the real driver of this.
There are some ground-nesting birds that have particular vulnerabilities (often to sheep, oddly enough, rather than dogs), some urban adapted birds like pied wagtails might have a specific problem with cats. But it's usually stuff down the food chain that's more important.
It's the small birds NOT being killed by cats that are a bigger concern. I'm no scientist but have been bird-adjacent for parts of my life.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
Certainly part, but it's insects that is the real driver of this.
There are some ground-nesting birds that have particular vulnerabilities (often to sheep, oddly enough, rather than dogs), some urban adapted birds like pied wagtails might have a specific problem with cats. But it's usually stuff down the food chain that's more important.
I'm no scientist but have been bird-adjacent for parts of my life.
Indeed. But it now looks like the crash in insect population might be driven, in part, by all the insecticide medications we lavishly apply to pet cats and dogs, that then leach into the water system
in every possible way, owning a pet cat or dog is a big environmental negative
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The thing is, we're now reaching a sort of critical mass. About 70% of voters think Brexit was a mistake, but both main parties are acting in the vein of it having been a great success, largely for fear of a smaller group of voters in a few key and marginal constituencies.
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
If keeping other species as pets is just like slavery, is eating them akin to cannibalism?
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
Fairly static??
Statista shows a huge surge in cat ownership, from 7-8m to around 12m early in the pandemic
I imagine this is a pretty reliable stat. It’s quite easy to check how many pets exist in the UK, it’s not a shameful thing (yet!), no one denies it, you can also look at associated data like cat food sales
12 million relaxed, luxury predators in a relatively small country like the UK is gonna have a massive impact on wildlife in various ways. Inarguable
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Someone please tell Leon what oystercatchers really eat before he demands their culling.
The facts regarding cats killing birds have been demonstrated by experiments such as tracking domestic cats and seeing what they do.
The number of cats is vast, compared to the population of predatory birds.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
Seriously? You not heard of cities, towns, or suburbs. You know where most gardens are. I've never met a gamekeeper in my life. And as stated the only bird of prey introduced in my part of the world is the Red Kite which generally doesn't take birds.
For good or ill it is daft to suggest that it is the reintroduction of birds of prey and restrictions on gamekeepers that is impacting numbers of blackbirds or blue tits in Camden for instance. Whereas cats....
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The thing is, we're now reaching a sort of critical mass. About 70% of voters think Brexit was a mistake, but both main parties are acting in the vein of it having been a great success, largely for fear of a smaller group of voters in a few key and marginal constituencies.
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
Where did you get that 70% figure from? That seems too high, even if you were to ignore all undecideds.
I used to watch Curlew fledglings in the field behind our barn… the farmer would avoid cutting the silage until they had flown off… not anymore, not since a neighbour moved into the old farmhouse with two well-fed but nonetheless vicious Siamese cat hunters… the decapitated young rabbits under the car aren’t great either…
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
If keeping other species as pets is just like slavery, is eating them akin to cannibalism?
lol drole and touché
I saw an article about lab grown meat the other day - salmon, I think - which said it is close to being acceptable. Soon we will be able to synthesise delicious meat in vast factories, and - thank God - the era of industrial livestock farming will come to an end
My guess is that we will look back on the era of battery hens and pigs in boxes with utter horror, and regard ourselves as total barbarians
And I speak as a happy meat eater (albeit with greater care, these days), so yes I am a hypocrite
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The thing is, we're now reaching a sort of critical mass. About 70% of voters think Brexit was a mistake, but both main parties are acting in the vein of it having been a great success, largely for fear of a smaller group of voters in a few key and marginal constituencies.
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
The people you speak to are. I'd probably nod along with your Brexit-obsession if I had to speak to you too.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
Fairly static??
Statista shows a huge surge in cat ownership, from 7-8m to around 12m early in the pandemic
I imagine this is a pretty reliable stat. It’s quite easy to check how many pets exist in the UK, it’s not a shameful thing (yet!), no one denies it, you can also look at associated data like cat food sales
12 million relaxed, luxury predators in a relatively small country like the UK is gonna have a massive impact on wildlife in various ways. Inarguable
Yes it does BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THEIR METHODOLOGY. Read the post.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
Seriously? You not heard of cities, towns, or suburbs. You know where most gardens are. I've never met a gamekeeper in my life. And as stated the only bird of prey introduced in my part of the world is the Red Kite which generally doesn't take birds.
For good or ill it is daft to suggest that it is the reintroduction of birds of prey and restrictions on gamekeepers that is impacting numbers of blackbirds or blue tits in Camden for instance. Whereas cats....
This is where my wide travelling comes in handy
Earlier this year I went to Colombia and I stayed in one of the most bird-rich places in the world, the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta. A beautiful place replete with wildlife (one reason it has survived so well is the Colombian drug wars, paradoxically)
The noise of the birdlife was incredible. The dawn chorus almost deafening, but exquisite
As I listened to it I realized it was making me nostalgic. Because it reminded me of dawn choruses as a kid in rural England. OK they were never quite like tropical Colombia but they were loud
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
That was exactly my point about my emotional support salt water crocodile.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
Fairly static??
Statista shows a huge surge in cat ownership, from 7-8m to around 12m early in the pandemic
I imagine this is a pretty reliable stat. It’s quite easy to check how many pets exist in the UK, it’s not a shameful thing (yet!), no one denies it, you can also look at associated data like cat food sales
12 million relaxed, luxury predators in a relatively small country like the UK is gonna have a massive impact on wildlife in various ways. Inarguable
Yes it does BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THEIR METHODOLOGY. Read the post.
But you said they changed it in 2011. So the surge in 2021 would not be related to that
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
I have just placed 3 cat treats in front of my cat. He only managed to eat 1 of them, dropping the other 2 and refusing them when they were re-offered. The other cat is hiding in a tunnel. Their total lifetime bird kill total is zero. They’re kinda letting the side down, to be honest.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
Seriously? You not heard of cities, towns, or suburbs. You know where most gardens are. I've never met a gamekeeper in my life. And as stated the only bird of prey introduced in my part of the world is the Red Kite which generally doesn't take birds.
For good or ill it is daft to suggest that it is the reintroduction of birds of prey and restrictions on gamekeepers that is impacting numbers of blackbirds or blue tits in Camden for instance. Whereas cats....
I thought you meant actual large parts, not within towns and cities where clearly there are no hunting estates. I would remind you that birds can fly, quite long distances in many cases.
Has the number of cats in Camden risen in line with the recent decline in garden birds? I suspect there aren't a huge amount more gardens in Camden than there used to be, so do garden owners just own a lot more cats?
I tell you where there are no songbirds and that's the south of France. English visitors/residents bemoan it and not a moggy in sight. All local farmers with guns. For some reason I can't quite recall.
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The thing is, we're now reaching a sort of critical mass. About 70% of voters think Brexit was a mistake, but both main parties are acting in the vein of it having been a great success, largely for fear of a smaller group of voters in a few key and marginal constituencies.
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
It is slightly more complicated. When we are in the EU there is a lack of a settled will to stay there (as 2016 proved); and now we are out exactly the same applies - there is no settled will to stay out.
This is because neither in nor out is clearly and unambiguously the right course for the great majority of the population. And this is because it is obviously essential for us to be in a single market for goods but not obviously essential to have unrestricted FoM.
The sane course is also obvious but impossible: qualify FoM.
A parallel is obvious however. Until recently we were in the single market for people, goods, services and capital. Except we were not. For example: When we were in the EU an English solicitor/barrister had no right of audience in Belgium or Estonia (or even in Scotland). Just as it is now. That is not a single market in services. Do the same with FoM, and there would be no serious problem about being in the single market, either via the EU or via EEA/EFTA.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
In case you are wondering why I have liked your posts on this topic I do actually agree with you and I am not a fan of cats for the reasons you give. I also accept my hypocrisy of owning a dog. We all make compromises that make us hypocrites. Same with you on flying and though I might wind you up on it I actually don't think you are wrong.
Fair enough. And yes I am probably a hypocrite re flying
However, having read the science, I now get to point at all the pet owners and say Yeah? What about YOU?
Yes you do and you haven't yet got onto the pet food issue yet (sorry everyone if I get @leon onto another rant) which is another environmental factor for not owning pets.
And I promise I will only raise your flying with you when you raise the issue of me owning a dog. Between us we can net off our hypocrisies, although that probably isn't good for the environment.
Please feel free to go after those who don't recognise their hypocrisy. There are plenty around. I have friends who jump on every band wagon around regarding the environment. Some so trivial you think the effort to comply must be worse than the savings. Yet they fly business class all over the world on holiday and post it endlessly on Facebook and don't get the irony.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
That was exactly my point about my emotional support salt water crocodile.
lol. VG
There is probably evidence that keeping massive machine guns in your house makes you personally feel more secure, but we don’t allow it. Also owning a slave probably offered “mental benefits for the owner”, as the slave did all that boring work in the kitchen
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
Fairly static??
Statista shows a huge surge in cat ownership, from 7-8m to around 12m early in the pandemic
I imagine this is a pretty reliable stat. It’s quite easy to check how many pets exist in the UK, it’s not a shameful thing (yet!), no one denies it, you can also look at associated data like cat food sales
12 million relaxed, luxury predators in a relatively small country like the UK is gonna have a massive impact on wildlife in various ways. Inarguable
Yes it does BECAUSE THEY CHANGED THEIR METHODOLOGY. Read the post.
But you said they changed it in 2011. So the surge in 2021 would not be related to that
I can't see the original report because it now wants me to get a paid subscription, butI suspect I said 2011 when I meant 2021 - I apologise and withdraw my shouty response.
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
Good afternoon
Are you proud of your last paragraph?
Frankly it is embarrassing
Top marks for deciphering the word salad. I still don't quite understand his point.
Afternoon all from the land of Hellas. Talking of crumbling legacies of Boris, something has to give with the Brexit debate. As an example, even my aged Gloucestershire cousins, green wellie types who voted for Brexit, are baffled by the lack of attention paid to it, given that that most of friends are farmers, most of whom now regret their choice. The under-50's in general seem similarly baffled, and there's seems barely any support for it in ahy of the big cities. Something will have to give, such as a vote on returning to the single market, because a very large number of people are not feeling represented, in the current situation.
In the way that they travelled from Section 28 to advocating gay marriage, I can foresee a future Tory leader fronting the campaign to rejoin.
No they wouldn't as there are no circumstances where Tory voters are more likely to back rejoin the EU than Labour or LD voters. Plus it would likely require the Euro etc now too so at most if we rejoin it would probably be EEA not full EU and at the moment even Labour oppose rejoining both and even the LDs only back rejoining the EEA not the EU.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
The thing is, we're now reaching a sort of critical mass. About 70% of voters think Brexit was a mistake, but both main parties are acting in the vein of it having been a great success, largely for fear of a smaller group of voters in a few key and marginal constituencies.
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
Two curious things about things that can't go on forever.
The first is that they can persist, in a kind of stable instability, for a very long time.
The other is that, when they flip, it happens pretty quickly and without an apparent significant trigger. The scene in 1984 where the enemy in The War changes from Eurasia to Eastasia sort of describes the dynamics, though that was about a sinister top down thing, whereas it can also happen innocently and bottom-up. Or boiling water in a kettle; nothing happens for ages, then it all happens at once.
(The physics of state changes is very much my bag, baby. There's a parallel universe where I'm one of Dom Cummings's physics geeks. Probably for the best all round that we're not in that one.)
My hunch is that the guy who drew the parallel between Brexit and Prohibition in the US was probably onto something. Let's see.
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
If keeping other species as pets is just like slavery, is eating them akin to cannibalism?
lol drole and touché
I saw an article about lab grown meat the other day - salmon, I think - which said it is close to being acceptable. Soon we will be able to synthesise delicious meat in vast factories, and - thank God - the era of industrial livestock farming will come to an end
My guess is that we will look back on the era of battery hens and pigs in boxes with utter horror, and regard ourselves as total barbarians
And I speak as a happy meat eater (albeit with greater care, these days), so yes I am a hypocrite
Ditto. I think sometime in the future eating meat will be viewed in the same way as hunting and I also say that as someone who enjoys all sorts of meat.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
That was exactly my point about my emotional support salt water crocodile.
lol. VG
There is probably evidence that keeping massive machine guns in your house makes you personally feel more secure, but we don’t allow it. Also owning a slave probably offered “mental benefits for the owner”, as the slave did all that boring work in the kitchen
“But…. Who will wash my dishes now??”
There was a letter from a slave owner, appalled that when the Emancipation happened, the slave who pushed her disabled little boy's wheel chair (19th cent version) left. The selfishness!
The was no hint that she could consider pushing it herself, IIRC.
The thing about machine guns is nonsense. Everyone needs a large thermonuclear weapon.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
There’s one group of immigrants who are very pro-cat and anti-dog: Muslims. One Hadith reads:
“Five animals are vicious and harmful and are to be killed (even) inside the Sacred Precincts: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse, and the mordacious dog.”
Whereas another reads:
“Verily, cats are not impure, as they meander around you.”
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9d18449ye4t UK riots sentencing live: Man jailed for nine years after setting fire to asylum seeker hotel during Rotherham riot - BBC News
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
You must have loathed Kotor – THE CITY OF CATS.
lol
Actually I did somewhat loathe Kotor, but more because it is THE CITY OF AMERICANS OFF THE CRUISE BOATS
And Brits, our cruise ship docked there last year.
Kotor is ace. The old dears selling Rakija and Loza outside the old city are brilliant.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
That was exactly my point about my emotional support salt water crocodile.
lol. VG
There is probably evidence that keeping massive machine guns in your house makes you personally feel more secure, but we don’t allow it. Also owning a slave probably offered “mental benefits for the owner”, as the slave did all that boring work in the kitchen
“But…. Who will wash my dishes now??”
I find all this dribbling sympathy for both livestock and now even domestic pets - the luckiest beings bar humans on the planet, to be ridiculous. If you were a soul, swimming around the interstellar ooze, given the chance to have an earth-bound experience for a while before rejoining, you'd absolutely take being someone's collie or even a well-treated beef cow, over not coming at all.
JD Vance responds to the deadly shooting in Georgia by saying school shootings are just “a fact of life” and attacking common sense gun safety reform https://x.com/KamalaHQ/status/1831861963187519518
Harris should propose legislation to make gun owners liable for illegal use of their guns by others if they fail to secure them.
Clearly it's impossible to ban guns in the US. But it ought to be possible to make gun owners and manufacturers legally obliged to behave responsibly. Which they currently aren't.
Plus mandatory insurance (though this SC would probably rule that unconstitutional.)
Not sure happy is the right word but I am happy to know that if in the UK there was a school shooting and a UK politician response was that it was a fact of life that would be the end of the politician's career.
Mayor Sadiq Khan said that Islamist terror attacks were just “part and parcel” of living in a big city like London
Presumably his career ended after that?
Actual Khan quote:
“Party and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for these things, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”
What Vance said:
The Ohio senator was asked by a journalist what can be done to stop school shootings. He said further restricting access to guns, as many Democrats advocate, won’t end them, noting they happen in states with both lax and strict gun laws. He touted efforts in Congress to give schools more money for security.
“I don’t like that this is a fact of life,” Vance said. “But if you are a psycho and you want to make headlines, you realize that our schools are soft targets. And we have got to bolster security at our schools. We’ve got to bolster security so if a psycho wants to walk through the front door and kill a bunch of children they’re not able.”
How reasonable Vance sounds depends how reasonable you think opposing checking whether someone is a known 'psycho' with eg a criminal record before handing them a gun is.
The phrase “part and parcel” was grotesquely complacent - vis a vis brutal murderous terror attacks. It doesn’t really matter what he said afterwards (tho in fact what he said afterward doesn’t truly exonerate him)
Let’s switch it up so you and @TSE and the other slow learners can see what I mean
“Part and parcel of living in a great global city is you’ve got to be prepared for racist murders of black children, you’ve got to be vigilant, you’ve got to support the police doing an incredibly hard job, you got to support the security services.”
See?
If a right wing mayor said that you’d be screaming for her resignation within an hour. But because it was odious lefty gnome Khan, it’s all good
Are you trying to say it’s better *not* to be prepared for bad stuff happening?
All he is saying is that New York is at greater risk of an attack than Upper Tiddlyminster
The easy way to remove cats’ ability to predate on birds is to make them physically unable to by overfeeding them so much they become fat slobs. A large proportion of the British cat population is somewhere between overweight and morbidly obese.
The other menace to small birds in my back garden is the parakeets. I can see them out there now. About 10 of them sitting in the tree squawking. They bully other birds off their turf.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
There’s one group of immigrants who are very pro-cat and anti-dog: Muslims. One Hadith reads:
“Five animals are vicious and harmful and are to be killed (even) inside the Sacred Precincts: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse, and the mordacious dog.”
Whereas another reads:
“Verily, cats are not impure, as they meander around you.”
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Except Sparrowhawk numbers have not been increasing since the mid 1990s and have actually dropped slightly. Red Kites are carrion birds not hunters.
The idea that the decline of bit=rds garden birds is due to birds of prey is simply not supported by the evidence.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
I have just placed 3 cat treats in front of my cat. He only managed to eat 1 of them, dropping the other 2 and refusing them when they were re-offered. The other cat is hiding in a tunnel. Their total lifetime bird kill total is zero. They’re kinda letting the side down, to be honest.
I once visited a couple in Oz who owned a rather large cat. Over the course of a couple of hours, whilst we got progressively more drunk, the cat played with a ginormous moth. Or more accurately, tortured it. It would catch this moth, which it had already hurt, trap it between its paws, let it try to fly away, then pounce again.
This went on for hours. Sometimes the cat would walk away for a few minutes as the moth tried to fly, before returning. At the end, it just dispatched the moth and left it as a treat on the hostess's lap.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
"It turns out the pet care industry has funded a lot of studies."
"The results have been mixed. Studies often fail to find any robust link between pets and human well-being; some even find evidence of harms. In many cases, the studies simply can’t determine whether pets cause the observed effect or are simply correlated with it."
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
If keeping other species as pets is just like slavery, is eating them akin to cannibalism?
lol drole and touché
I saw an article about lab grown meat the other day - salmon, I think - which said it is close to being acceptable. Soon we will be able to synthesise delicious meat in vast factories, and - thank God - the era of industrial livestock farming will come to an end
My guess is that we will look back on the era of battery hens and pigs in boxes with utter horror, and regard ourselves as total barbarians
And I speak as a happy meat eater (albeit with greater care, these days), so yes I am a hypocrite
Ditto. I think sometime in the future eating meat will be viewed in the same way as hunting and I also say that as someone who enjoys all sorts of meat.
I believe factory farming will be seen with far MORE disapproval than hunting
How bad is hunting? A few foxes, some shot pheasants? You can argue that the foxes are vermin and the pheasant are consumed
Compare that to billions of sentient mammals - some extremely intelligent, like pigs - which we breed and keep in squalid conditions, solely so they can be brutally slaughtered and eaten
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9d18449ye4t UK riots sentencing live: Man jailed for nine years after setting fire to asylum seeker hotel during Rotherham riot - BBC News
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
It's not true to say that all the senate candidates are MAGA. The GOP had a concerted effort this year to pick more conventional candidates and generally succeeded apart from Arizona and Ohio. For example, the Pennsylvania candidate used to work in the George W Bush administration, whilst the Montana candidate was a Navy SEAL.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
I think larger birds if prey will take smaller ones, on occasion, so the reintroduction of eagles etc is probably a good thing for songbirds. All in balance.
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
But they’re not in “good condition”. Multiple small bird species across the UK are in grave trouble
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
The statistics on cat ownership, which I've just had a look for, are not clear. Statista switched to an online survey mechanism around 2011, causing a massive jump which they've not ironed out - subsequently numbers have shown as fairly static.
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
There’s one group of immigrants who are very pro-cat and anti-dog: Muslims. One Hadith reads:
“Five animals are vicious and harmful and are to be killed (even) inside the Sacred Precincts: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse, and the mordacious dog.”
Whereas another reads:
“Verily, cats are not impure, as they meander around you.”
Now, if someone was rabidly anti-Muslim and anti-cat, they’d probably link their two hates. Well, if they had any intelligence.
Is this an attempt to turn this into a Culture War thing?
1) Lots of people like pets 2) Cats are good as relatively self organising pets - long absences fine etc.... 3) Domestic cats kill lots of wild birds.
These are all proven facts.
@bondegezou is just embarrassed because he’s a prig who likes to see himself as on the “correct” and “progressive” side of every argument, but he owns a cat so is irrefutably not, in this case
Note how he claims his cat never takes birds. Every single cat owner says this, see @kinabalu on this very thread. It must be all the OTHER cats taking 50 million birds a year, then, not any cats actually owned by anyone, maybe they are ghost cats. Alien cats. Cats from some parallel universe teleporting into the gardens of Newent
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
I find that very difficult to believe. There are no gamekeepers in large parts of the country surely and they aren't protecting the same birds that are in gardens. The only introduced bird of prey, I believe, in my part of the world in the Red Kite and that doesn't take birds generally.
Happy to be proved wrong on this. Do you have any links (other than from the grouse-moor industry).
Which large parts of the country are there no gamekeepers in?
Seriously? You not heard of cities, towns, or suburbs. You know where most gardens are. I've never met a gamekeeper in my life. And as stated the only bird of prey introduced in my part of the world is the Red Kite which generally doesn't take birds.
For good or ill it is daft to suggest that it is the reintroduction of birds of prey and restrictions on gamekeepers that is impacting numbers of blackbirds or blue tits in Camden for instance. Whereas cats....
I thought you meant actual large parts, not within towns and cities where clearly there are no hunting estates. I would remind you that birds can fly, quite long distances in many cases.
Has the number of cats in Camden risen in line with the recent decline in garden birds? I suspect there aren't a huge amount more gardens in Camden than there used to be, so do garden owners just own a lot more cats?
Yes birds can fly long distances sometimes when they migrate, but be sensible the blue tits and blackbirds in Camden don't pootle off to the Yorkshire moors for the weekend. They stay in their own territory until and if they migrate. And garden birds are called garden birds for a reason.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Why prioritise birds over cats? Or mice, or rats?
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Because everyone enjoys the beauty and song of wild birds. Only you enjoy the company of your cat
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
There is plenty of evidence that pet ownership is beneficial to the health and well-being of their owners. If that harms the eco-system, well so be it. We've been harming the eco-system since we left our caves.
That was exactly my point about my emotional support salt water crocodile.
lol. VG
There is probably evidence that keeping massive machine guns in your house makes you personally feel more secure, but we don’t allow it. Also owning a slave probably offered “mental benefits for the owner”, as the slave did all that boring work in the kitchen
“But…. Who will wash my dishes now??”
I find all this dribbling sympathy for both livestock and now even domestic pets - the luckiest beings bar humans on the planet, to be ridiculous. If you were a soul, swimming around the interstellar ooze, given the chance to have an earth-bound experience for a while before rejoining, you'd absolutely take being someone's collie or even a well-treated beef cow, over not coming at all.
You find sympathy for battery chickens or factory-farmed pigs… “ridiculous”
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Yep, the issue with raptors versus cats on small bird predation is that the latter don't need to kill the birds to survive. Not a moral judgement that, but a practical one. If sparrow hawk numbers get too big and they substantially reduce the numbers of their prey in an area, then there won't be enough food and sparrow hawk population will reduce. Cats could happily kill every last bird and still go home for a nice bowl of Whiskas - the natural predator/prey equilibrium is broken.
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Yes, agreed. I hate paved front lawns, too
This is a rare occasion when I am not advancing a contentious argument largely to provoke, I sincerely believe all this
It would be good if science could find a compromise for now, and devise some way of removing the predatory instinct from domestic cats. We are happy to snip their bollocks off, I imagine most “loving pet owners” will be equally happy with fucking with their predator brains
Ah, well on cats it's easy. Bell on collar saves all but the slowest/doziest prey, who probably won't last long anyway.
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
Hm. Cats kill birds and mice. But surely cat owners reduce the amount of wildlife killed? My cats would have been alive anyway. But they would have been fending for themselves, and therefore reliant on what they could kill. And if they were successful they would have bred and made more cats. Whereas they're all neutered.
I do have some qualms about the latter - pets have a hugely more comfortable and secure life than feral cats, but are unable to pass on their genes - I'm genuinely not sure whether I'm doing them a favour by giving them a home - but there's a net positive to wildlife to having them non-dependent on catching food to stay alive.
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
It's not true to say that all the senate candidates are MAGA. The GOP had a concerted effort this year to pick more conventional candidates and generally succeeded apart from Arizona and Ohio. For example, the Pennsylvania candidate used to work in the George W Bush administration, whilst the Montana candidate was a Navy SEAL.
The GOP’s also picked a loon for the North Carolina gubernatorial race, Mark Robinson. Holocaust denial, climate change denial, anti-abortion but paid for his girlfriend to have an abortion, porn addiction, multiple bankruptcies, said Obama wasn’t born in the U.S., said Michelle Obama was a man, racist, defended Bill Cosby, tax evasion…
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9d18449ye4t UK riots sentencing live: Man jailed for nine years after setting fire to asylum seeker hotel during Rotherham riot - BBC News
The resistance by pet owners to the reality of pets’ impact on wildlife is one of the most interesting mental syndromes I have encountered in recent years
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
Hm. Cats kill birds and mice. But surely cat owners reduce the amount of wildlife killed? My cats would have been alive anyway. But they would have been fending for themselves, and therefore reliant on what they could kill. And if they were successful they would have bred and made more cats. Whereas they're all neutered.
I do have some qualms about the latter - pets have a hugely more comfortable and secure life than feral cats, but are unable to pass on their genes - I'm genuinely not sure whether I'm doing them a favour by giving them a home - but there's a net positive to wildlife to having them non-dependent on catching food to stay alive.
If pet owners did not exist there would be no pets. The UK would not naturally support 12 million feral cats. Eventually they would starve or we would exterminate them - precisely because of their threat to wildlife
I nearly always agree with you @Cookie but this is an example of what I’m saying. Pet owners contort themselves into ridiculous illogic to defend the indefensible
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Yep, the issue with raptors versus cats on small bird predation is that the latter don't need to kill the birds to survive. Not a moral judgement that, but a practical one. If sparrow hawk numbers get too big and they substantially reduce the numbers of their prey in an area, then there won't be enough food and sparrow hawk population will reduce. Cats could happily kill every last bird and still go home for a nice bowl of Whiskas - the natural predator/prey equilibrium is broken.
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Yes, agreed. I hate paved front lawns, too
This is a rare occasion when I am not advancing a contentious argument largely to provoke, I sincerely believe all this
It would be good if science could find a compromise for now, and devise some way of removing the predatory instinct from domestic cats. We are happy to snip their bollocks off, I imagine most “loving pet owners” will be equally happy with fucking with their predator brains
Ah, well on cats it's easy. Bell on collar saves all but the slowest/doziest prey, who probably won't last long anyway.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Except Sparrowhawk numbers have not been increasing since the mid 1990s and have actually dropped slightly. Red Kites are carrion birds not hunters.
The idea that the decline of bit=rds garden birds is due to birds of prey is simply not supported by the evidence.
Crows are far more firmly designated as carrion than Red Kite, and it doesn't stop them pecking out the eyes of baby lambs if given half the chance.
I am afraid that birds of prey are a cause celebre, and as such they can do no wrong.
This is someone's actual experience of a Sparrowhawk:
Sparrowhawk decimates bird population Jan 22/11/2010 21:56 I fully sympathise with anyone who suffers from sparrowhawks. I get very angry at the comment that it is an indication of a "healthy bird population." Up until about 2 months ago we would see a sparrowhawk briefly about once a month. I do not deny that it is an impressive sight. However, the sparrowhawk then started visiting on a daily basis, on some days up to 5 times. We used to be the envy of our friends and neighbours as our garden was a haven for all types of birds. At times we would have up to 30 birds feeding in the garden, gold finches, blue tits, great tits, green finches, wrens, robins, willow tits, blackbirds, thrushes, and so the list goes on. I used to spend at least £30 a month on bird food. However, once the sparrowhawk made his regular "food collection" visits to our garden, the bird population was decimated. We have lived in our house for 28 years and this is the first time that we have not had a "healthy bird population". It would be truer to say that the constant presence of a sparrowhawk is a signal that the local bird population is about to be wiped out. We haven't seen a sparrowhawk for over a week now. But then that is not surprising because there are no birds! Can't remember when I last bought bird food. What an extremely sad situation.
Of course there is also a selection of other commentors chiding the woman for not being grateful that she doesn't get garden birds any more, because 'nature'. The same sorts of common or garden nutters that want wolves brought back.
A cat on the other hand does not decimate bird populations because they take the occasional garden bird - as others have said, they are fully fed and are just indulging a hunting instinct. If a cat brought in more than two birds a week it would be a big issue and the owner would probably take steps.
A suspended Labour councillor has denied encouraging violent disorder in connection with comments at a counter-protest.
If found guilty, he'll be getting a very long time inside (i.e. a lot more than what the knuckledraggers who were smart enough to plead guilty got).
What he's alleged to have said is pretty problematic. But I wonder how much context and intent comes in - had he said 'should be shot' it would be understood as more rhetorical flourish. Throats cut is a bit too plausible - quite possible some among those he was speaking to may have had the means to go and do that right then. He may be in a spot of bother. If we're convicting people for suggesting burning down asylum hotels on twitter then it's hard to see how the alleged is much more defensible.
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9d18449ye4t UK riots sentencing live: Man jailed for nine years after setting fire to asylum seeker hotel during Rotherham riot - BBC News
Given he had two of the statutory aggravating factors (relevant previous convictions, hate crime) I'm surprised it wasn't the max (10 years).
The sentence is after deduction for his guilty plea - the BBC haven't reported the sentencing but I suspect he got the full 12 years with a deduction for the plea..
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Pet owners need to grow up and own the truth. If you must have a pet cat or dog, accept what these animals are doing to our wildlife
“Cats kill in excess of 50 million birds each year as well as frogs, slow worms and various small mammals. Given these facts there are a few points to consider if you are thinking of bringing a cat into an area where birdlife is thriving”
Animals kill other animals. That's just a fact of life.
But that doesn’t mean we should introduce 12 million EXTRA predators (fed and housed by us) who completely devastate the eco system, slaughtering 50 MILLION birds a year (and much else) and all because we “like” the company of cats
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
Yep, the issue with raptors versus cats on small bird predation is that the latter don't need to kill the birds to survive. Not a moral judgement that, but a practical one. If sparrow hawk numbers get too big and they substantially reduce the numbers of their prey in an area, then there won't be enough food and sparrow hawk population will reduce. Cats could happily kill every last bird and still go home for a nice bowl of Whiskas - the natural predator/prey equilibrium is broken.
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Yes, agreed. I hate paved front lawns, too
This is a rare occasion when I am not advancing a contentious argument largely to provoke, I sincerely believe all this
It would be good if science could find a compromise for now, and devise some way of removing the predatory instinct from domestic cats. We are happy to snip their bollocks off, I imagine most “loving pet owners” will be equally happy with fucking with their predator brains
Ah, well on cats it's easy. Bell on collar saves all but the slowest/doziest prey, who probably won't last long anyway.
Apparently the bells don’t work
The bells don't work. By the time the cat pounces and the bell sounds it's likely too late anyway.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Except Sparrowhawk numbers have not been increasing since the mid 1990s and have actually dropped slightly. Red Kites are carrion birds not hunters.
The idea that the decline of bit=rds garden birds is due to birds of prey is simply not supported by the evidence.
Crows are far more firmly designated as carrion than Red Kite, and it doesn't stop them pecking out the eyes of baby lambs if given half the chance.
I am afraid that birds of prey are a cause celebre, and as such they can do no wrong.
This is someone's actual experience of a Sparrowhawk:
Sparrowhawk decimates bird population Jan 22/11/2010 21:56 I fully sympathise with anyone who suffers from sparrowhawks. I get very angry at the comment that it is an indication of a "healthy bird population." Up until about 2 months ago we would see a sparrowhawk briefly about once a month. I do not deny that it is an impressive sight. However, the sparrowhawk then started visiting on a daily basis, on some days up to 5 times. We used to be the envy of our friends and neighbours as our garden was a haven for all types of birds. At times we would have up to 30 birds feeding in the garden, gold finches, blue tits, great tits, green finches, wrens, robins, willow tits, blackbirds, thrushes, and so the list goes on. I used to spend at least £30 a month on bird food. However, once the sparrowhawk made his regular "food collection" visits to our garden, the bird population was decimated. We have lived in our house for 28 years and this is the first time that we have not had a "healthy bird population". It would be truer to say that the constant presence of a sparrowhawk is a signal that the local bird population is about to be wiped out. We haven't seen a sparrowhawk for over a week now. But then that is not surprising because there are no birds! Can't remember when I last bought bird food. What an extremely sad situation.
Of course there is also a selection of other commentors chiding the woman for not being grateful that she doesn't get garden birds any more, because 'nature'. The same sorts of common or garden nutters that want wolves brought back.
A cat on the other hand does not decimate bird populations because they take the occasional garden bird - as others have said, they are fully fed and are just indulging a hunting instinct. If a cat brought in more than two birds a week it would be a big issue and the owner would probably take steps.
12 million cats each take 4-5 birds a year on average. They’ve done the science
A suspended Labour councillor has denied encouraging violent disorder in connection with comments at a counter-protest.
If found guilty, he'll be getting a very long time inside (i.e. a lot more than what the knuckledraggers who were smart enough to plead guilty got).
What he's alleged to have said is pretty problematic. But I wonder how much context and intent comes in - had he said 'should be shot' it would be understood as more rhetorical flourish. Throats cut is a bit too plausible - quite possible some among those he was speaking to may have had the means to go and do that right then. He may be in a spot of bother. If we're convicting people for suggesting burning down asylum hotels on twitter then it's hard to see how the alleged is much more defensible.
The German ambassador has confirmed that even if they decide to use Rwanda this will be for processing . This will not be a send them there and leave them there UK policy .
Thought so. A key difference.
lol. Do you think the average British voter is going to think “Ah, yes, the clever Germans have a different policy of sending them to Rwanda compared to our policy of sending them to Rwanda. That’s why theirs has worked and Starmer was right to get rid of ours”
If the Germans really do this (I have doubts, they might even need EU agreement I think) and it actually works, that will be disastrous for Starmer. The boats will still be coming, because he scrapped Rwanda
***
Actually quite a nice photo. Painterly
I’m afraid I have become even more anti-cat however. If I have gone down any rabbit hole it is in my sincere loathing for domesticated predators
I was recently in a lovely “eco-camp” on the Tara River in northern Montenegro. It’s an Edenic place, beautiful river, great canoeing, it’s where I nearly died in the rapids, good beer
But their gorgeous al fresco riverside bar and bistro was haunted by about 10 young stray cats, sort of fed and cared for by the staff. A few years ago I would have found them endearing, now I have read the science I kept thinking: fuck, how many tiny birds and wild mammals are these cats devouring. Probably dozens a week, slowly depleting the beautiful forests of all their wildlife
it’s tragic. Once you have the petophobophany, and you understand this, you don’t come back. We need to get rid of all pets, and people that keep pets are - generally, not always - selfish wankers
Cats have been a fact of British life (thanks J D Vance), for good or ill, for centuries. The recent decline in garden birds has far more to do with the reintroduction of birds of prey, with clampdowns on what gamekeepers can do to eliminate them.
Aye, White-tailed Eagles have been munching on Blue Tits. Avian popcorn.
What do you think Sparrowhawks eat numnuts - fish finger sandwiches?
Except Sparrowhawk numbers have not been increasing since the mid 1990s and have actually dropped slightly. Red Kites are carrion birds not hunters.
The idea that the decline of bit=rds garden birds is due to birds of prey is simply not supported by the evidence.
Crows are far more firmly designated as carrion than Red Kite, and it doesn't stop them pecking out the eyes of baby lambs if given half the chance.
I am afraid that birds of prey are a cause celebre, and as such they can do no wrong.
This is someone's actual experience of a Sparrowhawk:
Sparrowhawk decimates bird population Jan 22/11/2010 21:56 I fully sympathise with anyone who suffers from sparrowhawks. I get very angry at the comment that it is an indication of a "healthy bird population." Up until about 2 months ago we would see a sparrowhawk briefly about once a month. I do not deny that it is an impressive sight. However, the sparrowhawk then started visiting on a daily basis, on some days up to 5 times. We used to be the envy of our friends and neighbours as our garden was a haven for all types of birds. At times we would have up to 30 birds feeding in the garden, gold finches, blue tits, great tits, green finches, wrens, robins, willow tits, blackbirds, thrushes, and so the list goes on. I used to spend at least £30 a month on bird food. However, once the sparrowhawk made his regular "food collection" visits to our garden, the bird population was decimated. We have lived in our house for 28 years and this is the first time that we have not had a "healthy bird population". It would be truer to say that the constant presence of a sparrowhawk is a signal that the local bird population is about to be wiped out. We haven't seen a sparrowhawk for over a week now. But then that is not surprising because there are no birds! Can't remember when I last bought bird food. What an extremely sad situation.
Of course there is also a selection of other commentors chiding the woman for not being grateful that she doesn't get garden birds any more, because 'nature'. The same sorts of common or garden nutters that want wolves brought back.
A cat on the other hand does not decimate bird populations because they take the occasional garden bird - as others have said, they are fully fed and are just indulging a hunting instinct. If a cat brought in more than two birds a week it would be a big issue and the owner would probably take steps.
12 million cats take 4-5 birds a year. They’ve done the science
That’s 50 million birds
The sparrowhawk in the quoted example was visiting 5 times A DAY.
Owning pets makes no more sense than horse racing or eating deep fried scorpions.
We have living things on this planet and the structure of our society means that generally we have a hierarchy of treatment with differing views at the margin (eg dog hot pot in northern China, or the "wild" animal markets in the south).
It's all illogical. No more pets = cat population plummets; no more horse racing = horse population likewise. Same for cattle and pigs. And cockapoos.
We are slightly howling at the moon by railing against it.
On topic, I hope you're right but I suspect it is down to the roasters the GOP have selected, they keep on picking utter bellends over the last few years for the senate.
Remember Roy Moore?
Kari Lake is proving to be an even bigger embarrassment in her race in Arizona, bigger than he attempt to be governor, only a moron would ever think she was impressive.
It's not true to say that all the senate candidates are MAGA. The GOP had a concerted effort this year to pick more conventional candidates and generally succeeded apart from Arizona and Ohio. For example, the Pennsylvania candidate used to work in the George W Bush administration, whilst the Montana candidate was a Navy SEAL.
The GOP’s also picked a loon for the North Carolina gubernatorial race, Mark Robinson. Holocaust denial, climate change denial, anti-abortion but paid for his girlfriend to have an abortion, porn addiction, multiple bankruptcies, said Obama wasn’t born in the U.S., said Michelle Obama was a man, racist, defended Bill Cosby, tax evasion…
What’s with this thing of arguing First Ladies are men? They’ve been doing that about Brigitte Macron too. A very odd development.
Comments
Actually I did somewhat loathe Kotor, but more because it is THE CITY OF AMERICANS OFF THE CRUISE BOATS
Biden won by 4%, and the seven swing states were all won by tiny margins. Popular Senate candidates do seem to be able to defy gravity to some degree Tester, for example, is behind by 6% or so, in Montana, but Harris is behind by 15% or so.
On the issue of *actual votes*, I'd recommend this piece from Sean Trende. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2022/08/16/what_washington_states_primaries_predict_for_the_midterms.html
It points to Harris winning c.48% on the day.
The proliferation of sparrowhawks is a function of the food available to songbirds (and the number that are not taken by a cat first).
In the work I've done to track down and help prosecute estates killing protected species, I never found any that targeted sparrowhawks in particular (aside from the fact that some will shoot or trap anything that moves).
Or it’s a global figure, 10 chickens per person, rather than the national figure from the RSBP article.
(The Americans, not the cats. The cats are EVERYWHERE).
People simply refuse to hear it, and won’t accept it, even the most rational. We are so in love with these animals we contort ourselves to justify it and blot out the truth
I wonder if slavery was the same. How many otherwise humane, civilised people must have twisted themselves into all kinds of shapes to justify keeping and selling chained men and women as chattels? They weren’t all Nazis who gloated and exulted
An excess of Whiskas does him very well.
https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-senate-election-polls/
https://emersoncollegepolling.com/september-state-polling-california-florida-ohio-texas/
Tony Blair:
“I remember a conversation in the Brexit debate
He said to me ‘you're this typical elite, trying to say you know more about it than I do’
But do you know what I said to them?
I DO know more because I've been prime minister for 10yrs”
He is not wrong; and in this sense you become what you act. (This is why, for example, prison as mere punishment/revenge is no use at all. If prison is not about character formation it can't work. This is what might charitably be called at best a work in progress).
On +Tom, I've never met him or people who dealt with him, but he was Bp of Leicester back in the 1990s, and was known for his hobby of knitting - way ahead of the fashion ! I believe he knitted a full set of vestments at one stage (I can't find a photograph - talking 1990s here).
It is irredeemably selfish. Sorry
So is now an economic migrant.
However, having read the science, I now get to point at all the pet owners and say Yeah? What about YOU?
In some respects, I'm not that fussed by cats taking lots of birds, because that is a signal that the lower part of the food chain is in good condition. They are replacing other mammals that find it difficult to survive in a suburban environment.
And pet cats (and to an extent dogs) are part of the problem
My own cat slaughters mice with gusto, and that's a good thing, because they would be swarming thought my house, otherwise.
Plus of course most Tory MPs voted against gay marriage, it was only Labour and LD MPs who got it through and it was a coalition Tory and Liberal Democrat government not a Conservative majority government that proposed it
That said, I'd back whoever said upthread that it's more about habitat removal than anything. A completely lawned garden (or worse, paved/astroturfed) offers little to support bird life.
Maybe Leicester had lots of knitting bishops.
Pet ownership is a pure act of selfishness. “Fuck the ecosystem and the wildlife, I want a pet because I’m bored, lonely, stupid, delete as appropriate”
I accept my opinion is not popular. People REALLY do not want to hear this
The worst types are pet owners who are also eco-loon Greens. The cognitive dissonance is so intense they spontaneously self-combust
This is a rare occasion when I am not advancing a contentious argument largely to provoke, I sincerely believe all this
It would be good if science could find a compromise for now, and devise some way of removing the predatory instinct from domestic cats. We are happy to snip their bollocks off, I imagine most “loving pet owners” will be equally happy with fucking with their predator brains
I don't think migration (which is where population growth has mainly come from) is going to result in symmetrical increases in the cat population - these people will not necessarily have the settled accommodation necessary to have a cat, and may not come from countries where cat ownership is common.
There is said to have been a lockdown increase in cat (and dog) ownership, but this was far more dogs than cats, and things seem to have levelled off since.
There are some ground-nesting birds that have particular vulnerabilities (often to sheep, oddly enough, rather than dogs), some urban adapted birds like pied wagtails might have a specific problem with cats. But it's usually stuff down the food chain that's more important.
It's the small birds NOT being killed by cats that are a bigger concern. I'm no scientist but have been bird-adjacent for parts of my life.
in every possible way, owning a pet cat or dog is a big environmental negative
The mood against is such that this can't go on and won't be sustainable in the long term.
Statista shows a huge surge in cat ownership, from 7-8m to around 12m early in the pandemic
https://www.statista.com/statistics/515381/cats-population-in-the-united-kingdom-uk/
I imagine this is a pretty reliable stat. It’s quite easy to check how many pets exist in the UK, it’s not a shameful thing (yet!), no one denies it, you can also look at associated data like cat food sales
12 million relaxed, luxury predators in a relatively small country like the UK is gonna have a massive impact on wildlife in various ways. Inarguable
The number of cats is vast, compared to the population of predatory birds.
For good or ill it is daft to suggest that it is the reintroduction of birds of prey and restrictions on gamekeepers that is impacting numbers of blackbirds or blue tits in Camden for instance. Whereas cats....
I saw an article about lab grown meat the other day - salmon, I think - which said it is close to being acceptable. Soon we will be able to synthesise delicious meat in vast factories, and - thank God - the era of industrial livestock farming will come to an end
My guess is that we will look back on the era of battery hens and pigs in boxes with utter horror, and regard ourselves as total barbarians
And I speak as a happy meat eater (albeit with greater care, these days), so yes I am a hypocrite
Earlier this year I went to Colombia and I stayed in one of the most bird-rich places in the world, the Sierra Nevada de Santa Marta. A beautiful place replete with wildlife (one reason it has survived so well is the Colombian drug wars, paradoxically)
The noise of the birdlife was incredible. The dawn chorus almost deafening, but exquisite
As I listened to it I realized it was making me nostalgic. Because it reminded me of dawn choruses as a kid in rural England. OK they were never quite like tropical Colombia but they were loud
Can you hear that anywhere in the UK now?
Probably not
https://westcountryvoices.com/i-used-to-get-irritated-by-the-dawn-chorus/
Are you proud of your last paragraph?
Frankly it is embarrassing
Has the number of cats in Camden risen in line with the recent decline in garden birds? I suspect there aren't a huge amount more gardens in Camden than there used to be, so do garden owners just own a lot more cats?
Edit: and glue. Yuk. Humans, eh.
This is because neither in nor out is clearly and unambiguously the right course for the great majority of the population. And this is because it is obviously essential for us to be in a single market for goods but not obviously essential to have unrestricted FoM.
The sane course is also obvious but impossible: qualify FoM.
A parallel is obvious however. Until recently we were in the single market for people, goods, services and capital. Except we were not. For example: When we were in the EU an English solicitor/barrister had no right of audience in Belgium or Estonia (or even in Scotland). Just as it is now. That is not a single market in services. Do the same with FoM, and there would be no serious problem about being in the single market, either via the EU or via EEA/EFTA.
I'm not sure that I'd like to see flocks that darken the heavens
https://blog.history.in.gov/flocks-that-darken-the-heavens-the-passenger-pigeon-in-indiana/
And I promise I will only raise your flying with you when you raise the issue of me owning a dog. Between us we can net off our hypocrisies, although that probably isn't good for the environment.
Please feel free to go after those who don't recognise their hypocrisy. There are plenty around. I have friends who jump on every band wagon around regarding the environment. Some so trivial you think the effort to comply must be worse than the savings. Yet they fly business class all over the world on holiday and post it endlessly on Facebook and don't get the irony.
There is probably evidence that keeping massive machine guns in your house makes you personally feel more secure, but we don’t allow it. Also owning a slave probably offered “mental benefits for the owner”, as the slave did all that boring work in the kitchen
“But…. Who will wash my dishes now??”
The first is that they can persist, in a kind of stable instability, for a very long time.
The other is that, when they flip, it happens pretty quickly and without an apparent significant trigger. The scene in 1984 where the enemy in The War changes from Eurasia to Eastasia sort of describes the dynamics, though that was about a sinister top down thing, whereas it can also happen innocently and bottom-up. Or boiling water in a kettle; nothing happens for ages, then it all happens at once.
(The physics of state changes is very much my bag, baby. There's a parallel universe where I'm one of Dom Cummings's physics geeks. Probably for the best all round that we're not in that one.)
My hunch is that the guy who drew the parallel between Brexit and Prohibition in the US was probably onto something. Let's see.
The was no hint that she could consider pushing it herself, IIRC.
The thing about machine guns is nonsense. Everyone needs a large thermonuclear weapon.
“Five animals are vicious and harmful and are to be killed (even) inside the Sacred Precincts: the crow, the kite, the scorpion, the mouse, and the mordacious dog.”
Whereas another reads:
“Verily, cats are not impure, as they meander around you.”
Which is why you will often see cats happily meandering around mosques, e.g. https://www.dailysabah.com/life/2016/02/01/peaceful-cohabitation-inside-istanbul-mosque-with-cats-worshippers-enjoying-each-others-company
Now, if someone was rabidly anti-Muslim and anti-cat, they’d probably link their two hates. Well, if they had any intelligence.
BBC News - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c9d18449ye4t
UK riots sentencing live: Man jailed for nine years after setting fire to asylum seeker hotel during Rotherham riot - BBC News
Kotor is ace. The old dears selling Rakija and Loza outside the old city are brilliant.
All he is saying is that New York is at greater risk of an attack than Upper Tiddlyminster
The other menace to small birds in my back garden is the parakeets. I can see them out there now. About 10 of them sitting in the tree squawking. They bully other birds off their turf.
1) Lots of people like pets
2) Cats are good as relatively self organising pets - long absences fine etc....
3) Domestic cats kill lots of wild birds.
These are all proven facts.
The idea that the decline of bit=rds garden birds is due to birds of prey is simply not supported by the evidence.
This went on for hours. Sometimes the cat would walk away for a few minutes as the moth tried to fly, before returning. At the end, it just dispatched the moth and left it as a treat on the hostess's lap.
Is having a pet good for you? The fuzzy science of pet ownership
"It turns out the pet care industry has funded a lot of studies."
"The results have been mixed. Studies often fail to find any robust link between pets and human well-being; some even find evidence of harms. In many cases, the studies simply can’t determine whether pets cause the observed effect or are simply correlated with it."
How bad is hunting? A few foxes, some shot pheasants? You can argue that the foxes are vermin and the pheasant are consumed
Compare that to billions of sentient mammals - some extremely intelligent, like pigs - which we breed and keep in squalid conditions, solely so they can be brutally slaughtered and eaten
It ain’t pretty. Speed the day when we can end it
https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/offences/crown-court/item/criminal-damage-arson-with-intent-to-endanger-life-or-reckless-as-to-whether-life-endangered/
Sounds right.
Note how he claims his cat never takes birds. Every single cat owner says this, see @kinabalu on this very thread. It must be all the OTHER cats taking 50 million birds a year, then, not any cats actually owned by anyone, maybe they are ghost cats. Alien cats. Cats from some parallel universe teleporting into the gardens of Newent
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgrj75yx2q0o
A suspended Labour councillor has denied encouraging violent disorder in connection with comments at a counter-protest.
If found guilty, he'll be getting a very long time inside (i.e. a lot more than what the knuckledraggers who were smart enough to plead guilty got).
OK
I do have some qualms about the latter - pets have a hugely more comfortable and secure life than feral cats, but are unable to pass on their genes - I'm genuinely not sure whether I'm doing them a favour by giving them a home - but there's a net positive to wildlife to having them non-dependent on catching food to stay alive.
I nearly always agree with you @Cookie but this is an example of what I’m saying. Pet owners contort themselves into ridiculous illogic to defend the indefensible
I am afraid that birds of prey are a cause celebre, and as such they can do no wrong.
This is someone's actual experience of a Sparrowhawk:
Jan 22/11/2010 21:56
I fully sympathise with anyone who suffers from sparrowhawks. I get very angry at the comment that it is an indication of a "healthy bird population." Up until about 2 months ago we would see a sparrowhawk briefly about once a month. I do not deny that it is an impressive sight. However, the sparrowhawk then started visiting on a daily basis, on some days up to 5 times. We used to be the envy of our friends and neighbours as our garden was a haven for all types of birds. At times we would have up to 30 birds feeding in the garden, gold finches, blue tits, great tits, green finches, wrens, robins, willow tits, blackbirds, thrushes, and so the list goes on. I used to spend at least £30 a month on bird food. However, once the sparrowhawk made his regular "food collection" visits to our garden, the bird population was decimated. We have lived in our house for 28 years and this is the first time that we have not had a "healthy bird population". It would be truer to say that the constant presence of a sparrowhawk is a signal that the local bird population is about to be wiped out. We haven't seen a sparrowhawk for over a week now. But then that is not surprising because there are no birds! Can't remember when I last bought bird food. What an extremely sad situation.
https://community.rspb.org.uk/nature-on-your-doorstep/f/wildlife-in-the-garden/26760/sparrowhawk-decimates-bird-population
Of course there is also a selection of other commentors chiding the woman for not being grateful that she doesn't get garden birds any more, because 'nature'. The same sorts of common or garden nutters that want wolves brought back.
A cat on the other hand does not decimate bird populations because they take the occasional garden bird - as others have said, they are fully fed and are just indulging a hunting instinct. If a cat brought in more than two birds a week it would be a big issue and the owner would probably take steps.
That’s 50 million birds
We have living things on this planet and the structure of our society means that generally we have a hierarchy of treatment with differing views at the margin (eg dog hot pot in northern China, or the "wild" animal markets in the south).
It's all illogical. No more pets = cat population plummets; no more horse racing = horse population likewise. Same for cattle and pigs. And cockapoos.
We are slightly howling at the moon by railing against it.