Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. Sign in or register to get started.

So, it begins – politicalbetting.com

124

Comments

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    If the polls are undercooking Trump like last time, then he is probably the one who is cheap.

    That said... the polls understated the Democrats at the midterms, and all the evidence is that Democrat enthusiasm is higher than Republican.

    So, yes, I tend to agree that Harris is slightly cheap.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,114
    edited September 4
    TimS said:

    How long till Blur re-form just do they can play a series of gigs at £20 a ticket?

    Gorillaz Marketing?
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,916

    Watching PMQs, thinking Rishi is doing a pretty good job. SKS good bat back at Kemi, but other than that he just looks a bit flappy and snarly. Certainly not someone who has just won a 200 seat majority and should be commanding all he can see.

    To be fair to Starmer, I thought he was trying quite hard to answer the questions (that will not last, I suspect).

    There is a somewhat prickly defensiveness to him though, that I think he has to try and avoid. It does make him look somewhat haughty, and it could become a bit of a weak point opponents could exploit.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,089

    algarkirk said:

    Can I risk a summary of Moore-Bick? Competence, the rule of law, good faith and honesty are of much greater importance than all other factors in running the world and are very hard to achieve.

    And UKplc and UK governance are worse than you can imagine.

    The most damning thing from that report, all the deaths were avoidable.
    It is, although that's pretty common.
    Can someone please invite @Cyclefree to write another header?

    “I Told You So, You Fucking Fools” - R Conquest

    Also, Lesson Will Be Learned*.

    *No actual Lessons included. Or Learning. Or Will. Or Bees, for that matter. All Wrong Reserved. May contain nuts, May contain nutters.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,089
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    Lennon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    Not really wanting to defend Neil in general, but surely he's right here. As on that logic, everything that's not a pure commodity is a monopoly. Gail's are using monopoly power to price artisanal sourdough bread expensively - I'm not going to be satisfied with Coop sliced white?
    Oasis and their agents are being attacked for bad practice when they could just have sold tickets to the highest bidders and made more money instead of underpricing. The high resale price shows that the market price is higher than Oasis are asking.

    Better bargains elsewhere. Figaro and La Traviata are on at Covent Garden at £12-£200.
    The problem is that your average Oasis fan can’t afford several hundred quid, the band don’t want to give the impression to their fans that they’re pricing the people out, and the venues want to come across as being accessible to all.

    Which is pretty much why the events industry came up with Ticketmaster. They were set up to take the crap away from artists and venues, by keeping all the shady business practices under one branded entity - so the fans are having a go at TM rather than the band or the venue.
    Common People, eh?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    algarkirk said:

    mercator said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    It's only a monopoly in the relevant sense if Oasis are putting unfair obstacles in the way of you or me booking Wembley and selling tickets to a boringly derivative rock and roll concert. Actually the music business is remarkably unmonopolistic - Oasis can't even stop you doing a covers concert as Quoasis or whatever because of the odd copyright rules. So strap on your guitar and play.
    The best way of selling tickets to real fans without too much regard for wealth is to sell them at a physical ticket office (in winter in Manchester), max 2 per person, with a carefully curated and supervised queue. Bring your own tent. (I'm not joking).
    Which of course is exactly what Oasis fans in the ‘90s would have done!

    Many fun mornings were spent queuing outside record shops and theatres, waiting for the latest gig to go on sale. Something that generated a sense of camaraderie, rather than the tout-dominated online bunfight that’s today’s ticketing market.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    I’m in the old royal capital of CETINJE for the second time and I’m going to see my THIRD set of STECCE
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    algarkirk said:

    Lennon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    Not really wanting to defend Neil in general, but surely he's right here. As on that logic, everything that's not a pure commodity is a monopoly. Gail's are using monopoly power to price artisanal sourdough bread expensively - I'm not going to be satisfied with Coop sliced white?
    Oasis and their agents are being attacked for bad practice when they could just have sold tickets to the highest bidders and made more money instead of underpricing. The high resale price shows that the market price is higher than Oasis are asking.

    Better bargains elsewhere. Figaro and La Traviata are on at Covent Garden at £12-£200.

    Watching Oasis in 2025 would just make me poor.
    Watching Figaro or La Traviata would result in PTSD
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    DavidL said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    But we assured repeatedly on here by the PB Trump Arse Lickers / Bedwetters that RFK quitting would be good for their man.

    Any sign of this? No.

    As many of us said at the time, it appears to have made sod all difference.

    Funny old world.
    You were also repeatedly assured, and not just by me, that Pennsylvania remains the key. Tied there is not good news.

    What I think is tolerably clear is that very substantial momentum Harris got when selected has somewhat run its course. She is not falling back but she is not continuing to gain either. It's put her fractionally in the lead but the deal is not sealed. The debate is going to be a high risk event for both of them.
    I agree, but I was saying that the sky was blue, and you are now telling me that the sea is green. My point was about the RFK Jr effect (or lack of) – nothing to do with the race in PA.

  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    I’ve been travelling the world doing this job for almost FORTY YEARS and I still get excited by road tunnels. There is something intrinsically sexy and glamorous about them. The exotic lights everywhere and the big whirring fans and the speeding cars and trucks making that ripply sound in the dark and you wait for the sign of daylight at the end and then wow the sun and it’s all futuristic

    I hate road tunnels WITHOUT lights. They are just terrifying

    Thanks. Had to get that off my chest
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145

    TimS said:

    Reassuring it's not quite so bad here, or a grim foretaste of the future? France's pensions funding crisis:

    https://x.com/Valen10Francois/status/1831263397771440308

    One of the benefits, alongside the problems, of the UK having moved heavily away from state and into personal pension provision is that we don't have this sort of liability on our public balance sheet. The trouble is everything sort of fits together in different ways as a result. Our pensioners get nowhere near as much from the state as in many European countries, even after the triple lock, but personal pensions don't provide anywhere near that level of income either. Instead, our retired population own vast wealth in the form of housing, most of which is owned outright with no mortgage. Housing wealth has taken the place of state pensions in providing for the elderly.

    Future generations won't have the same levels of housing equity as the current retired population. I expect house prices to track inflation or earnings for the foreseeable future. So the gap will need to be filled somehow.

    "Generation Rent" is a retirement disaster waiting to happen.

    Unless the plan is to end the concept of retirement.
    Retirement is not finished as a concept. The new version is retirement early fifties for half the country and late seventies/body gives up for the other half.
  • eristdooferistdoof Posts: 5,065
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    mercator said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    It's only a monopoly in the relevant sense if Oasis are putting unfair obstacles in the way of you or me booking Wembley and selling tickets to a boringly derivative rock and roll concert. Actually the music business is remarkably unmonopolistic - Oasis can't even stop you doing a covers concert as Quoasis or whatever because of the odd copyright rules. So strap on your guitar and play.
    The best way of selling tickets to real fans without too much regard for wealth is to sell them at a physical ticket office (in winter in Manchester), max 2 per person, with a carefully curated and supervised queue. Bring your own tent. (I'm not joking).
    Which of course is exactly what Oasis fans in the ‘90s would have done!

    Many fun mornings were spent queuing outside record shops and theatres, waiting for the latest gig to go on sale. Something that generated a sense of camaraderie, rather than the tout-dominated online bunfight that’s today’s ticketing market.
    When I saw Oasis, I went to a record shop that was selling Glastonbury Tickets. No queuing, .. and tickets available for over a month. Mind you that was back when lots of people didn't bother buying Glastonbury tickets, but just found a hole in the fence.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,037
    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    MaxPB said:

    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
    Probably.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,143
    edited September 4
    eristdoof said:

    MattW said:

    Watching PMQs, thinking Rishi is doing a pretty good job. SKS good bat back at Kemi, but other than that he just looks a bit flappy and snarly. Certainly not someone who has just won a 200 seat majority and should be commanding all he can see.

    I'm quite enjoying some of these new MP names.

    Emma Foody MP, initials ELF.
    Talking of Ms Foody, this mornig I heard a radio discussion on the history of the Currywurst. One of the contributors was called Tim Koch (Cook) who is a chef in the city of Essen (food).
    Wasn't it the Brits to blame, adding to our immaculate record on terrible food?
  • TimS said:

    How long till Blur re-form just do they can play a series of gigs at £20 a ticket?

    Gorillaz Marketing?
    Very good!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,089
    mercator said:

    MaxPB said:

    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
    Probably.
    Actually, the UK incumbent quoted an insane number. One of those "This government contract will put my company back into profit, build a new factory and fill the pension plan deficit. In one go." things.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    mercator said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    It's only a monopoly in the relevant sense if Oasis are putting unfair obstacles in the way of you or me booking Wembley and selling tickets to a boringly derivative rock and roll concert. Actually the music business is remarkably unmonopolistic - Oasis can't even stop you doing a covers concert as Quoasis or whatever because of the odd copyright rules. So strap on your guitar and play.
    I just got an email from a ticketing agency offering tickets to multiple oasis tribute bands next summer...
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,145
    Scott_xP said:

    mercator said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    It's only a monopoly in the relevant sense if Oasis are putting unfair obstacles in the way of you or me booking Wembley and selling tickets to a boringly derivative rock and roll concert. Actually the music business is remarkably unmonopolistic - Oasis can't even stop you doing a covers concert as Quoasis or whatever because of the odd copyright rules. So strap on your guitar and play.
    I just got an email from a ticketing agency offering tickets to multiple oasis tribute bands next summer...
    Count me in definitely, maybe.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    mercator said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    It's only a monopoly in the relevant sense if Oasis are putting unfair obstacles in the way of you or me booking Wembley and selling tickets to a boringly derivative rock and roll concert. Actually the music business is remarkably unmonopolistic - Oasis can't even stop you doing a covers concert as Quoasis or whatever because of the odd copyright rules. So strap on your guitar and play.
    The best way of selling tickets to real fans without too much regard for wealth is to sell them at a physical ticket office (in winter in Manchester), max 2 per person, with a carefully curated and supervised queue. Bring your own tent. (I'm not joking).
    Which of course is exactly what Oasis fans in the ‘90s would have done!

    Many fun mornings were spent queuing outside record shops and theatres, waiting for the latest gig to go on sale. Something that generated a sense of camaraderie, rather than the tout-dominated online bunfight that’s today’s ticketing market.
    In the early 90s Genesis did a tour of 'town halls' at the end of one of their massive stadium tours. I only found out about it when i saw the queue outside the box office...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503

    algarkirk said:

    Can I risk a summary of Moore-Bick? Competence, the rule of law, good faith and honesty are of much greater importance than all other factors in running the world and are very hard to achieve.

    And UKplc and UK governance are worse than you can imagine.

    The most damning thing from that report, all the deaths were avoidable.
    It is, although that's pretty common.
    Can someone please invite @Cyclefree to write another header?

    “I Told You So, You Fucking Fools” - R Conquest

    Also, Lesson Will Be Learned*.

    *No actual Lessons included. Or Learning. Or Will. Or Bees, for that matter. All Wrong Reserved. May contain nuts, May contain nutters.
    She’s gone - as she told me - because all the Woke centrist dads on here drove her nuts

    Perhaps reflect on that. All of you PB Woke Centrist Dads. You are not just MONUMENTALLY boring you drive people off the site with your fucking tedious and predictable Wokeness. And your boring-ness
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,958
    edited September 4
    You say eye watering, I say fair market rate for the best of humanity.

    The Premier League failed in an attempt to make Everton pick up its full £4.9million legal costs for last season’s Profitability and Sustainability Rules case.

    A commission and appeal board instead ruled that Everton should only pay £1.7million, about a third of the total amount, with the Premier League covering the remaining £3.2million for the PSR case which resulted in Everton being deducted ten points, reduced to six on appeal.

    Everton had challenged the league’s costs, with their lawyer Celia Rooney telling the appeal that the figures submitted were “frankly eye-watering”. The full findings of the costs appeal are revealed in a judgment made on July 5, which is now available on the Premier League’s website...

    ...Legal experts have told The Times that given the costs disclosed for Everton, the costs of the Manchester City cases will be many tens of millions of pounds.

    The appeal board’s judgment shows that the Premier League paid its lawyers Linklaters much higher fees than Everton paid their law firm Pinsent Masons for similar work. Everton claimed the costs sought as recoverable by the Premier League were “both unexplained and inexplicable” and “grossly excessive”.

    The club stated that the cost per witness statement was more than five times higher for the league (£148,668 for the Premier League, compared with £26,637 for the club), and cost per document disclosed was 19 times higher (£9,773 compared with £515).

    The hourly rate charged by the Premier League’s lawyers of £940 was “nearly double” the then guideline rate of £512 and the £550 charged by Pinsent Masons, Everton argued.


    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/football/article/premier-league-everton-legal-costs-psr-rules-fwfwdgwqt
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Interesting observation on the Tory leadership

    @stephenkb
    The second is that 137 Conservative MPs ignored the huge amount of evidence that Rishi Sunak could not become Tory leader in the summer of 2022, passing over two candidates who could have beaten Liz Truss while doing so.

    https://x.com/stephenkb/status/1831305223123443721
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,175
    .
    Leon said:

    I’ve been travelling the world doing this job for almost FORTY YEARS and I still get excited by road tunnels. There is something intrinsically sexy and glamorous about them. The exotic lights everywhere and the big whirring fans and the speeding cars and trucks making that ripply sound in the dark and you wait for the sign of daylight at the end and then wow the sun and it’s all futuristic

    I hate road tunnels WITHOUT lights. They are just terrifying

    Thanks. Had to get that off my chest

    Freudian.

    You should try S Korea, btw. They have some doozies.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    MaxPB said:

    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
    Didn't the UK incumbent try and put the price up 3x compared to their previous bid?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    It pains me to admit it, but I prefer the dark blue passports to the old maroon/burgundy ones (I still have an old one and it's rapidly running out of pages for stamps). Of course would could have had blue ones during our time in the EU anyway, but the fact remains blue is a more aesthetically pleasing shade than burgundy.

    Hopefully soon we can ditch the whole passport nonsense and just have a card or an app on our phone, or even a chip in our forearm, with all our travel and visa data digitised.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,226
    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It would be an interesting to see what happened if they set up a system where the tickets started at £5k a pop and the price dropped by £5 every ten minutes until they were all gone. Ideally with a tool which let you put in a price point, and if the tickets got down to your price point it sold you a ticket.

    Doubtless it would cause outrage, but it's probably fairer than the current arrangement where the main benificaries appear to be ticket touts.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,890
    ...
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    And I thought you were a Green Party cabinet member for Bartestree Parish Council.
  • mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    New passports were tendered entirely under OJEU single market tendering rules.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    I’ve been travelling the world doing this job for almost FORTY YEARS and I still get excited by road tunnels. There is something intrinsically sexy and glamorous about them. The exotic lights everywhere and the big whirring fans and the speeding cars and trucks making that ripply sound in the dark and you wait for the sign of daylight at the end and then wow the sun and it’s all futuristic

    I hate road tunnels WITHOUT lights. They are just terrifying

    Thanks. Had to get that off my chest

    Freudian.

    You should try S Korea, btw. They have some doozies.
    I really do love them. And yes perhaps it is a sexual thing. You go down to this dark but erotic place with a hint of danger. Like driving turned into cunnilingus

    Too early? Sorry. I’m having a beer in old royal Cetinje in the serious heat
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    I’ve been travelling the world doing this job for almost FORTY YEARS and I still get excited by road tunnels. There is something intrinsically sexy and glamorous about them. The exotic lights everywhere and the big whirring fans and the speeding cars and trucks making that ripply sound in the dark and you wait for the sign of daylight at the end and then wow the sun and it’s all futuristic

    I hate road tunnels WITHOUT lights. They are just terrifying

    Thanks. Had to get that off my chest

    Freudian.

    You should try S Korea, btw. They have some doozies.
    Nothing in this wide world, not the doozies of Korea, the great Alpine tunnels nor the coastal engineering wonders of Italy can hold a candle to the Rotherhithe.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    TimS said:

    How long till Blur re-form just do they can play a series of gigs at £20 a ticket?

    errr Blur released a new album and toured last year.....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    It feels a lot freer to me. You now get all shades of partisan nonsense whereas before anything right wing was brutally censored whereas the most lunatic lefty was allowed to rant

    An awful lot people have right wing opinions. A large minority of people have really strident right wing opinions - cf the success of AfD in Germany this week gone

    TwiX no longer represses the right. That’s all that’s changed, to my mind
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    TimS said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    I’ve been travelling the world doing this job for almost FORTY YEARS and I still get excited by road tunnels. There is something intrinsically sexy and glamorous about them. The exotic lights everywhere and the big whirring fans and the speeding cars and trucks making that ripply sound in the dark and you wait for the sign of daylight at the end and then wow the sun and it’s all futuristic

    I hate road tunnels WITHOUT lights. They are just terrifying

    Thanks. Had to get that off my chest

    Freudian.

    You should try S Korea, btw. They have some doozies.
    Nothing in this wide world, not the doozies of Korea, the great Alpine tunnels nor the coastal engineering wonders of Italy can hold a candle to the Rotherhithe.
    Is that the one built by Brunel? If so yes it’s a wonder. Its a mix of medieval and steampunk
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,406
    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited September 4
    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    It boils down to an argument about queueing.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,114
    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Don't give Tim Martin ideas.
  • Sandpit said:

    algarkirk said:

    Lennon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    Andrew Neil is engaged in some TwiX spats over this

    Someone said this is "monopoly" price gouging, and Neil replied that is not a monopoly. Other gigs are available...

    I don't think Neil is right.

    If you want to see Oasis at Wembley you are not going to be satisfied with Coldplay in Cardiff
    Not really wanting to defend Neil in general, but surely he's right here. As on that logic, everything that's not a pure commodity is a monopoly. Gail's are using monopoly power to price artisanal sourdough bread expensively - I'm not going to be satisfied with Coop sliced white?
    Oasis and their agents are being attacked for bad practice when they could just have sold tickets to the highest bidders and made more money instead of underpricing. The high resale price shows that the market price is higher than Oasis are asking.

    Better bargains elsewhere. Figaro and La Traviata are on at Covent Garden at £12-£200.
    The problem is that your average Oasis fan can’t afford several hundred quid, the band don’t want to give the impression to their fans that they’re pricing the people out, and the venues want to come across as being accessible to all.

    Which is pretty much why the events industry came up with Ticketmaster. They were set up to take the crap away from artists and venues, by keeping all the shady business practices under one branded entity - so the fans are having a go at TM rather than the band or the venue.
    The struggle is real for us average Oasis fans.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    edited September 4
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    The main thing that needs some sort of regulation, and which is a feature of both left and right, is disinformation and lies. Legacy media are accountable for the veracity of statements on their platforms, but social media are not.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,213
    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    It’s interesting how we completely accept this on certain contexts, notably travel and hospitality, but not others.

    We see it happening in real time on flight booking websites.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    edited September 4
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    It’s interesting how we completely accept this on certain contexts, notably travel and hospitality, but not others.

    We see it happening in real time on flight booking websites.
    I was in a pub over Christmas that had dynamic pricing. It is a member of this group: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/stonegate-group-pub-price-increase-london-hikes-b1106660.html
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    I had a Bosnian canoeing guide quizzing me the other day. “Is it true oasis are reforming? Have Liam and Noel made up??”

    Which just goes to show how much interest this is generating. Oasis could and probably should have charged five times as much - but kept some tickets back to be sold on the day at a vastly lower price, and given a fifth away to charities etc

    Thus screwing the touts
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,901
    TimS said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    It’s interesting how we completely accept this on certain contexts, notably travel and hospitality, but not others.

    We see it happening in real time on flight booking websites.
    It's interesting to compare to flying. Overall, over the last three decades, flying has become much less expensive. Even in nominal terms, let alone inflation-adjusted, I'd expect that air fares are lower now than in the early 90s. So that context makes people think they are getting the good end of the deal most of the time on dynamic pricing - the cheap tickets when demand is low, or they can book ahead.

    But for gigs, prices for these have rocketed. Demand is up, and supply is necessarily constrained. So the dynamic pricing acts to increase prices further in a context when people already feel that prices have increased unreasonably - and that's why it's being complained about.
  • Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,037
    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
    Didn't the UK incumbent try and put the price up 3x compared to their previous bid?
    I don't think it was as much as that and the option that was chosen was only very slightly lower, I think it was something to do with all of the tech that was being added to the next generation of passports which warranted the higher contract value. Either way, the government was forced into making a poor choice.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,858

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    I don't think there is a way of doing this online/digitally. The best method depends on what single thing you, the provider, value most.

    If it is money, then very simple price mechanisms, well understood, are the time honoured way of maximising the take.

    If it is gratifying the fan base, you have to do something different. The best choices are: the old fashioned queue in the rain, and a ballot, 2 tickets max in each case.

    The worst way: 4 million people+ touts+bots all logging on at 9 am and then attempting to satisfy the fan base + maximise the take. Guess which one they chose......
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 435
    edited September 4
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,901
    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    The known problem with that approach is that it leads to ticket touts acting as the middleman, so you still have rationing based on price, but the touts take a huge cut.

    If the tickets are sold via an auction mechanism it would greatly lessen the impact of touts, and it would ensure that the people putting on the show benefit in full from the demand for the show - the outcome most likely to lead to an increase in supply.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,089
    algarkirk said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    I don't think there is a way of doing this online/digitally. The best method depends on what single thing you, the provider, value most.

    If it is money, then very simple price mechanisms, well understood, are the time honoured way of maximising the take.

    If it is gratifying the fan base, you have to do something different. The best choices are: the old fashioned queue in the rain, and a ballot, 2 tickets max in each case.

    The worst way: 4 million people+ touts+bots all logging on at 9 am and then attempting to satisfy the fan base + maximise the take. Guess which one they chose......
    There’s also pre-sale sales to fan club members.

    Often limited to those who were member of the relevant fan club before a gig was announced.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    He's a remarkably limited individual.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,894

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    The known problem with that approach is that it leads to ticket touts acting as the middleman, so you still have rationing based on price, but the touts take a huge cut.

    If the tickets are sold via an auction mechanism it would greatly lessen the impact of touts, and it would ensure that the people putting on the show benefit in full from the demand for the show - the outcome most likely to lead to an increase in supply.
    Starting very high and slowly reducing the prices until all tickets are sold seems like the fairest route - avoids touts too. However it does mean that only the rich get to go, and they might not collectively make the best audience.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,269

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    The issue in this specific case is that they set the initial advertised price well below market value, so when it inevitably got bid up, people felt conned. They could have advertised much higher prices to start with, but it would have been bad PR.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    The problem is the price offered at the end of the queue is not the price quoted at the start of the queue

    That is not how queuing works, in general...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    He's a remarkably limited individual.
    A retired accountant who thinks going to Bruges is daring

    His horizons are some of the narrowest I’ve ever encountered. Like meeting someone who can only see nine inches in front of his face - and has no curiosity as to what lies ten inches further on, especially if it might upset him
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    What time do Tory MPs start voting in the first round of the leadership contest?
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    You won't do well to silence me
    With your words or Wagging Tongue
    With your long tall tales of sorrow
    Your song yet to be sung
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
    I must tell that to my bro-in-law. He, seemingly, can go past a menswear shop without buying a shirt, most of which he never wears.
    Personally, I don't understand it. What's more, having been brought up over a pharmacy and later run one for several years I have no desire to go into a shop again.
  • Scott_xP said:

    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    The problem is the price offered at the end of the queue is not the price quoted at the start of the queue

    That is not how queuing works, in general...
    And certainly not when the time lapse between being 1,000 and 40,000 in the queue was measured in fractions of a second…
  • Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
    I must tell that to my bro-in-law. He, seemingly, can go past a menswear shop without buying a shirt, most of which he never wears.
    Personally, I don't understand it. What's more, having been brought up over a pharmacy and later run one for several years I have no desire to go into a shop again.

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
    I must tell that to my bro-in-law. He, seemingly, can go past a menswear shop without buying a shirt, most of which he never wears.
    Personally, I don't understand it. What's more, having been brought up over a pharmacy and later run one for several years I have no desire to go into a shop again.
    Do men swear?
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,672

    Scott_xP said:

    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    The problem is the price offered at the end of the queue is not the price quoted at the start of the queue

    That is not how queuing works, in general...
    And certainly not when the time lapse between being 1,000 and 40,000 in the queue was measured in fractions of a second…
    And so, Sally can wait.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,037
    In random gaming news I think @Casino_Royale is right and we've passed peak woke. Sony unceremoniously shut down a $200m budget game yesterday because it was so poorly received by players due to poor design choices with the characters in the game and that all of the characters (including robots) had pronouns in their profiles.

    I've heard from my old colleagues that management are furious and all games are being put into a review process to dump all of the shite that people are rejecting. You can't lose a big company $200m to push an agenda no one wants and escape consequences.

    Very quietly companies are realising that customers have begun to vote with their wallets. Movies that push the woke agenda are failing, games that do it are failing and after the backlash against Bud Light consumer products companies are rowing it all back. Consumers had enough of being force fed an agenda with everything they watch, play or buy and have adjusted their purchasing habits accordingly, it's taken a few years to get there but we're now at the point where companies can't shove a bunch of nonsense into the products and expect people to just live with it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,089
    More on the X/Starlink/Brazil thing

    Apparently the Judge wanted *Starlink*to cut off service by shutting down payments.

    Rather than by tearing up their license in Brazil. This is because the military are big users - as is the government. Remote schools for example.

    Se he wanted to be able to blame loss of service on the provider.

    Starlink not being turned off, despite non payment of fees, means that the onus for this hasn’t fallen on Starlink, as expected.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
    I must tell that to my bro-in-law. He, seemingly, can go past a menswear shop without buying a shirt, most of which he never wears.
    Personally, I don't understand it. What's more, having been brought up over a pharmacy and later run one for several years I have no desire to go into a shop again.
    My strategy with this particular shop is to not buy anything from them until they've sent me a discount card offering at least 25% off, which they do eventually if you spurn them for long enough. If you also buy in bulk then you get further discounts and that facilitates you ignoring them for a couple of years afterwards. Their profit margin on people who buy at sticker price must be off the scale as presumably they are not selling to me at a loss.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Looks like the result of the first ballot is expected at 3:30pm. I don't know how long they had, probably an hour, given there's only 121 of them.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 620
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...
    People forget what a great stylist Orwell was. And that’s a brilliant example

    Orwell used to write quite lyrically and poetically with lots of metaphors and all that. Then he decided a simple style was much more effective. “Prose should be like a window pane. You shouldn’t see the style - the glass - just the meaning beyond”. His style was not having a style

    And in this passage he does exactly that. It’s so simple yet powerful. Visceral

    “then he was full of holes and the sea around him turned pink”
    75% of asylum applicants who arrived by small boat (who've received a decision) have been granted asylum, 93% apply for asylum, so that's 70%.
    This is only an issue because of a deliberate policy to slow down processing. Which also gives more opportunity for those who aren't genuine asylum seekers to avoid return.
    And small boat arrivals peaked at 45,000 in 2022.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    edited September 4
    I don't have a vote but if I did it would definitely be for Badenoch

    1. She is gap toothed.

    2. She dresses well

    3. Her name is memorable and will remind voters of butterscotch

    4. She looks like a high class divorce lawyer. Just the ticket when facing Sir Keir.

    5. Right wing and ruthless so should scare the pants off Farage
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    Mmm, sure I am. "Dumb as a rock" even like Kamala. Because all the real brainboxes just parrot what they read on Far Right Twitter and don't need to mess about with logic or probabilities or any of that nonsense.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    The final Grenfell report has been released. Live coverage here:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/c623vrw92rrt

    The report is available here:
    https://www.grenfelltowerinquiry.org.uk/phase-2-report

    (No, I haven't read it yet...)

    That's an awful lot of words to say don't put inflammable material on the outside of a building.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,269
    Andy_JS said:

    Looks like the result of the first ballot is expected at 3:30pm. I don't know how long they had, probably an hour, given there's only 121 of them.

    I didn't realise there were that many candidates.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,901
    edited September 4

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    So your problem isn't the absolute price you pay for your ticket, but the price relative to other people?

    Would you be happier if you (and everyone) pays £300, or you pay £200 and everyone else pays £100?
    Pricing behaviour is increasingly complex. I recently bought some shirts from a medium to high end high street gents' clothing store whose sticker price was £75 but which, with various multi buy and other promotions applied, cost me £26 each. If I had known they were also paying £5 for each old shirt I could have got them for £21. This kind of thing makes the job of the ONS very difficult.
    I must tell that to my bro-in-law. He, seemingly, can go past a menswear shop without buying a shirt, most of which he never wears.
    Personally, I don't understand it. What's more, having been brought up over a pharmacy and later run one for several years I have no desire to go into a shop again.
    My strategy with this particular shop is to not buy anything from them until they've sent me a discount card offering at least 25% off, which they do eventually if you spurn them for long enough. If you also buy in bulk then you get further discounts and that facilitates you ignoring them for a couple of years afterwards. Their profit margin on people who buy at sticker price must be off the scale as presumably they are not selling to me at a loss.
    Well, there's the difference between whether they're making a profit on the marginal sale of an individual shirt (not including fixed overhead costs), and whether they're making a profit overall.

    I expect that, if they only sold at the discount price, they might not make enough to cover their overheads, but they're not losing money by selling to you.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    edited September 4
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    Mmm, sure I am. "Dumb as a rock" even like Kamala. Because all the real brainboxes just parrot what they read on Far Right Twitter and don't need to mess about with logic or probabilities or any of that nonsense.
    What’s the *probability* of an especially dangerous novel bat coronavirus emerging in the only city in the world which has a lab taking novel bat coronaviruses and making them especially dangerous? As against it emerging from the market 300 yards from the lab which has never sold bats?

    You didn’t trouble yourself with THAT probability because you’re an idiot

    As I said you’re so stupid you don’t realise how stupid you are. Which is actually quite dangerous

  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    MaxPB said:

    rcs1000 said:

    MaxPB said:

    mercator said:

    Brexit fails Pt 94

    I note that 80% of the text and royal arms has rubbed off the front of my 3 year old blue passport whereas its predecessor is pristine after 10 years hard use. This is not funny, it's the sort of thing you get shaken down for 100 USD for at dodgy border crossings. Fecking useless.

    Isn't that the fault of the EU enforced tender process that obliged the government to pick the cheaper, shittier option from the French/Polish bid rather than the UK incumbent?
    Didn't the UK incumbent try and put the price up 3x compared to their previous bid?
    I don't think it was as much as that and the option that was chosen was only very slightly lower, I think it was something to do with all of the tech that was being added to the next generation of passports which warranted the higher contract value. Either way, the government was forced into making a poor choice.
    I've looked it up, and you are right, it wasn't anywhere near 3x.

    De La Rue, who previously had the contract bid £380m, and Gemalto bid £260m.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    edited September 4
    (See next post with both parts.)
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890
    edited September 4
    MattW said:

    From earlier @Gallowgate.

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On topic ... ish ... my photo quota today is entitled "The Morning After the Conservative Party Leadership Announcement." *


    * I may be lying about the title. Credit Accidental Renaissance Paintings Facebook Group, as previously.

    Would be interesting to hear your thoughts later on the Grenfell Report.
    Reply from earlier @Gallowgate.

    Part 1:

    I've had a bit of a listen to the debate in the Commons, which has generally been very good, and skimmed a report summary. Starmer and Sunak have both been good, but I am probably happy that we have someone who I think (hope!) is a boring, detail man dealing with it.

    The impression I get is that the Report blames everyone, including insulation manufacturers, suppliers, regulators (ie those doing fire tests) builders, local council as I think owners, the management organisation (which included a lot of resident representation on its board), and others. That may not be an easy agenda to address, as it would be easy to throw everything in the air and lose the good parts of our existing system - there are lots of babies that could be thrown out with bathwater. There are lots of angles.

    The messages I am getting are about disaggregation in both manufacturing and building supply chains, and in building management chains, about transparency, about capacity in local authorities and about redress and how to achieve it. I think it highlights that no single measure (eg Tenant Representatives on Boards) will fix it.

    On disaggregation I would draw a parallel with eg highway maintenance and repairs, which is an atomised mess.

    There are implications for ownership, management and tenure, at block owner, lease owner, and occupier eg tenant level. That has implications for whether we want leasehold to continue, but if so how do we make sure that safety is as well managed as it would be by eg the Grosvenor Estate in whatever the new setup is - a joint commonhold for a block of flats will not be as professional (and as safe) if managed by the committee of owners.

    There are similar questions for management of tenancies (iirc Grenfell was caused by an appliance fire), safety of electrical equipment (another reason for addressing eg non type-approval of lithium batteries), and leases.

    Separate issues between new build, and existing, under these headings for buildings, and for when existing are refurbished.

    There are corresponding implications for challenges to that - is the First Tier Tribunal system adequate and for what, or is this another reason for a housing court (as requested by the National Residential Landlords Association, for example).

    One thing that may fall down a gap is attention to quality of buildings. An example is how electrical extension leads are used and causes potential hazard (eg kettle and toaster on a 2 way). That can be reduced by required minimum numbers of sockets.

    Some things I would argue for are perhaps:
    @Gallowgate reply Part 2

    - Building Control Information to be automatically public, as Planning information is currently.
    - It is questionable whether the current setup of testing labs and similar is adequate eg should the Building Research Establishment be privatised. If it is OK being privatised, how should it be supervised, given that the insulation tests were able to be fiddled?
    - Capacity building in Building Control, which has been starved under perhaps both Con and New Lab Governments. This is crucial.
    - Consideration of where regulation should properly sit. I'd argue for a more strategic role for local authorities as the hub, covering the building, management, and LL regulation areas. That will require resource and professionalism amongst staff.
    - Careful thought about the side things I have argued - tenure reform, building management, supply chain, build chain.
    - Conflicts of interest need thought. eg between Local Authority owned or managed or arms-length property vs regulation of such.

    Politically, I think that some of this could be a part of RR's needed justification for increasing capacity in local authorities in order to do things with Council Tax.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,945
    Looks like Priti Patel or Mel Stride will be out first. Interesting to see who the loser endorses.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    It feels like a whole lifetime has gone by and you and Casino are still posting the same stuff If you've been to interesting places and done interesting things why are you posting on a loop?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,503
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    It feels like a whole lifetime has gone by and you and Casino are still posting the same stuff If you've been to interesting places and done interesting things why are you posting on a loop?
    I’m in fucking Montenegro and have been posting about it daily you retired tampon advertising moron
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    edited September 4

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    He's a remarkably limited individual.
    I thought that was a pretty good post I did there. Far Right speech as Pollution. Because it is, isn't it? It stinks the place up. But to be clear, I'm not proposing any extension of our current laws in this area. Free speech, yes. Absolutist and untrammelled, no. There's a balance needed and I think we have it about right.

    "I disagree with what you're saying but I will defend to the death your right to say it - so long as it isn't contravening our laws around inciting hatred and violence."

    Yep.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,701
    Andy_JS said:

    Looks like Priti Patel or Mel Stride will be out first. Interesting to see who the loser endorses.

    Didn't someone .... you .... say 3.30pm. Can't take that long to count 100 or so votes!
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited September 4
    Omnium said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Pulpstar said:

    algarkirk said:

    Hurrah for lawyers, again.

    Oasis fans can sue Ticketmaster over dynamic pricing, say lawyers

    Selling model seeing charges rise with high demand and low supply branded ‘very untransparent system’ that may have breached consumer law


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/03/oasis-fans-sue-ticketmaster-dynamic-pricing-law/

    'Could' and 'may' are the important words here. Of course they can be sued, anyone can sue or be sued. The issue is who would win.

    It would be scandalous if Oasis etc lost. They were selling tickets way below the price they could have got if they started high and went down if any were left unsold at £5,000 (or whatever) a go.
    It's not Oasis being sued here, it's ticketmaster - and high time too. It'd be in everyone's interests if the courts came down on them like a tonne of bricks.
    The whole thing is wonderfully British.

    We're basically having an argument about queueing.
    it's not though.

    If you were in the queue at a bar and the person in front of you was charged less than you for the same pint you would be understandably upset
    Exactly.

    The events industry has come up with a solution to queueing in the context of a mismatch between supply/demand by using price as a dynamic variable - and the great British public ain't happy.

    It's not clear to me what the variable should be to dictate who misses out on getting tickets.

    Some people are going to miss out. Who should it be?

    (I'm not defending Ticketmaster btw, I'm just pointing out there is no perfect solution to what is essentially a queueing problem)
    Still no...

    The answer to the queuing problem is first come, first served. Everybody pays the same price, and when they run out that's it

    Ticketmaster have rationed access to the option to buy tickets by queue, and then rationed ability to purchase by price
    The known problem with that approach is that it leads to ticket touts acting as the middleman, so you still have rationing based on price, but the touts take a huge cut.

    If the tickets are sold via an auction mechanism it would greatly lessen the impact of touts, and it would ensure that the people putting on the show benefit in full from the demand for the show - the outcome most likely to lead to an increase in supply.
    Starting very high and slowly reducing the prices until all tickets are sold seems like the fairest route - avoids touts too. However it does mean that only the rich get to go, and they might not collectively make the best audience.
    That's effectively what happens currently though: the touts have teams of people in Malaysia, and each employee oversees 30 virtual machines with different IP addresses that automatically login at 7:00am.

    They will get 95% of the cheap tickets.

    And that's why bands have presales for people who are members of their various "fan clubs" - to give them a chance to buy tickets before the touts rush in.

    It seems like some variant on that: a presale for the fan club, followed by a reverse auction for 80% of the tickets.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,335
    edited September 4
    MaxPB said:

    In random gaming news I think @Casino_Royale is right and we've passed peak woke. Sony unceremoniously shut down a $200m budget game yesterday because it was so poorly received by players due to poor design choices with the characters in the game and that all of the characters (including robots) had pronouns in their profiles.

    I've heard from my old colleagues that management are furious and all games are being put into a review process to dump all of the shite that people are rejecting. You can't lose a big company $200m to push an agenda no one wants and escape consequences.

    Very quietly companies are realising that customers have begun to vote with their wallets. Movies that push the woke agenda are failing, games that do it are failing and after the backlash against Bud Light consumer products companies are rowing it all back. Consumers had enough of being force fed an agenda with everything they watch, play or buy and have adjusted their purchasing habits accordingly, it's taken a few years to get there but we're now at the point where companies can't shove a bunch of nonsense into the products and expect people to just live with it.

    This is silly. Concord didn’t fail because you could choose the pronouns of your character. It failed because a) it’s a bit shit, b) it tried to charge £40 when the competition is free to play & making their £zillions on charging for hats.

    Sony management are 100% to blame for thinking that they could launch a £40 MOBA in a world where Overwatch and Valorant already exist, have captured the available player base and are free to play.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,890

    Andy_JS said:

    Looks like Priti Patel or Mel Stride will be out first. Interesting to see who the loser endorses.

    Didn't someone .... you .... say 3.30pm. Can't take that long to count 100 or so votes!
    It is just like a Balloon Debate, isn't it !
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    But we assured repeatedly on here by the PB Trump Arse Lickers / Bedwetters that RFK quitting would be good for their man.

    Any sign of this? No.

    As many of us said at the time, it appears to have made sod all difference.

    Funny old world.

    Some people said it would be worth a point or 2 to Trump. You seemed to take extreme exception to this for some reason. Is there any evidence it wasn't worth a point or 2? There's plenty of things that are going to be worth more than a point or 2 to either candidate like a convention bounce, advertising, normal movement as people start paying attention.

    Given how few RFK voters there were by the time he quit it's hard to get good polling, but the little evidence I've seen points towards it being worth a point or 2 to Trump.

    You could equally ask what happened to the massive convention bounce Harris was supposed to get?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    edited September 4
    Phil said:

    MaxPB said:

    In random gaming news I think @Casino_Royale is right and we've passed peak woke. Sony unceremoniously shut down a $200m budget game yesterday because it was so poorly received by players due to poor design choices with the characters in the game and that all of the characters (including robots) had pronouns in their profiles.

    I've heard from my old colleagues that management are furious and all games are being put into a review process to dump all of the shite that people are rejecting. You can't lose a big company $200m to push an agenda no one wants and escape consequences.

    Very quietly companies are realising that customers have begun to vote with their wallets. Movies that push the woke agenda are failing, games that do it are failing and after the backlash against Bud Light consumer products companies are rowing it all back. Consumers had enough of being force fed an agenda with everything they watch, play or buy and have adjusted their purchasing habits accordingly, it's taken a few years to get there but we're now at the point where companies can't shove a bunch of nonsense into the products and expect people to just live with it.

    This is silly. Concord didn’t fail because you could choose the pronouns of your character. It failed because a) it’s a bit shit, b) it tried to charge £40 when the competition is free to play & making their £zillions on charging for hats.

    Sony management are 100% to blame for thinking that they could launch a £40 MOBA in a world where Overwatch and Valorant already exist, have captured the available player base and are free to play.
    The greatest pronoun choosing game ever was South Park, the Stick of Truth about a decade ago.

    It had the most incredible character design process, it introduced me to the concept of cisgender, you could be anything you wanted to be.

    Except, when you got to the end, it made no difference. Irresepective of your name, gender, sexual orientation and the like, you were simply "New kid", and treated like shit, and your pronouns never came into it, as you were only ever insulted by Cartman and co.

  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,632
    Roger said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
    It's not free speech though.

    Posts which call Republicans "wingnuts" are deleted for violating the terms of service on abusive speech.

    Posts which call for violence against refugees or brown people are just fine and aren't taken down.

    It's selective speech. I find it rather telling that you're more comfortable with the current balance of the bias than the previous iteration.
    Well yeah. I’m on the right

    I find it rather telling that you’re more comfortable with the earlier left wing yawn blah fucksake you pompous tiny dicked wanker-of-maggots
    But it isn't really free speech, is it? It's going from one flavor of not free to another.

    It's the hypocrisy that grates with me.
    Just on the pragmatics of this it's better that the right is silenced rather than the left because it's the right who tend to say deeply reprehensible things that make decent people shudder.
    You’re saying this to provoke (and I approve of that, at least it adds spice) but the thing is: you actually believe this, too. You genuinely think a lot of right wing opinion should simply be silenced
    I don't mind people arguing for a small state and saying things like "there's no such thing as a free lunch" (although it's irritating), it's all this other stuff, demonising muslims and migrants and refugees, deep misogyny, white supremacy dog-whistling, promotion of lies and conspiracy theories in the face of science and reason, we really could do without most of that. It's pollution. And the people adding to, fostering and enabling it are not in my view "free speech advocates" they're polluters. They're polluting the town square and making it hard to breath. That's my mental image of it.
    So, you’re still a wanker. Also, quite dumb. You’d have censored the lab leak hypothesis and in your world we’d all be going round worrying about fucking bats in soup instead of properly worrying about the safety of biological research laboratories

    You are literally too stupid to see the danger of your own stupidity
    It feels like a whole lifetime has gone by and you and Casino are still posting the same stuff If you've been to interesting places and done interesting things why are you posting on a loop?
    He's in Montenegro now apparently. Broadening his mind again. It'll need a new head soon at this rate. Getting a bit tight in there.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,608
    Phil said:

    MaxPB said:

    In random gaming news I think @Casino_Royale is right and we've passed peak woke. Sony unceremoniously shut down a $200m budget game yesterday because it was so poorly received by players due to poor design choices with the characters in the game and that all of the characters (including robots) had pronouns in their profiles.

    I've heard from my old colleagues that management are furious and all games are being put into a review process to dump all of the shite that people are rejecting. You can't lose a big company $200m to push an agenda no one wants and escape consequences.

    Very quietly companies are realising that customers have begun to vote with their wallets. Movies that push the woke agenda are failing, games that do it are failing and after the backlash against Bud Light consumer products companies are rowing it all back. Consumers had enough of being force fed an agenda with everything they watch, play or buy and have adjusted their purchasing habits accordingly, it's taken a few years to get there but we're now at the point where companies can't shove a bunch of nonsense into the products and expect people to just live with it.

    This is silly. Concord didn’t fail because you could choose the pronouns of your character. It failed because a) it’s a bit shit, b) it tried to charge £40 when the competition is free to play & making their £zillions on charging for hats.

    Sony management are 100% to blame for thinking that they could launch a £40 MOBA in a world where Overwatch and Valorant already exist, have captured the available player base and are free to play.
    Barbie was a success despite being very woke, because it was a good movie.

    It's almost like people like to watch/play things that are good, and are quite sophisticated at just ignoring the bullshit from culture and woke warriors.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,970
    An interesting chat between two youngish bright Israelis. Discussing what the Israeli people really feel.

    https://x.com/kennardmatt/status/1830985886961385782?s=43&t=a8w_iZEdCb52zK_FrBw3IA
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 39,037
    Phil said:

    MaxPB said:

    In random gaming news I think @Casino_Royale is right and we've passed peak woke. Sony unceremoniously shut down a $200m budget game yesterday because it was so poorly received by players due to poor design choices with the characters in the game and that all of the characters (including robots) had pronouns in their profiles.

    I've heard from my old colleagues that management are furious and all games are being put into a review process to dump all of the shite that people are rejecting. You can't lose a big company $200m to push an agenda no one wants and escape consequences.

    Very quietly companies are realising that customers have begun to vote with their wallets. Movies that push the woke agenda are failing, games that do it are failing and after the backlash against Bud Light consumer products companies are rowing it all back. Consumers had enough of being force fed an agenda with everything they watch, play or buy and have adjusted their purchasing habits accordingly, it's taken a few years to get there but we're now at the point where companies can't shove a bunch of nonsense into the products and expect people to just live with it.

    This is silly. Concord didn’t fail because you could choose the pronouns of your character. It failed because a) it’s a bit shit, b) it tried to charge £40 when the competition is free to play & making their £zillions on charging for hats.

    Sony management are 100% to blame for thinking that they could launch a £40 MOBA in a world where Overwatch and Valorant already exist, have captured the available player base and are free to play.
    Here's the full list of internal blame from an ex-colleague:

    1 - competing with overwatch was a stupid idea
    2 - the cringy guardians of the galaxy setting was 5 years out of date
    3 - the character designs were extremely ugly and in live service games it matters a lot for advertising and cosplaying etc...
    4 - releasing at £40/$40 against established f2p games in the genre was suicidal
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    Depends how accurate people think the polling is.

    In 2020 the polls claimed larger Biden leads in those states than turned out to be the case.

    They also predicted Biden would win Florida and North Carolina:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Florida#Polling
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_North_Carolina#Polling

    and much smaller Trump leads in Iowa, Ohio and Texas:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Iowa#Polling
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Ohio#Polling
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_United_States_presidential_election_in_Texas#Polling

    Now maybe things are different this year and state polls will be more accurate.

    And maybe they will not be.
    Yes but as we saw with Corbyn we don't know which way the polling error will be. I think the Dems outperformed the polls in the midterms iirc..

    So - we know the polls are likely wrong, we don't know which way they'll be wrong. Which means for betting purposes you'll probably have to assume they're correct..
    Dems didn't outperform polls in the midterms
This discussion has been closed.