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So, it begins – politicalbetting.com

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  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042

    kamski said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    A maverick historian no doubt.

    “Very interesting. Worth watching,” wrote fellow maverick Elon Musk. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1830856758505402374

    Ah those fun-loving mavericks
    High status males is I believe the correct term.
    It's unfortunate most of them seem to have the emotional development of a 14 year old.
    High Status Males = Good
    Liberal Elite = Bad
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch is backed by Gove and was introduced by Francis Maude at her launch and also allegedly by Dougie Smith if you believe Nadine Dorries in her book who was also behind Sunak and part of Portillo's old team which switched to Cameron and Osborne.

    The winter fuel story might hit her a bit with members, if she fails to make the top two with Tory MPs today it will have hit her with them too

    Francis Maude's endorsement of Kemi Badenoch in the Telegraph

    "Kemi Badenoch's stardust is the one chance we have to get it right first time" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/03/kemi-badenoch-stardust-one-chance-right-first-time/
    I always saw Maude as a big hitter, someone who knows how things work, a background fixer.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135
    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    18th century smuggling gangs say 'hi'.
    Small coracles with barrels of brandy landing in Prussia Cove in the dark of night cannot really be compared to armies* of young men arriving in broad daylight, directly across the Channel from France

    *And they are armies in size. Possibly 40,000 will come this year, and around 150,000 in total - of which maybe 80-90% are young men. It is insane we allow this and it will 1. Bankrupt us, and 2. Lead to violence, unless it is stopped

    Worth noting that Poland is so alarmed it now allows border guards to shoot live rounds at people attempting to cross from Belarus. That is where we are headed unless we find an alternative

    https://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/58618/poland-allows-police-to-open-fire-on-migrants-at-the-belarusian-border
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    We (ie most Western powers) learned the wrong lessons from WWII, namely that there is virtue in weakness and victimhood.
    We certainly can see this now in the Middle East where there is a hierarchy of victimhood. Israel, conversely, sees, perforce, no virtue in weakness or victimhood.
  • DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    Suppose you are an intellectual impostor with nothing to say, but with strong ambitions to succeed in academic life, collect a coterie of reverent disciples and have students around the world anoint your pages with respectful yellow highlighter. What kind of literary style would you cultivate? Not a lucid one, surely, for clarity would expose your lack of content. The chances are that you would produce something like the following:

    "We can clearly see that there is no bi-univocal correspondence between linear signifying links or archi-writing, depending on the author, and this multireferential, multi-dimensional machinic catalysis. The symmetry of scale, the transversality, the pathic non-discursive character of their expansion: all these dimensions remove us from the logic of the excluded middle and reinforce us in our dismissal of the ontological binarism we criticised previously."


    https://richarddawkins.com/articles/article/postmodernism-disrobed

    To his worshippers Trump is a modern Delphic oracle:

    One of the main stories claimed that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapours rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests interpreted as the enigmatic prophecies and turned them into poetic dactylic hexameters preserved in Greek literature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

    The more incoherent gibberish Trump rolls out the more profound he is deemed to be.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more



  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,544
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    Couldn't stop the Dutch in 1688.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866

    MattW said:

    Good morning everyone.

    On topic ... ish ... my photo quota today is entitled "The Morning After the Conservative Party Leadership Announcement." *



    * I may be lying about the title. Credit Accidental Renaissance Paintings Facebook Group, as previously.

    Would be interesting to hear your thoughts later on the Grenfell Report.
    That's quite a BIG question :smile: .

    Do you mean THE Grenfell report ie all of it, or is there a new aspect of interest, or is it a general question so I identify my own specifics? Happy to do so, and I'll write a couple of paras at coffee break.

    Strangely, my most abiding memory is of a very early longish (12 minute?) interview on the R4 Today programme with an expert who was going to be looking into insulation and what happened (I can't recall the name), and how the presenter spent about half of the interview trying to get a pre-start-of-investigation commitment that X type of insulation would be BANNED.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,042
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more



    tbf Biden did mention the fearless expose by Leon as a big factor in him quitting the race.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    Couldn't stop the Dutch in 1688.
    Or the English in 1645.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    A maverick historian no doubt.

    “Very interesting. Worth watching,” wrote fellow maverick Elon Musk. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1830856758505402374

    Ah those fun-loving mavericks
    High status males is I believe the correct term.
    It's unfortunate most of them seem to have the emotional development of a 14 year old.
    High Status Males = Good
    Liberal Elite = Bad
    Also, the above is very unfair on some 14 year olds.

    A friend had a 14 year old son of another friend babysitting. The clothes dryer caught fire. When he spotted it, he closed the door of the utility room it was in (fire door), and closed the other doors between it and the escape route (also fire doors), as he moved through the house. He got the 9 and 12 year old he was looking after and got them out. Then called 999. Then called the parents. Then called his parents. Then called the pizza delivery outfit that was delivering diner to advise them.

    The parents rocked up to discover their children sitting across the street, with the neighbours, eating pizza and watching the show.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    Couldn't stop the Dutch in 1688.
    Positively welcomed the Irish in the 1850s. Of course they needed a bit of feeding up after a naturally occurring famine that no one could have done anything about, oh no, certainly not.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470
    edited September 4
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more



    He knows he's going to be in an orange jump suit soon unless he wins and so the stress and desperation must be massive.

  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    Go Kemi!!!
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    kamski said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more



    tbf Biden did mention the fearless expose by Leon as a big factor in him quitting the race.
    I know you’re joking but I have heard from “contacts” in the US Admin that this is actually true. Apparently Biden used to read PB every night because all of the comments not by me helped him sleep

    But of course there was always the risk he’d read one of mine - and become alarmed. And so it was. It was one of my post debate rants that finally demoralised him into resigning
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    Sean_F said:

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    I think their line of argument is that they were liberating Eastern Poland and the Baltic States.
    Yes, in the same way Russia are now trying to 'liberate' Ukraine. The fact they did so in unison with fascist Germany is, of course, irrelevant to them.

    It's bull, and the people who say it need to be pointed and laughed at.
    In addition, it was incredibly stupid. For the Soviet Union.

    Attacked on both sides, Poland took 5 weeks to conquer.

    So, if Poland had remained as a buffer state between Germany and the Soviet Union, it would have taken *months* for the Nazis to get to the SU border, when they attacked.

    Rather than minutes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,003
    In ConHome's Tory members survey result this morning, Badenoch retains a clear lead.

    Badenoch 34%, Jenrick 18%, Tugendhat 13%, Cleverly 11%, Patel 7%, Stride 2%.

    Head to head Badenoch beats all comers: Badenoch 51% Jenrick 34%, Badenoch 61% Tugendhat 28%, Badenoch 57% Cleverly 27%, Badenoch 65% Patel 21%, Badenoch 69% Stride 16%.

    Jenrick beats all candidates except Badenoch otherwise. Jenrick 48% Cleverly 36%, Jenrick 52% Tugendhat 31%, Jenrick 58% Patel 23%, Jenrick 61% Stride 20%


    https://conservativehome.com/2024/09/04/our-survey-badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-the-leadership-race-and-defeats-all-comers-in-the-final-round/
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    edited September 4
    Yesterday I noted how no one was on guard at Wellington Barracks with rifles to stop the black-clad e-bike riding thugs. They obviously read PB because this was the sight there this morning.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    With all the doom forecasting on here (and no doubt everywhere) about what might appear in October it's job done for Lab's expectation management when it turns out you will only have to sell one kidney to pay for basic food and energy rather than the two.

    Yesterday I noted how no one was on guard at Wellington Barracks with rifles to stop the black-clad e-bike riding thugs. They obviously read PB because this was the sight there this morning.


    HESH vs eBike.....
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,969
    edited September 4
    HYUFD said:

    In ConHome's Tory members survey result this morning, Badenoch retains a clear lead.

    Badenoch 34%, Jenrick 18%, Tugendhat 13%, Cleverly 11%, Patel 7%, Stride 2%.

    Head to head Badenoch beats all comers: Badenoch 51% Jenrick 34%, Badenoch 61% Tugendhat 28%, Badenoch 57% Cleverly 27%, Badenoch 65% Patel 21%, Badenoch 69% Stride 16%.

    Jenrick beats all candidates except Badenoch otherwise. Jenrick 48% Cleverly 36%, Jenrick 52% Tugendhat 31%, Jenrick 58% Patel 23%, Jenrick 61% Stride 20%


    https://conservativehome.com/2024/09/04/our-survey-badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-the-leadership-race-and-defeats-all-comers-in-the-final-round/

    But, but, but Tory members are so old and racist. They would never elect a black woman as their leader!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Nowhere near as expert as others on here but did read a Japanese sourced claim that the planners pretty much knew they were doomed but thought preemptive strike was their best chance given the American blockade on Japan was intolerable.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    In ConHome's Tory members survey result this morning, Badenoch retains a clear lead.

    Badenoch 34%, Jenrick 18%, Tugendhat 13%, Cleverly 11%, Patel 7%, Stride 2%.

    Head to head Badenoch beats all comers: Badenoch 51% Jenrick 34%, Badenoch 61% Tugendhat 28%, Badenoch 57% Cleverly 27%, Badenoch 65% Patel 21%, Badenoch 69% Stride 16%.

    Jenrick beats all candidates except Badenoch otherwise. Jenrick 48% Cleverly 36%, Jenrick 52% Tugendhat 31%, Jenrick 58% Patel 23%, Jenrick 61% Stride 20%


    https://conservativehome.com/2024/09/04/our-survey-badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-the-leadership-race-and-defeats-all-comers-in-the-final-round/

    But, but, but Tory members are so old and racist they would never elect a black woman as their leader!
    Badenoch is actually an elderly white man. Do keep up.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited September 4

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...
    People forget what a great stylist Orwell was. And that’s a brilliant example

    Orwell used to write quite lyrically and poetically with lots of metaphors and all that. Then he decided a simple style was much more effective. “Prose should be like a window pane. You shouldn’t see the style - the glass - just the meaning beyond”. His style was not having a style

    And in this passage he does exactly that. It’s so simple yet powerful. Visceral

    “then he was full of holes and the sea around him turned pink”
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more



    He knows he's going to be in an orange jump suit soon unless he wins and so the stress and desperation must be massive.

    He doesn't run in 2028 either way - are the Dems vindictive enough to keep up the lawfare when he's no longer a threat?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more

    Some almost Trump level bollocks there.
    Though slightly less rambling.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Nowhere near as expert as others on here but did read a Japanese sourced claim that the planners pretty much knew they were doomed but thought preemptive strike was their best chance given the American blockade on Japan was intolerable.
    "I can run wild for six months... after that, I have no expectation of success" - commonly attributed to Isoroku Yamamoto. Who'd lived and studied in the US.

    Such opinions resulted in him being sent to sea for long periods, pre war. Because his peers were worried that the ultras in the Army would try and murder him.

    As to why they went to war, read the Hagakure. Fuckwit fanaticism, where rejecting reality and launching a doomed charge is The Way, essentially.

    There was no blockade of Japan. America and a growing list of countries refused to sell weapons and materials for weapons to arm Japan. Because Japan was trying to conquer China and was openly advocating war with America and pretty much everyone else.

    Threaten to kill people and they stop wanting to do business with you. Funny that.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more

    Some almost Trump level bollocks there.
    Though slightly less rambling.
    You were one of the worst. You denied Biden had a problem of any kind right up to the day he surrendered
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,503
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...
    People forget what a great stylist Orwell was. And that’s a brilliant example

    Orwell used to write quite lyrically and poetically with lots of metaphors and all that. Then he decided a simple style was much more effective. “Prose should be like a window pane. You shouldn’t see the style - the glass - just the meaning beyond”. His style was not having a style

    And in this passage he does exactly that. It’s so simple yet powerful. Visceral

    “then he was full of holes and the sea around him turned pink”
    I feel this is a moment for the adage beloved of Muskovites and similar, that 1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more

    Some almost Trump level bollocks there.
    Though slightly less rambling.
    You were one of the worst. You denied Biden had a problem of any kind right up to the day he surrendered
    Give it a rest.
    You're the pillock that claimed he was dead.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    I’d also like to know how this country has gone from being the greatest empire on earth, with an “immense Pacific fleet” and a million men under arms in the Far East, to being so spineless and craven we cannot even defend the English Channel AND ALL WITHIN LIVING MEMORY

    It must be the greatest and fastest decline in human history?
    The Royal Navy, at its zenith was unable to stop small boats crossing the channel.

    Not just brandy and tobacco. Read up on the death-or-money boats.
    I think the England of 1600-1950 would have found a way to stop tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook, from simply walking in to our country, via the beach, every year
    If you are ok with killing them, then stopping them is trivial.

    A single helicopter with a light cannon could destroy all of them. To keep one on station, you’d need a total of 4, probably. One in maintenance, one getting ready, one in transit, one on station.

    You’d just leave the survivors to drown. No need to go all Imperial Japanese Navy and murder them.

    There is a slight flaw in the above. I wonder if you spot what that is?
    You’re still putting full stops at the end of sentences?

    Last night to the flicks. All war films. One very good
    one of a ship full of refugees being bombed somewhere in the Mediterranean.
    Audience much amused by shots of a great huge fat man trying to swim away
    with a helicopter after him, first you saw him wallowing along in the
    water like a porpoise, then you saw him through the helicopters gunsights,
    then he was full of holes and the sea round him turned pink and he sank as
    suddenly as though the holes had let in the water, audience shouting with
    laughter when he sank. then you saw a lifeboat full of children with a
    helicopter hovering over it. there was a middle-aged woman might have been
    a jewess sitting up in the bow with a little boy about three years old in
    her arms. little boy screaming with fright and hiding his head between her
    breasts as if he was trying to burrow right into her and the woman putting
    her arms round him and comforting him although she was blue with fright
    herself, all the time covering him up as much as possible as if she thought
    her arms could keep the bullets off him. then the helicopter planted a 20
    kilo bomb in among them terrific flash and the boat went all to matchwood.
    then there was a wonderful shot of a child's arm going up up up right up
    into the air a helicopter with a camera in its nose must have followed it
    up and there was a lot of applause from the party seats...
    People forget what a great stylist Orwell was. And that’s a brilliant example

    Orwell used to write quite lyrically and poetically with lots of metaphors and all that. Then he decided a simple style was much more effective. “Prose should be like a window pane. You shouldn’t see the style - the glass - just the meaning beyond”. His style was not having a style

    And in this passage he does exactly that. It’s so simple yet powerful. Visceral

    “then he was full of holes and the sea around him turned pink”
    I feel this is a moment for the adage beloved of Muskovites and similar, that 1984 was a warning not an instruction manual.

    That quote about 1984 being a warning not an instruction manual has a long long history.

    And given the phenomenon of, for example, the insane ideas the Home Office put on the desk of the Home Sec after “major incidents”, one worth considering.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    DavidL said:

    A verbatim transcript from Trump's latest speech in Michigan. I think it starts with a criticism of Harris, hard to tell, but then?

    "She destroyed the city of San Francisco, it’s — and I own a big building there — it’s no — I shouldn’t talk about this but that’s OK I don’t give a damn because this is what I’m doing. I should say it’s the finest city in the world — sell and get the hell out of there, right? But I can’t do that. I don’t care, you know? I lost billions of dollars, billions of dollars. You know, somebody said, ‘What do you think you lost?’ I said, ‘Probably two, three billion. That’s OK, I don’t care.’ They say, ‘You think you’d do it again?’ And that’s the least of it. Nobody. They always say, I don’t know if you know. Lincoln was horribly treated. Uh, Jefferson was pretty horribly. Andrew Jackson they say was the worst of all, that he was treated worse than any other president. I said, ‘Do that study again, because I think there’s nobody close to Trump.’ I even got shot! And who the hell knows where that came from, right?"

    What the hell is he talking about?

    it’s gibberish, clearly, but is it any worse than his usual drivel?

    He’s always done this stream of consciousness shtick, and sometimes he will suddenly be funny and sharp in the middle of it. Quite odd

    However he is 78 and a bit panicked and he recently nearly died of a bullet to the head, so some cognitive decline might be expected
    There was a different Leon who used to post on here a few months ago. He would go all in on dementia at the merest sign of gibberish from an elderly US politician.
    Biden was very clearly demented two years ago. Which I noted and others scoffed - and here we are, he’s had to bow out because I was right

    I am now noting signs of decline in Trump, even tho he has always talked bollocks. The bollocks has got worse and more chaotic, and he now has this desperate frightened look about him. He’s not got it in him, any more

    Some almost Trump level bollocks there.
    Though slightly less rambling.
    You were one of the worst. You denied Biden had a problem of any kind right up to the day he surrendered
    Also, completely wrong.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Transcribed unscripted speech always looks bonkers. Get your phone to record you in the pub and then transcribe you if you doubt this. Yes trump is bonkers and yes this is evidence of that but not strong evidence (and Kamala without an autocue isn't great either).

    Six sleeps till debate day.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,757
    Spy agency monitoring signs of N. Korea executing officials over flood damage
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/09/103_381884.html
    South Korea's spy agency said Wednesday it is closely monitoring signs of North Korea executing multiple officials to hold them accountable over heavy flood damage earlier this year.

    At an emergency party politburo meeting in late July, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he will punish officials for the damage from heavy rains that flooded areas in the northern provinces of Jagang and North Phyongan and displaced thousands.

    The National Intelligence Service said it is closely monitoring the situation after detecting signs of the executions.

    Kang Pong-hun, the former chief secretary of the Jagang Provincial Committee of the North's ruling party, is believed to be possibly among the executed officials.

    Kang and other senior officials, including Public Security Minister Ri Thae-sop, were dismissed from their posts over the flood damage during the politburo meeting, according to the North's state media..
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358

    To his worshippers Trump is a modern Delphic oracle:

    One of the main stories claimed that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapours rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests interpreted as the enigmatic prophecies and turned them into poetic dactylic hexameters preserved in Greek literature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

    The more incoherent gibberish Trump rolls out the more profound he is deemed to be.

    I saw a TwiX post yesterday that claims Trump has a 3rd grade intellect and vocabulary, and appeals to voters with a similar level of intellect
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196
    Nigelb said:

    Spy agency monitoring signs of N. Korea executing officials over flood damage
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/09/103_381884.html
    South Korea's spy agency said Wednesday it is closely monitoring signs of North Korea executing multiple officials to hold them accountable over heavy flood damage earlier this year.

    At an emergency party politburo meeting in late July, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he will punish officials for the damage from heavy rains that flooded areas in the northern provinces of Jagang and North Phyongan and displaced thousands.

    The National Intelligence Service said it is closely monitoring the situation after detecting signs of the executions.

    Kang Pong-hun, the former chief secretary of the Jagang Provincial Committee of the North's ruling party, is believed to be possibly among the executed officials.

    Kang and other senior officials, including Public Security Minister Ri Thae-sop, were dismissed from their posts over the flood damage during the politburo meeting, according to the North's state media..

    I mean, it would be one approach to solving the problems at Thames Water...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,517
    edited September 4
    Ugh, this is why I hate socialists, always pulling up the ladder behind them.

    How dare the plebs own their own homes.

    Angela Rayner is preparing to rip up Margaret Thatcher’s Right to Buy policy despite previously benefiting from the scheme herself.

    The housing secretary is considering abolishing the scheme for newly built council houses and cutting the discount offered to existing tenants.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/angela-rayner-abolish-right-to-buy-pocketing-49k-scheme/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    TOPPING said:

    Yesterday I noted how no one was on guard at Wellington Barracks with rifles to stop the black-clad e-bike riding thugs. They obviously read PB because this was the sight there this morning.


    That Longbow fire control radar must be really useful if Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar turn up in SW1.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420

    Nigelb said:

    Spy agency monitoring signs of N. Korea executing officials over flood damage
    https://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/nation/2024/09/103_381884.html
    South Korea's spy agency said Wednesday it is closely monitoring signs of North Korea executing multiple officials to hold them accountable over heavy flood damage earlier this year.

    At an emergency party politburo meeting in late July, North Korean leader Kim Jong-un said he will punish officials for the damage from heavy rains that flooded areas in the northern provinces of Jagang and North Phyongan and displaced thousands.

    The National Intelligence Service said it is closely monitoring the situation after detecting signs of the executions.

    Kang Pong-hun, the former chief secretary of the Jagang Provincial Committee of the North's ruling party, is believed to be possibly among the executed officials.

    Kang and other senior officials, including Public Security Minister Ri Thae-sop, were dismissed from their posts over the flood damage during the politburo meeting, according to the North's state media..

    I mean, it would be one approach to solving the problems at Thames Water...
    It would just be stamping in a puddle.....
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    Scott_xP said:

    To his worshippers Trump is a modern Delphic oracle:

    One of the main stories claimed that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapours rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests interpreted as the enigmatic prophecies and turned them into poetic dactylic hexameters preserved in Greek literature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

    The more incoherent gibberish Trump rolls out the more profound he is deemed to be.

    I saw a TwiX post yesterday that claims Trump has a 3rd grade intellect and vocabulary, and appeals to voters with a similar level of intellect
    Did it strike you as credible?
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,135

    Scott_xP said:

    To his worshippers Trump is a modern Delphic oracle:

    One of the main stories claimed that the Pythia delivered oracles in a frenzied state induced by vapours rising from a chasm in the rock, and that she spoke gibberish which priests interpreted as the enigmatic prophecies and turned them into poetic dactylic hexameters preserved in Greek literature.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pythia

    The more incoherent gibberish Trump rolls out the more profound he is deemed to be.

    I saw a TwiX post yesterday that claims Trump has a 3rd grade intellect and vocabulary, and appeals to voters with a similar level of intellect
    Did it strike you as credible?
    I mean its a tough one, has the standard of 3rd grade dropped a bit recently? If so then, yes credible.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    edited September 4
    HYUFD said:

    In ConHome's Tory members survey result this morning, Badenoch retains a clear lead.

    Badenoch 34%, Jenrick 18%, Tugendhat 13%, Cleverly 11%, Patel 7%, Stride 2%.


    It's going to be Kemi and we'd all better used to her particular brand of C-Tier culture wars crap. Just don't stand too close on a sunny day or you'll start to smoulder if the sun hits her giglamps at the right angle.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    I didn't get this until I did read the link - millions DID end up dead in concentration camps.

    But he's using it to avoid talking about extermination camps and the Holocaust.

    He also talks about 'Churchill bombing civilians' (no mention of the USAF and Japanese cities), nor does he explain how Churchill caused Japan to attack the USA.

    And he very much minimises Hitler's doings. Apparently a lot of the Russian POW deaths were because Hitler had planned for catching so may prisoners.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 954

    Jenrick seems to be being supported by a higher number of whacko tory MPs than the others.

    So he has no competition, then?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Was Churchill involved in getting the Yanks involved in WW1 as well? The Zimmerman Telegram that we intercepted then arranged to have hit the US Press, and all that?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,962
    edited September 4
    GIN1138 said:

    Go Kemi!!!

    Badenoch might make a good Leader of the Opposition. The clue's in the job title, she's good at opposing. She also has moments of plausible insight - I actually think she was right in the first place about WFP for all her dissembling about it afterwards.

    I suspect she won't get the Conservative Party to where it's needs to go. She doesn't have a good track record of running things and delivery partly because she needlessly annoys people but mainly because I think she's lazy. I would say the main job of a leader of a defeated party that was in government for a long period of time is to rally the troops, move on from their old assumptions and get people behind a renewed common purpose. That doesn't look like Kemi Badenoch.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,731
    edited September 4

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    Between Sept 1939 and June 1941 the Soviets were not at war, apart from the Winter War with Finland.

    It's why I say that the start date of WW2 varies with whom you speak to.

    Probably the Marco Polo bridge incident of 1937 is most accurate.

    If you date the start of WW2 to 1941 then Churchills persuasion that Germany should be the first enemy could be argued by an American isolationist (particularly a pro-Nazi isolationist) to be the villain. Neo-Nazis like Leon's "leftie friend" supporting AfD might also agree.
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    My Economics teacher was in the Australian navy during the war. When the war ended, his ship passed Pacific islands with vast quantities of USA vehicles just left there - tractors, bulldozers, lorries, jeeps etc.
    When he asked why were they just being left there, he was told it would harm the USA manufacturing industry too much to take them back for re-use.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    Yes - lots of politics too. The USN wanted to keep us away from the Japanese mainland because of their "end other people's Empires in our patch" agenda, and there was shenanigans such as Macarthur (iirc) forcing the UK to delay reoccupation of Singapore by several weeks so he could do Japan first - with consequences for people in Singapore.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    edited September 4
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Was Churchill involved in getting the Yanks involved in WW1 as well? The Zimmerman Telegram that we intercepted then arranged to have hit the US Press, and all that?
    He gave the nod to releasing it.

    The plan - which included giving the Americans the code breaks and everything else that proved it was authentic beyond doubt, was down to "Blinker" Hall.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,507
    Dura_Ace said:

    TOPPING said:

    Yesterday I noted how no one was on guard at Wellington Barracks with rifles to stop the black-clad e-bike riding thugs. They obviously read PB because this was the sight there this morning.


    That Longbow fire control radar must be really useful if Jaish al-Muhajireen wal-Ansar turn up in SW1.
    Presumably they get some guardsmen to run over to it, lift it up, and swivel it to track the baddies as they head towards the Palace (or Parliament, I suppose).
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,516

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    My Economics teacher was in the Australian navy during the war. When the war ended, his ship passed Pacific islands with vast quantities of USA vehicles just left there - tractors, bulldozers, lorries, jeeps etc.
    When he asked why were they just being left there, he was told it would harm the USA manufacturing industry too much to take them back for re-use.
    I think hassle is the main reason. My friend's father was a fighter pilot in the Far East. When they left, they smashed the controls on the planes and just abandoned them. It seems a criminal waste.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,705
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch is backed by Gove and was introduced by Francis Maude at her launch and also allegedly by Dougie Smith if you believe Nadine Dorries in her book who was also behind Sunak and part of Portillo's old team which switched to Cameron and Osborne.

    The winter fuel story might hit her a bit with members, if she fails to make the top two with Tory MPs today it will have hit her with them too

    Badenoch will, I fear, be a weak leader. She’s basically Davos woman but with an anti-woke agenda

    I like her but she is insubstantial and globalist, she is also too young. Perhaps with another decade she will be more interesting

    Out of a poor selection, probably Jenrick is the best, but I’m not overly hopeful

    Meanwhile Reform is mainly gammons and Farage is the only star, and he’s over 60

    It’s a damn shame as this Labour govt is risibly poor, already, and a good right wing opposition could mince them


    What about Cleverly? My other half who doesnt take much interest in politics (though a party member) likes him, she says he has a kind face.
    He’s OK but he’s very *continuity Sunak* and he’s rich and complacent

    The Tories need someone with FIRE. someone that hates the Left and the Wokeness, but also exudes charm and plausibility. There are such people elsewhere in the world, Britain seems unusually bereft. I imagine one will emerge in time, but it may be too late by then
    Nigel?....I'll get my coat...
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    edited September 4

    Sean_F said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    I only found out recently that the Royal Navy took part in the Battle of Okinawa. In fact, by the end of the war, the British Pacific Fleet was immense. Over a million British, Empire and Commonwealth soldiers were set to invade Japan.
    I'd like to read more about it, it's been hardly written about.
    It's adjacent not about Okinawa, but Mark Felton has a 1 hr video on his second channel ("War Stories") about Operation Zipper, which is concerning British efforts to invade Malaya and reoccupy Singapore.

    Lots of other good audiobook type stuff on there.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kobikj5Rq9A
  • Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Yes, the basic problem with Japan was getting them to admit they had lost the war even after the almost complete destruction of their army, navy and air force, and blockade of the islands and consequent starvation of the populace.
  • DopermeanDopermean Posts: 269
    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch is backed by Gove and was introduced by Francis Maude at her launch and also allegedly by Dougie Smith if you believe Nadine Dorries in her book who was also behind Sunak and part of Portillo's old team which switched to Cameron and Osborne.

    The winter fuel story might hit her a bit with members, if she fails to make the top two with Tory MPs today it will have hit her with them too

    Francis Maude's endorsement of Kemi Badenoch in the Telegraph

    "Kemi Badenoch's stardust is the one chance we have to get it right first time" https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/08/03/kemi-badenoch-stardust-one-chance-right-first-time/
    I always saw Maude as a big hitter, someone who knows how things work, a background fixer.
    Maude is a serial plotter and Cambridge-educated lawyer.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240

    Some editors may be confused by Leon's reference to "tens of thousands of fighting age young men, often quite hostile in outlook". It's a US import. This language comes from MAGA supporters talking about the US/Mexico border. They can't talk about "young men". No, it has to be the scarier "fighting age young men". That most people are generally fleeing conflict or poverty also doesn't sound threatening enough. Thus, the claim they are "hostile in outlook".

    Try the BBC3 doc "America's New Female Right": https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m0022mrd/americas-new-female-right A lot of that is about young, female, MAGA influencers going on about the evils of feminism, but one of the interviewees is a middle-aged woman called Christine who describes how God (literally) spoke to her and told her to go to the border. She uses the same language as Leon offers here.

    The links to the post-Southport riots are obvious. The misinformation that the attacker was a Muslim illegal immigrant fits right in with this framing that people coming into the country are "hostile in outlook". Compare also the new far right conspiracy theory that Muslims are conspiring to burn down French churches. Or compare the language of the AfD. It's all part of the same fascist patter to cast immigrants/Muslims as an enemy within our society, just as the Nazis sought to portray the Jews in Germany.

    What a load of effete, snivelling dribble

    One of the reasons the boat people are not popular is precisely because they are generally young fighting age men. If they were families with kids then British people would be much more relaxed - if still annoyed by the cost - about housing them in their locales: because families with kids tend not to cause trouble

    Large groups of single young men in one hotel, village, suburb? Yes, that’s gonna be trouble. This is indisputably true

    The fact you try to deny this by arguing I am speaking some Trumpite lies shows how diseased you are
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,676

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Was it not millions?
  • New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

  • Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    You are siding with the president of Brazil who ordered X to try and close the accounts of his political opponents? Is Musk Derangement Syndrome officially a thing?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    Phil said:

    Ugh, this is why I hate socialists, always pulling up the ladder behind them.

    How dare the plebs own their own homes.

    Angela Rayner is preparing to rip up Margaret Thatcher’s Right to Buy policy despite previously benefiting from the scheme herself.

    The housing secretary is considering abolishing the scheme for newly built council houses and cutting the discount offered to existing tenants.


    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/property/angela-rayner-abolish-right-to-buy-pocketing-49k-scheme/

    Right to buy is fine. Right to buy with a massive discount on the market value of the property when you’ve already been paying less than market rent for years is simply a massive transfer of wealth to the few people fortunate enough to get to the front of the queue for council housing.

    It also contributes to the housing shortage: why should councils put effort into building more council housing if it’s going to be compulsorily purchased from them three years down the line & sold on at a profit?
    Restriction of tenure on new Council Houses to exclude RTB is fine for me.

    I'd want to limit the building of huge Council or Social estates however, and have them either pepperpotted or limited to street-size chunks in new developments.

    That already tends to happen on developments where social housing is a quota or part of an S106.

    There are exceptions of course, as ever.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    For @bondegezou and anyone else with a sub-polar-temperature IQ

    “85% of Channel crossing migrants are men, and just 16% are aged below 18”

    https://www.migrationwatchuk.org/channel-migrant-map
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    GIN1138 said:

    HYUFD said:

    In ConHome's Tory members survey result this morning, Badenoch retains a clear lead.

    Badenoch 34%, Jenrick 18%, Tugendhat 13%, Cleverly 11%, Patel 7%, Stride 2%.

    Head to head Badenoch beats all comers: Badenoch 51% Jenrick 34%, Badenoch 61% Tugendhat 28%, Badenoch 57% Cleverly 27%, Badenoch 65% Patel 21%, Badenoch 69% Stride 16%.

    Jenrick beats all candidates except Badenoch otherwise. Jenrick 48% Cleverly 36%, Jenrick 52% Tugendhat 31%, Jenrick 58% Patel 23%, Jenrick 61% Stride 20%


    https://conservativehome.com/2024/09/04/our-survey-badenoch-maintains-her-lead-in-the-leadership-race-and-defeats-all-comers-in-the-final-round/

    But, but, but Tory members are so old and racist. They would never elect a black woman as their leader!
    It's worth remembering that Con Home readers are a skewed sample, and may not even be Tories.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
  • Foxy said:

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    Between Sept 1939 and June 1941 the Soviets were not at war, apart from the Winter War with Finland.
    Apart from the invasions of Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. And apart from the occupation of Moldova (then part of Romania's Bessarabia).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Was it not millions?
    I hope, Luckyguy, this is you being naive, rather than you siding with a Holocaust denier. Cooper phrases what happened as "millions of people ended up dead" to downplay that they were deliberately killed by the Nazis. Cooper is arguing that the millions dead was an unintended side-effect of their incarceration in camps, rather than intended genocide.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    mercator said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
    The wild west free marketeers have a slight problem arguing that in a country that dealt with Standard Oil more than a century ago.

    But perhaps it satellites weren't in the text of the Constitution (excluding the bits they are ignoring), so regulatory capture is OK :smile: .
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 50,605
    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    Are you suggesting that the previous owner would have banned his account?
  • TresTres Posts: 2,648
    kamski said:

    kamski said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    A maverick historian no doubt.

    “Very interesting. Worth watching,” wrote fellow maverick Elon Musk. https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1830856758505402374

    Ah those fun-loving mavericks
    High status males is I believe the correct term.
    It's unfortunate most of them seem to have the emotional development of a 14 year old.
    High Status Males = Good
    Liberal Elite = Bad
    Christ, Grimes really broke Musk's mind didn't she?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    Foxy said:

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    Between Sept 1939 and June 1941 the Soviets were not at war, apart from the Winter War with Finland.

    (Snip)
    That's the sort of bull I'm talking about.

    Firstly, why do you not count the Winter War? It's a bit odd saying that Russia was not at war for 21 months, when you discount a very bad war they had for... reasons. It's just another way of excusing Russia for its actions, and to cover-up the evils they did to Poland.

    Secondly, Russia's invasion of Poland was very much part of the Second World War, and for the reasons @Malmesbury gave above, a vital part of it. The fact they did nto follow-up (aside from the Winter War...) for a while does not suddenly mean they're not part of the war, even if war is undeclared.

    Thirdly, Stalin knew war was coming. Russia was trying to rebuild after the purges and the losses in the Winter War; it is not as though they were building for peace.

    Russia joined the Second World War when it invaded Poland, in conjunction with the fascists. I'm always amused when people try to hand-wave away the Russian invasion of Poland, as it just shows them to be subject to Russian propaganda that makes Russia the victim, not the perpetrator.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,040

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Yes, the basic problem with Japan was getting them to admit they had lost the war even after the almost complete destruction of their army, navy and air force, and blockade of the islands and consequent starvation of the populace.
    Morning. everybody.

    I think I've posted this before, but anyway. Some years ago we went to the cemetery at the "Bridge over the River Kwai' in Thailand, and, after viewing the heartbreaking cemetery, we had lecture by an Australian (sounded like that anyway) historian who opined that the American policy post WWI of treating the N.Pacific as an American lake had effectively destroyed the previously good relationship between the British and the Japanese, resulting in the Japanese attacking British possessions in the Far East.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196

    Foxy said:

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    Between Sept 1939 and June 1941 the Soviets were not at war, apart from the Winter War with Finland.

    (Snip)
    That's the sort of bull I'm talking about.

    Firstly, why do you not count the Winter War? It's a bit odd saying that Russia was not at war for 21 months, when you discount a very bad war they had for... reasons. It's just another way of excusing Russia for its actions, and to cover-up the evils they did to Poland.

    Secondly, Russia's invasion of Poland was very much part of the Second World War, and for the reasons @Malmesbury gave above, a vital part of it. The fact they did nto follow-up (aside from the Winter War...) for a while does not suddenly mean they're not part of the war, even if war is undeclared.

    Thirdly, Stalin knew war was coming. Russia was trying to rebuild after the purges and the losses in the Winter War; it is not as though they were building for peace.

    Russia joined the Second World War when it invaded Poland, in conjunction with the fascists. I'm always amused when people try to hand-wave away the Russian invasion of Poland, as it just shows them to be subject to Russian propaganda that makes Russia the victim, not the perpetrator.
    A lesser known part of history is the partisan resistance in the Baltics to Soviet occupation slightly later in the War: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_war_in_the_Baltic_states
  • Foxy said:

    mwadams said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Depends whether a war needs to be declared or not for Russia. They invaded Poland on 17th September 1939.
    'The second world war started with Barabarossa' is a leftist piece of b/s beloved by Russians and their supporters. As you say, Russia's involvement with the war started in 1939 with their Polish invasion. Something, apparently, Russians don't like to talk about much - as they were working with the fascists they now hate.
    Between Sept 1939 and June 1941 the Soviets were not at war, apart from the Winter War with Finland.

    (Snip)
    That's the sort of bull I'm talking about.

    Firstly, why do you not count the Winter War? It's a bit odd saying that Russia was not at war for 21 months, when you discount a very bad war they had for... reasons. It's just another way of excusing Russia for its actions, and to cover-up the evils they did to Poland.

    Secondly, Russia's invasion of Poland was very much part of the Second World War, and for the reasons @Malmesbury gave above, a vital part of it. The fact they did nto follow-up (aside from the Winter War...) for a while does not suddenly mean they're not part of the war, even if war is undeclared.

    Thirdly, Stalin knew war was coming. Russia was trying to rebuild after the purges and the losses in the Winter War; it is not as though they were building for peace.

    Russia joined the Second World War when it invaded Poland, in conjunction with the fascists. I'm always amused when people try to hand-wave away the Russian invasion of Poland, as it just shows them to be subject to Russian propaganda that makes Russia the victim, not the perpetrator.
    Don't forget the 1940 invasions/occupations of Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, as well as Romania's Bessarabia (today mostly part of Moldova).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Was it not millions?
    I think 'ended up dead' is the problem. They did not just end up dead; they were murdered, killed, butchered, on an industrial scale.

    'ended up dead' could be used to say anything killed them, from old age, disease; even allied action. It's just weasel words to try to reduce the enormity of what happened in the camps, without showing yourself to openly be a Holocaust denier.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,314
    mercator said:

    Transcribed unscripted speech always looks bonkers. Get your phone to record you in the pub and then transcribe you if you doubt this. Yes trump is bonkers and yes this is evidence of that but not strong evidence (and Kamala without an autocue isn't great either).

    Six sleeps till debate day.

    Trump did a one-hour sit down with Lex Fridman a couple of days ago, where he comes across as mentally okay even if you don’t agree with what he has to say.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCbfTN-caFI&
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,866
    A somewhat interesting line in the Telegraph, about some help (but not an out) for Rachel Reeves due to the triple lock.

    "State pension ‘to rise by £400'"
    https://archive.ph/mS0KQ

    On the front page, the Telegraph creates a fake link to abolition of WFA and criticism of RR, which is not in the article, which will be picked up by headline readers and twitter types:

    "State pension ‘to rise by £400' after Reeves criticised for winter fuel allowance cuts".
  • LeonLeon Posts: 53,240
    edited September 4
    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    I agree he does say some mad stuff on there. At the same time he also allows some pretty wild abuse of himself - which I find surprising for a guy with a thin skin

    In the round I think Free Speech TwiX is a good thing, not least because it has revealed just how biased to the left Twitter was before. I do not expect PB to agree with this
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    mercator said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
    For extra LOLs, the Brazilian military really like Starlink and are petitioning the judge to allow them to make payment overseas.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Was it not millions?
    I hope, Luckyguy, this is you being naive, rather than you siding with a Holocaust denier. Cooper phrases what happened as "millions of people ended up dead" to downplay that they were deliberately killed by the Nazis. Cooper is arguing that the millions dead was an unintended side-effect of their incarceration in camps, rather than intended genocide.
    Important to note that konzentrazionlager was a euphemism; a concentration camp is literally just a camp for keeping a lot of people together in one place. Cooper's claim is apparently that it was not a euphemism and that the deaths were a by product.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    FF43 said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Nowhere near as expert as others on here but did read a Japanese sourced claim that the planners pretty much knew they were doomed but thought preemptive strike was their best chance given the American blockade on Japan was intolerable.
    That's my understanding.

    Although the US was so short of carriers in 1943 they even 'borrowed' a British one. Hence HMS Victorious became USS Robin:

    https://www.history.navy.mil/browse-by-topic/wars-conflicts-and-operations/world-war-ii/1943/beyond-guadalcanal/uss-robin.html
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    PA tie seems to be the problem.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,358
    Leon said:

    His argument now is that $44bn was “not the price of Twitter but the price of free speech”. Its quite a good line

    Except he doesn't differentiate between free speech and hate speech

    They are not the same thing, however much money you have
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    mercator said:

    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    PA tie seems to be the problem.
    Harris is at 273 without PA here though.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    MattW said:

    mercator said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
    The wild west free marketeers have a slight problem arguing that in a country that dealt with Standard Oil more than a century ago.

    But perhaps it satellites weren't in the text of the Constitution (excluding the bits they are ignoring), so regulatory capture is OK :smile: .
    My point was about the de facto position. Now the satellites are up there watchagonna do about them? Jam? Shoot down? Arrest Musk in his JB villain converted volcano?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    edited September 4

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Wait until Tucker and this 'historian' hear about the other guy.

    Liberals and conservatives alike have turned on Tucker Carlson after controversial podcaster and self-proclaimed historian Darryl Cooper claimed on Carlson’s show that “millions of people ended up dead” in Nazi concentration camps.

    Cooper also painted U.K. prime minister Winston Churchill as the “chief villain” of World War II.

    Carlson said on X that Cooper “may be the best and most honest popular historian in the United States” when posting The Tucker Carlson Show Monday episode, which featured topics like Christianity and authoritarians like Viktor Orbán and Vladimir Putin.


    https://www.thedailybeast.com/tucker-carlson-slammed-after-hosting-nazi-apologist-on-podcast

    Some Yank historian called Darryl Cooper reckons "Winston Churchill is the chief villain of World War 2".

    He's going to shit his fucking pants when he reads up about the other guy.


    https://x.com/thesundaysport/status/1831223073611104393
    Nope. He's a Hitler stan apparently

    https://x.com/yashar/status/1831129276026134572
    A Hitler fan on Fucker Carlson's show?

    No, I refuse to believe that.
    I expect he is.

    I can see a case of depicting Winston Churchill as villain from the American isolationist perspective. It hinges on what date you consider the start of WW2:

    1937 for China and Japan
    1939 for Britain, Germany, France, Italy
    1941 for Russia and the USA

    Churchill made great efforts to involve America in the European War, and in pushing for a Germany first policy, rather than a Pacific war against Japan.

    The argument rather falls down as it was Hitler that declared war on the USA, not vice versa.
    Germany was the most dangerous enemy, so that made sense even if it was Japan that actually hit America first.
    Certainly from our perspective, less so from the American, and even less so from the Australian.

    The Pacific War had to wait more for logistic reasons. It takes a while to build all those ships
    No, because Japan depended on oil for its fleet that could be, and was, easily cut-off and couldn't project much force thereafter, nor did it innovate much in technology.

    Germany was developing nuclear weapons, jet fighters, cutting-edge tanks and effectively projecting force with submarines - and could have gone further unchecked, particularly if the Soviets had been defeated.

    Germany was a bigger threat to the US.
    I’d say that the IJN was technologically superior to the German Navy.

    In terms of stuff that actually got used.

    Their aircraft carriers for instance. Though they did turn out to have glass jaws.
    To be fair, the Japanese walked into a massive elephant trap at Midway thanks to the US cracking Japan’s SIGINT
    If the Japanese had managed to sink the entire US Navy, within 18 months, the US navy would have been bigger than the IJN.

    The relative construction rates were that absurd. The US started cancelling ships, because while they could have afforded and manned them, there was no need for them. The submarines ran out of targets, for example, and most spent 1945 picking up downed pilots…

    There was no way Japan could have won.
    Yes, the basic problem with Japan was getting them to admit they had lost the war even after the almost complete destruction of their army, navy and air force, and blockade of the islands and consequent starvation of the populace.
    Morning. everybody.

    I think I've posted this before, but anyway. Some years ago we went to the cemetery at the "Bridge over the River Kwai' in Thailand, and, after viewing the heartbreaking cemetery, we had lecture by an Australian (sounded like that anyway) historian who opined that the American policy post WWI of treating the N.Pacific as an American lake had effectively destroyed the previously good relationship between the British and the Japanese, resulting in the Japanese attacking British possessions in the Far East.
    I heard a funny story about this on a podcast a while back. After a disaster at sea, the US government 'decided' to put emergency shelters and equipment on a load of deserted Pacific islands. These had to be manned; and were resupplied by mail packets every six months.

    Very rapidly, it turned out that sailors went (ahem) a little crazy when put on a deserted island for months. So someone had the bright idea to ask: "Who likes spending loads of time on sunny Pacific beaches?" and came up with the idea of sending Hawaiian youths. Who apparently spent much of their time surfing, and generally loved the experience.

    (All from memory; cannot find a reference online immediately...)

    Edit: I think they also sent back regular weather reports as well. Of course, this also extended the US's influence over the islands they were inhabiting...
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Pulpstar said:

    mercator said:

    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    PA tie seems to be the problem.
    Harris is at 273 without PA here though.
    Good point. First rule of politics, learn to count.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    a
    Pulpstar said:

    mercator said:

    Pulpstar said:

    New polling from CNN in the battleground states

    https://edition.cnn.com/2024/09/04/politics/cnn-polls-battleground-states/index.html
    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    Wisconsin H+6
    Michigan H+5
    Georgia H+1
    Nevada H+1
    Pennsylvania Tie
    Arizona T+5

    Surely 2.08 Harris can't last with polling like this.
    PA tie seems to be the problem.
    Harris is at 273 without PA here though.
    Still a knife-edge, though with an advantage to Harris.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,196
    Sandpit said:

    mercator said:

    Transcribed unscripted speech always looks bonkers. Get your phone to record you in the pub and then transcribe you if you doubt this. Yes trump is bonkers and yes this is evidence of that but not strong evidence (and Kamala without an autocue isn't great either).

    Six sleeps till debate day.

    Trump did a one-hour sit down with Lex Fridman a couple of days ago, where he comes across as mentally okay even if you don’t agree with what he has to say.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCbfTN-caFI&
    Comes across as mentally okay is damning with faint praise!
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Scott_xP said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Are we at or passing peak Elmu? He can intimidate and oppress mortals with his wealth, social media reach and phalanx of clone lab grown lawyers but if he takes on the Republic of Brazil and/or the EU then he's going to come off second best.

    He does seem to have abandoned any pretense that buying Twitter was a sound business move and fully embraced it as a personal propaganda machine
    Whatever the fuck it is that he thinks he's doing, he's doing it from principle because his adoption of alt-right shitposting as a lifestyle is definitely hurting his companies. It's just that he's literally the worse human being that's ever lived so all of his principles are terrible.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,420
    mercator said:

    MattW said:

    mercator said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
    The wild west free marketeers have a slight problem arguing that in a country that dealt with Standard Oil more than a century ago.

    But perhaps it satellites weren't in the text of the Constitution (excluding the bits they are ignoring), so regulatory capture is OK :smile: .
    My point was about the de facto position. Now the satellites are up there watchagonna do about them? Jam? Shoot down? Arrest Musk in his JB villain converted volcano?
    The satellites are regulated by the US government and the International Telecommunication Union (agency of the UN). Under the ITU, Starlink requires a license from each country it operates in.

    The judge, quite specifically, didn't attempt to withdraw the Starlink license. The question is whether it is outside his competence (but he doesn't seem to acknowledge many limits on his powers) or because the Government want to keep and use Starlink.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,462
    mercator said:

    MattW said:

    mercator said:

    Dopermean said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @elonmusk

    A Trump victory is essential to defense of freedom of speech, secure borders, safe cities and sensible spending!

    @SethAbramson

    (📣) The President of Brazil has issued a statement about Twitter:

    “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich.”

    https://x.com/SethAbramson/status/1831169253426262228

    Most sensible comment on twitter for a while
    Not really. “The world isn’t obliged to put up with Elon Musk’s far-right free-for-all just because he is rich, but because he has FCC approval to put 50 000 comms satellites in LEO” would state the position more accurately. He pretty much owns the world.
    The wild west free marketeers have a slight problem arguing that in a country that dealt with Standard Oil more than a century ago.

    But perhaps it satellites weren't in the text of the Constitution (excluding the bits they are ignoring), so regulatory capture is OK :smile: .
    My point was about the de facto position. Now the satellites are up there watchagonna do about them? Jam? Shoot down? Arrest Musk in his JB villain converted volcano?
    In the medium term, as they're in a very low orbit, you don't need to shoot the satellites down; they're coming down by themselves within three to six years. Which is why they constantly need to launch new ones up.

    Musk is a big issue; he is more of a threat to world stability than Trump.
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