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Support for an elected head of state up by a quarter since Charles became king

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  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    The C-Dogg seems like a good fella, but it’s a genetic lottery. He could just as easily been an arch wanker in the Boris mould and we’d be lumbered with him as king nevertheless.
    Still better any constitutional monarch than a politician head of state, though of course parliament also has to approve the new monarch at the Accession Council
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    DougSeal said:

    In a similar vein to this thread header I’d like to point out there were fewer murders and armed robberies during the Truss premiership than during the tenure of any other Prime Minister. She’s waiting for a grateful country to welcome her back.

    Indeed Doug, indeed. Far be it from me to speculate, but I wonder if THE TRUSS might run on her stellar record on crime and stage a coup, culminating in her leading the Tory Party - and triggering an immediate general election? PM by Christmas?
  • HYUFD said:

    Went to a reception this evening with Priti Patel. She was certainly punchy in attacking Starmer's new government and has 'oomph' which opposition leaders need. Though I suspect she would appeal more to Tory voters lost to Reform than Labour and the LDs

    Hardly matters - she is wasting her time
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    DougSeal said:

    In a similar vein to this thread header I’d like to point out there were fewer murders and armed robberies during the Truss premiership than during the tenure of any other Prime Minister. She’s waiting for a grateful country to welcome her back.

    Indeed Doug, indeed. Far be it from me to speculate, but I wonder if THE TRUSS might run on her stellar record on crime and stage a coup, culminating in her leading the Tory Party - and triggering an immediate general election? PM by Christmas?
    Given she is not even an MP, having lost on one of the biggest swings in history, she is not eligible
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,376
    ohnotnow said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Not a good idea - look what he did in I Claudius.

    (Still the best ever TV historical drama series)
    Give 'The Cleopatras' a go. It's not nearly as good - but way, way under-rated in comparison.

    (Also, quite a lot of nekkid - so nsfw)
    The Cleopatras was on YouTube. I downloaded it all from there and watched it during covid. Amanda Boxers character met a bleak end.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Does anyone know where we can see the actual latest German election results, as opposed to projections, exit polls, etc? I've searched with no success so far.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    kjh said:

    @hyufd I was in your part of the world on Friday. On my trip to our Southwold house I popped into a place near Epping that sells replica Cobras and GT40s. Thought I had been to Epping in the dim and distant past, but I had no recollection.

    @Dura_Ace will be lived I am looking at them. He has filled a quarry with Panthers to ensure I don't buy one of them. He now has to move onto Cobras. I would love a GT40 but realistically you can't take it to the pub.

    Glad you found a shop of interest in Epping
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    HYUFD said:

    DougSeal said:

    In a similar vein to this thread header I’d like to point out there were fewer murders and armed robberies during the Truss premiership than during the tenure of any other Prime Minister. She’s waiting for a grateful country to welcome her back.

    Indeed Doug, indeed. Far be it from me to speculate, but I wonder if THE TRUSS might run on her stellar record on crime and stage a coup, culminating in her leading the Tory Party - and triggering an immediate general election? PM by Christmas?
    Given she is not even an MP, having lost on one of the biggest swings in history, she is not eligible
    Where there is a will, as they say, there is a way.

    TRUSS
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 1

    HYUFD said:

    Went to a reception this evening with Priti Patel. She was certainly punchy in attacking Starmer's new government and has 'oomph' which opposition leaders need. Though I suspect she would appeal more to Tory voters lost to Reform than Labour and the LDs

    Hardly matters - she is wasting her time
    She could be the one to watch next time, even if not this time. Michael Howard of course came at the back of the pack in the 1997 Tory leadership election despite also being a former Home Sec like Priti. Yet he ended up party leader at the next general election but one and made rather more seat gains in 2005 than Hague had in 2001 (if Jenrick or Badenoch ends up this year's Hague)
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Jenrick also has quite a pleasant voice. A big contrast with Starmer and Reeves.
  • Just saw that Jenrick video.

    Comes across like a 6th form Tory Boy doing a turn at the debating union, with a slightly stilted and overrehearsed, and not particularly coherent, history listen.

    Gone back a step now, in my eyes.

    JENRICK
    I read this and thought of you

    BBC News - Post Office handles record amount of cash
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36nrw02yy5o
    JENRICK
    Cash
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Jenrick also has quite a pleasant voice. A big contrast with Starmer and Reeves.

    JENRICK. THE VOICE.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    edited September 1

    It appears that in the present turbulent times the Monarchy is about the only thing that is guaranteed to survive.

    Chatting with my son who lives in Berlin. The rise of the so called far right is staggering. The AFD make Reform seem like a centrist party. The BSW would be banned in the UK but are seen as the reasonable right. As with France the biggest shift is the young white men. As with France the Government will try to continue to govern but without real authority. Crack downs such as in the UK will just make martyrs and accelerate the trend. The curtain is truly coming down across Europe.

    BSW would be banned in the UK? I thought they were a mostly left-wing populist party, except on immigration.
  • FF43 said:

    .

    Kemi Badenoch
    @KemiBadenoch
    ·
    1h
    Tomorrow, I launch my
    @renewal2030
    campaign to be the next leader of our great Conservative Party.

    Join me at 11.00am, here on X!

    https://x.com/KemiBadenoch/status/1830296975079842209

    Interesting interview with Kemi Badenoch, making a couple of points I haven't heard from other candidates. Need a clearer narrative - don't talk right and act left. Government should do fewer things better. Make the case for capitalism. She's a technocrat at heart (not the word she uses). Claims a backstory of African poverty surmounted through entrepreneurship.

    Not for me to pick holes in any of this - members will rightly choose their leader on partisan grounds. Interesting interview nevertheless.

    https://conservativehome.com/2024/08/19/cchqs-in-conversation-with-kemi-badenoch/
    Her dad was a GP and her mum, a professor. She was born in Wimbledon, although spent a chunk of childhood in Lagos (and other time in the US). Not exactly poverty.

    And she worked in big companies (Logica, RBS, Coutts), so not exactly being an entrepreneur.
    Hold on. Kemi has a parent who is a GP (as does Rishi) and another who is a professor (as does Liz Truss). Born for the job! No wonder she is favourite on Betfair.
  • boulay said:

    It appears that in the present turbulent times the Monarchy is about the only thing that is guaranteed to survive.

    Chatting with my son who lives in Berlin. The rise of the so called far right is staggering. The AFD make Reform seem like a centrist party. The BSW would be banned in the UK but are seen as the reasonable right. As with France the biggest shift is the young white men. As with France the Government will try to continue to govern but without real authority. Crack downs such as in the UK will just make martyrs and accelerate the trend. The curtain is truly coming down across Europe.






    Could it be argued that these far-right parties fulfill a useful pressure valve? They won’t get into power but allow sections of society to feel they have a voice.

    I know this is a hostage to fortune as they won’t get into power until they do but I think there is still enough of a social memory in Europe where enough people from the spectrum will join together to keep the extremes out.

    Don’t know how I types that, I’m shitfaced.
    Where do the Netherlands and Italy fit into your analysis?
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696
    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    if he is elected leader tories will be out of power for ten years.....which is exactly why they will elect him.
    True , Jenrick really is the worst choice .
    Yep. But he will be a disaster with the public and they will throw him out within two or three years.

    Whoever leads will be the tenth since the defenestration of MrsT in 1990. In that time Labour have appointed six, one of whom of course unexpectedly died in office.

    Unless they can appoint a genuine long term statesman/woman with top political nous and outstanding leadership ability who can unite the centre right, set the direction, be popular but not populist they are in very grave difficulty at a moment where the loss of 25 more seats to the LDs would put then third.

    Of the 6: I would give Tugendhat and Stride an outside chance of having the relevant qualities. The others, virtually zero. For those who enjoy the show, Badenoch would be interesting, but character would tell in the end. Patel and Jenrick: no hope disasters, just awful. Cleverly: not much better. From the betting point of view, ignore all the above and DYOR. I don't see any value at the moment.
    I'm surprised Patel isn't getting more cut through. I loathe her politics but she's an articulate and polite speaker who gives the impression of having a brain.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Just saw that Jenrick video.

    Comes across like a 6th form Tory Boy doing a turn at the debating union, with a slightly stilted and overrehearsed, and not particularly coherent, history listen.

    Gone back a step now, in my eyes.

    JENRICK
    I read this and thought of you

    BBC News - Post Office handles record amount of cash
    https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c36nrw02yy5o
    JENRICK
    Cash
    He quit, much the pity.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Catching up on things and I’m curious. Why are @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles looking to replace Vanilla? What do they want the forum software to do?

    Asking for a friend (so to speak).

    I assume it's because Vanilla is no longer allowing most recent post at the top on the PB.com site?
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Went to a reception this evening with Priti Patel. She was certainly punchy in attacking Starmer's new government and has 'oomph' which opposition leaders need. Though I suspect she would appeal more to Tory voters lost to Reform than Labour and the LDs

    Hardly matters - she is wasting her time
    She could be the one to watch next time, even if not this time. Michael Howard of course came at the back of the pack in the 1997 Tory leadership election despite also being a former Home Sec like Priti. Yet he ended up party leader at the next general election but one and made rather more seat gains in 2005 than Hague had in 2001 (if Jenrick or Badenoch ends up this year's Hague)
    Here's hoping Patel is as successful as Howard.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    While I agree with you totally on this what do you replace it with. I think president blair would be a vomit enducing price for most. I really dont like the royals I will say but I do suspect what replaces them will me shall we say even more repugnant
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Stereodog said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    if he is elected leader tories will be out of power for ten years.....which is exactly why they will elect him.
    True , Jenrick really is the worst choice .
    Yep. But he will be a disaster with the public and they will throw him out within two or three years.

    Whoever leads will be the tenth since the defenestration of MrsT in 1990. In that time Labour have appointed six, one of whom of course unexpectedly died in office.

    Unless they can appoint a genuine long term statesman/woman with top political nous and outstanding leadership ability who can unite the centre right, set the direction, be popular but not populist they are in very grave difficulty at a moment where the loss of 25 more seats to the LDs would put then third.

    Of the 6: I would give Tugendhat and Stride an outside chance of having the relevant qualities. The others, virtually zero. For those who enjoy the show, Badenoch would be interesting, but character would tell in the end. Patel and Jenrick: no hope disasters, just awful. Cleverly: not much better. From the betting point of view, ignore all the above and DYOR. I don't see any value at the moment.
    I'm surprised Patel isn't getting more cut through. I loathe her politics but she's an articulate and polite speaker who gives the impression of having a brain.
    LOL.

    https://youtu.be/_DrsVhzbLzU?si=kJ9mAMRwQtdbT0Nw
  • Pagan2 said:

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    While I agree with you totally on this what do you replace it with. I think president blair would be a vomit enducing price for most. I really dont like the royals I will say but I do suspect what replaces them will me shall we say even more repugnant
    Why do you think Blair would be elected?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 1

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Went to a reception this evening with Priti Patel. She was certainly punchy in attacking Starmer's new government and has 'oomph' which opposition leaders need. Though I suspect she would appeal more to Tory voters lost to Reform than Labour and the LDs

    Hardly matters - she is wasting her time
    She could be the one to watch next time, even if not this time. Michael Howard of course came at the back of the pack in the 1997 Tory leadership election despite also being a former Home Sec like Priti. Yet he ended up party leader at the next general election but one and made rather more seat gains in 2005 than Hague had in 2001 (if Jenrick or Badenoch ends up this year's Hague)
    Here's hoping Patel is as successful as Howard.
    Slashing the Labour majority by 101 seats? That set the way for Cameron's winning most seats in 2010
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited September 1
    FPT:

    LOL. It's one rule for us, one rule for them...

    "The MP also admitted his flats did not have the correct property licences required under a scheme he introduced as Redbridge Council leader, having earlier claimed to the BBC that he had complied with the rules."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crkm15z1r82o

    He's up a creek. He's now sacked his Managing Agent, but has not yet got to grips with the fact that he is the Principal with the responsibilities. It's all slopey shoulders and weasel words.

    The Whips need to find a way out ideally without a byelection; and it has to be around protecting the tenants not covering the MP's arse or doing a petulant punishment in the hope that it will go away.

    It won't go away. Plus they have all the others who are potential timebombs if similar. They have to fix the underlying issue, and will only get one chance to do it without possible damage. I wonder if the BBC have any others ready to publish?

    My photo for the day is the Mr Wotsit's block of flats; it's quite remarkably intense development eg no outside space - 2 more floors on top of a long commercial unit in the long back garden of a shop unit. And many more similar in the street.


    He'll be getting an income of £100-150k per annum at a fairly modest estimate from just those 7 flats together, at 1200-1800 per month per flat.

    (Wondering about doing a header on this, as there is a lot of politics, and I've written part of it in late night comments, not least because he is still a Councillor and was Leader of Redbridge Borough Council until July.)
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Stereodog said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    if he is elected leader tories will be out of power for ten years.....which is exactly why they will elect him.
    True , Jenrick really is the worst choice .
    Yep. But he will be a disaster with the public and they will throw him out within two or three years.

    Whoever leads will be the tenth since the defenestration of MrsT in 1990. In that time Labour have appointed six, one of whom of course unexpectedly died in office.

    Unless they can appoint a genuine long term statesman/woman with top political nous and outstanding leadership ability who can unite the centre right, set the direction, be popular but not populist they are in very grave difficulty at a moment where the loss of 25 more seats to the LDs would put then third.

    Of the 6: I would give Tugendhat and Stride an outside chance of having the relevant qualities. The others, virtually zero. For those who enjoy the show, Badenoch would be interesting, but character would tell in the end. Patel and Jenrick: no hope disasters, just awful. Cleverly: not much better. From the betting point of view, ignore all the above and DYOR. I don't see any value at the moment.
    I'm surprised Patel isn't getting more cut through. I loathe her politics but she's an articulate and polite speaker who gives the impression of having a brain.
    LOL.

    https://youtu.be/_DrsVhzbLzU?si=kJ9mAMRwQtdbT0Nw
    She also looks good in latex
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411

    Jenrick also has quite a pleasant voice. A big contrast with Starmer and Reeves.

    JENRICK. THE VOICE.
    Not an album that will do quite as well as Russell Watson.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,786
    HYUFD said:


    kjh said:

    @hyufd I was in your part of the world on Friday. On my trip to our Southwold house I popped into a place near Epping that sells replica Cobras and GT40s. Thought I had been to Epping in the dim and distant past, but I had no recollection.

    @Dura_Ace will be lived I am looking at them. He has filled a quarry with Panthers to ensure I don't buy one of them. He now has to move onto Cobras. I would love a GT40 but realistically you can't take it to the pub.

    Glad you found a shop of interest in Epping
    It was very impressive. At least 30 replica Cobras and half a dozen GT40s. That is a huge investment in cars and probably one of the biggest selections in the world, certainly one of the biggest in the UK. They spent 2 hours with me. I was really struggling on how you price them and learnt a lot. You can buy a 2nd hand cobra replica from £35k upto hundreds of thousand regardless of mileage (they are all low) and age.. An original sold for just under $14m and is the 15th most expensive car ever sold so it is a minefield.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871

    Pagan2 said:

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    While I agree with you totally on this what do you replace it with. I think president blair would be a vomit enducing price for most. I really dont like the royals I will say but I do suspect what replaces them will me shall we say even more repugnant
    Why do you think Blair would be elected?
    Blair was an example not a given. I can't think I have anyone I can think of that is better than charles but I also think charles is the word we aren't allowed to say I just think anyone elected would be worse
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited September 1

    ...

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    Have you ever read or viewed an interview with Robert Jenrick where he explains why he ordered the murals painted over? I haven't - perhaps it might be interesting, rather than using it to fuel your outrage.
    He said he regretted giving the order to paint over the murals . He added that too many adults come pretending to be children .

    Which is irrelevant IMO because actually giving the order to begin with shows he’s a soulless , spiteful individual .


  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,890
    edited September 1

    Catching up on things and I’m curious. Why are @rcs1000 and @TheScreamingEagles looking to replace Vanilla? What do they want the forum software to do?

    Asking for a friend (so to speak).

    I assume it's because Vanilla is no longer allowing most recent post at the top on the PB.com site?
    No, I think it is because Vanilla's planned future development takes it away from pb's use case.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696

    Stereodog said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    if he is elected leader tories will be out of power for ten years.....which is exactly why they will elect him.
    True , Jenrick really is the worst choice .
    Yep. But he will be a disaster with the public and they will throw him out within two or three years.

    Whoever leads will be the tenth since the defenestration of MrsT in 1990. In that time Labour have appointed six, one of whom of course unexpectedly died in office.

    Unless they can appoint a genuine long term statesman/woman with top political nous and outstanding leadership ability who can unite the centre right, set the direction, be popular but not populist they are in very grave difficulty at a moment where the loss of 25 more seats to the LDs would put then third.

    Of the 6: I would give Tugendhat and Stride an outside chance of having the relevant qualities. The others, virtually zero. For those who enjoy the show, Badenoch would be interesting, but character would tell in the end. Patel and Jenrick: no hope disasters, just awful. Cleverly: not much better. From the betting point of view, ignore all the above and DYOR. I don't see any value at the moment.
    I'm surprised Patel isn't getting more cut through. I loathe her politics but she's an articulate and polite speaker who gives the impression of having a brain.
    LOL.

    https://youtu.be/_DrsVhzbLzU?si=kJ9mAMRwQtdbT0Nw
    Bit harsh (that was rather a while ago) but I take your point. I thought she was rather good at the dispatch box and I've seen her be very charming at cross party events.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    Jenrick also has quite a pleasant voice. A big contrast with Starmer and Reeves.

    JENRICK. THE VOICE.
    Not an album that will do quite as well as Russell Watson.
    But potentially a Christmas Number One (in the polls).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    Andy_JS said:
    Thuringia question.

    Who said "Not in Thuringia, Father."

    When and where?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 1

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    I can't get too excited about the thought of another Starmer at Buck House.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    edited September 1
    Stereodog said:

    algarkirk said:

    nico679 said:

    Nunu5 said:

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    if he is elected leader tories will be out of power for ten years.....which is exactly why they will elect him.
    True , Jenrick really is the worst choice .
    Yep. But he will be a disaster with the public and they will throw him out within two or three years.

    Whoever leads will be the tenth since the defenestration of MrsT in 1990. In that time Labour have appointed six, one of whom of course unexpectedly died in office.

    Unless they can appoint a genuine long term statesman/woman with top political nous and outstanding leadership ability who can unite the centre right, set the direction, be popular but not populist they are in very grave difficulty at a moment where the loss of 25 more seats to the LDs would put then third.

    Of the 6: I would give Tugendhat and Stride an outside chance of having the relevant qualities. The others, virtually zero. For those who enjoy the show, Badenoch would be interesting, but character would tell in the end. Patel and Jenrick: no hope disasters, just awful. Cleverly: not much better. From the betting point of view, ignore all the above and DYOR. I don't see any value at the moment.
    I'm surprised Patel isn't getting more cut through. I loathe her politics but she's an articulate and polite speaker who gives the impression of having a brain.
    I think she'd be excellent at PMQs. Scathing wind-up merchant, could be Starmer's kryptonite.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Kaos is fun.
    Recommended.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    The C-Dogg seems like a good fella, but it’s a genetic lottery. He could just as easily been an arch wanker in the Boris mould and we’d be lumbered with him as king nevertheless.
    Boris has some elements that would make him an OK monarch. National cheerleader. Fun bonker in the style of Charles II and Edward VII.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,411

    Jenrick also has quite a pleasant voice. A big contrast with Starmer and Reeves.

    JENRICK. THE VOICE.
    Not an album that will do quite as well as Russell Watson.
    But potentially a Christmas Number One (in the polls).
    As long as Bill Nighy doesn't turn up.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    nico679 said:

    ...

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    Have you ever read or viewed an interview with Robert Jenrick where he explains why he ordered the murals painted over? I haven't - perhaps it might be interesting, rather than using it to fuel your outrage.
    He said he regretted giving the order to paint over the murals . He added that too many adults come pretending to be children .

    Which is irrelevant IMO because actually giving the order to begin with shows he’s a soulless , spiteful individual .

    I thought it might have been that. When the 5000th 'child' that looked like a retiring heavyweight boxer came lumbering into view, perhaps something snapped and he decided the sheer fraudulent performative wankery of it had to stop.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
    Patel, Badenoch and probably Jenrick would do a deal with Farage to get Labour out if the numbers were there.

    Tugendhat, Stride and probably Cleverly though would likely do a deal with Starmer Labour and the LDs to keep out Farage if a hung parliament next time after big Reform gains
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
    Patel, Badenoch and probably Jenrick would do a deal with Farage to get Labour out if the numbers were there.

    Tugendhat, Stride and probably Cleverly though would likely do a deal with Starmer Labour and the LDs to keep out Farage if a hung parliament next time after big Reform gains
    The latter would be suicide, but seems to be your favoured option?
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    boulay said:

    It appears that in the present turbulent times the Monarchy is about the only thing that is guaranteed to survive.

    Chatting with my son who lives in Berlin. The rise of the so called far right is staggering. The AFD make Reform seem like a centrist party. The BSW would be banned in the UK but are seen as the reasonable right. As with France the biggest shift is the young white men. As with France the Government will try to continue to govern but without real authority. Crack downs such as in the UK will just make martyrs and accelerate the trend. The curtain is truly coming down across Europe.






    Could it be argued that these far-right parties fulfill a useful pressure valve? They won’t get into power but allow sections of society to feel they have a voice.

    I know this is a hostage to fortune as they won’t get into power until they do but I think there is still enough of a social memory in Europe where enough people from the spectrum will join together to keep the extremes out.

    Don’t know how I types that, I’m shitfaced.
    Where do the Netherlands and Italy fit into your analysis?
    I love that you think there was any analysis other than a drunken response to covnce myself I could still think in this state.
  • Meanwhile, this looks significant for those who celebrate:

    Tomorrow's Paper Today 📰

    GRADE BIG U-TURN ON SCHOOLS

    ONE-WORD OFSTED STATEMENTS SCRAPPED IMMEDIATELY

    🔴 Move follows headteacher Ruth's suicide

    #tomorrowspaperstoday


    https://x.com/MetroUK/status/1830338523238433064

    Partly for itself, but also for the bits of the system that cease to happen if schools can't be judged RI or Inadequate.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,955

    nico679 said:

    ...

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    Have you ever read or viewed an interview with Robert Jenrick where he explains why he ordered the murals painted over? I haven't - perhaps it might be interesting, rather than using it to fuel your outrage.
    He said he regretted giving the order to paint over the murals . He added that too many adults come pretending to be children .

    Which is irrelevant IMO because actually giving the order to begin with shows he’s a soulless , spiteful individual .

    I thought it might have been that. When the 5000th 'child' that looked like a retiring heavyweight boxer came lumbering into view, perhaps something snapped and he decided the sheer fraudulent performative wankery of it had to stop.
    Painting over Micky Mouse is kinda fighting performative wankery with performative wankery.
  • On topic - LOL. The desperation of the Republicans.
  • Thuringia was one of the states where the Nazi Party first gained real political power during the Weimar Republic. Wilhelm Frick was appointed Minister of the Interior in the state coalition government after the Nazi Party won six deputies to the Thuringian Landtag in the December 1929 election. In this position, he removed from the Thuringian police force anyone he suspected of being a republican and replaced them with men who were favourable towards the Nazis. He also ensured that, whenever an important position came up within Thuringia, a Nazi was given that post. Following the Nazi seizure of power in Berlin, the Landtag was formally abolished as a result of the "Law on the Reconstruction of the Reich" of 30 January 1934, which replaced the German federal system with a unitary state.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thuringia
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    edited September 1

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    The C-Dogg seems like a good fella, but it’s a genetic lottery. He could just as easily been an arch wanker in the Boris mould and we’d be lumbered with him as king nevertheless.
    If the monarch ever proved themselves to be manifestly unsuitable for the role Parliament is able to swiftly arrange for an abdication and to give the crown to the first acceptable individual in the line of succession.

    It's not like it would be the first time.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190

    It appears that in the present turbulent times the Monarchy is about the only thing that is guaranteed to survive.

    Chatting with my son who lives in Berlin. The rise of the so called far right is staggering. The AFD make Reform seem like a centrist party. The BSW would be banned in the UK but are seen as the reasonable right. As with France the biggest shift is the young white men. As with France the Government will try to continue to govern but without real authority. Crack downs such as in the UK will just make martyrs and accelerate the trend. The curtain is truly coming down across Europe.






    Why would the BSW be banned in the UK???
    Nobody sees the BSW as rightwing, and the majority don't see them as reasonable.

    Also worth noting that the AfD only gained 3% in both Saxony and Thüringen compared to last time (in 2019).

    No surprise to see @Leon come out in support of a neo-nazi.
  • Nigelb said:

    Kaos is fun.
    Recommended.

    Agreed. Watched the fist two episodes last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543
    Some favourable polls for Trump from InsiderAdvantage and Trafalgar.

    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    IA
    Arizona T +1
    Nevada T+1
    Georgia tie
    N Carolina T+1
    Trafalgar
    Pennsylvania T+2
    Michigan tie
    Wisconsin T+1

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
    Patel, Badenoch and probably Jenrick would do a deal with Farage to get Labour out if the numbers were there.

    Tugendhat, Stride and probably Cleverly though would likely do a deal with Starmer Labour and the LDs to keep out Farage if a hung parliament next time after big Reform gains
    The latter would be suicide, but seems to be your favoured option?
    Would depend on the Maths, I would prefer a Tory majority obviously to either
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Pagan2 said:

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    While I agree with you totally on this what do you replace it with. I think president blair would be a vomit enducing price for most. I really dont like the royals I will say but I do suspect what replaces them will me shall we say even more repugnant
    How would Blair win a Presidential election if he would be vomit-inducing for most?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Your phone is telling you what to think. It’s just the start
    From search, to health cures or school lessons, AI is leaking into all areas of life. We need a national debate
    Kamal Ahmed"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/09/01/your-phone-is-telling-you-what-to-think-its-just-the-start/
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,419

    nico679 said:

    ...

    nico679 said:

    Does Jenrick get extra points amongst Tory members because he had the Disney mural painted over at the child refugee centre?

    He makes my skin crawl and reminds me of that scene in Schindlers List where the commandment comes over all sweet and nice to the grannie before ........

    Have you ever read or viewed an interview with Robert Jenrick where he explains why he ordered the murals painted over? I haven't - perhaps it might be interesting, rather than using it to fuel your outrage.
    He said he regretted giving the order to paint over the murals . He added that too many adults come pretending to be children .

    Which is irrelevant IMO because actually giving the order to begin with shows he’s a soulless , spiteful individual .

    I thought it might have been that. When the 5000th 'child' that looked like a retiring heavyweight boxer came lumbering into view, perhaps something snapped and he decided the sheer fraudulent performative wankery of it had to stop.
    Painting over Micky Mouse is kinda fighting performative wankery with performative wankery.
    True.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 1

    Some favourable polls for Trump from InsiderAdvantage and Trafalgar.

    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    IA
    Arizona T +1
    Nevada T+1
    Georgia tie
    N Carolina T+1
    Trafalgar
    Pennsylvania T+2
    Michigan tie
    Wisconsin T+1

    Indeed, though the Georgia number key for Harris if she wins there, Michigan, Wisconsin and Nevada she can win even without Pennsylvania.

    Activote has NC tied, if she wins there and Georgia with the Black vote and Kennedy Jr on the ballot in NC she wins 273 to 265 with Ne02 and Michigan even if Trump wins Arizona, Nevada and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania

    https://www.activote.net/trump-and-harris-exactly-tied-in-north-carolina/
    https://www.270towin.com/
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    What's Starmer going to ban next, I wonder?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
    They've brought in a partial ban in Australia quite recently. Can only obtain them in pharmacies.
  • Some favourable polls for Trump from InsiderAdvantage and Trafalgar.

    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    IA
    Arizona T +1
    Nevada T+1
    Georgia tie
    N Carolina T+1
    Trafalgar
    Pennsylvania T+2
    Michigan tie
    Wisconsin T+1

    Aren't Trafalgar the ones with the erm... distinctive... methodology?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @ParalympicsGB

    🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇🥇

    What. A. Day.

    Catch up on a super Sunday which saw #ParalympicsGB athletes claim a remarkable 12 golds 👇

    https://x.com/ParalympicsGB/status/1830339465648189899
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    Andy_JS said:

    What's Starmer going to ban next, I wonder?
    Dunno. What's he banned so far?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Just saw that Jenrick video.

    Comes across like a 6th form Tory Boy doing a turn at the debating union, with a slightly stilted and overrehearsed, and not particularly coherent, history listen.

    Gone back a step now, in my eyes.

    JENRICK
    Jenrick passes the two-second test. If you catch a two-second clip of him on the news without any context, he looks the part. Labour should be worried.
    The "part" you are referring to being a penis?
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
    Patel, Badenoch and probably Jenrick would do a deal with Farage to get Labour out if the numbers were there.

    Tugendhat, Stride and probably Cleverly though would likely do a deal with Starmer Labour and the LDs to keep out Farage if a hung parliament next time after big Reform gains
    You sum up all that is wrong with today's conservative party
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited September 1

    Some favourable polls for Trump from InsiderAdvantage and Trafalgar.

    https://www.270towin.com/polls/latest-2024-presidential-election-polls/

    IA
    Arizona T +1
    Nevada T+1
    Georgia tie
    N Carolina T+1
    Trafalgar
    Pennsylvania T+2
    Michigan tie
    Wisconsin T+1

    Ah Trafalgar. It's just like 2020 all over again.

    (Edit: I'm not sure Georgia tie is 'favourable to Trump'.)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    But he isn't the monarchy. People can think of him as a nice gossip column topic while not being happy with the monarchy as a political institution, which encourages people to cringe to it and, just as importantly, to the aristocracy and lords.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Andy_JS said:

    What's Starmer going to ban next, I wonder?
    “We are ending the scourge of Wordle to boost British productivity.”
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    Omnium said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Not a good idea - look what he did in I Claudius.

    (Still the best ever TV historical drama series)
    He would bribe the Guards and Parachute [edit, on checking] Division to let him take over?
    The Parachute division is now I presume a collection of Captains and Majors that'll be looked after? We've never lacked Captains and Majors.
    I was a bit surprised, not having quite kept up, to discover the Guards and the Paras are now in the same unit. Given what I've read about their very different Zeitgeists.
    I thought the Guards were for upper-class shits who can afford a horse, and the Paras were for working class c***s. How do they fit together?
    TBF that must be the officers, surely: unless gentleman rankers are still a thing.

    One does hope the constituent units aren't co-brigaded in the same garrison, else Friday nights might get interesting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Went to a reception this evening with Priti Patel. She was certainly punchy in attacking Starmer's new government and has 'oomph' which opposition leaders need. Though I suspect she would appeal more to Tory voters lost to Reform than Labour and the LDs

    Hardly matters - she is wasting her time
    She could be the one to watch next time, even if not this time. Michael Howard of course came at the back of the pack in the 1997 Tory leadership election despite also being a former Home Sec like Priti. Yet he ended up party leader at the next general election but one and made rather more seat gains in 2005 than Hague had in 2001 (if Jenrick or Badenoch ends up this year's Hague)
    Here's hoping Patel is as successful as Howard.
    Will she threaten to overrule someone?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    Removed = fine.
    Destroyed = not fine.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    'I'm not Harry Potter' - Ten Hag defends Man Utd after Liverpool loss

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/cx2n1n77wgdo

    Is Harry Potter available?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,829
    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    The discussion of I, Claudius earlier reminds one that the cult of worship of the state gods is still a thing, complete with statues and portraits. It's not as if damnatio memoriae had been decreed on the good Lady Thatcher, after all.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,126
    FPT:

    Mortimer said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    People worried about paying higher taxes are worried about seeing no return for their taxes. What is needed is quick and easy evidence of improvement. Something like a blitz on potholes would do the job. Unfortunately, fixing the NHS, our infrastructure or the asylum system won’t be quick or easy, but if people see something positive happening, they will be more patient with fixing the big issues.

    One thing that I find interesting is the *type* of people who are thinking of moving.

    Not just business owners, but employees on high salaries. And given the collapse in contracting, these people are nearly all on PAYE.

    So the idea that they aren’t paying a lot of tax already is simply impossible.

    I would never consider leaving England under any circumstances short of civil war. But from a purely monetary point of view it would certainly be tempting. Currently I pay 49% of my turnover in tax which I think is a ridiculous state of affairs.

    More likely, as Labour destroy our energy independence and we move to more and more imports, I will probably move back to working overseas permanently on rotation. Not something I want to do but needs must. It improves both my job prospects and my tax situation. I will still be providing the UK with oil and gas - I will just be doing it from the Middle East or South America.
    Many multinationals are offering working from any country they have an office in.

    It’s the flip side of WFH.
    I seem to recall a lot of Tories saying WFH was terrible and people needed to go back to the office.
    There’s a difference between them, who can be trusted to WFH, and the oiks they employ, who can’t.
    Ah, yes, like there’s a difference between them, who can be trusted with freedom of movement, and the oiks they employ, who can’t!
    And whom they conned into voting for Brexit.
    Conned into having full employment and pay rises.

    But how terrible that they've lost their 'right' to pick turnips in Transylvania.
    Yet strangely those pay rises and full employment are forcing Brexiteer citizens of nowhere to flee these shores as the public sector has to match pay and conditions to keep staff.

    It's almost as if they don't give a damn about levelling up.
    Why are you so angry recently?
    I am not angry.

    A bit tetchy about Brexiteers who whinge about paying for what they voted for, higher pay for their fellow citizens and levelling up of neglected areas, levelling up requiring relative progress compared with their own favoured areas. It isn't ex miners in Mansfield talking of going into tax exile.
    I didn't vote for higher pay for train drivers and other union dominated industries.

    The public sector don't realise they're born compared to the private sector. Safe jobs and decent pensions, particularly for those who aren't strong performers. It is they, not those of us who pay the bill, who ought to stop whingeing.

    But more important than that, I didn't vote for puritanical socialists to tell people what they should and shouldn't do in their private lives.

    I suspect Labour polling at 30% is going to looked upon wistfully by those on the left come September 1 2025....
    Get a public sector job then. There are plenty of unfilled places in multiple roles.
    Nah. Don't like the moralising. Don't like the conformity, or the rewarding of mediocrity.

    Most of all, I enjoy making money for myself, my family, and the country. Much of what we sell is exported. We help the balance of payments!

    Luckily lots of us do, otherwise the public sector wouldn't be feasible.

    It is a kick in the teeth, however, when those of us who already contribute so much are looking at a soaking.

    To fund an inefficient public sector.....
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Get Carter just starting on BBC2.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Looks like a clear win for the AfD in Thurungia state elections and the CDU narrowly winning in Saxony. The governing SPD, Green and FDP parties look to have been trounced, not only behind the AfD and CDU but leftwing populist BSW and Linke
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cn02w01xr2jo

    I don't know why the CDU don't simply put the tanks on the lawn of the AfD and co-opt their policies, or them. They aren't going away, and nor can they be condemned or ignored away.

    I suppose there is a very particular German history of that failing catastrophically, however.

    As at the moment on current German polls CDU opposition leader Merz knows he can be Chancellor of a grand coalition government with the SPD again and effectively dictate terms to current Chancellor Scholz to keep the AfD from power.

    If Reform really took off ie 25-30% of the vote, 100-150 seats with gains mainly in redwall Labour seats and Labour lost its majority, you could even have a Labour and Tory coalition government here to keep Farage out if say Tugendhat or Cleverly was Tory leader
    I'm not that bothered about keeping Farage out, and am more interested in getting Labour out.

    That's the difference.
    You prefer the fash-curious to democratic socialists and social democrats. Fair enough.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    The C-Dogg seems like a good fella, but it’s a genetic lottery. He could just as easily been an arch wanker in the Boris mould and we’d be lumbered with him as king nevertheless.
    If the monarch ever proved themselves to be manifestly unsuitable for the role Parliament is able to swiftly arrange for an abdication and to give the crown to the first acceptable individual in the line of succession.

    It's not like it would be the first time.
    It is a long standing custom that when the current monarch becomes troublesome or too expensive, the dynasty is replaced by immigrants.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    Yougov have an absolute knack for asking the wrong question. It's not whether it's acceptable or not - he can do what he likes - it's whether doing it and publicising the fact of doing it in his first 6 weeks is the act of a directionless nebbish. Analogously if he published a photo of himself on the can with his trousers round his ankles, Yougov would be asking Is it acceptable that the prime minister defecates? Not actually the point.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Andy_JS said:

    What's Starmer going to ban next, I wonder?
    “We are ending the scourge of Wordle to boost British productivity.”
    That would spell disasta, er, disarster.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,249

    Pagan2 said:

    I suspect I’m like millions of others, I think the monarchy - the world’s most generous welfare state - is silly and completely at odds with the values of meritocracy. It is also a cruel life sentence for those born into it. But Chas is a decent bloke, and I struggle really to give much of a shit. Seems to make some people happy, for reasons known only to themselves.

    While I agree with you totally on this what do you replace it with. I think president blair would be a vomit enducing price for most. I really dont like the royals I will say but I do suspect what replaces them will me shall we say even more repugnant
    How would Blair win a Presidential election if he would be vomit-inducing for most?
    All those against him would be too busy throwing up to vote.

    So he’d get a massive majority of votes cast.

    Obvious, really
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    A majority of Brits would rather see Kamala Harris become US President instead of Donald Trump

    Harris: 51%
    Trump: 26%
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1830276581375263080
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    Nigelb said:

    Kaos is fun.
    Recommended.

    Agreed. Watched the fist two episodes last night and thoroughly enjoyed it.
    Just finished it - or rather, the first series.

    Stephen Dillane obviously enjoyed himself a great deal more than he did in Game of Thrones.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Andy_JS said:

    Get Carter just starting on BBC2.

    I do this for a living, so be'ave yourself
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    Removed = fine.
    Destroyed = not fine.
    No one’s talking about destroying it. We’re not barbarians.
  • Am I the only, actual working class person who posts here?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586

    Am I the only, actual working class person who posts here?

    With parents who summer at Sandbanks?
  • HYUFD said:

    A majority of Brits would rather see Kamala Harris become US President instead of Donald Trump

    Harris: 51%
    Trump: 26%
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1830276581375263080

    Least surprising poll to be fair

    Indeed who are the 26% other than Farage and his right wing dinosaurs
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918
    edited September 1
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    But he isn't the monarchy. People can think of him as a nice gossip column topic while not being happy with the monarchy as a political institution, which encourages people to cringe to it and, just as importantly, to the aristocracy and lords.
    William and Kate will be the monarchy in about a decade's time, far better them than another politican as head of state.

    Starmer is about to remove the remaining hereditary aristocrats from the House of Lords
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    On which note the NT want £31 a night to camp on Brownsea island. Ouch.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,918

    HYUFD said:

    A majority of Brits would rather see Kamala Harris become US President instead of Donald Trump

    Harris: 51%
    Trump: 26%
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1830276581375263080

    Least surprising poll to be fair

    Indeed who are the 26% other than Farage and his right wing dinosaurs
    19% for Reform on the same poll, so almost all Trump's UK support comes from Reform voters I expect plus a few rightwing Tories
  • HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    Carnyx said:


    I think I’d prefer a female jack russell called Molly.

    I want Brian Blessed as Head of State.
    Looking at the linky ...

    "The only parts of the public that are the exceptions are in Scotland, which evenly splits 41% in a favour of a monarchy and 43% in favour of an elected head of state, and 18-24 year olds, only a third of whom (35%) want to maintain a monarchy going forwards"
    The Prince of Wales though has a 64% positive rating in Scotland and 48% of 18-24s have a positive view of him too, just 28% negative
    https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/Internal_RoyalFavourability_240815.pdf
    But he isn't the monarchy. People can think of him as a nice gossip column topic while not being happy with the monarchy as a political institution, which encourages people to cringe to it and, just as importantly, to the aristocracy and lords.
    William and Kate will be the monarchy in about a decade's time
    Or next week or 2045 or even never
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,586
    carnforth said:

    On which note the NT want £31 a night to camp on Brownsea island. Ouch.

    Worse, it's per person not per tent.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Ozempic could delay ageing, researchers suggest
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ce81j919gdjo

    This is possibly a very big deal. And it’s almost certainly not even the best GLP1 drug.

    The NHS needs to do a deal with the U.K. pharmas (GSK and AZN) to develop their own (preferably by buying a biotech with one already in development).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    Removed = fine.
    Destroyed = not fine.
    No one’s talking about destroying it. We’re not barbarians.
    I know and the point is he just doesn’t want it, so has removed it. All good.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647

    HYUFD said:

    A majority of Brits would rather see Kamala Harris become US President instead of Donald Trump

    Harris: 51%
    Trump: 26%
    https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1830276581375263080

    Least surprising poll to be fair

    Indeed who are the 26% other than Farage and his right wing dinosaurs
    If that 26% represents Reform's ceiling, that's an awful lot of voters that Farage could pick up.

    Remember the polling from the election - there were only marginal differences between Conservatives, Lib Dems and Labour voters on issues such as Trump, with Reform voters way out on the fringe.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    mercator said:

    HYUFD said:

    Do you think it is acceptable or unacceptable for Keir Starmer to have had the portrait of Margaret Thatcher removed from her former study in Downing Street?

    Labour voters 71% acceptable, LDs 61% acceptable.

    Tory voters 71% unacceptable, Reform 70% unacceptable
    https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/08/30/0367c/2

    Yougov have an absolute knack for asking the wrong question. It's not whether it's acceptable or not - he can do what he likes - it's whether doing it and publicising the fact of doing it in his first 6 weeks is the act of a directionless nebbish. Analogously if he published a photo of himself on the can with his trousers round his ankles, Yougov would be asking Is it acceptable that the prime minister defecates? Not actually the point.
    Did Starmer publicise it?
This discussion has been closed.