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This should move Betfair back to Harris – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    It’s never going to happen because it’s

    1. Unenforceable

    2. Ridiculous

    And

    3. It wouid send Ryanair bankrupt fast as passengers went to airports that didn’t enforce it and also don’t give a fuck about Ryanair coz they don’t have Ryanair routes
    I don't see why it's unenforceable. They just have to make you scan your boarding pass when ordering.
    People will just sneak in vodka or gin as water into departures pre security. And neck it. Or take more pills and powders

    And other airports abroad won’t enforce it. And airports in general will hate it and tell Ryanair to do one - they make so much money from booze

    All they need to do is kick out a few drunken louts before they even get on a plane. As a stern deterrent. Get too lairy and your holiday is cancelled before it even starts

    Problem solved

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419

    mercator said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    Fortunately pro cancer Brits are in a minority.

    Britons tend to support the proposed smoking ban in pub gardens and outdoor restaurants

    Strong support: 35%
    Tend to support: 23%
    Tend to oppose: 17%
    Strong oppose: 18%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1829172165272580618
    Government by opinion poll is a poor way to conduct policy.

    People might just be declaring they don't much care for smoking here, but they don't like the idea of government policing what people do and where they do it either.

    It wouldn't surprise me if Starmer mini-polls everything he does. He's a tedious tactical triangulator and, now he no longer has Sunak to triangulate against, he needs to anchor his moves against something.

    He's in for a shock. And his tanking government approval ratings already show that.
    Well quite. Neither moving Maggie nor banning fags gets me particularly upset, it's the fact that he can't think of anything more interesting and exciting to do to define the mood and aspirations of his government in its first 8 weeks. He'll be introducing COVID testing shortly; winter flu season is on its way and you can't be too careful.
    Yes, and I wouldn't move a portrait of Churchill from the Churchill Room, nor one of Attlee from the Attlee Room or one of Thatcher from the Thatcher Room. And neither would their pictures bother me.

    But, I'm not Starmer.
    But the name Thatcher Room isn't even official. It's not some sort of shrine.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Well Howdy Leon. Nice to see you back.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    This government have nothing in their manifesto and no plan. They have no real mandate due to their low share of the popular vote. To some degree it is like continuity Sunak, it is kind of ok, if things tick along. It is sort of like a conservative government. But then what happens is that they go off on these weird hobby horse excursions, which seem to just come out of nowhere. This is just going to keep happening because they have to find a way to placate the progressive activist element of the labour party. So nothing really changes but misogyny becomes terrorism, smoking is banned absolutely everywhere, low end private schools are boarded up, deplorables are rounded up and banged up in prison for years and outed on vigilante style posts on Linkedin by the Crown Prosecution service etc etc. This is then presented as a plan to defeat the 'snake oil' of right wing populism with 'honesty and delivery'. Of course all it is really doing is securing the rapid extinction of the Labour party, which there feels like an inevitability about. If a European excursion is needed Starmer should be talking to the Danish equivalent Social Democratic Party, not the German one, which is being outpolled by the AfD.
  • Of all the fish-wrapper stories about Labour today - the painting, Rayner clubbing in Ibiza (*), smoking outdoors - Reeves' is the most interesting one, and perhaps the most troublesome.

    If she is right in why that the doctor prioritised her, then imagine being a Jewish patient in that hospital. It was an incredibly naive and stupid thing for her to admit. It needs investigating by the hospital, even if that is fairly pointless, because it is an *incredibly* bad look for them.

    If she is wrong, then it is more than a little egocentric of her. "I'm special because I voted correctly, and the good people see that!!!!"

    (*) Which I have zero issue with. People need to take holidays sometime...

    I think you mean Jess Phillips, not Reeves.
    There is also the landlord with Ants everywhere https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg1j0lv1go
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049

    Of all the fish-wrapper stories about Labour today - the painting, Rayner clubbing in Ibiza (*), smoking outdoors - Phillips' is the most interesting one, and perhaps the most troublesome.

    If she is right in why that the doctor prioritised her, then imagine being a Jewish patient in that hospital. It was an incredibly naive and stupid thing for her to admit. It needs investigating by the hospital, even if that is fairly pointless, because it is an *incredibly* bad look for them.

    If she is wrong, then it is more than a little egocentric of her. "I'm special because I voted correctly, and the good people see that!!!!"

    (*) Which I have zero issue with. People need to take holidays sometime...

    (Edit for my own stupidity)

    Jess Phillips egocentric. That’s her.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,070

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,165
    Driver said:

    Leon said:

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    It’s never going to happen because it’s

    1. Unenforceable

    2. Ridiculous

    And

    3. It wouid send Ryanair bankrupt fast as passengers went to airports that didn’t enforce it and also don’t give a fuck about Ryanair coz they don’t have Ryanair routes
    I don't see why it's unenforceable. They just have to make you scan your boarding pass when ordering.
    They should just breathalyse suspected drinkers at the gate and refuse boarding.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    For those unacquainted with super yachts, I am in Tivat on Kotor Bay in Montenegro (on assignment for the gazette) and 500m from Porto Montenegro, which is an insane collision of Italian mafiosi and Russian oligarchs and South American drug lords all eating £200 steaks in absurdly overpriced restaurants with their 19 year old “wives”

    https://www.portomontenegro.com/

    They come here because it’s “just” outside the EU yet it uses the euro and feels like Monte Carlo etc
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    CatMan said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
    We need to weed out this misuse.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Wait till weed is legalised.

    Absolutely no contradiction will be seen in that, whatever.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    CatMan said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
    I hope you're being sarcastic, as it won't.

    And smoking cannabis around kids should be treated as child abuse. Ditto cigarettes.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,049
    Leon said:

    For those unacquainted with super yachts, I am in Tivat on Kotor Bay in Montenegro (on assignment for the gazette) and 500m from Porto Montenegro, which is an insane collision of Italian mafiosi and Russian oligarchs and South American drug lords all eating £200 steaks in absurdly overpriced restaurants with their 19 year old “wives”

    https://www.portomontenegro.com/

    They come here because it’s “just” outside the EU yet it uses the euro and feels like Monte Carlo etc

    Gorgeous part of the world. Been there twice. Been to Kotor and Herceg Novi. Went through Tivat on a coach trip to Lake Skardar. Never got to see the side of Tivat you are seeing. I just want to go back now.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,325
    Leon said:

    For those unacquainted with super yachts, I am in Tivat on Kotor Bay in Montenegro (on assignment for the gazette) and 500m from Porto Montenegro, which is an insane collision of Italian mafiosi and Russian oligarchs and South American drug lords all eating £200 steaks in absurdly overpriced restaurants with their 19 year old “wives”

    https://www.portomontenegro.com/

    They come here because it’s “just” outside the EU yet it uses the euro and feels like Monte Carlo etc

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scott-King's_Modern_Europe
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Scott_xP said:

    @thewayafter

    First they called Esther McVey a fucking idiot
    And I did not speak out
    Because she was a fucking idiot.

    Did you call out anyone for calling Brexiteers Nazis over the last few years?
    It's amazing he still hasn't rechannelled his anger yet, even though we have a crypto-socialist government in charge now, and we're getting closer to the EU.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    Maybe he and Starmer could both give each other a reach around.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872
    Apparently, Montenegro are trying to diversify, wanting more British tourists.

    https://travelweekly.co.uk/news/tourism/montenegro-hails-extremely-important-british-travel-agents

    I wonder if they have nice well-marked hiking trails and, if so, whether there is a good moderate season.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Hello there.

    Should this not be Room 101 not Room 301?

    The folder seems to say Seoul Guest so I was going with South Korea, but the Palm Trees perhaps say Torquay.

    Dodgy money and palm trees? North Cyprus, Jersey, or Mar-a-Lago. Or the ME.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    @MattW Just to respond to some comments you made a few days ago about EPC's. I have a bit of professional awareness about these. My objection is to the one size fits all system. Perhaps this is inevitable but buildings, particularly those over 100 years old are very complex. Imposing these solutions is going to be disruptive and in many cases ineffective and counterproductive. I understand though that people may see it differently where there isn't this issue of building preservation coming in to play. Also some crudeness will come in to play when trying to devise a workable system to improve basic building standards in rented accommodation.

    The UK is not the only example of these standards having perverse impacts. Our house in Finland is over 100 years old and was written off by all the surveyors as effectively zero value. But there is nothing wrong with it. The insulation is ok, the bills are the same as any other house. We just had the metal roof reconditioned, over 100 years old, no holes in it - newer roofs have a circa 20 year design life. We have asked over and over again why people think there is a problem with it and all they can come up with is something about it 'not being up to spec'. We've gone on to have all the pipes and painting done, installed 2x inverter heat pumps and there is no reason why it wouldn't last for another hundred years, the bills and energy use is not that different to a newbuild.

  • FffsFffs Posts: 76

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    Maybe he and Starmer could both give each other a reach around.
    Wait a second… how would that even work?!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    How much tinfoil do I need for my hat on this one?

    "An explosion at a munitions factory in Troisdorf, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, left two men seriously injured, APA reports citing German media.

    Police and firefighters are responding with a large-scale operation, and rescue helicopters are reportedly on the scene."

    https://en.apa.az/europe/munitions-factory-explosion-in-germany-leaves-two-men-seriously-injured-446700
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,419
    edited August 30
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Hello there.

    Should this not be Room 101 not Room 301?

    The folder seems to say Seoul Guest so I was going with South Korea, but the Palm Trees perhaps say Torquay.

    Dodgy money and palm trees? North Cyprus, Jersey, or Mar-a-Lago. Or the ME.
    Channel Islands.

    Edit: and, on checking, Mann. THere is even an introduced species whose vernacular name is Manx Palm.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    edited August 30
    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872
    Fffs said:

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    Maybe he and Starmer could both give each other a reach around.
    Wait a second… how would that even work?!
    Double joints. Or mirrors.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,170
    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for Meade
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    Why do you think she left out socialists and trade unionists?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223
    He’s back then.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,170
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    I’ve been dying to say:

    Leon is BACK!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,657
    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    If you are talking about @Leon then I am pleased to see him posting again as he makes a unique contribution to this amazing forum, even if he upsets some
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I'm wiping the slate clean until he does something stupid again.

    It should be all of (fx: checks watch...) two days.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,223

    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I'm wiping the slate clean until he does something stupid again.

    It should be all of (fx: checks watch...) two days.
    We need a counter on the site: “days since last Leon incident.”
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,314

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for Meade
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    Why do you think she left out socialists and trade unionists?
    That's covered by 'they'.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,070

    CatMan said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
    I hope you're being sarcastic, as it won't.

    And smoking cannabis around kids should be treated as child abuse. Ditto cigarettes.
    Yes I am. Prohibition doesn't work.

    You can get vapes that eliminate the smell though. It's what I would use.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,903

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    She's comparing a smoking ban to the murder of six million Jews, I mean anyone who thinks that lacks the intelligence God gave pistachio nuts.
    Where's her common sense?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I actually got messages from PB-ers saying “please come back it’s so boring now”. True story

    So I had a look and you were all talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations and it seemed normal if a bit dull. Then I checked 4 days later and you were STILL talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations

    On the other hand, it did seem quite calm and soothing
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,166
    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
    We need to weed out this misuse.
    Sounds like more of a hash.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,165

    Leon said:

    Greetings


    I’ve been dying to say:

    Leon is BACK!
    It was nice while it lasted.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    The average Montenegrin seems to have a much nicer life than the average Briton

    Aren’t they meant to be the poor ex commie easterners that lost the Cold War?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    ydoethur said:

    CatMan said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Depends I quite often avoid pubs where smokers are outside because I don't want to suffer their smoking..
    The hideous 'sweet' smell of vapes on the High Street is much more of an issue atm for me.

    Incidentally, people in our village are complaining that neighbours are smoking cannabis outside in the street and garden, and it is coming in through open windows (because of summer...).
    Need to make Cannabis illegal. That'll sort it out.
    We need to weed out this misuse.
    Sounds like more of a hash.
    A feeble attempt to crack a drug joke.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Leon said:

    The average Montenegrin seems to have a much nicer life than the average Briton

    Aren’t they meant to be the poor ex commie easterners that lost the Cold War?

    Montenegro was part of Yugoslavia, which was non-aligned in the Cold War.
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141

    Quakering, Pennsylvania.

    My genius is awesome.

    Should be doing porridge for that.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811

    Quakering, Pennsylvania.

    My genius is awesome.

    Should be doing porridge for that.
    That's not the sort of thing you say in a friendly society.
  • theProletheProle Posts: 1,228
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Welcome back.
    Thanks. I did say I’d pop back when travelling to post annoying photos

    Can anyone guess where I am?

    The photo is generic but here’s a clue: I’m about 3 minutes walk from possibly the largest concentration of dubious wealth in the world
    Vatican city?
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840
    Why have the BTL comments reversed so the oldest one is now at the top. It's a bloody nuisance.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    She's comparing a smoking ban to the murder of six million Jews, I mean anyone who thinks that lacks the intelligence God gave pistachio nuts.
    Where's her common sense?
    The Jess Philips story is MUCH more disturbing. She’s happily admitting that pro Palestinian people get preferential treatment on the NHS. And she doesn’t even seem embarrassed by it

    She should be sacked by Monday

    Esther mc veys tweet is just bad taste
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,994

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    Our policing is done by consent, fewer and fewer are consenting. That gets to critical mass and the goverment have a problem. Many people I know and I include myself will not cooperate at all with the police. We won't say a word without a solicitor present even if we are the victim.....something NightJack recommended
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    Didn't we just have a Header wondering about what was happening with the Weirdo Cat Hater?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I actually got messages from PB-ers saying “please come back it’s so boring now”. True story

    So I had a look and you were all talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations and it seemed normal if a bit dull. Then I checked 4 days later and you were STILL talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations

    On the other hand, it did seem quite calm and soothing
    If I had known that I would have sent a message its so much better with out you please stay away
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I actually got messages from PB-ers saying “please come back it’s so boring now”. True story

    So I had a look and you were all talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations and it seemed normal if a bit dull. Then I checked 4 days later and you were STILL talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations

    On the other hand, it did seem quite calm and soothing
    If I had known that I would have sent a message its so much better with out you please stay away
    Truth is he has found no other audience so he has come back like new variant covid
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    I stand by my prior observation that - alongside Ukraine - the women of Montenegro are the most beautiful in the world. Rebecca West mentions the beauty of the Montenegrins in “Black Lamb, Grey Falcon”

    Indeed the Montenegrins might just win because they are cheerier and smiliier. God knows why the Ukrainians are so bloody gloomy and grim faced they should get over it
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    She's comparing a smoking ban to the murder of six million Jews, I mean anyone who thinks that lacks the intelligence God gave pistachio nuts.
    Where's her common sense?
    The Jess Philips story is MUCH more disturbing. She’s happily admitting that pro Palestinian people get preferential treatment on the NHS. And she doesn’t even seem embarrassed by it

    She should be sacked by Monday

    Esther mc veys tweet is just bad taste
    The "dumb as a rock" epithet for Kamala Harris (copyright far right twitter) would work well here for Esther McVey.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,724
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Enjoying your holibobs?
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    Leon said:

    I stand by my prior observation that - alongside Ukraine - the women of Montenegro are the most beautiful in the world. Rebecca West mentions the beauty of the Montenegrins in “Black Lamb, Grey Falcon”

    Indeed the Montenegrins might just win because they are cheerier and smiliier. God knows why the Ukrainians are so bloody gloomy and grim faced they should get over it

    Wow the ukrainians are gloomy and grim faced and should get over it....you don't think that might be a little to do with your boyfriend trying to invade their country causing lots of deaths, rape and torture.....perhaps you should get a time machine back to the 1940's in belsen and tell all those jewish people to cheer up to?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,897
    Leon said:

    The average Montenegrin seems to have a much nicer life than the average Briton

    Aren’t they meant to be the poor ex commie easterners that lost the Cold War?

    Rex Stout's great detective Nero Wolfe was a Montenegrin. I rather think this wonderful body of work is less well known in the UK than it ought to be.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872
    Pagan2 said:

    Our policing is done by consent, fewer and fewer are consenting. That gets to critical mass and the goverment have a problem. Many people I know and I include myself will not cooperate at all with the police. We won't say a word without a solicitor present even if we are the victim.....something NightJack recommended

    In some jurisdictions, e.g the US, juries are forbidden from drawing inference from post-arrest silence. It must not be mentioned in court.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,970
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Yay, welcome back.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    Lots of people are rediscovering exactly what Labour governments are like.

    Some of us never forgot.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    edited August 30
    darkage said:

    @MattW Just to respond to some comments you made a few days ago about EPC's. I have a bit of professional awareness about these. My objection is to the one size fits all system. Perhaps this is inevitable but buildings, particularly those over 100 years old are very complex. Imposing these solutions is going to be disruptive and in many cases ineffective and counterproductive. I understand though that people may see it differently where there isn't this issue of building preservation coming in to play. Also some crudeness will come in to play when trying to devise a workable system to improve basic building standards in rented accommodation.

    The UK is not the only example of these standards having perverse impacts. Our house in Finland is over 100 years old and was written off by all the surveyors as effectively zero value. But there is nothing wrong with it. The insulation is ok, the bills are the same as any other house. We just had the metal roof reconditioned, over 100 years old, no holes in it - newer roofs have a circa 20 year design life. We have asked over and over again why people think there is a problem with it and all they can come up with is something about it 'not being up to spec'. We've gone on to have all the pipes and painting done, installed 2x inverter heat pumps and there is no reason why it wouldn't last for another hundred years, the bills and energy use is not that different to a newbuild.

    I concur with most of that; my view is that a normal EPC which is designed to be cheap and available for all at £50 (vs the £300-400 it costs for a full one as required eg for a self-build with the Planning Application, which is a design model validated after the build) has met the basic need for perhaps 90% of properties. And that is what we needed, rather than a Grand Complication.

    (For others the method for the full one is called SAP “Standard Assessment Procedure”, and the one for the EPC is RD-SAP Reduced Data “Standard Assessment Procedure”.)

    As I see it EPC is OK for traditionally built properties and many others - I have seen eg Passive Houses scoring a C - and is pretty reliable for these, especially for comparison even if the technical data is off. It falls down on real detail such as heat loss via ventilation and air leaks, but that is Reduced Data for you.

    The full transparency of everything has been really good here (eg Germany did not even publish them when I last looked), and comparisons have made a real difference to awareness in practice so that EPC level now impacts purchase and rental price; we have been way ahead on that. A 'standard' method across Europe has been very valuable.

    I think in general regulation of rentals via these has been a real boon, even if my purist head would like something more complex / accurate. It's what we have and it has done much of the job we needed.

    The thing that most concerns me is the assumptions they make, which means that when I renovate a property I have to maintain a photographic evidence file. When I renovate I aim high enough to be able to absorb any new quirks in the formula that may emerge.

    In most cases I think a full SAP can be done if needed, and for rental regs we have exemptions available for uneconomic improvements or listed buildings.

    For the first renovation I did I got hold of a copy of the RD-SAP software and built my own model, to understand the quirks.

    Tx for the reply.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 10,014
    carnforth said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Our policing is done by consent, fewer and fewer are consenting. That gets to critical mass and the goverment have a problem. Many people I know and I include myself will not cooperate at all with the police. We won't say a word without a solicitor present even if we are the victim.....something NightJack recommended

    In some jurisdictions, e.g the US, juries are forbidden from drawing inference from post-arrest silence. It must not be mentioned in court.
    Silence should never be used as evidence in any proper court of law, the prosecution should have to prove guilt on the available evidence
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331
    edited August 30

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for Meade
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    Why do you think she left out socialists and trade unionists?
    This is the version she should have quoted:

    https://halfmanhalfbiscuit.uk/four-lads-who-shook-the-wirral-1998/turn-blind-eye/

    They came for Eamonn Holmes and I think I’m right in saying I applauded
    They came for the fire-eaters, but I wasn’t a fire-eater so I did nothing
    They came for Dani Behr, I said she’s over there, behind the wardrobe
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited August 30

    Of all the fish-wrapper stories about Labour today - the painting, Rayner clubbing in Ibiza (*), smoking outdoors - Reeves' is the most interesting one, and perhaps the most troublesome.

    If she is right in why that the doctor prioritised her, then imagine being a Jewish patient in that hospital. It was an incredibly naive and stupid thing for her to admit. It needs investigating by the hospital, even if that is fairly pointless, because it is an *incredibly* bad look for them.

    If she is wrong, then it is more than a little egocentric of her. "I'm special because I voted correctly, and the good people see that!!!!"

    (*) Which I have zero issue with. People need to take holidays sometime...

    I think you mean Jess Phillips, not Reeves.
    There is also the landlord with Ants everywhere https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg1j0lv1go
    I think that is a big story in that Starmer will make an example of him.

    To be fair, one of my former landlords had no idea how much of an arsehole the letting agent was being to us, and recompensed us generously once she became aware.

    But ultimately it's your responsibility as a landlord to check up on these things, easily done by having a quick look through Google reviews as a start. He will have to work very hard to convince the whips that he had no idea.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,994
    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    No, I didn't vote for them either but I'm enjoying all the Conservative inclined on here go steadily unhinged now we have a Labour Government for the first time in nearly a decade and a half.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,844
    edited August 30
    Too many words... just omit the last three.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,913

    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    Lots of people are rediscovering exactly what Labour governments are like.

    Some of us never forgot.
    To be fair, quite a few trade union members are on the Bolly now. (The peasants!)

    It's odd that the now truly unpopular Blair has been the only leader to actually be able to deliver some semblance of sensible government in Labour colours. (Mainly of course based on Major's little discussed economic boom)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Leon said:

    Greetings


    Your photography is improving a little.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,640

    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    Lots of people are rediscovering exactly what Labour governments are like.

    Some of us never forgot.
    We should have a prediction competition on here on 'What taxes will Rachel increase, by how much and any new taxes'
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,955
    ydoethur said:

    Quakering, Pennsylvania.

    My genius is awesome.

    Should be doing porridge for that.
    That's not the sort of thing you say in a friendly society.
    Just stop stirring. Let the pot boil.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,840

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    That's highly likely, though if you're suggesting that the Government is about to be torched by the wrath of the chain smokers then you're somewhat wide of the mark. Smoking's an utterly filthy habit that also inflicts ruinous expense on the country, through the need to deal with the addicts in our clapped out healthcare system as they fall ill. You're likely to find at least as many people who hate the choking stench of bloody cigarettes and are delighted not to have to suffer the anti-social habit in a wider variety of places as are up in arms about having their freedom to use the things in public further curtailed.

    The essential problem with the Government, and what's going to do for it if Starmer isn't very careful, is that it represents - in the fiscal dimension - continuity Conservatism. It was elected on a platform of renewed austerity, it's going to deliver renewed austerity, and the various Labour rampers from before the election who insisted that we were getting a real alternative and bright, sunlit uplands are going to be made to look very silly. That doesn't mean that Labour isn't a distinct improvement from what came before - the party doesn't spend all its team ripping itself to pieces over culture wars trivia, ministers show promising early signs of basic competence, and it displays at least a passing interest in the welfare and interests of people under the age of 65 - but nonetheless the public are utterly exhausted of paying more to get less and repeated false claims of jam tomorrow, and the strategy of blaming Sunak and Truss for everything is unlikely to work beyond the next few months, and another long, wet, miserable Winter whilst taxes go up and public services continue to crumble at the same time. If Labour isn't behind in the polls by Christmas then it will be down to the outright toxicity of the opposition, rather than any achievements which it might be able to claim.

    Clearly the new Government is betting the farm on economic growth riding to the rescue and providing the tax revenues needed to, at a minimum, make decent progress on repairing the knackered health service and alleviating poverty before the next election. If they are still exhorting us to more blood, toil, tears and sweat, and to be patient until about 2050 or something, come that point then God help them.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    I stand by my prior observation that - alongside Ukraine - the women of Montenegro are the most beautiful in the world. Rebecca West mentions the beauty of the Montenegrins in “Black Lamb, Grey Falcon”

    Indeed the Montenegrins might just win because they are cheerier and smiliier. God knows why the Ukrainians are so bloody gloomy and grim faced they should get over it

    Wow the ukrainians are gloomy and grim faced and should get over it....you don't think that might be a little to do with your boyfriend trying to invade their country causing lots of deaths, rape and torture.....perhaps you should get a time machine back to the 1940's in belsen and tell all those jewish people to cheer up to?
    Hasn’t crossed your mind that I might be somewhat tongue in cheek? HAVE YOU FORGOTTEN ME THAT QUICKLY??
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,955
    edited August 30
    Eabhal said:

    Of all the fish-wrapper stories about Labour today - the painting, Rayner clubbing in Ibiza (*), smoking outdoors - Reeves' is the most interesting one, and perhaps the most troublesome.

    If she is right in why that the doctor prioritised her, then imagine being a Jewish patient in that hospital. It was an incredibly naive and stupid thing for her to admit. It needs investigating by the hospital, even if that is fairly pointless, because it is an *incredibly* bad look for them.

    If she is wrong, then it is more than a little egocentric of her. "I'm special because I voted correctly, and the good people see that!!!!"

    (*) Which I have zero issue with. People need to take holidays sometime...

    I think you mean Jess Phillips, not Reeves.
    There is also the landlord with Ants everywhere https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg1j0lv1go
    I think that is a big story in that Starmer will make an example of him.

    To be fair, one of my former landlords had no idea how much of an arsehole the letting agent was being to us, and recompensed us generously once she became aware.

    But ultimately it's your responsibility as a landlord to check up on these things, easily done by having a quick look through Google reviews as a start. He will have to work very hard to convince the whips that he had no idea.
    Also interesting that the BBC are picking through Labour MP backgrounds. Could be some fun scandals to come given we've rather exhausted the Tory supply after 14 years.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,897
    edited August 30
    Pagan2 said:

    carnforth said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Our policing is done by consent, fewer and fewer are consenting. That gets to critical mass and the goverment have a problem. Many people I know and I include myself will not cooperate at all with the police. We won't say a word without a solicitor present even if we are the victim.....something NightJack recommended

    In some jurisdictions, e.g the US, juries are forbidden from drawing inference from post-arrest silence. It must not be mentioned in court.
    Silence should never be used as evidence in any proper court of law, the prosecution should have to prove guilt on the available evidence
    Pagan2 said:

    carnforth said:

    Pagan2 said:

    Our policing is done by consent, fewer and fewer are consenting. That gets to critical mass and the goverment have a problem. Many people I know and I include myself will not cooperate at all with the police. We won't say a word without a solicitor present even if we are the victim.....something NightJack recommended

    In some jurisdictions, e.g the US, juries are forbidden from drawing inference from post-arrest silence. It must not be mentioned in court.
    Silence should never be used as evidence in any proper court of law, the prosecution should have to prove guilt on the available evidence
    English law is currently in the middle. Previously silence in interviews could be of no evidential relevance; now silence is not evidence of anything specific but a jury may use it as part of the totality which assists them in deciding if the defendant is guilty.

    Usually silence is still best, saying something like 'I am not answering questions at this stage on legal advice; I shall make a full statement to you once any case against me has been fully disclosed as I am completely innocent of any crime. Until I know the case against me I can't really help you can I?' so that the jury hears a reasoned account of your silence.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731
    Well, I’m happy tp see Leon back.

    However I’d really like to see Ms Cyclefree posting again.

    And I’m happy(ish) with the Labour government, my reservation so far being Winter Fuel Allowance. Mrs C and I don’t really need it but we’re aware that people do, and we think the Government has handled the issue badly.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,689

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for Meade
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    Why do you think she left out socialists and trade unionists?
    This is the version she should have quoted:

    https://halfmanhalfbiscuit.uk/four-lads-who-shook-the-wirral-1998/turn-blind-eye/

    They came for Eamonn Holmes and I think I’m right in saying I applauded
    They came for the fire-eaters, but I wasn’t a fire-eater so I did nothing
    They came for Dani Behr, I said she’s over there, behind the wardrobe
    "During my lifetime I have dedicated myself to the struggle for the right of an Englishman to have a fag with his pint if he's outside. It is an ideal I hope to live to see preserved. But if needs be it's an ideal for which I am prepared to die."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    Back at ya.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    mercator said:

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
    The company I worked for at the time of 9/11 had a 'wow room', which displayed our products in what was actually a waiting room. I was on a bulletin board (Mono, for those that care/remember), when a poster said that a plane had crashed into the Twin Towers. I went into the wow room, which had many TVs in, and turned the TVs onto live news. I therefore saw the second plane crash happen essentially all around me.

    A day or so later, I was asked to announce the couple of minutes silence that was held outside the company. I have zero idea why I, rather than a more senior manager was asked, but it is something I will always remember with sadness.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,300
    Jeez.

    BERMAN: Last night you posted a clip from Ms Teen US 2007 -- Caitlin Upton. When you posted that, were you aware she thought about committing suicide for the attention that received?

    JD VANCE: No, certainly not.

    B: Would you like to apologize?

    V: I'm not going to apologize

    https://x.com/atrupar/status/1829510846885622191

    Misogyny off the scale, with this ticket.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,731
    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    For those unacquainted with super yachts, I am in Tivat on Kotor Bay in Montenegro (on assignment for the gazette) and 500m from Porto Montenegro, which is an insane collision of Italian mafiosi and Russian oligarchs and South American drug lords all eating £200 steaks in absurdly overpriced restaurants with their 19 year old “wives”

    https://www.portomontenegro.com/

    They come here because it’s “just” outside the EU yet it uses the euro and feels like Monte Carlo etc

    Gorgeous part of the world. Been there twice. Been to Kotor and Herceg Novi. Went through Tivat on a coach trip to Lake Skardar. Never got to see the side of Tivat you are seeing. I just want to go back now.
    Granddaughters Two and Three, both attractive 18 year olds are currently headed towards the Adriatic region. I look forward to their Instagram photos with a mixture of trepidation and interest.
    As do their parents.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    Leon said:

    tlg86 said:

    He’s back then.

    I actually got messages from PB-ers saying “please come back it’s so boring now”. True story

    So I had a look and you were all talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations and it seemed normal if a bit dull. Then I checked 4 days later and you were STILL talking about Welsh speed limits and housing regulations

    On the other hand, it did seem quite calm and soothing
    Were these PBers Eadric and SeanT? ;)
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,354
    edited August 30

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    Top and second income decile Tory seats might be middle England, but they are not median England.

    The second decile specifically returned a small Tory absolute majority in their 65 seats. In 2024, after all that went before. You are in a much more niche bubble than you care to imagine because your second decile type political soulmates like Marquee, MaxPB, Sean F etc. are much more common on here than in real life.

    And Labour played the median, putting over 6% on their median constituency vote share, whilst only 1.6% on their national vote share. Which means your mile wide inch deep claim is not quite true - yes, it's a mile wide, but it's a good foot or two deep at the key point - more shallow end of the main pool than paddling pool.
  • mercatormercator Posts: 815
    Nigelb said:

    mercator said:

    stodge said:

    Good evening

    I am not phased by Starmer removing Thatcher's portrait and support the smoking ban

    However, Starmer and Reeves mean testing the WFA was a complete surprise, and whilst the merits are obvious (as a pensioner I do not need it but very many more pensioners do) but the optics and politics of doing it at the same time as awarding well paid train drivers an inflation busting pay rise are terrible

    Starmer courting the EU is sensible and much on the same lines as Sunak before him, but going from improving our relationship with the EU to seeking to re-join is a huge leap and many years away

    Starmer and labour are following a pattern of authoritarian government and certainly influenced by the unions, especially with Rayners 'workers rights' and frankly I have not seen anything to improve growth, even their planning and housebuilding proposals

    The measures Starmers has announced seem to have public approval, and yet his approval ratings are falling and it remains to be seen just what happens to the governments popularity after the October statement

    Early days, but on the big issues I remain underwhelmed by Starmer and his doom and gloom, with more to follow, attitude to the UK when in fact the economy is performing well at present, but then that is Sunak and Hunts legacy

    Here's my summary of the LAB government so far:

    It's shyte! 👿
    It's amazing how many Tories have taken such a dislike to the Labour Government - yeah, right.

    Attacking a Labour Government is so much easier than having to defend a Conservative administration which in the end went down to the biggest defeat in the party's history but there you go.
    I truly admire how you are working through this. Just bargaining, depression and acceptance to go.
    Back at ya.
    Nope.. Catastrophic Tory defeat has been baked in for the last 3 years. SKS failure to live up to low expectations is still news.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 5,019

    mercator said:

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
    The company I worked for at the time of 9/11 had a 'wow room', which displayed our products in what was actually a waiting room. I was on a bulletin board (Mono, for those that care/remember), when a poster said that a plane had crashed into the Twin Towers. I went into the wow room, which had many TVs in, and turned the TVs onto live news. I therefore saw the second plane crash happen essentially all around me.

    A day or so later, I was asked to announce the couple of minutes silence that was held outside the company. I have zero idea why I, rather than a more senior manager was asked, but it is something I will always remember with sadness.
    Ah, mono, those were the days...

    I was in Cambridge that day with a friend from Oop North. At the time I was subscribed to a service with my mobile network that sent text messages for breaking news - the first message I got on it was along the lines of "second plane hits Twin Towers, terrorism suspected", and my immediate reaction was "thank you, Sherlock" (I was very young). I wasn't planning on taking my Walkman with me (because, you know, I was supposed to spend all day being sociable with my friend) but for some reason I did, and spent most of the day resenting the weight I was dragging with me - but I was glued to it the rest of the day as we travelled home.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    pigeon said:

    FPT

    Just passed The Cricketeers. A popular pub, near Petersfield.

    Massive blackboard sign on the main road outside. It reads: "Watch out, the fun police are out to get you."

    Cut-through. This government might plumb new depths of unpopularity. And rapidly.

    That's highly likely, though if you're suggesting that the Government is about to be torched by the wrath of the chain smokers then you're somewhat wide of the mark. Smoking's an utterly filthy habit that also inflicts ruinous expense on the country, through the need to deal with the addicts in our clapped out healthcare system as they fall ill. You're likely to find at least as many people who hate the choking stench of bloody cigarettes and are delighted not to have to suffer the anti-social habit in a wider variety of places as are up in arms about having their freedom to use the things in public further curtailed.

    The essential problem with the Government, and what's going to do for it if Starmer isn't very careful, is that it represents - in the fiscal dimension - continuity Conservatism. It was elected on a platform of renewed austerity, it's going to deliver renewed austerity, and the various Labour rampers from before the election who insisted that we were getting a real alternative and bright, sunlit uplands are going to be made to look very silly. That doesn't mean that Labour isn't a distinct improvement from what came before - the party doesn't spend all its team ripping itself to pieces over culture wars trivia, ministers show promising early signs of basic competence, and it displays at least a passing interest in the welfare and interests of people under the age of 65 - but nonetheless the public are utterly exhausted of paying more to get less and repeated false claims of jam tomorrow, and the strategy of blaming Sunak and Truss for everything is unlikely to work beyond the next few months, and another long, wet, miserable Winter whilst taxes go up and public services continue to crumble at the same time. If Labour isn't behind in the polls by Christmas then it will be down to the outright toxicity of the opposition, rather than any achievements which it might be able to claim.

    Clearly the new Government is betting the farm on economic growth riding to the rescue and providing the tax revenues needed to, at a minimum, make decent progress on repairing the knackered health service and alleviating poverty before the next election. If they are still exhorting us to more blood, toil, tears and sweat, and to be patient until about 2050 or something, come that point then God help them.
    Labour are going to get destroyed on migration/asylum, because they have no answers and they are emotionally incapable of addressing the issue rigorously. Unless Starmer gets a Falklands-style miracle, he will be one term and gone

    His polling is already down the toilet and it’s been TWO MONTHS
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196
    carnforth said:

    Fffs said:

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    Maybe he and Starmer could both give each other a reach around.
    Wait a second… how would that even work?!
    Double joints. Or mirrors.
    From my teenage years

    Big bottle of Coke, hip flask sized bottle of vodka/Jack Daniels, merge the two.... Walk into Reading festival etc* with a smile, carrying Coke bottle.

    *Seem to recall that it was John Major's government who made it a legal requirement to allow soft drinks into venues - there were some nasty dehydration incidents, with venues charging even for tap water.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,196

    How much tinfoil do I need for my hat on this one?

    "An explosion at a munitions factory in Troisdorf, North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, left two men seriously injured, APA reports citing German media.

    Police and firefighters are responding with a large-scale operation, and rescue helicopters are reportedly on the scene."

    https://en.apa.az/europe/munitions-factory-explosion-in-germany-leaves-two-men-seriously-injured-446700

    They've been pushing hard to increase production across Europe.

    This is traditionally associated in the explosives industry with RUDs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    Driver said:

    mercator said:

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
    The company I worked for at the time of 9/11 had a 'wow room', which displayed our products in what was actually a waiting room. I was on a bulletin board (Mono, for those that care/remember), when a poster said that a plane had crashed into the Twin Towers. I went into the wow room, which had many TVs in, and turned the TVs onto live news. I therefore saw the second plane crash happen essentially all around me.

    A day or so later, I was asked to announce the couple of minutes silence that was held outside the company. I have zero idea why I, rather than a more senior manager was asked, but it is something I will always remember with sadness.
    Ah, mono, those were the days...

    I was in Cambridge that day with a friend from Oop North. At the time I was subscribed to a service with my mobile network that sent text messages for breaking news - the first message I got on it was along the lines of "second plane hits Twin Towers, terrorism suspected", and my immediate reaction was "thank you, Sherlock" (I was very young). I wasn't planning on taking my Walkman with me (because, you know, I was supposed to spend all day being sociable with my friend) but for some reason I did, and spent most of the day resenting the weight I was dragging with me - but I was glued to it the rest of the day as we travelled home.
    I was just getting ready to go to uni for the first time. I was upstairs packing, put my TV on to check the cricket scores, and saw the plane hit the second tower.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,139
    edited August 30
    That story is a paradigm for our politics. No matter how bad the Conservatives have been, Labour are several degrees worse.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    For those unacquainted with super yachts, I am in Tivat on Kotor Bay in Montenegro (on assignment for the gazette) and 500m from Porto Montenegro, which is an insane collision of Italian mafiosi and Russian oligarchs and South American drug lords all eating £200 steaks in absurdly overpriced restaurants with their 19 year old “wives”

    https://www.portomontenegro.com/

    They come here because it’s “just” outside the EU yet it uses the euro and feels like Monte Carlo etc

    Gorgeous part of the world. Been there twice. Been to Kotor and Herceg Novi. Went through Tivat on a coach trip to Lake Skardar. Never got to see the side of Tivat you are seeing. I just want to go back now.
    Granddaughters Two and Three, both attractive 18 year olds are currently headed towards the Adriatic region. I look forward to their Instagram photos with a mixture of trepidation and interest.
    As do their parents.
    Hope they have a great time

    Kotor Bay, besides having beautiful women, must be one of THE most beautiful places on earth

    I cannot think of anywhere on the Med that matches it, apart from Pelion in Greece (which is also spectacular)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,811
    mercator said:

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
    From her screwing in the tabloids, to screwing over the tabloids.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,872

    carnforth said:

    Fffs said:

    Overwhelming number of Brits want pissheads banned from airports.

    Ryanair CEO Michael O'Leary has proposed a two-drink per passenger limit at airports

    Support: 62%

    Oppose: 24%


    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1828845526168518773

    Maybe he and Starmer could both give each other a reach around.
    Wait a second… how would that even work?!
    Double joints. Or mirrors.
    From my teenage years

    Big bottle of Coke, hip flask sized bottle of vodka/Jack Daniels, merge the two.... Walk into Reading festival etc* with a smile, carrying Coke bottle.

    *Seem to recall that it was John Major's government who made it a legal requirement to allow soft drinks into venues - there were some nasty dehydration incidents, with venues charging even for tap water.
    Sadly, too much water was a problem too:

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Leah_Betts

    This was a huge story at the time.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,166
    edited August 30
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Esther McVey MP is getting criticised for this.

    "Esther McVey
    @EstherMcVey1

    First they came for the Communists
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a communist
    Then they came for the Jews
    And I did not speak out
    Because I was not a Jew
    Then they came for me
    And there was no one left
    To speak out for me

    Pertinent words re Starmer’s smoking ban

    7:20 PM · Aug 29, 2024
    6.4M Views"

    https://x.com/EstherMcVey1/status/1829222646317265152

    She's comparing a smoking ban to the murder of six million Jews, I mean anyone who thinks that lacks the intelligence God gave pistachio nuts.
    Where's her common sense?
    The Jess Philips story is MUCH more disturbing. She’s happily admitting that pro Palestinian people get preferential treatment on the NHS. And she doesn’t even seem embarrassed by it

    She should be sacked by Monday

    Esther mc veys tweet is just bad taste
    Have we done Jas Athwal story yet?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyg1j0lv1go
  • guybrushguybrush Posts: 257
    Welcome back Leon. PB has survived without you. I may have preferred it :p
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,713
    Fishing said:

    That story is a paradigm for our politics. No matter how bad the Conservatives have been, Labour are several degrees worse.
    People will be embarrassed to admit they voted Labour in years to come.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    On Starmer, I have also noticed a huge lack of enthusiasm from my lefty friends. The really lefty ones actively dislike him, “fucking Tory, robbing the old, austerity all over again”, and the Blairite centrists seem…. Disappointed. It’s all shrugs and “meh” and “maybe it will get better, but I dunno”

    I guess you could argue that this is good. He will benefit from low expectations, and that could be true

    However, it’s also become quickly apparent that he is very easy to dislike. The thin, pursed disapproving lips. The puritanical Wokeness which he seems to actively promote. The total lack of any sense of humour at all, like a prototype robot made of 60 year old spam
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,512
    Driver said:

    mercator said:

    Tomorrow is the anniversary of one of the greatest tabloid corrections of all time.



    https://x.com/MrPMHarrison/status/1829422300124332542/photo/1

    That is fabulous

    I learnt that news from a Mail on Sunday headline. 9/11 was the first big bit of news I first got off the internet. It said Terrorists fly plane into building in US and I pictured a Cessna flying into a wooden Midwest church or bank sort of thing.
    The company I worked for at the time of 9/11 had a 'wow room', which displayed our products in what was actually a waiting room. I was on a bulletin board (Mono, for those that care/remember), when a poster said that a plane had crashed into the Twin Towers. I went into the wow room, which had many TVs in, and turned the TVs onto live news. I therefore saw the second plane crash happen essentially all around me.

    A day or so later, I was asked to announce the couple of minutes silence that was held outside the company. I have zero idea why I, rather than a more senior manager was asked, but it is something I will always remember with sadness.
    Ah, mono, those were the days...

    I was in Cambridge that day with a friend from Oop North. At the time I was subscribed to a service with my mobile network that sent text messages for breaking news - the first message I got on it was along the lines of "second plane hits Twin Towers, terrorism suspected", and my immediate reaction was "thank you, Sherlock" (I was very young). I wasn't planning on taking my Walkman with me (because, you know, I was supposed to spend all day being sociable with my friend) but for some reason I did, and spent most of the day resenting the weight I was dragging with me - but I was glued to it the rest of the day as we travelled home.
    I was in Cambridge on that day too. I wonder how close we were in proximity...

    Incidentally, I vaguely knew Dave Brownlee, who wrote Mono. A 'scientific' concept was created about him that was called the 'Dave Decay Curve'; and he posited that it was possible to walk from (what is now) the Silicon Roundabout to Stepney in half an hour...
This discussion has been closed.