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The kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,008
edited August 4 in General
The kaleidoscope has been shaken. The pieces are in flux. – politicalbetting.com

And on the flip side, Biden was pretty strong with older white voters in the North East – are Maine and New Hampshire more competitive in Trump v Harris?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    One assumption we had to watch with Biden was that bad numbers were bad news. In fact, he seemed to be losing ground in safe states, which implied he was doing better than realised in the swing states.

    I wonder if with Harris we might have to upend that assumption? Certainly, her polling numbers are better than Biden's and within MoE with Trump - but if that's by a sudden solidifying of her position in Maine and New Hampshire I don't think we're looking at Texas being in play.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    And to go off topic straight away, this is pretty damning:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjk3p4jnnl6o

    I think many teachers will recognise the issues as reading across to OFSTED too.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,801
    If continued, falling stock markets might be another factor as American workers are more closely involved with their 401s and IRAs (roughly, pension funds) than we are.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214
    A thought on the "incumbents getting punished for a difficult four years economically" thing...

    A lot of people had been struggling in the run up to 1992, but John Major got away with it. And whilst he wasn't that new really (he'd been a Cabinet minister, and mostly in the Treasury for years), he was a fresh face for many voters. And the dumping of Maggie was enough blood sacrifice to appease the public.

    How likely is it that something similar is happening in the US?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
  • An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
  • So the lying about public finances has started already.....

    Apropos?
    Reeves 20 billion hole. It's only a hole because Labour want to spend. The hole is illusory.
    It's Labour who are creating the hole and blaming it on the Tories. It will end in tears for us all. Taxed to buggery and still there will be a mess to clear up eventually.
    As I have said several times, if it pays less to earn the money but pays more to sit at home suckling on the taxpayers teat people will do precisely that.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    True of things which are far enough advanced to have become financial estimates. There's things you know are going to resolve into socking great liabilities but which have not yet resolved into numbers for the OBR. Say RAAC and the Post Office fuck up, looked at 5 years ago.
  • StaffordKnotStaffordKnot Posts: 99

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
    Let's take an analogy. Pretend I am walking along the street with my wife and a group of people attack and injure her. They, in their turn, are overpowered by another group of people and held on the floor. If I then go up to the person who injured my wife and kick him in the face, I will be arrested, prosecuted, and likely face prison.

    That needs to happen to this copper. Whatever, literally whatever, went on before is irrelevant.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,096

    An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
    I'd imagine it's all of the regulations that are driving output. The higher the regulatory burden the more money is invested into mechanisation and automation which results in huge productivity gains.
  • StaffordKnotStaffordKnot Posts: 99

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    No - it won't be a surprise to them because they were telling the truth during the election campaign and before. Meanwhile, Hunt was telling us that everything was wonderful - a delusion he carried forward to the King's Speech debate earlier this week.
  • edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,482
    The current timeline will choose the route of maximum chaos, for instance

    Dem gain NC
    GOP gain WI, PA, MI, NV

    EV tie
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    edited July 26

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
    Let's take an analogy. Pretend I am walking along the street with my wife and a group of people attack and injure her. They, in their turn, are overpowered by another group of people and held on the floor. If I then go up to the person who injured my wife and kick him in the face, I will be arrested, prosecuted, and likely face prison.

    That needs to happen to this copper. Whatever, literally whatever, went on before is irrelevant.
    You missing the point I was making. Read the previous thread for my point of view. I was stating that the armed police in the UK are much better trained than standard bobbies and this makes this incident more shocking as most of the shitty police behaviour isn't the armed response, they are overwhelmingly calm and given a mistake from them kills somebody, they rarely do. To have an armed officer lose their temper like that is in many ways even worse than the standard plod as they are specially trained not to because they are carrying a shooter.
  • MaxPB said:

    An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
    I'd imagine it's all of the regulations that are driving output. The higher the regulatory burden the more money is invested into mechanisation and automation which results in huge productivity gains.
    Dosen't work that way here alas. For example. Look at the replacement of automated car washes with exploited Romanians.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,225
    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    I have no doubt they will just double down and the same will happen in future events.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,369
    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    Imagine presenting Lasha Talakhazde the menu
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214
    edited July 26

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    Of course it was theatre. There were plenty of people pointing out that the base map of government income and expenditure wasn't going to survive contact with reality, whoever won the election. If, somehow, the Conservatives had won, the reverse ferret of their autumn statement would have been a sight to behold as well.

    And yes, it would have been much better to have this discussion as part of the election process. But Party A has made it clear that they are willing to lie and say that everything if ticketyboo, what is Party B to do? To tell the truth is to lose, to join in the lie is complicity- though a bit less culpable than what Party A has done.

    It's why the taboo against lying in politics (you don't have to tell the whole truth, but what you say must be true) is so important, because otherwise it becomes the cheat code to victory. Johnson and Cummings smashed it into a zillion pieces, and it's going to take time and effort to restore.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    edited July 26

    An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
    With automation ?
    A hell of a lot, I suspect.

    And anyone who watched the videos of recent car factory builds will see that it outpaces anything in the 1930s.

    And how do you compare a semiconductor fab with ... a typewriter factory ?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,316
    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 11,872
    edited July 26

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    I don’t agree with Paul on this, and he was notably less insistent on the point on Today this morning.

    He is talking about the “books” being open in the sense that everyone can see spending plans, anticipated tax receipts and debt interest in the Treasury and OBR forecasts.

    However, that’s like me saying there’s no black hole in my house renovation budget because I have the original builder’s quotes and I know what salary I’m getting this year. But what Reeves is talking about is the equivalent of those overruns your building project always gets when they find damp in the stairwell or discover the boiler is shot and needs replacing. Nobody in opposition can do anything more than make suppositions on this.

    Looks like it’ll be a busy week of journo conversations for me coming up.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,225

    So the lying about public finances has started already.....

    Apropos?
    Reeves 20 billion hole. It's only a hole because Labour want to spend. The hole is illusory.
    It's Labour who are creating the hole and blaming it on the Tories. It will end in tears for us all. Taxed to buggery and still there will be a mess to clear up eventually.
    As I have said several times, if it pays less to earn the money but pays more to sit at home suckling on the taxpayers teat people will do precisely that.
    Of course they would and if they bring in UBI that is exactly what I would do.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,618

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,801

    A thought on the "incumbents getting punished for a difficult four years economically" thing...

    A lot of people had been struggling in the run up to 1992, but John Major got away with it. And whilst he wasn't that new really (he'd been a Cabinet minister, and mostly in the Treasury for years), he was a fresh face for many voters. And the dumping of Maggie was enough blood sacrifice to appease the public.

    How likely is it that something similar is happening in the US?

    Ironically, by dismissing Kamala for the past three and a half years, Republicans have made the case for her as the new kid on the block, the change candidate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    On topic, I think the two candidates ought to be close to evens.

    It's quite possible that Harris will be favourite in a few weeks' time.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,403
    edited July 26

    MaxPB said:

    An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
    I'd imagine it's all of the regulations that are driving output. The higher the regulatory burden the more money is invested into mechanisation and automation which results in huge productivity gains.
    Dosen't work that way here alas. For example. Look at the replacement of automated car washes with exploited Romanians.

    MaxPB said:

    An interesting stat from the US, if true:

    "BESPOKE: “.. In inflation-adjusted terms, the current pace of [US] factory investment dwarfs any prior period. Dating back to 1929, there's never been a period of factory construction activity even close to what we're seeing today.”"

    https://x.com/carlquintanilla/status/1816551855633187082

    How much factory per $ even inflation adjusted do you get now compared with 1929 given all the rules, regulations, h&s, assurance etc now required?
    I'd imagine it's all of the regulations that are driving output. The higher the regulatory burden the more money is invested into mechanisation and automation which results in huge productivity gains.
    Dosen't work that way here alas. For example. Look at the replacement of automated car washes with exploited Romanians.
    Given the cost of building a factory in 1929 from scratch (hand laid bricks, timber roof carpentered up on the spot, not a lot of automation beyond a steam excavator, roller and concrete mixer) vs prefabricated metal components such as roof joists and wall panels hoisted into place by a crane very quickly, I can see how it's possible to get cheaper space.

    Edit: also, the bigger the factory is the less you spend per cubic metre. Square versus cube scaling.

    And no need to include a steam engine as prime mover for the energy.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    edited July 26
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
    Erhh, he is now, but...

    "During the early 1990s, while still playing, he admitted that he was a "lying" vegetarian since he occasionally ate shrimp and fish. He took fish oil and was macrobiotic and played the large part of his NBA career as a vegetarian, albeit loosely."

    https://thebeet.com/former-nba-champ-john-salleys-tips-for-plant-based-living/

    I am sure it works for some to be full vegan, but the documentary that convinced a load of athletes to try was full of BS and most rapidly returned to not being vegan.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,462
    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.
  • While there are limitations on researching solar stats on holiday on a train in Cornwall abd @TSE called me out on using out of date data, Money Saving Expert (Martin Lewis) have an up to date article dated 3rd July 2024

    This states:

    "The break-even point is about 14 years

    "The price of a typical 3.5 kilowatt-peak PV solar panel system is about £7,000. Based on the Energy Saving Trust's figures, it could take someone living in the middle of the country, in a typical home, anywhere between 12 and 17 years to recoup the costs of installing panels, based on current Energy Price Cap rates. This depends on how much electricity you use and when you use it, and what you're paid under the smart export guarantee."

    That dosent look like a good deal to me?

    In fact it looks bloody awful.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214
    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Who was the American politician who said the "I want him to have to deny it" line?

    And as for the couch thing, was it a satirical jape that got out of hand? Very revealing of what some people think of him though- like Major's underpants, the assumption that it's plausible.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,550

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    It's a straightforward lie.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,111

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
    Let's take an analogy. Pretend I am walking along the street with my wife and a group of people attack and injure her. They, in their turn, are overpowered by another group of people and held on the floor. If I then go up to the person who injured my wife and kick him in the face, I will be arrested, prosecuted, and likely face prison.

    That needs to happen to this copper. Whatever, literally whatever, went on before is irrelevant.
    That's not a good analogy. For one thing, police officers have many more duties and responsibilities than that. They were there to prevent trouble; and had already had colleagues injured. It is *alleged* that the man on the floor was still resisting arrest immediately before the video started, and his arms were not fully restrained. Perhaps that's b/s, but it's the sort of thing that makes what seems a heinous reaction into a potentially reasonable one.

    If I was to change your line to: "One aggressor is partially overpowered by another group of people, and he is held on the floor, but he is still struggling There is a knife (gun) present nearby. If I then go up to the person on the floor and kick him in the face to help overpower him..."

    The presence of the officer's gun is also an interesting point.

    It could well be that the officer's actions were totally out of order; out of order but understandable. or reasonable given the circumstances.

    We do not know.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,342
    It isn't going to happen, but the absolutely hilarious outcome would be for Texas to go Harris, the Electoral College to go Harris and the popular vote to go Trump. 2016 in reverse.

    The apoplexy Trump and his followers will have of being denied the Presidency after winning the popular vote due to the machinations of the Electoral College would be amazing.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,462
    Mr. Romford, Lyndon B Johnson, wasn't it?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    edited July 26

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    No - it won't be a surprise to them because they were telling the truth during the election campaign and before. Meanwhile, Hunt was telling us that everything was wonderful - a delusion he carried forward to the King's Speech debate earlier this week.
    Actually both Labour and the Tories were extremely reticent about addressing the implied 'black hole' in the finances which every financial commentator recognised was implied by Hunt's existing tax & spending plans.

    Reeves is now fessing up to what everyone paying attention already knew.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,123

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Who was the American politician who said the "I want him to have to deny it" line?

    And as for the couch thing, was it a satirical jape that got out of hand? Very revealing of what some people think of him though- like Major's underpants, the assumption that it's plausible.
    LBJ.

    “This is one of the oldest and most effective tricks in politics. Every hack in the business has used it in times of trouble, and it has even been elevated to the level of political mythology in a story about one of Lyndon Johnson’s early campaigns in Texas.

    “The race was close and Johnson was getting worried. Finally he told his campaign manager to start a massive rumour campaign about his opponent’s life-long habit of enjoying carnal knowledge of his barnyard sows.

    “Christ, we can’t get away with calling him a pig-fucker,” the campaign manager protested. “Nobody’s going to believe a thing like that.”

    “I know,” Johnson replied. “But let’s make the sonofabitchh deny it.”
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,230

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
    Wasn't the problem that nobody was really in charge?

    There was barely concealed antagonism between Dick and the Gun Squad which contributed to a series of errors and miscommunications leading up to the shooting.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873

    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.

    So (sort of) is Djokovic.

    I'm not sure they were forcing it on anyone ?
    They were more likely just incompetent in estimating demand.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,835

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Who was the American politician who said the "I want him to have to deny it" line?

    And as for the couch thing, was it a satirical jape that got out of hand? Very revealing of what some people think of him though- like Major's underpants, the assumption that it's plausible.
    It was a joke someone made online, but some people believed it was true.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 26
    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,342

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    Though that's not true for unpublished numbers.

    Eg the the independent pay review figure for teachers and the NHS had been given to the prior government in April I believe, but was left unpublished and unresponded to until after the election. Considering the OBR figures didn't include this, that is a legitimate black hole.

    Similarly prisons. The country needs more prison spaces, but they've not been budgeted for. How is that going to happen?

    Decisions that were known had to be made prior to the election, but were postponed until post-election to evade them being in the OBR data, are a black hole.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    edited July 26

    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.

    I think it will be easier for some sports than others e.g. there are a small number of vocal vegan elite cyclists, but many who are vegan / vegetarian most of the year have to ditch it when it comes to actually racing a grand tour,

    EF Education-EasyPost riders who are usually vegan or vegetarian will eat chicken and fish during a Grand Tour, according to Blandy.

    “You can live perfectly fine as a vegan athlete, but when you're required to eat so much protein, it’s very difficult to do so with natural foods,” he says.

    “Beans, nuts and seeds have a lot of protein, but you’ll consume too much fat and fibre along with them.”

    https://www.bikeradar.com/features/how-tour-de-france-pros-fuel-cool-hydrate
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873

    A thought on the "incumbents getting punished for a difficult four years economically" thing...

    A lot of people had been struggling in the run up to 1992, but John Major got away with it. And whilst he wasn't that new really (he'd been a Cabinet minister, and mostly in the Treasury for years), he was a fresh face for many voters. And the dumping of Maggie was enough blood sacrifice to appease the public.

    How likely is it that something similar is happening in the US?

    Ironically, by dismissing Kamala for the past three and a half years, Republicans have made the case for her as the new kid on the block, the change candidate.
    That is the upside for her having been largely invisible for most of the administration.

    Whether she can continue to surprise on the upside - she's certainly been more impressive than during the last campaign - will likely decide the election.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Sofa, so disastrous.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 79,920
    Food is so last year anyway, you gotta be on the baking soda and carbon monoxide these days.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Re Black Hole...as Paul Johnson from the IFS has said now with the OBR and more data than ever available there is no unknown surprise of a black hole. Excluding some rounding around the edge, all the numbers that are required are available to all. Its all theatre to claim you have only just discovered it.

    It's a straightforward lie.
    No it isn't, see my post 0753 and TimS's more lucid one at 0802.

    My chimney has a crack in it. A builder has looked at it and quoted for the job. He has also said that while he was up there he couldn't help noticing my entire rear roof was fucked, does he want me to have a good look at it and estimate for that? Analogously the chimney quote is accessible to the OBR, the new government knows nothing about the roof till it sees my notes after it has taken office.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,225
    Nigelb said:

    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.

    So (sort of) is Djokovic.

    I'm not sure they were forcing it on anyone ?
    They were more likely just incompetent in estimating demand.
    So similar to ticket sales then.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,847
    Texas is going through a demographic change that is somewhat analogous to the English South coast. It's becoming more like California, not least because lots of Californians are moving there. It won't switch to the Dems for this election but feasible over the next ten years I think.
  • jamesdoylejamesdoyle Posts: 769

    While there are limitations on researching solar stats on holiday on a train in Cornwall abd @TSE called me out on using out of date data, Money Saving Expert (Martin Lewis) have an up to date article dated 3rd July 2024

    This states:

    "The break-even point is about 14 years

    "The price of a typical 3.5 kilowatt-peak PV solar panel system is about £7,000. Based on the Energy Saving Trust's figures, it could take someone living in the middle of the country, in a typical home, anywhere between 12 and 17 years to recoup the costs of installing panels, based on current Energy Price Cap rates. This depends on how much electricity you use and when you use it, and what you're paid under the smart export guarantee."

    That dosent look like a good deal to me?

    In fact it looks bloody awful.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/

    A distant relative had solar installed six months ago. He was told it would be 5-7 years to recoup, but he's now thinking less than 5. This is the graph of a recent day: green is energy produced, blue is exports to the grid, orange (flat line along the bottom) is what he's talking from the grid. Household of three, well insulated home.

  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Sofa, so disastrous.
    Sofa, so wood Shirley
  • Oh Dear.

    This is on a par with the sort of things that happened in Ireland in 1921.

    "France’s train network sabotaged in ‘massive arson attack’ hours ahead of Olympics opening ceremony
    Services on several routes cancelled after TGV facilities damaged, country’s rail operator says

    “SNCF was the victim of several simultaneous malicious acts overnight,” the national train operator said, adding that the attacks affected its Atlantic, northern and eastern lines."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/france-train-network-sabotaged-olympics/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,123

    Oh Dear.

    This is on a par with the sort of things that happened in Ireland in 1921.

    "France’s train network sabotaged in ‘massive arson attack’ hours ahead of Olympics opening ceremony
    Services on several routes cancelled after TGV facilities damaged, country’s rail operator says

    “SNCF was the victim of several simultaneous malicious acts overnight,” the national train operator said, adding that the attacks affected its Atlantic, northern and eastern lines."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/france-train-network-sabotaged-olympics/

    Actually it happened in France before, on the 5th/6th of June 1944.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Sofa, so disastrous.
    @Delfts_auw

    I don’t care what JD Vance does as long as the couch was over 18 years old and it wasn’t just a one nightstand.
    Are we sure that Trump's not fucking the chair of the RNC?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,462
    Mr. xP, but if the sofa isn't a mother, how can it be truly satisfied with its life?
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,225
    Nigelb said:

    A thought on the "incumbents getting punished for a difficult four years economically" thing...

    A lot of people had been struggling in the run up to 1992, but John Major got away with it. And whilst he wasn't that new really (he'd been a Cabinet minister, and mostly in the Treasury for years), he was a fresh face for many voters. And the dumping of Maggie was enough blood sacrifice to appease the public.

    How likely is it that something similar is happening in the US?

    Ironically, by dismissing Kamala for the past three and a half years, Republicans have made the case for her as the new kid on the block, the change candidate.
    That is the upside for her having been largely invisible for most of the administration.

    Whether she can continue to surprise on the upside - she's certainly been more impressive than during the last campaign - will likely decide the election.
    In the UK she has had a very very favourable press. The coverage, especially on the TV news, is verging on the reverential.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,230
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
  • While there are limitations on researching solar stats on holiday on a train in Cornwall abd @TSE called me out on using out of date data, Money Saving Expert (Martin Lewis) have an up to date article dated 3rd July 2024

    This states:

    "The break-even point is about 14 years

    "The price of a typical 3.5 kilowatt-peak PV solar panel system is about £7,000. Based on the Energy Saving Trust's figures, it could take someone living in the middle of the country, in a typical home, anywhere between 12 and 17 years to recoup the costs of installing panels, based on current Energy Price Cap rates. This depends on how much electricity you use and when you use it, and what you're paid under the smart export guarantee."

    That dosent look like a good deal to me?

    In fact it looks bloody awful.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/

    A distant relative had solar installed six months ago. He was told it would be 5-7 years to recoup, but he's now thinking less than 5. This is the graph of a recent day: green is energy produced, blue is exports to the grid, orange (flat line along the bottom) is what he's talking from the grid. Household of three, well insulated home.

    To be honest, graphs like that and having my own live one make it really tempting, probably the worst reason possible :-)

    Wonder why Lewises figures are so cautious, most schemes being enrichment vehicles for middlemen at the expense of the unwary perhaps?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,847
    FF43 said:

    Texas is going through a demographic change that is somewhat analogous to the English South coast. It's becoming more like California, not least because lots of Californians are moving there. It won't switch to the Dems for this election but feasible over the next ten years I think.

    The other point I would make is the South is not like the northern rust belt, even though both are Republican fiefdoms. Many Southern cities are doing well economically and tend to Democracy.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Sofa, so disastrous.
    @Delfts_auw

    I don’t care what JD Vance does as long as the couch was over 18 years old and it wasn’t just a one nightstand.
    The funniest thing about Vance is that he was vetted by ... Don Jnr.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,801

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
  • TazTaz Posts: 13,225
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    Sofa, so disastrous.
    @Delfts_auw

    I don’t care what JD Vance does as long as the couch was over 18 years old and it wasn’t just a one nightstand.
    The funniest thing about Vance is that he was vetted by ... Don Jnr.
    I did say in reply to a post from TUD who on earth did the due diligence. Now I know and it makes sense.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
  • StaffordKnotStaffordKnot Posts: 99

    kle4 said:

    Cookie said:

    Andy_JS said:

    A couple of weeks ago Andy Burnham was jigging in the Sky News election night studio, now he has to deal with this.

    "Protests break out for second night in Manchester after Burnham calls for calm"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/07/25/politics-latest-news-keir-starmer-tom-tugendhat/

    I don't fully understand what's going on, but looking at the posters it appears to be fuelled by the BLM mob. It's not clear AFAICS what had happened at Manchester Airport which led to the incident.

    Film of police officer kicking a protester in the head.

    Regardless of provocation, if any, pretty dumb thing to do in this day and age in front of a crowd where someone is sure to capture the moment.
    They weren't protesters. They were wanted for assaulting police officers and resisting arrest. 3 officers required hospital treatment. Clearly what has happened is the officer has lost his temper, which is worrying for an armed cop. In the UK, they are the most highly trained and is rare to see them be ones not acting calmly. Even the cases brought against them for shooting individuals, in basically every case, they only shot as a last resort. We don't really have the US problem of cops being trigger happy.
    Yes, the police are rightly held to a very high standard because of the power they hold over us as a result of their positions. That does mean that on occasion it might feel harsh to condemn, but it is necessary not to let such things slide, even when context means it is not as awful as it might appear at first glance.
    There is also quite a big difference between the standards / training of the "bobby on the beat" and those allowed to carry weapons. Pretty much every case in the UK of police misbehaving, they aren't the ones with the shooters. There have been the odd high profile case e.g. Duggan, but again they weren't shooting him in a moment of rage, he was known violent armed criminal, they stopped him in a pre-planned operation, he pulled his weapon. There was no head stomping, in fact they tried to save his life.
    There was also the Scotsman with a table leg, who was not an Irishman with a gun.
    That was 25 years ago. Which sort of proves my point. That incidents are the armed police really makes a balls up, we can remember basically each incident. Where as the US, its called a day ending in y.

    Jean Charles de Menezes was the big failure. Thankful the person in charge that day didn't get promoted up the chain...
    Let's take an analogy. Pretend I am walking along the street with my wife and a group of people attack and injure her. They, in their turn, are overpowered by another group of people and held on the floor. If I then go up to the person who injured my wife and kick him in the face, I will be arrested, prosecuted, and likely face prison.

    That needs to happen to this copper. Whatever, literally whatever, went on before is irrelevant.
    You missing the point I was making. Read the previous thread for my point of view. I was stating that the armed police in the UK are much better trained than standard bobbies and this makes this incident more shocking as most of the shitty police behaviour isn't the armed response, they are overwhelmingly calm and given a mistake from them kills somebody, they rarely do. To have an armed officer lose their temper like that is in many ways even worse than the standard plod as they are specially trained not to because they are carrying a shooter.
    I apologise to you. There have been those, including (worryingly) Andy Burnham, who seem to be using the "The police were provoked line" and that the full situation is not clear.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
    It's not it's longue suit.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,342

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
    Alternatively eliminating the thresholds so that people aren't pushed into looking at ways of evading the thresholds would be a good idea.

    That people deliberately take action to avoid dramatic cliff-edges is not new information and is why cliff edges shouldn't exist, whether it be coming off UC, 50k or anywhere else.

    If that means a higher base rate, but no cliff edges, then that's better than a theoretically lower base rate but then far higher rate in reality.

    Especially since our current tax system means that of four people, one on £16k, one on £50k, one on £100k, and one on £160k . . . it is the latter that faces the lowest marginal tax rate.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,116
    Harris will do better than Biden with blacks, Latinos and women and less well with older white men. How that breaks down State wise is very hard to predict but I would expect Arizona and New Mexico to become far more competitive.

    Women is the big one. I still think this will be the abortion election and the anger against the SC overturning Roe will be much better marshalled by Kamala than Biden could have managed. She needs a big lead amongst women to offset other areas of weakness.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,316
    DavidL said:

    Harris will do better than Biden with blacks, Latinos and women and less well with older white men. How that breaks down State wise is very hard to predict but I would expect Arizona and New Mexico to become far more competitive.

    Women is the big one. I still think this will be the abortion election and the anger against the SC overturning Roe will be much better marshalled by Kamala than Biden could have managed. She needs a big lead amongst women to offset other areas of weakness.

    There was a call last night. According to TwiX 130,000 women called in and they raised $2M
  • FossFoss Posts: 857

    While there are limitations on researching solar stats on holiday on a train in Cornwall abd @TSE called me out on using out of date data, Money Saving Expert (Martin Lewis) have an up to date article dated 3rd July 2024

    This states:

    "The break-even point is about 14 years

    "The price of a typical 3.5 kilowatt-peak PV solar panel system is about £7,000. Based on the Energy Saving Trust's figures, it could take someone living in the middle of the country, in a typical home, anywhere between 12 and 17 years to recoup the costs of installing panels, based on current Energy Price Cap rates. This depends on how much electricity you use and when you use it, and what you're paid under the smart export guarantee."

    That dosent look like a good deal to me?

    In fact it looks bloody awful.

    https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/utilities/free-solar-panels/

    A distant relative had solar installed six months ago. He was told it would be 5-7 years to recoup, but he's now thinking less than 5. This is the graph of a recent day: green is energy produced, blue is exports to the grid, orange (flat line along the bottom) is what he's talking from the grid. Household of three, well insulated home.

    If I’m reading that graph correctly then solar becomes implicitly more attractive for wfh-ers.
  • rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
    The salary sacrifice only saves you the NI. Putting the money into pension contributions is what gets your taxable income below said thresholds.

    The change from TC to UC would have done for me if I still got it as UC is means tested on capital (savings) as well as income.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,847
    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    No fan of JD Vance obviously but if someone invents a nonsensical and utterly untrue story about your sexual preferences, denying that story is not a bad reflection on you.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    No fan of JD Vance obviously but if someone invents a nonsensical and utterly untrue story about your sexual preferences, denying that story is not a bad reflection on you.
    Will that cushion the impact?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,657
    I was genuinely astonished to find that Harris is 59. Looks incredible.

    If the Democrats bring lots of energy and aggression to the campaign you could see things fall apart for Trump. They have inverted the age/senility debate and their adverts are super punchy - challenging Trump to debate etc
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822

    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.

    He is a vegan. But he also has a full-time personal trainer who can put together a well-supplemented meal plan for him wherever he happens to be in the world, not something available to anyone who isn’t an elite athlete. His team also have their own chefs at every race weekend.

    It’s not a diet change you’d make the week before the biggest day of your sporting career, that’s for sure.
  • Eabhal said:

    I was genuinely astonished to find that Harris is 59. Looks incredible.

    If the Democrats bring lots of energy and aggression to the campaign you could see things fall apart for Trump. They have inverted the age/senility debate and their adverts are super punchy - challenging Trump to debate etc

    Are you saying she is a MILF as well as a Stepmom?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,403
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
    It's not it's longue suit.
    Still, think of all the ambulance-chaiser libel lawyers perking up their ears.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,958
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
    It's not it's longue suit.
    Dear Lord, the memes are really quite funny... the original hurly burly of the chaise longue has morphed into wider furniture related gags.. As the kids say, it has "cut through" and "gone viral". When they laugh at you, not with you, you may have lost the room.

    Of course the ridicule is really because his politics rather than his libido are highly objectionable and occasionally actually mad.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,657

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
    As long as I can get my cycle2work order in before the next fiscal event...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,862

    The current timeline will choose the route of maximum chaos, for instance

    Dem gain NC
    GOP gain WI, PA, MI, NV

    EV tie

    My big worry is this time various GOP states won't certify electoral outcomes to send to Congress. Last time they all did and it was a bunch of weirdos who organised phoney alternative electors.

    This time some might just not certify claiming a handful of alleged irregularities means millions of votes cannot be trusted, even if the officials overseeing the counts and the courts say no problem.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,116

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
    Really? I think it is an issue much further up the salary scale with people trying to retain some of the PA or simply avoiding harsh marginal rates of tax. People who still qualify for benefits do not strike me as the sort who could afford to forgo income.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
    It's not it's longue suit.
    Still, think of all the ambulance-chaiser libel lawyers perking up their ears.
    Can you imagine him at the seat of government?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,657

    Eabhal said:

    I was genuinely astonished to find that Harris is 59. Looks incredible.

    If the Democrats bring lots of energy and aggression to the campaign you could see things fall apart for Trump. They have inverted the age/senility debate and their adverts are super punchy - challenging Trump to debate etc

    Are you saying she is a MILF as well as a Stepmom?
    Rather her than a sofa, that's for sure.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,342
    Sandpit said:

    Apparently, Hamilton's vegan.

    But forcing that diet (or vegetarian) on people is ridiculous.

    He is a vegan. But he also has a full-time personal trainer who can put together a well-supplemented meal plan for him wherever he happens to be in the world, not something available to anyone who isn’t an elite athlete. His team also have their own chefs at every race weekend.

    It’s not a diet change you’d make the week before the biggest day of your sporting career, that’s for sure.
    To be fair they're all elite athletes.

    However it is also worth noting that even if you were suddenly given access to a full-time personal trainer who can put together a well-supplemented meal plan for you, that it takes your body time to adjust to being on any new diet.

    Never make dramatic changes immediately before big days is a good rule of thumb.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 94,862
    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
    I'm sure it's possible but if most athletes weren't doing it organisers probably shouldn't have prepared on the assumption they were.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,116
    FF43 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    No fan of JD Vance obviously but if someone invents a nonsensical and utterly untrue story about your sexual preferences, denying that story is not a bad reflection on you.
    The LBJ pig story comes to mind.
  • Oh Dear.

    This is on a par with the sort of things that happened in Ireland in 1921.

    "France’s train network sabotaged in ‘massive arson attack’ hours ahead of Olympics opening ceremony
    Services on several routes cancelled after TGV facilities damaged, country’s rail operator says

    “SNCF was the victim of several simultaneous malicious acts overnight,” the national train operator said, adding that the attacks affected its Atlantic, northern and eastern lines."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/france-train-network-sabotaged-olympics/

    Actually it happened in France before, on the 5th/6th of June 1944.
    It was the only language they understood
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,657
    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
    I'm sure it's possible but if most athletes weren't doing it organisers probably shouldn't have prepared on the assumption they were.
    I bet you Team France have got excellent food.
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,230
    Eabhal said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
    I'm sure it's possible but if most athletes weren't doing it organisers probably shouldn't have prepared on the assumption they were.
    I bet you Team France have got excellent food.
    They probably go home for lunch.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,302
    Eabhal said:

    kle4 said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    MaxPB said:

    Lol they've run out of proper food for the athletes at the Olympic village after organisers promised a sustainable plant based menu. Athletes complaining there's not enough grilled meat not enough eggs and the plant based options are shite. Team GB has brought in an extra chef to their base camp and the athletes are travelling there every evening for dinner.

    Imagine providing a predominantly plant based menu at an elite sporting event. Who the fuck thought that was a good idea.

    The idiots who watched that dodgy documentary about being able to be an elite athlete as a vegan.
    John Salley won 4 x NBA Championships on a 100% vegan diet so it's possible. #veganpower

    It's probably not possible if you adopt that diet the week before the Olympics.
    I'm sure it's possible but if most athletes weren't doing it organisers probably shouldn't have prepared on the assumption they were.
    I bet you Team France have got excellent food.
    Lots of decent cheese.

    The rest can have a rock for breakfast.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,116
    Scott_xP said:

    DavidL said:

    Harris will do better than Biden with blacks, Latinos and women and less well with older white men. How that breaks down State wise is very hard to predict but I would expect Arizona and New Mexico to become far more competitive.

    Women is the big one. I still think this will be the abortion election and the anger against the SC overturning Roe will be much better marshalled by Kamala than Biden could have managed. She needs a big lead amongst women to offset other areas of weakness.

    There was a call last night. According to TwiX 130,000 women called in and they raised $2M
    Her fundraising figures are incredible and you begin to wonder how much was being held back as people lost faith in Biden. But Hilary was a great fundraiser too and it did her no good in the end. She needs to get out and about in Pennsylvania, Georgia, Pennsylvania, Michigan, Penn, Wisconsin, Penn, New Mexico, Penn etc.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214

    Eabhal said:

    I was genuinely astonished to find that Harris is 59. Looks incredible.

    If the Democrats bring lots of energy and aggression to the campaign you could see things fall apart for Trump. They have inverted the age/senility debate and their adverts are super punchy - challenging Trump to debate etc

    Are you saying she is a MILF as well as a Stepmom?
    I thought her non-M status was top of Vance's charge sheet against her.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,342

    Eabhal said:

    I was genuinely astonished to find that Harris is 59. Looks incredible.

    If the Democrats bring lots of energy and aggression to the campaign you could see things fall apart for Trump. They have inverted the age/senility debate and their adverts are super punchy - challenging Trump to debate etc

    Are you saying she is a MILF as well as a Stepmom?
    I thought her non-M status was top of Vance's charge sheet against her.
    SMILF?
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 16,847
    DavidL said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Ok I will bite.

    "A typical 4kW solar panel system, including installation, costs £5,000 - £6,000. Added together, the total cost of solar panels and a battery in the UK is £13,000-£15,500.

    You can save between £440 - £1,005 per year on electricity costs, breaking even in 7 - 9 years."

    https://www.greenmatch.co.uk/blog/2014/08/what-is-the-installation-cost-for-solar-panels.

    Lets say the cost is the midpoint £14,250 and the saving is the midpoint £772.50p per year.

    If I invest the money instead I only need a 5.5% annual return to be better off?

    (noting also that Robert is predicting a gas glut so fuel prices will fall, lessening the saving.


    Whats the point?

    5.5% post tax

    Which is equivalent to a 10% pretax yield.

    Equities typically return 7% per year pretax.

    And, of course, if energy prices rise at the rate of inflation (which I claim they won't, of course), then that's 10% pretax index linked.
    Hang on 5.5% pretax = 10% post tax. Even allowing for compounding that seems high.

    Currently paying 0% tax on savings /investments though (ISA etc). That might change temporarily when I retire and get a lump sum though.
    That's not the point I'm making.

    If I offer to reduce your expenses by £100 a year, or to increase your pretax income by £100 year, which is worth more?
    Understood. However in my case I pay no tax or NI on my primary savings/investments on the way in or the way out.

    (its a salary sacrifice AVC that bolts onto a DB pension scheme and forms the up to 25% cash lump sum - effectively with a 5% of your gross pay contribution limit).

    Prior to child benefit limit going up to £60k I was getting about 70% marginal tax relief on AVCs and a few years before that when I had five kids on child benefit I also qualified for a small amount of tax credits and got in excess of 100% tax relief on pension AVCs, which was quite absurd.

    As an aside, if Rachel Reeves is looking to save a few quid, then salary sacrifice might be a place to look. It is increasingly being used to maintain entitlement to state benefits by artificially reducing high salaries below benefit thresholds.
    Really? I think it is an issue much further up the salary scale with people trying to retain some of the PA or simply avoiding harsh marginal rates of tax. People who still qualify for benefits do not strike me as the sort who could afford to forgo income.
    The purpose of salary sacrifice is to reduce income tax. This is by design as governments want to encourage certain behaviours like saving for your pension. Rachel Reeves could choose to limit the rate of that reduction, eg only allowing sacrifice at basic rate income tax
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 67,873
    .
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Things seem to be going well in Trumpland...

    @RonFilipkowski
    Trump said he was going to testify in the Trump Univ case - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in Carroll trial- 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY fraud trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would testify in NY criminal trial - 🐓’d out.

    Said he would debate Harris - 🐓’d out.

    🐓🐓🐓🐓


    @mmpadellan
    If your VP pick has to run around denying that he fucked a couch, you officially picked the worst VP.

    EVER.

    I think we should make clear for the sake of PB's legal position, that the couch story isn't true.
    But it does show Vance is a clear lay.
    And would a couch be in a position to sue anyway?
    No standing ?
    It's not it's longue suit.
    Still, think of all the ambulance-chaiser libel lawyers perking up their ears.
    It would have to be an English venue, though -
    Chesterfield Crown Court.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 2,958

    Oh Dear.

    This is on a par with the sort of things that happened in Ireland in 1921.

    "France’s train network sabotaged in ‘massive arson attack’ hours ahead of Olympics opening ceremony
    Services on several routes cancelled after TGV facilities damaged, country’s rail operator says

    “SNCF was the victim of several simultaneous malicious acts overnight,” the national train operator said, adding that the attacks affected its Atlantic, northern and eastern lines."

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/26/france-train-network-sabotaged-olympics/

    Actually it happened in France before, on the 5th/6th of June 1944.
    It was the only language they understood
    The Russians are cruising for a hell of a kicking. This more or less open sabotage will lead to blow back. I came back from France yesterday and the mood towards Russia is increasingly hostile. If there is a successful sabotage, I think the DGSE will really go after the organisers as well as the perpetrators.
This discussion has been closed.