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The latest White House race betting – politicalbetting.com

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  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    edited July 24

    RobD said:

    HYUFD said:

    2024 Georgia GE:

    Trump 48% (+1)
    Harris 47%

    Landmark Communications, 7/22
    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815874154132083116

    That is much closer than Biden was polling. It is getting interesting.
    HYUFD appears to post polls selectively for pro trump bias which reinforces the point

    And to fail to make the point that (+1) means he is 1 ahead in this poll, not has put on one point since last time

    US polls are all over the place. A primer on which to believe would make a welcome threader.
    That (+1) business is the norm for reporting on US polls, nothing unusual about it.
    I know that and doubtless I will come to take it in my stride between now and November. But it's damnably unBritish and I think best practice is delete it or explain it.
    There's no extra information in it, unlike the British version indicating change since last time. It's as if the Americans can't do subtraction or something

  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440
    Sandpit said:

    Well if Biden and Harris aren’t going to meet with Netanyahu, Trump will take their place.

    https://x.com/tpostmillennial/status/1816070891693912567
    “Trump announces meeting with Netanyahu at Mar-a-Lago Friday”

    Makes sense with each of their constituencies, the GOP is very very pro Israel whereas it's more balanced for the Democrats
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    Firstly, the only bit we could claim any kind of sovereignty to was not a viable unit on its own. Secondly, whatever one thought of the lease arrangement it had undeniably come to an end. And thirdly, as you point out, HK was not exactly defensible. It is ridiculous to argue that she could have done anything else.
    One of the biggest regrets of UK foreign policy was that we never got the freehold to or 999 year lease on Hong Kong.

    The Opium Wars were a real high in UK foreign policy.
    I know you are just trying to wind me up but for me the Opium wars were in many ways as shameful as the slave trade. A real blot of shame.

    The Opium Wars are the foundation story of Communist party Chinese nationalism. I remember wearing a poppy in my suit lapel while attending a conference on my first ever visit to China, which was just before Remembrance Sunday in 2007. I had to do a hell of a lot of explaining.

  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,451
    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Well if Biden and Harris aren’t going to meet with Netanyahu, Trump will take their place.

    https://x.com/tpostmillennial/status/1816070891693912567
    “Trump announces meeting with Netanyahu at Mar-a-Lago Friday”

    Makes sense with each of their constituencies, the GOP is very very pro Israel whereas it's more balanced for the Democrats

    Netanyahu is very much Trump's man. They share many of the same characteristics, including a contempt for democracy and the rule of law.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect

    The Falklands was a gamble. One that had to be taken but by no means a foregone conclusion. We clearly had a much higher quality fighting force, but were lucky in many ways - including with the weather and some of the choices Argentinian military leaders made. When the taskforce set out I remember feeling there was no way it could lose. But when you read the history and hear some of the on-the-ground testimony, it becomes an even greater victory - for Thatcher and those who fought.

    Admiral Henry Leach deserves a lot of credit.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,018
    Lol, I've just noticed that Ted Heath came third in 1987:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_University_of_Oxford_Chancellor_election

    That must have really pissed him off.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    HYUFD said:

    2024 Georgia GE:

    Trump 48% (+1)
    Harris 47%

    Landmark Communications, 7/22
    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815874154132083116

    That is much closer than Biden was polling. It is getting interesting.
    HYUFD appears to post polls selectively for pro trump bias which reinforces the point

    And to fail to make the point that (+1) means he is 1 ahead in this poll, not has put on one point since last time

    US polls are all over the place. A primer on which to believe would make a welcome threader.
    I am writing that, hope to have it ready for the weekend.

    American polls suffer because they do not have an American Polling Council where we get to see all the questions/tables.

    A pollster could ask

    ‘Who are you planning on voting for? The man anointed by God, Donald Trump or the degenerate whore Kamala Harris?’

    and we’d only ever see

    Trump 47%

    Harris 45%
    :lol:
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.
  • DriverDriver Posts: 4,699
    edited July 24
    HYUFD said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Indeed. Wasn't there a rumour that Mandelson was interested?

    I do wonder how many candidates there will be on the ballot paper and whether it will be more than one.
    Boris is campaigning hard for the role. My son advises me many are campaigning equally hard to make sure he doesn't get it.
    Really? I can't think of an electorate less likely to vote for Boris, although I suppose it depends on how many trolls there are at large in the Provinces...
    Oh yes, he has been very high profile. He is, of course, a former President of the Oxford Union. And the student body in Oxford seems very well to do on the whole and with an active Tory group.
    Just 8% of Oxford Uni students voted Tory on 4th July according to a poll for the Student Newspaper and Reform were 5th even further behind.

    Christ Church was the only college where most voted Tory. Rory Stewart might be able to win over LD and Green voters to get it, Boris has no chance

    https://www.oxfordstudent.com/2024/07/23/the-oxford-student-general-election/
    Stewart ruled himself out weeks ago. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/06/21/rory-stewart-will-not-stand-as-oxford-chancellor-candidate/
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    Galtieiri didn’t surrender. The OC on East Falkland did, because he was told Stanley couldn’t hold out.

    He also surrendered on behalf of West Falkland, not realising the British weren’t in such a strong position there.

    I’m told, although I don’t know if it’s true, the first time Galtieri learned of the collapse of his forces was when Thatcher announced it in the Commons.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Indeed. Wasn't there a rumour that Mandelson was interested?

    I do wonder how many candidates there will be on the ballot paper and whether it will be more than one.
    Boris is campaigning hard for the role. My son advises me many are campaigning equally hard to make sure he doesn't get it.
    Really? I can't think of an electorate less likely to vote for Boris, although I suppose it depends on how many trolls there are at large in the Provinces...
    Oh yes, he has been very high profile. He is, of course, a former President of the Oxford Union. And the student body in Oxford seems very well to do on the whole and with an active Tory group.
    It's traditionally not a post for joke candidates.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Indeed. Wasn't there a rumour that Mandelson was interested?

    I do wonder how many candidates there will be on the ballot paper and whether it will be more than one.
    Boris is campaigning hard for the role. My son advises me many are campaigning equally hard to make sure he doesn't get it.
    Really? I can't think of an electorate less likely to vote for Boris, although I suppose it depends on how many trolls there are at large in the Provinces...
    Oh yes, he has been very high profile. He is, of course, a former President of the Oxford Union. And the student body in Oxford seems very well to do on the whole and with an active Tory group.
    It's traditionally not a post for joke candidates.
    They elected George Cave.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    For those dissing Swindon it did have the Oasis Swimming Pool which had some awesome (for the early 80s) slides and a wave machine where I spend several happy days celebrating friends' birthdays. It was shut on New Years' Day though so we couldn't celebrate mine there :disappointed: The eponymous band were named after it.

    The Museum of the Great Western Railway is also worth a visit.

    This is kind of my point. The country is built on towns (large villages, small cities, whatever) and they've all gotten a bit dowdy and run down. Swindon, Devizes, Salisbury, Reading, Northampton, Milton Keynes.
    They aren't intrinsically terrible places though, although Reading is a bit of a sprawl.

    Mrs Flatlander's response to this conversation was (and I quote):

    There are no shitty places, only shitty people.
    There speaks a woman who has never been to Wick
    Funny, but factually inaccurate...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect

    The Falklands was a gamble. One that had to be taken but by no means a foregone conclusion. We clearly had a much higher quality fighting force, but were lucky in many ways - including with the weather and some of the choices Argentinian military leaders made. When the taskforce set out I remember feeling there was no way it could lose. But when you read the history and hear some of the on-the-ground testimony, it becomes an even greater victory - for Thatcher and those who fought.

    The genius (with a big risk of embarrassing failure) that was Operation Black Buck.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Indeed. Wasn't there a rumour that Mandelson was interested?

    I do wonder how many candidates there will be on the ballot paper and whether it will be more than one.
    Boris is campaigning hard for the role. My son advises me many are campaigning equally hard to make sure he doesn't get it.
    Really? I can't think of an electorate less likely to vote for Boris, although I suppose it depends on how many trolls there are at large in the Provinces...
    Oh yes, he has been very high profile. He is, of course, a former President of the Oxford Union. And the student body in Oxford seems very well to do on the whole and with an active Tory group.
    It's traditionally not a post for joke candidates.
    They elected George Cave.
    That's just Asquithian sour grapes. :smile:

    A brief exception, anyway.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
     Anyhoo the current pres of Argentina called Mrs T one of 'the great leaders in the history of humanity' during a debate last year.
    (tho' I don't suppose that has much to do with the Falklands)
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,437
    edited July 24
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,524
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    The Yanks backing us helped.

    I’ve always thought the Argentinians went way too defensive after the sinking of the USS Phoenix.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    edited July 24

    HYUFD said:

    2024 Georgia GE:

    Trump 48% (+1)
    Harris 47%

    Landmark Communications, 7/22
    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815874154132083116

    That is much closer than Biden was polling. It is getting interesting.
    HYUFD appears to post polls selectively for pro trump bias which reinforces the point

    And to fail to make the point that (+1) means he is 1 ahead in this poll, not has put on one point since last time

    US polls are all over the place. A primer on which to believe would make a welcome threader.
    I am writing that, hope to have it ready for the weekend.

    American polls suffer because they do not have an American Polling Council where we get to see all the questions/tables.

    A pollster could ask

    ‘Who are you planning on voting for? The man anointed by God, Donald Trump or the degenerate whore Kamala Harris?’

    and we’d only ever see

    Trump 47%

    Harris 45%
    That would be ambiguous if I didn't know that you're a fan of the Oxford comma (and noting the absence of a second comma here). Otherwise it would be a toss-up between 'the man anointed by God' and 'the degenerate whore Kamala Harris'. I could rule out Donald Trump :wink:
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    This is quite a good parody, if slightly overlong.
    https://x.com/MarshSongs/status/1814682124693217698
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,103
    I shall not seek, and I will not accept, the nomination of my party...
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/SGbWcYtykrc

    Short clip of Nixon on the decline of LBJ, the last serving president to stand aside like Biden (also sounds a bit like Rishi).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    edited July 24

    Chris said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    Surely Thatcher versus a million-string People's Liberation Army would have been an easy victory for Thatcher?
    Not forgetting, one slight rusty Covenanter tank....
    In Honkers? Somewhat upgraded to a Comet, and no doubt bulled to within a few eighths of an inch of the other side of the armour, but, still, hardly frontline.

    https://gwulo.com/media/30069
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,455
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Indeed. A few more bomb fuzes that actually initiated on impact with RN ships/Army facilities ...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,380
    Nigelb said:

    This is quite a good parody, if slightly overlong.
    https://x.com/MarshSongs/status/1814682124693217698

    I dunno, I always find the otherwise excellent JOEPolitics mashups stop a bit early in the song for my liking
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    edited July 24

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    ...
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    Galtieiri didn’t surrender. The OC on East Falkland did, because he was told Stanley couldn’t hold out.

    He also surrendered on behalf of West Falkland, not realising the British weren’t in such a strong position there.

    I’m told, although I don’t know if it’s true, the first time Galtieri learned of the collapse of his forces was when Thatcher announced it in the Commons.
    Fair comment. That was my historical error, I should have referenced Argentina rather than the General. My general point stands.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,661
    geoffw said:

     Anyhoo the current pres of Argentina called Mrs T one of 'the great leaders in the history of humanity' during a debate last year.
    (tho' I don't suppose that has much to do with the Falklands)

    Talking of whom, what about this?

    Milei had a pet Mastiff, which he had cloned. Seriously. Unless this wiki article is a spoof.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conan_(Javier_Milei's_dog)

    Milei had Conan cloned in 2018 and named the six resulting puppies after the original Conan and the economists Milton Friedman, Murray Rothbard, and Robert Lucas Jr.; two of them were named after the latter.[8][9] The sixth dog, who died shortly after, was named Angelito ("little angel").[10] Milei said that he cloned Conan because he understands cloning as "a way of approaching eternity".[6] To do this, he went to a clinic in the United States; the process cost him about $50,000.[6]
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    edited July 24
     
    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
    You called it 'Operation Black Buck'. Nowt to do with general Buck Turgidson I s'pose, crazy though it was?

  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    Not sure you saw the joke which underlay the question.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    Tapi. I was being mischievous by suggesting Taki.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    Not sure you saw the joke which underlay the question.
    Let's not pile on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,632
    geoffw said:

     

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
    You called it 'Operation Black Buck'. Nowt to do with general Buck Turgidson I s'pose, crazy though it was?

    Well, thanks to @Flatlander we’ve seen the Big Board.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    AUKUS LOL

    The Royal Navy is woefully unprepared, in terms of uniform, for the next major naval battle to occur in a heavily wooded area...
    https://x.com/Zaphod2042/status/1815770079398638052
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    This poll obviously assumes Trump gets elected to 2nd term in 2024 and serves at least half of it.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    By Tapi, which is Lord Harris's third carpet chain (Harris Carpets until bought in 1988, Carpetright between 1988 to 2014, Tapi Carpets 2015 onwards)..
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,426
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Indeed. A few more bomb fuzes that actually initiated on impact with RN ships/Army facilities ...
    Though, as it turned out, all the UK Sidewinder shots were from inside the parameters of the older models.

    If the Argentines had had a good supply of drop tanks for their aircraft, on the other hand...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324
    edited July 24
    geoffw said:

     

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
    You called it 'Operation Black Buck'. Nowt to do with general Buck Turgidson I s'pose, crazy though it was?

    I actually don’t know where the name came from ( @Dura_Ace ?), but remember reading about it a few years later as an excited young boy, wondering about those magnificent men in their flying machines.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    This poll obviously assumes Trump gets elected to 2nd term in 2024 and serves at least half of it.
    Why the proviso about serving half?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    GOP news cycle management is woeful.

    Former Trump rival Nikki Haley demands 'Haley Voters for Harris' to 'cease and desist'
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-trump-rival-nikki-haley-demands-haley-voters-harris-cease-desist

    Our members were devoted Haley voters who finally felt their conservative principles represented again when she was running.

    We volunteered and hustled hard for her.

    But just as Haley changed her mind & endorsed Trump, our voters are allowed to do the same. Period.

    https://x.com/EGMatthews/status/1815861836434338204

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324

    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    This poll obviously assumes Trump gets elected to 2nd term in 2024 and serves at least half of it.
    Why the proviso about serving half?
    It’s a misreading of the 22nd amendment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twenty-second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    No person shall be elected to the office of the President more than twice, and no person who has held the office of President, or acted as President, for more than two years of a term to which some other person was elected President shall be elected to the office of the President more than once.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    edited July 24

    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    This poll obviously assumes Trump gets elected to 2nd term in 2024 and serves at least half of it.
    Why the proviso about serving half?
    They're not going to challenge a sitting President Vance (ridiculous notion, I acknowledge) unless he's only in post a few months.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,661

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Traditionally, I believe, it's a lifetime appointment. Certainly his immediate predecessors, Roy Jenkins and Harold Macmillan, chose not to retire. Patten's only 80 - a spring chicken.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,768
    We were discussing the variability of ageing yesterday.
    https://x.com/StevenSingiser/status/1815927218654306719
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    edited July 24
    "'Everyone is excited about her and that scares me': Female Trump voters on Harris"

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erjhZxwf7cc

    Final question is: "If VP Harris wins the election, do you think that would be an honest result?" Answer: "No".
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,688
    edited July 24
    Leon said:

    Apologies if I have missed this, but is anything known about why the soldier was stabbed in Kent? No mention of terrorism, but that doesn't rule it out, surely?

    Drunken thuggery?
    Mental health?
    Family dispute?

    All are orders of magnitude more likely than terrorism.
    Why do you say that? Its not like we've not a previous incident of a soldier stabbed in a terror attack?
    Orders of magnitude more soldiers have been stabbed for the above reasons than for terrorism.
    Randomly in the street? When in uniform?
    He was also “saved by his wife” who was at the
    scene - it must be her terrible screams you can hear in the awful audio

    Put the killer in heavy chains and in total isolation for the rest of his life
    It's a good argument for the death sentence frankly. Make your peace with whomever you need to make it with, then off you pop.

    I feel like that just now, about this, though in general I don’t think I'm in favour of it except for high treason.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,504
    edited July 24

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    Not sure you saw the joke which underlay the question.
    Don’t initiate a pile on.

    Arrgh, preempted
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,061

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    For those dissing Swindon it did have the Oasis Swimming Pool which had some awesome (for the early 80s) slides and a wave machine where I spend several happy days celebrating friends' birthdays. It was shut on New Years' Day though so we couldn't celebrate mine there :disappointed: The eponymous band were named after it.

    The Museum of the Great Western Railway is also worth a visit.

    This is kind of my point. The country is built on towns (large villages, small cities, whatever) and they've all gotten a bit dowdy and run down. Swindon, Devizes, Salisbury, Reading, Northampton, Milton Keynes.
    Salisbury is a city, and not that run down.
    I hope you're right. But the bit around the Tented Market on Commercial St/Market street is a bit ik.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Traditionally, I believe, it's a lifetime appointment. Certainly his immediate predecessors, Roy Jenkins and Harold Macmillan, chose not to retire. Patten's only 80 - a spring chicken.
    Apparently Imran Khan is running from prison.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/07/24/imran-khan-apply-chancellor-oxford-university-from-prison/

    How many graduates of Pakistani origin have a vote, and how many more just like cricket?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    Nigelb said:

    GOP news cycle management is woeful.

    Former Trump rival Nikki Haley demands 'Haley Voters for Harris' to 'cease and desist'
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-trump-rival-nikki-haley-demands-haley-voters-harris-cease-desist

    Our members were devoted Haley voters who finally felt their conservative principles represented again when she was running.

    We volunteered and hustled hard for her.

    But just as Haley changed her mind & endorsed Trump, our voters are allowed to do the same. Period.

    https://x.com/EGMatthews/status/1815861836434338204

    It's not in Haley's gift to present these voters to the orange diaper wearer.
  • eekeek Posts: 27,481

    Leon said:

    Apologies if I have missed this, but is anything known about why the soldier was stabbed in Kent? No mention of terrorism, but that doesn't rule it out, surely?

    Drunken thuggery?
    Mental health?
    Family dispute?

    All are orders of magnitude more likely than terrorism.
    Why do you say that? Its not like we've not a previous incident of a soldier stabbed in a terror attack?
    Orders of magnitude more soldiers have been stabbed for the above reasons than for terrorism.
    Randomly in the street? When in uniform?
    He was also “saved by his wife” who was at the
    scene - it must be her terrible screams you can hear in the awful audio

    Put the killer in heavy chains and in total isolation for the rest of his life
    It's a good argument for the death sentence frankly. Make your peace with whomever you need to make it with, then off you pop.

    I feel like that just now, about this, though in general I don’t think I'm in favour of it except for high treason.
    It's very rare that a case is as clear cut as this with the person arrested at the scene of the crime...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,061

    viewcode said:

    DougSeal said:

    For those dissing Swindon it did have the Oasis Swimming Pool which had some awesome (for the early 80s) slides and a wave machine where I spend several happy days celebrating friends' birthdays. It was shut on New Years' Day though so we couldn't celebrate mine there :disappointed: The eponymous band were named after it.

    The Museum of the Great Western Railway is also worth a visit.

    This is kind of my point. The country is built on towns (large villages, small cities, whatever) and they've all gotten a bit dowdy and run down. Swindon, Devizes, Salisbury, Reading, Northampton, Milton Keynes.
    They aren't intrinsically terrible places though, although Reading is a bit of a sprawl.

    Mrs Flatlander's response to this conversation was (and I quote):

    There are no shitty places, only shitty people.
    Never been to Middlesbrough, then (ducks)
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,528
    I can't find out anything about the Kent stabbing on the BBC website here in Finland. It assumes that people logging in from abroad don't want to see any British news!
    The Guardian does have the story though.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,358
    "USA - Presidential Election 2024 - Winning Party"

    Rep 1.67
    Dem 2.6

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.178176964
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324
    eek said:

    Leon said:

    Apologies if I have missed this, but is anything known about why the soldier was stabbed in Kent? No mention of terrorism, but that doesn't rule it out, surely?

    Drunken thuggery?
    Mental health?
    Family dispute?

    All are orders of magnitude more likely than terrorism.
    Why do you say that? Its not like we've not a previous incident of a soldier stabbed in a terror attack?
    Orders of magnitude more soldiers have been stabbed for the above reasons than for terrorism.
    Randomly in the street? When in uniform?
    He was also “saved by his wife” who was at the
    scene - it must be her terrible screams you can hear in the awful audio

    Put the killer in heavy chains and in total isolation for the rest of his life
    It's a good argument for the death sentence frankly. Make your peace with whomever you need to make it with, then off you pop.

    I feel like that just now, about this, though in general I don’t think I'm in favour of it except for high treason.
    It's very rare that a case is as clear cut as this with the person arrested at the scene of the crime...
    Not since the last soldier in uniform was murdered with a large knife, and the terrorists were quite literally caught red-handed.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
    You called it 'Operation Black Buck'. Nowt to do with general Buck Turgidson I s'pose, crazy though it was?

    I actually don’t know where the name came from ( @Dura_Ace ?), but remember reading about it a few years later as an excited young boy, wondering about those magnificent men in their flying machines.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
    Probably the name of the pub where they had the lock-in and thought it up while hammered.

    It didn't really achieve very much beyond demonstrating that mainland Argentina was in striking range. The main motivation behind it was to get the RAF somehow, anyhow directly involved in the conflict. They had just bet the farm on Tornado then discovered it was useless in this fight hence the Scrapheap Challenge of BB. A senior Tornado mate was reported to have said, "It's not really our sort of war."
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,212
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    As Trump will be ineligible if he wins as Presidents can only serve 2 terms under the US constitution.

    If Trump wins then yes I would expect VP Vance to be GOP nominee in 2028, if Trump-Vance lose then I think DeSantis is favourite though Haley would also run again.

    Therefore do not be surprised if DeSantis and Haley would not be too upset if Harris beats Trump in November
    If Trump loses, one would hope the GOP finally sees sense and turns its back on proto-fascist personality-cult populism. That would mean picking Haley over DeSantis, Vance or Ramaswamy. (Cruz and Rubio are yesterday's men.)
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,025
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    I doubt it, for starters we had more aircraft carriers and submarines and better trained troops than the Argentines did. As soon as Marines landed in the Falklands it was pretty much over.

    We also had nuclear weapons and Argentina didn't
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,324
    edited July 24
    Man arrested after the crash between a car and a motorbike that killed all six occupants of both vehicles. Police are appealing for anyone who saw a grey Porsche 911 in the area to come forward.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13667573/Man-arrested-fireball-crash-killed-family-four.html

    One might suppose that a Porsche was seen driving ‘badly’ in the area by at least one witness.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,688

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    I didn’t know Carpetright had gone bust.

    That’s sad news. I had my whole house carpeted by them when I moved in. Decent price and the carpets are still doing a great job nine years later.

    Hasn't it in part been saved by Spectator Correspondent and swordsman, Tapi?

    Have I got that right?
    54 stores out of around 260 have been bought. Don’t know by whom.
    Not sure you saw the joke which underlay the question.
    Don’t initiate a pile on.

    Arrgh, preempted
    Someone needs to put the freshness back in their pun game.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,470

    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Here's a poll for HYUFD

    Total nonsense, of course.

    2028 National Republican Primary:

    JD Vance 25%
    Ron DeSantis 14%
    Vivek Ramaswamy 10%
    Nikki Haley 9%
    Ted Cruz 4%
    Sarah Huckabee Sanders 3%
    Marco Rubio 2%
    Tim Scott 2%
    Josh Hawley 2%
    Glenn Youngkin 1%
    Byron Donalds 1%
    Katie Britt 1%

    https://x.com/Politics_Polls/status/1815791813279547659

    And why no Trump ?

    As Trump will be ineligible if he wins as Presidents can only serve 2 terms under the US constitution.

    If Trump wins then yes I would expect VP Vance to be GOP nominee in 2028, if Trump-Vance lose then I think DeSantis is favourite though Haley would also run again.

    Therefore do not be surprised if DeSantis and Haley would not be too upset if Harris beats Trump in November
    If Trump loses, one would hope the GOP finally sees sense and turns its back on proto-fascist personality-cult populism. That would mean picking Haley over DeSantis, Vance or Ramaswamy. (Cruz and Rubio are yesterday's men.)
    I suspect the GOP will actually double down on proto-fascist personality cult. It will be an election that was "stolen" and there will be probably civil unrest.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,440

    Nigelb said:

    GOP news cycle management is woeful.

    Former Trump rival Nikki Haley demands 'Haley Voters for Harris' to 'cease and desist'
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/former-trump-rival-nikki-haley-demands-haley-voters-harris-cease-desist

    Our members were devoted Haley voters who finally felt their conservative principles represented again when she was running.

    We volunteered and hustled hard for her.

    But just as Haley changed her mind & endorsed Trump, our voters are allowed to do the same. Period.

    https://x.com/EGMatthews/status/1815861836434338204

    It's not in Haley's gift to present these voters to the orange diaper wearer.
    The idea she didn't realise it was always a Democrat GOTV operation is quite comical.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,473
    Dura_Ace said:

    Sandpit said:

    geoffw said:

     

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    F. Me an uberite Thatcherite so called Communist.

    Xi : "We cannot engage in welfarism. In the past, high welfare in some populist Latin American countries fostered lazy people who got something for nothing. Their national finances were overwhelmed, and these countries fell into the middle-income trap. Once welfare benefits go up, they never come down,”

    No wonder some Tories were so sinophillic.

    Thatcher was the worst Sinophile, she gave away Hong Kong.
    Thatcher was a realist unlike you. She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily and keep the Falklands but taking on the over a million strong People's Liberation Army to keep Hong Kong was a rather different prospect
    "She knew she could beat Argentina relatively easily".

    I am of an age where I knew a number of commissioned officers who were posted to Stanley in the aftermath of the war. I was told that we were on the verge of running out (within hours) of ammunition and supplies, and discussions were underway in high level military circles to withdraw and then Galtieri unexpected surrendered.

    My understanding is the margins were very, very fine.
    A couple more successful Excocet strikes, and the whole thing could have been over before it started. Without the US supply of Sidewinders (which was far from guaranteed when the task force set off), that would have been fairly likely, I think ?

    There were a few such inflexion points.

    I don't think HYUFD has a grasp of what a shoestring operation it was on both sides.
    Quite literally, in some aspects:



    Edit: Sandpit got there first
    But you got the picture, which in this case is definitely worth a thousand words.

    The chances of someone having to ditch a plane, in the middle of very literally nowhere, were a long way from zero, and many of those involved had little experience of air-to-air refuelling.

    The plan was totally bonkers, and it’s to the credit of everyone involved that they agreed to run with it.
    You called it 'Operation Black Buck'. Nowt to do with general Buck Turgidson I s'pose, crazy though it was?

    I actually don’t know where the name came from ( @Dura_Ace ?), but remember reading about it a few years later as an excited young boy, wondering about those magnificent men in their flying machines.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Black_Buck
    Probably the name of the pub where they had the lock-in and thought it up while hammered.

    It didn't really achieve very much beyond demonstrating that mainland Argentina was in striking range. The main motivation behind it was to get the RAF somehow, anyhow directly involved in the conflict. They had just bet the farm on Tornado then discovered it was useless in this fight hence the Scrapheap Challenge of BB. A senior Tornado mate was reported to have said, "It's not really our sort of war."
    I'd always assumed Black Buck was named as a Rainbow Code, although looking at the Wiki, it might have been a decade or two too late for that.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rainbow_Code

    But there is a rather darker meaning to the term:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Buck

    (My favourite rainbow code was Blue Peacock, or the chicken-powered nuclear bomb...)
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Sandpit said:

    Man arrested after the crash between a car and a motorbike that killed all six occupants of both vehicles. Police are appealing for anyone who saw a grey Porsche 911 in the area to come forward.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13667573/Man-arrested-fireball-crash-killed-family-four.html

    One might suppose that a Porsche was seen driving ‘badly’ in the area by at least one witness.

    Who the fuck buys a grey 911? Some people...

    Unless it's the famous 'Scheifer' Gray on a 930. That would be ok, I suppose.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,524

    NEW THREAD

  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,274
    Speaking of somewhat-less-than-open candidate selection . . .

    Have been reading up on an early 20th-century American political boss, namely Ed Crump of Memphis, Tennessee.

    Mr. Crump (what everybody called him, probably even his wife) ruled the roost in Memphis and Shelby County for decades. AND was a major political force - indeed THE major individual politico - in Tennessee state politics. Crump was far more honest than most big city bosses, and was truly dedicated and diligent in planning and providing for public services and economic growth for Memphis and it's region. What was the secret of his political success? Mobilizing working -class Whites AND Black voters in support of his candidates, while at the same time pleasing or at least assuaging the White elites AND middle-class. While he was NOT a civil rights pioneer, Crump was respected and even liked by the Black community, because he actually did something for them in return for their taxes AND support; PLUS his organization paid the poll tax required then in Tennessee and most Southern states, for less affluent supporters, White and especially Black.

    Anyway, in 1940, the mayor of Memphis, resigned after tangling with Mr. Crump. Deputy mayor (a Crump man) succeeded, until the next election.

    Crump's first choice was the local Democratic congressman (Republicans being thin on the ground back then, at least among eligible voters). However, the Congressman pointed out that his vote was needed on a key vote for one of FDR's defense AND pro-Allied measures (prior to Pearl Harbor).

    So what to do?

    > Mr. Crump decided that HE would run for mayor (he'd been previously elected before WWI) even though he had no interest in doing the job. He ran, and won with the usual landslide for a Crump candidate.

    > Then shortly after being sworn in - and after the critical vote in Congress - Mayor Crump resigned, and the Memphis city commission selected as his replacement . . . the Congressman. Who then resigned his seat in the US House; the subsequent election being won by . . . wait for it . . . Mr. Crump's chosen candidate.

    Crump's machine started to sputter in 1948, when he endorsed Dixiecrat Strom Thurmond for POTUS versus Harry Truman. Many of Mr. Crump's White and even more of his Black followers refused to follow him in the Fall, and thereafter. He didn't lose his political grip - or widespread respect - until his death in 1950s.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,875
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Tenuously related, Fat Pang stands down as chancellor of Oxford in October and graduates get to elect his successor. Truly a golden year for democracy fans.

    Indeed. Wasn't there a rumour that Mandelson was interested?

    I do wonder how many candidates there will be on the ballot paper and whether it will be more than one.
    Boris is campaigning hard for the role. My son advises me many are campaigning equally hard to make sure he doesn't get it.
    Really? I can't think of an electorate less likely to vote for Boris, although I suppose it depends on how many trolls there are at large in the Provinces...
    It's traditionally not a post for joke candidates.
    Why were 5 out of 10 Chancellors of OU between 2024 and 2052 called "Ralph"?
This discussion has been closed.