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It is looking like a Kamala Harris coronation – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    But the same point does apply, only from the other side, the income side.

    Imagine I'm an investor looking at property. I will value it as the NPV in perpetuity of the rental income it will generate. To work that out - the NPV - I'll take the annual rent and divide it by a suitable yield. The yield I use will depend on where interest rates are. The lower this is the higher will be the value of the property.

    Or look at it this way if it's easier. If I can only earn peanuts on my cash in the bank it will make me more likely to want to buy property instead. This pushes up prices. Conversely if rates were now to double or triple (as they have) I'll be more likely to want to switch out of property into cash. This will depress prices.

    This is not an opinion, it's just how it works. This is how you value an asset. The income it will generate capitalized at a suitable yield. With that yield depending on the interest rate environment.
    Now that should be the dynamic, but why with our rapid rate rises have prices not declined in line with the formula?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    REally? I would have thought it was a great chance to say she was also running.
    She's announced that already. TBF to her I think she wants to let Biden say his peace from the Oval Office once he's "recovered" from "COVID" (Delete the quote marks as you like)
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    Easy - If you build enough then people have a choice where to live and those who buy too many are left holding houses nobody wants to let.

    So the owner needs to pay the bills and taxes for the house but has no tenant paying them.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Andy_JS said:

    Nigelb said:

    In a move which bemuses those of us over 60...

    Charli XCX backs Harris: ‘Kamala IS brat’
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4785802-charli-xcx-kamala-harris-brat-biden-2024/

    It bemuses people a lot younger than 60.
    What language is that, please?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited July 22
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Gretchen Whitmer
    @gretchenwhitmer

    Today, not only am I fired up to endorse @KamalaHarris for President of the United States, I’m proud to serve as a co-chair of her campaign.

    In Vice President Harris, Michigan voters have a candidate they can count on to lower their costs, protect their freedoms, and build an economy that works for working people. Donald Trump is a convicted felon who stokes violence, overturned Roe, and drove our economy into the ground. We cannot let him anywhere near the White House.

    Vice President Harris, you have my full support. Let’s win this."

    https://x.com/gretchenwhitmer/status/1815408498420707623
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    REally? I would have thought it was a great chance to say she was also running.
    Quite. That's the first hurdle she has to clear, and there were other things for her to discus
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Will TheScreamingEagles be okay to open up the donation pot or provide the link to pay.

    It’s something I’ll ask Robert to set up.
    With 5% (or maybe 50%!) earmarked for the Political Betting Very Special Fund for Misfortunate Punters and Perplexed Psephologists, which in turn will sponsor the long-awaited PB By-Election Trans-Potation Bottle Bus.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,648
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
    Corgis too. These little bastards are actually bred to do that.
    Didn't Princess Anne's Corgi go around murdering other dogs? I had a very drunken night in a bothy in the Cairngorms and was warned about the Beast of Balmoral.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    REally? I would have thought it was a great chance to say she was also running.
    She's announced that already. TBF to her I think she wants to let Biden say his peace from the Oval Office once he's "recovered" from "COVID" (Delete the quote marks as you like)
    Why the quote marks at all? Do you doubt that Biden actually has a case of COVID?
  • Charlie XCX was one of the worst performing artists on her label and was apparently very difficult to work with, so says a friend who worked with her
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    Of course you can, if supply exceeds demand and if supply can be easily created.

    My first HDTV I bought cost over £1000, in then-money, which would be well over two grand in today's prices. Today you can get a bigger and better one for £200 in today-money.

    Why hasn't the price of TVs gone up as we can afford to pay more? Why has it gone down instead? Because there's healthy competition in that market, but there is not in the housing market.

    There's no reason why house prices can't go down by the same amount as TV prices have. If the barriers to entry to the market were removed so any skilled tradesperson could just build a house for anyone who wants one, rather than need an army of lawyers and a forest of paperwork first to get "permission" to do so, then they would come down.
    Mass market consumer goods to income generating asset isn't a good comparison.
    That's the mistake in your thinking, both are consumer goods. Consumers want a roof over their head and a screen to watch shows on.

    If there's sufficient construction of homes then competition exists just the same as competition exists for any other good.

    Both are assets generating incomes for those who own them who want to sell them/let them, but only if consumers wish to do so - which if there's sufficient competition then consumers have other alternatives instead.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 22
    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Pulpstar said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    REally? I would have thought it was a great chance to say she was also running.
    She's announced that already. TBF to her I think she wants to let Biden say his peace from the Oval Office once he's "recovered" from "COVID" (Delete the quote marks as you like)
    Say his peace? He should declare waugh.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,648
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:
    What do people without driving licenses get?
    Reminds me of cycle2work. The most regressive active travel policy ever.

    *Browes titanium gravel bikes at 42% off*
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
    Corgis too. These little bastards are actually bred to do that.
    Didn't Princess Anne's Corgi go around murdering other dogs? I had a very drunken night in a bothy in the Cairngorms and was warned about the Beast of Balmoral.
    Chap I knew used to bring his Jack Russell into the pub. Absolutely fine until someone else brought their rescue greyhound in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
    Corgis too. These little bastards are actually bred to do that.
    Didn't Princess Anne's Corgi go around murdering other dogs? I had a very drunken night in a bothy in the Cairngorms and was warned about the Beast of Balmoral.
    Are you sure that isn't Andrew ?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    Have they hired Andrea Leadsom?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874
    Dadge said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    One of the scandals in Birmingham is the thousand flats in Perry Barr built in 2022 and still empty. People are willing to buy them (with a mortgage) for £180k but lenders aren't willing to value them above £130k. In the end, they're all going to go to cash buyers who will rent them out or put them on AirBnB. The govt needs to do something soon to make sure young people can own homes like the previous generations could.
    Now we're getting somewhere, thank you my friend.

    The "why don't we build, build, build?" brigade clearly don't understand what's really going on in housing. Putting spades in the ground isn't the problem - putting keys in the front doors is.

    The absurdity of having so much empty newbuild at a time when we are told demand is unprecedented is the absurdity of market driven economics.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,679
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Why didn't he? Genuinely curious.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    A number of what I might consider to be Trump-leaning people in my orbit (that is, not full on Trumpers, but they raise Trump related talking points in a 'just asking questions' kind of way) don't seem to have settled on a line to take in criticising the Biden-Harris debacle, eg criticise the coronation of Harris, or Biden staying on, or criticising him being 'forced' out, I am curious what the strongest attack line will end up being.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Why didn't he? Genuinely curious.
    I've not followed the story at all either.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    Not in the USA. Perfectly normal, the only shock is she is not already in Congress with MTG and the others.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited July 22

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Why didn't he? Genuinely curious.

    The machete attack carried out by teenager Jay Slater and others in 2021 could have been fatal, but for the heroic intervention of a young girl who threw herself onto the victim's body to save him.

    Her bravery was hailed by the judge at the trial of Jay and seven others, who brutally attacked him with machetes, an axe and a golf club.

    Judge Philip Parry commended the 15-year-old girl's courage, saying: 'This was an act that undoubtedly prevented him from being more seriously injured or killed.'


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13576425/inside-gang-attach-machete-jay-slater-spared-jail-brutal-beating-skull-exposed.html
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    stodge said:

    Dadge said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    One of the scandals in Birmingham is the thousand flats in Perry Barr built in 2022 and still empty. People are willing to buy them (with a mortgage) for £180k but lenders aren't willing to value them above £130k. In the end, they're all going to go to cash buyers who will rent them out or put them on AirBnB. The govt needs to do something soon to make sure young people can own homes like the previous generations could.
    Now we're getting somewhere, thank you my friend.

    The "why don't we build, build, build?" brigade clearly don't understand what's really going on in housing. Putting spades in the ground isn't the problem - putting keys in the front doors is.

    The absurdity of having so much empty newbuild at a time when we are told demand is unprecedented is the absurdity of market driven economics.
    Except its not true, we don't have so much empty newbuild.

    The proportion of empty houses is exceptionally low still. It should be much, much higher. For that we need to build millions more homes.

    There isn't a single county in the entire frigging country with enough empty homes.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:
    What do people without driving licenses get?
    Reminds me of cycle2work. The most regressive active travel policy ever.

    *Browes titanium gravel bikes at 42% off*
    It's awesome, especially now there's neither a £1k limit nor a 1 year limit. I got a (not technically, but unnoticeable) free Orbea out of it. Used primarily for my commute from County Durham to Watford, of course.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,243
    GIN1138 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Farage called her Black then half-corrected himself to African-American but made a mess of it because it is not a term we use over here, so it is not in his muscle memory. I'd give him a pass here, even though I disagree with his wider sentiment.
    What I'd like to know is why Farage is even commenting and thinks the next US Presidential election is any of his business?

    He quite rightly criticized Obama's intervention in our EU referendum but is perfectly happy to stick his nose into America politics whenever he feels like it.
    To be fair people pay attention to Obama. Cheap shots from the peanut gallery not so much.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,714

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,648

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    They must be tempted to go all in and pick BootyJudge for VP.

    It would be like the confused juvenile lion getting smacked over the head by hundreds of zebra.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,874

    stodge said:

    Dadge said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    One of the scandals in Birmingham is the thousand flats in Perry Barr built in 2022 and still empty. People are willing to buy them (with a mortgage) for £180k but lenders aren't willing to value them above £130k. In the end, they're all going to go to cash buyers who will rent them out or put them on AirBnB. The govt needs to do something soon to make sure young people can own homes like the previous generations could.
    Now we're getting somewhere, thank you my friend.

    The "why don't we build, build, build?" brigade clearly don't understand what's really going on in housing. Putting spades in the ground isn't the problem - putting keys in the front doors is.

    The absurdity of having so much empty newbuild at a time when we are told demand is unprecedented is the absurdity of market driven economics.
    Except its not true, we don't have so much empty newbuild.

    The proportion of empty houses is exceptionally low still. It should be much, much higher. For that we need to build millions more homes.

    There isn't a single county in the entire frigging country with enough empty homes.
    The question really is whose figures do you believe. I've seen a figure of one million empty dwellings in England but I've also seen much lower figures.

    Part of this is the rise in the number of second homes and one of the questions might be what carrot or what stick (if any) could you offer to bring some of those houses onto the open market?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    I'm looking forward to their describing Beshear (if it's him) as a DEI pick.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 22

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    It wasn't quite so blunt or probably intended with such naked malice, so the comparison is not entirely fair on Leadsom, but in broad strokes yes.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    At least some portion of their campaign will do that, hopefully it is a large portion.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
    Except it's not in this case.

    Interest rates collapsed in 2007 and house prices to earnings ratios didn't rise, they actually began to fall from their peaks and took years to catch back up.

    Supply and demand are the problem. Demand surged in 2002 onwards due to both demographics and migration, but supply did not keep up.
  • I am feeling a familiar campaign to what the Tories tried to do with Keir Starmer.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    A number of what I might consider to be Trump-leaning people in my orbit (that is, not full on Trumpers, but they raise Trump related talking points in a 'just asking questions' kind of way) don't seem to have settled on a line to take in criticising the Biden-Harris debacle, eg criticise the coronation of Harris, or Biden staying on, or criticising him being 'forced' out, I am curious what the strongest attack line will end up being.

    Rest assured, intrepid GOP pollsters are on the case, and giving hapless survey targets the third degree from sea to shining sea re: this Brave New World.

    Am personally waiting for Trafalgar to report their "findings" . . .
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Eabhal said:

    I've been really surprised by all the fire and energy around Harris as a candidate. Clearly coordinated, but there is a kind of desperate verve to the online messaging. People are keen to go into battle against Trump.

    Will it last?

    The anti-Harris peeps are also getting going. See the following tweet from Musk, where Harris describes who she is and what she's wearing in a meeting.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815193874366640591

    It turns out she was addressing a meeting of disabled people, some of whom were blind.

    Musk is a real ****.
    Indeed. A douche who supports a douche.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    I am feeling a familiar campaign to what the Tories tried to do with Keir Starmer.

    Worked well!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 22
    One thought about these just plain distasteful attacks that you get in american politics, is that whilst we are not at that point, I don't think we're as far away from it as we could be. See even some otherwise sensible people getting mad about things like Mordaunt and Raynor sharing a friendly post debate conversation, as indicating their political disagreements were performative.

    Ostensible civility can still be a cover for some extreme rudeness, but some people even here see baseline respect for an opponent as bad. Thankfully a small number.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Why didn't he? Genuinely curious.
    Proven:

    "A man who had his “skull split open” in a machete attack carried out by a gang including Jay Slater has broken his silence on the desperate search for the teenager who vanished in Tenerife.

    The missing 19-year-old was part of a group of eight people who attacked Tom Hilton, then 17, with a machete, golf clubs and an axe in Rishton, Lancashire, in 2021.

    The apprentice bricklayer, from Oswaldtwistle, was handed an 18-month community order with 25 days of rehabilitation activities and 150 hours of unpaid work for his role in the violent disorder."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/jay-slater-machete-attack-victim-tiktok-trolls-b2569680.html

    Allegedly:

    He was involved in drug dealing and the thievery of high-end watches on Tenerife, which is why he was at a remote house of two men he had only just met.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    You have the history slightly wrong. Interest rates were at historic lows in the decade before the crisis. It was initially a financial bubble that was then propped up by demand-side factors like immigration.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Dadge said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    One of the scandals in Birmingham is the thousand flats in Perry Barr built in 2022 and still empty. People are willing to buy them (with a mortgage) for £180k but lenders aren't willing to value them above £130k. In the end, they're all going to go to cash buyers who will rent them out or put them on AirBnB. The govt needs to do something soon to make sure young people can own homes like the previous generations could.
    Now we're getting somewhere, thank you my friend.

    The "why don't we build, build, build?" brigade clearly don't understand what's really going on in housing. Putting spades in the ground isn't the problem - putting keys in the front doors is.

    The absurdity of having so much empty newbuild at a time when we are told demand is unprecedented is the absurdity of market driven economics.
    Except its not true, we don't have so much empty newbuild.

    The proportion of empty houses is exceptionally low still. It should be much, much higher. For that we need to build millions more homes.

    There isn't a single county in the entire frigging country with enough empty homes.
    The question really is whose figures do you believe. I've seen a figure of one million empty dwellings in England but I've also seen much lower figures.

    Part of this is the rise in the number of second homes and one of the questions might be what carrot or what stick (if any) could you offer to bring some of those houses onto the open market?
    You say that like its a lot, one million empty dwellings is a pathetically low figure.

    We should have four million plus empty dwellings.

    10% of dwellings being empty is a healthy ratio, there isn't a single county in the entire country with that many.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    Cicero said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've been really surprised by all the fire and energy around Harris as a candidate. Clearly coordinated, but there is a kind of desperate verve to the online messaging. People are keen to go into battle against Trump.

    Will it last?

    The anti-Harris peeps are also getting going. See the following tweet from Musk, where Harris describes who she is and what she's wearing in a meeting.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815193874366640591

    It turns out she was addressing a meeting of disabled people, some of whom were blind.

    Musk is a real ****.
    Indeed. A douche who supports a douche.
    Musk appears to believe anything he reads which supports his opinions. I hope for his businesses he is very different when on the job.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    But the same point does apply, only from the other side, the income side.

    Imagine I'm an investor looking at property. I will value it as the NPV in perpetuity of the rental income it will generate. To work that out - the NPV - I'll take the annual rent and divide it by a suitable yield. The yield I use will depend on where interest rates are. The lower this is the higher will be the value of the property.

    Or look at it this way if it's easier. If I can only earn peanuts on my cash in the bank it will make me more likely to want to buy property instead. This pushes up prices. Conversely if rates were now to double or triple (as they have) I'll be more likely to want to switch out of property into cash. This will depress prices.

    This is not an opinion, it's just how it works. This is how you value an asset. The income it will generate capitalized at a suitable yield. With that yield depending on the interest rate environment.
    Now that should be the dynamic, but why with our rapid rate rises have prices not declined in line with the formula?
    I'd say that's mainly because of 2 things: General inflation is working in the opposite direction. Owners are reluctant to take lower prices than everyone got used to and they don't sell. Volumes take the strain more than prices. Probable impact? - rather than a large and speedy negative correction we get a longish period of quite stable prices, either static or rises below the rise in wages and prices in general. Which wouldn't be such a terrible outcome imo.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Kamala Harris is 59.

    So yes, young by the standards of this race.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
  • DoubleCarpetDoubleCarpet Posts: 888
    edited July 22
    kle4 said:

    One thought about these just plain distasteful attacks that you get in american politics, is that whilst we are not at that point, I don't think we're as far away from it as we could be. See even some otherwise sensible people getting mad about things like Mordaunt and Raynor sharing a friendly post debate conversation, as indicating their political disagreements were performative.

    Ostensible civility can still be a cover for some extreme rudeness, but some people even here see baseline respect for an opponent as bad. Thankfully a small number.

    People love to get angry about things they have no control over.

    "What can I get angry about next?"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    Amazing what used to destroy a campaign in those days. Who was that chap who lost support because he yelled loudly in a way that sounded embarrassing on TV?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    One thought about these just plain distasteful attacks that you get in american politics, is that whilst we are not at that point, I don't think we're as far away from it as we could be. See even some otherwise sensible people getting mad about things like Mordaunt and Raynor sharing a friendly post debate conversation, as indicating their political disagreements were performative.

    Ostensible civility can still be a cover for some extreme rudeness, but some people even here see baseline respect for an opponent as bad. Thankfully a small number.

    People love to get angry about things they have no control over.

    "What can I get angry about next?"
    Indeed. Exhausting stuff though.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,956
    kle4 said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    Not in the USA. Perfectly normal, the only shock is she is not already in Congress with MTG and the others.
    Just for added context the ‘other woman’ in the pic is Montel Williams’ daughter. These people really don’t care about the truth or facts, the more luridly dishonest the better.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've been really surprised by all the fire and energy around Harris as a candidate. Clearly coordinated, but there is a kind of desperate verve to the online messaging. People are keen to go into battle against Trump.

    Will it last?

    The anti-Harris peeps are also getting going. See the following tweet from Musk, where Harris describes who she is and what she's wearing in a meeting.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815193874366640591

    It turns out she was addressing a meeting of disabled people, some of whom were blind.

    Musk is a real ****.
    Indeed. A douche who supports a douche.
    Musk appears to believe anything he reads which supports his opinions. I hope for his businesses he is very different when on the job.
    Well, he has also been extremely ruthless in taking intellectual property from discoverers and founders and exploiting his gains in a way that could be described, at best, as ungentlemanly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    kle4 said:

    Cicero said:

    Eabhal said:

    I've been really surprised by all the fire and energy around Harris as a candidate. Clearly coordinated, but there is a kind of desperate verve to the online messaging. People are keen to go into battle against Trump.

    Will it last?

    The anti-Harris peeps are also getting going. See the following tweet from Musk, where Harris describes who she is and what she's wearing in a meeting.

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815193874366640591

    It turns out she was addressing a meeting of disabled people, some of whom were blind.

    Musk is a real ****.
    Indeed. A douche who supports a douche.
    Musk appears to believe anything he reads which supports his opinions. I hope for his businesses he is very different when on the job.
    It's only a couple of years back that he declared Trump too old to run again ("far too old to be chief exec of anything, let alone the US"), and said DeSantis would wipe the floor electorally.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,904
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
    That is the heart of the problem. Property is not an investment, or ought not to be. Property is just a place for people to live.

    The answer, imho, is to tax land for all it is worth, whether it has been built on or not. Once we, the people through the planning authorities, have identified a piece of land as appropriate for development, we ought to tax it as thought it had been developed. That would end the nonsense about developers just sitting on lan without building when they already have been granted permission, and in passing, "investors" who just buy up property and leave it empty while theyr wait for its value to rise. A lot of them forgeigners, criminals and tax dodgers, of course.

    Labour, at one stage, was considering Land Site Value Taxation, but I think they are much too timid to do anythng about it.

    Fortunately, we now have a lot of Lib Dem MPs to keep making the point.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    M
    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Or the begging for more money to ‘give him the send off he deserves’ !!

    https://x.com/mcelderrytruth/status/1815002899920884008?s=61
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    The US has elected childless Presidents before but the last one was Warren Harding who left office in 1923
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    You were highly doubting Buttigieg would endorse Harris this morning.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,401
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    Amazing what used to destroy a campaign in those days. Who was that chap who lost support because he yelled loudly in a way that sounded embarrassing on TV?
    Howard Dean.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,134

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
    Except it's not in this case.

    Interest rates collapsed in 2007 and house prices to earnings ratios didn't rise, they actually began to fall from their peaks and took years to catch back up.

    Supply and demand are the problem. Demand surged in 2002 onwards due to both demographics and migration, but supply did not keep up.
    We can pick this up again when you've educated yourself on how yields impact property valuation. As I say, it won't take you long. Just give me a shout.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    Amazing what used to destroy a campaign in those days. Who was that chap who lost support because he yelled loudly in a way that sounded embarrassing on TV?
    Howard Dean in 2004, following his poor showing in Iowa precinct caucuses, which failed to achieve expectations:

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/transcoded/3/3f/DeanScream.ogg/DeanScream.ogg.mp3


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_Dean
  • Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    Cripes. Unless it is actually true that is monumentally defamatory .

    (which is why I am chickening out of repeating the link)

  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2024/06/27/biden-neil-kinnock-plagiarism-advice-qa-00165176
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Eabhal said:

    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:
    What do people without driving licenses get?
    Reminds me of cycle2work. The most regressive active travel policy ever.

    *Browes titanium gravel bikes at 42% off*
    Well I got my bike through it and I’m rather grateful for it.
  • EScrymgeourEScrymgeour Posts: 141

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    It's verboten to campaign in the grounds of the White house.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    ClippP said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
    That is the heart of the problem. Property is not an investment, or ought not to be. Property is just a place for people to live.

    The answer, imho, is to tax land for all it is worth, whether it has been built on or not. Once we, the people through the planning authorities, have identified a piece of land as appropriate for development, we ought to tax it as thought it had been developed. That would end the nonsense about developers just sitting on lan without building when they already have been granted permission, and in passing, "investors" who just buy up property and leave it empty while theyr wait for its value to rise. A lot of them forgeigners, criminals and tax dodgers, of course.

    Labour, at one stage, was considering Land Site Value Taxation, but I think they are much too timid to do anythng about it.

    Fortunately, we now have a lot of Lib Dem MPs to keep making the point.
    As long as we live in a free society, property will be an investment. People will pay a price that reflects what they expect to benefit in future, and the benefits are really good. You can only stop that dynamic by abolishing private property in housing or by introducing state control of where people are allowed to live.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    Taz said:

    M

    carnforth said:

    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture

    Only the New Statesman could write a whole article about Jay Slater without actually mentioning why he didn't garner the usual amount of sympathy.
    Or the begging for more money to ‘give him the send off he deserves’ !!

    https://x.com/mcelderrytruth/status/1815002899920884008?s=61
    The quoted £6000 cost of repatriation of the body is a good reminder to keep your travel insurance up to date.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,070

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    Biden should have toughed that out, and just said he was deliberately riffing on Kinnock's line.

    I listened to the speech again over the weekend, and honestly couldn't understand what the fuss was about.


  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    Status changes can result in substantial support changes sometimes. See Starmer's net approval ratings once he took office as PM vs before he did.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    edited July 22
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
    Correlation is not causation.

    House price to earning ration over the past quarter of a century is not linked to interest rates, except for the fact that interest rates fell after price/earning rates surged.

    Supply and demand OTOH is causation.
    It's both in this case. Look, if you won't allow yourself to take any insights from me please look up how property is valued from an investment perspective. It won't take you long to get the gist. You'll see that yields/rates are key.
    Except it's not in this case.

    Interest rates collapsed in 2007 and house prices to earnings ratios didn't rise, they actually began to fall from their peaks and took years to catch back up.

    Supply and demand are the problem. Demand surged in 2002 onwards due to both demographics and migration, but supply did not keep up.
    We can pick this up again when you've educated yourself on how yields impact property valuation. As I say, it won't take you long. Just give me a shout.
    I'm educated on how it impacts it, its part of what I studied for my Masters.

    I'm also educated enough to know that it doesn't dwarf supply and demand, hence why there was for years a positive relationship between interest rates and price/earning ratios rather than an inverse one.

    You acting like its the be-all and end-all of the matter is just complete nonsense. That's where you're making the mistake, its a factor on supply and demand but only a factor.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 22

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
    It could be 100% but having the wrong political opinions render that for naught for some people, over here too.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,297
    kinabalu said:



    Its over HYUFD.

    Kamala should be favourite now to be next POTUS.

    My gut tends to agree, but the objective evidence is with @HYUFD atm.

    Albeit the evidence is fairly thin. This is why Biden should have stood down as POTUS too. Give her time to become a known quantity.

    I would not be placing a bet at these prices, I am short Trump and long Kamala though. I expect to be able to short him significantly more in the 1.45 region in the near future, although it would be nice if I'm wrong about that.
    Note that NYT and other media are reporting, that key reason Biden decided to withdraw from the race, were his campaign's own polling in battleground states. Which reportedly convinced him that following his disastrous debate versus Trump, he was on track to lose to DJT in November.
    Yes. Here’s my theory on Joe Biden’s ‘journey’, see what you think.

    He did intend to be a one term president - a ‘bridge’ - but this changed when Donald Trump came back into play as the likely GOP nominee. Having beaten him once, he considered himself (correctly at that point) the safest bet to do so again. Conscious of the threat Trump posed to the US and the wider world Biden now felt duty bound to run for a second term.

    As his health deteriorated, he got kind of locked in and the situation became self-fuelling. At some point the ‘management’ of his frailties became a deception, including of himself, and the ‘duty’ started to look more like prideful stubborness, fed by his close circle. At the eleventh hour he mustered the humility and wisdom to do the right (albeit belated) thing. He’d become the opponent Trump wanted rather than feared and he realized this. Although informed by health factors it was primarily a political not a medical decision.
    Just wanted to acknowledge that you've consistently said it won't be Biden for nominee, and I consistently said you were wrong!
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 22
    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
    It could be 100% but having the wrong political opinions render that for naught for some people, over here too.
    A bit like with some of the treatment Suella and Priti get?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
    It could be 100% but having the wrong political opinions render that for naught for some people, over here too.
    A bit like with some of the treatment Suella and Priti get?
    Precisely.

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    Internet personality and Republican candidate.

    Nasty stuff, dishonest stuff, it happens in politics everywhere. And given the size of the USA, it's going to throw up more nasty dishonest people than elsewhere.

    But the degree seen in US politics does seem odd and unhealthy to an outsider. And I would need persuading that it isn't mostly from one side.
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,385
    I
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
    It could be 100% but having the wrong political opinions render that for naught for some people, over here too.
    A bit like with some of the treatment Suella and Priti get?
    Precisely.

    The way this cretin and her fanboys and girls go on you’d think she’s the victim here.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/21/uk-police-charge-pro-palestine-protester-behind-divisive-coconut-placard
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Kamala Harris is 59.

    So yes, young by the standards of this race.
    Young by the standards of me
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    kle4 said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    Status changes can result in substantial support changes sometimes. See Starmer's net approval ratings once he took office as PM vs before he did.
    Starmer had just been elected PM by the voters themselves, what an absurd comparison
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,643
    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    The US has elected childless Presidents before but the last one was Warren Harding who left office in 1923
    She has two step children, in what is known as a blended family.

    She seems to have a very good relationship with them as well as their biological mum.

    https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a27422434/kamala-harris-stepmom-mothers-day/

    Or do only biological children count in your blood and soil world?

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Taz said:
    Well I suppose she didn't say her pronoun was they/them!
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    Desperate
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,083
    edited July 22
    Taz said:

    I

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Taz said:

    Cicero said:

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    That is truly remarkable
    It would certainly be legally actionable in the UK.
    This is also pretty poor.

    https://x.com/lavern_spicer/status/1815312759552090434?s=61
    More like fucking disgusting.

    Interesting that for 95% of American history, having an iota of Black "blood" in one's ancestry was enough to make you Black in the eyes of the law AND society.

    Whereas today having WAY more than that just ain't enough for some people. For some reason?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
    It could be 100% but having the wrong political opinions render that for naught for some people, over here too.
    A bit like with some of the treatment Suella and Priti get?
    Precisely.

    The way this cretin and her fanboys and girls go on you’d think she’s the victim here.

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/21/uk-police-charge-pro-palestine-protester-behind-divisive-coconut-placard
    Calling people horrible things might not need to be a crime, but that rather goes against the general trend of things thesedays, and it is pretty clear some people think it is perfectly acceptable that those they politically disagree with should be criticised in racial terms.

    And that's something only racists do.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Isn't Vance a Catholic? What does he think of clerical celibacy?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Nigelb said:

    HYUFD said:

    viewcode said:

    HYUFD said:
    The On Point Politics/SoCal Research Keystone State poll was
    conducted online using the Pollfish panel starting on July 20, 2024
    and finishing on the 21st.

    Pre-departure
    I highly doubt opinions of Harris will have changed in 24 hrs there
    You were highly doubting Buttigieg would endorse Harris this morning.
    I didn't believe the Democratic party could be stupid enough to nominate a candidate unopposed who would give their party their biggest defeat since 1984 on one poll today but it seems they are!
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/19vb2NtgByJ5MtJkCBHbuI3zUKOB_71iw/view
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    The US has elected childless Presidents before but the last one was Warren Harding who left office in 1923
    She has two step children, in what is known as a blended family.

    She seems to have a very good relationship with them as well as their biological mum.

    https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a27422434/kamala-harris-stepmom-mothers-day/

    Or do only biological children count in your blood and soil world?

    In strictest terms yes though I am sure she was a fine stepmother it is not quite the same
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,643

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Kamala Harris is 59.

    So yes, young by the standards of this race.
    Young by the standards of me
    I scrape by as still younger than both potential POTUS.

    I long since lost the battle of having PMs younger than me.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,971
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Isn't that Vance quote a direct lift from Leadsom's attack on Mrs May during leadership election???
    Shades of the Joe Biden cribbing Neal Kinnock scandal of 1987?
    The US has elected childless Presidents before but the last one was Warren Harding who left office in 1923
    She has two step children, in what is known as a blended family.

    She seems to have a very good relationship with them as well as their biological mum.

    https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a27422434/kamala-harris-stepmom-mothers-day/

    Or do only biological children count in your blood and soil world?

    Are you saying that she's a stepmom?

    Do we need to defer to TSE's expertise in this field?
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 22

    kle4 said:

    kle4 said:

    Classy. Could it get worse?

    JD Vance says that Kamala Harris is a “childless cat lady” who is “miserable” with her life because she didn’t have children, and that not having children means that she doesn’t have “a direct stake” in America
    https://nitter.poast.org/RonFilipkowski/status/1815414018502504611#m

    Turns out, yes.

    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    Entirely seriously, I cannot conceive of hating a rival political party enough to support people quite so rude and offensive.

    Manners are not everything, not even close when it comes to policy, but the vulgar, crass, insulting behaviour is just so disgraceful.
    MAGA-GOP freakout over KH speaks volumes.

    Similar but worse than the Keir Fear so prevalent among subset of PBers.
    And this is what I dared to hope that trump and co don't have a strategy for dealing with a young black female, and go properly mad trying
    Kamala Harris is 59.

    So yes, young by the standards of this race.
    Young by the standards of me
    She actually looks reasonably attractive and natural rather than like a botox filled waxworks dummy with a superglue perm lime most senior female US politicians seem to resemble. That might help her too.
This discussion has been closed.