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It is looking like a Kamala Harris coronation – politicalbetting.com

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Comments

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198
    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    IIRC he was formally appointed by the Sovereign three times... so....

    I've always found his record of failed political careers remarkable. Failed in WWI, came back, failed, arguably failed when he came back to the Admiralty, PM, lost, lost, PM.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,076

    MoanR said:

    It seems like a new era for TheScreamingEagles. Two posts with decent content in a row.

    We should all be very grateful for the time that TSE spends writing headers. (They are generally either good, very good or excellent). Without him the site would be much worse or possibly close.
    If he can carry on from here as he now finally started doing, I am sure the future is very bright. Let's hope he doesn't go back to his old habits.
    With respect I don't think this is the forum to criticise the quality of thread headers.

    It's an unpaid job done mostly by TSE, but with others making excellent contributions, to preserve the format of a forum of which we all are members and value.

    Feel free to comment on the content of the header, or argue with its opinions if they are offered, but acting like a old fashioned teacher barking feedback without context adds nothing, and it anything will annoy or demotivate the writers of thread headers.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 794



    Its over HYUFD.

    Kamala should be favourite now to be next POTUS.

    My gut tends to agree, but the objective evidence is with @HYUFD atm.

    Albeit the evidence is fairly thin. This is why Biden should have stood down as POTUS too. Give her time to become a known quantity.

    I would not be placing a bet at these prices, I am short Trump and long Kamala though. I expect to be able to short him significantly more in the 1.45 region in the near future, although it would be nice if I'm wrong about that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097
    edited July 22

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,883
    Nigelb said:

    Judging by the VP contenders' media appearances today, Beshear really wants the slot.

    A Democrat in a red state with the balls to take this kind of position - and to be re-elected - deserves it, IMO.

    Gov. Andy Beshear (D-KY) on his re-election and vetoing anti-trans bills:

    "All children are children of God … I was going to stand up for the most marginalized children who didn't deserve either a state legislature or an entire campaign picking on them."

    https://x.com/HeartlandSignal/status/1726806702421610566

    Lucky he doesn't post here.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198



    Its over HYUFD.

    Kamala should be favourite now to be next POTUS.

    My gut tends to agree, but the objective evidence is with @HYUFD atm.

    Albeit the evidence is fairly thin. This is why Biden should have stood down as POTUS too. Give her time to become a known quantity.

    I would not be placing a bet at these prices, I am short Trump and long Kamala though. I expect to be able to short him significantly more in the 1.45 region in the near future, although it would be nice if I'm wrong about that.
    A lot of people, here, want Kamala to win. Because she isn't Trump, for a start.

    The first thing in betting, is to ignore your heart.

    If I still had US citizenship I would vote for Kamala - 100%. Because she isn't Trump.

    But the election comes down to this -

    1) 45% will vote for Trump, no matter what
    2) 45% will vote against Trump, no matter what
    3) Its the last 10%, in the swing states especially, that matter
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198
    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060
    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Oooh, I'll debate that. This is Wikipedia desperately trying to rewrite the universe because they got British politics wrong. When British political articles started to be written, the wikifolk assumed that governments stopped during elections, but they don't: only the Parliaments do. To try to make sense of this they evolved two sets of articles: the "ministry" ones and the "government" ones, like this or even But this was an artefact. Thatcher was continuously Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990. She didn't "resign and was reappointed" in 1983 and 1987. Similarly Churchill didn't resign in 1945 to form a caretaker government, he remained Prime Minister and formed a caretaker government.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,659

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Speaking of felons in the running for Head of Government . . .

    My own avatar, Eugene Victor Debs was nominated for President four times by the Socialist Party of America: 1904, 1908, 1912 and 1920.

    The first three times were after his conviction and jail sentence, for violating a federal injunction in connection with strike by his American Railway Union (on grounds of obstruction of US mail) in 1894.

    His last race followed his second conviction and prison sentence, for sedition after US entered WW1, consisting of giving anti-war speech.

    Incidentally, EVD made friends with his jailers and wardens, for his general good behavior AND for his positive impact on his fellow prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813



    Its over HYUFD.

    Kamala should be favourite now to be next POTUS.

    My gut tends to agree, but the objective evidence is with @HYUFD atm.

    Albeit the evidence is fairly thin. This is why Biden should have stood down as POTUS too. Give her time to become a known quantity.

    I would not be placing a bet at these prices, I am short Trump and long Kamala though. I expect to be able to short him significantly more in the 1.45 region in the near future, although it would be nice if I'm wrong about that.
    Yes. I think @HYUFD is too absolutist in his views on Harris. But on the other side of the coin, it is clear that at the moment, with the evidence we have, she like Biden is lagging behind Trump.

    She has a convention to set out her stall and then around 2.5 months to change that. I think she’s got what it takes to do it and therefore she’s worth a bet at current odds. But she is not a slam dunk (and neither is Trump).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Speaking of felons in the running for Head of Government . . .

    My own avatar, Eugene Victor Debs was nominated for President four times by the Socialist Party of America: 1904, 1908, 1912 and 1920.

    The first three times were after his conviction and jail sentence, for violating a federal injunction in connection with strike by his American Railway Union (on grounds of obstruction of US mail) in 1894.

    His last race followed his second conviction and prison sentence, for sedition after US entered WW1, consisting of giving anti-war speech.

    Incidentally, EVD made friends with his jailers and wardens, for his general good behavior AND for his positive impact on his fellow prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

    Quite a few felons became PMs as we were decolonising...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559



    Its over HYUFD.

    Kamala should be favourite now to be next POTUS.

    My gut tends to agree, but the objective evidence is with @HYUFD atm.

    Albeit the evidence is fairly thin. This is why Biden should have stood down as POTUS too. Give her time to become a known quantity.

    I would not be placing a bet at these prices, I am short Trump and long Kamala though. I expect to be able to short him significantly more in the 1.45 region in the near future, although it would be nice if I'm wrong about that.
    Note that NYT and other media are reporting, that key reason Biden decided to withdraw from the race, were his campaign's own polling in battleground states. Which reportedly convinced him that following his disastrous debate versus Trump, he was on track to lose to DJT in November.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    This is also a decent argument in favour of Beshear (or, indeed, Buttigieg).

    A refusal to consider downballot consequences is how we got Gov. Jan Brewer. All except Beshear have downsides:

    • AZ: Special 2 years before end of term

    • PA: GOP Senate prez becomes LG & breaks ties until '26

    • NC: GOP LG would be acting gov whenever Cooper leaves state

    https://x.com/DavidNir/status/1815161947983327243

    In any event, who followed my tip when he was in three figures ?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,207

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Oooh, I'll debate that. This is Wikipedia desperately trying to rewrite the universe because they got British politics wrong. When British political articles started to be written, the wikifolk assumed that governments stopped during elections, but they don't: only the Parliaments do. To try to make sense of this they evolved two sets of articles: the "ministry" ones and the "government" ones, like this or even But this was an artefact. Thatcher was continuously Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990. She didn't "resign and was reappointed" in 1983 and 1987. Similarly Churchill didn't resign in 1945 to form a caretaker government, he remained Prime Minister and formed a caretaker government.
    Is the “ministry” terminology even correct? From my understanding a government that wins an election simply continues in office unaffected, there is no constitutional distinction between that government pre- and post- election. It is the same ministry until the government is dismissed, which is only done when a PM resigns.

    “The Thatcher ministry under the 1979-1983 Parliament” might be more appropriate parlance, though a mouthful!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Ah... I didn't know about the "caretaker" appointment. I should read more Boris biographies lol!
    Perhaps the most amusing of WSC's caretaker government appointments in 1945, was Brendan Bracken as First Lord of the Admiralty.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    edited July 22
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Oooh, I'll debate that. This is Wikipedia desperately trying to rewrite the universe because they got British politics wrong. When British political articles started to be written, the wikifolk assumed that governments stopped during elections, but they don't: only the Parliaments do. To try to make sense of this they evolved two sets of articles: the "ministry" ones and the "government" ones, like this or even But this was an artefact. Thatcher was continuously Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990. She didn't "resign and was reappointed" in 1983 and 1987. Similarly Churchill didn't resign in 1945 to form a caretaker government, he remained Prime Minister and formed a caretaker government.
    He did actually resign, on behalf of the National Government. He was immediately reappointed to form a new government of only Conservatives (although an Independent remained Chancellor and a National Liberal Lord Chancellor).

    For definitive evidence, we should note Butler and Butler's Twentieth Century British Political Facts lists the two administrations separately.

    You are of course right about Wikipedia's lack of understanding of British politics, but wrong on this particular point.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    edited July 22

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
    If demand is flat then prices won't change. Stranger things have happened in economics.

    No evidence for this, a hunch - I think there is a snowball effect where packing loads of people into city centres creates a strong economy and makes those areas attractive to young people (especially if you're on Hinge). Demand grows on the back of that increased supply of young people and... DOOM LOOP.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866
    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Ah... I didn't know about the "caretaker" appointment. I should read more Boris biographies lol!
    I think he had wanted the National Government to continue until the conflict with Japan was concluded but with the collapse of Italy and the end of the war in Europe, Party politics began to come to the fore once again and the momentum for an election became unstoppable.

    The non-Conservative members of the National Government quit and were replaced by Conservatives - Churchill didn't need to resign as the Conservatives alone had a majority in the Commons but it had been a decade since the previous election and a number of MPs wanted to go.

    The timing was such that Churchill had to leave the Potsdam Conference and Attlee went back having won the election.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Foxy said:

    Speaking of felons in the running for Head of Government . . .

    My own avatar, Eugene Victor Debs was nominated for President four times by the Socialist Party of America: 1904, 1908, 1912 and 1920.

    The first three times were after his conviction and jail sentence, for violating a federal injunction in connection with strike by his American Railway Union (on grounds of obstruction of US mail) in 1894.

    His last race followed his second conviction and prison sentence, for sedition after US entered WW1, consisting of giving anti-war speech.

    Incidentally, EVD made friends with his jailers and wardens, for his general good behavior AND for his positive impact on his fellow prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

    Quite a few felons became PMs as we were decolonising...
    Indeed. Virtually a requirement to have been a guest of His/Her Majesty at some point.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,162
    edited July 22

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060
    Foxy said:

    Speaking of felons in the running for Head of Government . . .

    My own avatar, Eugene Victor Debs was nominated for President four times by the Socialist Party of America: 1904, 1908, 1912 and 1920.

    The first three times were after his conviction and jail sentence, for violating a federal injunction in connection with strike by his American Railway Union (on grounds of obstruction of US mail) in 1894.

    His last race followed his second conviction and prison sentence, for sedition after US entered WW1, consisting of giving anti-war speech.

    Incidentally, EVD made friends with his jailers and wardens, for his general good behavior AND for his positive impact on his fellow prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

    Quite a few felons became PMs as we were decolonising...
    Yes Minister season 2 episode 2

    Sir Humphrey: And as you know the letters JB are the highest honour in the Commonwealth.
    Hacker: JB?​
    Sir Humphrey: Jailed by the British. Gandhi, Nkrumah, Makarios, Ben Gurion, Kenyatta, Nehru, Mugabe, the list of world leaders is endless, and contains several of our students.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited July 22
    stodge said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Ah... I didn't know about the "caretaker" appointment. I should read more Boris biographies lol!
    I think he had wanted the National Government to continue until the conflict with Japan was concluded but with the collapse of Italy and the end of the war in Europe, Party politics began to come to the fore once again and the momentum for an election became unstoppable.

    The non-Conservative members of the National Government quit and were replaced by Conservatives - Churchill didn't need to resign as the Conservatives alone had a majority in the Commons but it had been a decade since the previous election and a number of MPs wanted to go.

    The timing was such that Churchill had to leave the Potsdam Conference and Attlee went back having won the election.
    Unstoppable mainly because the Labour Party refused to continue the Coaltion past VE Day.

    In large part, because at that time, nobody could predict with any certainty (the Vicar being sadly unavailable or rather non-existent then) how long it was gonna be before VJ Day.

    ADDENDUM & Pungent PB Pundit Alert - NOT all Caretaker Govt. members were Conservatives; they also included Liberal Nationals and National Labour.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689

    Penddu2 said:

    Forget about USA presidency for now and look at a far more important election with a likely female coronation..... Wales.

    It now looks like Eluned Morgan will be the only nominee and could be selected as Welsh Labour Leader on Wednesday. Still needs to be approved as First Minister but that should be a formality.

    But for a fascinating background read on how we got here, take a read of this blog from Lee Waters - MS who was arguably the first to stab VG in the back...

    https://amanwy.blogspot.com/2024/07/dygsu-gwersi.html?spref=tw&m=1

    In Scotland we have an SNP government who have completely run out of steam and are expending their remaining energy consuming each other. At the 2026 Holyrood elections we have the prospects of Labour replacing them in government possibly with the support of the LibDems.

    In Wales the Labour government is also in face-eating mode. But who is going to replace them - a Plaid + Tory ticket?
    I could see Plaid matching or exceeding Labour seats but would struggle to get a working majority as Greens and LDs won't get many seats between them. Unless Welsh Conservatives change tack they couldnt be a realistic coalition partner - and of course Reform or Abolish would be totally unacceptable. The only viable ans sustainable coalitions would be Labour Plaid or Plaid Labour.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,659

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
    Yes that is the economic axiom but I do not believe our property market is an ideal free market and for that reason it the supply demand curve is not as important. Look at the Chinese property boom. Huge supply, beyond all need but also huge costs relative to the average income.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689
    viewcode said:

    Penddu2 said:

    Forget about USA presidency for now and look at a far more important election with a likely female coronation..... Wales.

    It now looks like Eluned Morgan will be the only nominee and could be selected as Welsh Labour Leader on Wednesday. Still needs to be approved as First Minister but that should be a formality.

    But for a fascinating background read on how we got here, take a read of this blog from Lee Waters - MS who was arguably the first to stab VG in the back...

    https://amanwy.blogspot.com/2024/07/dygsu-gwersi.html?spref=tw&m=1

    That's a rather interesting blog, @Penddu2. Noted and favorited.
    He seems to have almost given up having a political career - without formally resigning Labour whip. I expect him to be expelled shortly.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    In a move which bemuses those of us over 60...

    Charli XCX backs Harris: ‘Kamala IS brat’
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4785802-charli-xcx-kamala-harris-brat-biden-2024/
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
    Not saying you are wrong, but what evidence do you have for the assertion? The pint in the pub is surely an affectation?
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,720
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
    If demand is flat then prices won't change. Stranger things have happened in economics.

    No evidence for this, a hunch - I think there is a snowball effect where packing loads of people into city centres creates a strong economy and makes those areas attractive to young people (especially if you're on Hinge). Demand grows on the back of that increased supply of young people and... DOOM LOOP.
    So, I had to google Hinge.

    Not being on it, does that make me unhinged?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
    Not saying you are wrong, but what evidence do you have for the assertion? The pint in the pub is surely an affectation?
    He smokes too.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    Selebian said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
    If demand is flat then prices won't change. Stranger things have happened in economics.

    No evidence for this, a hunch - I think there is a snowball effect where packing loads of people into city centres creates a strong economy and makes those areas attractive to young people (especially if you're on Hinge). Demand grows on the back of that increased supply of young people and... DOOM LOOP.
    So, I had to google Hinge.

    Not being on it, does that make me unhinged?
    It makes your mental health much better than most single people in their 20s.

    So no.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Ah... I didn't know about the "caretaker" appointment. I should read more Boris biographies lol!
    Boris Johnson surely could have benefited from having a caretaker while he was partying hearty at No. 10.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
    Not saying you are wrong, but what evidence do you have for the assertion? The pint in the pub is surely an affectation?
    Though I believe that he does drink rather a lot of red wine, as well as smoking a pack a day.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-12842355/Im-Celebs-Nigel-Farage-coping-Jungle-life-chain-smoking-puffing-PACK-day-ITV-granted-special-permission-smoke-camp.html
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,720
    Nigelb said:

    In a move which bemuses those of us over 60...

    Charli XCX backs Harris: ‘Kamala IS brat’
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4785802-charli-xcx-kamala-harris-brat-biden-2024/

    Read that as referring to KC3 for a moment. XCX parses to 100 though (100-10+10) doesn't it?
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    Of course you can, if supply exceeds demand and if supply can be easily created.

    My first HDTV I bought cost over £1000, in then-money, which would be well over two grand in today's prices. Today you can get a bigger and better one for £200 in today-money.

    Why hasn't the price of TVs gone up as we can afford to pay more? Why has it gone down instead? Because there's healthy competition in that market, but there is not in the housing market.

    There's no reason why house prices can't go down by the same amount as TV prices have. If the barriers to entry to the market were removed so any skilled tradesperson could just build a house for anyone who wants one, rather than need an army of lawyers and a forest of paperwork first to get "permission" to do so, then they would come down.
  • Photo of the day. I thought you had to go to Nigeria or Mexico to get one of these nowadays
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 22
    PS - if racing the train between Combe Junction Halt and Liskeard its much easier on the heart to start at Liskeard rather than running up the one in five gradient.

    But rather less consential in terms of missing the train if you do the uphill direction given Combe only gets 2 trains a day.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
    Not saying you are wrong, but what evidence do you have for the assertion? The pint in the pub is surely an affectation?
    He smokes too.
    Do we know that Harris doesn't? You might be surprised at how many smokers in the public eye keep their filthy habits secret.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Photo of the day. I thought you had to go to Nigeria or Mexico to get one of these nowadays

    No - we definitely still have trains in the UK.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Farage called her Black then half-corrected himself to African-American but made a mess of it because it is not a term we use over here, so it is not in his muscle memory. I'd give him a pass here, even though I disagree with his wider sentiment.
    What I'd like to know is why Farage is even commenting and thinks the next US Presidential election is any of his business?

    He quite rightly criticized Obama's intervention in our EU referendum but is perfectly happy to stick his nose into America politics whenever he feels like it.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,866

    stodge said:

    GIN1138 said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Ah... I didn't know about the "caretaker" appointment. I should read more Boris biographies lol!
    I think he had wanted the National Government to continue until the conflict with Japan was concluded but with the collapse of Italy and the end of the war in Europe, Party politics began to come to the fore once again and the momentum for an election became unstoppable.

    The non-Conservative members of the National Government quit and were replaced by Conservatives - Churchill didn't need to resign as the Conservatives alone had a majority in the Commons but it had been a decade since the previous election and a number of MPs wanted to go.

    The timing was such that Churchill had to leave the Potsdam Conference and Attlee went back having won the election.
    Unstoppable mainly because the Labour Party refused to continue the Coaltion past VE Day.

    In large part, because at that time, nobody could predict with any certainty (the Vicar being sadly unavailable or rather non-existent then) how long it was gonna be before VJ Day.

    ADDENDUM & Pungent PB Pundit Alert - NOT all Caretaker Govt. members were Conservatives; they also included Liberal Nationals and National Labour.
    The National Liberals were politically aligned with the Conservatives by then. Gwilym Lloyd George also remained as Minister for Fuel and Power. All the Labour members left on 23rd May. Sir John Anderson was non party.

    So, on 23rd May 1945, the German "caretaker" Government led by Doenitz was dissolved while in Britain a caretaker Government led by Churchill was formed.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198

    Foxy said:

    Speaking of felons in the running for Head of Government . . .

    My own avatar, Eugene Victor Debs was nominated for President four times by the Socialist Party of America: 1904, 1908, 1912 and 1920.

    The first three times were after his conviction and jail sentence, for violating a federal injunction in connection with strike by his American Railway Union (on grounds of obstruction of US mail) in 1894.

    His last race followed his second conviction and prison sentence, for sedition after US entered WW1, consisting of giving anti-war speech.

    Incidentally, EVD made friends with his jailers and wardens, for his general good behavior AND for his positive impact on his fellow prisoners.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_V._Debs

    Quite a few felons became PMs as we were decolonising...
    Indeed. Virtually a requirement to have been a guest of His/Her Majesty at some point.
    JBTB
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    JB Pritzker disappoints HYUFD.

    You think I just fell out of a coconut tree?
    https://x.com/JBPritzker/status/1815401261690208303
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,198

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    GIN1138 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Farage called her Black then half-corrected himself to African-American but made a mess of it because it is not a term we use over here, so it is not in his muscle memory. I'd give him a pass here, even though I disagree with his wider sentiment.
    What I'd like to know is why Farage is even commenting and thinks the next US Presidential election is any of his business?

    He quite rightly criticized Obama's intervention in our EU referendum but is perfectly happy to stick his nose into America politics whenever he feels like it.
    Any of Farage's business? Heck, he's turned Trump-fluffing into a (much-needed?) profit center!

    As for his hypocrisy in THIS respect, just one more gob of spit in his ocean of . . . .
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,237

    viewcode said:

    It seems like a new era for TheScreamingEagles. Two posts with decent content in a row.

    Please be a nicer person to the nice person who publishes my articles.

    Plus, let us not forget, who also is recovering from an abscess operation whilst providing sufficient articles each day to give us a place where grown adults can bitch about their hobby horses. For free.
    I will be very happy to acknowledge a consistent posting of good content, until then I will remain sceptical. I think they should start charging for this site or provide donations, I'd be happy to donate a significant sum of money

    As for your articles, they're not bad
    Lots of people donate

    I’m guessing you haven’t. Yet.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    Nigelb said:

    JB Pritzker disappoints HYUFD.

    You think I just fell out of a coconut tree?
    https://x.com/JBPritzker/status/1815401261690208303

    Ok, I'll admit I don't get this reference. I take it it's a refusal to run but how's it an endorsement of Harris?
  • Lots of people donate

    I’m guessing you haven’t. Yet.

    I am not sure how.
    Nigelb said:

    Let's not embarrass him.
    A figure of such legendary modesty commendably shies away from excessive praise.

    As long as they continue to post non-tripe content that's good quality then they'll have nothing but praise from me. But I will remain sceptical until we see consistency in that area.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Question for @leon or any other AI obsessives. I am starting another business venture and need a business logo creating. Which AI should I use to create the thing?

    I can broadly describe what I am looking for, but am not a graphic designer...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,604
    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MoanR said:

    It seems like a new era for TheScreamingEagles. Two posts with decent content in a row.

    We should all be very grateful for the time that TSE spends writing headers. (They are generally either good, very good or excellent). Without him the site would be much worse or possibly close.
    I am not sure if @BatteryCorrectHorse is trying to be funny, is unaware of @TSE role in this forum, or is just being rude and juvenile but then I know who I respect in their contribution to this wonderful forum
    Indeed. TSE is basically running the show since OGH became unwell and there would be no PB without him.

    Anyone who enjoys this website should be thankful we have TSE to keep the show on the road... Even if he does have terrible taste in shoes and he remains a Posh Boys fanboy! ;)
    Let's not embarrass him.
    A figure of such legendary modesty commendably shies away from excessive praise.
    Indeed.

    Plus I have the ultimate deterrence when people annoy me.

    I can use that Nigel Farage photo in a thread header.
  • I would very much like to donate to the forum or I'd be happy to advocate for making it be paid to access but I am not sure how to donate or pay.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Nigelb said:

    GIN1138 said:

    MoanR said:

    It seems like a new era for TheScreamingEagles. Two posts with decent content in a row.

    We should all be very grateful for the time that TSE spends writing headers. (They are generally either good, very good or excellent). Without him the site would be much worse or possibly close.
    I am not sure if @BatteryCorrectHorse is trying to be funny, is unaware of @TSE role in this forum, or is just being rude and juvenile but then I know who I respect in their contribution to this wonderful forum
    Indeed. TSE is basically running the show since OGH became unwell and there would be no PB without him.

    Anyone who enjoys this website should be thankful we have TSE to keep the show on the road... Even if he does have terrible taste in shoes and he remains a Posh Boys fanboy! ;)
    Let's not embarrass him.
    A figure of such legendary modesty commendably shies away from excessive praise.
    Indeed.

    Plus I have the ultimate deterrence when people annoy me.

    I can use that Nigel Farage photo in a thread header.
    Can we all have an immediate agreement not to ever annoy TSE?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,604
    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    edited July 22
    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    BBC say not confirmed but not believed to be a banned breed.

    In other words: who knows?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Lots of people donate

    I’m guessing you haven’t. Yet.

    I am not sure how.
    Nigelb said:

    Let's not embarrass him.
    A figure of such legendary modesty commendably shies away from excessive praise.

    As long as they continue to post non-tripe content that's good quality then they'll have nothing but praise from me. But I will remain sceptical until we see consistency in that area.
    There are periodic tip drives, but not had one for a while.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Nigelb said:

    In a move which bemuses those of us over 60...

    Charli XCX backs Harris: ‘Kamala IS brat’
    https://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/4785802-charli-xcx-kamala-harris-brat-biden-2024/

    It bemuses people a lot younger than 60.
  • There are periodic tip drives, but not had one for a while.

    I would advocate for it being opened straight away so I can donate or pay.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    edited July 22

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    That asset financing costs are inversely correlated to asset prices isn't a good or a bad point. It's simply a fact.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    JB Pritzker disappoints HYUFD.

    You think I just fell out of a coconut tree?
    https://x.com/JBPritzker/status/1815401261690208303

    Ok, I'll admit I don't get this reference. I take it it's a refusal to run but how's it an endorsement of Harris?
    It's a reference to a story she told about something her mother said to her.
    For whatever reason, it became a meme.
  • WillGWillG Posts: 2,366
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    There needs to be a progressive tax on income from property rentals. That way you encourage home ownership and landlords that have 2-3 properties, but discourages massive private equity firms from capturing the surplus from rising house prices. We need to return to a property-owning democracy, as Thatcher envisioned.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    SKS met #Biden just days ago and described him as on "top-form" and "sharp".

    Centrist Cultists please explain
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,659

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    Of course you can, if supply exceeds demand and if supply can be easily created.

    My first HDTV I bought cost over £1000, in then-money, which would be well over two grand in today's prices. Today you can get a bigger and better one for £200 in today-money.

    Why hasn't the price of TVs gone up as we can afford to pay more? Why has it gone down instead? Because there's healthy competition in that market, but there is not in the housing market.

    There's no reason why house prices can't go down by the same amount as TV prices have. If the barriers to entry to the market were removed so any skilled tradesperson could just build a house for anyone who wants one, rather than need an army of lawyers and a forest of paperwork first to get "permission" to do so, then they would come down.
    Go to Canary Wharf buy a pint now go to Tower Hamlets and do the same. Part of pricing a product is knowing the financial positions of your customers.

    Why do you think every big consumer serving company wants an app? Part of it is they want to make prices dynamic and what you can afford is part of the pricing algo.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    Blimey.

    Yvette Cooper has just confirmed that the now-aborted Rwanda Scheme cost the U.K. taxpayer £700m to send just 4 “volunteers” to Rwanda.

    And that the previous govt budgeted a total £10 Billion cost.

    https://x.com/AlPinkerton/status/1815396376483614795
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Kamala due to speak shortly.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    In a few years' time the US and UK could be being run by people called Kamala and Kemi.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060
    ydoethur said:

    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    GIN1138 said:



    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Selebian said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Just struck me, if Harris wins the presidency both the UK and US will be run be ex-prosecutors.

    What was Harris's dad's profession?

    Trump's was clearly a tool maker :wink:
    In 2019 the U.K. and US were both run by men who are now convicted criminals, of course.
    UK has had a PM who was in prison, before. Three times PM, actually.
    Really? Who?
    Winston Churchill was imprisoned by the Boers.

    He afterwards based his prisons policies, as Home Sec, on his experiences there.
    I'm struggling to work out how Winston was three times PM? 1940-1945 and 1951-1955 were his two terms in office weren't they?
    He was Prime Minister of the National Government from 1940-45, then resigned, was immediately reappointed and formed a 'caretaker' Conservative government. Having lost the elections of 1945 and 1950 he returned to power in 1951.

    So yes, three times is technically correct.
    Oooh, I'll debate that. This is Wikipedia desperately trying to rewrite the universe because they got British politics wrong. When British political articles started to be written, the wikifolk assumed that governments stopped during elections, but they don't: only the Parliaments do. To try to make sense of this they evolved two sets of articles: the "ministry" ones and the "government" ones, like this or even But this was an artefact. Thatcher was continuously Prime Minister from 1979 to 1990. She didn't "resign and was reappointed" in 1983 and 1987. Similarly Churchill didn't resign in 1945 to form a caretaker government, he remained Prime Minister and formed a caretaker government.
    He did actually resign, on behalf of the National Government. He was immediately reappointed to form a new government of only Conservatives (although an Independent remained Chancellor and a National Liberal Lord Chancellor).

    For definitive evidence, we should note Butler and Butler's Twentieth Century British Political Facts lists the two administrations separately.

    You are of course right about Wikipedia's lack of understanding of British politics, but wrong on this particular point.
    Yes, you are correct. I looked at Wikipedia and downloaded the pdf of "Churchill: A Life" to check. He resigned on noon May 23rd and was reappointed by the King (Wiki says 4pm that day)

    See the text between "Churchill realised that nothing could now save the coalition" on page 845 and "Two days later he gave a farewell Party at 10 Downing Street to the outgoing Coalition Cabinet" on page 846 of the book "Churchill: A Life" by Martin Gilbert
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Anecdotally, most of the dog attacks are now on owners rather than random unfortunates. I suppose the restrictions are making "Demon" even more pissed off than usual.

    The government thought that were 10,000 XL Bullies. 60,000 have been registered. Probably over 100,000?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Yvette Cooper has just confirmed that the now-aborted Rwanda Scheme cost the U.K. taxpayer £700m to send just 4 “volunteers” to Rwanda.

    And that the previous govt budgeted a total £10 Billion cost.

    https://x.com/AlPinkerton/status/1815396376483614795

    So they have 9.3 billion to fund the new border force? Can they not just bribe anyone arriving on a boat to go back to France?
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655

    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
    Great wicket keepers and artists
  • Will TheScreamingEagles be okay to open up the donation pot or provide the link to pay.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Kamala due to speak shortly.

    well, that really would be a turn up given how verbose she can be.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,604

    Will TheScreamingEagles be okay to open up the donation pot or provide the link to pay.

    It’s something I’ll ask Robert to set up.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    O/T

    "Jay Slater and our true-crime-poisoned culture
    The cruel online response to the 19-year-old’s disappearance shows how real people’s lives have become fodder for content.
    By Sarah Manavis"

    https://www.newstatesman.com/comment/2024/07/jay-slater-our-true-crime-poisoned-culture
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060
    Andy_JS said:
    What do people without driving licenses get?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809
    edited July 22
    WillG said:

    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    There needs to be a progressive tax on income from property rentals. That way you encourage home ownership and landlords that have 2-3 properties, but discourages massive private equity firms from capturing the surplus from rising house prices. We need to return to a property-owning democracy, as Thatcher envisioned.
    There already is, though. Everyone has a £1K tax free allowance for rental. And then the income tax scaling.

    Sure, the stepwise scaling up leaves something to be desired. And doesn't attack your issue.
  • DadgeDadge Posts: 2,052
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    It's locked in massive wealth inequality. Combined with insanely high saving rates during COVID (versus scraping by on furlough payments) it's a disaster.

    Even if you build millions of houses, what's to stop the minted buying then all up and renting them out?
    One of the scandals in Birmingham is the thousand flats in Perry Barr built in 2022 and still empty. People are willing to buy them (with a mortgage) for £180k but lenders aren't willing to value them above £130k. In the end, they're all going to go to cash buyers who will rent them out or put them on AirBnB. The govt needs to do something soon to make sure young people can own homes like the previous generations could.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    Especially since most buy to let landlords are cash purchasers without a mortgage anyway, so mortgage rates doesn't affect them.
    But the same point does apply, only from the other side, the income side.

    Imagine I'm an investor looking at property. I will value it as the NPV in perpetuity of the rental income it will generate. To work that out - the NPV - I'll take the annual rent and divide it by a suitable yield. The yield I use will depend on where interest rates are. The lower this is the higher will be the value of the property.

    Or look at it this way if it's easier. If I can only earn peanuts on my cash in the bank it will make me more likely to want to buy property instead. This pushes up prices. Conversely if rates were now to double or triple (as they have) I'll be more likely to want to switch out of property into cash. This will depress prices.

    This is not an opinion, it's just how it works. This is how you value an asset. The income it will generate capitalized at a suitable yield. With that yield depending on the interest rate environment.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Yvette Cooper has just confirmed that the now-aborted Rwanda Scheme cost the U.K. taxpayer £700m to send just 4 “volunteers” to Rwanda.

    And that the previous govt budgeted a total £10 Billion cost.

    https://x.com/AlPinkerton/status/1815396376483614795

    So they have 9.3 billion to fund the new border force? Can they not just bribe anyone arriving on a boat to go back to France?
    For £9.3 billion, I think we could persuade even @TSE to visit France.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    It would have been less of an issue, yes, but still an issue. Those long years of ultra-low interest rates are a material cause of our sky-high property prices. But there's some good news. That the cheap money era is over will act as a dampener on prices for the foreseeable future. Rampant house price inflation is now less likely.
    Good point, apart from the inconvenient fact that your claim is not true.

    House prices surged when demand went up but supply did not under Blair and Brown before interest rates fell.

    Since then prices have relatively stabilised as construction has roughly kept pace with demand but not increased past demand which is what we need to reverse the unaffordable price rise.

    We need years of supply increasing faster than demand. Simply raising interest rates won't do that.
    Higher rates and limiting mortgages would simply mean that house prices stay high permanently.

    It wouldn’t deal with the problem. That there aren’t enough properties.
    As explained, higher rates act to depress prices not support them.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,604
    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Blimey.

    Yvette Cooper has just confirmed that the now-aborted Rwanda Scheme cost the U.K. taxpayer £700m to send just 4 “volunteers” to Rwanda.

    And that the previous govt budgeted a total £10 Billion cost.

    https://x.com/AlPinkerton/status/1815396376483614795

    So they have 9.3 billion to fund the new border force? Can they not just bribe anyone arriving on a boat to go back to France?
    For £9.3 billion, I think we could persuade even @TSE to visit France.
    Nope, I want £9.3 billion for the French tear-gassing incident in 2022.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,060
    Eabhal said:

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices don't go up. The problem is that this hasn't happened in the housing market in a long, long time. In most places.
    If demand is flat then prices won't change. Stranger things have happened in economics.

    No evidence for this, a hunch - I think there is a snowball effect where packing loads of people into city centres creates a strong economy and makes those areas attractive to young people (especially if you're on Hinge). Demand grows on the back of that increased supply of young people and... DOOM LOOP.
    As I believe Michael Gove and @Leon have separately pointed out, you get better sex in the city.
  • numbertwelvenumbertwelve Posts: 6,813
    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    ydoethur said:

    Nigelb said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Foxy said:

    Nigelb said:

    Farage needs to seek help.

    Why would Farage label a person born in Oakland, California as “a black African”?
    https://x.com/brexit_sham/status/1815320300268949777

    Ask the Italian Nancy Pelosi or the Irishman Joe Biden.
    In that case Indian or Jamaican at a stretch. African-American or Dual heritage more properly.
    Farage is a nasty racist, but it seems likely he was just trying to say "African American" and got confused.
    Maybe Farage is getting old enough and confused enough that he needs to stand down.
    Harris is only seven months younger than him.
    A substantially healthier lifestyle, though.
    Not saying you are wrong, but what evidence do you have for the assertion? The pint in the pub is surely an affectation?
    He smokes too.
    Do we know that Harris doesn't? You might be surprised at how many smokers in the public eye keep their filthy habits secret.
    Barack Obama liked a ciggie. Cameron too.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,604
    viewcode said:

    Andy_JS said:
    What do people without driving licenses get?
    The apocryphal Thatcher quote about people who use buses
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    Anyone who watched the Kamala speech, you didn't miss much. Nothing of consequence revealed other than Joe Biden is great. To be fair she was meeting athletes etc so it wasn't the right venue to start talking about her candidacy.

    REally? I would have thought it was a great chance to say she was also running.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    New York Times (via Seattle Times) - Why Obama Hasn’t Endorsed Harris

    Many of the marquee names in Democratic politics began quickly lining up behind Vice President Kamala Harris on Sunday, but one towering presence in the party was conspicuously and purposefully absent: Barack Obama. . . .

    Republicans interpreted that as a snub. But people close to Obama, who has positioned himself as an impartial elder statesman above intraparty machinations, said not to read too much into it — and had no alternate candidate in mind when he made the decision not to immediately endorse Harris.

    Obama adopted an identical stance four years ago when Biden’s aides pressured him to endorse early in the Democratic primaries before Sen. Bernie Sanders dropped out. (Obama’s favored phrase back then was “I don’t want to thumb the scale.”) Endorsing too early now would also be a political mistake — fueling criticism that Harris’ nomination, should it come, was a coronation rather than the best possible consensus under rushed circumstances, they said. . . .

    But there are other more personal considerations, exacerbating Obama’s innate caution.

    Biden is a deeply prideful man, and he has never fully forgiven Obama for quietly backing . . . Hillary Clinton in the 2016 campaign . . . Nor . . . when Obama told him that he should consider sitting out 2020, too, people in his circle have said.

    Obama wanted Sunday to be about Biden, a celebration of his accomplishments — and does not feel pressured to act hastily, according to a former White House official who speaks with the former president regularly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,809

    Andy_JS said:

    Any guesses as to the type of dog? (That information hasn't been released so far).

    "Woman in her 30s dies after being attacked by pet dog in Coventry"

    https://news.sky.com/story/woman-in-her-30s-dies-after-being-attacked-by-pet-dog-in-coventry-13183375

    Jack Russell, it is always little ankle biters which are the worst.
    Corgis too. These little bastards are actually bred to do that.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    FPT

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Foxy said:

    Eabhal said:

    Nigelb said:

    I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?

    A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?

    You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.

    You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.

    The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.

    Just accept you've got it wrong.
    A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
    And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).

    I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
    House prices are absurd even in places with loads of room like Canada and Australia. It's because of low interest rates meaning people buy to higher multiples of income.
    Yep. The notion it's all about lack of supply is false. The many years of cheap money have contributed greatly to today's high house prices.
    How would an excess of supply not lead to a fall in prices?
    Yes, higher supply should depress prices, I'm just saying it's not all about that.
    If supply exceeds demand, then prices will fall to clear the demand. and you'll have surplus housing. You may find people building and buying more ten bedroom mansions, but not many.

    The reason people pay lots for houses is scarcity.

    I know it is hard to imagine, but you could have a situation where you *could* borrow a 500K, but the house you want actually costs less than that....
    Yes, yes, and a yes for the road - higher supply leads to lower prices. Got that. Tick.

    I'm making a different point. Which is that our high house prices are not all because of lack of supply. The long period of cheap money has also contributed.
    The cheap money era *enabled* the housing market to continue going up, rather than hitting a ceiling of financing earlier. We are now seeing some evidence of that ceiling, now - people can't borrow enough, even at historically low rates, to afford the prices.
    Exactly. That's what I'm saying. Lack of supply is one cause of our high house prices, this is another one - several years of low interest rates.
    If we hadn't had the fucked up housing market, the cheap money wouldn't have been an issue. People would have been buying houses for far less than they could theoretically borrow.
    What people can afford is part of the market. Rents go up when housing benefit increases, farmers are paid less when they receive subsidies etc You cannot separate the relative affordability of something from the market price.
    Of course you can, if supply exceeds demand and if supply can be easily created.

    My first HDTV I bought cost over £1000, in then-money, which would be well over two grand in today's prices. Today you can get a bigger and better one for £200 in today-money.

    Why hasn't the price of TVs gone up as we can afford to pay more? Why has it gone down instead? Because there's healthy competition in that market, but there is not in the housing market.

    There's no reason why house prices can't go down by the same amount as TV prices have. If the barriers to entry to the market were removed so any skilled tradesperson could just build a house for anyone who wants one, rather than need an army of lawyers and a forest of paperwork first to get "permission" to do so, then they would come down.
    Mass market consumer goods to income generating asset isn't a good comparison.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Jeezo, the already deranged have gone off the scale.
    They seem a little rattled.

    https://x.com/lauraloomer/status/1815377272268050735?s=61&t=LYVEHh2mqFy1oUJAdCfe-Q
This discussion has been closed.