I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
What does it mean though that housing is too expensive - if nobody was willing to pay, the price would go down until they were.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
Her story is the story of millions of people up and down the country.
Yes it lacks some detail, all stories do, but what more do you need? Its the facts of life for almost anyone who is not getting support from others nowadays which is a disgraceful situation to be in.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
That's because men need a houses for their wives and their mistresses...and a house for August holidays.
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
First mortgage was 147 thousand. But as I said I was very lucky.
Yes, both in getting help and buying decades ago when prices were affordable.
So this lady if she's not so lucky, having no support and today when prices are sky high, then that's entirely believable is it not?
How much would she need for a minimum deposit? How long would it take to save for that? Can she save 400 a month? Thats 20,000 over 4 years (and extra with prudent investment). Or 200 a month for 4 years for 10K.
You seem to be trying to repeat a story we’ve already debunked - you said she could reduce her rent, we demonstrated that it didn’t seem possible so now you are suggesting the same thing from a different angle.
Being blunt if you rent at the moment as a single person you are not going to be in a position go save enough money to get a deposit
It's quite obvious, Turbo already made up their mind before even reading the article so it's now just a case of them confirming that actually there's something else afoot. Can't possibly be because housing is too expensive.
Can't two things be true at the same time? I accept that house prices are too expensive. I also think there is something missing from the story.
Why?
Its the case up and down the entire bloody country for a generation of people.
We've ran the numbers for you and they check out.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
Even doing that its incredibly hard to save enough for a deposit, especially when the required amount is increasing annually whenever prices rise. That's the problem with ever escalating prices, the amount needed for the deposit is ever escalating.
Saving £200 a month isn't enough for a deposit if it takes a decade to save for a deposit at that rate, and in a decades time its half of what you need for a deposit.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
What does it mean though that housing is too expensive - if nobody was willing to pay, the price would go down until they were.
Bank of Mum + Dad.
As long as the rich give money to their kids, the housing bubble will continue to be inflated.
People already aren't willing or able to pay, that's why renting has exploded. But then landlords gouge people there too.
Housing is legalised corruption and cartel tactics.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
Silver bullet. Make housing cheaper. In every market, in every economy in history, the way to do this is to increase the supply relative to the demand.
Build so many houses that people will be getting irate about their 8 year old kid winning another house from a cereal box voucher. "Bloody hell, he has 6 already". Build so many that the homeless have a choice of which of their house's garages they sleep in*.
*PJ O'Rourke commented on the Savings & Loan scandal, that if the money had been spent on buying commercial property, they could have given every homeless person in the US their own commercial building, to sleep in the boiler room thereof.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
What does it mean though that housing is too expensive - if nobody was willing to pay, the price would go down until they were.
Except people are willing to pay, because supply is too low and people need a roof over their heads.
Just like gas was too expensive after Russia invaded Ukraine but we still don't want to freeze.
Thankfully gas prices have come down since. A major increase in supply and house prices crashing like gas prices have from their peak would see the country in a much, much better position.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
0% deposits wouldn't even touch the sides.
In her case? Would a mortgage not be similar to her rent?
The BBC story does lack detail. Does she have student loans, car payments or previous bad debt that is being paid off, does it say if she has any children? It is just vague rent and bills.
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
Hang on, is this an inverse four Yorkshiremen sketch?
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
First mortgage was 147 thousand. But as I said I was very lucky.
Yes, both in getting help and buying decades ago when prices were affordable.
So this lady if she's not so lucky, having no support and today when prices are sky high, then that's entirely believable is it not?
How much would she need for a minimum deposit? How long would it take to save for that? Can she save 400 a month? Thats 20,000 over 4 years (and extra with prudent investment). Or 200 a month for 4 years for 10K.
You seem to be trying to repeat a story we’ve already debunked - you said she could reduce her rent, we demonstrated that it didn’t seem possible so now you are suggesting the same thing from a different angle.
Being blunt if you rent at the moment as a single person you are not going to be in a position go save enough money to get a deposit
It's quite obvious, Turbo already made up their mind before even reading the article so it's now just a case of them confirming that actually there's something else afoot. Can't possibly be because housing is too expensive.
Can't two things be true at the same time? I accept that house prices are too expensive. I also think there is something missing from the story.
Why?
Its the case up and down the entire bloody country for a generation of people.
We've ran the numbers for you and they check out.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
Even doing that its incredibly hard to save enough for a deposit, especially when the required amount is increasing annually whenever prices rise. That's the problem with ever escalating prices, the amount needed for the deposit is ever escalating.
Saving £200 a month isn't enough for a deposit if it takes a decade to save for a deposit at that rate, and in a decades time its half of what you need for a deposit.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
A 10% deposit of £215k is £21.5k
Add in solicitors fees, moving fees, etc and you're looking at another few grand.
So you're looking at a decade to save that. But in a decades time more than £21.5k would be needed for the deposit as the price will have risen further, so even that's not enough.
So just how many decades do you expect someone to save for?
The end of the cheap money era makes rampant house price inflation less likely now. That's the case even if we fail to meet construction targets.
Um, prices (both purchase and rent) are based on supply and demand - if demand (population) continues to rise I expect rents will continue their upward climb
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
Or that it would touch the sides even if you could.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
Or that it would touch the sides even if you could.
Joe Manchin, a former longtime Democrat turned independent, said he is “pursuing the process” towards putting his name on the ticket for the Democrat presidential nominee.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
Hang on, is this an inverse four Yorkshiremen sketch?
It’s the heartwarming story of how the grandson of humble immigrants became a success in the UK.
You may remember (though not care...) that last Thursday I had a minor off on my bike. The reason was a newly-opened path that had been created to bypass some new roadworks. Yesterday I went for a run in order to take some photos of the boggy sections that had caused me issues, and the place I had fallen off. I then thought I would send the photos to the people in charge of the works as a mild complaint.
I found that the boggy sections had already been filled in with a better material, the path flattened, and new little drainage channels created to try to take water away.
All in all, though the path probably should not have been opened in the state it was, it was quite fast work by the workmen to fix it (the path has not yet been open for a week). Much better than the local council manages...
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
To build to the point of reducing the increase in house prices will require a massive effort.
Short of building entire cities in the style of the Chinese, crashing house prices is beyond reach.
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
To build to the point of reducing the increase in house prices will require a massive effort.
Short of building entire cities in the style of the Chinese, crashing house prices is beyond reach.
That depends on how high interest rates have to go to enable the government to sell gilts and shore up the currency.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Most of the focus on housing supply and the economy is through the eyes of prices and homebuyers. Important, but I wonder if the government have another supply side objective in mind.
How do you generate growth, quickly, in a mature industrial economy?
You can go in for massive fiscal stimulus but that costs money we don’t have.
You can deregulate big chunks of the economy but we are already pretty deregulated, and areas where that might now help are limited (and bring risks - see global financial crisis).
You can re-enter the single market but that’s off the table politically.
Or you can create a construction boom. Governments since time immemorial have known that construction booms are a surefire way to supercharge economic growth.
(They tend to lead to busts a few years later, but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it).
Joe Manchin, a former longtime Democrat turned independent, said he is “pursuing the process” towards putting his name on the ticket for the Democrat presidential nominee.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
Doesn't he have to be a Democrat ? Last thing I recall he re-registered as an independent.
Can't see the 76 year old getting many proposers from the convention delegates.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
The median UK Salary for age 20-30 is ~£2,100 after tax. And the average UK rent is £1,200/month (at April 2024).
So you've got £900 left after housing.
Energy bills are ~£120 (confused.com, March 2024)
That takes us to about £780
Another £200/month on food (FT, March 2024) takes us to £580
Transport (the bulk of which is work-related - ONS) is about £300/month. We're down to £280.
£80 on phone+internet, (ONS figures from 2022) takes us to £200... so anything we spend on recreation, clothing etc. means we are nowhere near being able to save this kind of sum.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
What does it mean though that housing is too expensive - if nobody was willing to pay, the price would go down until they were.
Except people are willing to pay, because supply is too low and people need a roof over their heads.
Just like gas was too expensive after Russia invaded Ukraine but we still don't want to freeze.
Thankfully gas prices have come down since. A major increase in supply and house prices crashing like gas prices have from their peak would see the country in a much, much better position.
As you say, gas prices changed quickly for an unusual reason. That's not the case for houses, where we know why the prices have gone up: it is expensive and hard to assemble new housing developments, and enough people have the capacity to sustain the extra expense.
Joe Manchin, a former longtime Democrat turned independent, said he is “pursuing the process” towards putting his name on the ticket for the Democrat presidential nominee.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
Might look better for Harris if he enters his name so she can whomp him 3949-0 at the convention.
The only real fix for housing situation is a) building more supply, b) reduce demand and c) get the economy growing sustainabily at above inflation so people are better off... country GDP / per person is growing.
The problem is no government in the past 20+ years has achieved that and we are starting from a terrible position of poor productivity, out of control immigration, and inability to buile anything quickly.
Which is why I have a grim chuckle at the idea that Labour are nailed on for victory at the next general election. I'd be delighted to think they can make some real changes in just 5 years, but we are in a hell of a mess, like a lot of similar countries.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
The end of the cheap money era makes rampant house price inflation less likely now. That's the case even if we fail to meet construction targets.
Um, prices (both purchase and rent) are based on supply and demand - if demand (population) continues to rise I expect rents will continue their upward climb
Yep. But financing cost is also a big factor. You value a property as the capitalized value (at a suitable yield) of its income stream (annual rental value). The yield depends on prevailing interest rates.
So value = numerator/denominator where the numerator is rental value (affected by property supply & demand) and the denominator is the yield (affected by interest rates).
Demand exceeding supply increases the numerator and therefore increases prices. Low interest rates decreases the denominator and therefore also increases prices.
The 2nd factor has gone away now but the 1st one hasn't (unless we build a lot more).
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
And how much do you spend on rent each month?
And how many decades did you intend for her, or yourself, to save a deposit up for?
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
But enough.
Or maybe she has explored them and still cannot afford it. Why do you assume young people are idiots, I've seen you do this multiple times.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
The median UK Salary for age 20-30 is ~£2,100 after tax. And the average UK rent is £1,200/month (at April 2024).
So you've got £900 left after housing.
Energy bills are ~£120 (confused.com, March 2024)
That takes us to about £780
Another £200/month on food (FT, March 2024) takes us to £580
Transport (the bulk of which is work-related - ONS) is about £300/month. We're down to £280.
£80 on phone+internet, (ONS figures from 2022) takes us to £200... so anything we spend on recreation, clothing etc. means we are nowhere near being able to save this kind of sum.
Is £1200 average rent outside of London or does it include London?
I’m not disputing anything about your post, even if you are able to get somewhere say for £900 a month you’re still up against it.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
The median UK Salary for age 20-30 is ~£2,100 after tax. And the average UK rent is £1,200/month (at April 2024).
So you've got £900 left after housing.
Energy bills are ~£120 (confused.com, March 2024)
That takes us to about £780
Another £200/month on food (FT, March 2024) takes us to £580
Transport (the bulk of which is work-related - ONS) is about £300/month. We're down to £280.
£80 on phone+internet, (ONS figures from 2022) takes us to £200... so anything we spend on recreation, clothing etc. means we are nowhere near being able to save this kind of sum.
I think people need to get on compare the meerkat if that is what the average person is paying.
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
But enough.
Or maybe she has explored them and still cannot afford it. Why do you assume young people are idiots, I've seen you do this multiple times.
Oh FFS - I am writing about the story not giving details, not about young people in general.
If potatoes were too expensive, and there was a national chip shortage crisis, nobody would suggest a government "help to buy a bag of chips" subsidy, or shared social chips schemes, or targetting chips at certain parts of the population, or just eating other root vegetables for a decade until you can save up for some chips.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
What does it mean though that housing is too expensive - if nobody was willing to pay, the price would go down until they were.
Except people are willing to pay, because supply is too low and people need a roof over their heads.
Just like gas was too expensive after Russia invaded Ukraine but we still don't want to freeze.
Thankfully gas prices have come down since. A major increase in supply and house prices crashing like gas prices have from their peak would see the country in a much, much better position.
As you say, gas prices changed quickly for an unusual reason. That's not the case for houses, where we know why the prices have gone up: it is expensive and hard to assemble new housing developments, and enough people have the capacity to sustain the extra expense.
No, that's not remotely the reason why.
Land that gains consent is suddenly worth 10x land without it. That has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of assembling new developments, indeed its a cost that new developments have to shoulder.
Housing, and land, could and should cost a lot less in this country.
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
But enough.
Or maybe she has explored them and still cannot afford it. Why do you assume young people are idiots, I've seen you do this multiple times.
Oh FFS - I am writing about the story not giving details, not about young people in general.
You keep saying things that are obvious. I do think you have an idea that young people are a bit thick and are wasting their money.
If potatoes were too expensive, and there was a national chip shortage crisis, nobody would suggest a government "help to buy a bag of chips" subsidy, or shared social chips schemes, or targetting chips at certain parts of the population, or just eating other root vegetables for a decade until you can save up for some chips.
WE'D PLANT AND GROWN MORE BLOODY POTATOES!
Unless Ed Miliband is in charge, then he would reserve the best potato growing land for solar panels ;-)
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
The bigger issue is the French attitude to development.
This was taken from a tiny village on the outskirts of Chablis. It shows the new Laroche facility on the outskirts of Chablis.
The village is going to be swallowed by Chablis expanding in the next few years.
When I spoke to the locals, they thought this was awesome. Chablis will become a city. The new Laroche plant is really nice to work in. Etc
The owner of the place we were staying (from where I took the photo) works for a rival winemaker. He was massively in favour of the new wine making plants, of which this is one - “Big, clean & tidy. Shows the country we are serious.”
If potatoes were too expensive, and there was a national chip shortage crisis, nobody would suggest a government "help to buy a bag of chips" subsidy, or shared social chips schemes, or targetting chips at certain parts of the population, or just eating other root vegetables for a decade until you can save up for some chips.
WE'D PLANT AND GROW MORE BLOODY POTATOES!
The problem is we have a body politic that wants high potato prices and loves the potato shortage. And a planning system that lets nosy neighbours who should be told to eff off and mind their own business are instead allowed to object to others planting potatoes.
The Dems still have a significant Biden problem. He’s too senile to stand again, but he’s just fine and dandy to be leader of the free world until November?
Every gaffe he makes between now and then will remind voters that the Democrats were prepared, until the last moment, to foist a clearly-demented president on voters for a second term
He really needs to step down from the job, as well
Paradoxically, the thought of a doddery old has-been in the White House might harm Trump more than Kamala. (eta I agree Biden should step down.)
I think this is gonna be a real issue for the Dems as the illogicality sinks in with voters. “OK we admit, he’s in grave cognitive decline, the debate showed the real Biden, he’s gaga. But he’s keeping the job and the nuclear codes til January 2025, he’ll be fine, stop worrying”
This is unsustainable. It’s THE attack line for the GOP and they will surely use it, relentlessly
“How can we trust anything you say when you kept an insane man in the White House, a man who is getting worse, daily, and by the way he’s STILL THERE”
You can't see the difference between four more months, and four more years ?
Biden's current capacity is a legitimate question, but yours is hardly a slam dunk argument.
It’s unarguable. Biden is not gonna be the Dem candidate because we all saw his dementia in the debate. Biden himself has now admitted it - unless he’s quitting for some OTHER reason he hasn’t specified?
Yet he’s absolutely ticketty boo to have the toughest most important job in the world til next year? Even tho he’s demented, and admits it?
We all saw his AGE in the debate. Do you think there is no gradation in the very old between being exactly the same as they were 40 years ago and having dementia? My grandmother is about Biden's age and she occasionally repeats a story she told a few hours ago or forgets a name but she doesn't have dementia. I agree that he was too old to run but don't present your speculation as a fact.
Biden thinks President Zelensky is President Putin. That’s why he has now admitted he’s not fit to stand again even tho a week ago he firmly told us he was absolutely fine, never better. How did he misjudge himself so badly? Is there something wrong with his brain, do you think?
Anyway even tho he’s not standing because he’s thinks President Zelensky is President Putin he’s still absolutely fine to be President of the United States but it’s all ok because Hunter the crack addict will run everything until next January
Of course he doesn't think Zelenski is Putin. He mixed up the name and then corrected himself. I'm not saying he's not showing signs of aging but it's different from dementia.
When you reach his age you wouldn't be best pleased if your children carted you off to the nursing home just because you mix up names occasionally or ramble a bit when trying to tell a story. Let's face it you often fulfil the latter criteria already
“It’s just my brain”
There's two separate questions that you and many of the other right wing posters on here are deliberately conflating.
Firstly is it wise to have someone who is Biden's age (let alone in 4 years time) running the country? I think not because when you reach that age you begin to show signs of decline either physically or mentally to varying degrees. That's as true of Biden as it is Trump, McConnell or Feinstein.
Secondly does Biden have dementia which is an entirely separate thing. You don't know that and are only speculating but present it as a fact and arguing for a cover up based on that speculating.
Just wrong. Nobody is overly fussed about your first point. On the second, I am speculating about whether Biden has dementia like I speculate about whether night follows day. He has dementia.
And you are such a world expert that you can diagnose it from a few minutes of TV clips...
Exactly! No one on this forum is remotely able to say for sure that he has dementia. He might do but it's just wrong to suggest it's a fact or that his acceptance that he doesn't have the ability to serve another term is a tacit admittance that he has dementia.
How come he believed and told us he was absolutely fine one minute and never better (as many journalists agreed) and then the next day he was suddenly unfit to serve again? Did he go into a massive cognitive decline in 24 hours? Is that what happened????
He was quite definite about “being fine” so I can only presume he got Alzheimer’s during lunch
I love the way, amongst all your other 'skills', you can now diagnose 100% accurately conditions such as Alzheimer's without any contact from the patient. I'm sure the NHS would love you to train up doctors.
Biden said nothing about standing down because of illness. It might just be that he has realised that there was little chance of politically coming back from the position he was in, and it was best for the party and country to let someone else take on Trump.
This is beyond ridiculous. You are like a smoker who is told he will get lung cancer and who gets lung cancer and now you are saying nothing to do with fags, it's definitely radon to blame.
It really is not.
What we have here is non-medically trained people looking at an elderly man's baheviour and diagnosing Alzheimer's. To use your analogy: you have someone who has smoked a few cigarettes a year during adulthood, who is now ill. You may think "Aha! Lung cancer!" and you might be correct. But it might also be (for example) pneumonia.
Not Alzheimer's, just dementia. Again, can you not tell when someone is drunk?
Alzheimer is of course one type of dementia. Personally I don't think Biden has dementia. He is just old and frail and slowing down. Key is the fact that when he forgets or says the wrong thing he often corrects himself and when he gets confused between names they are often related eg Putin/Zelenski, Harris/Trump and not a completely unrelated name. Trump gets names wrong all the time as we all do. However when we do it, it is laughed off as a Freudian slip but when Biden mixes up Putin/Zelenski and does stuff like this now too frequently it is embarrassing and he can't be relied upon. He is just too old. However to dish out words like demented and in particularly mad (as has been done) is I think nonsense. He is just too old, frail and slowing down mentally for the job.
Trump equally I don't think is demented and also is not mentally too old, but I do think there are ample grounds to consider him mad.
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Building more houses seems like the best way. Mainly because the problem is we don't have enough of them. Every person that buys a new build is one less bidder for an existing house. Increasing supply should help depress prices.
If potatoes were too expensive, and there was a national chip shortage crisis, nobody would suggest a government "help to buy a bag of chips" subsidy, or shared social chips schemes, or targetting chips at certain parts of the population, or just eating other root vegetables for a decade until you can save up for some chips.
WE'D PLANT AND GROW MORE BLOODY POTATOES!
But there aren't enough seed potatoes in the store. You're not suggesting.... buying more? That's impossible!!!!!!
200 a month for ten years is 24000. And would appreciate with interest (at least it would in the current climate). What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
I feel like you have the idea that people can just get £200 out of thin air.
She basically earns what I earn, so I know how much she gets in each month. The story does not say what goes out each month, so its impossible to say if she could save 200 pound a month, but its not magicking up then money.
But you have a mortgage and a partner.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
I'm going to stop because most of you are arguing a different point to the one I was trying to make, which is that for me (and maybe its just me) the headline is NOT supported by evidence in the story. But enough. I'm not accusing her of going out every night and being fiscally imprudent. I am suggesting that there may (may) be options that she has chosen not to explore.
But enough.
Or maybe she has explored them and still cannot afford it. Why do you assume young people are idiots, I've seen you do this multiple times.
Oh FFS - I am writing about the story not giving details, not about young people in general.
You keep saying things that are obvious. I do think you have an idea that young people are a bit thick and are wasting their money.
If I am honest I think the whole country is a bit thick at times, and we do waste money on stuff. I do. I am rubbish at making a packed lunch, for instance. Right now, with a young son at nursery and a much larger mortgage to pay for an extension I am feeling the pinch.
I also think that times have changed. Borrowing money (credit cards, car loans etc) is now embedded in out culture. The idea of saving up and waiting for stuff is gone. I think it must be pretty shit trying to save an impossible sum for a deposit, but I also think peoples expectations can sometimes be too high. When my parents were young they didn't go out for months on end. My grandparents gave my dad a tenner once to buy stuff for my older sister (then an infant). My dad spent it on a night in the pub, as they hadn't had one in months.
Life is short - sometimes the idea of scrimping and saving (if its possible at all) is just too hard.
Dem concerns that Biden has a loyal personal vote which will be upset, and won’t transfer to Harris
“Yes, this is a problem! I promise, I talk to more voters every day than almost any of you and there is a substantial share of primarily-older voters who like Biden personally. I don’t know if it’s offset by the skeptics who’d come back but it’s real.”
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Building more houses seems like the best way. Mainly because the problem is we don't have enough of them. Every person that buys a new build is one less bidder for an existing house. Increasing supply should help depress prices.
It's far more complicated than that. There are a lot of empty houses which could be brought into public ownership/use not to mention the numbers of second/holiday homes which are often empty for months at a time.
The other side is are the right houses in the right places? The much derided (on here) Planning process should ensure what gets needed gets built not what maximises profits for property developers. We need affordable and rentable housing in many areas more then we need new 4-bedroom houses for ownership so let's get the balance right, let's not run the hosuing market for the benefit of property developers and speculators.
Another problem to which I alluded last evening is infrastructure - it's not just building houses, it's ábout water, sewage, power, transport, education, medical and a raft of other things. Finally, as there are only a finite number of certain specialist trades we can only build a certain number of houses in each area at any one time. "Putting spades in the ground" - a new mantra for the 2020s - is just the beginning of a long and often complex process.
We've also seen plenty of evidence some of the builders cut corners and produce poor quality housing which adds to costs and problems later so we need proper QA of each construction project to ensure we get proper well constructed homes not just four walls and a roof which look good on Government statistics.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
I want to congratulate you on finally producing a post that isn't total bollocks.
We look forward to the day we can congratulate you for the same.
That day I can assure you, is not coming.
Do you too enjoy tripe, is that why you give me likes?
I love tripe.
Anyway you're a dev of some kind right, and thus able to wfh? You should move to County Durham. Our (15 year) mortgage is is like 20% of my take home (never mind my wife's), admittedly on a decent salary.
If everyone insists on living in the hive of scum and villainy that is the South East then more fool them.
(Not denying there is a housing crisis. There's even one in the North East to an extent. But this crowding around London I do not understand. Are you not baking in the heat during summer? Yes there's lots to do in London but there's lots to do in Newcastle and you can only do one thing at once!)
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
The bigger issue is the French attitude to development.
This was taken from a tiny village on the outskirts of Chablis. It shows the new Laroche facility on the outskirts of Chablis.
The village is going to be swallowed by Chablis expanding in the next few years.
When I spoke to the locals, they thought this was awesome. Chablis will become a city. The new Laroche plant is really nice to work in. Etc
The owner of the place we were staying (from where I took the photo) works for a rival winemaker. He was massively in favour of the new wine making plants, of which this is one - “Big, clean & tidy. Shows the country we are serious.”
It's also easier when you have around 4x the land area to play with.
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
No money in the Pointer family at all when I were a lad; I chose my family badly.
But I got a job working for a life assurance company and after one year's service at age 21, I could take out a zero deposit 5 x salary 3.5% fixed rate mortgage (in 1981). So at least my job choice was a wise one.
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
It's Polymarket. They're out of their fucking tree. And they've even got a "justification" of Obama not endorsing anyone to feed their delusions.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
A housing unit 6'6" by 8'2" - are you sure?
A quick search suggests that average house size is considerably greater in France than in the UK. City apartments, quite similar ? (Quora) As in any global city, housing in Paris is scarce due to its dense population.
I partly grew up in Paris, and the conventional Parisian terminology of apartment sizes is:—
“studio” — 9–35 sq metres (97–370 sq feet) 1-bedroom / d’une chambre — 30–70 sqm (320–750 sf) 2-bedroom / de deux chambres — 50–120 sqm (530–1300 sf) 3-bedroom / de trois chambres — 80–250 sqm (850–2600 sf) 4-bedroom / de quatre chambres — 120–300+ sqm (1300–3300+ sf) Paris apartments are pretty much similar in size to London flats.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
The bigger issue is the French attitude to development.
This was taken from a tiny village on the outskirts of Chablis. It shows the new Laroche facility on the outskirts of Chablis.
The village is going to be swallowed by Chablis expanding in the next few years.
When I spoke to the locals, they thought this was awesome. Chablis will become a city. The new Laroche plant is really nice to work in. Etc
The owner of the place we were staying (from where I took the photo) works for a rival winemaker. He was massively in favour of the new wine making plants, of which this is one - “Big, clean & tidy. Shows the country we are serious.”
It's also easier when you have around 4x the land area to play with.
The land round Chablis is insanely valuable - designated wine growing and all that. So very constrained as to where you can build. Not on the Terroir, no sir...
But they build like crazy on what's left. And if you have an old, falling down 18th cent barn? Screw preserving it.... Turn it into a holiday home for the Roast Beefs.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
I want to congratulate you on finally producing a post that isn't total bollocks.
We look forward to the day we can congratulate you for the same.
That day I can assure you, is not coming.
Do you too enjoy tripe, is that why you give me likes?
I love tripe.
Anyway you're a dev of some kind right, and thus able to wfh? You should move to County Durham. Our (15 year) mortgage is is like 20% of my take home (never mind my wife's), admittedly on a decent salary.
If everyone insists on living in the hive of scum and villainy that is the South East then more fool them.
(Not denying there is a housing crisis. There's even one in the North East to an extent. But this crowding around London I do not understand. Are you not baking in the heat during summer? Yes there's lots to do in London but there's lots to do in Newcastle and you can only do one thing at once!)
I am not far from you, bout 4 miles, I am mortgage free. Paid it off in 7 years. Live in a really nice area. My house has gone up by 150% since I bought it in value but is still very cheap compared to like for like in an equally nice part of the South.
Anyway, baking heat is rare up here too so another plus.
Newcastle is a great City to visit, Durham is improving and even Sunderland seems to be on the up. The Fire Station is a great venue for starters.
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
It's Polymarket. They're out of their fucking tree. And they've even got a "justification" of Obama not endorsing anyone to feed their delusions.
They didn't just fall out of a coconut tree. They exist in the context of all the craziness that came before them.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
A housing unit 6'6" by 8'2" - are you sure?
A quick search suggests that average house size is considerably greater in France than in the UK. City apartments, quite similar ? (Quora) As in any global city, housing in Paris is scarce due to its dense population.
I partly grew up in Paris, and the conventional Parisian terminology of apartment sizes is:—
“studio” — 9–35 sq metres (97–370 sq feet) 1-bedroom / d’une chambre — 30–70 sqm (320–750 sf) 2-bedroom / de deux chambres — 50–120 sqm (530–1300 sf) 3-bedroom / de trois chambres — 80–250 sqm (850–2600 sf) 4-bedroom / de quatre chambres — 120–300+ sqm (1300–3300+ sf) Paris apartments are pretty much similar in size to London flats.
Paris has a much higher population density than London. A lot more 4, 5, 6-storey buildings.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
Someone mentioned French household sizes earlier, in contrast to England and Wales from Census 2021. In France, they tolerate 5-10 square metre housing units. Not true in England.
A housing unit 6'6" by 8'2" - are you sure?
A quick search suggests that average house size is considerably greater in France than in the UK. City apartments, quite similar ? (Quora) As in any global city, housing in Paris is scarce due to its dense population.
I partly grew up in Paris, and the conventional Parisian terminology of apartment sizes is:—
“studio” — 9–35 sq metres (97–370 sq feet) 1-bedroom / d’une chambre — 30–70 sqm (320–750 sf) 2-bedroom / de deux chambres — 50–120 sqm (530–1300 sf) 3-bedroom / de trois chambres — 80–250 sqm (850–2600 sf) 4-bedroom / de quatre chambres — 120–300+ sqm (1300–3300+ sf) Paris apartments are pretty much similar in size to London flats.
Joe Manchin, a former longtime Democrat turned independent, said he is “pursuing the process” towards putting his name on the ticket for the Democrat presidential nominee.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
Doesn't he have to be a Democrat ? Last thing I recall he re-registered as an independent.
Can't see the 76 year old getting many proposers from the convention delegates.
There had been some chatter that Sen Joe Manchin, who recently changed his party affiliation to independent, might mount a bid for the Democratic nomination, but Reuters has a quick snap that he has, in a CBS interview, now ruled it out.
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Building more houses seems like the best way. Mainly because the problem is we don't have enough of them. Every person that buys a new build is one less bidder for an existing house. Increasing supply should help depress prices.
It's far more complicated than that. There are a lot of empty houses which could be brought into public ownership/use not to mention the numbers of second/holiday homes which are often empty for months at a time.
The other side is are the right houses in the right places? The much derided (on here) Planning process should ensure what gets needed gets built not what maximises profits for property developers. We need affordable and rentable housing in many areas more then we need new 4-bedroom houses for ownership so let's get the balance right, let's not run the hosuing market for the benefit of property developers and speculators.
Another problem to which I alluded last evening is infrastructure - it's not just building houses, it's ábout water, sewage, power, transport, education, medical and a raft of other things. Finally, as there are only a finite number of certain specialist trades we can only build a certain number of houses in each area at any one time. "Putting spades in the ground" - a new mantra for the 2020s - is just the beginning of a long and often complex process.
We've also seen plenty of evidence some of the builders cut corners and produce poor quality housing which adds to costs and problems later so we need proper QA of each construction project to ensure we get proper well constructed homes not just four walls and a roof which look good on Government statistics.
Lots of empty houses. Not really. Some houses being empty due to churn, renovations, not being fit for purpose is entirely natural. The problem is that there aren't enough empty houses.
Are the houses getting built in the right places? Yes.
There is not a single county in the entire country without a housing shortage. There is nowhere in the entire country that does not need more housing. The problem isn't houses getting built in the wrong places, its that not enough are getting built.
New 4-bedroom houses These are desperately needed. Most new builds are going towards young people, and young people want families and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone who moves into a new 4 bed home of their own is now not in or seeking an "affordable" or rentable home which reduces demand on that sector.
Water, sewage etc This is the responsibility of the water firms etc, not housing developers. They need to do their own bloody job and be fined into bankruptcy if they don't and be replaced by someone else who will if they don't.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
I am referring to the specific example given on the BBC - with not enough information to judge. I keep agreeing that housing is too expensive. It is. But there isn't a silver bullet for that (0% deposits would help). Her story is lacking detail.
0% deposits wouldn't even touch the sides.
0% deposits would just result increased prices.
Fundamentally there is a scarcity of a desirable good (high quality housing).
Therefore people will pay the maximum they can afford.
Making it easier for people to buy simply results in the marginal bidder paying more for the asset (albeit as a result of mispricing the risk of 0% deposit).
At the end of the day the only option is to reduce demand (continuing to bear down on returns for investors) and increase supply (build more suitable properties)
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
It's Polymarket. They're out of their fucking tree. And they've even got a "justification" of Obama not endorsing anyone to feed their delusions.
They didn't just fall out of a coconut tree. They exist in the context of all the craziness that came before them.
Well quite, and a lot of the participants are wealthy crypto bros which implies a certain level of insanity at this point, backed up by the arrogance that previously getting one call VERY, VERY right will give you.
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
It's Polymarket. They're out of their fucking tree. And they've even got a "justification" of Obama not endorsing anyone to feed their delusions.
I'm getting a bit reluctant to mock Polymarket as I mocked it for thinking Biden was going to drop out once the debate happened and the market was right and I was wrong. I think you need to at least consider the possibility that the market knows more than you do.
There's a comments section where you can often connect actual (pseudonymous) posters with their positions, but in crypto-economics we're always asking "what would a rational self-interested person do" and if they had inside information they'd post in the comments section to make themselves look like morons. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is selling a paid service to sophisticated punters make their moron posts for them.
Joe Manchin, a former longtime Democrat turned independent, said he is “pursuing the process” towards putting his name on the ticket for the Democrat presidential nominee.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
Thinking there should be a process is different from thinking a specific alternative to Kamala Harris would be better. Obama for instance might be quite happy for the process to clearly land with Harris. As far as I know he hasn't hinted at an alternative to her
In the south east of England and London, we just need to build, build, build.
More flats in urban locations. More houses where there is space. Expand existing towns. Create new towns with transport links. Build the infrastructure that comes with it.
Some of these will be quicker than others to implement but we shouldn't be aiming to just catch up on previous underinvestment, we should look forward to future growth in demand.
Other areas of the country I know less well, but the principle is one of demand led construction. If prices are high, it's a sign demand is high and builders should want to build if permitted.
In the south east of England and London, we just need to build, build, build.
More flats in urban locations. More houses where there is space. Expand existing towns. Create new towns with transport links. Build the infrastructure that comes with it.
Some of these will be quicker than others to implement but we shouldn't be aiming to just catch up on previous underinvestment, we should look forward to future growth in demand.
Other areas of the country I know less well, but the principle is one of demand led construction. If prices are high, it's a sign demand is high and builders should want to build if permitted.
Labour should just crack on and do it, especially in areas that are Lib Dem/Tory contests as there is no electoral consequence, or very little consequence, for them.
Kerry was a prosecutor but it didn't help him in 2004 to win
George W. Bush wasn’t a criminal.
He was, he had a conviction for DUI, even if only a minor criminal he had a criminal record
Absolutely comparable to the legal issues Trump has.
PS - I hope Buttigieg endorsing Harris hasn’t hurt you too much.
No, just confirmed my view that Trump will now win Middle America comfortably in November if Harris gets a coronation. Coronations didn't exactly help Howard, Brown, May and Sunak win big election victories here
Still awaiting news from Obamaland.
So hard to tell the difference between "somebody knows something" and "somebody is completely out of their fucking tree"
It's Polymarket. They're out of their fucking tree. And they've even got a "justification" of Obama not endorsing anyone to feed their delusions.
I'm getting a bit reluctant to mock Polymarket as I mocked it for thinking Biden was going to drop out once the debate happened and the market was right and I was wrong. I think you need to at least consider the possibility that the market knows more than you do.
There's a comments section where you can often connect actual (pseudonymous) posters with their positions, but in crypto-economics we're always asking "what would a rational self-interested person do" and if they had inside information they'd post in the comments section to make themselves look like morons. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is selling a paid service to sophisticated punters make their moron posts for them.
I consider it all the time. TBH, it's usually the case. That's why I'm not placing bets all over the place continually
But in this case I absolutely know more than the market. Michelle isn't running.
Worth noting this has been a feature of the last 3 elections as well. Someone's had a permanent Michelle hard on. A bit like David Milliband used to feature suspiciously in UK markets for ages, although I think that's finally stopped.
I know people on here don't think its an option, but many people DO flatshare. I did. It can be fun. It can be shit. Surely one way to save money?
A colleague has taken a job in Newcastle but is staying in Bath and commuting. She rents a room in a house with another professional for her time in Newcastle. Could the lady in the story do that for a year or two?
You are incredibly out of touch. Most people already flatshare, I can't think of anyone in their 20s who I know that doesn't. Nobody can afford to live on their own unless they have significant savings or a very good salary.
You're suggesting things that even the most stupid 20 year old has already done.
The problem is that you're coming at this from the angle of "if only they did this". It doesn't work like that, housing is too expensive, there is no getting away from it. No amount of lifestyle change is going to change that.
Just accept you've got it wrong.
A telling statistic is that France has about the same population as do we - and about 8m more households.
And weirdly, higher rates of overcrowding and roughly similar house prices (relative to incomes).
I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
The solution to the housing crisis is not a price crash. That causes far more problems than it solves, with significant losers, and it’s not a good idea to exchange one group or disadvantaged people with another.
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Building more houses seems like the best way. Mainly because the problem is we don't have enough of them. Every person that buys a new build is one less bidder for an existing house. Increasing supply should help depress prices.
It's far more complicated than that. There are a lot of empty houses which could be brought into public ownership/use not to mention the numbers of second/holiday homes which are often empty for months at a time.
The other side is are the right houses in the right places? The much derided (on here) Planning process should ensure what gets needed gets built not what maximises profits for property developers. We need affordable and rentable housing in many areas more then we need new 4-bedroom houses for ownership so let's get the balance right, let's not run the hosuing market for the benefit of property developers and speculators.
Another problem to which I alluded last evening is infrastructure - it's not just building houses, it's ábout water, sewage, power, transport, education, medical and a raft of other things. Finally, as there are only a finite number of certain specialist trades we can only build a certain number of houses in each area at any one time. "Putting spades in the ground" - a new mantra for the 2020s - is just the beginning of a long and often complex process.
We've also seen plenty of evidence some of the builders cut corners and produce poor quality housing which adds to costs and problems later so we need proper QA of each construction project to ensure we get proper well constructed homes not just four walls and a roof which look good on Government statistics.
All valid points. Nevertheless the fundamental equation holds. Builders aren't going to put up buildings for which there is no demand. Each new building reduces pressure elsewhere.
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
No money in the Pointer family at all when I were a lad; I chose my family badly.
But I got a job working for a life assurance company and after one year's service at age 21, I could take out a zero deposit 5 x salary 3.5% fixed rate mortgage (in 1981). So at least my job choice was a wise one.
Kids today have it easy in comparison.
I have a similar background. I was born in a Leicester council house, and my mum lives in a council flat. I'm inheriting the square root of feck all, but I was fortunate enough to buy a house in the 80s and worked all my life. The most I ever earned was low 30ks a year, and that was only the last few years before I retired. I went on strike for "30k Fire Pay" back in 2003, and that didn't materialise until the late 2010s! My kids will inherit a fair chunk of cash each, when I pop my clogs. Mind you, if I live as long as I want too, that chunk might only buy a bag of chips.
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
No money in the Pointer family at all when I were a lad; I chose my family badly.
But I got a job working for a life assurance company and after one year's service at age 21, I could take out a zero deposit 5 x salary 3.5% fixed rate mortgage (in 1981). So at least my job choice was a wise one.
Kids today have it easy in comparison.
I have a similar background. I was born in a Leicester council house, and my mum lives in a council flat. I'm inheriting the square root of feck all, but I was fortunate enough to buy a house in the 80s and worked all my life. The most I ever earned was low 30ks a year, and that was only the last few years before I retired. I went on strike for "30k Fire Pay" back in 2003, and that didn't materialise until the late 2010s! My kids will inherit a fair chunk of cash each, when I pop my clogs. Mind you, if I live as long as I want too, that chunk might only buy a bag of chips.
Enjoy it yourself, your kids will only waste it on their own enjoyment!
Even if there was a competitive process put in place for the convention, Harris would now walk it in the same way Biden did the nomination process (i.e. no competitive alternative to her would be put forward).
Could she flat share? Or take in a lodger? Who knows?
And did you do a flat share or take in a lodger?
Yes - I lived in many shared accommodations during my time pre-mortgage.
And how much money were you able to save? What deposit did you need, how much was your mortgage?
I lived pretty well. In NZ I shared a shitty house with three others and saved about 3-4 grand in a year. Helped when I moved back to the UK in 1999. I lived in shared houses in Norwich when at UEA and saved money there.
I was very lucky that my wife and I were gifted a deposit. Without that it would have been tougher but we would have saved.
I know its hard and for some, impossible. I just think her story is not playing fair with the reader.
So you saved about £10K for a deposit over a few years? What was your mortgage worth?
Lightweight - twin A saved £15,000 in 31 months
Hang on - so it IS possible?
Mid 2010s we saved £1k+ per month for deposit for our first home (which cost ~£200k). But but our combined income was ~£90k in today's money (we were on ~£35k each at the time) and our rent on a reasonably nice, but small, two bed house was £700pcm.
So, the lady in question on, probably after tax about half the take home income, and with lord knows what rent - I can believe it's much more of a struggle
You’re all slackers.
I bought my first house before I even started my first job.
Thanks to my parents providing the deposit and first few month of mortgage payments.
Granny Eagles provided some money to furnish the place.
But it was all down to my hard work obviously.
No money in the Pointer family at all when I were a lad; I chose my family badly.
But I got a job working for a life assurance company and after one year's service at age 21, I could take out a zero deposit 5 x salary 3.5% fixed rate mortgage (in 1981). So at least my job choice was a wise one.
Kids today have it easy in comparison.
I have a similar background. I was born in a Leicester council house, and my mum lives in a council flat. I'm inheriting the square root of feck all, but I was fortunate enough to buy a house in the 80s and worked all my life. The most I ever earned was low 30ks a year, and that was only the last few years before I retired. I went on strike for "30k Fire Pay" back in 2003, and that didn't materialise until the late 2010s! My kids will inherit a fair chunk of cash each, when I pop my clogs. Mind you, if I live as long as I want too, that chunk might only buy a bag of chips.
Enjoy it yourself, your kids will only waste it on their own enjoyment!
Everytime I rock up at their houses in our tricked up VW van with 10 grands worth of mountain bikes on the back, I can see the disappointment in their eyes!
I'm not 100% convinced it was what everyone who told Joe to drop out wanted, but yes it looks like a 1.01 shot to me now.
Any other candidate would have torn the party apart, which is why I thought it would always be Harris if Biden (Who I thought would stick it out !) didn't seek re-election.
Comments
Yes it lacks some detail, all stories do, but what more do you need? Its the facts of life for almost anyone who is not getting support from others nowadays which is a disgraceful situation to be in.
What is the minimum deposit needed to buy a house/flat in Birmingham? The number given is the average first time buyer price of 215K.
As long as the rich give money to their kids, the housing bubble will continue to be inflated.
People already aren't willing or able to pay, that's why renting has exploded. But then landlords gouge people there too.
Housing is legalised corruption and cartel tactics.
Build so many houses that people will be getting irate about their 8 year old kid winning another house from a cereal box voucher. "Bloody hell, he has 6 already". Build so many that the homeless have a choice of which of their house's garages they sleep in*.
*PJ O'Rourke commented on the Savings & Loan scandal, that if the money had been spent on buying commercial property, they could have given every homeless person in the US their own commercial building, to sleep in the boiler room thereof.
Just like gas was too expensive after Russia invaded Ukraine but we still don't want to freeze.
Thankfully gas prices have come down since. A major increase in supply and house prices crashing like gas prices have from their peak would see the country in a much, much better position.
https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/drone-captures-horror-blaze-near-29447023
Add in solicitors fees, moving fees, etc and you're looking at another few grand.
So you're looking at a decade to save that. But in a decades time more than £21.5k would be needed for the deposit as the price will have risen further, so even that's not enough.
So just how many decades do you expect someone to save for?
A number of years of flatlining prices coupled with economic growth and wage increases is needed. The only way to do that is to increase demand at a proportionate and measured level. So it’s a tricky balancing act.
Everybody wants to blame someone. It's the American disease.
“I think going through some sort of a process would have been very enlightening to everybody. So I’m pursuing the process. I really believe strongly along with, I think, former President Obama and speaker Nancy Pelosi both think there should be a process.”
So it is a bit four Yorkshireman.
You may remember (though not care...) that last Thursday I had a minor off on my bike. The reason was a newly-opened path that had been created to bypass some new roadworks. Yesterday I went for a run in order to take some photos of the boggy sections that had caused me issues, and the place I had fallen off. I then thought I would send the photos to the people in charge of the works as a mild complaint.
I found that the boggy sections had already been filled in with a better material, the path flattened, and new little drainage channels created to try to take water away.
All in all, though the path probably should not have been opened in the state it was, it was quite fast work by the workmen to fix it (the path has not yet been open for a week). Much better than the local council manages...
Short of building entire cities in the style of the Chinese, crashing house prices is beyond reach.
Just give up the argument as the only thing you have in common with her is your salary
How do you generate growth, quickly, in a mature industrial economy?
You can go in for massive fiscal stimulus but that costs money we don’t have.
You can deregulate big chunks of the economy but we are already pretty deregulated, and areas where that might now help are limited (and bring risks - see global financial crisis).
You can re-enter the single market but that’s off the table politically.
Or you can create a construction boom. Governments since time immemorial have known that construction booms are a surefire way to supercharge economic growth.
(They tend to lead to busts a few years later, but we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it).
Last thing I recall he re-registered as an independent.
Can't see the 76 year old getting many proposers from the convention delegates.
So you've got £900 left after housing.
Energy bills are ~£120 (confused.com, March 2024)
That takes us to about £780
Another £200/month on food (FT, March 2024) takes us to £580
Transport (the bulk of which is work-related - ONS) is about £300/month. We're down to £280.
£80 on phone+internet, (ONS figures from 2022) takes us to £200... so anything we spend on recreation, clothing etc. means we are nowhere near being able to save this kind of sum.
Big effort needed to reprogram against Harris.
But enough.
So value = numerator/denominator where the numerator is rental value (affected by property supply & demand) and the denominator is the yield (affected by interest rates).
Demand exceeding supply increases the numerator and therefore increases prices. Low interest rates decreases the denominator and therefore also increases prices.
The 2nd factor has gone away now but the 1st one hasn't (unless we build a lot more).
And how many decades did you intend for her, or yourself, to save a deposit up for?
I’m not disputing anything about your post, even if you are able to get somewhere say for £900 a month you’re still up against it.
WE'D PLANT AND GROW MORE BLOODY POTATOES!
Land that gains consent is suddenly worth 10x land without it. That has absolutely nothing to do with the cost of assembling new developments, indeed its a cost that new developments have to shoulder.
Housing, and land, could and should cost a lot less in this country.
This was taken from a tiny village on the outskirts of Chablis. It shows the new Laroche facility on the outskirts of Chablis.
The village is going to be swallowed by Chablis expanding in the next few years.
When I spoke to the locals, they thought this was awesome. Chablis will become a city. The new Laroche plant is really nice to work in. Etc
The owner of the place we were staying (from where I took the photo) works for a rival winemaker. He was massively in favour of the new wine making plants, of which this is one - “Big, clean & tidy. Shows the country we are serious.”
Trump equally I don't think is demented and also is not mentally too old, but I do think there are ample grounds to consider him mad.
I also think that times have changed. Borrowing money (credit cards, car loans etc) is now embedded in out culture. The idea of saving up and waiting for stuff is gone. I think it must be pretty shit trying to save an impossible sum for a deposit, but I also think peoples expectations can sometimes be too high. When my parents were young they didn't go out for months on end. My grandparents gave my dad a tenner once to buy stuff for my older sister (then an infant). My dad spent it on a night in the pub, as they hadn't had one in months.
Life is short - sometimes the idea of scrimping and saving (if its possible at all) is just too hard.
Dem concerns that Biden has a loyal personal vote which will be upset, and won’t transfer to Harris
“Yes, this is a problem! I promise, I talk to more voters every day than almost any of you and there is a substantial share of primarily-older voters who like Biden personally. I don’t know if it’s offset by the skeptics who’d come back but it’s real.”
https://x.com/whstancil/status/1815348692586725868?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
For amusement, here are some concrete numbers - mine, in fact. I rent, alone, a one-bedroom flat in the south of England:
Rent £825
Council Tax £90
Gas £60
Electric £50
Water £30
Internet £30
Phone £10
Car maintenance £50
Petrol £50
Car insurance £40
Groceries £250
Total £1485.
Of course, there are plenty of other things I buy and have bought - but these are the monthly essentials.
The other side is are the right houses in the right places? The much derided (on here) Planning process should ensure what gets needed gets built not what maximises profits for property developers. We need affordable and rentable housing in many areas more then we need new 4-bedroom houses for ownership so let's get the balance right, let's not run the hosuing market for the benefit of property developers and speculators.
Another problem to which I alluded last evening is infrastructure - it's not just building houses, it's ábout water, sewage, power, transport, education, medical and a raft of other things. Finally, as there are only a finite number of certain specialist trades we can only build a certain number of houses in each area at any one time. "Putting spades in the ground" - a new mantra for the 2020s - is just the beginning of a long and often complex process.
We've also seen plenty of evidence some of the builders cut corners and produce poor quality housing which adds to costs and problems later so we need proper QA of each construction project to ensure we get proper well constructed homes not just four walls and a roof which look good on Government statistics.
Anyway you're a dev of some kind right, and thus able to wfh? You should move to County Durham. Our (15 year) mortgage is is like 20% of my take home (never mind my wife's), admittedly on a decent salary.
If everyone insists on living in the hive of scum and villainy that is the South East then more fool them.
(Not denying there is a housing crisis. There's even one in the North East to an extent. But this crowding around London I do not understand. Are you not baking in the heat during summer? Yes there's lots to do in London but there's lots to do in Newcastle and you can only do one thing at once!)
But I got a job working for a life assurance company and after one year's service at age 21, I could take out a zero deposit 5 x salary 3.5% fixed rate mortgage (in 1981). So at least my job choice was a wise one.
Kids today have it easy in comparison.
City apartments, quite similar ?
(Quora)
As in any global city, housing in Paris is scarce due to its dense population.
I partly grew up in Paris, and the conventional Parisian terminology of apartment sizes is:—
“studio” — 9–35 sq metres (97–370 sq feet)
1-bedroom / d’une chambre — 30–70 sqm (320–750 sf)
2-bedroom / de deux chambres — 50–120 sqm (530–1300 sf)
3-bedroom / de trois chambres — 80–250 sqm (850–2600 sf)
4-bedroom / de quatre chambres — 120–300+ sqm (1300–3300+ sf)
Paris apartments are pretty much similar in size to London flats.
But they build like crazy on what's left. And if you have an old, falling down 18th cent barn? Screw preserving it.... Turn it into a holiday home for the Roast Beefs.
Anyway, baking heat is rare up here too so another plus.
Newcastle is a great City to visit, Durham is improving and even Sunderland seems to be on the up. The Fire Station is a great venue for starters.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/22/biden-drops-out-endorses-kamala-harris-election-updates
Not really. Some houses being empty due to churn, renovations, not being fit for purpose is entirely natural. The problem is that there aren't enough empty houses.
Are the houses getting built in the right places? Yes.
There is not a single county in the entire country without a housing shortage. There is nowhere in the entire country that does not need more housing. The problem isn't houses getting built in the wrong places, its that not enough are getting built.
New 4-bedroom houses
These are desperately needed. Most new builds are going towards young people, and young people want families and there's nothing wrong with that. Everyone who moves into a new 4 bed home of their own is now not in or seeking an "affordable" or rentable home which reduces demand on that sector.
Water, sewage etc
This is the responsibility of the water firms etc, not housing developers. They need to do their own bloody job and be fined into bankruptcy if they don't and be replaced by someone else who will if they don't.
Fundamentally there is a scarcity of a desirable good (high quality housing).
Therefore people will pay the maximum they can afford.
Making it easier for people to buy simply results in the marginal bidder paying more for the asset (albeit as a result of mispricing the risk of 0% deposit).
At the end of the day the only option is to reduce demand (continuing to bear down on returns for investors) and increase supply (build more suitable properties)
There's a comments section where you can often connect actual (pseudonymous) posters with their positions, but in crypto-economics we're always asking "what would a rational self-interested person do" and if they had inside information they'd post in the comments section to make themselves look like morons. I wouldn't be surprised if someone is selling a paid service to sophisticated punters make their moron posts for them.
More flats in urban locations. More houses where there is space. Expand existing towns. Create new towns with transport links. Build the infrastructure that comes with it.
Some of these will be quicker than others to implement but we shouldn't be aiming to just catch up on previous underinvestment, we should look forward to future growth in demand.
Other areas of the country I know less well, but the principle is one of demand led construction. If prices are high, it's a sign demand is high and builders should want to build if permitted.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgxqgxyv1kpo
Be interesting to see what the tweets said and if he transgressed from fair criticism to something else.
https://x.com/salisbot/status/1815129651850735915
But in this case I absolutely know more than the market. Michelle isn't running.
Worth noting this has been a feature of the last 3 elections as well. Someone's had a permanent Michelle hard on. A bit like David Milliband used to feature suspiciously in UK markets for ages, although I think that's finally stopped.
I assume they have a more extreme version of superheated demand in the cities, second home ownership in the countryside.
My kids will inherit a fair chunk of cash each, when I pop my clogs. Mind you, if I live as long as I want too, that chunk might only buy a bag of chips.
What drives people to call for something that other people enjoy to be banned, even if they themselves are not forced to watch it?
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2024/jul/22/biden-drops-out-endorses-kamala-harris-election-updates#top-of-blog 13:10 BST
This is a done deal isn't it?
Even if there was a competitive process put in place for the convention, Harris would now walk it in the same way Biden did the nomination process (i.e. no competitive alternative to her would be put forward).
For myself, I'm even prepared to make the effort to accept the existence of Mrs Brown's Boys.
Any other candidate would have torn the party apart, which is why I thought it would always be Harris if Biden (Who I thought would stick it out !) didn't seek re-election.