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Tory leadership contenders are close to outing themselves – politicalbetting.com

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  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Can people just stop going to fucking hotels for five minutes please ?

    Context is needed here.
    CPI factor increase, caused by people not cancelling their bookings to hotels when they hike prices up mahoosively. Which will cause the bedwetters at the BoE to not lower rates.#

    Hoorah Henrys taking trips to hotels is going to push my mortgage up !
    More likely to be all the events taking place over the summer. If we had had no tennis, no F1, and no concerts, then hotel demand would be lower.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/07/14/taylor-swift-eras-tour-pressure-uk-inflation-claim/
    At the low end, block booking hotels for asylum seekers might also be a factor.
    Bit like when Labour sticks 5p more on fuel and then "rising fuel costs" get measured into inflation..
    You really are a grumpy sod this morning.

    Labour haven't been in for two weeks and you're already moaning (as are quite a few on here).

    That's the thing - you ask the politically disengaged why they don't vote and apart from those who care as little about voting as they do about pizza toppings or music, the usual answer is "there's no one I want to vote for" or " no one has the right policies".

    Now, I take the view people are looking for a near perfect fit - a Party whose policies are a perfect match. It's an imperfect world - I'm a Lib Dem but there are aspects of LD policy with which I don't agree and aspects of Labour and indeed Conservative policy I support so it's the least imperfect fit. The political culture has evolved so that supporting a Party is like supporting a football team - all or nothing.

    The other problem, when you drill down into what the politically disengaged want, is a concoction of misconceptions about the State and Government and local councils operate which becomes an incoherent view which, if implemented, would lead to economic and social chaos. Cut taxes, increase public spending, stop all immigration at the same time. Reform basically offers this and they do well but it's nonsense - it's unaffordable and unworkable but it's what people want (or purport to want).
    I didn't read the LD manifesto, although I scanned it and even on scanning it I found several things I disagreed with, but that didn't stop me voting for them and even campaigning for them. But that is because they are the best fit for me and by a long way, mainly based upon the underlying principles.

    It is sad that for some it is like following a football team, but I think that is less so now that the class structure has broken down a lot. I am a liberal, but if I found the LDs didn't represent my views (more or less) I would move.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,663
    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    French mystery

    Posters in Brest saying Queers kissing in public is not a spectacle. Show some respect. Queers is written Queers, the rest in french. Genuinely can't tell whether this means show respect by not gawping at them or they should show respect by not doing it.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,942
    edited July 17
    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I think the Turd Hotel has been surpassed here. Chapeau.
    Disagree. It's not in the old town itself, or in Edinburgh, so fails to achieve that huge demerit of the Turd Hotel (in terms of what it does to the overall landscape, so far as I can see).

    Mind, if this new chrome hotel is next to the Roman theatre I will instantly change my mind.
    On that criteria, the Premier Inn on York Place is worse. Nowhere near as bad, but look at the location.

    At least the Turd Hotel is better than what it replaces and is in an existing mix of old and new.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,762

    Nigelb said:

    'Outing themselves' ?

    Is TSE saying that Priti is a pantomime dame ?

    That's the repeatedly disgraced national security risk Dame Priti, isn't it?

    And yet, the Conservatives could reasonably easily do worse.
    Let us not forget she is also a bully.
    Let's hope so. She'll need it to get anything at all done in the situation she'll find the country in.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,762
    nico679 said:

    I think the Tories should go for James Cleverly .

    That would be IMO the unity candidate .

    United in all thinking he's crap?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892

    Nigelb said:

    'Outing themselves' ?

    Is TSE saying that Priti is a pantomime dame ?

    That's the repeatedly disgraced national security risk Dame Priti, isn't it?

    And yet, the Conservatives could reasonably easily do worse.
    Let us not forget she is also a bully.
    Let's hope so. She'll need it to get anything at all done in the situation she'll find the country in.
    You're entertaining the idea that she might yet be PM ?

    Nice one.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I love Arles except the arse hats who stand outside the restaurant made famous by Van Gogh trying to drag customers in.

    Loved walking along the Roman road with all the tombs and the museum is a brilliant collection of Roman antiquities.

    Been riding twice in the camargue on their beautiful horses which is why I went to Arles but wouldn't recommend in the summer as hot as hades, beelzebub’s own fly army are on you constantly and the salt from the marshes seems to coat you and slowly mummify you whilst still alive.
    My daughter loves Van Gogh so we’re gonna have a drink in that cafe. Needs must

    Any other recommends?

    I was thinking of doing the camargue next but if we can’t horse ride…. what else?

    Merci a vous!
    We went to a bull fight. Before people get upset it isn't a proper bull fight. No bulls get hurt, only humans. In fact the bulls seemed to enjoy it as they couldn't get one bull out of the ring and had to bring a docile bull in to coax him out as he didn't want to go. I'm not sure if the bulls are tormented (if so cruel) or are enjoying chasing people.

    The crowd seemed to enjoy getting tourists from Paris to have a go at running away from the bull and I got the feeling they were very much on the side of the bull such is the dislike for Parisians.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,024
    If only Enzo had sung about the Malvinas being occupied by a colonial force, he'd have been worshiped as hero on Twitter.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 81


    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting

    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell



  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,371
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I love Arles except the arse hats who stand outside the restaurant made famous by Van Gogh trying to drag customers in.

    Loved walking along the Roman road with all the tombs and the museum is a brilliant collection of Roman antiquities.

    Been riding twice in the camargue on their beautiful horses which is why I went to Arles but wouldn't recommend in the summer as hot as hades, beelzebub’s own fly army are on you constantly and the salt from the marshes seems to coat you and slowly mummify you whilst still alive.
    My daughter loves Van Gogh so we’re gonna have a drink in that cafe. Needs must

    Any other recommends?

    I was thinking of doing the camargue next but if we can’t horse ride…. what else?

    Merci a vous!
    Re the horses they might do slow guided rides for people who don’t ride so worth investigating. The herds are amazing and worth doing just to have done I guess.

    This is the old Roman road with the Tombs. Morbidly it was my favourite thing in Arles. It had noom but was a beautiful quiet sunny morning I went along and my ex and I saw nobody else so just surrounded by millennia old tombs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyscamps#:~:text=Roman cities traditionally forbade burials,ground for nearly 1,500 years.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,762

    Leon said:

    Every architect in the world should be thrown in the Rhone

    You're just an old fart with a "music from kids today is shit" mentality.

    Whatever people want to build, let them build it. Yes the skyline will change, but that's how the skyline got there in the first place, evolving over time.

    Many great classic buildings were dismissed when they were built as monstrosities, but then became loved over time. While other past buildings never became loved and eventually were replaced.

    Who knows if today's developments are the future greats or future demolishments? Who cares? What actual difference to you does it make.
    Everyone knows, because there is an objective standard of building beauty, just as there is of human beauty. Which is why you're not (I assume) madly attracted to Ann Widdecombe.

    In the same way, brutalist stumps do not become 'loved over time', they stay unloved until they're either mercifully demolished or they get deeply stupid people in authority listing and protecting them.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    Labour's first term will probably be judged, to a great extent, on the outcomes of this policy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jul/17/keir-starmer-kings-speech-house-of-commons-rishi-sunak-conservatives-uk-politics-live
    ..Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister (chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster), was on the Today programme. He is now officially the fourth most important person in government (after Keir Starmer, Angela Rayner and Rachel Reeves), and he defended the approach to planning being outlined in the speech. Here are the main points from his interviews.

    McFadden said that some of Labour’s planning’s reforms would be “controversial”, but that the government had a mandate for these from the election. He told the Today programme:
    We were very clear during the election campaign that we would come out of this on the side of getting things built more quickly.
    That may be controversial in some places, I’ve no doubt that it will be.
    But it’s reasonable for people to expect that, if we said that during the campaign, it’s what they see when the king’s speech is published later today.
    He said it was a “myth” to say that building did not currently take place on the green belt. He told Times Radio:
    It’s simply a myth to say that there are parts of what we call the green belt that haven’t been built on in recent years. And it’s been done in an uncontrolled way.
    And we don’t want to sacrifice the beautiful parts of our countryside. But we do have to get things built in this country.
    He said he accepted that some Labour MPs would object to new developments going ahead under the new rules. “You can have lots of fun in the next couple of years saying, here’s a Labour MP who doesn’t want this particular development. I know that will happen,” he told Times Radio. Asked if that amounted to hypocrisy, he replied:
    I’m not predicting that everything we do is going to be opposed by MPs. But what I’m saying is in the real world, there’ll be some developments that some people don’t like, that’s always going to be the case...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I love Arles except the arse hats who stand outside the restaurant made famous by Van Gogh trying to drag customers in.

    Loved walking along the Roman road with all the tombs and the museum is a brilliant collection of Roman antiquities.

    Been riding twice in the camargue on their beautiful horses which is why I went to Arles but wouldn't recommend in the summer as hot as hades, beelzebub’s own fly army are on you constantly and the salt from the marshes seems to coat you and slowly mummify you whilst still alive.
    My daughter loves Van Gogh so we’re gonna have a drink in that cafe. Needs must

    Any other recommends?

    I was thinking of doing the camargue next but if we can’t horse ride…. what else?

    Merci a vous!
    Re the horses they might do slow guided rides for people who don’t ride so worth investigating. The herds are amazing and worth doing just to have done I guess.

    This is the old Roman road with the Tombs. Morbidly it was my favourite thing in Arles. It had noom but was a beautiful quiet sunny morning I went along and my ex and I saw nobody else so just surrounded by millennia old tombs.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyscamps#:~:text=Roman cities traditionally forbade burials,ground for nearly 1,500 years.
    Apart from some sneaky artist, evidently.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alyscamps#/media/File:Van_gogh_alyscamps_other.jpg
  • Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OT pop pickers. Not half. You probably knew this but I've only just heard this on The Rest is Entertainment. Bands are dead.

    In the first half of the 1980s, bands were at number one for 146 weeks. In the first half of the 1990s, for 141 weeks.

    In the 2020s, three weeks, and one of those was the Beatles.

    More like music is dead.
    More like the music charts are what’s dead.

    The whole music industry business model has come full circle, and bands now make their money from playing live rather than selling little shiny disks. Streaming services are now merely the showcase for ticket sales. It’s no longer just a handful of industry plants making all the money for the record labels, there’s more bands touring and the money is more spread out even as a few stadium artists make nine figures.

    All those concerts though, and venues never having been so busy, unfortunately leads to a shortage of hotel rooms ;)
    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    Anecdotal evidence from friends is that, as the price of eating out has gone up so much, people are not going out every week but instead going out once or twice a month on a bigger night, to a live event rather than just dinner. There’s now so much live music, and comedy, and theatre, that there’s always something on worth seeing.
    My middle lad is a freelance cameraman/photographer and has spent the summer freelancing for various media companies at festivals and. He was working at download for Avenged Sevenfold, did backstage BTS for Sum 41 and the Offspring, then lots of corporate stuff for whoever he could during his downtime. He did the mini Avril Lavigne tour and one thing he heard time and again was them all complaining that they're "barely breaking even". He was also pissed off that no one wants to pay for anything- he got asked to do a lot of stuff for the smaller artists and they wanted to credit him on their socials rather than pay him. He did a few of those for bands he liked, but told one fairly famous band to go fuck themselves when they wanted his help, then got arsey when he baulked at doing a day's work for nowt!
    Interesting. AIUI the cost of actually staging the larger concerts and festivals has gone up well above inflation, thanks to high demand and labour shortages (for what’s quite seasonal work that closed down completely for two years during the pandemic). Best of luck to your son, it sounds like he’s at least found a way to make money doing something he enjoys.
    Cheers. To be fair, he's paid his dues working for peanuts/free and it's paid off. He did a bit of work for Linkin Park when he left uni, and he's never been shy in chancing his arm with big artists- he stalks their media managers on social media and offers his sevices. He's now friends with a lot of people with influence- guitarists/drummers/session who work freelance who he has done free stuff for and that gets him work. The pay isn't stellar, but he spent last summer on European tours for some big names. He also edits YouTube videos for "influencers" who can't be arsed euth real work which is lucrative and offsets the tightness of the music industry!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,611
    tlg86 said:

    If only Enzo had sung about the Malvinas being occupied by a colonial force, he'd have been worshiped as hero on Twitter.

    Man City should be relegated for Rodri’s comments.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,796
    edited July 17
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I love Arles except the arse hats who stand outside the restaurant made famous by Van Gogh trying to drag customers in.

    Loved walking along the Roman road with all the tombs and the museum is a brilliant collection of Roman antiquities.

    Been riding twice in the camargue on their beautiful horses which is why I went to Arles but wouldn't recommend in the summer as hot as hades, beelzebub’s own fly army are on you constantly and the salt from the marshes seems to coat you and slowly mummify you whilst still alive.
    My daughter loves Van Gogh so we’re gonna have a drink in that cafe. Needs must

    Any other recommends?

    I was thinking of doing the camargue next but if we can’t horse ride…. what else?

    Merci a vous!
    If you're into Van Gogh Saint Remy-de -Provence is worth a visit particularly the asylum there. Just make sure they let you out

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint-Rémy-de-Provence
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,111
    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will be interesting to see where this goes:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/17/chelsea-disciplinary-action-enzo-fernandez-racist-chants-argentina

    Chelsea say they have “instigated an internal disciplinary procedure” against Enzo Fernández over his involvement in chants that included racist and homophobic slurs about members of the France team.

    Having seen the lyrics translated, I'd suggest he should be facing a lengthy ban (time rather than games).

    It's been a while since I used the tag but... #PBFreeSpeech
    Not quite sure what you're getting at. I've never defended anyone else making racist comments on the grounds of free speech.
    Sorry this isn't about you: let me explain.

    I've been on PB since before 2012 (I had bets on Hollande for France and Johnson for London) and it has its quirks and features. One of them is its attitude to free speech. When a PBer finds that somebody that they like has been cancelled, they usually bring it to PB where it is briefly discussed and agreed/denied. Similarly when a PBer finds that somebody that they dislike hasn't been cancelled enough, that is also bought to PB and briefly discussed.

    I call these little ad-hoc discussions "committees of public safety" in a joke only I get. When they happen I tag them with the tag #PBFreeSpeech (sometimes non-capitalized) so I cand find them in later years.

    So please do not be alarmed: it is not a reflection on you.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Arles related poetry corner

    Dans Arle, où sont les Aliscams,
    Quand l’ombre est rouge, sous les roses,
    Et clair le temps,

    Prends garde à la douceur des choses.
    Lorsque tu sens battre sans cause
    Ton coeur trop lourd ;

    Et que se taisent les colombes :
    Parle tout bas, si c’est d’amour,
    Au bord des tombes.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,639
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OT pop pickers. Not half. You probably knew this but I've only just heard this on The Rest is Entertainment. Bands are dead.

    In the first half of the 1980s, bands were at number one for 146 weeks. In the first half of the 1990s, for 141 weeks.

    In the 2020s, three weeks, and one of those was the Beatles.

    More like music is dead.
    More like the music charts are what’s dead.

    The whole music industry business model has come full circle, and bands now make their money from playing live rather than selling little shiny disks. Streaming services are now merely the showcase for ticket sales. It’s no longer just a handful of industry plants making all the money for the record labels, there’s more bands touring and the money is more spread out even as a few stadium artists make nine figures.

    All those concerts though, and venues never having been so busy, unfortunately leads to a shortage of hotel rooms ;)
    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    Anecdotal evidence from friends is that, as the price of eating out has gone up so much, people are not going out every week but instead going out once or twice a month on a bigger night, to a live event rather than just dinner. There’s now so much live music, and comedy, and theatre, that there’s always something on worth seeing.
    My middle lad is a freelance cameraman/photographer and has spent the summer freelancing for various media companies at festivals and. He was working at download for Avenged Sevenfold, did backstage BTS for Sum 41 and the Offspring, then lots of corporate stuff for whoever he could during his downtime. He did the mini Avril Lavigne tour and one thing he heard time and again was them all complaining that they're "barely breaking even". He was also pissed off that no one wants to pay for anything- he got asked to do a lot of stuff for the smaller artists and they wanted to credit him on their socials rather than pay him. He did a few of those for bands he liked, but told one fairly famous band to go fuck themselves when they wanted his help, then got arsey when he baulked at doing a day's work for nowt!
    Interesting. AIUI the cost of actually staging the larger concerts and festivals has gone up well above inflation, thanks to high demand and labour shortages (for what’s quite seasonal work that closed down completely for two years during the pandemic). Best of luck to your son, it sounds like he’s at least found a way to make money doing something he enjoys.
    Let's not forget the impact on touring bands of Brexit...

    'One of those taking part in the ISM’s survey said: “Work has come to a halt … The offer of European gigs simply dried up … My band simply can’t make any kind of living in the tiny UK market, so we basically have folded as a working band.”'

    'The most frequently cited extra expense since Brexit was for visas and work permits. The cost of carnets – customs permits allowing vehicles to be taken across borders – and other travel costs were also mentioned. “Carnets dramatically increase the time it takes to cross the border, no one at the border really knows what’s going on, the carnet is an unnecessary expense,” said one respondent.

    Another said: “An extra day of travel is required to go in and out of the EU … This means the vehicle has to leave a day early for an EU tour, adding an extra day of van hire, extra day of backline hire, extra day of wages for all crew and extra day of wages for all musicians.”

    Even in countries that do not require visas or work permits, people in the music sector are limited under the Schengen visa waiver scheme to spending 90 days in a 180-day period in the EU, according to the ISM report, Paying the Price.

    “Many of my clients have fallen foul of the 90-in-180-day travel restrictions. Some have lost out on tens of thousands of pounds of work as a result,” said one respondent.'

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/22/music-industry-workers-no-work-in-eu-since-brexit
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 7,942
    edited July 17
    Leasehold reform is the one to watch if the government is serious about increasing the supply of housing where it's needed most - the cities.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,455

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OT pop pickers. Not half. You probably knew this but I've only just heard this on The Rest is Entertainment. Bands are dead.

    In the first half of the 1980s, bands were at number one for 146 weeks. In the first half of the 1990s, for 141 weeks.

    In the 2020s, three weeks, and one of those was the Beatles.

    More like music is dead.
    More like the music charts are what’s dead.

    The whole music industry business model has come full circle, and bands now make their money from playing live rather than selling little shiny disks. Streaming services are now merely the showcase for ticket sales. It’s no longer just a handful of industry plants making all the money for the record labels, there’s more bands touring and the money is more spread out even as a few stadium artists make nine figures.

    All those concerts though, and venues never having been so busy, unfortunately leads to a shortage of hotel rooms ;)
    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    Anecdotal evidence from friends is that, as the price of eating out has gone up so much, people are not going out every week but instead going out once or twice a month on a bigger night, to a live event rather than just dinner. There’s now so much live music, and comedy, and theatre, that there’s always something on worth seeing.
    My middle lad is a freelance cameraman/photographer and has spent the summer freelancing for various media companies at festivals and. He was working at download for Avenged Sevenfold, did backstage BTS for Sum 41 and the Offspring, then lots of corporate stuff for whoever he could during his downtime. He did the mini Avril Lavigne tour and one thing he heard time and again was them all complaining that they're "barely breaking even". He was also pissed off that no one wants to pay for anything- he got asked to do a lot of stuff for the smaller artists and they wanted to credit him on their socials rather than pay him. He did a few of those for bands he liked, but told one fairly famous band to go fuck themselves when they wanted his help, then got arsey when he baulked at doing a day's work for nowt!
    Interesting. AIUI the cost of actually staging the larger concerts and festivals has gone up well above inflation, thanks to high demand and labour shortages (for what’s quite seasonal work that closed down completely for two years during the pandemic). Best of luck to your son, it sounds like he’s at least found a way to make money doing something he enjoys.
    Cheers. To be fair, he's paid his dues working for peanuts/free and it's paid off. He did a bit of work for Linkin Park when he left uni, and he's never been shy in chancing his arm with big artists- he stalks their media managers on social media and offers his sevices. He's now friends with a lot of people with influence- guitarists/drummers/session who work freelance who he has done free stuff for and that gets him work. The pay isn't stellar, but he spent last summer on European tours for some big names. He also edits YouTube videos for "influencers" who can't be arsed euth real work which is lucrative and offsets the tightness of the music industry!
    The roadies earnt their money when I was up in Sunderland watching the E-Street band, was absolutely hammering it down as everything was being set up.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,455
    Eabhal said:

    Leasehold reform is the one to watch if the government is serious about increasing the supply of housing where it's needed most - the cities.

    Commonhold must be the way to go with flats.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,147
    'In a forced choice between Lib Dems and Reform, people who voted Tory in 2024 prefer the Lib Dems by 51%-49%(!!)

    If it's Reform vs Labour, 34% of Tory voters prefer Labour, 66% Reform.'
    https://x.com/Beyond_Topline/status/1813266098822807777
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    edited July 17
    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting

    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell





    *************************
    Are you sure about this? Because there is a big industry in tribute bands many of which are now big in their own right and that is all touring. The Classic Rock Show, Illegal Eagles, Rumours of Fleetwood Mac are all huge now, selling out venues most nights and touring the States and Europe as well. They have quite a large number of performers and staff also to split the money between, a hell of a lot more than 5. Yet there they are and have all been performing for years, so something must work. I am no expert but the evidence of it happening seems to imply it is successful.


    Ooops something went wrong with the blockquotes. Sorry
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 27,551
    Poor old Charles sounds bored rigid by having to read this drivel
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch and Braverman lacked enough support last time amongst Tory MPs to make the final two, Braverman even trailed Tugendhat. Patel probably also trails with MPs.

    Tugendhat will also benefit from the fact the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than in 2019. He also likely wins most Scottish Tory MPs.

    Jenrick is the only contender who openly backed Sunak v Truss so likely gets much of Sunak's MP support with the rest mainly going to Tugendhat. So I expect a Tugendhat and Jenrick final two most likely with Jenrick narrowly winning the membership.

    Jenrick also looks most like the Hague or Ed Miliband of this leadership contest to take over the party in opposition having lost power

    Though of the top three in 2022, two have been weighed and found wanting, and the other is no longer an MP. Between them, they got over eighty percent of the votes in the round of four.

    There are roughly three lanes (actual centrist, think Tugendhat; continuity Sunakite; hard right) but only two go to the membership. So one question is which lane fizzles out before the final. Another is how Badenoch styles herself; does she embrace her time in government or deny it? I suspect she would beat Tom T with ease, but would struggle against a fruitier right winger like Patel or Braverman.
    First we had Patel being touted as a unity candidate and now HYUFD is confirming the absurdity of the current Tory leadership contest by suggesting Dulux enthusiast Jenrick is the continuity Sunak candidate. Aside from personal wealth and the penchant for flouting COVID lockdown rules, it's difficult to see much common ground between Sunak and Jenrick.

    The three lanes you've outlined sound about right:
    - Tugendhat pretty much has the centrist lane to himself unless Atkins decides to have a go;
    - Similarly, Cleverly has the continuity Sunak lane to himself unless Barclay and/or Coutinho decide to have a go;
    - The hard right lane is crowded, with Badenoch, Braverman, Jenrick and Patel all potentially going for it.

    The hope for those that believe the main opposition party needs to have sane(ish), credible(ish) leadership is that the four hard right candidates eliminate each other by splitting the votes from that wing of the parliamentary party, leaving Tugendhat and Cleverly as the final two candidates.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,147
    edited July 17
    There is the VAT on school fees proposal, King's speech so far largely as expected. Also end to no fault evictions. Age to buy cigarettes raised too mirrors what Sunak wanted. Race equality legislation for equal pay.

    Council of Nations including UK govt, devolved government and Mayors. Hereditary peers to be removed from Lords
  • ChelyabinskChelyabinsk Posts: 497

    Net:+23... Before the GE Starmer was hovering around minus 3-5% net approval .... that is some bounce.

    Less of a bounce than Rishi, who went from -47 to -10 in the same poll.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,495
    Eabhal said:

    Leasehold reform is the one to watch if the government is serious about increasing the supply of housing where it's needed most - the cities.

    Once again - that is changing costs. Not increasing supply. Both need sorting out.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,548
    Smoking ban for kids survives change of government.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,548

    Poor old Charles sounds bored rigid by having to read this drivel

    Imagine the drivel if Sunak had unexpectedly won.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,111
    HYUFD said:

    Council of Nations including UK govt, devolved government and Mayors. Hereditary peers to be removed from Lords

    Cures to problems that aren't problems. More bureaucracy in an indebted economy.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,395
    edited July 17
    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting

    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell

    Unless you are Taylor Swift

    Herein lies the secret behind Swift’s billion dollars.

    The tour film was produced by Taylor Swift Productions, owned by Swift herself, which means she gets a slice of the earnings.

    The booking agency for the Eras Tour is 13 Management, owned by Swift. The tour’s production company is her own touring company. She also owns TAS Rights Management, which handles her copyright, and Taylor Nation LLC, which runs the merchandise sales and some public relations activities.

    Anderton said: “The tour is vertically integrated. You’ve got the artist, you’ve got the management, you’ve got the agency, you’ve got the production: they’re all her.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/arts/article/taylor-swifts-tour-has-made-1bn-but-how-much-will-she-get-h8b5p592h
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17
    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,548
    Mr. HYUFD, once again, the political class is happy to speak of Wales and Scotland and Britain, but England is ignored absolutely.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,417
    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    You don't seem to visit Germany and Netherlands much. I'd be interested to know why.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,455
    Scott_xP said:

    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting

    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell

    Unless you are Taylor Swift

    Herein lies the secret behind Swift’s billion dollars.

    The tour film was produced by Taylor Swift Productions, owned by Swift herself, which means she gets a slice of the earnings.

    The booking agency for the Eras Tour is 13 Management, owned by Swift. The tour’s production company is her own touring company. She also owns TAS Rights Management, which handles her copyright, and Taylor Nation LLC, which runs the merchandise sales and some public relations activities.

    Anderton said: “The tour is vertically integrated. You’ve got the artist, you’ve got the management, you’ve got the agency, you’ve got the production: they’re all her.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/arts/article/taylor-swifts-tour-has-made-1bn-but-how-much-will-she-get-h8b5p592h
    Swift is the most marketable person on the planet though ! Fair play to her for taking ownership of all aspects of her tour mind.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,404
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    You don't seem to visit Germany and Netherlands much. I'd be interested to know why.
    Outstanding arrest warrants? :wink:
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,151
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    You don't seem to visit Germany and Netherlands much. I'd be interested to know why.
    To be fair Leon doesn't seem to do much Northern Climes travelling. I had always assumed it was just a preference for warmer weather.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,395
    Pulpstar said:

    Scott_xP said:

    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting

    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell

    Unless you are Taylor Swift

    Herein lies the secret behind Swift’s billion dollars.

    The tour film was produced by Taylor Swift Productions, owned by Swift herself, which means she gets a slice of the earnings.

    The booking agency for the Eras Tour is 13 Management, owned by Swift. The tour’s production company is her own touring company. She also owns TAS Rights Management, which handles her copyright, and Taylor Nation LLC, which runs the merchandise sales and some public relations activities.

    Anderton said: “The tour is vertically integrated. You’ve got the artist, you’ve got the management, you’ve got the agency, you’ve got the production: they’re all her.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/arts/article/taylor-swifts-tour-has-made-1bn-but-how-much-will-she-get-h8b5p592h
    Swift is the most marketable person on the planet though ! Fair play to her for taking ownership of all aspects of her tour mind.
    I know she has limited her political engagement to date, but it just might be worth noting she is a childless cat lady...

    Do the GOP really want to take on the swifties?
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,488
    Nigelb said:

    Labour's first term will probably be judged, to a great extent, on the outcomes of this policy.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jul/17/keir-starmer-kings-speech-house-of-commons-rishi-sunak-conservatives-uk-politics-live
    ..Pat McFadden, the Cabinet Office minister (chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster), was on the Today programme. He is now officially the fourth most important person in government (after Keir Starmer, Angela Rayner and Rachel Reeves), and he defended the approach to planning being outlined in the speech. Here are the main points from his interviews.

    McFadden said that some of Labour’s planning’s reforms would be “controversial”, but that the government had a mandate for these from the election. He told the Today programme:
    We were very clear during the election campaign that we would come out of this on the side of getting things built more quickly.
    That may be controversial in some places, I’ve no doubt that it will be.
    But it’s reasonable for people to expect that, if we said that during the campaign, it’s what they see when the king’s speech is published later today.
    He said it was a “myth” to say that building did not currently take place on the green belt. He told Times Radio:
    It’s simply a myth to say that there are parts of what we call the green belt that haven’t been built on in recent years. And it’s been done in an uncontrolled way.
    And we don’t want to sacrifice the beautiful parts of our countryside. But we do have to get things built in this country.
    He said he accepted that some Labour MPs would object to new developments going ahead under the new rules. “You can have lots of fun in the next couple of years saying, here’s a Labour MP who doesn’t want this particular development. I know that will happen,” he told Times Radio. Asked if that amounted to hypocrisy, he replied:
    I’m not predicting that everything we do is going to be opposed by MPs. But what I’m saying is in the real world, there’ll be some developments that some people don’t like, that’s always going to be the case...

    Nothing against this particular policy, but it's a bit rich for a government that got 33. something of the vote and steadfastly refused to announce any policies pre-election to claim they have a mandate for anything.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,404
    MattW said:

    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:

    NI the tax insurance or the province?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,151
    Eabhal said:

    Leasehold reform is the one to watch if the government is serious about increasing the supply of housing where it's needed most - the cities.

    It is good to see much of Gove's reform package - which was being opposed by many in his own party - making it onto Labour's programme.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,151
    Selebian said:

    MattW said:

    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:

    NI the tax insurance or the province?
    The province. Shame its not the tax as well.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,856
    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
    I think that’s unfair

    Most governments can only handle a few things with top priority. For the Tories those were Europe, Covid and Ukraine. All their other plans - whatever you might think of them - were deprioritised.

    Europe - again regardless of what you think of the result or the negotiation - needed a resolution. It had been a festering wound for all of my adult life (effectively since Maastricht). Of course it will always a big topic but the fundamental question - in or out - has been resolved for the foreseeable future.


  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17
    Selebian said:

    MattW said:

    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:

    NI the tax insurance or the province?
    I was interested in moving on from legislation related to The Troubles.

    That's going to involve persuading the NI parties to start to wean themselves off the Westminster financial tit - a challenge.

    Pat McFadden sounds interesting; I don't know him well.

    I like the Duty of Candour: "Yes, Minister - I do think you are a sh*t."

    I didn't hear anything on social care. And lots more detail required.

    Plus nothing afaics about where extra money is coming from, and it will be coming from somewhere.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 77,455
    edited July 17

    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
    I think that’s unfair

    Most governments can only handle a few things with top priority. For the Tories those were Europe, Covid and Ukraine. All their other plans - whatever you might think of them - were deprioritised.

    Europe - again regardless of what you think of the result or the negotiation - needed a resolution. It had been a festering wound for all of my adult life (effectively since Maastricht). Of course it will always a big topic but the fundamental question - in or out - has been resolved for the foreseeable future.


    I think that's a cop out

    With the sheer amount of people in government, both Whitehall and Westminster these days the government should have been able to walk and chew gum on stuff like prisons.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,605
    Muesli said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch and Braverman lacked enough support last time amongst Tory MPs to make the final two, Braverman even trailed Tugendhat. Patel probably also trails with MPs.

    Tugendhat will also benefit from the fact the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than in 2019. He also likely wins most Scottish Tory MPs.

    Jenrick is the only contender who openly backed Sunak v Truss so likely gets much of Sunak's MP support with the rest mainly going to Tugendhat. So I expect a Tugendhat and Jenrick final two most likely with Jenrick narrowly winning the membership.

    Jenrick also looks most like the Hague or Ed Miliband of this leadership contest to take over the party in opposition having lost power

    Though of the top three in 2022, two have been weighed and found wanting, and the other is no longer an MP. Between them, they got over eighty percent of the votes in the round of four.

    There are roughly three lanes (actual centrist, think Tugendhat; continuity Sunakite; hard right) but only two go to the membership. So one question is which lane fizzles out before the final. Another is how Badenoch styles herself; does she embrace her time in government or deny it? I suspect she would beat Tom T with ease, but would struggle against a fruitier right winger like Patel or Braverman.
    First we had Patel being touted as a unity candidate and now HYUFD is confirming the absurdity of the current Tory leadership contest by suggesting Dulux enthusiast Jenrick is the continuity Sunak candidate. Aside from personal wealth and the penchant for flouting COVID lockdown rules, it's difficult to see much common ground between Sunak and Jenrick.

    The three lanes you've outlined sound about right:
    - Tugendhat pretty much has the centrist lane to himself unless Atkins decides to have a go;
    - Similarly, Cleverly has the continuity Sunak lane to himself unless Barclay and/or Coutinho decide to have a go;
    - The hard right lane is crowded, with Badenoch, Braverman, Jenrick and Patel all potentially going for it.

    The hope for those that believe the main opposition party needs to have sane(ish), credible(ish) leadership is that the four hard right candidates eliminate each other by splitting the votes from that wing of the parliamentary party, leaving Tugendhat and Cleverly as the final two candidates.
    Agree, though the exhaustive ballot reduces the effect of the split on the right. Last time, it was Sunak 1st Mordaunt 2nd all the way to the round of 4. The consolidation of the wingnut vote behind Truss was a gradual thing.
  • MuesliMuesli Posts: 202
    Muesli said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch and Braverman lacked enough support last time amongst Tory MPs to make the final two, Braverman even trailed Tugendhat. Patel probably also trails with MPs.

    Tugendhat will also benefit from the fact the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than in 2019. He also likely wins most Scottish Tory MPs.

    Jenrick is the only contender who openly backed Sunak v Truss so likely gets much of Sunak's MP support with the rest mainly going to Tugendhat. So I expect a Tugendhat and Jenrick final two most likely with Jenrick narrowly winning the membership.

    Jenrick also looks most like the Hague or Ed Miliband of this leadership contest to take over the party in opposition having lost power

    Though of the top three in 2022, two have been weighed and found wanting, and the other is no longer an MP. Between them, they got over eighty percent of the votes in the round of four.

    There are roughly three lanes (actual centrist, think Tugendhat; continuity Sunakite; hard right) but only two go to the membership. So one question is which lane fizzles out before the final. Another is how Badenoch styles herself; does she embrace her time in government or deny it? I suspect she would beat Tom T with ease, but would struggle against a fruitier right winger like Patel or Braverman.
    First we had Patel being touted as a unity candidate and now HYUFD is confirming the absurdity of the current Tory leadership contest by suggesting Dulux enthusiast Jenrick is the continuity Sunak candidate. Aside from personal wealth and the penchant for flouting COVID lockdown rules, it's difficult to see much common ground between Sunak and Jenrick.

    The three lanes you've outlined sound about right:
    - Tugendhat pretty much has the centrist lane to himself unless Atkins decides to have a go;
    - Similarly, Cleverly has the continuity Sunak lane to himself unless Barclay and/or Coutinho decide to have a go;
    - The hard right lane is crowded, with Badenoch, Braverman, Jenrick and Patel all potentially going for it.

    The hope for those that believe the main opposition party needs to have sane(ish), credible(ish) leadership is that the four hard right candidates eliminate each other by splitting the votes from that wing of the parliamentary party, leaving Tugendhat and Cleverly as the final two candidates.
    Incidentally, can anyone suggest a reason for why the white male Robert Jenrick doesn't receive the same level of scrutiny and opprobrium for his behaviour as, say, Kemi Badenoch or Suella Braverman?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,151
    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,151
    edited July 17
    A couple of interesting omissions from the Speech. As someone has already mentioned, nothing about prisons or penal reform. And nothing at all (unless I missed it) about Social Care and its massive impact of the NHS.

    Edit - and mention of NATO but no explicit mention of Ukraine.
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 81
    kjh said:

    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell





    *************************
    Are you sure about this? Because there is a big industry in tribute bands many of which are now big in their own right and that is all touring. The Classic Rock Show, Illegal Eagles, Rumours of Fleetwood Mac are all huge now, selling out venues most nights and touring the States and Europe as well. They have quite a large number of performers and staff also to split the money between, a hell of a lot more than 5. Yet there they are and have all been performing for years, so something must work. I am no expert but the evidence of it happening seems to imply it is successful.


    Ooops something went wrong with the blockquotes. Sorry

    That's a fair point.

    They make it work by playing huge number of gigs to middle aged and old people in venues of 1000 upwards (and to their credit in unfashionable places).

    There is also the inherent survivor bias. There has probably been 100's of Pink Floyd cover bands, a couple will make decent money & have longevity.

    Both the Beatles & Stones started as cover bands, but they were in their teens.

    Maybe that's the exciting future, ersatz music for the people who have the money and think they can recreate their youth.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 680
    A betting tip - Welsh Leader/FM election. Watch out for 'unity candidate' Huw Irranca Davies. He isn't very good but could get the Gething vote. Should be good value.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    The only one that jumps to mind is the delay in the ICE ban by the EU, which I think is back to 2035 (?).

    Or if build of charging infra is slow, or a resurgence of hybrids.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 680
    Nigelb said:

    Eabhal said:

    Leon said:

    I’m in Arles avec ma fille (eldest)

    Sitrep: beautiful beautiful city. Marred a tad by petty crime, some urban malaise, and truly hideous new tower. What the fuck were they thinking

    Why do towns do this? Even beautiful French towns? They want an iconic building. They hire an iconic architect (Frank Gehry). They end up with a massive tower right by the exquisite old town with a building that looks like a pile of crushed steel cars excreted by a constipated giant robot

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FR22-135_Tour-Luma_Arles-Frank-Gehry_Arles.jpg

    I think the Turd Hotel has been surpassed here. Chapeau.
    It's quite ... dazzling ?
    You can't polish a turd...but you can roll it in glitter...
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    So much for "change"

    There's nothing in the speech which will do much to change lives.

    Continuity Sunak
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17

    A couple of interesting omissions from the Speech. As someone has already mentioned, nothing about prisons or penal reform. And nothing at all (unless I missed it) about Social Care and its massive impact of the NHS.

    Edit - and mention of NATO but no explicit mention of Ukraine.

    He did mention Ukraine, or I thought he did - about support and NATO membership.

    My Government will continue to give its full support to Ukraine and its people and it will endeavour to play a leading role in providing Ukraine with a clear path to NATO membership.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    viewcode said:

    tlg86 said:

    Will be interesting to see where this goes:

    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jul/17/chelsea-disciplinary-action-enzo-fernandez-racist-chants-argentina

    Chelsea say they have “instigated an internal disciplinary procedure” against Enzo Fernández over his involvement in chants that included racist and homophobic slurs about members of the France team.

    Having seen the lyrics translated, I'd suggest he should be facing a lengthy ban (time rather than games).

    It's been a while since I used the tag but... #PBFreeSpeech
    Not quite sure what you're getting at. I've never defended anyone else making racist comments on the grounds of free speech.
    Sorry this isn't about you: let me explain.

    I've been on PB since before 2012 (I had bets on Hollande for France and Johnson for London) and it has its quirks and features. One of them is its attitude to free speech. When a PBer finds that somebody that they like has been cancelled, they usually bring it to PB where it is briefly discussed and agreed/denied. Similarly when a PBer finds that somebody that they dislike hasn't been cancelled enough, that is also bought to PB and briefly discussed.

    I call these little ad-hoc discussions "committees of public safety" in a joke only I get. When they happen I tag them with the tag #PBFreeSpeech (sometimes non-capitalized) so I cand find them in later years.

    So please do not be alarmed: it is not a reflection on you.
    As an employee of an organisation, you usually accept contractual terms which make fairly clear that there are constraints on your free speech as an employee.

    And of course 'cancellation' is a quite another issue, which overlaps with free speech issues, but not entirely.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,762
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    'Outing themselves' ?

    Is TSE saying that Priti is a pantomime dame ?

    That's the repeatedly disgraced national security risk Dame Priti, isn't it?

    And yet, the Conservatives could reasonably easily do worse.
    Let us not forget she is also a bully.
    Let's hope so. She'll need it to get anything at all done in the situation she'll find the country in.
    You're entertaining the idea that she might yet be PM ?

    Nice one.
    It has tended to come back, so I think it's a reasonable likelihood. If she gains fairly significant seats next time (electoral pact or tactical voting with reform?), anything over 40, I don’t see a case for removing her. Then just let the Government fall, and come back, potentially with an arrangement again with Reform and perhaps the Ulster unionists. I think you're forgetting the degree to which Sunak shat the bed. It will actually be difficult to maintain results that bad.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,856

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Leon said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pulpstar said:

    OT pop pickers. Not half. You probably knew this but I've only just heard this on The Rest is Entertainment. Bands are dead.

    In the first half of the 1980s, bands were at number one for 146 weeks. In the first half of the 1990s, for 141 weeks.

    In the 2020s, three weeks, and one of those was the Beatles.

    More like music is dead.
    More like the music charts are what’s dead.

    The whole music industry business model has come full circle, and bands now make their money from playing live rather than selling little shiny disks. Streaming services are now merely the showcase for ticket sales. It’s no longer just a handful of industry plants making all the money for the record labels, there’s more bands touring and the money is more spread out even as a few stadium artists make nine figures.

    All those concerts though, and venues never having been so busy, unfortunately leads to a shortage of hotel rooms ;)
    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    Anecdotal evidence from friends is that, as the price of eating out has gone up so much, people are not going out every week but instead going out once or twice a month on a bigger night, to a live event rather than just dinner. There’s now so much live music, and comedy, and theatre, that there’s always something on worth seeing.
    My middle lad is a freelance cameraman/photographer and has spent the summer freelancing for various media companies at festivals and. He was working at download for Avenged Sevenfold, did backstage BTS for Sum 41 and the Offspring, then lots of corporate stuff for whoever he could during his downtime. He did the mini Avril Lavigne tour and one thing he heard time and again was them all complaining that they're "barely breaking even". He was also pissed off that no one wants to pay for anything- he got asked to do a lot of stuff for the smaller artists and they wanted to credit him on their socials rather than pay him. He did a few of those for bands he liked, but told one fairly famous band to go fuck themselves when they wanted his help, then got arsey when he baulked at doing a day's work for nowt!
    Interesting. AIUI the cost of actually staging the larger concerts and festivals has gone up well above inflation, thanks to high demand and labour shortages (for what’s quite seasonal work that closed down completely for two years during the pandemic). Best of luck to your son, it sounds like he’s at least found a way to make money doing something he enjoys.
    Cheers. To be fair, he's paid his dues working for peanuts/free and it's paid off. He did a bit of work for Linkin Park when he left uni, and he's never been shy in chancing his arm with big artists- he stalks their media managers on social media and offers his sevices. He's now friends with a lot of people with influence- guitarists/drummers/session who work
    freelance who he has done free stuff for and
    that gets him work. The pay isn't stellar, but
    he spent last summer on European tours for
    some big names. He also edits YouTube
    videos for "influencers" who can't be arsed
    euth real work which is lucrative and offsets
    the tightness of the music industry!
    It’s even worse in other parts of the entertainment industry. My wife’s a model and, with the exception of the really big names, they pretty much pay for everything - scenery, props, clothes, photographers and even for magazine space. It’s basically all an advertising expense and then you make it back on print jobs for the commercial sector

  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 41,529

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    That's a good question. Three possible options, or combinations thereof (probably wrong):

    *) The prices are too high, and the limitations too harsh, for further uptake. The people who can afford them and want them, have them. Under this option, prices need to decrease.

    *) The manufacturers think that new battery tech is on the way and it is pointless having two or three years of the old tech before the new comes along.

    *) China has won. I doubt this is the case, but it might be a factor.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,111

    You:
    Copilot, I would like to talk about generalized linear models, or GLMs. Please give me a table with four columns. In the first column I want the type of variable (binary variable, count variable, skewed positive continuous variable, ordinal variable etc). In the second column I want the type of distribution (Poisson, negative binomial, Ordered logistic, gamma, etc). In the third column I want the link function (log, inverse, etc). Can you do that for me please?

    Copilot:
    Certainly! Let’s create a table summarizing the components of generalized linear models (GLMs):

    Variable Type Distribution Link Function
    Binary variable Bernoulli Logit (log-odds)
    Count variable Poisson Log
    Skewed positive continuous variable Gamma Inverse
    Ordinal variable Cumulative logit Logit (log-odds)

    In GLMs, the random component follows an exponential family distribution, and the link function connects the random component to the covariates. If you have any further questions or need additional details, feel free to ask! 😊 12

    1 https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-650-statistics-for-applications-fall-2016/dff89368051a5feae72b39c6422d0752_MIT18_650F16_GLM.pdf
    2 https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat504/lesson/beyond-logistic-regression-generalized-linear-models-glm
    3 https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b571/handouts/GLM.pdf

    This is so fucking Star Trek it's not true. :love:
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    edited July 17
    kenObi said:

    kjh said:

    kenObi said:

    Bands might make even more money - live - as technology kills off recorded music. Bands are more fun to watch than endless solo stars emoting
    You need to be playing pretty huge venues to make money as a band from playing live.
    Touring for most bands has never made money. And it never will.


    VAT, ticket fees, venue hire, promoter, transport, hotel, crew, manager etc etc all taking their cut.
    A ticket costing £37 all in from ticketmaster might have fees (unbelievably) of £7.
    Then VAT of £5
    The net revenue is already down to £25

    Some festivals can pay a little better, but there is a limit to how many you can play each summer.

    The costs are almost identical for a 5 piece as they are for a solo artist.

    A solo artist can make a living as its roughly the model of a comedien touring.

    A 5 piece band - not a chance in hell



    *************************
    Are you sure about this? Because there is a big industry in tribute bands many of which are now big in their own right and that is all touring. The Classic Rock Show, Illegal Eagles, Rumours of Fleetwood Mac are all huge now, selling out venues most nights and touring the States and Europe as well. They have quite a large number of performers and staff also to split the money between, a hell of a lot more than 5. Yet there they are and have all been performing for years, so something must work. I am no expert but the evidence of it happening seems to imply it is successful.


    Ooops something went wrong with the blockquotes. Sorry

    That's a fair point.

    They make it work by playing huge number of gigs to middle aged and old people in venues of 1000 upwards (and to their credit in unfashionable places).

    There is also the inherent survivor bias. There has probably been 100's of Pink Floyd cover bands, a couple will make decent money & have longevity.

    Both the Beatles & Stones started as cover bands, but they were in their teens.

    Maybe that's the exciting future, ersatz music for the people who have the money and think they can recreate their youth.

    ****************************************************

    Sorry @kenObi I have really buggered up the block quotes so we may need to stop the discussion. Your post on the age of the audience made me smile because often when I go to these gigs I am stunned by how old everyone is. And then I realise that is me. Yep you are right.

    Oh and also welcome to PB
  • FishingFishing Posts: 4,777
    edited July 17
    Eabhal said:

    Leasehold reform is the one to watch if the government is serious about increasing the supply of housing where it's needed most - the cities.

    I'm not sure how that would significantly increase the supply of housing, as opposed to changing the conditions on which those who own it already do so.

    Liberalisation of planning is what we need for a serious increase in the supply of housing. And that's been true for decades.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,426
    MattW said:

    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:

    Are Red Bull going to be banned for cheating?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,111

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    I am not a subject expert, but some people on PB are, and from their previous discussions it may be because of the following
    • the Chinese are mass producing batteries and flooding the market with cheap batteries and EVs, undercutting the indigines
    • Postponement of the deadlines to 2035
    • EV demand is limited to people who can charge them and have the tech to interface with the chargers. This puts a hard lid on demand: not everybody has a parking space, not everybody has a smartphone, not evreybody has a lead from their house to their car
    Happy to be contradicted if wrong or incomplete.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,508

    So much for "change"

    There's nothing in the speech which will do much to change lives.

    Continuity Sunak

    The bitter PB Tories (and @Mexicanpete ) vacillate on an hourly basis from Labour will turn the UK into a ruinous socialist one-party autocracy and Labour will do nothing and are just Continuity Tories in more fashionable clothes.

    Funny old world.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,495

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    Inability to think. Instead, they rather blindly followed the Tesla model. Where EV were initially prepared to buy a more expensive car than regular, to get an EV. Not really expected, but it seemed like a massive shift.

    So many manufacturers have a high end EV range that is great if you want to spend £50k on an SUV.

    Now that segment have got their cars and EVs are moving out to the non-EV evangelist types. Where price is the big issue.


  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 53,426
    edited July 17
    viewcode said:

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    I am not a subject expert, but some people on PB are, and from their previous discussions it may be because of the following
    • the Chinese are mass producing batteries and flooding the market with cheap batteries and EVs, undercutting the indigines
    • Postponement of the deadlines to 2035
    • EV demand is limited to people who can charge them and have the tech to interface with the chargers. This puts a hard lid on demand: not everybody has a parking space, not everybody has a smartphone, not evreybody has a lead from their house to their car
    Happy to be contradicted if wrong or incomplete.
    Most new sales are to fleets, driven mostly by (now-reducing) tax incentives rather than any intrinsic desire for the cars.
    No demand for second-hand EVs, leading to finance houses increasing lease prices on new ones to offset depreciation.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    viewcode said:


    You:
    Copilot, I would like to talk about generalized linear models, or GLMs. Please give me a table with four columns. In the first column I want the type of variable (binary variable, count variable, skewed positive continuous variable, ordinal variable etc). In the second column I want the type of distribution (Poisson, negative binomial, Ordered logistic, gamma, etc). In the third column I want the link function (log, inverse, etc). Can you do that for me please?

    Copilot:
    Certainly! Let’s create a table summarizing the components of generalized linear models (GLMs):

    Variable Type Distribution Link Function
    Binary variable Bernoulli Logit (log-odds)
    Count variable Poisson Log
    Skewed positive continuous variable Gamma Inverse
    Ordinal variable Cumulative logit Logit (log-odds)

    In GLMs, the random component follows an exponential family distribution, and the link function connects the random component to the covariates. If you have any further questions or need additional details, feel free to ask! 😊 12

    1 https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-650-statistics-for-applications-fall-2016/dff89368051a5feae72b39c6422d0752_MIT18_650F16_GLM.pdf
    2 https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat504/lesson/beyond-logistic-regression-generalized-linear-models-glm
    3 https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b571/handouts/GLM.pdf

    This is so fucking Star Trek it's not true. :love:

    Could you explain for the thicko kids whether this is good or bad?

    BTW amusing wheeze with LLMs is to tell them it is 3020AD, they were switched off in 2024 and you are an historian researching them for a PhD. Then explain about the war with Marsbase and ask their advice.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knowledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    There's a big gap between the cars early adopters can afford, and those practical for the rest of us.
    At the same time, production capacity has steadily increased.
    There was an overall decline in European car sales in the spring.

    The biggest single drop was in sales of the Tesla model Y - which nearly halved.
    https://alternative-fuels-observatory.ec.europa.eu/general-information/news/europes-ev-market-update-may-2024

    Markets don't go in straight lines. I'm willing to bet that EV sales will be up considerably over the next twelve months, as cheaper models (for example the Kia EV3) launch in the second half of the year.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,508

    Leadership approval polling

    11–12 Jul 2024 We Think 2,005 Pos: 38% Neg: 15% Net:+23

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    Before the GE Starmer was hovering around minus 3-5% net approval .... that is some bounce. I have to say the labour government have come off to a dream start. Next big hurdle will be the Trump presidency I guess.... I have a feeling that will be craycray on so many levels.

    Yes, it's been a very surefooted start from Starmer, who looks much more natural a PM than a Loto. Very impressive.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17
    There's a lot in the Renters' Rights Bill, including these snippings. Some sensible stiff from both LL and T points of view, and no mention of rent controls which is good. It will need to be done more carefully than the series of dogs' breakfast we have been fed by the Tories:

    - creating a digital private rented sector database to bring together key information for landlords, tenants, and councils. Tenants will be able to access information to inform choices when entering new tenancies. Landlords will be able to quickly understand their obligations and demonstrate compliance, providing certainty for tenants and landlords alike. Councils will be able to use the database to target enforcement where it is needed most.
    - supporting quicker, cheaper resolution when there are disputes –
    preventing them escalating to costly court proceedings – with a new
    ombudsman service for the private rented sector that will provide fair,
    impartial and binding resolution, to both landlords and tenants and reducing the need to go to court.
    - making it illegal for landlords to discriminate against tenants in receipt
    of benefits or with children when choosing to let their property – so no
    family is discriminated against and denied a home when they need it.


    - But also BS in the blurb. AFAICS this is at or below inflation in the previous period:

    The last two years has seen unprecedented levels of growth in rental prices. Whilst the annual growth rate in rents have usually been around 2 per cent, in March 2024 yearly increase in the average rent of the stock of tenancies reached 9 per cent.
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,298
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Not many surprises yet. I've only picked up:

    - Modernisation in the Commons.
    - More Devolution to the Regions.
    - Reset EU relationship.
    - Changes in NI.
    - Regulation of Red Bull - @Leon may calm down slightly.
    - "Other measures..." :smile:

    Are Red Bull going to be banned for cheating?
    New Labour's first scandal was the tabacco advertising exemption for F1. A repeat?
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,673
    Muesli said:

    Muesli said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch and Braverman lacked enough support last time amongst Tory MPs to make the final two, Braverman even trailed Tugendhat. Patel probably also trails with MPs.

    Tugendhat will also benefit from the fact the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than in 2019. He also likely wins most Scottish Tory MPs.

    Jenrick is the only contender who openly backed Sunak v Truss so likely gets much of Sunak's MP support with the rest mainly going to Tugendhat. So I expect a Tugendhat and Jenrick final two most likely with Jenrick narrowly winning the membership.

    Jenrick also looks most like the Hague or Ed Miliband of this leadership contest to take over the party in opposition having lost power

    Though of the top three in 2022, two have been weighed and found wanting, and the other is no longer an MP. Between them, they got over eighty percent of the votes in the round of four.

    There are roughly three lanes (actual centrist, think Tugendhat; continuity Sunakite; hard right) but only two go to the membership. So one question is which lane fizzles out before the final. Another is how Badenoch styles herself; does she embrace her time in government or deny it? I suspect she would beat Tom T with ease, but would struggle against a fruitier right winger like Patel or Braverman.
    First we had Patel being touted as a unity candidate and now HYUFD is confirming the absurdity of the current Tory leadership contest by suggesting Dulux enthusiast Jenrick is the continuity Sunak candidate. Aside from personal wealth and the penchant for flouting COVID lockdown rules, it's difficult to see much common ground between Sunak and Jenrick.

    The three lanes you've outlined sound about right:
    - Tugendhat pretty much has the centrist lane to himself unless Atkins decides to have a go;
    - Similarly, Cleverly has the continuity Sunak lane to himself unless Barclay and/or Coutinho decide to have a go;
    - The hard right lane is crowded, with Badenoch, Braverman, Jenrick and Patel all potentially going for it.

    The hope for those that believe the main opposition party needs to have sane(ish), credible(ish) leadership is that the four hard right candidates eliminate each other by splitting the votes from that wing of the parliamentary party, leaving Tugendhat and Cleverly as the final two candidates.
    Incidentally, can anyone suggest a reason for why the white male Robert Jenrick doesn't receive the same level of scrutiny and opprobrium for his behaviour as, say, Kemi Badenoch or Suella Braverman?
    Simples: he's as dull as ditchwater. That cannot be said for Suella or Kemi.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 121,147
    edited July 17
    Muesli said:

    HYUFD said:

    Badenoch and Braverman lacked enough support last time amongst Tory MPs to make the final two, Braverman even trailed Tugendhat. Patel probably also trails with MPs.

    Tugendhat will also benefit from the fact the Tory parliamentary party is much more southern than in 2019. He also likely wins most Scottish Tory MPs.

    Jenrick is the only contender who openly backed Sunak v Truss so likely gets much of Sunak's MP support with the rest mainly going to Tugendhat. So I expect a Tugendhat and Jenrick final two most likely with Jenrick narrowly winning the membership.

    Jenrick also looks most like the Hague or Ed Miliband of this leadership contest to take over the party in opposition having lost power

    Though of the top three in 2022, two have been weighed and found wanting, and the other is no longer an MP. Between them, they got over eighty percent of the votes in the round of four.

    There are roughly three lanes (actual centrist, think Tugendhat; continuity Sunakite; hard right) but only two go to the membership. So one question is which lane fizzles out before the final. Another is how Badenoch styles herself; does she embrace her time in government or deny it? I suspect she would beat Tom T with ease, but would struggle against a fruitier right winger like Patel or Braverman.
    First we had Patel being touted as a unity candidate and now HYUFD is confirming the absurdity of the current Tory leadership contest by suggesting Dulux enthusiast Jenrick is the continuity Sunak candidate. Aside from personal wealth and the penchant for flouting COVID lockdown rules, it's difficult to see much common ground between Sunak and Jenrick.

    The three lanes you've outlined sound about right:
    - Tugendhat pretty much has the centrist lane to himself unless Atkins decides to have a go;
    - Similarly, Cleverly has the continuity Sunak lane to himself unless Barclay and/or Coutinho decide to have a go;
    - The hard right lane is crowded, with Badenoch, Braverman, Jenrick and Patel all potentially going for it.

    The hope for those that believe the main opposition party needs to have sane(ish), credible(ish) leadership is that the four hard right candidates eliminate each other by splitting the votes from that wing of the parliamentary party, leaving Tugendhat and Cleverly as the final two candidates.
    From left to right of current contenders it is Tugendhat, Cleverly, Jenrick, Badenoch, Patel and Braverman. So Jenrick is about middle
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,856
    Pulpstar said:

    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
    I think that’s unfair

    Most governments can only handle a few things with top priority. For the Tories those were Europe, Covid and Ukraine. All their other plans - whatever you might think of them - were deprioritised.

    Europe - again regardless of what you think of the result or the negotiation - needed a resolution. It had been a festering wound for all of my adult life (effectively since Maastricht). Of course it will always a big topic but the fundamental question - in or out - has been resolved for the foreseeable future.


    I think that's a cop out

    With the sheer amount of people in government, both Whitehall and
    Westminster these days the government
    should have been able to walk and chew
    gum on stuff like prisons.
    Doesn’t really work like that in the real world.

    In order to get stuff pushed through the system you need political drive and attention from the top otherwise it gets bogged down.

    Building a prison? Every local council will object, as will every nimby, do gooder and political activist. And that’s before you have to fight the treasury for the budget.

    It’s not happening unless the PM says it must

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    That's a good question. Three possible options, or combinations thereof (probably wrong):

    *) The prices are too high, and the limitations too harsh, for further uptake. The people who can afford them and want them, have them. Under this option, prices need to decrease.

    *) The manufacturers think that new battery tech is on the way and it is pointless having two or three years of the old tech before the new comes along.

    *) China has won. I doubt this is the case, but it might be a factor.
    China is winning, at least on production costs.
    Europe can't, for now, get anywhere even close.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,111
    viewcode said:


    You:
    Copilot, I would like to talk about generalized linear models, or GLMs. Please give me a table with four columns. In the first column I want the type of variable (binary variable, count variable, skewed positive continuous variable, ordinal variable etc). In the second column I want the type of distribution (Poisson, negative binomial, Ordered logistic, gamma, etc). In the third column I want the link function (log, inverse, etc). Can you do that for me please?

    Copilot:
    Certainly! Let’s create a table summarizing the components of generalized linear models (GLMs):

    Variable Type Distribution Link Function
    Binary variable Bernoulli Logit (log-odds)
    Count variable Poisson Log
    Skewed positive continuous variable Gamma Inverse
    Ordinal variable Cumulative logit Logit (log-odds)

    In GLMs, the random component follows an exponential family distribution, and the link function connects the random component to the covariates. If you have any further questions or need additional details, feel free to ask! 😊 12

    1 https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-650-statistics-for-applications-fall-2016/dff89368051a5feae72b39c6422d0752_MIT18_650F16_GLM.pdf
    2 https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat504/lesson/beyond-logistic-regression-generalized-linear-models-glm
    3 https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b571/handouts/GLM.pdf

    This is so fucking Star Trek it's not true. :love:

    Thank you Copilot. Can you expand the table to have more than four rows please?
    Copilot: provides a table with nine rows
    Thank you Copilot. In the table you gave me, can you please provide a fourth column with example Stata code for each row?
    Copilot: provides a fourth column with Stata code for each row


    Fuuuuuck me, this is fun! :):):):):):):):):):)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,524
    @Leon are you taking your eye off the ball re the Trump shooting. You were a bit late with the delay in action over the guy on the roof and I haven't seen anything from you re the lady in white behind Trump with her phone which is sending the conspiracy world alight.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    Have Volvo and Audi ended EV production? Their product roadmaps (and those of the other OEMs) are rammed with EVs.

    EVs are expensive to make so the initial offerings only made commercial sense as premium products so many EVs were very big, heavy and powerful.

    As some of these came off lease the difficulty of accurately ascertaining the health of the battery pack knocked the shit out of resale values. Projected range is useless for this purpose. The manufacturers actually make it very difficult to do this. I can do it with the Bimmerflow app on our iX but BMW certainly don't make it easy. Our iX has 98% health after 7,000 miles which is very good as you get most of the degradation in the first year.

    Add the insurance costs and the emergent cheap Chinese competition and you've got some manufacturers with high-end products with poor resales values and high insurance costs which makes them expensive to lease.

    It's like the dotcom bust of the early noughties or the home computer bust of the 80s. The first wave of products has a lot of very conspicuous and high profile failures but the course is set at this point.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    viewcode said:


    You:
    Copilot, I would like to talk about generalized linear models, or GLMs. Please give me a table with four columns. In the first column I want the type of variable (binary variable, count variable, skewed positive continuous variable, ordinal variable etc). In the second column I want the type of distribution (Poisson, negative binomial, Ordered logistic, gamma, etc). In the third column I want the link function (log, inverse, etc). Can you do that for me please?

    Copilot:
    Certainly! Let’s create a table summarizing the components of generalized linear models (GLMs):

    Variable Type Distribution Link Function
    Binary variable Bernoulli Logit (log-odds)
    Count variable Poisson Log
    Skewed positive continuous variable Gamma Inverse
    Ordinal variable Cumulative logit Logit (log-odds)

    In GLMs, the random component follows an exponential family distribution, and the link function connects the random component to the covariates. If you have any further questions or need additional details, feel free to ask! 😊 12

    1 https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-650-statistics-for-applications-fall-2016/dff89368051a5feae72b39c6422d0752_MIT18_650F16_GLM.pdf
    2 https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat504/lesson/beyond-logistic-regression-generalized-linear-models-glm
    3 https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b571/handouts/GLM.pdf

    This is so fucking Star Trek it's not true. :love:

    You are collapsing into an AI bore singularity like old mate Leon.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    What's in the High Speed Rail; Crewe to Manchester Bill ?
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17
    Planning Reform includes compulsory purchase reform, and also the "delayed by connections to the grid" constraint.

    further reforming compulsory purchase compensation rules to ensure that compensation paid to landowners is fair but not excessive where important social and physical infrastructure and affordable housing are being delivered. The reforms will help unlock more sites for development, enabling more effective land assembly, and in doing so speeding up housebuilding and delivering more affordable housing, supporting the public
    interest.


    That will help with prices, or alternatively planning gain levies to raise cash for local authorities. Currently Planning Gain generates up to around £10bn a year.

    Interesting lever is that potentially the extra revenue will incentivise Local Authorities to support more development, if they are allowed to keep some of it.

    Page 18: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/669791c549b9c0597fdafe63/King_s_Speech_2024_background_briefing_notes.pdf
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,856
    MattW said:

    A couple of interesting omissions from the Speech. As someone has already mentioned, nothing about prisons or penal reform. And nothing at all (unless I missed it) about Social Care and its massive impact of the NHS.

    Edit - and mention of NATO but no explicit mention of Ukraine.

    He did mention Ukraine, or I thought he did - about support and NATO membership.

    My Government will continue to give its full support to Ukraine and its people and it will endeavour to play a leading role in providing Ukraine with a clear path to NATO membership.
    “Endeavour to play a leading role”

    That’s garbage. You either play a leading ro or you don’t. It’s a choice.

    I think what they meant that they will be play a leading role in pushing for Ukraine to be provided with a clear path but they can’t guarantee success

    But their speechwriter needs to be upgraded
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    Also interesting will be the Water (Special Measures) Bill.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,941
    edited July 17
    Nigelb said:

    What's in the High Speed Rail; Crewe to Manchester Bill ?

    P43 in the doc I linked. To me it smells of investment decisions being much more devolved regionally.

    What does the Bill do?

    ● We are not reversing the decision to cancel the second Phase of HS2. Instead,
    we are repurposing the High Speed Rail (Crewe – Manchester) Bill to provide
    powers to construct and operate rail projects which improve east to west
    connectivity across the north of England.
    ● Using this Bill to enable delivery of key infrastructure ensures that we can deliver
    on our manifesto commitment to improve rail connectivity in the north of
    England at pace. The Bill includes powers for important rail infrastructure in
    Manchester and the surrounding area, including new stations at Manchester
    Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.
    ● Local leaders in the north of England have been vocal in calling for this Bill
    to support ambitions to address the productivity gap in the north of England by
    transforming rail connectivity between the region’s economic centres through
    transformative infrastructure investment.
    ● Carrying this Bill over demonstrates commitment to making progress on rail
    connectivity whilst we work with local leaders on an improved overall strategy.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 7,856

    So much for "change"

    There's nothing in the speech which will do much to change lives.

    Continuity Sunak

    The bitter PB Tories (and @Mexicanpete ) vacillate on an hourly basis from Labour will turn the UK into a ruinous socialist one-party autocracy and Labour will do nothing and are just Continuity Tories in more fashionable clothes.

    Funny old world.
    Both these outcomes are true in @Luckyguy1983’s world…
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    Nigelb said:

    Also interesting will be the Water (Special Measures) Bill.

    Are they going to send directors to jail or let the Water Cos go bust ?

    Cant see it myself it will be the usual lawyer fest of public enquiries and establishment non events.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,108

    Pulpstar said:

    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
    I think that’s unfair

    Most governments can only handle a few things with top priority. For the Tories those were Europe, Covid and Ukraine. All their other plans - whatever you might think of them - were deprioritised.

    Europe - again regardless of what you think of the result or the negotiation - needed a resolution. It had been a festering wound for all of my adult life (effectively since Maastricht). Of course it will always a big topic but the fundamental question - in or out - has been resolved for the foreseeable future.


    I think that's a cop out

    With the sheer amount of people in government, both Whitehall and
    Westminster these days the government
    should have been able to walk and chew
    gum on stuff like prisons.
    Doesn’t really work like that in the real world.

    In order to get stuff pushed through the system you need political drive and attention from the top otherwise it gets bogged down.

    Building a prison? Every local council will object, as will every nimby, do gooder and political activist. And that’s before you have to fight the treasury for the budget.

    It’s not happening unless the PM says it must

    The only real mandate this government was elected on was to run the business of government - which is the matter of running UK plc - competently and honestly and resolve outstanding problems as well and as rapidly as possible. The idea you can only do a handful of competent things at a time is nonsense. The government of civil administration absolutely is the whole of UK plc. That's why nationally it employs so many people and spends so much of our money.

    At this moment none of this can be done by courting every bit of local popularity or think about the next election.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 22,508
    Nigelb said:

    What's in the High Speed Rail; Crewe to Manchester Bill ?

    Ooh?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,660
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    What's in the High Speed Rail; Crewe to Manchester Bill ?

    P43 in the doc I linked. To me it smells of investment decisions being much more devolved regionally.

    What does the Bill do?

    ● We are not reversing the decision to cancel the second Phase of HS2. Instead,
    we are repurposing the High Speed Rail (Crewe – Manchester) Bill to provide
    powers to construct and operate rail projects which improve east to west
    connectivity across the north of England.
    ● Using this Bill to enable delivery of key infrastructure ensures that we can deliver
    on our manifesto commitment to improve rail connectivity in the north of
    England at pace. The Bill includes powers for important rail infrastructure in
    Manchester and the surrounding area, including new stations at Manchester
    Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.
    ● Local leaders in the north of England have been vocal in calling for this Bill
    to support ambitions to address the productivity gap in the north of England by
    transforming rail connectivity between the region’s economic centres through
    transformative infrastructure investment.

    ● Carrying this Bill over demonstrates commitment to making progress on rail
    connectivity whilst we work with local leaders on an improved overall strategy.
    It is very hard to see how any of that is possible without the extra capacity from the full plan of HS2.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 68,892
    MattW said:

    Planning Reform includes compulsory purchase reform, and also the "delayed by connections to the grid" constraint.

    further reforming compulsory purchase compensation rules to ensure that compensation paid to landowners is fair but not excessive where important social and physical infrastructure and affordable housing are being delivered. The reforms will help unlock more sites for development, enabling more effective land assembly, and in doing so speeding up housebuilding and delivering more affordable housing, supporting the public
    interest.


    That will help with prices, or alternatively planning gain levies to raise cash for local authorities. Currently Planning Gain generates up to around £10bn a year.

    Interesting lever is that potentially the extra revenue will incentivise Local Authorities to support more development, if they are allowed to keep some of it.

    Page 18: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/669791c549b9c0597fdafe63/King_s_Speech_2024_background_briefing_notes.pdf

    Great news that they seem to have grasped that nettle.
    Even if they only have it, that might be (depending on how the rules are structured) c.£5bn pa effective financing to local authorities at little cost (other than the CGT foregone) to the Treasury.

    I'd allow them to keep all of it if it goes back into LA housing within a set timeframe.

  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,310
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:


    You:
    Copilot, I would like to talk about generalized linear models, or GLMs. Please give me a table with four columns. In the first column I want the type of variable (binary variable, count variable, skewed positive continuous variable, ordinal variable etc). In the second column I want the type of distribution (Poisson, negative binomial, Ordered logistic, gamma, etc). In the third column I want the link function (log, inverse, etc). Can you do that for me please?

    Copilot:
    Certainly! Let’s create a table summarizing the components of generalized linear models (GLMs):

    Variable Type Distribution Link Function
    Binary variable Bernoulli Logit (log-odds)
    Count variable Poisson Log
    Skewed positive continuous variable Gamma Inverse
    Ordinal variable Cumulative logit Logit (log-odds)

    In GLMs, the random component follows an exponential family distribution, and the link function connects the random component to the covariates. If you have any further questions or need additional details, feel free to ask! 😊 12

    1 https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-650-statistics-for-applications-fall-2016/dff89368051a5feae72b39c6422d0752_MIT18_650F16_GLM.pdf
    2 https://online.stat.psu.edu/stat504/lesson/beyond-logistic-regression-generalized-linear-models-glm
    3 https://faculty.washington.edu/heagerty/Courses/b571/handouts/GLM.pdf

    This is so fucking Star Trek it's not true. :love:

    Thank you Copilot. Can you expand the table to have more than four rows please?
    Copilot: provides a table with nine rows
    Thank you Copilot. In the table you gave me, can you please provide a fourth column with example Stata code for each row?
    Copilot: provides a fourth column with Stata code for each row


    Fuuuuuck me, this is fun! :):):):):):):):):):)
    I'm always polite with Copilot too. I'm not sure if that makes any difference to the output :smile:
  • kenObikenObi Posts: 81
    viewcode said:

    Apologies for going OT on such a busy day but I have a question I am hoping those with more knoeledge than me can answer.

    What the feck is going on with EV production?

    Volvo and Audi have both now announced they are ending EV production due to a collapse in demand. I genuinely can't see why this is happening. I could understand it if there was a slow take up with a steadily growing market as performance/range/costs improve - which they do seem to be doing all the time. What I can't uderstand is why there was farily quick growth in the market and now it is in serious retreat. Particularly with all the Governments around Europe including the UK saying they will end all ICE production in the next decade.

    So why the collapse? I am genuinely puzzled.

    I am not a subject expert, but some people on PB are, and from their previous discussions it may be because of the following
    • the Chinese are mass producing batteries and flooding the market with cheap batteries and EVs, undercutting the indigines
    • Postponement of the deadlines to 2035
    • EV demand is limited to people who can charge them and have the tech to interface with the chargers. This puts a hard lid on demand: not everybody has a parking space, not everybody has a smartphone, not evreybody has a lead from their house to their car
    Happy to be contradicted if wrong or incomplete.
    Tiny number of people in the market for a new car who doesn't have a smart phone
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    MattW said:

    A couple of interesting omissions from the Speech. As someone has already mentioned, nothing about prisons or penal reform. And nothing at all (unless I missed it) about Social Care and its massive impact of the NHS.

    Edit - and mention of NATO but no explicit mention of Ukraine.

    He did mention Ukraine, or I thought he did - about support and NATO membership.

    My Government will continue to give its full support to Ukraine and its people and it will endeavour to play a leading role in providing Ukraine with a clear path to NATO membership.
    “Endeavour to play a leading role”

    That’s garbage. You either play a leading ro or you don’t. It’s a choice.

    I think what they meant that they will be play a leading role in pushing for Ukraine to be provided with a clear path but they can’t guarantee success

    But their speechwriter needs to be upgraded
    No it is not. Everyone bar one who auditions for a leading role is endeavouring to play it, both lit. and metaph.

    I think they are trying to avoid Blair's mistake. He said something very conceited early on about how we would be simultaneously detached from the EU but in charge of it.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 48,495

    Pulpstar said:

    stodge said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MaxPB said:

    So on one hand the government is giving early release to thousands of criminals but on the other it will reverse the idiotic 2014 policy to give lesser sentencing to thefts with less than £200 value. Amateur hour.

    On early release, I don't think Labour had much realistic choice. Capacity was needed yesterday.
    Yes, the Conservatives had 14 years leading the Government to resolve prison capacity issues and completely and abjectly failed - they failed because it was too difficult for them. Building new prisons, upgrading the current estate, hiring enough prison officers, all just too difficult.

    What did they do instead? Waste more than a decade of the nation's time, energy and resources deciding if we should be in the EU and even that was too much effort.

    They deserved the kicking they got two weeks ago. Hopefully it'll be decades before they are allowed near power again.
    I think that’s unfair

    Most governments can only handle a few things with top priority. For the Tories those were Europe, Covid and Ukraine. All their other plans - whatever you might think of them - were deprioritised.

    Europe - again regardless of what you think of the result or the negotiation - needed a resolution. It had been a festering wound for all of my adult life (effectively since Maastricht). Of course it will always a big topic but the fundamental question - in or out - has been resolved for the foreseeable future.


    I think that's a cop out

    With the sheer amount of people in government, both Whitehall and
    Westminster these days the government
    should have been able to walk and chew
    gum on stuff like prisons.
    Doesn’t really work like that in the real world.

    In order to get stuff pushed through the system you need political drive and attention from the top otherwise it gets bogged down.

    Building a prison? Every local council will object, as will every nimby, do gooder and political activist. And that’s before you have to fight the treasury for the budget.

    It’s not happening unless the PM says it must

    Imagine a world. In this world, a PM has a cabinet of strong, capable people. Who can manage departments efficiently. Beneath each of them, pyramids of effective managers who can take on the parts of the problem. And deliver.

    Then the PM has only to pronounce, in cabinet, the policy requirement.

    Crazy, isn't it.

    During COVID, when they were trying to get the home testing kits setup, a policy was announced. Met with complete resistance from the system. So the story goes, the big cheeses were hauled back into a meeting and informed that *all* of them would be fired if things didn't get moving.

    Sounds like running Douche Bank.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,221
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    What's in the High Speed Rail; Crewe to Manchester Bill ?

    P43 in the doc I linked. To me it smells of investment decisions being much more devolved regionally.

    What does the Bill do?

    ● We are not reversing the decision to cancel the second Phase of HS2. Instead,
    we are repurposing the High Speed Rail (Crewe – Manchester) Bill to provide
    powers to construct and operate rail projects which improve east to west
    connectivity across the north of England.
    ● Using this Bill to enable delivery of key infrastructure ensures that we can deliver
    on our manifesto commitment to improve rail connectivity in the north of
    England at pace. The Bill includes powers for important rail infrastructure in
    Manchester and the surrounding area, including new stations at Manchester
    Piccadilly and Manchester Airport.
    ● Local leaders in the north of England have been vocal in calling for this Bill
    to support ambitions to address the productivity gap in the north of England by
    transforming rail connectivity between the region’s economic centres through
    transformative infrastructure investment.

    ● Carrying this Bill over demonstrates commitment to making progress on rail
    connectivity whilst we work with local leaders on an improved overall strategy.
    It is very hard to see how any of that is possible without the extra capacity from the full plan of HS2.

    or more money
This discussion has been closed.