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London Rising – The Pentagon and the Election – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,008
edited August 4 in General
imageLondon Rising – The Pentagon and the Election – politicalbetting.com

What happened in London at the General Election?

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,306
    The swing from Conservative to Labour was a modest 3.25% – much less than in many other parts of the country but London is a complex and multi-layered story.

    Would one factor in that muted swing be that the Tories had a less than stellar result in London in 2019 so they hadn't as far to fall as elsewhere?
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,475
    Second like Spain
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,400
    Third
  • moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,475
    ydoethur said:

    The swing from Conservative to Labour was a modest 3.25% – much less than in many other parts of the country but London is a complex and multi-layered story.

    Would one factor in that muted swing be that the Tories had a less than stellar result in London in 2019 so they hadn't as far to fall as elsewhere?

    The true swing was much more of course. But was mitigated by the Labour - Green swing.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 13
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    OOF.

    Elon Musk: "The European Commission offered 𝕏 an illegal secret deal: if we quietly censored speech without telling anyone, they would not fine us.

    The other platforms accepted that deal.

    𝕏 did not"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1811783320839008381?t=3hj2mGLLj5JQ2oE8tgaHrQ&s=19

    If only Elon Musk didn't have a habit of lying, he would make a compelling witness.
    That is quite a bold statement to make about someone with pockets as deep as he has.

    Anyway we will find out more soon enough:

    "We look forward to a very public battle in court, so that the people of Europe can know the truth"

    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1811805084981834164?t=MuJnuBka61jDheKDj54evg&s=19
    Elon Musk's habit of lying is hardly debatable, let alone actionable.

    Whereas accusing his business competitors of an "illegal deal" . . .
    Coincidentally enough, Twitter (and other places...) are quite alive today with allegations that Twitter is deleting comments linking Musk and Epstein...
    I always liked the way that Musk shut down the account of the person who used publicly available information to track his jet. A true free speech champion there.

    Or, indeed, the way he sued Media Matters over their research.

    Basically, like a lot of very rich people (of all political hues), he's turned into a bit of a bullying asshole.
    Elon Musk is 21st-century version of Henry Ford.
    Elon Musk is 21st-century version of Isambard Kingdom Brunel.
    Builder of overpriced vehicles that stimulated development but ultimately were costly failures?

    Mad bully whose staff all loathed him?

    Those could work.

    I don't see the amazing civil engineering achievements that made up for Brunel's catastrophes in shipping and locomotives though.

    Nor do I see Musk as a good family man or a generous friend.
    I used to see Musk as a modern-day IKB, and even said so. There are numerous similarities.

    Now, sadly, he's much more like Henry Ford.

    (Having said that; though I like Brunel, he is not quite the genius-hero he is made out to be nowadays. Some of the obituaries when he died were somewhat scathing. e.g. https://www.theengineer.co.uk/content/archive/september-1859-brunels-obituary/)
    Brunel had an unfortunate tendency to let his ambition and imagination outrun both the available technology and his investors' financial resources.

    The atmospheric railway, iron hulled ships with screws, gyro compasses, shore tenders, bogie driving wheels, all could be justified and indeed in various guises all have been successful with modern materials. Just as the 7 foot gauge was in isolation a brilliant idea.

    But - they didn't work and cost a fortune.

    Now, Musk has made a success of Tesla a la the 7 foot gauge. It's bold, exciting and cool so people flock to it. And like the Great Britain, it will probably drive automotive development in ways that would not otherwise have happened.

    But - most of his other ideas don't work and cost a fortune.
    At least Brunel had reasons to think his ideas would work (even the atmospheric railway had worked in Ireland and ?Croydon?, at a smaller scale.

    The same cannot be said for some of Musk's ideas. Even ones he has had people paying millions for, like autonomous cars. Which still are not doing things he was promising for seven or more years ago.

    Thinks like Hyperloop are just a barmy idea, and the accusation is he proposed it just to kill off high-speed rail in California. (Note: some people, even intelligent people on here, said we should scrap HS2 and build a hyperloop instead.)
    I don't remember any intelligent people proposing that we should build a hyperloop.
    I quite like the Boring company... but I question how running Teslas in the tunnels with human drivers makes economic sense.
    In tunnels with no safe side egress/walkway or exit.

    The days of building conventional tube tunnels that the trains just fit inside are long over for similar safety reasons.

    Whether or not the driver is human.

    You need continuous side walkways and regular emergency exit shafts. Both of which are incompatible with hyperloop as the first makes the pressure differentials impossible and both make it far too expensive.

    For long underground sections you also need a service tunnel linked regularly to the running tunnels by cross passsges.

    These safety features were comprehensively validated in the channel tunnel fire where all were safely evacuated on both the train that caught fire and on other trains brought to a stand behind it.

    Hyperloop is not a particularly new idea though.

    https://lisahistory.net/wordpress/2020/12/victorian-high-tech-the-pneumatic-railway/

    If musk had had any sense on this one he would have promulgated it as a goods only transport concept, not passenger.


  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,400
    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals
  • IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,807
    How do we radically improve Britain's state capacity? Lord Adonis, Dominic Cummings
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMn_UqAsl4w

    For PBers who need more Dominic Cummings in their lives.
  • sbjme19sbjme19 Posts: 194
    Thanks for article, I'd noticed and been puzzled by the better Tory performance in some parts of London, the region where least expected perhaps. Harrow East really stands out and Labour struggled to win Hendon, which I thought an easy gain. Definitely sthg going on in NW.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,306

    How do we radically improve Britain's state capacity? Lord Adonis, Dominic Cummings
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nMn_UqAsl4w

    For PBers who need more Dominic Cummings in their lives.

    Getting and keeping people like those two out of it would be a bloody good start.
  • moonshine said:

    ydoethur said:

    The swing from Conservative to Labour was a modest 3.25% – much less than in many other parts of the country but London is a complex and multi-layered story.

    Would one factor in that muted swing be that the Tories had a less than stellar result in London in 2019 so they hadn't as far to fall as elsewhere?

    The true swing was much more of course. But was mitigated by the Labour - Green swing.
    I suspect the Greens were the recipients of the Oh Jeremy Corbyn brigade (or those of them that bothered to vote this time).
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,470
    sbjme19 said:

    Thanks for article, I'd noticed and been puzzled by the better Tory performance in some parts of London, the region where least expected perhaps. Harrow East really stands out and Labour struggled to win Hendon, which I thought an easy gain. Definitely sthg going on in NW.

    Isn't it the ethnic make up of the seat, a bit like Leicester East?

    The question is will the middle class Hindu vote be quite so keen when Sunak is gone, or whether it is permanently moving to the latter.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    Bill Maher: Debate and Switch. The question isn’t “When?”, it’s Who?”
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCKNlj1uDyc
  • Maybe Sunak wasn't so daft to call an early election:

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/western-economy-on-the-edge-of-the-abyss/
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214
    ydoethur said:

    The swing from Conservative to Labour was a modest 3.25% – much less than in many other parts of the country but London is a complex and multi-layered story.

    Would one factor in that muted swing be that the Tories had a less than stellar result in London in 2019 so they hadn't as far to fall as elsewhere?

    Also that McSweeney strategy thing of annoying loyalists to win voters in swing seats.

    The Conservative success was very much a fringe of London thing. Apart from Chingford (which was a freak, for all it counts), do any of the Conservative seats really see themselves as London? The Conservative offer (love cars, love green belt, love massive capital gains on house prices, love society not changing) plays pretty well in Zone 6.

    As for next time, a lot depends on how the Con/Ref split plays next time. And that in turn depends on decisions taken by leading figures in those two parties. Good luck predicting that.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,837
    Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead treated in intensive care for an infection but now out of hospital: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dmp5x758xo
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,123
    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 118,123
    On topic, thanks Stodge.

  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,876

    Jonny Greenwood of Radiohead treated in intensive care for an infection but now out of hospital: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1dmp5x758xo

    So he's fitter, happier, more productive?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,655
    London seemed to be Rishi's best region outside Scotland. Below national average swing and a key hold in Harrow East with a high Hindu vote and a hold against the odds for IDS in Chingford
  • Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 25,982
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 120,655

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    Reform were aware and legally nothing to stop the ex banker staying an MP as his conviction and sentence were before his election. Though may raise some questions he is saying he is reformed
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,876
    tlg86 said:
    Of course it's not.

    It's staffed by youngish Met graduates and their views will reflect that demographic.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,637
    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,876
    HYUFD said:

    London seemed to be Rishi's best region outside Scotland. Below national average swing and a key hold in Harrow East with a high Hindu vote and a hold against the odds for IDS in Chingford

    Hendon was bloody close too.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,306

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?

    That being said without knowing more details of the case from reliable sources (so not Reform or the Mail comments section) it's hard to judge how serious it was.

    A more pertinent question might be, did Standard Chartered know about it when they hired him?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,306
    edited July 13
    tlg86 said:
    Given how disliked the core civil service is in the wider public sector, it's also a very foolish article if it's trying to rally support for Labour.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,570
    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Let’s all hope so.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,604
    HYUFD said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    Reform were aware and legally nothing to stop the ex banker staying an MP as his conviction and sentence were before his election. Though may raise some questions he is saying he is reformed
    Also raises some questions about the competence of the Tory team that were campaigning against him.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,550
    edited July 13
    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 70,306

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Might depend on whether Israel decide to fully reoccupy Gaza or not.

    Which, in turn, will hinge on the actions of the Iranian government in their direction of Hamas and Hezbollah.

    Iran is entering a new period of instability and crisis of course, with the electorate just having messed with the rulers' preferred candidate just as Khamenei seems set to pop his clogs and his succession plans crashed into a mountain. But that could easily make things worse in the ME as potential candidates jockey to show how big their cocks are.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    edited July 13

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    The impression is certainly given, that the CS spent the last few years trying their best to frustrate the wishes of the government, rather than enacting the government’s policy to the best of their ability.

    Articles such as the Guardian has published today, don’t exactly dispel that idea.
  • Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Sectarian independents. Gaza is just the current rallying call.

    Have the DUP gone away?

    I expect them in due course to win more seats and form one or more parties.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,098
    Congrats on your winning tips Stodge.
    I think a lot of the green surge was people feeling confident Labour would win.

    My guess would be that next time the election will look a lot closer.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    edited July 13
    Great try England, right on half time! 🏉

    Edit: and the conversion too, 14:13 ahead at the break.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,536
    edited July 13
    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?

    “Points” = generic monetary units, without being so vulgar as to discuss whether you’re betting large or small amounts. He could be £14 up, or could be £14,000 up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 47,470

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    I think they get support from more than just sectarian support for Gaza, but also a similar source of support as other working class communities for Reform. Reform taps into the idea that some communities are neglected as unwanted by the metropolitan elite, so do these independents. People want local voices for local people, a sentiment that the LDs have worked over the years.

  • BlancheLivermoreBlancheLivermore Posts: 5,564
    I've just had more enjoyment and entertainment from forty minutes of Eden Park than forty hours of Euro footbore have provided
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 58,876
    On topic, well done @stodge - great tips.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,841
    edited July 13

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Because conflict in the Middle East usually fades away and doesn't drag on for decades with entrenched hatreds? Well, there's a lucky escape and no mistake... 😃
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,442
    edited July 13

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,570
    viewcode said:

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Because conflict in the Middle East usually fades away and doesn't drag on for decades with entrenched hatreds? Well, there's a lucky escape and no mistake... 😃
    I have no problem with people advocating for Palestine - there are very few people out there demanding that they be slaughtered. I do have a problem with angry misogynists agitating a community using Palestine as an excuse.

    Some of the "campaigning" which has been done by these independents has been truly appalling. I would say that it needs to stop but the best way to stop these things is expose them to the glare of publicity which has now happened.

    I expect we will get byelections in a few of these. Local agitator wins a seat by saying down with women Labour Israel. Wins. Is then shown up to be a useless arse, and all kinds of fun gets leaked.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,841
    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?

    “Points” = generic monetary units, without being so vulgar as to discuss whether you’re betting large or small amounts. He could be £14 up, or could be £14,000 up.
    Although I understand your response, it doesn't wholly answer the question. Which of these is true?

    * Stodge put in 1 and got 14 back
    * Stodge put in 1 and got 15 back
    * Stodge put in 100 and got 114 back
    * Other?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,421
    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    Yes, it must have been a very long and arduous search. What do we think it involved - going to Whitehall and throwing a coin?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    edited July 13
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?

    “Points” = generic monetary units, without being so vulgar as to discuss whether you’re betting large or small amounts. He could be £14 up, or could be £14,000 up.
    Although I understand your response, it doesn't wholly answer the question. Which of these is true?

    * Stodge put in 1 and got 14 back
    * Stodge put in 1 and got 15 back
    * Stodge put in 100 and got 114 back
    * Other?
    I would suggest either your third option, or the fourth option that he bet a number of banknotes and ended up with 14 more than at the start of the exercise.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,536
    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,536
    edited July 13
    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?

    “Points” = generic monetary units, without being so vulgar as to discuss whether you’re betting large or small amounts. He could be £14 up, or could be £14,000 up.
    Although I understand your response, it doesn't wholly answer the question. Which of these is true?

    * Stodge put in 1 and got 14 back
    * Stodge put in 1 and got 15 back
    * Stodge put in 100 and got 114 back
    * Other?
    I would suggest either your third option, or the fourth option that he bet a random number of banknotes and ended up with 14 more than at the start of the exercise.
    Thanks.

    Roubles, millions of ! :smile:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,445
    England by 4...
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    edited July 13
    MattW said:

    Sandpit said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    MattW said:

    Thank-you for the header.

    A nice summary.

    One question - what do you mean, @stodge , by "a profit of 14 points"?

    “Points” = generic monetary units, without being so vulgar as to discuss whether you’re betting large or small amounts. He could be £14 up, or could be £14,000 up.
    Although I understand your response, it doesn't wholly answer the question. Which of these is true?

    * Stodge put in 1 and got 14 back
    * Stodge put in 1 and got 15 back
    * Stodge put in 100 and got 114 back
    * Other?
    I would suggest either your third option, or the fourth option that he bet a random number of banknotes and ended up with 14 more than at the start of the exercise.
    Thanks.

    Roubles, millions of ! :smile:
    Good luck changing roubles for real money.

    When I was on holiday in Instabul last year, there was a 100% spread on roubles at the local currency houses. They were buying them for X lira and selling them for 2X lira, when the “official” exchange rate was around the 2X mark.

    In the sandpit they want nothing to do with them, so the Russians who moved here came with gold and bitcoin!
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,442

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    Agree. My experience regarding cockups is the civil service becomes defensive. It doesn't matter if the cockups happened under Lab or Tory Govt they defend what happened to the death. Sadly I have plenty of experience of this in campaigns I have been involved in.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 51,445
    kjh said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    Agree. My experience regarding cockups is the civil service becomes defensive. It doesn't matter if the cockups happened under Lab or Tory Govt they defend what happened to the death. Sadly I have plenty of experience of this in campaigns I have been involved in.
    Ditto
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,052
    edited July 13

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    Reform have a couple of problems here.

    Firstly, his version of events ("I pushed her. She fell over and she was hurt") is not consistent with the story of two bouncers pulling him away, nor with the fact he received a custodial sentence. It does look as if he is, to put it mildly, playing down the incident.

    Secondly, he'll have had other girlfriends in the years that followed. Maybe the incident was a wake-up call and he completely changed his personality from that day forwards. Or maybe not.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,068

    viewcode said:

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Because conflict in the Middle East usually fades away and doesn't drag on for decades with entrenched hatreds? Well, there's a lucky escape and no mistake... 😃
    I have no problem with people advocating for Palestine - there are very few people out there demanding that they be slaughtered. I do have a problem with angry misogynists agitating a community using Palestine as an excuse.

    Some of the "campaigning" which has been done by these independents has been truly appalling. I would say that it needs to stop but the best way to stop these things is expose them to the glare of publicity which has now happened.

    I expect we will get byelections in a few of these. Local agitator wins a seat by saying down with women Labour Israel. Wins. Is then shown up to be a useless arse, and all kinds of fun gets leaked.
    Are we still having demos ? It looks like the Left have got bored of Gaza and now want to move on to something else.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 26,807
    kjh said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    Agree. My experience regarding cockups is the civil service becomes defensive. It doesn't matter if the cockups happened under Lab or Tory Govt they defend what happened to the death. Sadly I have plenty of experience of this in campaigns I have been involved in.
    Tony Blair said something similar, that the Civil Service is not biased to left or right but to inaction and inertia, or to apply a different spin, stability.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 16,214

    viewcode said:

    Great piece as always Stodge.

    Surely the pro-Hamas independents will be a thing of the past next time out?

    Because conflict in the Middle East usually fades away and doesn't drag on for decades with entrenched hatreds? Well, there's a lucky escape and no mistake... 😃
    I have no problem with people advocating for Palestine - there are very few people out there demanding that they be slaughtered. I do have a problem with angry misogynists agitating a community using Palestine as an excuse.

    Some of the "campaigning" which has been done by these independents has been truly appalling. I would say that it needs to stop but the best way to stop these things is expose them to the glare of publicity which has now happened.

    I expect we will get byelections in a few of these. Local agitator wins a seat by saying down with women Labour Israel. Wins. Is then shown up to be a useless arse, and all kinds of fun gets leaked.
    The obvious example of that is Gorgeous George.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,400
    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    And it's 2026, by which time the government might not be so popular as it is now, having just stormed a third of the national vote.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,533
    NZ at 4/6 for me
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,082
    HYUFD said:

    London seemed to be Rishi's best region outside Scotland. Below national average swing and a key hold in Harrow East with a high Hindu vote and a hold against the odds for IDS in Chingford

    Very good result for the Tories in Brent West as well. Harrow West was a bit disappointing by comparison.
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,462
    Good morning, everyone.

    Mr. JohnL, inactivity and inertia are only stable if circumstances never ever change.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 561
    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    The impression is certainly given, that the CS spent the last few years trying their best to frustrate the wishes of the government, rather than enacting the government’s policy to the best of their ability.

    Articles such as the Guardian has published today, don’t exactly dispel that idea.
    As a former civil servant I thought the headline was right but the article was poor. The previous government has been particularly bad for briefing against civil servants. A succession of ministers have bashed civil servants for things like too much focus on diversity (I remember when we were being attacked for being too white and elitist), rainbow lanyards, pride flags, office attendance and so on. They’ve been attacked as the blob every time an ill thought out government policy miraculously fails to gain traction. Look at Suella Braverman’s disgraceful comments at the recent PopCon conference. Civil servants are only human in hoping for a better time with a new government. The article didn’t do a good job of conveying that though.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    Dammit that was a great try from the All Blacks.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 27,421
    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    The impression is certainly given, that the CS spent the last few years trying their best to frustrate the wishes of the government, rather than enacting the government’s policy to the best of their ability.

    Articles such as the Guardian has published today, don’t exactly dispel that idea.
    As a former civil servant I thought the headline was right but the article was poor. The previous government has been particularly bad for briefing against civil servants. A succession of ministers have bashed civil servants for things like too much focus on diversity (I remember when we were being attacked for being too white and elitist), rainbow lanyards, pride flags, office attendance and so on. They’ve been attacked as the blob every time an ill thought out government policy miraculously fails to gain traction. Look at Suella Braverman’s disgraceful comments at the recent PopCon conference. Civil servants are only human in hoping for a better time with a new government. The article didn’t do a good job of conveying that though.
    Civil servants have briefed relentlessly against Ministers and against policies they didn’t like - trying to indicate that it has been a one way street, or frankly even equal, is specious. Dominic Raab had to resign for throwing a piece of tomato into a bin in an overly contemptuous manner. The organisation is a national disgrace.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 13
    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    In the two recent byelections on July 4th the Libdems came 4th in both behind Labour, Green and Tory with 12% of the vote in St Helier and 7% in Figges Marsh.

    In the last election two years ago (2022) Labour won 31, Libdems 17, Tories 7 and Merton Park Residents 2 (total seats 57, 29 needed for majority

    The only split wards with Labour were Abbey and Wandle, where Libdems won 2 and Labour 1.

    In the Labour only wards.
    Colliers Wood (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th
    Cricket Green (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Figges Marsh (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Graveney (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Lavender Fields (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Longthornton (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Pollards Hill (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Ravensbury(3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    St Helier (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.

    The landslides in those seats were vast. Labour typically won about 75% of the vote between the three candidates. Libdems 6% between their 3.

    Those wards alone leave Labour just two short of a majority.

    Labour also won two seats in Lower Morden. In this one the tories were a close second and Libdems were er.. fourth.

    PS in Wimbledon, Village remains Tory and Hillside Tory/Lib Split.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 31,082
    "Releasing violent prisoners early is risky, admits justice secretary

    Shabana Mahmood says new measures to ease overcrowding crisis is only way to ‘avert disaster’ in the jail system"

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/prison-early-release-plan-labour-starmer-67cnfc9k9
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,118
    Powerful piece from the Lincoln Project about the next Trump administration: https://youtu.be/NpLpOtFNFWg

    The stakes in their election are simply extraordinary for all of us.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,442
    edited July 13
    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    And it's 2026, by which time the government might not be so popular as it is now, having just stormed a third of the national vote.
    Actually I am going to back off my bullish response a bit in fairness to @MisterBedfordshire. Looking a bit further in wards where Labour won all seats they are a long way ahead of the LDs, so finding that extra ward or two may be a challenge to take control.. Also Village looks like a very good prospect from the Tories. So @MisterBedfordshire really wasn't that wrong, but there are easily 8 gains there for the taking, 2 from Labour which would make it 29 Lab, 25 LD I think. LDs up from 17. That is based upon split wards and one marginal ward. Haven't looked at other Tory wards which might be vulnerable.

    Edit: There are no other Tory wards where they have all the seats.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    The impression is certainly given, that the CS spent the last few years trying their best to frustrate the wishes of the government, rather than enacting the government’s policy to the best of their ability.

    Articles such as the Guardian has published today, don’t exactly dispel that idea.
    As a former civil servant I thought the headline was right but the article was poor. The previous government has been particularly bad for briefing against civil servants. A succession of ministers have bashed civil servants for things like too much focus on diversity (I remember when we were being attacked for being too white and elitist), rainbow lanyards, pride flags, office attendance and so on. They’ve been attacked as the blob every time an ill thought out government policy miraculously fails to gain traction. Look at Suella Braverman’s disgraceful comments at the recent PopCon conference. Civil servants are only human in hoping for a better time with a new government. The article didn’t do a good job of conveying that though.
    Yes it’s a difficult job, with constantly changing priorities, but the trend in recent years has been for the senior CS to brief the media themselves, which should be a real no-no for those in the permanent bureaucracy.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,679

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
  • kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    And it's 2026, by which time the government might not be so popular as it is now, having just stormed a third of the national vote.
    Actually I am going to back off my bullish response a bit in fairness to @MisterBedfordshire. Looking a bit further in wards where Labour won all seats they are a long way ahead of the LDs, so finding that extra ward or two may be a challenge to take control.. Also Village looks like a very good prospect from the Tories. So @MisterBedfordshire really wasn't that wrong, but there are easily 8 gains there for the taking, 2 from Labour which would make it 29 Lab, 25 LD I think. LDs up from 17. That is based upon split wards and one marginal ward. Haven't looked at other Tory wards which might be vulnerable.
    Libs are fourth in 29 out of 58 of the seats. 27 of them are held by Labour and two Tory.

    The best you could hope for would be a Tory - Libdem - Merton Park Independents coalition with 30 seats to Labours 27.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,233
    I'd like to see more evidence to support the assertion that the Civil Service has sought to frustrate the previous government's policy directives. The assertion seems to centre almost totally on the Home Office, and the legal difficulties in implementing the Rwanda scheme and some of the other asylum/immigration stuff.

    But is there any evidence of the Civil Service being reluctant to implement policy in any of the other myriad departments of government? If so, I haven't seen it.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 561

    Stereodog said:

    Sandpit said:

    EPG said:

    tlg86 said:
    The Guardian, naturally, has found a Labour supporting civil servant. Many others don't (and prospered in the last 14 years).
    The civil service acts in its own interest . Bias Is the Civil Service trying to stop the Govt doing things it doesn't approve of. The Govt of the day is irrelevant
    The impression is certainly given, that the CS spent the last few years trying their best to frustrate the wishes of the government, rather than enacting the government’s policy to the best of their ability.

    Articles such as the Guardian has published today, don’t exactly dispel that idea.
    As a former civil servant I thought the headline was right but the article was poor. The previous government has been particularly bad for briefing against civil servants. A succession of ministers have bashed civil servants for things like too much focus on diversity (I remember when we were being attacked for being too white and elitist), rainbow lanyards, pride flags, office attendance and so on. They’ve been attacked as the blob every time an ill thought out government policy miraculously fails to gain traction. Look at Suella Braverman’s disgraceful comments at the recent PopCon conference. Civil servants are only human in hoping for a better time with a new government. The article didn’t do a good job of conveying that though.
    Civil servants have briefed relentlessly against Ministers and against policies they didn’t like - trying to indicate that it has been a one way street, or frankly even equal, is specious. Dominic Raab had to resign for throwing a piece of tomato into a bin in an overly contemptuous manner. The organisation is a national disgrace.
    Dominic Raab had to resign for bullying his staff. Throwing a tomato in a bin is your summary to try and minimise it.
  • kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    In the two recent byelections on July 4th the Libdems came 4th in both behind Labour, Green and Tory with 12% of the vote in St Helier and 7% in Figges Marsh.

    In the last election two years ago (2022) Labour won 31, Libdems 17, Tories 7 and Merton Park Residents 2 (total seats 57, 29 needed for majority

    The only split wards with Labour were Abbey and Wandle, where Libdems won 2 and Labour 1.

    In the Labour only wards.
    Colliers Wood (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th
    Cricket Green (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Figges Marsh (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Graveney (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Lavender Fields (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Longthornton (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Pollards Hill (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Ravensbury(3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    St Helier (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.

    The landslides in those seats were vast. Labour typically won about 75% of the vote between the three candidates. Libdems 6% between their 3.

    Those wards alone leave Labour just two short of a majority.

    Labour also won two seats in Lower Morden. In this one the tories were a close second and Libdems were er.. fourth.

    PS in Wimbledon, Village remains Tory and Hillside Tory/Lib Split.
    I tend to agree Labour will be reasonably strong favourites to hold Merton in 2026 based on strong majorities in many seats in 2022.

    It will, however, be mid-term in a Labour Government, whereas 2022 was mid-term in a Tory one. It's not that unusual to see quite big swings on low turnouts in such elections, particularly if Lib Dems, Tories and Greens are fairly strategic in targeting.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,841
    DavidL said:

    Powerful piece from the Lincoln Project about the next Trump administration: https://youtu.be/NpLpOtFNFWg

    The stakes in their election are simply extraordinary for all of us.

    In all honesty, what is he going to do that affects you personally? I heartily dislike him and hope he loses, but his effects on Europeans will be limited to withdrawal of Ukrainian support and the usual legislative overreach, the latter of which happens whoever is President.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 13

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    In the two recent byelections on July 4th the Libdems came 4th in both behind Labour, Green and Tory with 12% of the vote in St Helier and 7% in Figges Marsh.

    In the last election two years ago (2022) Labour won 31, Libdems 17, Tories 7 and Merton Park Residents 2 (total seats 57, 29 needed for majority

    The only split wards with Labour were Abbey and Wandle, where Libdems won 2 and Labour 1.

    In the Labour only wards.
    Colliers Wood (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th
    Cricket Green (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Figges Marsh (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Graveney (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Lavender Fields (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Longthornton (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Pollards Hill (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    Ravensbury(3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.
    St Helier (3) Labour Landslide Libdems 4th.

    The landslides in those seats were vast. Labour typically won about 75% of the vote between the three candidates. Libdems 6% between their 3.

    Those wards alone leave Labour just two short of a majority.

    Labour also won two seats in Lower Morden. In this one the tories were a close second and Libdems were er.. fourth.

    PS in Wimbledon, Village remains Tory and Hillside Tory/Lib Split.
    I tend to agree Labour will be reasonably strong favourites to hold Merton in 2026 based on strong majorities in many seats in 2022.

    It will, however, be mid-term in a Labour Government, whereas 2022 was mid-term in a Tory one. It's not that unusual to see quite big swings on low turnouts in such elections, particularly if Lib Dems, Tories and Greens are fairly strategic in targeting.
    You would need to see absolutely epic swings. Those 9 Labour weigh the vote wards (each with 3 seats) saw 75% Labour vote with 25% for the other parties between them, with Green in second place and the Tories and Libdems scrabbling for crumbs.

    This is not a recent phenomenon either.

    Labour have rarely had a big majority in Merton but it is solid. Merton and Morden Labour party is also generally free of trots, momentumites and all the other -ites that plagued the inner London Constituency Labour Parties.

    The only real change since the early 1990s in seats held is that the Libdems have eaten into Tory seats in the west of the borough.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    Grandstand finish in the rugby. Come on England!
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,800
    Given he only won by 96 votes it’s pretty clear that the Reform candidate wouldn’t have won Basildon if his conviction had been known before the vote .

    No party should allow a candidate to stand for a seat if they’ve had a criminal conviction for a violent offense.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,536

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    I would be surprised tbh.

    AIUI ROA 1974 or the 2014 updates relate to specific circumstances such as job applications, not the public reporting of public information such as the records of criminal courts.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
    https://unlock.org.uk/advice/reporting-criminal-records-media/

    It's complicated.

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,118
    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Powerful piece from the Lincoln Project about the next Trump administration: https://youtu.be/NpLpOtFNFWg

    The stakes in their election are simply extraordinary for all of us.

    In all honesty, what is he going to do that affects you personally? I heartily dislike him and hope he loses, but his effects on Europeans will be limited to withdrawal of Ukrainian support and the usual legislative overreach, the latter of which happens whoever is President.
    I think that NATO will not survive a further Trump Presidency unscathed. This organisation has been the keystone of our defence and defence requirements for the last 75 years.

    I think, unless Europe really steps up its efforts, Ukraine will fall and Putin will become more dangerous on the back of that success.

    I think that the withdrawal of the US from international structures and law will seriously weaken and possibly destroy an already weakened international order.

    I fear that the hyper aggressive trade policies will trigger a repeat of the damage to international trade that we saw in the 1930s.

    The truth is we have relied on the US to maintain world order (in the main) since WW2. A lot of the assumptions and things we take for granted would be at risk.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    Well the guy in the black shirt who held that up, won’t be buying any beers for a while.

    Rugby is a great sport.
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,679

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
    https://unlock.org.uk/advice/reporting-criminal-records-media/

    It's complicated.

    very much, though surely there is a public interest opt out in this case?

    As a teacher I would have had to inform of all convictions whether spent or unspent. Isn't standing for parliament similar?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,837

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    No, the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act says nothing about newspaper stories about people’s past crimes.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,928

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    Reform have a couple of problems here.

    Firstly, his version of events ("I pushed her. She fell over and she was hurt") is not consistent with the story of two bouncers pulling him away, nor with the fact he received a custodial sentence. It does look as if he is, to put it mildly, playing down the incident.

    Secondly, he'll have had other girlfriends in the years that followed. Maybe the incident was a wake-up call and he completely changed his personality from that day forwards. Or maybe not.
    Morning everyone.
    What is noteworthy is that he is now a ‘merchant banker’. Or was until a week ago.
    So someone was prepared to give him a job post-prison.

    Unusually I’m inclined to agree with Reform; he’s sorted out his life, although obviously I don’t think much of his politics.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 13

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
    https://unlock.org.uk/advice/reporting-criminal-records-media/

    It's complicated.

    Looks to me that to report it during the election campaign would be quite a serious matter. Not so clear now.

    "Under the ROA, when a conviction has become spent, it is as though, for most purposes, it has never occurred. You are not obliged to disclose a spent conviction, and you should not be prejudiced as a result of one. This means that in law, for a media organisation to report your spent conviction amounts to an untruth, meaning that they are open to accusations of defamation.

    It is not a criminal offence to report a spent conviction, so the ROA does not impose a criminal penalty on journalists or media organisations who do so. As a result of the ROA, technically, anybody reading about the spent conviction shouldn’t use that information in a way that disadvantages you in any way. Of course, this is difficult to prove, and even if you could prove it, there is little you can do."
  • MattWMattW Posts: 21,536

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
    https://unlock.org.uk/advice/reporting-criminal-records-media/

    It's complicated.

    In this case I'm not sure it is complicated.

    On that link, the basic principle is that sentences are public information and can be reported, and the only reply is around defamation etc, where the reporter's defences of public interest etc are rebuttable presumptions.

    In the case of an MP from a 'tough on criminals' party, I'd say the relevance is clear.
  • Tim_in_RuislipTim_in_Ruislip Posts: 382
    nico679 said:


    No party should allow a candidate to stand for a seat if they’ve had a criminal conviction for a violent offense.

    Do you think there should be a ban, written into law?
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 871
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Powerful piece from the Lincoln Project about the next Trump administration: https://youtu.be/NpLpOtFNFWg

    The stakes in their election are simply extraordinary for all of us.

    In all honesty, what is he going to do that affects you personally? I heartily dislike him and hope he loses, but his effects on Europeans will be limited to withdrawal of Ukrainian support and the usual legislative overreach, the latter of which happens whoever is President.
    I think that NATO will not survive a further Trump Presidency unscathed. This organisation has been the keystone of our defence and defence requirements for the last 75 years.

    I think, unless Europe really steps up its efforts, Ukraine will fall and Putin will become more dangerous on the back of that success.

    I think that the withdrawal of the US from international structures and law will seriously weaken and possibly destroy an already weakened international order.

    I fear that the hyper aggressive trade policies will trigger a repeat of the damage to international trade that we saw in the 1930s.

    The truth is we have relied on the US to maintain world order (in the main) since WW2. A lot of the assumptions and things we take for granted would be at risk.
    The mad think to me is that being guarantor of Western security has been so massively in the US's interest but they would happily throw it away. The last thing the US wants from a Geopolitical perspective is European states being able to act independently and being able to pursue their own Geopolitical interests.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 9,837
    edited July 13

    MattW said:

    ydoethur said:

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    I'm mildly amused at the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade saying they believe people can 'change their lives.'

    I'm also intrigued by their claim that reporting on a criminal conviction is a breach of privacy. Would they take that attitude if it was Rayner? Did they take that attitude over Layla Moran?
    The irony there is that that is the case in the EU under "Right to be forgotten", which is why your page of Google results says Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe. at the bottom.

    https://policies.google.com/faq

    A feature of Brexit is that we can reverse this rule, so Mr McMurdock can have his history correctly documented :wink: .
    Rehabilitation of Offenders Act probably means this story should not have been printed
    Not sure about that actually..
    https://unlock.org.uk/advice/reporting-criminal-records-media/

    It's complicated.

    From that page: “This allows opinions about public figures relating to a conviction they have (even if it spent) to be published, if they are honestly held opinions and can be shown to be in the public interest. This defence works on the assumption that the actions of those in public positions (e.g. politicians) are open to public scrutiny.”

    So, it’s not complicated.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 20,841
    DavidL said:

    viewcode said:

    DavidL said:

    Powerful piece from the Lincoln Project about the next Trump administration: https://youtu.be/NpLpOtFNFWg

    The stakes in their election are simply extraordinary for all of us.

    In all honesty, what is he going to do that affects you personally? I heartily dislike him and hope he loses, but his effects on Europeans will be limited to withdrawal of Ukrainian support and the usual legislative overreach, the latter of which happens whoever is President.
    I think that NATO will not survive a further Trump Presidency unscathed. This organisation has been the keystone of our defence and defence requirements for the last 75 years.

    I think, unless Europe really steps up its efforts, Ukraine will fall and Putin will become more dangerous on the back of that success.

    I think that the withdrawal of the US from international structures and law will seriously weaken and possibly destroy an already weakened international order.

    I fear that the hyper aggressive trade policies will trigger a repeat of the damage to international trade that we saw in the 1930s.

    The truth is we have relied on the US to maintain world order (in the main) since WW2. A lot of the assumptions and things we take for granted would be at risk.
    I see, thank you
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 52,822
    edited July 13

    Have we done this?

    Revealed: Newly elected Reform MP James McMurdock was once jailed for attacking an ex-girlfriend outside a nightclub - as victim's mother slams 'monster' who 'should not be representing people'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13628999/Newly-elected-Reform-MP-James-McMurdock-jailed-attacking-ex-girlfriend-outside-nightclub-victims-mother-slams-monster-not-representing-people.html

    "Reform UK has confirmed McMurdock was jailed for assaulting a former girlfriend, but disputed the details of the attack.

    The MP himself described the incident as 'the biggest regret of my life'.

    In a statement, he said: 'While I absolutely deny the horrific details in this tale, there is one truth in it that I cannot, nor will not deny or hide from.

    'A generous person might call it a teenage indiscretion, but I do not expect everyone to be so kind.

    'Nearly 20 years ago, at 19 years of age, at the end of a night out together, we argued and I pushed her.

    'She fell over and she was hurt. Despite being 38 now and having lived a whole life again I still feel deeply ashamed of that moment and apologetic."...


    "When asked if Reform UK was aware that McMurdock had a conviction that resulted in a jail sentence before he was adopted as a prospective parliamentary candidate, a Reform UK spokesman replied: 'Yes. Reform UK was aware of James McMurdock's previous conviction and jail sentence.

    The spokesman went on to say that reporting the attack and McMurdock's prison sentence was a breach of his privacy.

    They added that Reform UK 'believes strongly that people can change their lives.'

    'Mr McMurdock absolutely rejects allegations that he either kicked, stamped or punched the victim, though he accepts that he pushed her, she fell and was injured"
    Reform have a couple of problems here.

    Firstly, his version of events ("I pushed her. She fell over and she was hurt") is not consistent with the story of two bouncers pulling him away, nor with the fact he received a custodial sentence. It does look as if he is, to put it mildly, playing down the incident.

    Secondly, he'll have had other girlfriends in the years that followed. Maybe the incident was a wake-up call and he completely changed his personality from that day forwards. Or maybe not.
    Morning everyone.
    What is noteworthy is that he is now a ‘merchant banker’. Or was until a week ago.
    So someone was prepared to give him a job post-prison.

    Unusually I’m inclined to agree with Reform; he’s sorted out his life, although obviously I don’t think much of his politics.
    Indeed. If he had a short prison sentence, then his conviction would have been ‘spent’ after four years. He appears to have subsequently had a successful career in banking, which says a lot about him as a person even if one disagrees with his politics. Yes he screwed up as a teenager, but he paid his penance to the victim and to society, and should now be allowed to live his life.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,442

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    kjh said:

    IanB2 said:

    Merton is certainly one to watch for the LDs in the next locals

    Not a chance. Sure they stand a good chance of winning seats off the tories in parts of Wimbledon, but Mitcham and big chunks of Merton and Morden are as solid labour as a welsh coal mining town.
    On what basis do you say that? Have you looked at the previous results ward by ward? LDs have a number of split wards with both the Tories and Labour so the LDs can pick all these up with just an increase of a few tens of votes for their least favoured candidate in each ward. They amount to 5 seats in total. They should all be a slam dunk. Wimbledon wards are all LD already so your comment of winning these off the Tories is not correct. They are winning outside of these areas. If they win these 5, which they should, they will only just be trailing Lab in total and Lab lose control (just). One competitive 3 member ward with Lab and they are on Labs heels. Anymore and they take control.
    And it's 2026, by which time the government might not be so popular as it is now, having just stormed a third of the national vote.
    Actually I am going to back off my bullish response a bit in fairness to @MisterBedfordshire. Looking a bit further in wards where Labour won all seats they are a long way ahead of the LDs, so finding that extra ward or two may be a challenge to take control.. Also Village looks like a very good prospect from the Tories. So @MisterBedfordshire really wasn't that wrong, but there are easily 8 gains there for the taking, 2 from Labour which would make it 29 Lab, 25 LD I think. LDs up from 17. That is based upon split wards and one marginal ward. Haven't looked at other Tory wards which might be vulnerable.
    Libs are fourth in 29 out of 58 of the seats. 27 of them are held by Labour and two Tory.

    The best you could hope for would be a Tory - Libdem - Merton Park Independents coalition with 30 seats to Labours 27.
    But what is wrong in what I said (as amended in my 2nd post). Ian only pointed out it is one to look at. There are potential 8 easy gains for the LDs (5 in split wards and one marginal of 3) taking them to 25, making it neck and neck but with the LDs behind by a few seats. I agree, as I said, after the split ward it is hard to see any other gains from Labour, but you only need one to go pearshaped for whatever reason (corruption, popular local campaigner, local issue, etc) and you are on a knife edge.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 5,800

    nico679 said:


    No party should allow a candidate to stand for a seat if they’ve had a criminal conviction for a violent offense.

    Do you think there should be a ban, written into law?
    If a criminal conviction for a violent offense comes to light after you’ve been elected then you should be forced to stand down and a by election held.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 61,002
    Andrew Sullivan:

    "we also know that, right now, Trump is almost certain to win an Electoral College landslide in November, for the simple reason that he doesn’t have a credible or capable opponent."

    "Two weeks ago, I wrote that the Biden campaign is over. It still is. The attempt these last two weeks to insist that the parrot is not, in fact, dead is Monty Python material."

    "Two weeks ago, I assumed it would be done by now. It truly is the only option available if the Democrats really do want to stop a Trump landslide. The question reverberating in my mind right now is therefore a simple one: Do they?"

    https://andrewsullivan.substack.com/p/wanted-an-american-starmer-099?r=37ywu&triedRedirect=true
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,442
    nico679 said:

    Given he only won by 96 votes it’s pretty clear that the Reform candidate wouldn’t have won Basildon if his conviction had been known before the vote .

    No party should allow a candidate to stand for a seat if they’ve had a criminal conviction for a violent offense.

    Why? I agree the electorate should know, but I am not happy for Govts deciding who can and can not stand. Currently the only reasons we currently have are being too young, in prison and in the Lord's and I'm not too happy about the last two (I'm assuming you can't stand if you can't vote, but I don't know that).
This discussion has been closed.