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It feels like a tipping point has been reached with Biden – politicalbetting.com

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  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,808
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Where Western Europe hasn't yet fully followed the Brits' lead is in our dress sense or skin pallor. Faded, ill fitting and occasionally frayed outfits, with men's shorts designed to show off their radioactive legs. Only Ireland can compete.
    Yes, tho on the other hand we are much funnier and often cheerier

    This Wiki page on obesity by nation really shows the blobbing out of the world. I expected Britain to be in the top 20 or 30

    Nowhere near. We are down at 86. There are literally 85 nations (out of 193) which are even FATTER than the UK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

    Note the Swiss way way down. I;'m not imagining it, nor am I imagining the entire world turning into lardbuckets. I see it everywhere on my travels

    The least obese ten are also intriguing. Either poor African countries with not enough food, or Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan, probably the best food in the world
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_body_mass_index
  • Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Where Western Europe hasn't yet fully followed the Brits' lead is in our dress sense or skin pallor. Faded, ill fitting and occasionally frayed outfits, with men's shorts designed to show off their radioactive legs. Only Ireland can compete.
    Yes, tho on the other hand we are much funnier and often cheerier

    This Wiki page on obesity by nation really shows the blobbing out of the world. I expected Britain to be in the top 20 or 30

    Nowhere near. We are down at 86. There are literally 85 nations (out of 193) which are even FATTER than the UK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

    Note the Swiss way way down. I;'m not imagining it, nor am I imagining the entire world turning into lardbuckets. I see it everywhere on my travels

    The least obese ten are also intriguing. Either poor African countries with not enough food, or Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan, probably the best food in the world
    My understanding is that Japan had a massive public health campaign around obesity over the past 17 years or so.

    What should the UK learn from that?
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I'd be interested to see a distribution. It could be that obesity is down a bit, but overweight is up.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,578
    End of the culture wars update:

    https://x.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1811678649667510588

    I am proud to know I can look every trans family in the eye and say, I fought tooth and nail for the lives of your family. But now that Wes Streeting has made his position clear I think it is time, if you have this choice, to leave the United Kingdom.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059
    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,638

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Where Western Europe hasn't yet fully followed the Brits' lead is in our dress sense or skin pallor. Faded, ill fitting and occasionally frayed outfits, with men's shorts designed to show off their radioactive legs. Only Ireland can compete.
    Yes, tho on the other hand we are much funnier and often cheerier

    This Wiki page on obesity by nation really shows the blobbing out of the world. I expected Britain to be in the top 20 or 30

    Nowhere near. We are down at 86. There are literally 85 nations (out of 193) which are even FATTER than the UK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

    Note the Swiss way way down. I;'m not imagining it, nor am I imagining the entire world turning into lardbuckets. I see it everywhere on my travels

    The least obese ten are also intriguing. Either poor African countries with not enough food, or Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan, probably the best food in the world
    My understanding is that Japan had a massive public health campaign around obesity over the past 17 years or so.

    What should the UK learn from that?
    We had a massive pandemic where being overweight was a disaster for outcomes. The perfect opportunity for a public health campaign.

    But no. Constant articles of "40 year old with no underlying condition taken by COVID". Photo: sedentary overweight chap.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,655
    SKS red Tories rubber stamps the Water Company price rises of 22-43%. and Austerity Reeves dodges the question whether water privatisation was a good thing
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Says the lard arse who had to resort to ozempic
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    Apparently he has attacked other women IRL, and was mouthing off on a weird web site about his plans for Holly. It seems unlikely that he could have succeeded, but plenty seem to think he was planning to try.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Says the lard arse who had to resort to ozempic
    Didn't work. Moving about a lot, that worked

    That said, I think Ozempic works for most
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Taz said:

    Embarrassing from the Windies.

    The West Indies Test team have been absolutely terrible for 10 years now.
    The test team, absolutely. Shocking. Sides like Zimbabwe and Ireland would be competitive against them.

    I was amazed, when looking at the side, how many of them had played only a handful of tests.

    The problem now of course is that if you are really talented you are wasting your time playing team cricket. You can be doing the T20 world tour and everybody knows the Indians are slowly getting to a point where there will be world T20 franchises and they take the same teams from country to country every other month.

    So we are seeing the likes of Will Smeed, Tristian Stubbs, etc, they have no interest in red ball cricket.
    Has anyone told the S African coach as he has picked Stubbs to bat at three in Tests.

    https://www.sabcsport.com/cricket/news/proteas-coach-backing-top-class-tristan-stubbs-to-make-test-number-three-spot-his-own
    Interesting as he signed his big T20 contract and played virtually no red ball cricket (I think FC 15 games in total, and basically no ODI cricket either) his whole career.
    It reminds me a bit of Billings, he played basically none, then they called him up as emergency in Australia. But Rashid, Buttler, Roy, Smeed, Curran brothers, Archer, from down under the likes of Trent Boult, Spencer Johnson, they are all exclusive white ball or heavily biased towards it.
    Of those Rashid, Roy and Tom Curran have essentially failed to make it at test level, so I have no problem with them not playing red ball cricket. Sam Curran is an odd one. He is not fast enough for the Ashes tour, nor tall enough yet he is clearly a talented player. In his case I can see that he doesn't fit the provisional Ashes side, just as Jimmy doesn't.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    End of the culture wars update:

    https://x.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1811678649667510588

    I am proud to know I can look every trans family in the eye and say, I fought tooth and nail for the lives of your family. But now that Wes Streeting has made his position clear I think it is time, if you have this choice, to leave the United Kingdom.

    Go where? Iran? They are quite pro trans but that's coz they murder gays so they prefer trans

    Maugham is an utter knob
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Embarrassing from the Windies.

    The West Indies Test team have been absolutely terrible for 10 years now.
    The test team, absolutely. Shocking. Sides like Zimbabwe and Ireland would be competitive against them.

    I was amazed, when looking at the side, how many of them had played only a handful of tests.

    The problem now of course is that if you are really talented you are wasting your time playing team cricket. You can be doing the T20 world tour and everybody knows the Indians are slowly getting to a point where there will be world T20 franchises and they take the same teams from country to country every other month.

    So we are seeing the likes of Will Smeed, Tristian Stubbs, etc, they have no interest in red ball cricket.
    Yes and no to this. For England, Aussie and a few of the other nations, most players still regard test cricket as the ultimate gold standard. Yes you can get very rich player hit and giggle all the time, but the true greats of cricket will remain test cricketers.

    We will see. The money is eyewatering to play T20. Is for instance Sam Curran playing any red ball this summer? Archer isn't.
    Archer has had historic injury troubles, and I can see why he would want to make the most of any fit time he has.

    I cannot see test cricket dying, as some fear. Some of the smaller nations want in, such as Ireland etc.

    I may be clouded in my judgement because I have very little time for T20.
    I am not saying it will die, but I think if you look you will see that many well known players in T20 now play very little red ball cricket. And the Indians have made it clear their vision is a world tour of T20. Have a look at the line-ups for MLS, its wall to wall talent. Even the likes of Pat Cummins, Steve Smith, who are elite test cricketers are playing that rather than traditionally they might play county cricket and they certainly aren't playing the Hundred.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Major_League_Cricket_season

    And we are starting to see the signs with the likes of Stubbs that the Indians are saying here is a boat load of money not mess about with red ball.

    The other thing is that switching between T20 and test is really hard. Bairstow has found that out. Buttler gave up red ball for similar reasons.
    Test cricket won't quite die but it will become a bizarre elite sport, like real tennis or dressage, and the only version anyone will watch will be the Ashes

    It's really sad. I hope I am wrong
    The question is how do you get to be an elite red ball player. What we are increasingly finding is basically you get chucked in and suck it and see. Bashir isn't even first choice for his county, hardly played any red ball and is getting picked for England. Gus Atkinson has played only about 20 FC games and is 26 year old and will now opening the attack for England.
    There is an element of finding the right character to fit the side about these kind of selections. Like Southgate has emphasized building a club team that happens to be the national side. I think McCullum has been doing similar with the test team.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    That would be a huge experiment, far worse than the covid vaccines. These drugs do have side effects - for one you have no appetite (arguably thats the effect you want) but it means you lose any desire for food. Is that waht we want?

    I'd rather make better efforts to drive out processed food. Thats the true evil in the war on obesity.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546
    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    Most of Staffordshire is okay, it's just places like Stoke-on-Trent that aren't.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    My impression is they have been becoming slightly less obese since Covid-19. Could be a wrong impression.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,115
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I agree with Leon. This is typical PB whoppery flappery.

    The wiki list shows UK obesity rate down from 27% in 2016 to 20% in 2024. Rank 35 to rank 85 approx.

    The NHS has been running quite extensive and effective anti-obesity programmes for a decade or so., in addition to more regular and reliably carried out regular checks. Go and talk to some of your pre-diabetic friends who have perhaps benefited. I've pointed out the effectiveness of these programmes before. The NHS is good at public health things.

    For diabetic people, who perhaps are more vulnerable to this due to insulin treatment and other factors, there has been a gradual sea change in treatment options and effectiveness over perhaps 2 decades.

    The data is that the NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme reduces the numbers of pre-diabetic people who get Type II diabetes by 20%.

    It may be helped a little by relative death rates during COVID, and an extra 3 million or so pet dogs in the country that now all need walking.

    I predict that the PB flappers will now go a hunt to find something wrong with the data.

    :smile:
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Says the lard arse who had to resort to ozempic
    Didn't work. Moving about a lot, that worked

    That said, I think Ozempic works for most
    Eating right and moving more works for most.

    The problem is what is "eating right"?

    For me eating right has been eating more meat and eliminating carbs from my diet, for other people other things work. You need to find what works for you.

    Having meat and other unprocessed whole food ingredients be more affordable makes it more likely for people to be able to eat well. As well as finding something that works for you timewise.

    For me my best discovery of the past year has been cooking steaks in the air fryer. Easy and comes out gorgeous. Now I eat air fried steak once a twice a day on average, but eating steak daily isn't affordable in many people's eyes . . . though it costs a hell of a lot less than buying a McDonalds or ordering from JustEat and is easier than travelling there too.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    edited July 12
    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,197
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,507
    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,115

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Where Western Europe hasn't yet fully followed the Brits' lead is in our dress sense or skin pallor. Faded, ill fitting and occasionally frayed outfits, with men's shorts designed to show off their radioactive legs. Only Ireland can compete.
    Yes, tho on the other hand we are much funnier and often cheerier

    This Wiki page on obesity by nation really shows the blobbing out of the world. I expected Britain to be in the top 20 or 30

    Nowhere near. We are down at 86. There are literally 85 nations (out of 193) which are even FATTER than the UK

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_obesity_rate

    Note the Swiss way way down. I;'m not imagining it, nor am I imagining the entire world turning into lardbuckets. I see it everywhere on my travels

    The least obese ten are also intriguing. Either poor African countries with not enough food, or Vietnam, Cambodia, and Japan, probably the best food in the world
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_by_body_mass_index
    That's 2014 data - 10 years old, which approximately matches the 2016 dataset from Leon's link.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    There is multiple conflcting data, as I said in my comment, and that's not surprising when we have such a rapidly changing population. Hard to measure. You can pluck stats that support almost any argument. I imagine a lot of people coming to the UK are slimmer than the UK average. Fat people sink boats

    Here is data showing childhood obesity edging down


    https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2023/latest-figures-show-drop-in-obesity-rates-among-primary-school-children-statistical-press-release
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059
    Leon said:

    End of the culture wars update:

    https://x.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1811678649667510588

    I am proud to know I can look every trans family in the eye and say, I fought tooth and nail for the lives of your family. But now that Wes Streeting has made his position clear I think it is time, if you have this choice, to leave the United Kingdom.

    Go where? Iran? They are quite pro trans but that's coz they murder gays so they prefer trans

    Maugham is an utter knob
    Well, you did ask... :)

    Using permit of self-ID as a proxy for juvenile use of puberty-blockers for trans purposes, in Europe that would be Belgium, Denmark, France*, Finland, Greece*, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland. From memory, Germany just bought in something but I'm not looking it up. PBer's with long memories and a sense of humour may recall @MaxPB's desire to relocate to Switzerland to avoid self-ID...just before it bought it in.

    In South America, on the same read-across, that would be Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador and Uruguay

    Australia and NZ may also do so.

    As for North America, USA, Canada, and Mexico are federations and legality will vary from state to state. In the specific case of the United States, the trans blogger and journalist Erin Reed ("trans activist" in British English) does maps of trans law by state (www.erininthemorning.com) and it seems to fall by political allegiance: indeed, I thought of using it as an election predictor (TLDR: Biden loses) before his senility rendered it moot.

    Please note that this is a rushed list bought in using self-ID as a proxy, rather than an exact list, and will therefore be wrong. As I am doing this in work time I am buggered if I'm searching for the exact subject and frankly you're lucky you are getting this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,115
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I agree with Leon. This is typical PB whoppery flappery.

    The wiki list shows UK obesity rate down from 27% in 2016 to 20% in 2024. Rank 35 to rank 85 approx.

    The NHS has been running quite extensive and effective anti-obesity programmes for a decade or so., in addition to more regular and reliably carried out regular checks. Go and talk to some of your pre-diabetic friends who have perhaps benefited. I've pointed out the effectiveness of these programmes before. The NHS is good at public health things.

    For diabetic people, who perhaps are more vulnerable to this due to insulin treatment and other factors, there has been a gradual sea change in treatment options and effectiveness over perhaps 2 decades.

    The data is that the NHS Diabetes Prevention Programme reduces the numbers of pre-diabetic people who get Type II diabetes by 20%.

    It may be helped a little by relative death rates during COVID, and an extra 3 million or so pet dogs in the country that now all need walking.

    I predict that the PB flappers will now go a hunt to find something wrong with the data.

    :smile:
    Of course I could be wrong !
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    There is multiple conflcting data, as I said in my comment, and that's not surprising when we have such a rapidly changing population. Hard to measure. You can pluck stats that support almost any argument. I imagine a lot of people coming to the UK are slimmer than the UK average. Fat people sink boats

    Here is data showing childhood obesity edging down


    https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2023/latest-figures-show-drop-in-obesity-rates-among-primary-school-children-statistical-press-release
    Yeah, but that is children not adults.

    And obesity rates are higher in ethnic minorities, not lower.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    One reason Biden is hanging on is that the Democrats don't have a much of a bench. For example, ordinarily a California governor would be an obvious candidate for president, but the current one, Gavin Newsom, has his problems: https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2024/07/12
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    That would be a huge experiment, far worse than the covid vaccines. These drugs do have side effects - for one you have no appetite (arguably thats the effect you want) but it means you lose any desire for food. Is that waht we want?

    I'd rather make better efforts to drive out processed food. Thats the true evil in the war on obesity.
    For people with life or health treatening obesity, and that - unfortunately - is a lot of people in Britain (and the world) I am sure the benefits far outweight the risks. If you're just a bit lardy, fine, but if you are gravely risking a heart attack or diabetes - then put them on the Zempic
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,507

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
    I think that was Viewcode's point. He is positive about their being some limits on the power of Supra-national individuals/businesses.

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Andy_JS said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    I think nose rings look ugly.
    When you sneeze or blow your nose they must get covered in snot. Lovely.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,808
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    That would be a huge experiment, far worse than the covid vaccines. These drugs do have side effects - for one you have no appetite (arguably thats the effect you want) but it means you lose any desire for food. Is that waht we want?

    I'd rather make better efforts to drive out processed food. Thats the true evil in the war on obesity.
    For people with life or health treatening obesity, and that - unfortunately - is a lot of people in Britain (and the world) I am sure the benefits far outweight the risks. If you're just a bit lardy, fine, but if you are gravely risking a heart attack or diabetes - then put them on the Zempic
    Phew. Leon has sensed it. Saves the needs for clinical trials, not to mention speeding up health outcomes for us all.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    edited July 12
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    There is multiple conflcting data, as I said in my comment, and that's not surprising when we have such a rapidly changing population. Hard to measure. You can pluck stats that support almost any argument. I imagine a lot of people coming to the UK are slimmer than the UK average. Fat people sink boats

    Here is data showing childhood obesity edging down


    https://digital.nhs.uk/news/2023/latest-figures-show-drop-in-obesity-rates-among-primary-school-children-statistical-press-release
    Yeah, but that is children not adults.

    And obesity rates are higher in ethnic minorities, not lower.
    SOME ethnic minorities. For a supposed scientist you do make absurd sweeping statements, but then you are only a provincial quack, not exactly Louis Pasteur, so we can forgive you

    eg A lot of migration to the UK in recent years has been from China, mainly students? The Chinese are some of the slimmest people in the world
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,115
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,507
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    End of the culture wars update:

    https://x.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1811678649667510588

    I am proud to know I can look every trans family in the eye and say, I fought tooth and nail for the lives of your family. But now that Wes Streeting has made his position clear I think it is time, if you have this choice, to leave the United Kingdom.

    Go where? Iran? They are quite pro trans but that's coz they murder gays so they prefer trans

    Maugham is an utter knob
    Well, you did ask... :)

    Using permit of self-ID as a proxy for juvenile use of puberty-blockers for trans purposes, in Europe that would be Belgium, Denmark, France*, Finland, Greece*, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland. From memory, Germany just bought in something but I'm not looking it up. PBer's with long memories and a sense of humour may recall @MaxPB's desire to relocate to Switzerland to avoid self-ID...just before it bought it in.

    In South America, on the same read-across, that would be Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador and Uruguay

    Australia and NZ may also do so.

    As for North America, USA, Canada, and Mexico are federations and legality will vary from state to state. In the specific case of the United States, the trans blogger and journalist Erin Reed ("trans activist" in British English) does maps of trans law by state (www.erininthemorning.com) and it seems to fall by political allegiance: indeed, I thought of using it as an election predictor (TLDR: Biden loses) before his senility rendered it moot.

    Please note that this is a rushed list bought in using self-ID as a proxy, rather than an exact list, and will therefore be wrong. As I am doing this in work time I am buggered if I'm searching for the exact subject and frankly you're lucky you are getting this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification
    I am not sure how accurate it would be to equate self-ID with the use of puberty blockers. I can imagine at least some of those countries being happy with the basic premise of self-ID whilst being more reserved about the use of chemicals in children.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    My impression is they have been becoming slightly less obese since Covid-19. Could be a wrong impression.
    That's because with WFH the really obese people don't need to leave home any more. So you don't see them out and about.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,485

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    That would be a huge experiment, far worse than the covid vaccines. These drugs do have side effects - for one you have no appetite (arguably thats the effect you want) but it means you lose any desire for food. Is that waht we want?

    I'd rather make better efforts to drive out processed food. Thats the true evil in the war on obesity.
    For people with life or health treatening obesity, and that - unfortunately - is a lot of people in Britain (and the world) I am sure the benefits far outweight the risks. If you're just a bit lardy, fine, but if you are gravely risking a heart attack or diabetes - then put them on the Zempic
    Phew. Leon has sensed it. Saves the needs for clinical trials, not to mention speeding up health outcomes for us all.
    Yup. And I'm glad this is finally being acknowledged

    Basically I should run the entire UK from my study here in Oppede Le Vieux,.in betwen knapping flints and eating Cavaillon melons, and I would do a far better job than HMG
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    My impression is they have been becoming slightly less obese since Covid-19. Could be a wrong impression.
    That's because with WFH the really obese people don't need to leave home any more. So you don't see them out and about.
    Just Eat may be playing a bigger role than WFH.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846

    One reason Biden is hanging on is that the Democrats don't have a much of a bench. For example, ordinarily a California governor would be an obvious candidate for president, but the current one, Gavin Newsom, has his problems: https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2024/07/12

    tbh I got the impression the recent Biden Out campaign had been started by friends of Newsom.

    Anyway, the reason President Biden is tired is he has been watching the football, as he told our Prime Minister.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VR6KmbxE8H4
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    New poll to help Joe out !

    Political Polls
    @PpollingNumbers
    #New General Election Poll

    🔵 Biden 47% (+1)
    🔴 Trump 46%

    Data for progress #C+ - 2067 LV - 7/3
  • EPG said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    EPG said:

    Andy_JS said:

    The reason Americans are feeling poor is not just because inflation is not keeping up with wages but because inflation is not keeping up with inflation.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/02/business/inflation-worse-pandemic-coronavirus.html


    And that is before you get into the issue of the methodology changes since 1990 which have, according to some widely quoted sources resulted in US CPI being significantly lower (like half the amount it would have been) if the methodology had remained unchanged.

    Just a 1% difference compounded over 20 years on pay, benefits and pensions would have supressed all three significantly on such a timescale.

    https://www.investopedia.com/articles/07/consumerpriceindex.asp

    Interesting. Are our inflation figures probably more reliable?
    I have not seen any major complaints about methodology in the UK, however the big one was the government changing from RPI to CPI for pensions and benefits since 2011 (with most employers following suit for pay rises)

    CPI strips out the t tends to track higher than the CPI because it includes interest rates on mortgages and rental inflation.

    As rent prices have been rather increasing in recent years, along with, more recently interest rates, this is very significant.

    The Bank of England Inflation Calculator uses CPI post 1988. This states that £10 in is equivalent of £14.34 as of May 24.

    Hargreaves Lansdowne's inflation calculator uses RPI. This states that £10 in April 2010 is equivalent of £17 now.

    That is not a minor difference.

    https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator.

    https://www.hl.co.uk/tools/calculators/inflation-calculator
    And they both exclude house prices.

    Include housing and inflation this century has been well above what people pretend it is.

    But if you've paid off your mortgage and have no housing costs then CPI is pretty accurate.
    The problem is what to do when house prices go up and interest rates go down - and this happens a lot, arguably it's a natural financial situation for this to be the case (or vice versa). CPI ignores both, RPI said it costs less, nobody says it costs more. The even trickier part is how to do the quality adjustment that says, you pay more, but your house is better because it's insulated or simply more desirable than it used to be.
    If the cost of houses has gone up then that is inflation. That neither do is why neither is appropriate or measures inflation accurately.

    Finance should not be part of inflation.

    If the interest rate on credit cards goes down then we don't say that your weekly shop has become cheaper, despite the fact many people can and do put their regular shopping on credit.
    If share prices go up, that's not inflation. Same with house prices. But if you're paying more for your house month on month, that should ideally be in an inflation measure. However, it may be tricky to measure, because some of housing investment is that pure asset portfolio, savings, investment choice. Different countries take different approaches, few go so far as to exclude housing costs.
    Nobody needs to buy shares, people do need a roof above their head.

    Inflation measures what it costs to buy something. If it costs you more to buy a home, of course that is inflation!

    Too many people can't afford to buy a home because the prices have risen so much. And despite what some people pretend, it is not all put on finance. Saving a 10% deposit when houses cost 2x income is close to 2 months salary, doing so when they cost 10x income is nearly a years salary.
    It's not as simple as inflation being the cost of buying something, because few people buy a house in a given month, and almost nobody then goes and buys another like-for-like house next month to permit a comparison. However, we can measure the cost of paying for the same housing services in monthly rents or mortgage payments. And so that approach is what statistical agencies tend to do.
    Inflation is the cost of buying something, finance is the cost of financing it, but we incorrectly treat houses as an asset rather than a cost that needs paying for.

    Few people buy a TV or car or bike in any given month, and almost nobody then goes and buys like-for-like another TV or car or bike next month. Which is why we use a weighted average for what proportion of spending goes on different goods but despite housing being the number one expenditure in this country, exceeding even food, we incorrectly exclude it from the inflation data and then pretend inflation is low then wonder why people can't afford somewhere to live after a period of so-called low inflation.
    Housing is both an asset and a service bearing a cost. This makes modelling its cost tricky. Housing expenditure, in mortgage costs, went up hugely since 2022. House prices did not go up that much. Which, if either, is appropriate to use? Before we even think about the share of the price that remains as a durable asset on the household's balance sheet.

    The difference with cars or bikes is that the CPI people do genuinely go out and look at the same pint of milk in the same type of shop from month to month. With housing, this wouldn't work - the only possible use case would be new builds, and they probably go for the same price month-on-month for marketing reasons even when price levels are rising. So you would be relying on house price models which have their own assumptions baked in.
    The price of purchase is the appropriate cost to use.

    That is what inflation measures, the cost of purchasing.

    If you buy a bike then the cost of the bike is the input data to inflation stats, not how much you pay monthly to Klarna or Barclaycard or however else you've financed your bike.

    Its the same with houses, your mortgage costs is the cost of finance, not the cost of purchase. It is the people who buy in a particular month who are the purchasers, same as with any other good.

    CPI doesn't just include milk, it includes costs for cars (both new and used), TVs, bikes and more. Housing should be in the mix too.
    Yes both of purchase and rental price for a "bog standard" 3 bed house.
    I almost agree with you.

    What standard is included for cars, bikes and TVs? I believe its a weighted sample, not a "bog standard" - houses should be the same.

    I'd include the purchase and rental price of a weighted sample of houses, weighted in the inflation basket to whatever proportion of national expenditure goes on those costs.
    Agreed. Good refinement of the point.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    One reason Biden is hanging on is that the Democrats don't have a much of a bench. For example, ordinarily a California governor would be an obvious candidate for president, but the current one, Gavin Newsom, has his problems: https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2024/07/12

    tbh I got the impression the recent Biden Out campaign had been started by friends of Newsom.

    Anyway, the reason President Biden is tired is he has been watching the football, as he told our Prime Minister.
    https://www.youtube.com/shorts/VR6KmbxE8H4
    Be fair, factoring in the timezone differences they've been kicking off at 3pm their time. If it goes to penalties then that's ending after 5pm in Washington DC.

    That's after Biden's bedtime.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    That said, it is amazing how quickly nations can get fat

    China IS slim, much slimmer than us, but obesity is exploding in cities (fast food) and amongst the young (lazy kids)

    And Hong Kong shows where that ends, they are blobtastic. And they have great cuisine. Tsk


    "Among Hongkongers aged between 15 and 84, 32.6 percent of them are obese, 22 percent of them are overweight and 37.8 percent were classified as centrally obese, according to the Population Health Survey 2020-22 conducted by the Department of Health."

    https://www.thestandard.com.hk/breaking-news/section/4/214002/Over-half-of-HK-population-is-overweight-or-obese#:~:text=Among Hongkongers aged between 15,by the Department of Health.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Says the lard arse who had to resort to ozempic
    Didn't work. Moving about a lot, that worked

    That said, I think Ozempic works for most
    Eating right and moving more works for most.

    The problem is what is "eating right"?

    For me eating right has been eating more meat and eliminating carbs from my diet, for other people other things work. You need to find what works for you.

    Having meat and other unprocessed whole food ingredients be more affordable makes it more likely for people to be able to eat well. As well as finding something that works for you timewise.

    For me my best discovery of the past year has been cooking steaks in the air fryer. Easy and comes out gorgeous. Now I eat air fried steak once a twice a day on average, but eating steak daily isn't affordable in many people's eyes . . . though it costs a hell of a lot less than buying a McDonalds or ordering from JustEat and is easier than travelling there too.
    Sounds like excessive haem iron in your diet ?
    Probably not great for long term health.
  • boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    Ha! True. Those ads were a bit nauseating.
    Nicole??? Papa???

    Sorry wrong advert
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,575
    edited July 12

    Taz said:

    Embarrassing from the Windies.

    The West Indies Test team have been absolutely terrible for 10 years now.
    The test team, absolutely. Shocking. Sides like Zimbabwe and Ireland would be competitive against them.

    I was amazed, when looking at the side, how many of them had played only a handful of tests.

    The problem now of course is that if you are really talented you are wasting your time playing team cricket. You can be doing the T20 world tour and everybody knows the Indians are slowly getting to a point where there will be world T20 franchises and they take the same teams from country to country every other month.

    So we are seeing the likes of Will Smeed, Tristian Stubbs, etc, they have no interest in red ball cricket.
    Yes and no to this. For England, Aussie and a few of the other nations, most players still regard test cricket as the ultimate gold standard. Yes you can get very rich player hit and giggle all the time, but the true greats of cricket will remain test cricketers.

    We will see. The money is eyewatering to play T20. Is for instance Sam Curran playing any red ball this summer? Archer isn't.
    Archer has had historic injury troubles, and I can see why he would want to make the most of any fit time he has.

    I cannot see test cricket dying, as some fear. Some of the smaller nations want in, such as Ireland etc.

    I may be clouded in my judgement because I have very little time for T20.
    I am not saying it will die, but I think if you look you will see that many well known players in T20 now play very little red ball cricket. And the Indians have made it clear their vision is a world tour of T20. Have a look at the line-ups for MLS, its wall to wall talent. Even the likes of Pat Cummins, Steve Smith, who are elite test cricketers are playing that rather than traditionally they might play county cricket and they certainly aren't playing the Hundred.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024_Major_League_Cricket_season

    And we are starting to see the signs with the likes of Stubbs that the Indians are saying here is a boat load of money not mess about with red ball.

    The other thing is that switching between T20 and test is really hard. Bairstow has found that out. Buttler gave up red ball for similar reasons.
    The Indian master plan is to have their franchises tour the world, going to the Southern Hemisphere and the Middle East in winter.

    Imagine if the football Premier League decided to play in Australia now, and it was up to the players if they wanted to do that or be in the Euros.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,615
    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy?
    Wikipedia and Leon being wrong, not surprisingly.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059
    edited July 12

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
    I think that was Viewcode's point. He is positive about their being some limits on the power of Supra-national individuals/businesses.

    Broadly yes. The Westphalian sovereign nation-state is a comparatively recent invention that reached its fruition in the 19th and 20th centuries, especially around WWI and WWII (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Aj9mXivv8) Previously we were tribes, kingdoms and empires. We seem to be reverting back to the age of the strong man and the untrammelled predatory transnational organisation, and that can't be good... :(
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,031
    edited July 12

    One reason Biden is hanging on is that the Democrats don't have a much of a bench. For example, ordinarily a California governor would be an obvious candidate for president, but the current one, Gavin Newsom, has his problems: https://www.gocomics.com/michaelramirez/2024/07/12

    Harris herself; Whitmer; Buttigieg; Ossoff; Cooper; etc.
    The GOP bench is, in contrast, packed with educationally backward school kids.

    The reason Biden's hanging on is that most first term incumbents do. As has been obvious for about a year.
    He's just too old, and it's probably the biggest mistake of his political career.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Acting as the bankers for both sides in a war does tend to be profitable.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    End of the culture wars update:

    https://x.com/jolyonmaugham/status/1811678649667510588

    I am proud to know I can look every trans family in the eye and say, I fought tooth and nail for the lives of your family. But now that Wes Streeting has made his position clear I think it is time, if you have this choice, to leave the United Kingdom.

    Go where? Iran? They are quite pro trans but that's coz they murder gays so they prefer trans

    Maugham is an utter knob
    Well, you did ask... :)

    Using permit of self-ID as a proxy for juvenile use of puberty-blockers for trans purposes, in Europe that would be Belgium, Denmark, France*, Finland, Greece*, Iceland, Ireland, Luxembourg, Malta, Norway, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland. From memory, Germany just bought in something but I'm not looking it up. PBer's with long memories and a sense of humour may recall @MaxPB's desire to relocate to Switzerland to avoid self-ID...just before it bought it in.

    In South America, on the same read-across, that would be Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Ecuador and Uruguay

    Australia and NZ may also do so.

    As for North America, USA, Canada, and Mexico are federations and legality will vary from state to state. In the specific case of the United States, the trans blogger and journalist Erin Reed ("trans activist" in British English) does maps of trans law by state (www.erininthemorning.com) and it seems to fall by political allegiance: indeed, I thought of using it as an election predictor (TLDR: Biden loses) before his senility rendered it moot.

    Please note that this is a rushed list bought in using self-ID as a proxy, rather than an exact list, and will therefore be wrong. As I am doing this in work time I am buggered if I'm searching for the exact subject and frankly you're lucky you are getting this.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_self-identification
    I am not sure how accurate it would be to equate self-ID with the use of puberty blockers. I can imagine at least some of those countries being happy with the basic premise of self-ID whilst being more reserved about the use of chemicals in children.
    I'm not happy about it either (hence "Please note that this is a rushed list bought in using self-ID as a proxy, rather than an exact list, and will therefore be wrong"). But given the circs it was the best I could do.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy?
    Wikipedia and Leon being wrong, not surprisingly.
    Mate, you're a GP in LEICESTER

    And you're arguing with Wikipedia and LEON

    lol
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    kamski said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    You should have heard Schweinsteiger live from the stadium on the "schöne englische Oberkörper" surrounding his commentary box
    What has struck me during this tournament is how the German and Dutch fans now look as fat and pasty as the English
    I've noticed a gradual levelling down in that respect, but notably nobody is arguing that the English fans are svelte and handsome. So the journalist does have a bit of a point.
    The whole world is getting fat. I see it everywhere (even in France - in the young, less so in the middle aged and old)

    America went first but now it is near-universal. Places like Egypt or Mexico make Britain look slim
    Says the lard arse who had to resort to ozempic
    Didn't work. Moving about a lot, that worked

    That said, I think Ozempic works for most
    Eating right and moving more works for most.

    The problem is what is "eating right"?

    For me eating right has been eating more meat and eliminating carbs from my diet, for other people other things work. You need to find what works for you.

    Having meat and other unprocessed whole food ingredients be more affordable makes it more likely for people to be able to eat well. As well as finding something that works for you timewise.

    For me my best discovery of the past year has been cooking steaks in the air fryer. Easy and comes out gorgeous. Now I eat air fried steak once a twice a day on average, but eating steak daily isn't affordable in many people's eyes . . . though it costs a hell of a lot less than buying a McDonalds or ordering from JustEat and is easier than travelling there too.
    Sounds like excessive haem iron in your diet ?
    Probably not great for long term health.
    I don't believe its excessive so long as you're not taking iron supplements or blood transfusions.

    Certainly I've been for blood tests recently and iron was explicitly tested and it was in the healthy range.

    One thing I'm glad to see is that the NHS is moving on from its obsession with "five a day" and high carb diets, keeping up with the developing science. The NHS is becoming much more accepting of ketogenic and other diets as being healthy ones, which is a very good thing. Even if some, with all due respect like our own resident doctor, need to catch up with the times.

    Shame the supermarkets are even further behind in the times though, still treating "low fat" as a healthy thing, rather than unhealthy and low carb being healthier.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy?
    Wikipedia and Leon being wrong, not surprisingly.
    Mate, you're a GP in LEICESTER

    And you're arguing with Wikipedia and LEON

    lol
    Errors in that post suggest that LEON should not be an authority on truth...
  • TazTaz Posts: 14,361
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.
    Yes. London looks svelte and young. And then you go to South Wales or Staffordshire

    I don;t udnerstand why the NHS isn't buying up trillions of doses of Ozempic and simply handing them out. Obesity is a national killer on a profound scale. and we have a cure! Just dish it out for free, it will be expensive but in the end the gains - financial, mental, social - will FAR outweight the costs
    Most of Staffordshire is okay, it's just places like Stoke-on-Trent that aren't.
    Many years ago I used to work in Cannock. It’s lovely round there.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    MattW said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Another fascinating data point in that Wiki page. It implies British obesity is DECLINING

    Now, it is easy to find data that flatly contradicts this, but anecdotally, I suspect this might be true. Brits seem a bit less fat to me. The young look a bit healthier. They don't drink as much, obvs. Less smoking

    I am afraid that is not true according to official government statistics, indeed obesity and overweight continue to rise.

    https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/update-to-the-obesity-profile-on-fingertips/obesity-profile-short-statistical-commentary-may-2024

    At 21% obese, your wikipedia page is wrong, we are over 27%.. Assuming the other countries are not wrong, we would be in the forties not 86th.
    I wonder what accounts for the discrepancy?
    Wikipedia and Leon being wrong, not surprisingly.
    Mate, you're a GP in LEICESTER

    And you're arguing with Wikipedia and LEON

    lol
    Errors in that post suggest that LEON should not be an authority on truth...
    That's only because I sometimes go BEYOND truth, into an even higher realm

    Like Nietzsche, I am "above the treeline". I have such an amazingly rich perspective from my storied life, and naturally profound intellect, it is like I am gazing across the snowy peaks, and you are all bleating sheep down in the valleys. I sometimes wonder if I am not quite normal, but in a good way

    That's why I can see stuff coming decades down the line, even as PB gets its head stuck in a fence. AGAIN
  • Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Acting as the bankers for both sides in a war does tend to be profitable.
    As does being comprised mainly of exceptionally difficult to invade steep mountain ranges.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited July 12
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
    I think that was Viewcode's point. He is positive about their being some limits on the power of Supra-national individuals/businesses.

    Broadly yes. The Westphalian sovereign nation-state is a comparatively recent invention that reached its fruition in the 19th and 20th centuries, especially around WWI and WWII (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Aj9mXivv8) Previously we were tribes, kingdoms and empires. We seem to be reverting back to the age of the strong man and the untrammelled predatory transnational organisation, and that can't be good... :(
    England stopped being a nation state and became an empire at Brexit 1 in 1536 and stopped being an empire in 1973 (reinforced in 1998)

    An empire is subject to oversight by no one, a nation state is sovereign in many regards but can be overruled by outsiders whether that be the Pope vetoing an act of parliament or the European Court of Human Wrongs (pox be upon it).
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,546

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
    I think that was Viewcode's point. He is positive about their being some limits on the power of Supra-national individuals/businesses.
    Yeah, I realised that. I was just reinforcing the point.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 794

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097
    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Acting as the bankers for both sides in a war does tend to be profitable.
    There needs to be a different word for the wealthy Genevois. Bourgeoisie is too modest and catch-all. But they are not plutocrats, quite, not least because Plutocrats exercise political power whereas the Swiss Patek Philippe wearers leave that to the officials. Nor are they upper class in its traditional sense. The French use haute-bourgeoisie which is pretty similar to our upper middle class, and that is probably the closest we can get.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,228
    Right. Aux Iles Sur La Sorgue!

  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,392
    edited July 12

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    And all the more potent then! The more times you dilute it, and say the magic incantation, the more powerful the homeopathic remedy becomes...
  • theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    I'm beginning to wonder whether keeping him at taxpayers expense at £30,000 a year or whatever is good value for money.

    Sounds more like a case for Care in the Community.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,414

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    It’s a very long time since I actually ran a pharmacy, but I don’t recall ever actually selling any!
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 794

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    I'm beginning to wonder whether keeping him at taxpayers expense at £30,000 a year or whatever is good value for money.

    Sounds more like a case for Care in the Community.
    If it weren't for his previous I'd agree. But his previous shows he *will* try if he actually can. As it is the only thing that has stopped him appears to have been being a complete loser.

    Not saying prison is definitely the best place but he needs some sort of 24/7 supervision and I suspect a mental hospital is more expensive.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Sandpit said:

    Absolutely ridiculous from the EU:

    https://x.com/thierrybreton/status/1811699711591489637

    Back in the day, #BlueChecks used to mean trustworthy sources of information✔️🐦

    Now with X, our preliminary view is that:

    ❌They deceive users

    ❌They infrige #DSA

    X has now the right of defence —but if our view is confirmed we will impose fines & require significant changes.

    LOL. X will just close all of their EU-based offices - perhaps relocate to London - and dare the EU to actually try and block their website.
    Why LOL? The EU have form for this. They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. They have form for this and (unlike the UK) do not suck the root of any passing billionaire citizen of nowhere.

    Your email demonstrates something I've been banging on about for some time. You find it incomprehensible that a nation state (or in the EU's case, a supranational near-state) should stand up to and regulate the incredibly wealthy non-state actors. But if they do not, who will? Who should? Should power rest in the sovereign nation-state or the untethered individual? To whom does Musk - a South African resident in the United States with a near-monopoly on international communications, his own space fleet, armoured cars, flame throwers and (soon) robotic force - answer to?

    British governments increasingly do not care about the British people, and I think Goodwin's accusation of a uniparty is essentially correct. This is why I took no joy in Labour's victory as we swapped one set of authoritarians for another. But here's somebody who also has something to say about global power in the 21st century

    https://www.ted.com/talks/ian_bremmer_the_next_global_superpower_isn_t_who_you_think?subtitle=en&trigger=5s
    "They forced Microsoft to unbundle their browser from their operating system, they forced EU roaming, they forced (IIRC) standard chargers. "

    All positive things IMO. ;)

    (Add in preserving the frequency spectrum for cellular phones, which gave European - and British - companies a massive advantage in the late 1980s and 1990s. Standards matter...)
    I think that was Viewcode's point. He is positive about their being some limits on the power of Supra-national individuals/businesses.

    Broadly yes. The Westphalian sovereign nation-state is a comparatively recent invention that reached its fruition in the 19th and 20th centuries, especially around WWI and WWII (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8Aj9mXivv8) Previously we were tribes, kingdoms and empires. We seem to be reverting back to the age of the strong man and the untrammelled predatory transnational organisation, and that can't be good... :(
    England stopped being a nation state and became an empire at Brexit 1 in 1536 and stopped being an empire in 1973 (reinforced in 1998)

    An empire is subject to oversight by no one, a nation state is sovereign in many regards but can be overruled by outsiders whether that be the Pope vetoing an act of parliament or the European Court of Human Wrongs (pox be upon it).
    A nation-state can only be overruled by constraints it puts on itself or by violence from others.

    As for the date of the end of the British Empire, I'd go with the immigration acts of 1962, 1968 and 1971. They converted the "us" from hundreds of millions around the globe to tens of millions within the bounded UK. Given that the Immigration Act 1971 came into effect on 1 Jan 1973, I find myself in the strange position of agreeing with you. :confused:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Immigrants_Act_1962
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commonwealth_Immigrants_Act_1968
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_Act_1971
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,160

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    I'm beginning to wonder whether keeping him at taxpayers expense at £30,000 a year or whatever is good value for money.

    Sounds more like a case for Care in the Community.
    If it was in isolation, probably - but given he tied up 2 16 yr old girls in a shop storeroom we're better off with him inside.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,540
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    Are you not a fan of Phil's music?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,578
    https://news.gallup.com/poll/647123/sharply-americans-curb-immigration.aspx

    Significantly more U.S. adults than a year ago, 55% versus 41%, would like to see immigration to the U.S. decreased. This is the first time since 2005 that a majority of Americans have wanted there to be less immigration, and today’s figure is the largest percentage holding that view since a 58% reading in 2001.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,678

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    It’s a very long time since I actually ran a pharmacy, but I don’t recall ever actually selling any!
    Is it true that chloroform doesn't work like it does in the movies? That is someone won't immediately become unconscious for several hours if you put a few drops on a hanky and press it against their nose.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,601

    NEW THREAD

  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,720

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    And all the more potent then! The more times you dilute it, and say the magic incantation, the more powerful the homeopathic remedy becomes...
    But, under homeopathic theory* of 'like cures like', wouldn't homeopathic chloroform be a potent antidote for actual chloroform and/or unconsciousness?

    *used loosely!
  • kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    It's all tied in with a deal to play his music at the Dignitas clinics
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,987
    Leon said:

    Right. Aux Iles Sur La Sorgue!

    The small towns north of there towards the Dentelles de Montmirail are also worth a stopover, and will be a bit less touristy. There are a couple of good restaurants in Caromb next to the church as I recall.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,846

    theProle said:

    Phil said:

    We need Banks-style slap drones:

    “Gavin Plumb could have been stopped sooner, says survivor” https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ngd4e7dmpo

    The irony is that Plumb was convicted and imprisoned for what was basically a thought crime, and escaped scot-free for actual kidnap attempts. Quite what that says about our justice system...
    That they take much more interest if "one of us" is the intended victim?
    Having not followed this trial beyond the headlines - did this guy look like he had a credible plan to actually abduct her, or had he just been getting off on some bizarre dirty fantasies he was writing about how he might abduct her?
    The judge in his suming up said that the plan was unlikely to have succeeded but it is clear he intended to try and had been planning it for several years. He had gone so far as to obtain a restraint kit and chloroform and had a detailed plan set out.
    One of the various darkly amusing aspects of the case is the "chloroform" he had obtained was from a homeopathic pharmacy. In other words, there wasn't a single molecule of chloroform in it.
    It’s a very long time since I actually ran a pharmacy, but I don’t recall ever actually selling any!
    As a child I bought chloroform, back when health and safety had a more Darwinian side.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Pulpstar said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Acting as the bankers for both sides in a war does tend to be profitable.
    Apparently a banker appeared in one of the Asterix stories. He was called Zurix.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097
    edited July 12
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    Are you not a fan of Phil's music?
    I wouldn't say "fan" but his best work is up there imo. Touch underrated.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,097

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    It's all tied in with a deal to play his music at the Dignitas clinics
    How to go out with a 🙂
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,059
    edited July 12
    Andy_JS said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    Are you not a fan of Phil's music?
    I don't care any more :)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,410
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    It's all tied in with a deal to play his music at the Dignitas clinics
    How to go out with a 🙂
    My Mum and Dad lived there for a while. They were not the rich ones.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,768
    Six hours too late, but just callling in to use my daily allowamce to show you Jimmy Anderson's last bowl in test cricket:

    Not quite the full day's play I had in mind, but worth a trip to London to see...
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    A thread from the North of England correspondent for the Guardian that illustrates the adage, “When in a hole, stop digging.”

    https://x.com/robynvinter/status/1811145849973489932

    Reeks of the sort of snobbery about the lower orders that was associated with Tory aristocrats in times gone by.
    If you check her bio and TwiX stream she's quite interesting. She's a rare white working class northern voice on the Groaniad (also quite pretty). She's a musician as well. Intriguing

    So I think this is pure self loathing from a woman who ie escaping the favelas of Stoke or Sunderland, and shudders when it is shown to her again

    It is, notwithstanding, a monumentally stupid tweet to put out, given her position and publication
    As a lad done good from Stoke who now lives in a rich part of the country. I am always struck by the difference between people I see everyday and when I return back to home. Extreme obesity, people aged well beyond their years from smoking and drinking, etc. It is quite an eye opener.

    My parents both come from poor working class backgrounds, seeing the old photos, obesity wasn't a thing in their day.
    As a regular traveller to France the contrast between the "ch'tis" of the far North and the rest of the country is really something. Up in Picardy and the Pas de Calais many could almost pass as being from the scruffier parts of Britain.
    I found the same applied to Savoie. Once you went over that border from Geneva you immediately saw loads of scruffy, fat, prematurely aged types. No idea why.
    Perhaps that's just the contrast with the overly neat, silk scarf sweeping, not a hair out of place Genevan man who too often resembles the "dad" in the Patek Philippe ad spending quality time on his teak motorboat with the floppy haired son representing the next generation.
    "teak" ?

    Rivas are mahogany.
    Latest in the genre of PB being the source of all niche subject matter expertise. Hats off.
    Riva motorboats are some of the most beautiful things made. The maintenance will make you cry though.

    Everyone loves the *idea* of wooden boats. People who own boats prefer plastic.....

    The way to own a Riva is to have your own boat shed, where it is lifted out of the water after each outing by a travelling crane. Then a hand picked crew of artisans carefully fettle it up. Then cocoon it in clean. dry nitrogen until the next outing.
    Every year they have a gathering of Rivas on Lac Leman for the crazy number of them owned by the good citizens of Geneva. It’s quite a sight to see such a collection of wealth floating as it’s not the Monaco harbour type boat wealth but something much more elegant.

    I saw a house for sale there right on the lake where the boat house was inside the house’s lake level bar with a beautiful Riva included in the sale. The ultimate flex to entertain your friends in your bar with a glass boathouse in the middle and a shiny Riva as the centrepiece.
    The discreet wealth of the Swiss bourgeoisie is something to behold. Shows what you can do if you avoid wars for an entire century and REALLY concentrate on greed
    Phil Collins lives there, I believe. Could have gone anywhere but he chose Switzerland.
    It's all tied in with a deal to play his music at the Dignitas clinics
    Yes, hearing his music would assuage any doubts you might have about whether you’d made the right decision after all.
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