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The fine line between a hung parliament and a total Tory wipeout – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,162
edited July 4 in General
The fine line between a hung parliament and a total Tory wipeout – politicalbetting.com

The PM has seized on our research suggesting 130k votes (in theory) separate a 200-seat Labour majority from a hung parliamentBut I should also point out that 200k going the other way could leave the Tories with ZERO seats. Welcome to marginal Britain. https://t.co/rmc0lvFjGZ pic.twitter.com/jZxsWeG2fw

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Comments

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    First?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368

    First?

    As the Tory party won't be tomorrow...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990

    First?

    Like Starmer
  • eekeek Posts: 28,368
    edited July 3
    Fourth - as the SNP will be tomorrow (in seats)
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited July 3
    Second like Tory/LD/Reform/ AN Other

    Edit. No fifth. Like Tory/LD/Reform/AN Other
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,278

    First?

    5am recount required!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    Thanks to Scott for doing a comprehensive review of all 650 constituencies.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,793

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    The more the dots cluster close to tge line on the left hand side, the more marginal seats there are.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    No, it's a smirking Priti Patel holding back a snarling dog
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,412
    edited July 3

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary, which would mean that the different shapes of the graphs are meaningless. Only the horizontal distribution of the colours is significant.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Guess the number of sweets in the jar at the village fete? I go for 650 -18.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    16th (MOE 5), like Count Buckethead.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    Nice tip on previous thread from @MattW about the exit date of Rishi market (which is not actually the exit date of Rishi - it's the date that the new permanent leader is announced).

    While it's very likely a loser, I think backing 2025 or later at 34 is pretty good value. I'm trying for 40 atm.

    This bet would have won (in rather different circumstances) in 2005.

    It depends on exactly how the Tories decide to tear themselves apart after election. I don't think that "semi sensibly have a long conversation and try to decide which way we're going before rushing into a contest" is only a couple of % chance.

    Hmm maybe I'm starting to talk myself out of it...
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    Lib Dems 65. Tories 125 to 150. Labour 400. Farage 1 seat.Then the rest!
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary.
    It's the symmetry I found baffling

    BTW I was going to write I find baffling but went with found out of laziness because it was autosuggested. So in a sense AI takeover of the site has begun.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Cookie said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    The more the dots cluster close to tge line on the left hand side, the more marginal seats there are.
    Bootle will be the exploding cork on the right hand side and is a fixture.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148
    edited July 3
    I may be over-TSE-ing this, but is that Boris Johnson on sight of a dockyard ...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Recycling my own gag from the last thread, I assumed they were the rough designs for your summer collection. Though that spike on the 2017 looks painful.

    Three TCDRs:

    Those mega majorities Corbyn won in some places in 2017 were stupid wasted votes- Starmer is better off without them.

    There will be few, if any, safe Conservative seats after this.

    There will be lots of fairly safe Labour seats.
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    Roll on the exit poll!
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    eek said:

    Fourth - as the SNP will be tomorrow (in seats)

    Aye!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    algarkirk said:

    Cookie said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    The more the dots cluster close to tge line on the left hand side, the more marginal seats there are.
    Bootle will be the exploding cork on the right hand side and is a fixture.
    I believe its Liverpool Riverside!
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405

    Roll on the exit poll!

    We are in quite the phoney war stage are we not? 31 and 3/4 hours to go
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274

    First?

    1 seat for them.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,412
    edited July 3

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary.
    It's the symmetry I found baffling

    BTW I was going to write I find baffling but went with found out of laziness because it was autosuggested. So in a sense AI takeover of the site has begun.
    I think you are right to be baffled. There seems to be no reason for the difference between the shapes of the distributions or their symmetry, given that the dots overlap. A set of ordinary line graphs would have conveyed the information more straightforwardly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,378
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486

    Roll on the exit poll!

    It’s going to be like watching a penalty shootout between England and Germany, you know what the result is going to be but there is just the slightest chance of a crazy result so makes it impossible not to watch.
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    I feel ill now.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    Isn't this exactly like the loony left theory, that 1992 was down to a tiny number of votes, all in the right places. Therefore proving the election was stolen by MI5...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,378

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    I feel ill now.
    My lunch wasn't *that* badly cooked!
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,148

    Nice tip on previous thread from @MattW about the exit date of Rishi market (which is not actually the exit date of Rishi - it's the date that the new permanent leader is announced).

    While it's very likely a loser, I think backing 2025 or later at 34 is pretty good value. I'm trying for 40 atm.

    This bet would have won (in rather different circumstances) in 2005.

    It depends on exactly how the Tories decide to tear themselves apart after election. I don't think that "semi sensibly have a long conversation and try to decide which way we're going before rushing into a contest" is only a couple of % chance.

    Hmm maybe I'm starting to talk myself out of it...

    There's another strange market about Angela Rayner being Labour Deputy Leader at the next General Election. I'm not sure how that works, really; Betfair games going on, I think, which are beyond my ken.

    Event Start Time
    04 July 2024, 07:00
    Win Only Market

    MARKET INFORMATION

    For further information please see Rules & Regs.

    Will Angela Rayner be Deputy Labour Leader at the next UK General Election?

    This market will be settled based on Angela Rayner's role within the Labour Party at the start of voting on the day of the next UK General Election

    labour.org.uk along with any official announcements from the Labour Party will be used as result source for the market.


    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.227695405
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    I feel ill now.
    My lunch wasn't *that* badly cooked!
    Ha ha!
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,378

    Isn't this exactly like the loony left theory, that 1992 was down to a tiny number of votes, all in the right places. Therefore proving the election was stolen by MI5...

    Loony conspiracy theory.

    MI5 wouldn't be able to steal a bribe from Donald Trump.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited July 3
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    The later allusion of Priti Patel's snarling dog (I've never heard one referred to as a snarling dog before) was even more disconcerting.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,412
    Farooq said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary.
    It's the symmetry I found baffling

    BTW I was going to write I find baffling but went with found out of laziness because it was autosuggested. So in a sense AI takeover of the site has begun.
    I think you are right to be baffled. There seems to be no reason for the difference between the shapes or their symmetry, given that the dots overlap. A set of ordinary line graphs would have conveyed the information more straightforwardly.
    Lines wouldn't be able to show the colour/party of each seat
    Okay, maybe not lines, but one could have given the y-axis significance by not allowing the dots to overlap.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,218

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary.
    It's the symmetry I found baffling

    BTW I was going to write I find baffling but went with found out of laziness because it was autosuggested. So in a sense AI takeover of the site has begun.
    I think you are right to be baffled. There seems to be no reason for the difference between the shapes of the distributions or their symmetry, given that the dots overlap. A set of ordinary line graphs would have conveyed the information more straightforwardly.
    I think it's a density thing. Majorities grouped into bins of 500 or so(?), so the taller the column the more seats with a majority in that range. Basically a way of spreading the dots out so they don't overlap and we can see them all.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Interesting that the Labour majority in Knowsley is predicted to be cut by ~ 7,000 votes.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Scott_xP said:

    First?

    Like Starmer
    Do you mean in the boring twat category?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,986

    Roll on the exit poll!

    We are in quite the phoney war stage are we not? 31 and 3/4 hours to go
    Yes, I wouldn't mind dropping a couple of sleeping pills and waking up at 9.30pm tomorrow now.
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,190
    CatMan said:

    kamski said:

    Not sure if some of the Turkey players and fans are deliberately trying to make themselves unpopular in Germany, I really hope they get eliminated next round. A Germany vs Turkey final would be a nightmare.

    What have they been doing?
    Well there's this:

    https://www.bild.de/news/inland/faschistischer-torjubel-das-bedeutet-der-6685064618c33d086d7b9280

    But more importantly than celebrating goals with extremist anti-semitic shit, the fans are annoying me personally by driving around all night beeping their horns, keeping everyone awake just because Turkey won a football game on the other side of the country. Acceptable-ish if your team wins the final, not if it's just a group game. Especially when it's hot and humid so everyone has their windows open and the next day is a normal work/school day.



  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,310
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    I think that might just be you.
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274
    TimS said:

    Roll on the exit poll!

    We are in quite the phoney war stage are we not? 31 and 3/4 hours to go
    Yes, I wouldn't mind dropping a couple of sleeping pills and waking up at 9.30pm tomorrow now.
    That is the best bet!
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,956

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    The later allusion of Priti Patel's snarling dog (I've never heard one referred to as a snarling dog before) was even more disconcerting.
    An evolution of growler perhaps
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,412

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary.
    It's the symmetry I found baffling

    BTW I was going to write I find baffling but went with found out of laziness because it was autosuggested. So in a sense AI takeover of the site has begun.
    I think you are right to be baffled. There seems to be no reason for the difference between the shapes of the distributions or their symmetry, given that the dots overlap. A set of ordinary line graphs would have conveyed the information more straightforwardly.
    I think it's a density thing. Majorities grouped into bins of 500 or so(?), so the taller the column the more seats with a majority in that range. Basically a way of spreading the dots out so they don't overlap and we can see them all.
    I'm not sure that is the case here. If it were, the distributions would cover the same areas, but 2017 looks distinctly larger than 2024.
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Thank you for giving me that truly revolting mental image just after lunch.
    The later allusion of Priti Patel's snarling dog (I've never heard one referred to as a snarling dog before) was even more disconcerting.
    An evolution of growler perhaps
    A German Sheppard on steroids.
  • AramintaMoonbeamQCAramintaMoonbeamQC Posts: 3,855
    I hope Sir John Curtice, wherever he is, is having a nice relaxing day.
  • highwayparadise306highwayparadise306 Posts: 1,274

    I hope Sir John Curtice, wherever he is, is having a nice relaxing day.

    I hope Sir John Curtice, wherever he is, is having a nice relaxing day.

    I hope Sir John Curtice, wherever he is, is having a nice relaxing day.

    Needs to sleep now before the big night.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited July 3
    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Isn't this exactly like the loony left theory, that 1992 was down to a tiny number of votes, all in the right places. Therefore proving the election was stolen by MI5...

    We get these frankly silly observations trotted out after every election everywhere. Of course a small number of votes can change the contested seats, but the probability of all those small changes occuring in the right place at once is tiny. It's really boils down to observing that marginal seats are marginal.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Pulpstar said:

    Interesting that the Labour majority in Knowsley is predicted to be cut by ~ 7,000 votes.

    Reform eating in? Would have thought it would be good hunting ground for them.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Wonder if the Tories might have a crack at taking Bootle, Knowsley or even making a late go for Belfast West. The Sunak stardust might come good in the end.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    TimS said:

    Roll on the exit poll!

    We are in quite the phoney war stage are we not? 31 and 3/4 hours to go
    Yes, I wouldn't mind dropping a couple of sleeping pills and waking up at 9.30pm tomorrow now.
    What and miss the fun of the final Yougov MRP? Pah. Banished to Labourlist for a week for you my lad! ;)
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Ghedebrav said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Interesting that the Labour majority in Knowsley is predicted to be cut by ~ 7,000 votes.

    Reform eating in? Would have thought it would be good hunting ground for them.
    Could look like the 2015 result there again.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    Took me a min but these are interesting charts. We've gone from butt-plug to cream horn in seven short years.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    "This election is expected to be much more marginal"

    "Expected" is doing a lot of work there. It seems to me that the Times has confused a statistical model with the real result.

    What I suspect will happen in practice is a lot of those that the model shows with small majorities will actually have fairly large majorities. Models are showing quite a few seats with candidates winning in the low 30s or even high 20s, with a bunching between three or four parties. In most places (though not all) that just won't play out. There will normally be two fairly clear contenders, and others - though not wiped out - will be some way back. In a lot of places, one party or other will run away with it a bit based on a better organisation or very strong candidate.

    I might be wrong on that. But the "welcome to marginal Britain" write-up based on comparing real past results with statistical models for this time is quite lazy. It's reading a lot into something that may not, and indeed probably won't, happen.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,578
    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    I can't stay up all night, so I'm wondering if I got to bed *really* early on tomorrow evening and get up at two or three, or stay up until the exit poll and then go to bed, and wake up at four or five.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    Is it one of those magic eye things, whereby if you relax your eyes and kinda squint EVENTUALLY you see a nude full frontal of Suella Braverman?
    Nurse! The screens!
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,521
    algarkirk said:

    Second like Tory/LD/Reform/ AN Other

    Edit. No fifth. Like Tory/LD/Reform/AN Other

    The best bit is both those work :)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,892
    The Rest is Entertainment...

    Richard Osman and Marina Hyde on what political podcasts do better than traditional political television (also football).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UY0zaP-zpXk
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    The 2017-19 leaky prophylactic, covering the Boris parliaments, is proof that the universe has an underlying order made by a grand architect.

    On that basis I'm looking forward to the goodies under the 2024 socialist Christmas tree.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    I don't know anyone who keeps pheasant in in their freezer just in case the prime minister decides to call a snap election. Different circles I guess.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    On topic, the Tories can’t possibly get zero seats.
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 795
    MattW said:

    Nice tip on previous thread from @MattW about the exit date of Rishi market (which is not actually the exit date of Rishi - it's the date that the new permanent leader is announced).

    While it's very likely a loser, I think backing 2025 or later at 34 is pretty good value. I'm trying for 40 atm.

    This bet would have won (in rather different circumstances) in 2005.

    It depends on exactly how the Tories decide to tear themselves apart after election. I don't think that "semi sensibly have a long conversation and try to decide which way we're going before rushing into a contest" is only a couple of % chance.

    Hmm maybe I'm starting to talk myself out of it...

    There's another strange market about Angela Rayner being Labour Deputy Leader at the next General Election. I'm not sure how that works, really; Betfair games going on, I think, which are beyond my ken.

    Event Start Time
    04 July 2024, 07:00
    Win Only Market

    MARKET INFORMATION

    For further information please see Rules & Regs.

    Will Angela Rayner be Deputy Labour Leader at the next UK General Election?

    This market will be settled based on Angela Rayner's role within the Labour Party at the start of voting on the day of the next UK General Election

    labour.org.uk along with any official announcements from the Labour Party will be used as result source for the market.


    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.227695405
    That's the election tomorrow. Not really much point in that market...
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Sadly I have given up booze during the week unless at a function. Despite the bollocks I write on here my brain has to be functioning and sharp for work at the moment so best way was to completely stop on school nights as I’m not good at doing “just the one”. Food will depend on the weather but probably lobster Thermidor or a sarnie.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    In other news, NigelB posted some worrying with info regard to Trump's position on Ukraine.

    The Democrats need to act fast on Biden.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,378
    I'm planning a drinking game.

    Every time somebody says 'Labour have underperformed here' I'm going to down one whisky.

    For the sake of both my liver and my pocket I'm hoping BJO will have nodded off before I wake up!
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    ydoethur said:

    I'm planning a drinking game.

    Every time somebody says 'Labour have underperformed here' I'm going to down one whisky.

    For the sake of both my liver and my pocket I'm hoping BJO will have nodded off before I wake up!

    You will be trashed by midnight...
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary, which would mean that the different shapes of the graphs are meaningless. Only the horizontal distribution of the colours is significant.
    I think the vertical is essentially a frequency plot, so the density of dots is the same throughout, secured by the bar getting fatter where there are a lot of seats involved. So 2017, say, has a fair number of marginals, fewer with a medium sized majority, then quite a few with a big majority, tailing off as you get to silly majorities in Liverpool etc.

    Not sure it's a massively intuitive way to visualise. But it does highlight my point about 2024 being based on a statistical model, because that sort of evening out of the cone is exactly what a statistical model is likely to do. Reality is likely to be different.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,378
    Cicero said:

    ydoethur said:

    I'm planning a drinking game.

    Every time somebody says 'Labour have underperformed here' I'm going to down one whisky.

    For the sake of both my liver and my pocket I'm hoping BJO will have nodded off before I wake up!

    You will be trashed by midnight...
    I'm going to bed before the poll and waking up early.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    FF43 said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    I don't know anyone who keeps pheasant in in their freezer just in case the prime minister decides to call a snap election. Different circles I guess.
    LOL you never know.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Kamala now favourite for the Dem Nom

    https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1808495693113307439
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    edited July 3
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    Just joint it and c asserole or stew in red wine with root veg. We use carrots, shallots and celeriac. Serve with potatoes. The leftovers drain OK and can be eaten cold with salad or stovies and pickled beetroot the next day.

    Watch out for shot (but there may not be any in the meat) and for the bony tendons in the lower leg - just suck the meat off those and put them to the sides of the plate.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
  • FlannerFlanner Posts: 437

    Roll on the exit poll!

    Can someone help me here?

    We all know why the polls have been all over the place - but don't those explanations apply almost as much to the exit poll? It's not going to poll all 650 seats, so the seats selected inevitably won't perfectly model all the relevant influences in the ~520 they won't select. The margin of error even in most of the ~130 they do select will be greater than in previous exit polls. And we won't know how far the exit poll will be out, or in what direction, till the counts are all done. Maybe, indeed, if the postal vote problem turns out to be big enough, not for however long it takes for any offended party to take their beef to a definitive court hearing.

    Right now, we can be 99.9% sure that Labour will get a majority over the other parties combined, that the postal vote problem won't change that and that - even after recounts - we'll know both things by Friday. But I doubt whether the exit poll will come anywhere near as close to getting the detail right as we've come to expect - and maybe even not close enough to predict the leading Opposition party.

    Could it be that the best value bet you could find will be betting on whichever politician says "if that exit poll's right, I'll eat my hat". Because the poll will probably turn out wronger than we've seen for years - so that politician's hat could go uneaten without anyone accusing him/her of welching.

    Who might give me odds on that?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ydoethur said:

    I'm planning a drinking game.

    Every time somebody says 'Labour have underperformed here' I'm going to down one whisky.

    For the sake of both my liver and my pocket I'm hoping BJO will have nodded off before I wake up!

    You need to order a case of single malt. You'll need it. Add a 25th bottle to celebrate Amanda Milling's victory too.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    Never failed to understand something as badly as I fail to understand that graph.

    I get that each point represents a seat, and that the distance to the right represents the majority with which it is held. I'm not sure about the vertical axis though. That appears to be arbitrary, which would mean that the different shapes of the graphs are meaningless. Only the horizontal distribution of the colours is significant.
    I think the vertical is essentially a frequency plot, so the density of dots is the same throughout, secured by the bar getting fatter where there are a lot of seats involved. So 2017, say, has a fair number of marginals, fewer with a medium sized majority, then quite a few with a big majority, tailing off as you get to silly majorities in Liverpool etc.

    Not sure it's a massively intuitive way to visualise. But it does highlight my point about 2024 being based on a statistical model, because that sort of evening out of the cone is exactly what a statistical model is likely to do. Reality is likely to be different.
    Nah it's Penny, Suella and Kemi I think as Leon hinted at.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,625
    Leon said:

    Kamala now favourite for the Dem Nom

    https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1808495693113307439

    It seems to be a done deal and the only question is how to choreograph it.
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    edited July 3
    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    Yes it's nice. Don't keep it too long, that said. Many shoots are super eager to give birds away and often have them available on the road for anyone to take but in London you might be reduced to specialist butchers.

    If you do get your hands on a bird on the feather then either pluck it (shocker, huge mess) or breast it which is done in seconds. Then put in a freezer bag, label it, and freeze it.

    Then have it on election night.

    Edit and then a million recipes, casserole, pies, etc but I prefer it roasted as is.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Sadly I have given up booze during the week unless at a function. Despite the bollocks I write on here my brain has to be functioning and sharp for work at the moment so best way was to completely stop on school nights as I’m not good at doing “just the one”. Food will depend on the weather but probably lobster Thermidor or a sarnie.
    As noted here passim I've ended my problematic relationship with booze - but I'm treating myself to some good coffee, chocolate and dates. For actual tea, probably the rest of the rajma* I've got in the fridge.



    *a stupendously simple dish to make, and delish - as long as you use fresh ginger.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
    Oooh good advice, and thanks to @Carnyx as well

    Yes, one of the great things about game is that it often makes a great meal for one. Guineafowl (yes I know it's likely farmed) is delicious and just the right size, with some leftovers for a sandwich, and so forth

    My local M&S used to do venison steaks which were YUM, but now they've gone. Grrr
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,649
    edited July 3

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
    I don't have a single pheasant in my freezer. About 200g of green beans, ice cubes and a single mars ice cream.
  • LloydBanksLloydBanks Posts: 45
    I've taken the baby to Beckenham today to watch some cricket, and I've heard maybe three or four separate conversations around me of groups of very well-to-do looking, stereotypical Tory voters absolutely laying into them. What exactly that translates to in terms of voting is anyone's guess, but I'm quite surprised to hear it
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited July 3
    Flanner said:

    Roll on the exit poll!

    Can someone help me here?

    We all know why the polls have been all over the place - but don't those explanations apply almost as much to the exit poll? It's not going to poll all 650 seats, so the seats selected inevitably won't perfectly model all the relevant influences in the ~520 they won't select. The margin of error even in most of the ~130 they do select will be greater than in previous exit polls. And we won't know how far the exit poll will be out, or in what direction, till the counts are all done. Maybe, indeed, if the postal vote problem turns out to be big enough, not for however long it takes for any offended party to take their beef to a definitive court hearing.

    Right now, we can be 99.9% sure that Labour will get a majority over the other parties combined, that the postal vote problem won't change that and that - even after recounts - we'll know both things by Friday. But I doubt whether the exit poll will come anywhere near as close to getting the detail right as we've come to expect - and maybe even not close enough to predict the leading Opposition party.

    Could it be that the best value bet you could find will be betting on whichever politician says "if that exit poll's right, I'll eat my hat". Because the poll will probably turn out wronger than we've seen for years - so that politician's hat could go uneaten without anyone accusing him/her of welching.

    Who might give me odds on that?
    I ain’t betting against Sir John Curtice.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,250
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    Just joint it and c asserole or stew in red wine with root veg. We use carrots, shallots and celeriac. Serve with potatoes. The leftovers drain OK and can be eaten cold with salad or stovies and pickled beetroot the next day.

    Watch out for shot (but there may not be any in the meat) and for the bony tendons in the lower leg - just suck the meat off those and put them to the sides of the plate.
    The biggest issue with frozen food is defrost it sllllllloooooowwwllly. The number of people who chuck it in the microwave at War Emergency Power. Then wonder why it is partly on fire and partly frozen....
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    Just joint it and c asserole or stew in red wine with root veg. We use carrots, shallots and celeriac. Serve with potatoes. The leftovers drain OK and can be eaten cold with salad or stovies and pickled beetroot the next day.

    Watch out for shot (but there may not be any in the meat) and for the bony tendons in the lower leg - just suck the meat off those and put them to the sides of the plate.
    The biggest issue with frozen food is defrost it sllllllloooooowwwllly. The number of people who chuck it in the microwave at War Emergency Power. Then wonder why it is partly on fire and partly frozen....
    Put it in the fridge the day before
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    edited July 3

    Leon said:

    Kamala now favourite for the Dem Nom

    https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1808495693113307439

    It seems to be a done deal and the only question is how to choreograph it.
    Yes, that's my take

    Surely Biden will see sense and honourably retire? - then everyone can say "what a great man, sacrificed his career for America, blah de blah" - all a load of twaddle but that's what people will say

    If he literally has to be gouged out of the Oval Office by a painful and public donor-strike he will spend his last years being hated (likewise his insane family). It's ridic. Just quit, you stubborn old coot
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,835
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
    Oooh good advice, and thanks to @Carnyx as well

    Yes, one of the great things about game is that it often makes a great meal for one. Guineafowl (yes I know it's likely farmed) is delicious and just the right size, with some leftovers for a sandwich, and so forth

    My local M&S used to do venison steaks which were YUM, but now they've gone. Grrr
    Apparently some pheasant is too old to roast and I have never woprked out how to deal with this but then we tend to casserole rather than roast anyway.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,075
    edited July 3
    Gary (from Gary's Economics) on the election
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vx6T_5qQkPQ
    24mins

    [it broadly outlines why I'm not looking forward to a Labour government]
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Leon said:

    Kamala now favourite for the Dem Nom

    https://x.com/zerohedge/status/1808495693113307439

    If you have singlehandedly defenestrated Biden, hats off to you. All those myriad posts might have paid off.

    Nonetheless it was blinkin' annoying at the time.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,553
    "Tories warn of Labour landslide in final day of election campaigning"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0c8187b3-aec4-43cd-a434-5c60833dddcd
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited July 3
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
    Oooh good advice, and thanks to @Carnyx as well

    Yes, one of the great things about game is that it often makes a great meal for one. Guineafowl (yes I know it's likely farmed) is delicious and just the right size, with some leftovers for a sandwich, and so forth

    My local M&S used to do venison steaks which were YUM, but now they've gone. Grrr
    You can also mince pheasant breast and make potted pheasant - plenty of recipes online, but it's a really nice snack on toasted baguette etc
    Edit - Marks will do pheasant breasts in season if not try field and flower online or an online game merchant
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,355
    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    I'm hoping to bake my Welsh Cakes tonight, and I believe the local supermarket has some nice London beers in stock from the kernel brewery, which is a bonus.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457
    Flanner said:

    Roll on the exit poll!

    Can someone help me here?

    We all know why the polls have been all over the place - but don't those explanations apply almost as much to the exit poll? It's not going to poll all 650 seats, so the seats selected inevitably won't perfectly model all the relevant influences in the ~520 they won't select. The margin of error even in most of the ~130 they do select will be greater than in previous exit polls. And we won't know how far the exit poll will be out, or in what direction, till the counts are all done. Maybe, indeed, if the postal vote problem turns out to be big enough, not for however long it takes for any offended party to take their beef to a definitive court hearing.

    Right now, we can be 99.9% sure that Labour will get a majority over the other parties combined, that the postal vote problem won't change that and that - even after recounts - we'll know both things by Friday. But I doubt whether the exit poll will come anywhere near as close to getting the detail right as we've come to expect - and maybe even not close enough to predict the leading Opposition party.

    Could it be that the best value bet you could find will be betting on whichever politician says "if that exit poll's right, I'll eat my hat". Because the poll will probably turn out wronger than we've seen for years - so that politician's hat could go uneaten without anyone accusing him/her of welching.

    Who might give me odds on that?
    One of the main problems with polling is the certainty to vote aspect, which the exit poll does at least avoid.

    We should get an indication of how well the exit poll is performing fairly early on - the bigger the error, the more obvious it should be from the early results.
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    I'm hoping to bake my Welsh Cakes tonight, and I believe the local supermarket has some nice London beers in stock from the kernel brewery, which is a bonus.
    Best brewery in the UK. The ones I miss the most.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tories warn of Labour landslide in final day of election campaigning"

    https://www.ft.com/content/0c8187b3-aec4-43cd-a434-5c60833dddcd

    OK Andy we'll all vote Tory. Oh wait, I see what you did there. A sneaky Tory majority in the offing.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Carnyx said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    What's everyone having for election night supper?

    I'm doing my favourite Singapore chicken laksa, with the full works including deep fried tofu puffs

    I sometimes make it so spicy it wakes me at night for emergency reasons, but I figure this night, of all nights, that won't matter

    For booze, I'm doing some crisp gin and tonics, oir maybe dry white wine, then Gran Reserva Riojas through the night

    Pheasant out of the freezer has to be.

    Is frozen pheasant nice? Or are you jiking? I have no idea, never cooked it in any form

    I really should, perhaps. After my success with the French pigeons

    I really wish we had a decent butcher's in Camden, selling game. If I want game I generally have to go to Selfridge's Food Hall across the park, which is a faff
    I stack the freezer with pheasant during shooting season. A roasted pheasant makes a lovely dinner for one
    Oooh good advice, and thanks to @Carnyx as well

    Yes, one of the great things about game is that it often makes a great meal for one. Guineafowl (yes I know it's likely farmed) is delicious and just the right size, with some leftovers for a sandwich, and so forth

    My local M&S used to do venison steaks which were YUM, but now they've gone. Grrr
    Apparently some pheasant is too old to roast and I have never woprked out how to deal with this but then we tend to casserole rather than roast anyway.
    Yeah old birds need slow cooking. Young birds for roasting
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    For when Labour want to raise more tax:

    In his budget speech Jeremy Hunt made the following statement. “The average earner in the UK now has the lowest effective personal tax rate since 1975 — and one that is lower than in America, France, Germany or any G7 country.”

    Given that the overall tax burden — the tax take as a fraction of national income — is reaching record levels, it is a remarkable claim. I have neither heard nor seen much commentary on it. Paradoxically that might well be because it is demonstrably true. Average earners really are facing lower levels of direct taxation than they have in 50 years. And it is from average earners that higher-tax countries in western Europe get much of their extra revenue......

    .....Our reliance on top earners has continued to grow. That top 1 per cent pay 29 per cent of all income tax now, up from 25 per cent in 2010 and 21 per cent at the turn of the century. Whisper it quietly, but this Tory government has taken a serious chunk out of the incomes of the 1 per cent.


    https://ifs.org.uk/articles/how-tax-burden-high-when-most-us-are-taxed-so-low
This discussion has been closed.