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The public want some political bettors to get a criminal record – politicalbetting.com

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  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    And we borrowed another £15bn in May https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmll7k8pl2xo

    More than we did last year. I am really not sure in what alternative world Hunt now lives but its nice that we are not so insolvent there.

    In this one our finances are continuing to deteriorate, we are consuming far more than we are earning, urgent cuts in public spending and tax rises are needed and several sacred cows are for the chopping block.

    Politicians of all stripes who say they will not increase taxes are LIARS.
    Politicians of all stripes who claim that they can fund better public services are LIARS.
    Politicians who claim debt is falling are...well you've got the idea by now.

    I genuinely cannot recall a political campaign where the competition seems to be who can stick their fingers in their ears the hardest to this extent. No wonder Reeves looks miserable all the time.

    You can blame the politicians but it's the voters themselves who are responsible, led by a rancid media. If either the Tories or Labour came out and said taxes will rise to the extent they need to they would eviscerated by the papers. Look what happened to May with her social care plans.
    We get the politicians we deserve as the old saying goes.

    But it's also why we need real leaders, who can lead us to realise the truth or persuade us what needs to be done and not just take the easy route.

    It's mostly on us, but they've still let us down too.
    You can argue Starmer has been weak on this - he should be more open but if the price of that were a failure to win power...

    Sunak OTOH is deeply in the wrong on taxes: screaming that Labour will raise taxes while claiming that he can reduce them.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Well I guess, if you wanted to be positive, you could say he was half right.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    How sad.

    Sir Bradley Wiggins’s fall from cycling superstar to sofa surfer

    The financial troubles of the Olympic gold medallist and Britain’s first Tour de France winner have left him homeless and bankrupt


    Sitting on a gold throne after winning a fourth Olympic gold, Sir Bradley Wiggins was at the peak of a glittering career that catalysed a British cycling revolution.

    He was the first Briton to win the gruel­ling Tour de France, won five Olympic gold medals and built up an estimated net worth of £13 million.

    But little more than ten years on from London 2012, the hero affectionately dubbed “Sir Wiggo” has been left bankrupt and in effect homeless, “sofa surfing” between family and friends.

    His marriage has collapsed, his £975,000 family home has been repossessed and the Mallorca villa he once called a “home from home” is believed to have been lost in the scramble to cover his debts.

    He was even said to have spent some time living in a VW camper van, which was lent to him in return for social ­media posts and was later said to have been found “trashed” in a car park.

    A house he rented for six months in the Lancashire resort town of Lytham St Annes was allegedly left looking like a “dosshouse” with cigarette butts on the floor, according to a source.

    The bankruptcy means he may have to sell his Olympic medals to repay the debts. It is a sad downfall for a sporting hero who helped turn cycling from a niche sport into a national obsession. Wiggins is said to blame “the ‘professional negligence’ of others” and is considering legal action.


    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cycling/article/sir-bradley-wigginss-fall-from-cycling-superstar-to-sofa-surfer-5v77h9jfx
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    DavidL said:

    And we borrowed another £15bn in May https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmll7k8pl2xo

    More than we did last year. I am really not sure in what alternative world Hunt now lives but its nice that we are not so insolvent there.

    In this one our finances are continuing to deteriorate, we are consuming far more than we are earning, urgent cuts in public spending and tax rises are needed and several sacred cows are for the chopping block.

    Politicians of all stripes who say they will not increase taxes are LIARS.
    Politicians of all stripes who claim that they can fund better public services are LIARS.
    Politicians who claim debt is falling are...well you've got the idea by now.

    I genuinely cannot recall a political campaign where the competition seems to be who can stick their fingers in their ears the hardest to this extent. No wonder Reeves looks miserable all the time.

    I can't see how Reeves avoids becoming the most hated Labour chancellor of all time. I see that she has two routes to that destination, but I can't see any way to a different outcome. One of those routes involves a sovereign debt crisis, and the other doesn't. Her choice.
    She just needs to tax the wealthy more, it's not difficult. Many of them will hate her for it of course but they don't have the numbers to tip the balance against the masses.
    Taxing the wealthy more won't be enough. The current and near-future demands on the public finances are (in no particular order):

    1. Cutting the deficit.
    2. Continuing to find more money each year for the demographic transition.
    3. NHS
    4. Social Care
    5. Defence
    6. Public administration in general (local government, criminal justice system, etc)
    7. Infrastructure investment
    8. Education
    9. Growing the Economy

    It's a fearsome list. Reeves will have to choose. Choosing will make her unpopular.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    Cicero said:

    Cicero said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Imagine the Far right won the parliamentary elections in France and then govern really well......eek!

    Like Putin in Russia maybe?
    Putin's rule in Russia is best characterised as a serious of catastrophic economic decisions which has left the Russian economy disastrously under invested and undervthe control of brutal mafia cliques. This then followed by the deaths of half a million men at a time when Russian demographics were already close to collapse.
    Putin has launched a serious of wars against peaceful neighbours- Georgia in 2008 and Ukraine since 2014. He has also used bribery, blackmail, propaganda and cyber war directly against the West. He has openly paid money to disruptive parties, such as the RN in France and the AfD. In the UK Farage and Salmond were both employed by Russia Today. I note the strong Russian links of Aaron Banks, Dominic Cummings and Jacob Rees Mogg amongst others.

    Putin is the enemy of freedom and democracy. His supporters likewise.
    Dominic Cummings lived in Russia for four years, and you maybrecall was denied full security clearance. Aaron Banks has close links with the Russian Embassy and was a regular guest of the Ambassador, where Brexit was a major discussion topic. Jacob Rees Mogg invested many millions in Russia, and it is strongly suggested, these investments were made on behalf of ultimately Russian beneficiaries.
    ...and Boris Johnson attended Lebedev parties whilst Foreign Secretary sans his security detail.

    How so little has been made of that breach by the authorities and the media is beyond me. Boris will be Boris.
    ISTR OGH attended a party at the Russian embassy a few years back. Does that mean that OGH, and by extension this site, is a Russian mouthpiece?

    And I'm also amused by the way Mandelson is not mentioned whenever Russia and British politicians are mentioned...
    OGH and Mandelson weren't Foreign Secretary at the time. There is no equity in a formal event at the Embassy and a bunga, bunga party in Lebedev's villa.

    That you can't see the jeopardy in the Foreign Secretary shaking off his minders and attending a party held by a close associate of Putin, an enemy of our nation is remarkable.
    I can see that. I'm just pointing out that connections are not uncommon.

    As an aside, if members of the Conservative Party are paid Russian stooges, then Russia has got incredibly poor value for money given the vehement support for Russia within the party. IMV that alone negates your point. Now if you were talking about Fico's government in Slovakia, I might agree.

    What evidence do you have that attending parties with Russians has caused the UK government to be less harsh on Russia's misdeeds?
    You have a tendency to defend you position by throwing out wild hyperbole such as "members of the Conservative Party are paid Russian stooges". I suspect that Johnson's decision to attend was the opportunity for lots of casual shags with lots of nubile young call girls (maybe I am wrong and he kept his trousers on) and not to trade state secrets. The reality is he should have been nowhere near Lebedev's villa, with or without his minders.

    Alec Douglas Home's government fell for a lot less, but rather than banish the Minister to a lifetime of charitable works as we did with Profumo we made this Foreign Secretary Prime Minister.
    LOL. You accuse me of 'wild hyperbole', then throw accusations about Johnson's johnson around...

    You are just muck-throwing.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,971

    Gambling destroys many lives. Of course we should allow gambling responsibly but I would ban gambling adverts.

    Taking food from the mouths of the children of advertisers.........
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    kle4 said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.


    All those millions abandoning the Tories have very good reasons, but I hope they reflect on the alternative options carefully.
    Do you think they will?

    I don't see it putting off a single Reform voter as long as they see net zero immigration on the ballot
    No I don't think they will. As I've said before people vote on vibes, and they hate the Tories and broadly like Reform, at least enough to vote for them this time.

    Add in his logically absurd claim not to be justifying Putin's actions even as he provides justifications, and the few who might be put off will have an excuse to ignore it.

    Maybe it encourages a few people planning to stay at home to vote Tory, but I don't see it repelling any current Reform support - such people would believe him over the likes of me or, say, Rishi.

    Especially as the Tories are afraid to go after him.
  • novanova Posts: 695

    From that MEE story, this photo of Wes Streeting's constituency office shows it is next door to a shop offering private tutoring of schoolchildren. There are several such shops around here. This is the modern face of private education, soon (one imagines) to be hit by 20 per cent fees alongside Eton and Winchester.

    image
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/uk-election-ilford-north-leanne-mohamad-wes-streeting

    I imagine many of them are already subject to VAT. The exemption is a lot stricter than just "education".
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    Gambling destroys many lives. Of course we should allow gambling responsibly but I would ban gambling adverts.

    They are essentially dishonest, because they do not acknowledge that successful punters will be banned.

    The nonsense about 'responsible gambling' is also bollox, for the same reason.
    Not banned but heavily restricted. It is like being banned except the betting firm still gets to boast of its millions of open accounts when it reports to the City.

    Here is a picture of Ladbrokes limiting my £20 stake to £1.43 on a 20/1 shot back in 2022.

    And the real point is that they were limiting *you* to that stake. Some other random Billy with no history of betting on politics, would likely have been allowed the £20.

    That’s what so pernicious about the data mining, and the bookies are spending millions on systems to limit punters. It’s also something that will get a lot worse with AI, allowing them to be much more aggressive in this sort of behaviour if it’s not regulated.
  • novanova Posts: 695

    kle4 said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.


    All those millions abandoning the Tories have very good reasons, but I hope they reflect on the alternative options carefully.
    Do you think they will?

    I don't see it putting off a single Reform voter as long as they see net zero immigration on the ballot
    Do you think we could trick a few with a small full stop between Net Zero and Immigration?
  • I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    "Hitler was wrong to invade Poland, and the Poles were wrong to deny him the Polish Corridor."
    The fascist, antisemitic Polish government was very unwise and foolish to join in when Hitler invaded Czechozlovakia and take a bit of Czechozlovakia themselves, and then to continue making life a misery through petty border policing, holding them up for hours, for Germans trying to cross between Danzig/East Prussia and "Mainland" Germany and refuse permission fornan autubahn through the corridor, thinking that their vast army would see off any trouble.

    Russia also invaded too and behaved utterly brutally but no one declared war on Russia and they got to keep much of the parts of Poland that had been in the Russian empire pre 1914.

    These things are never black and white like fairy tales.

    The first trick of statecraft is to avoid war in the first place.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457

    How sad.

    Sir Bradley Wiggins’s fall from cycling superstar to sofa surfer

    The financial troubles of the Olympic gold medallist and Britain’s first Tour de France winner have left him homeless and bankrupt


    Sitting on a gold throne after winning a fourth Olympic gold, Sir Bradley Wiggins was at the peak of a glittering career that catalysed a British cycling revolution.

    He was the first Briton to win the gruel­ling Tour de France, won five Olympic gold medals and built up an estimated net worth of £13 million.

    But little more than ten years on from London 2012, the hero affectionately dubbed “Sir Wiggo” has been left bankrupt and in effect homeless, “sofa surfing” between family and friends.

    His marriage has collapsed, his £975,000 family home has been repossessed and the Mallorca villa he once called a “home from home” is believed to have been lost in the scramble to cover his debts.

    He was even said to have spent some time living in a VW camper van, which was lent to him in return for social ­media posts and was later said to have been found “trashed” in a car park.

    A house he rented for six months in the Lancashire resort town of Lytham St Annes was allegedly left looking like a “dosshouse” with cigarette butts on the floor, according to a source.

    The bankruptcy means he may have to sell his Olympic medals to repay the debts. It is a sad downfall for a sporting hero who helped turn cycling from a niche sport into a national obsession. Wiggins is said to blame “the ‘professional negligence’ of others” and is considering legal action.


    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cycling/article/sir-bradley-wigginss-fall-from-cycling-superstar-to-sofa-surfer-5v77h9jfx

    I've been following this for a while, and it seems another sad case of someone who excelled in one area being rather less excellent at managing money, and perhaps who to trust with his money. A situation made worse as his fame waned and doping allegations grew.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,951
    boulay said:

    From that MEE story, this photo of Wes Streeting's constituency office shows it is next door to a shop offering private tutoring of schoolchildren. There are several such shops around here. This is the modern face of private education, soon (one imagines) to be hit by 20 per cent fees alongside Eton and Winchester.

    image
    https://www.middleeasteye.net/big-story/uk-election-ilford-north-leanne-mohamad-wes-streeting

    What a fucking dump. Is shopfront signage not covered by planning regs?
    Barty's England.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Morning all! Woolies prophetic dream services bring you last nights election related dream. For some reason I dreamt last night the LDs will definitely retain Chesham and Amersham 'because of the votes in Chesham'
    Do your own research and snoozing!
  • TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Fucking yes 💪

    It assumes that a criminal offence has been committed, which is questionable.

    I’d have thought you could make a pretty strong case that anyone who was directly involved in the election decision committed a criminal offence if they then bet on it before the announcement.

    But far less certain for anyone else.

    Criminal law doesn’t appear particularly well defined in this area, FWIW.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    edited June 22
    Sandpit said:

    Two changes I’d make to gambling regulations:

    1. Companies not allowed to decide odds or max limits based on customer profiling.
    2. Companies not allowed to advertise on TV during sports events, nor to sponsor sports teams.

    Why shouldn’t companies be entitled to determine how they will invest shareholder money?
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    How sad.

    Sir Bradley Wiggins’s fall from cycling superstar to sofa surfer

    The financial troubles of the Olympic gold medallist and Britain’s first Tour de France winner have left him homeless and bankrupt


    Sitting on a gold throne after winning a fourth Olympic gold, Sir Bradley Wiggins was at the peak of a glittering career that catalysed a British cycling revolution.

    He was the first Briton to win the gruel­ling Tour de France, won five Olympic gold medals and built up an estimated net worth of £13 million.

    But little more than ten years on from London 2012, the hero affectionately dubbed “Sir Wiggo” has been left bankrupt and in effect homeless, “sofa surfing” between family and friends.

    His marriage has collapsed, his £975,000 family home has been repossessed and the Mallorca villa he once called a “home from home” is believed to have been lost in the scramble to cover his debts.

    He was even said to have spent some time living in a VW camper van, which was lent to him in return for social ­media posts and was later said to have been found “trashed” in a car park.

    A house he rented for six months in the Lancashire resort town of Lytham St Annes was allegedly left looking like a “dosshouse” with cigarette butts on the floor, according to a source.

    The bankruptcy means he may have to sell his Olympic medals to repay the debts. It is a sad downfall for a sporting hero who helped turn cycling from a niche sport into a national obsession. Wiggins is said to blame “the ‘professional negligence’ of others” and is considering legal action.


    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cycling/article/sir-bradley-wigginss-fall-from-cycling-superstar-to-sofa-surfer-5v77h9jfx

    I've been following this for a while, and it seems another sad case of someone who excelled in one area being rather less excellent at managing money, and perhaps who to trust with his money. A situation made worse as his fame waned and doping allegations grew.
    So many sportsmen end up in a bad place after their career ends. It’s a combination of the sort of personality that’s dedicated to make it to the top of a sport in the first place, and achieving serious money and fame at a young age.

    When they retire, there’s suddenly a big hole in their lives and not much money coming in, many having little understanding of financial planning beyond advice from vested interests such as agents and managers.

    IIRC the Premier League clubs now employ finance advisors and wealth managers, to work with the players on making proper long-term investments.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Fashionable opinions” - nice try.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Sent my postal vote back today.

    Pen hovered over a few options (LD, WPOGB, Independent) but came down on Green

    You almost voted for a racist homophobe. Interesting.
  • The Tories should go after Farage. They have nothing to loose. Nige will fight to the bitter end of course and watching the show would be a lot of fun. Better than listening to the fully costed mantra, questions generally not being answered and the general drivel that we are being told, smoke and mirrors and blaming everyone else for the problems in the country etc. As opposed to coming up with constructive positive solutions. I did like Ed Davey on question time the other day though.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Sandpit said:

    IIRC the Premier League clubs now employ finance advisors and wealth managers, to work with the players on making proper long-term investments.

    Wrexham are also helping players maximise their off-field business opportunities
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Farooq said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    "...the EU was wrong to expand eastward."

    This is wrong for several reason.

    Firstly, if it is the democratic will of the countries in eastern Europe to become members of the EU, why was that wrong? What was Russia's alternative 'offer'?

    Secondly, it puts the two clauses on the same level; as tough the EU's eastwards expansion is as wrong as EU's imperialist war of aggression.

    Thirdly, by extension, would those countries leaving the EU stop the war?

    Fourthly, and perhaps most obviously, Ukraine never joined the EU.

    This war is occurring because Russia is an imperialistic, fascistic state. Anything else is just victim-blaming.
    Farage cannot fathom that some people think the EU is a good idea. So he'll latch onto anything at all to try to discredit it. If that means endorsing or echoing Putin's fictions, apparently that's ok.

    I think it's fair to say that Reform has an appeasement mindset at the very best. We had someone from that party saying we should have left Hitler alone. All it needs is Trump and Farage in power and Russia will feel enabled to invade a NATO country.
    I think he also makes the category error on thinking that all Brexiteers dislike the EU and want to see it fail. Sure there are some, but Brexit was a vote about Britain’s membership, not approval or disapproval of the entire enterprise.

    Last night reinforces that, like Corbyn, he doesn’t really feel the need to appeal much beyond his own faction. That’s a relief. It means he may stay in the news and take some of the more Trumpish vote - there is clearly a market for it as we see here on PB - but it makes it harder for Reform to push into centre right territory in the way Le Pen and Meloni have managed.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    15 hours since the comments aired, there is still no official Tory response
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Morning all! Woolies prophetic dream services bring you last nights election related dream. For some reason I dreamt last night the LDs will definitely retain Chesham and Amersham 'because of the votes in Chesham'
    Do your own research and snoozing!

    I dreamt Amersham swung blue because they realised Farage is the TRAITOR is this reality politics TV series, that sprung up on TV from nowhere 4 weeks ago, and is besties with Vladimir Puking (as the new improved AI Powered Natural House Dragon Speaking Software calks him)

    So there. Take a Dutch Salute this morning 🫡
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited June 22
    I am shocked, another Reform candidate spouting bullshit about Jews and Muslims.

    Jews are “agitating” to import “third-world Muslims” into Britain, a Reform UK candidate said in an antisemitic diatribe.

    Ben Aston, the Reform hopeful in Bournemouth West, claimed that Jews were organising Muslim migration to Britain and said the government was deliberately “injecting” Britain with African men.

    He is polling at almost 20 per cent in the constituency, which the Tories are defending against Labour.

    Aston was selected to replace Peter Storms, who previously served in the Rhodesian police force and was removed as a candidate last month after posts online in which he appeared to share content from Britain First, a far-right group.

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/religion/article/jews-back-third-world-muslims-coming-to-uk-reform-candidate-said-gh3p0kmrg
  • @Peter_the_Punter I did matched betting for a number of years and I am stake limited on virtually every large bookmaker.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Morning all! Woolies prophetic dream services bring you last nights election related dream. For some reason I dreamt last night the LDs will definitely retain Chesham and Amersham 'because of the votes in Chesham'
    Do your own research and snoozing!

    I dreamt Amersham swung blue because they realised Farage is the TRAITOR is this reality politics TV series, that sprung up on TV from nowhere 4 weeks ago, and is besties with Vladimir Puking (as the new improved AI Powered Natural House Dragon Speaking Software calks him)

    So there. Take a Dutch Salute this morning 🫡
    Welcome back.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,473
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Off thread: as I telegraphed yesterday, with 48 hours free of parental duties, I'm off on an adventure in the North of England: I'm going to cycle across the Pennines (well, up to a point). I've never taken my bike on the train before. But I'm going to get the weekends only Manchester Victoria train to the Settle-Carlisle line train, and cycle from Ribblehead (or perhaps Kirkby Stephen - I leave my options open) and cycle to Northallerton.
    For what is supposed to be the nicest weekend of the year so far it is as yet disappointingly overcast. But I am optimistic that it will improve.
    It's all going improbably well so far, in that I left my house on time, cycled the six miles to Victoria without incident, was in time for an indulgent low-quality coffee and a snack, encountered only entirely cheerful and helpful railway staff and fully working lifts and been only mildly poisoned by diesel fumes at Victoria, and been greeted by the Ribblehead train turning up on time. Disaster almost struck when another cyclist snuck on ahead of me, taking the one remaining cycle parking space - Northern are at pains to tell you that they'll only allow two bikes on the train, and mine was the third, but the guard didn't seem to mind - and the train has been bustling; everyone cheerful and excited for their days out, and everyone who has sat opposite me has been full of conversation.
    And now the sun has come out. Almost.

    And now my train has just left Clitheroe station, heading north.
    Possibly only @Sunilpranasan will umderstand how excited I am by this.

    I think all of us who have ever visited can empathise with your joy at leaving Clitheroe.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited June 22

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    Farage’s primary appeal since he joined UKIP has been to precisely the people who wish we were still the world’s superpower with a vast empire and vast armed forces.

    Now we are a member of a defensive alliance cooperating to protect each other from the predations of a fascistic empire, and doing our bit.

    Oh and by the way we haven’t declared war on Russia. We are providing weapons to Ukraine. That’s all. Those who advocate withholding arms from Ukraine are advocating disarming a victim and enabling a genocide. Nothing less.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    I am shocked, another Reform candidate spouting bullshit about Jews and Muslims.

    Jews are “agitating” to import “third-world Muslims” into Britain, a Reform UK candidate said in an antisemitic diatribe.

    Ben Aston, the Reform hopeful in Bournemouth West, claimed that Jews were organising Muslim migration to Britain and said the government was deliberately “injecting” Britain with African men.

    He is polling at almost 20 per cent in the constituency, which the Tories are defending against Labour.

    Aston was selected to replace Peter Storms, who previously served in the Rhodesian police force and was removed as a candidate last month after posts online in which he appeared to share content from Britain First, a far-right group.

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/religion/article/jews-back-third-world-muslims-coming-to-uk-reform-candidate-said-gh3p0kmrg

    Strong **** down the pub on Friday after work vibes
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    edited June 22
    DavidL said:

    And we borrowed another £15bn in May https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmll7k8pl2xo

    More than we did last year. I am really not sure in what alternative world Hunt now lives but its nice that we are not so insolvent there.

    In this one our finances are continuing to deteriorate, we are consuming far more than we are earning, urgent cuts in public spending and tax rises are needed and several sacred cows are for the chopping block.

    Politicians of all stripes who say they will not increase taxes are LIARS.
    Politicians of all stripes who claim that they can fund better public services are LIARS.
    Politicians who claim debt is falling are...well you've got the idea by now.

    I genuinely cannot recall a political campaign where the competition seems to be who can stick their fingers in their ears the hardest to this extent. No wonder Reeves looks miserable all the time.

    I support your general view on this, but not your specifics.

    It is an indisputable, cold hard fact that the Bank of England's QT programme, in contrast to every other central bank, is being indemnified by the Treasury to the tune of 10s of billions - possibly up to £80bn a year.

    It is also true that with the rise in interest rates, the Bank is paying commercial banks a vast amount of interest on the QE deposits the commercials banks hold with them - money that the BOE itself printed. So they've printed a load of money, and are now paying (or we're paying) interest on that money at current base rates. That amounts to about £35bn a year - that's not as much of a scandal as the QT money, and at least if it goes in some banker's bonus packet, there's a small chance of it being recycled into the economy via car dealerships and restaurants. However, it is still a large chunk of optional spending - it is not done in every country; I believe it's another exception, not the norm.

    This means the Bank is effectively demanding a yearly sum that dwarves most Government departments, improving its own balance sheet, at the expense of the UK's fiscal position - and both the Government and the opposition, have maintained a trappist silence about it.

    You may think it unwise to stop paying this money, or to try to claw some back, in order to cut taxes or fund day-to-day spending commitments, and on some level you may be right, but what if the money were to be used to pay off some of the national debt? That would surely improve the Government's financial outlook, reduce future debt repayments, perhaps even improve the UK's credit rating. At the moment, we are borrowing on the money markets to finance these ludicrous BOE activities. It's insane.

    I give Reform (it's Tice highlighting these issues not NF) a lot of credit for making sorting this out part of their manifesto, and they deserve their tax plans to receive a fair hearing, as they have at least identified some real savings that aren't 'clamping down on benefit cheats' or some such nonsense.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    How far west would Russia have to come before it became of concern to you ?
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 22
    Farooq said:

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    That wasn't so much interfering in foreign disputes. We were the foreign disputes.
    Yes and we wern't going to let Johnny Kraut continue to go east and take them over. In other words there was a cold hard interest in doing so (whether we should have had all those foreign territories in the first place is another matter).
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    I am shocked, another Reform candidate spouting bullshit about Jews and Muslims.

    Jews are “agitating” to import “third-world Muslims” into Britain, a Reform UK candidate said in an antisemitic diatribe.

    Ben Aston, the Reform hopeful in Bournemouth West, claimed that Jews were organising Muslim migration to Britain and said the government was deliberately “injecting” Britain with African men.

    He is polling at almost 20 per cent in the constituency, which the Tories are defending against Labour.

    Aston was selected to replace Peter Storms, who previously served in the Rhodesian police force and was removed as a candidate last month after posts online in which he appeared to share content from Britain First, a far-right group.

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/religion/article/jews-back-third-world-muslims-coming-to-uk-reform-candidate-said-gh3p0kmrg

    Strong **** down the pub on Friday after work vibes
    The Jews want to import Muslims to the West is my favourite conspiracy theory.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,473
    Sandpit said:

    How sad.

    Sir Bradley Wiggins’s fall from cycling superstar to sofa surfer

    The financial troubles of the Olympic gold medallist and Britain’s first Tour de France winner have left him homeless and bankrupt


    Sitting on a gold throne after winning a fourth Olympic gold, Sir Bradley Wiggins was at the peak of a glittering career that catalysed a British cycling revolution.

    He was the first Briton to win the gruel­ling Tour de France, won five Olympic gold medals and built up an estimated net worth of £13 million.

    But little more than ten years on from London 2012, the hero affectionately dubbed “Sir Wiggo” has been left bankrupt and in effect homeless, “sofa surfing” between family and friends.

    His marriage has collapsed, his £975,000 family home has been repossessed and the Mallorca villa he once called a “home from home” is believed to have been lost in the scramble to cover his debts.

    He was even said to have spent some time living in a VW camper van, which was lent to him in return for social ­media posts and was later said to have been found “trashed” in a car park.

    A house he rented for six months in the Lancashire resort town of Lytham St Annes was allegedly left looking like a “dosshouse” with cigarette butts on the floor, according to a source.

    The bankruptcy means he may have to sell his Olympic medals to repay the debts. It is a sad downfall for a sporting hero who helped turn cycling from a niche sport into a national obsession. Wiggins is said to blame “the ‘professional negligence’ of others” and is considering legal action.


    https://www.thetimes.com/sport/cycling/article/sir-bradley-wigginss-fall-from-cycling-superstar-to-sofa-surfer-5v77h9jfx

    I've been following this for a while, and it seems another sad case of someone who excelled in one area being rather less excellent at managing money, and perhaps who to trust with his money. A situation made worse as his fame waned and doping allegations grew.
    So many sportsmen end up in a bad place after their career ends. It’s a combination of the sort of personality that’s dedicated to make it to the top of a sport in the first place, and achieving serious money and fame at a young age.

    When they retire, there’s suddenly a big hole in their lives and not much money coming in, many having little understanding of financial planning beyond advice from vested interests such as agents and managers.

    IIRC the Premier League clubs now employ finance advisors and wealth managers, to work with the players on making proper long-term investments.
    There's also the sheer change in hormones and erm, other chemicals, floating round the body and mind.
    It can tip into depression. As it can with giving up any regular substance.
  • How far West? No problem. We can cut a deal with him. Then he will break it like Hitler did.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Morning all! Woolies prophetic dream services bring you last nights election related dream. For some reason I dreamt last night the LDs will definitely retain Chesham and Amersham 'because of the votes in Chesham'
    Do your own research and snoozing!

    I dreamt Amersham swung blue because they realised Farage is the TRAITOR is this reality politics TV series, that sprung up on TV from nowhere 4 weeks ago, and is besties with Vladimir Puking (as the new improved AI Powered Natural House Dragon Speaking Software calks him)

    So there. Take a Dutch Salute this morning 🫡
    Greetings!

    Any hot political betting tips?, nudge nudge wink wink 😉

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,277
    I think Farages reverse takeover of the Tories has derailed this morning .

    Are the Tories really going to install a Putin apologist as Leader . The UK polling on Putin makes grim reading for those who think Farage can get away with his comments .

    It’s assumed that this was priced in but many voters simply didn’t know about Farages Putin love-in , political forums like this aren’t representative of the general public .

  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450

    Mercer part 94, this morning

    Now he was an Officer in the Special Boat Service? Has the world gone mad? You can literally make up anything you like about your life and media will buy it?! Provided you’re Labour I suppose..

    I hadn’t heard this story so googled it and this came up.

    It’s very carefully worded.

    He served “with” an SBS task force
    He had experience of the “special forces selection process”

    It’s reminiscent of Archer studying “in Oxford” not “at Oxford”. True but misleading.

    Wiki says he was a member of 29 Commando.

  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited June 22

    Roger said:

    I notice Moon Rabbit has gone uncharacteristically silent on her clairvoyance....
    Yes, I saw that coming, tbh.
    I’ve got a pig! Wilbur. 🐷

    He’s got a happy playful temperament. He’s got better ball control than the England football team. I’m currently house training him, but he also has a run outside with bushes to snork through and a den out there with blankets in. He got tubes and chews. I can hosepipe him and his mud. And I will take him foraging when I am sure he won’t run off and hide.

    Don’t mention the election and polling, and life is sweet!

    I have though been keeping an eye on things here, and as usual both of you couldn’t offer Labour decent political analysis at all, could you?

    Like this for example. People say how bad the Conservative campaign has been up till now, but history books will say this Labour election campaign is far worse than any campaign. Labours 2024 campaign will be known as the historically worst political campaign ever.

    Unlike Tories, massively busy in government, Labour haven’t had anything to do for 14 years, except prepare a campaign and manifesto, yet both these things are complete duds. This Labour campaign is utterly rubbish at rebutting straightforward weak attack lines, and they have done absolute zero going on the attack themselves.

    Take the “did you say Corbyn would be better PM than Boris, and try to get him into Downing Street” that absolutely floors Starmer and makes him look like a gibbering loon every time it is mentioned. Goodness, it’s so so flipping easy.
    “The question doesn’t understand how politics actually works. Blair supported Foot, Lady Thatcher supported Heath, yet when Blair was PM it was anything but Foot’s hard left utopian socialism, and when Margaret was PM it was game changing Thatcherism, not more Heathite wettism. As a leader or PrImeminister, you don’t regard yourself against previous leaders, but on what is needed now, today and the future.
    After 5 weeks of campaign, launch of all manifesto’s looking at the next 5 years, is this all you got to ask me - hypotheticals that are not even based on how politics actually works?”

    Easypeasy rebuttals Labour, you are so rubbish. 🤣
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    I am shocked, another Reform candidate spouting bullshit about Jews and Muslims.

    Jews are “agitating” to import “third-world Muslims” into Britain, a Reform UK candidate said in an antisemitic diatribe.

    Ben Aston, the Reform hopeful in Bournemouth West, claimed that Jews were organising Muslim migration to Britain and said the government was deliberately “injecting” Britain with African men.

    He is polling at almost 20 per cent in the constituency, which the Tories are defending against Labour.

    Aston was selected to replace Peter Storms, who previously served in the Rhodesian police force and was removed as a candidate last month after posts online in which he appeared to share content from Britain First, a far-right group.

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/religion/article/jews-back-third-world-muslims-coming-to-uk-reform-candidate-said-gh3p0kmrg

    Strong **** down the pub on Friday after work vibes
    The Jews want to import Muslims to the West is my favourite conspiracy theory.
    Chaim's Islamist Import Services owning the whole Islamist import and export industry.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Foxy said:

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
    Surprised to see you describe yourself as centre-right. I had you on the left of the spectrum.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    Accusations of Russia doing naughty things in Prague:
    https://x.com/_JakubJanda/status/1804407478689366329
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    Farooq said:

    I am shocked, another Reform candidate spouting bullshit about Jews and Muslims.

    Jews are “agitating” to import “third-world Muslims” into Britain, a Reform UK candidate said in an antisemitic diatribe.

    Ben Aston, the Reform hopeful in Bournemouth West, claimed that Jews were organising Muslim migration to Britain and said the government was deliberately “injecting” Britain with African men.

    He is polling at almost 20 per cent in the constituency, which the Tories are defending against Labour.

    Aston was selected to replace Peter Storms, who previously served in the Rhodesian police force and was removed as a candidate last month after posts online in which he appeared to share content from Britain First, a far-right group.

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/religion/article/jews-back-third-world-muslims-coming-to-uk-reform-candidate-said-gh3p0kmrg

    Can we be clear about this bit?

    A spokesman for Reform said its candidates were “not party political zombies” and that the party was “proud that they think and speak like the ordinary people they are”.

    Is that actually in light of the above racist nonsense, or is it an older quote? Because that, to me, is the most jaw-dropping thing in your post. "Reform candidate is a filthy racist" is really par for the course. But Reform responding in THAT way is a party endorsement of the racism. That's now canon.
    Older quote reused.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx77lvd6e73o
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Scott_xP said:

    15 hours since the comments aired, there is still no official Tory response

    Cleverly did say Farage is “echoing Putin’s vile justification for the brutal invasion of Ukraine”. But that’s it apart from Ben Wallace.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/22/nigel-farage-wallace-ukraine-war-comments-putin-uk-general-election-updates
  • What about the Pink Floyd guy. He is arrogant and likes Putin. Nige should team up with him!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,450
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two changes I’d make to gambling regulations:

    1. Companies not allowed to decide odds or max limits based on customer profiling.
    2. Companies not allowed to advertise on TV during sports events, nor to sponsor sports teams.

    1 seems unfair to the companies, frankly. Would any of us bet with someone you constantly lost to? They are not providing a public service.

    2, absolutely. We have gone far too far in removing restrictions on gambling and it causes serious harm.
    1. Will cost the bookies
    2. Will save them a fortune, and have the positive (for Labour) effect of annoying Sky TV.

    1. Is about fairness, as the back end data mining is as out of control as the advertising, but it’s not visible to the punters.
    If you think the probablily of some event happening is 10/1 and you decide to let people bet £100 on that outcome, then the bet should be available to anyone who wants it until weight of money makes you adjust the odds or the limit. That’s how the old-fashioned on-course bookies work. The large online companies will, as many here know, reduce you to pennies or close
    accounts arbitrarily, purely because you got
    a big win from them.
    So it is fair that you are allowed to use information on your betting track record but the companies are not allowed to use that information?

  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Unsurprising that Trumpian shill MrEd/TheKitchenCabinet/MisterBedfordshire turns out to be a Putinite apologist.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Roger said:

    I notice Moon Rabbit has gone uncharacteristically silent on her clairvoyance....
    Yes, I saw that coming, tbh.
    I’ve got a pig! Wilbur. 🐷

    He’s got a happy playful temperament. He’s got better ball control than the England football team. I’m currently house training him, but he also has a run outside with bushes to snork through and a den out there with blankets in. He got tubes and chews. I can hosepipe him and his mud. And I will take him foraging when I am sure he won’t run off and hide.

    Don’t mention the election and polling, and life is sweet!

    I have though been keeping an eye on things here, and as usual both of you couldn’t offer Labour decent political analysis at all, could you?

    Like this for example. People say how bad the Conservative campaign has been up till now, but history books will say this Labour election campaign is far worse than any campaign. Labours 2024 campaign will be known as the historically worst political campaign ever.

    Unlike Tories, massively busy in government, Labour haven’t had anything to do for 14 years, except prepare a campaign and manifesto, yet both these things are complete duds. This Labour campaign is utterly rubbish at rebutting straightforward weak attack lines, and they have done absolute zero going on the attack themselves.

    Take the “did you say Corbyn would be better PM than Boris, and try to get him into Downing Street” that absolutely floors Starmer and makes him look like a gibbering loon every time it is mentioned. Goodness, it’s so so flipping easy.
    “The question doesn’t understand how politics actually works. Blair supported Foot, Lady Thatcher supported Heath, yet when Blair was PM it was anything but Foot’s hard left utopian socialism, and when Margaret was PM it was game changing Thatcherism, not more Heathite wettism. As a leader or PrImeminister, you don’t regard yourself against previous leaders, but on what is needed now, today and the future.
    After 5 weeks of campaign, launch of all manifesto’s looking at the next 5 years, is this all you got to ask me - hypotheticals that are not even based on how politics actually works?”

    Easypeasy rebuttals Labour, you are so rubbish. 🤣
    "There are lumps of sewage floating in the River Thames that would make a better PM than Boris!"
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    How far west would Russia have to come before it became of concern to you ?
    Considering that it has taken Russia 3 years, 500 000 casualties, most of their modern tanks and artillery, a considerable proportion of their airforce and navy to take a few Donbas rustbelt colliery towns, their conventional threat is not something that we really need to get worried about. Their nuclear forces may be equally decrepit and dysfunctional but I would not want to find out.

    It's their subversion and destabilising effect on Western societies that is the real threat now, such as their hacking of the NHS blood results in London, and funding of far right and left groups across our societies, including Farage, Le Pen, AfD etc. We should not tolerate these "useful idiots".

    Incidentally, it looks like RN in France has taken down its Putin friendly defence and foreign policy documents from its website.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/



  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    Foxy said:

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
    Surprised to see you describe yourself as centre-right. I had you on the left of the spectrum.
    Foxy is hard to pigeonhole.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    I can sum up the last few weeks of UK politics better than anyone here. Since Farage came into the election campaign, the election gone pear shaped and stupid, but it’s not the Conservative Party fault, it’s the voters who got it wrong.

    Well done to Big G and others for understanding the situation and voting Conservative. They are the sensible sentient people responding to how stupid everyone else is being.

    The shift from Voting Conservative in the polls to voting Reform has been like waking up one morning, and realising all the people around you in your country are stupid completely clueless people. Unfortunately like in Nazi countries in history it’s mostly the uneducated and politically dumb working class people, so stupid they can only understand “the answers simple really” simpleton black and white solutions in politics, who are going to reform, and there’s not much we can do about it. 🤮 Reform are ignorant stupid people, but also so thick it makes them dangerous wrong uns who will put you against wall, or take over your party if you don’t kill them off in a civil war.

    fortunately the happy ending is James Cleverly and calvary of returning moderates Boris kicked out, let back into the party, is going to kill them off in the civil war of the right, and save us. 🫡
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,650

    What about the Pink Floyd guy. He is arrogant and likes Putin. Nige should team up with him!

    Comfortably dumb he is.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
    Surprised to see you describe yourself as centre-right. I had you on the left of the spectrum.
    Foxy is hard to pigeonhole.
    Clearly. The fact that he pigeonholes himself as centre-right is surprising enough.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    If Kane isn’t fit enough to play, why pick him ?
    I’m a footballing idiot, so maybe I’m missing something.

    England players not fit enough to press effectively, claims Gareth Southgate
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15 hours since the comments aired, there is still no official Tory response

    Cleverly did say Farage is “echoing Putin’s vile justification for the brutal invasion of Ukraine”. But that’s it apart from Ben Wallace.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/22/nigel-farage-wallace-ukraine-war-comments-putin-uk-general-election-updates
    Is Sunak in Putin's pocket too?
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789

    DavidL said:

    And we borrowed another £15bn in May https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmll7k8pl2xo

    More than we did last year. I am really not sure in what alternative world Hunt now lives but its nice that we are not so insolvent there.

    In this one our finances are continuing to deteriorate, we are consuming far more than we are earning, urgent cuts in public spending and tax rises are needed and several sacred cows are for the chopping block.

    Politicians of all stripes who say they will not increase taxes are LIARS.
    Politicians of all stripes who claim that they can fund better public services are LIARS.
    Politicians who claim debt is falling are...well you've got the idea by now.

    I genuinely cannot recall a political campaign where the competition seems to be who can stick their fingers in their ears the hardest to this extent. No wonder Reeves looks miserable all the time.

    I can't see how Reeves avoids becoming the most hated Labour chancellor of all time. I see that she has two routes to that destination, but I can't see any way to a different outcome. One of those routes involves a sovereign debt crisis, and the other doesn't. Her choice.
    She just needs to tax the wealthy more, it's not difficult. Many of them will hate her for it of course but they don't have the numbers to tip the balance against the masses.
    Taxing the wealthy more won't be enough. The current and near-future demands on the public finances are (in no particular order):

    1. Cutting the deficit.
    2. Continuing to find more money each year for the demographic transition.
    3. NHS
    4. Social Care
    5. Defence
    6. Public administration in general (local government, criminal justice system, etc)
    7. Infrastructure investment
    8. Education
    9. Growing the Economy

    It's a fearsome list. Reeves will have to choose. Choosing will make her unpopular.
    The choice will not be who gets hit as it will be everyone.

    The choice will be how much does each demographic get hit.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319

    Mercer part 94, this morning

    Now he was an Officer in the Special Boat Service? Has the world gone mad? You can literally make up anything you like about your life and media will buy it?! Provided you’re Labour I suppose..

    I hadn’t heard this story so googled it and this came up.

    It’s very carefully worded.

    He served “with” an SBS task force
    He had experience of the “special forces selection process”

    It’s reminiscent of Archer studying “in Oxford” not “at Oxford”. True but misleading.

    Wiki says he was a member of 29 Commando.

    Archer did a post-graduate education diploma at Brasenose so he's as much of an Oxford chap as Starmer. In other words, not very much. You have to violate a pig to be the real maccoy (apols to @Moonrabbit).
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723

    Unsurprising that Trumpian shill MrEd/TheKitchenCabinet/MisterBedfordshire turns out to be a Putinite apologist.

    John McClain welcome to the party pal gif
  • paulyork64paulyork64 Posts: 2,507

    Mercer part 94, this morning

    Now he was an Officer in the Special Boat Service? Has the world gone mad? You can literally make up anything you like about your life and media will buy it?! Provided you’re Labour I suppose..

    I hadn’t heard this story so googled it and this came up.

    It’s very carefully worded.

    He served “with” an SBS task force
    He had experience of the “special forces selection process”

    It’s reminiscent of Archer studying “in Oxford” not “at Oxford”. True but misleading.

    Wiki says he was a member of 29 Commando.

    I had experience of the Royal Navy officer selection process. I failed the Admiralty Interview Board.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15 hours since the comments aired, there is still no official Tory response

    Cleverly did say Farage is “echoing Putin’s vile justification for the brutal invasion of Ukraine”. But that’s it apart from Ben Wallace.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/22/nigel-farage-wallace-ukraine-war-comments-putin-uk-general-election-updates
    This does complicate the post election merger process. I can’t see a process by which Farage joins the conservatives now. He’d have to pick up chunks of Tory MPs defecting in the other direction.

    In any case even a small amount of swingback to government between now and a week on Thursday (which my £50 with Leon depends on) leaves them with enough seats to form a meaningful opposition, and probably leaves Reform with 2 or 3 at most.
  • Sunak. No. He loves America.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited June 22

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    "Hitler was wrong to invade Poland, and the Poles were wrong to deny him the Polish Corridor."
    The fascist, antisemitic Polish government was very unwise and foolish to join in when Hitler invaded Czechozlovakia and take a bit of Czechozlovakia themselves, and then to continue making life a misery through petty border policing, holding them up for hours, for Germans trying to cross between Danzig/East Prussia and "Mainland" Germany and refuse permission fornan autubahn through the corridor, thinking that their vast army would see off any trouble.

    Russia also invaded too and behaved utterly brutally but no one declared war on Russia and they got to keep much of the parts of Poland that had been in the Russian empire pre 1914.

    These things are never black and white like fairy tales.

    The first trick of statecraft is to avoid war in the first place.
    Well since war was not avoided how about we do the minimum and blame invaders for invading?

    This really is as clear cut a conflict as has been seen in generations - one side wanted to conquer, and has advanced contradictory excuses for it.

    And Farage supports the conquest by defending those excuses. Simple as.

    Most of the time things are not as straightforward as they appear. But sometimes they really are.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723

    Sunak. No. He loves America.

    America? or Trump?
  • Thick. Reform voters. The ones I have met are. Deeply unhappy within themsleves and haters. Not sure why they want to be on the planet.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Mercer part 94, this morning

    Now he was an Officer in the Special Boat Service? Has the world gone mad? You can literally make up anything you like about your life and media will buy it?! Provided you’re Labour I suppose..

    I hadn’t heard this story so googled it and this came up.

    It’s very carefully worded.

    He served “with” an SBS task force
    He had experience of the “special forces selection process”

    It’s reminiscent of Archer studying “in Oxford” not “at Oxford”. True but misleading.

    Wiki says he was a member of 29 Commando.

    I had experience of the Royal Navy officer selection process. I failed the Admiralty Interview Board.
    What were they so bad at that you needed to fail them?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    How far west would Russia have to come before it became of concern to you ?
    Considering that it has taken Russia 3 years, 500 000 casualties, most of their modern tanks and artillery, a considerable proportion of their airforce and navy to take a few Donbas rustbelt colliery towns, their conventional threat is not something that we really need to get worried about. Their nuclear forces may be equally decrepit and dysfunctional but I would not want to find out.

    It's their subversion and destabilising effect on Western societies that is the real threat now, such as their hacking of the NHS blood results in London, and funding of far right and left groups across our societies, including Farage, Le Pen, AfD etc. We should not tolerate these "useful idiots".

    Incidentally, it looks like RN in France has taken down its Putin friendly defence and foreign policy documents from its website.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/



    Learning from Meloni perhaps. You can be right wing without fellating Putin.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997

    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two changes I’d make to gambling regulations:

    1. Companies not allowed to decide odds or max limits based on customer profiling.
    2. Companies not allowed to advertise on TV during sports events, nor to sponsor sports teams.

    1 seems unfair to the companies, frankly. Would any of us bet with someone you constantly lost to? They are not providing a public service.

    2, absolutely. We have gone far too far in removing restrictions on gambling and it causes serious harm.
    1. Will cost the bookies
    2. Will save them a fortune, and have the positive (for Labour) effect of annoying Sky TV.

    1. Is about fairness, as the back end data mining is as out of control as the advertising, but it’s not visible to the punters.
    If you think the probablily of some event happening is 10/1 and you decide to let people bet £100 on that outcome, then the bet should be available to anyone who wants it until weight of money makes you adjust the odds or the limit. That’s how the old-fashioned on-course bookies work. The large online companies will, as many here know, reduce you to pennies or close
    accounts arbitrarily, purely because you got
    a big win from them.
    So it is fair that you are allowed to use information on your betting track record but the companies are not allowed to use that information?

    The information is massively asymmetric, unless you’re a full-time better running spreadsheets and simulations, yet they dishonestly represent this to their customers. Your average punter thinks they’re betting against a simple computerised version of the on-course bookie, but they’re actually competing against a vastly more complex computer modelling system that makes it almost impossible to win. It’s close to fraud, and it’s feeding increasing amount of addition which is public bad. We regulate other public bads such as cigarettes and alcohol advertising, and should regulate gambling advertising in a similar way.
  • Good question. America and American business as in Silicon valley etc. Trump, i cannot see much of a connection. He was schooled in America as many of our politicians are.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    edited June 22

    Foxy said:

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
    Surprised to see you describe yourself as centre-right. I had you on the left of the spectrum.
    I don't find that a useful distinction.

    I am dry as dust on financial and economic policy, Internationalist on foreign and environmental policy, liberal on social and cultural issues, though actually fairly socially conventional myself, being a church going family man.

    It's why I supported the Coalition government 2010-2015, and find Ed Davey closest to my political views.

    I couldn't run for office, I don't think there is a party that fits.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Nigelb said:

    If Kane isn’t fit enough to play, why pick him ?
    I’m a footballing idiot, so maybe I’m missing something.

    England players not fit enough to press effectively, claims Gareth Southgate
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate

    Southgate is ridiculous. He doesn’t seem to get that he’s got a load of subs he can use to change the game or add extra energy and seems to use the wrong ones, not enough of them or too late.

    And if Kane or others aren’t fully fit then start with players who are - the whole point of a squad.

    I have heard though from an insider that Gareth is so cautious he puts his phone on low power mode when the battery charge shows 99%.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    15 hours since the comments aired, there is still no official Tory response

    Cleverly did say Farage is “echoing Putin’s vile justification for the brutal invasion of Ukraine”. But that’s it apart from Ben Wallace.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/jun/22/nigel-farage-wallace-ukraine-war-comments-putin-uk-general-election-updates
    Is Sunak in Putin's pocket too?
    The comedy answer is "he'd fit easily enough".

    The serious answer is... Not deliberately, directly. But he has made himself dependent on people who are. And he's not characterful enough to renounce them.

    Besides. Anyone in the government is there, in part, because Farage held the door open in 2019. A possibly small but still decisive chunk of 2016's 52% were Faragists. Those who rode that particular tiger don't get to say that tigers are nothing to do with them, no siree.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    edited June 22
    boulay said:

    Nigelb said:

    If Kane isn’t fit enough to play, why pick him ?
    I’m a footballing idiot, so maybe I’m missing something.

    England players not fit enough to press effectively, claims Gareth Southgate
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate

    Southgate is ridiculous. He doesn’t seem to get that he’s got a load of subs he can use to change the game or add extra energy and seems to use the wrong ones, not enough of them or too late.

    And if Kane or others aren’t fully fit then start with players who are - the whole point of a squad.

    I have heard though from an insider that Gareth is so cautious he puts his phone on low power mode when the battery charge shows 99%.
    I heard his go to meal deal is ham sandwich, bottle of water, ready salted crisps.
  • Football. I would love Englad to win. Can we do it?
  • England!
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    Roger said:

    I notice Moon Rabbit has gone uncharacteristically silent on her clairvoyance....
    Labours inability to attack the Tories is pathetic, as this is ensuring Labour gets far worse result than they should have got at this election. BJO probably right in this one thing ever, attacking Tories in campaigns was definitely better under Corbyn’s leadership.

    it’s suspicious why Labours attacks so rare and toothless, and this is where I am ahead of the game as usual. The most self servicing parliament of MPs, VIP lanes giving eye watering contracts to mates and Landlords whose never had anything to do with medical PPE equipments in their lives.
    Fact!
    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/apr/22/fifth-of-uk-covid-contracts-raised-red-flags-for-possible-corruption
    Yet Labour suspiciously quiet, and why is that? Is it did they have access to those VIP lanes too, for their croneys and chums? Yes they did! That explains Labours silence on the most obvious and damaging attack line to use.

    Fact. Labour are being damaged by the sleaze and corruption of MPs in this parliament, yet make zero effort to distance themselves from it or attack Tory sleaze and corruption. Labour = conspiracy of silence on the corruption, because fact is Labour is in up to their eyebrows in this parliaments sleaze.
    Why else wouldn’t they use this attack?

    What do you say to that spot on analysis? Why don’t Labour attack on the tax payer money wasted? Why don’t Labour make more effort to point out its Tory corruption that gave all politicians seem sleazy, not them. Becuase they’ve too much to hide. I’m right again arn’t I.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789
    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    How far west would Russia have to come before it became of concern to you ?
    Considering that it has taken Russia 3 years, 500 000 casualties, most of their modern tanks and artillery, a considerable proportion of their airforce and navy to take a few Donbas rustbelt colliery towns, their conventional threat is not something that we really need to get worried about. Their nuclear forces may be equally decrepit and dysfunctional but I would not want to find out.

    It's their subversion and destabilising effect on Western societies that is the real threat now, such as their hacking of the NHS blood results in London, and funding of far right and left groups across our societies, including Farage, Le Pen, AfD etc. We should not tolerate these "useful idiots".

    Incidentally, it looks like RN in France has taken down its Putin friendly defence and foreign policy documents from its website.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/



    I would suggest that the 'everything is broken' claims followed by a 'no changes apart from VAT on private schools' strategy also plays into the hands of those who wish to destabilise this country.
  • Moon Rabbit. You make a good point.
  • James_MJames_M Posts: 103
    @Cookie Enjoy your time up north in the wonderful East Lancashire and North Yorkshire. Best part of the country.

    I will not dignify the critique of Clitheroe with much of a response. A fine town that educated me for two years. Home to some cracking pubs/bars too. And the delightful Stansfields hot beef sandwich.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    DavidL said:

    Sandpit said:

    Two changes I’d make to gambling regulations:

    1. Companies not allowed to decide odds or max limits based on customer profiling.
    2. Companies not allowed to advertise on TV during sports events, nor to sponsor sports teams.

    1 seems unfair to the companies, frankly. Would any of us bet with someone you constantly lost to? They are not providing a public service.

    2, absolutely. We have gone far too far in removing restrictions on gambling and it causes serious harm.
    David, 1. is stacked in bookies favour , whole point is it is a gamble, fact bookies just restrict it so only they can win is wrong
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Moon Rabbit. You make a good point.

    Indeed a multiplicity of good points.

    It's like James Joyce is reincarnated as a political punter.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Nigelb said:

    If Kane isn’t fit enough to play, why pick him ?
    I’m a footballing idiot, so maybe I’m missing something.

    England players not fit enough to press effectively, claims Gareth Southgate
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate

    As a non-expert, my first thought was that our players looked knackered but the venue was not hot, humid and halfway up a mountain.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Sandpit said:

    DavidL said:

    And we borrowed another £15bn in May https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cmll7k8pl2xo

    More than we did last year. I am really not sure in what alternative world Hunt now lives but its nice that we are not so insolvent there.

    In this one our finances are continuing to deteriorate, we are consuming far more than we are earning, urgent cuts in public spending and tax rises are needed and several sacred cows are for the chopping block.

    Politicians of all stripes who say they will not increase taxes are LIARS.
    Politicians of all stripes who claim that they can fund better public services are LIARS.
    Politicians who claim debt is falling are...well you've got the idea by now.

    I genuinely cannot recall a political campaign where the competition seems to be who can stick their fingers in their ears the hardest to this extent. No wonder Reeves looks miserable all the time.

    I can't see how Reeves avoids becoming the most hated Labour chancellor of all time. I see that she has two routes to that destination, but I can't see any way to a different outcome. One of those routes involves a sovereign debt crisis, and the other doesn't. Her choice.
    She just needs to tax the wealthy more, it's not difficult. Many of them will hate her for it of course but they don't have the numbers to tip the balance against the masses.
    It all comes down to how she defines “wealthy”.
    For labour that means workers, workshy and rich will be well looked after
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Purge
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Mr. Eagles, demands for a 35% pay hike is mental at the best of times. In current circumstances it's crazy.

    One more problem for the incoming Labour Government to deal with.

    greedy overprivileged barstewards
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Roger said:

    I notice Moon Rabbit has gone uncharacteristically silent on her clairvoyance....
    Nah, like a stopped clock etc, or did you miss their months of spamming about a May election?

    You may have missed it because I am modest and I don't like to brag, I tipped a July election at 20s.
    no point replying “same old loon rabbit, never change” like often @TSE - because you know I always head the game on political insight and analysis and first on those things people failed to spot and realise.

    And this simple logic and math is such example. If you look at the comparative piddly amounts of money being endlessly argued over in this campaign and manifestos, £7B black hole here, £1.5 tax grab there -
    But £7.94 billion ALONE got wasted on overpriced, unsuitable and unused PPE - one example Sterile surgical gowns provided by PPE Medpro under a £122 MILLION contract and were never ever USEABLE
    Rishi Sunak handed billions of pounds of tax payers money straight over to fraudsters and criminal underworld gangs, simply by being incompetent at running a furlough scheme - THAT SAME furlough scheme he’s trying to dine out on as his USP. Fact!
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9738735/Fraud-blunders-Covid-support-schemes-cost-taxpayers-30bn-MPs-warn.html

    Sheer scale of profligate with tax payers money in this parliament - biggest credit crunch ever yet Fifty million on a new helicopter for MPs to fly around in - WTF Labour should be on the attack, daily - No Tory government has ever been so free and wasteful with tax payers money, yet Labour havn’t used this attack AT ALL. 🤷‍♀️. Why that eh?
    I’ll tell you. Labour campaign is rubbish as voters see Labour in up to their eyebrows in this parliaments sleaze. Labour = conspiracy of silence on the waste and corruption of the last 5 years. Simples.

    Political sleaze, and Labours limp attempt to differentiate themselves from it, is the big narrative to drag Labours support down even further before polling day. History books say Labour flopped an opportunity in 2024 election, because Labour didn’t differentiate themselves on sleazy time politicians have had in it, and Labour left themselves seen as much the same. And that is so funny. 🙂

    Funnier still, the big take out from this campaign not made any of your headers.

    I’m off to play with Wilbur 🙋‍♀️
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Foxy said:

    TimS said:

    I see Farage is doubling down.

    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    ·
    10h
    I am one of the few figures that have been consistent & honest about the war with Russia.

    Putin was wrong to invade a sovereign nation, and the EU was wrong to expand eastward.

    The sooner we realise this, the closer we will be to ending the war and delivering peace.

    Of course he is. He has done it again. He has set off a s***storm infuriating fashionable opinion and getting ubiquitous publicity with all the fury, with fashionable opinions glee that he has "ratnered" himself then turning in the following days to dispair as they find it is actually making him more popular as millions are fed up with our leaders wasting our money trying to be world policeman interfering in foreign disputes, and think "anyway, at least Putin dosent allow all that trans bollocks in Russia".
    “Trying to be world policemen interfering in foreign disputes”.

    “A quarrel in a faraway country between people of whom we know nothing”.
    We were the worlds superpower then with a vast empire and vast armed forces. We are not now
    How far west would Russia have to come before it became of concern to you ?
    Considering that it has taken Russia 3 years, 500 000 casualties, most of their modern tanks and artillery, a considerable proportion of their airforce and navy to take a few Donbas rustbelt colliery towns, their conventional threat is not something that we really need to get worried about. Their nuclear forces may be equally decrepit and dysfunctional but I would not want to find out.

    It's their subversion and destabilising effect on Western societies that is the real threat now, such as their hacking of the NHS blood results in London, and funding of far right and left groups across our societies, including Farage, Le Pen, AfD etc. We should not tolerate these "useful idiots".

    Incidentally, it looks like RN in France has taken down its Putin friendly defence and foreign policy documents from its website.

    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-far-right-manifesto-russia-nato-national-rally/



    I would suggest that the 'everything is broken' claims followed by a 'no changes apart from VAT on private schools' strategy also plays into the hands of those who wish to destabilise this country.
    Yes, they’ve not managed the messaging very well. Hard to say it’s been disastrous given the state of the polls mind.

    Blair managed to engender a feeling of excitement and optimism despite having very little concrete on offer in the manifesto. I think the difference was partly personality, partly the fact the country was feeling quite optimistic anyway as it entered a period of strong growth.

    Stuff was broken in 1997, but looked eminently fixable.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Nigelb said:

    If Kane isn’t fit enough to play, why pick him ?
    I’m a footballing idiot, so maybe I’m missing something.

    England players not fit enough to press effectively, claims Gareth Southgate
    https://www.theguardian.com/football/article/2024/jun/21/england-players-fitness-pressing-gareth-southgate

    As a non-expert, my first thought was that our players looked knackered but the venue was not hot, humid and halfway up a mountain.
    Last night both Dutch and French looked a lot more capable than England at both possession and a pressing defence.

    I really cannot see this England team winning. A team is more than individual talent, it needs a level of surrender of ego in order to function, and the inability to do that has long been England's football curse.
  • Moon Rabbit. You make a good point.

    Its an interesting theory. More likely Lab are worried about making a rod for their own backs in the future. Lab don't need to sell the 'Cons are corrupt' narrative as everyone have already worked that one out. Its more important to sell the 'Cons are all useless Tunas' narrative which has been working rather well - with the support of the Cons themselves of course.
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,360
    Am I the only one who thinks it is fine for bookies to restrict winning punters' stakes? It doesn't seem unfair to me.

    Side note - isn't betfair generally the place to get the best odds?
  • Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,950
    Mr. Eagles, it's certainly an original conspiracy lunacy, claiming Jews are trying to get more third world immigrants into the same country as them. So points for creativity, at least.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,789

    Roger said:

    I notice Moon Rabbit has gone uncharacteristically silent on her clairvoyance....
    Nah, like a stopped clock etc, or did you miss their months of spamming about a May election?

    You may have missed it because I am modest and I don't like to brag, I tipped a July election at 20s.
    no point replying “same old loon rabbit, never change” like often @TSE - because you know I always head the game on political insight and analysis and first on those things people failed to spot and realise.

    And this simple logic and math is such example. If you look at the comparative piddly amounts of money being endlessly argued over in this campaign and manifestos, £7B black hole here, £1.5 tax grab there -
    But £7.94 billion ALONE got wasted on overpriced, unsuitable and unused PPE - one example Sterile surgical gowns provided by PPE Medpro under a £122 MILLION contract and were never ever USEABLE
    Rishi Sunak handed billions of pounds of tax payers money straight over to fraudsters and criminal underworld gangs, simply by being incompetent at running a furlough scheme - THAT SAME furlough scheme he’s trying to dine out on as his USP. Fact!
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9738735/Fraud-blunders-Covid-support-schemes-cost-taxpayers-30bn-MPs-warn.html

    Sheer scale of profligate with tax payers money in this parliament - biggest credit crunch ever yet Fifty million on a new helicopter for MPs to fly around in - WTF Labour should be on the attack, daily - No Tory government has ever been so free and wasteful with tax payers money, yet Labour havn’t used this attack AT ALL. 🤷‍♀️. Why that eh?
    I’ll tell you. Labour campaign is rubbish as voters see Labour in up to their eyebrows in this parliaments sleaze. Labour = conspiracy of silence on the waste and corruption of the last 5 years. Simples.

    Political sleaze, and Labours limp attempt to differentiate themselves from it, is the big narrative to drag Labours support down even further before polling day. History books say Labour flopped an opportunity in 2024 election, because Labour didn’t differentiate themselves on sleazy time politicians have had in it, and Labour left themselves seen as much the same. And that is so funny. 🙂

    Funnier still, the big take out from this campaign not made any of your headers.

    I’m off to play with Wilbur 🙋‍♀️
    Perhaps the problem is that government spending is now well over a TRILLION quid a year.

    Which means that mere MILLIONS are two orders of magnitude down on the monetary scale.

    And seemingly trivial at government level but not to ordinary people who think in THOUSANDS.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    I have not been closely following the Mercer stuff, what's the consensus, is he toast over this?

    He was already toast, this is just the charcoal on top.
    Surprised to see you describe yourself as centre-right. I had you on the left of the spectrum.
    I don't find that a useful distinction.

    I am dry as dust on financial and economic policy, Internationalist on foreign and environmental policy, liberal on social and cultural issues, though actually fairly socially conventional myself, being a church going family man.

    It's why I supported the Coalition government 2010-2015, and find Ed Davey closest to my political views.

    I couldn't run for office, I don't think there is a party that fits.
    Fair enough, I was just surprised that you yourself categorised yourself as centre-right.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    RiChi is soooo angry about the betting scandal, he is going to do fuck all about it and let everybody carry on as they were.

    Can't wait to see him going full Tonto on Nigel Fucking Farage...
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Mr. Eagles, it's certainly an original conspiracy lunacy, claiming Jews are trying to get more third world immigrants into the same country as them. So points for creativity, at least.

    Hardly original. The "Great Replacement" is a fairly old school anti-semitic trope that has roots as far back as the Protocols of the Elders of Zion.

    It makes a change from left wing anti-semitism I suppose.
This discussion has been closed.