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There’s certainly no herding on today’s MRPs – politicalbetting.com

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  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    GIN1138 said:


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    SKS fans had better explain and it'd better be good...
    Matt Goodwin Fans Please Explain
    Does Matt Goodwin have any fans?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,629
    Now would be a good time to repeat my premonition that the Portillo moment will be a prominent Labour MP in a Leave constituency losing unexpectedly to Reform.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Well done Scotland
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901

    Now would be a good time to repeat my premonition that the Portillo moment will be a prominent Labour MP in a Leave constituency losing unexpectedly to Reform.

    It absolutely will happen if the Farage surge is genuine
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    I think all the PBers claiming that this is a fraudulent poll are treading on very thin ice. OGH had a firm rule that you do NOT impugn pollsters without serious evidence, esp if they are members of the BPC (I presume they are?)

    I doubt @rcs1000 and @TSE want a libel action

    Unlike most of the other pollsters People Polling are untested at a general election.

    They have also had to revise some of their previous polls because they cocked up their data tables/spreadsheets.

    The other issue is People Polling's supplementaries have been openly discussed by other pollsters and polling experts as being so one sided as to be utterly irrelevant.
    Then how come they are memnbers of the BPC? Surely they should be expelled?

    Serious question. Because a fraudulent poll if exploded at the right time could actually change the direction of the elevtion, eg a poll which showed Reform easily and dramatically overtaking the Tories

    Which this does

    IF this is shown to be fraudulent then the coppers need to feel collars, this is serious shit
    Well, once they've placed a couple of bets..
    Indeed


  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    SKS fans had better explain and it'd better be good...
    Matt Goodwin Fans Please Explain
    Does Matt Goodwin have any fans?
    Mrs Goodwin?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    I don’t see anything strange from the data tables . My only question is what order they were asked . I’d be surprised if they didn’t go with the normal sequencing as that would lead to bias .

    We’ll know soon enough whether this is an outlier . Certainly it might wake up both Labour and the Tories in particular to start going after Reform .
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,361

    Leon said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    **** Jeopardy ****

    Which single was released in 1963 by the Surfaris
    It's a PeoplePolling "poll"

    A single released in 1997 by Shania Twain is more relevant.
    Are you claiming that People Polling are lying fraudsters, producing bogus figures?
    I think they've started with a conclusion they want and worked backwards to find a method to get it.

    As untested and as much credibility as Trafalgar which was rightly and roundly mocked whenever its polls were quoted here.
    No. RCS Found evidence that Trafalgar figures were actually falsified, and not a single member of the public contracted to generate them.

    People Polling use an online panel from a different polling form to collect their sample. They might be doing something very wrong, but no-one has presented any evidence to suggest that the results are fake or skewed.

    I don't much care for Goodwin's political commentary, but I think you're out of order to equate these polls with Trafalgar without any evidence.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    It's safe to say that the one thing the election will do is lead to a debate about what conservatism or the political right in general ought to look like in the current world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,943
    Leon said:

    Several of us have speculated that Tory/Reform polling might reach a tipping point where voting Tory is seen as a waste of time and Reform as the tactical vote to stop Labour. Is it really a surprise that it might happen? And Reform have just had a lot of coverage of their manifesto, which will have been attractive to the credulous and disgruntled. Is it really a surprise that someone promising lots of free giveaways will win support?

    It might prove to be a bubble, but I think it's completely unwarranted for people to suggest that this poll result is fabricated, without a scintilla of evidence.

    The Tories are almost completely unwilling to criticise Farage. Many of them wish they had had the foresight or courage to have defected to him earlier, when they had the chance. Is it a surprise that Reform should do well in the polls when they receive a free pass from much of one of the parties that should be opposing them?

    Good point. Is this a Manifesto effect?


    On my fam Whatsapp a member of my fam who is centrist Tory (voted Blair at his peak) said this

    "I am afraid to admit I agree with almost everything in the Reform manifesto"

    It surprised me at the time
    To go back to what I was talking about earlier, I think it's the cordon sanitaire being broken. Just as it has been in France.

    When none of your friends and family are willing to own up to being Farage supporters, you keep schtum. Once one or two come out and say it, and you've been leaning that way for a while, you go "yeah, actually I think they make a lot of sense, too..." and it becomes a bit of an I am Spartacus moment for all the people who've read the RefUK manifesto and gone, that makes a lot of sense actually.

    And then it goes from being a network effect to becoming a snowball effect. The right wing press switch allegiances. "Only Reform can stop Labour" etc, and all of a sudden you have crossover, and you have Nige as the LOTO in next month's time.

    Will it happen? Probably not. COULD it happen at this point? Absolutely.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    If Reform have done well, I guess we’ll see it in the first few NE seats. By “well” I mean the difference between the 14/15 many of us have priced in and right teens/low twenties we see in some polls.

    That feels like the prime opportunity to make money.
  • Come on, Scotland, this is what the people want.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    SKS fans had better explain and it'd better be good...
    Matt Goodwin Fans Please Explain
    Does Matt Goodwin have any fans?
    I misread that as Only Fans and rather wish I hadn't.
  • MisterBedfordshireMisterBedfordshire Posts: 2,252
    edited June 19

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    Can Scotland progress out of the group without any Scotland player actually scoring a goal?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,629
    biggles said:

    If Reform have done well, I guess we’ll see it in the first few NE seats. By “well” I mean the difference between the 14/15 many of us have priced in and right teens/low twenties we see in some polls.

    That feels like the prime opportunity to make money.

    A preview of the early declarations:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c120CRw_tdw
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    nico679 said:

    I don’t see anything strange from the data tables . My only question is what order they were asked . I’d be surprised if they didn’t go with the normal sequencing as that would lead to bias .

    We’ll know soon enough whether this is an outlier . Certainly it might wake up both Labour and the Tories in particular to start going after Reform .

    Tories have tried and failed to do that. Catastrophically. Labour will sneer at Farage and the voters. Also catastrophic.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056
    algarkirk said:

    I'm probably going to vote for Reform. Possible I might vote Labour to ensure the wet who is standing for Mid Beds is defeated.

    But probably I will vote Reform to kick them all in the nuts. The pompous prattle here that farage is Mosley/Hitler/Sundry Fascist is making my mind up.

    Centrist liberals disagreeing with non centrist liberal views is one thing. Centrist liberals considering non centrist liberal views as beneath contempt and ideally disbarred is another matter entirely.

    I hope they do well enough to destroy the Conservative Party and take over what remains, turning it into a less economically right wing and more socially right wing party. Along the lines of places like South Korea, and (modern) Japan. Not Nazi Germany.


    Good luck. I don't think Farage is a fascist, though I think some fascists will vote for him. He is horrible but not horrible enough to be a fascist. He is only very doubtfully a 'liberal'. His defence of Trump in deeply illiberal matters is enough to cause real doubt. His manifesto nods very clearly to QAnon style conspiracy theorists, and the ones I know believe he is their man. A person is judged in part by the company he keeps.

    BTW the number of people who want the UK to be a Japan/S Korea style society is small.
    If we get Japanese quality of food, I’m in.
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696
    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    As an ardent Lib Dem I’ve never been more politically excited than during the Cleggasm stage of the 2010 election campaign. I was staying with my uncle at the time who was a massive Labour supporter and the banter was just incredible. Of course election night was like coming down from a massive sugar rush.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.
    I read what you wrote and it is unacceptable and shocking

    And to think last night I confirmed my youngest son has just been appointed as a Llandudno Inshore Lifeboat helm, much to the family's pride and many on here liking my post, and you want him and his colleague to attend the deliberate sinking of a boat with all the trauma for those concerned
  • NovoNovo Posts: 60
    Nunu5 said:

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    That's not a million miles away from the hypothetical I posted a few days ago:

    image
    So who gets to sit as the LotO if two parties have the same number of seats? Which is incredibly likely!
    Any Alliance seats in NI might be crucial!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    biggles said:

    If Reform have done well, I guess we’ll see it in the first few NE seats. By “well” I mean the difference between the 14/15 many of us have priced in and right teens/low twenties we see in some polls.

    That feels like the prime opportunity to make money.

    A preview of the early declarations:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c120CRw_tdw
    Will never forget that moment.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862

    SCOTLAND 1-0

    Switzerland fans please explain

    Sadly Scotland will now just try and sit on it until the end, thus ruining the match.

    Meanwhile I’ve been watching the local hustings for my constituency and have come away not wanting to vote for any of them.
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    There must if been a first pollnshowing LEAVE ahead
    Man these have been some very turbulent times in British politics
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Bollocks.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    The thing is, after all the crazy things that have happened since 2016, you wouldn't entirely discount the chance of something crazy happening again...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Stereodog said:

    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    As an ardent Lib Dem I’ve never been more politically excited than during the Cleggasm stage of the 2010 election campaign. I was staying with my uncle at the time who was a massive Labour supporter and the banter was just incredible. Of course election night was like coming down from a massive sugar rush.
    The Cleggasm was quite something, HOWEVER it did not presage the extinction of one of the two major parties. This does, so I suggest this is even bigger
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
    Drivel.

    Your post called for leaders to do "indecent things ... for the greater good".
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,989
    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    Remember the Cleggasm polls briefly showing the Lib Dems winning.

    Admittedly the protagonist was less notorious at the time, but it was a bigger surge.

    I’m not convinced the Peoplepolling result is fabricated. It could well be real, even if the methodology isn’t top notch. It was taken in a day after the Reform unicorn manifesto that promised 2 Trusses-worth of unfunded tax cuts and spending increases, funded by tens of billions of “civil service efficiencies”.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    1-1.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,250
    EPG said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.

    It's called blackmail to threaten killings if you don't get your way.
    Prime ministers are the people we appoint to do the things we do t want to do, but know that we must
  • DoubleDutchDoubleDutch Posts: 161

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    It's blood exciting. Although no one who cares about Britain should want to see Reform take power.

  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,862
    edited June 19
    1:1

    Great shot, the match is back on
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Scottish Goalkeepers
  • The bloody Swiss.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Och

    Enter Shakiri
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056
    Nunu5 said:

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    That's not a million miles away from the hypothetical I posted a few days ago:

    image
    So who gets to sit as the LotO if two parties have the same number of seats? Which is incredibly likely!
    Alliance would caucus with the LibDems (to use an Americanism) and the LibDems would become the official opposition. Farage has pissed off both the TUV and DUP, so no help there.

    Or, probably, they’d just change the Commons rules to share PMQs etc.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,666
    Scott_xP said:

    Can Scotland progress out of the group without any Scotland player actually scoring a goal?

    No. They could go home without any Scotland player scoring a goal though.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652

    EPG said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.

    It's called blackmail to threaten killings if you don't get your way.
    Prime ministers are the people we appoint to do the things we do t want to do, but know that we must
    No, they also obey the law. Did you learn human rights law from the wrong side in A Few Good Men?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284

    biggles said:

    If Reform have done well, I guess we’ll see it in the first few NE seats. By “well” I mean the difference between the 14/15 many of us have priced in and right teens/low twenties we see in some polls.

    That feels like the prime opportunity to make money.

    A preview of the early declarations:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c120CRw_tdw
    She wasn't a happy camper was she? :D
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
    Drivel.

    Your post called for leaders to do "indecent things ... for the greater good".
    He'd shit his kecks if PM Starmer did an indecent thing like order the execution of all Reform voters for the greater good (of stopping Putin defenders from being elected.)
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    Labours game seems to be avoid talking about Reform . Labour want Reform to do well as there’s only so many Labour voters that would move over to them and they don’t want to inadvertently frighten Tory to Reform voters .

    This is a risky game because if the Tory vote completely collapses then Reform might start taking many more seats than currently forecast .
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,034
    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    That this kind of thinking is considered acceptable in some quarters is the consequence of the government demonising migrants for their own political advantage. They richly deserve to be wiped out.

    Farage and Reform certainly but I fear we are witnessing a growing and worrying descent into the sewer of hard right politics
  • James_MJames_M Posts: 103
    edited June 19
    I don't think enough voters are following the election closely, nevermind polls to consciously decide the Tories are doomed and thus Reform is the best place for their vote. I still think the campaign hasn't fundamentally changed much. Labour will win and win well. The Tories will be a poor second, Lib Dems heading back towards 2005 uplands. Probably 40/25/12/12. Perhaps I should enter the competition?!

    Campaign update in my Con/Lib Dem battle. Nothing from Labour or Reform. 1 leaflet from an independent, three from the tories, 5 from the Lib Dems. No door knockers.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    Bloody hell.

    Is this for real?
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191

    biggles said:

    If Reform have done well, I guess we’ll see it in the first few NE seats. By “well” I mean the difference between the 14/15 many of us have priced in and right teens/low twenties we see in some polls.

    That feels like the prime opportunity to make money.

    A preview of the early declarations:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c120CRw_tdw
    Will never forget that moment.
    Houghton and Sunderland South is the first big leave seat up
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Andy_JS said:

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    Bloody hell.

    Is this for real?
    yes
  • Nunu5Nunu5 Posts: 964
    Imagine ......

    Reform GAIN Sunderland Central
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997

    Here's what Dr Will Jennings who is the elections/pollster expert for Sky News has Tweeted.

    Amazing that the ‘pollster’ who has been touring around the country after Nigel Farage has managed to put the party within 10 points of Labour.

    https://x.com/drjennings/status/1803499720805122146

    Is Thrasher no longer doing this job for Sky News?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Caledonia 1, Helvatia 1
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    The thing is, after all the crazy things that have happened since 2016, you wouldn't entirely discount the chance of something crazy happening again...
    Leon for PM!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    Who did he poll, the audience from Nigel Farage direct event last night?
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Has anyone seen any analysis on where voter registration ended up compared to previous years?
  • PedestrianRockPedestrianRock Posts: 580
    I keep thinking that ‘polls beget polls’.

    We need to be cognisant that not many people are political junkies like us.

    But if tweets like this get traction amongst the less politically engaged, they might become reality, from Tories thinking “Well, I guess ONLY REFUK CAN BEAT LABOUR NOW” a la the Lib Dem leaflets of old.

    https://x.com/reformparty_uk/status/1803504934547038538?s=46

    I’m not saying Goodwin's poll is reliable. BUT unlike many today its fieldwork is much more new (just June 18)

    To put a counterfactual on it, if this were going to be Canada 1993, what further signs would we need than what we have seen so far?
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370
    eek said:

    Going through that spreadsheet (for what it is) I find it very strange that only 33% of Reform voters voted for Brexit in 2016....

    People Polling have either picked up a set of people who are missed by all other polls, discovered a trend before everyone else or have sampled a very strange set of people...

    So a closer look and it seems that the Reform vote is based on Brexit voters switching to Reform from Don't know and won't vote.

    which may well mean that a significant proportion are either none voters who will vote this time round or will again sit things out. But as Nigel didn't stand in Tory seats in the last election it's perfectly possible he's bringing none voters back into the polling booth.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Nunu5 said:

    Imagine ......

    Reform GAIN Sunderland Central

    I do wonder what a black swan involving a lot of refugees arriving on the south coast in increasingly nice weather could do.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    I note @williamglenn has declined my bet.

    Funny old world!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    edited June 19

    Here's what Dr Will Jennings who is the elections/pollster expert for Sky News has Tweeted.

    Amazing that the ‘pollster’ who has been touring around the country after Nigel Farage has managed to put the party within 10 points of Labour.

    https://x.com/drjennings/status/1803499720805122146

    Is Thrasher no longer doing this job for Sky News?
    He will do election night stuff.

    But Dr Jennings does the stats between elections.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,284
    ohnotnow said:

    GIN1138 said:

    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    The thing is, after all the crazy things that have happened since 2016, you wouldn't entirely discount the chance of something crazy happening again...
    Leon for PM!
    I wouldn't go quite that far... ;)
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    SKS fans had better explain and it'd better be good...
    Matt Goodwin Fans Please Explain
    Does Matt Goodwin have any fans?
    @AndyJS on here - inexplicably
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    I love VAR.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,629
    Nunu5 said:

    Imagine ......

    Reform GAIN Sunderland Central

    It's doable. 2019 result:

    Labour: 42.2%
    Conservative: 35.4%
    Brexit Party: 11.6%
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th
    Sample: 1,228 British adults

    https://x.com/GoodwinMJ/status/1803492522116915232

    Bloody hell.

    Is this for real?
    yes
    No.
  • maaarshmaaarsh Posts: 3,590
    biggles said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Imagine ......

    Reform GAIN Sunderland Central

    I do wonder what a black swan involving a lot of refugees arriving on the south coast in increasingly nice weather could do.
    Odds on cranks saying Putin is funding crossings to destabilise the UK at some point in the next fortnight?
  • Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
    Drivel.

    Your post called for leaders to do "indecent things ... for the greater good".
    That was to deport illegal enterers of military age to Kigali. Not to sink their boats.
  • TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.
    I read what you wrote and it is unacceptable and shocking

    And to think last night I confirmed my youngest son has just been appointed as a Llandudno Inshore Lifeboat helm, much to the family's pride and many on here liking my post, and you want him and his colleague to attend the deliberate sinking of a boat with all the trauma for those concerned
    That is totally misrepresenting my words. I did not advocate any such thing.

    I agree that is shocking that such views exist but they do, and part of statecraft is to take more moderate action to ensure that those who would don't have a big enough greviance to latch onto to get into power.
  • pingping Posts: 3,805
    I'd go:

    Reform to poll >=24% in any other legitimate poll during the remainder of the campaign;

    Yes 4/1
    No 1/4

    Anyone fancy arguing the toss?
  • StereodogStereodog Posts: 696
    Leon said:

    Stereodog said:

    Leon said:

    C’mon, this is POLITICS. How can you not love this?

    Because they are now terrified. lol

    THIS IS THE BEST ELECTION EVER

    Also, this is the most dramatic UK election poll I can remember in my adult life

    Does anything compare? The poll showing YES ahead in Sindyref, but that was a referendum

    Even if this is an outlier (and I suspect it it) it is enormously entertaining, as you say
    As an ardent Lib Dem I’ve never been more politically excited than during the Cleggasm stage of the 2010 election campaign. I was staying with my uncle at the time who was a massive Labour supporter and the banter was just incredible. Of course election night was like coming down from a massive sugar rush.
    The Cleggasm was quite something, HOWEVER it did not presage the extinction of one of the two major parties. This does, so I suggest this is even bigger
    I think at the time I hoped it would lead to the extinction of Labour so we could go back to Conservative vs Liberals as God ordained. Labour vs Liberal doesn’t seem quite right.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Serious question: have People Polling ever produced another poll which was, it turns out, a massive outlier?

    Because if they have a history of this then that changes things. Yes I know it is Matt Goodwin etc etc but they are members of the BPC and I need a bit more evidence before dismissing this. But maybe such evidence exists?
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    Goodwin's own explanation:

    1) Reform have released their manifesto
    2) Farage is having a good campaign
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    edited June 19
    This seems amazingly naive from private schools. Point of supply of a service is the crucial factor in determining VAT. They're not going to be able to recover it from the parents so they'll have to find it from future pupils in addition to the VAT on those school fees. My guess is the schools doing this heavily will probably fold.

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/article/2024/jun/19/advance-private-school-fee-payments-may-create-vat-disputes-experts-warn
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    Gary Neville doing a PPB for the Labour party, that should knock a couple of % of their vote share.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Happy to offer my bet to @Leon, if Goodwin’s numbers are repeated in any of the next three BPC polls you win. If they are repeated in none of them, I win.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    That this kind of thinking is considered acceptable in some quarters is the consequence of the government demonising migrants for their own political advantage. They richly deserve to be wiped out.

    No it's not. It's the consequence of thousands of people from the third world turning up here every week without us apparently being able to do anything at all about it.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    Apols if I missed this earlier.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cgeekd4nzvkt?post=asset:cbc50354-3c8f-45e9-bc86-6903e9c7f73e#post

    Sunak protection officer arrested over alleged election date bets

    A police officer working as part of the prime minister's close protection team has been suspended and later arrested over alleged bets about the timing of the general election, the BBC can reveal.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    edited June 19
    eek said:

    eek said:

    Going through that spreadsheet (for what it is) I find it very strange that only 33% of Reform voters voted for Brexit in 2016....

    People Polling have either picked up a set of people who are missed by all other polls, discovered a trend before everyone else or have sampled a very strange set of people...

    So a closer look and it seems that the Reform vote is based on Brexit voters switching to Reform from Don't know and won't vote.

    which may well mean that a significant proportion are either none voters who will vote this time round or will again sit things out. But as Nigel didn't stand in Tory seats in the last election it's perfectly possible he's bringing none voters back into the polling booth.
    We need to know what the voter registration numbers look like, ideally by region, and compared to 17 and 19. But Reform lacks door knockers.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Matt Goodwin has adjusted his methodology. His poll now asks:

    Who do you intend to vote for in the GE:
    - the knee-taking crpyto-communist SKS Labour Party?
    - the utterly useless immigration off-the-scales no boats stopped Sunak Tory Party?
    - the wishy-washy fucking useless Davey Lib Dem Party?
    - the charismatic all-our-problems-solved brilliant isn't Farage gorgeous Reform Party?

    His subtstack article says that PeoplePolling hasn't changed it's methodology at all since they put Reform on 16 and the Tories on 19. So they could well be crap, but it's probably not fair to accuse them of releasing fraudulent polls for Farage - that's more or less what Farage is doing with Moreincommon.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 19
    Farage putting the Tories to the sword, care of Matt Goodwin's impartial polling.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    ohnotnow said:

    Apols if I missed this earlier.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/live/cgeekd4nzvkt?post=asset:cbc50354-3c8f-45e9-bc86-6903e9c7f73e#post

    Sunak protection officer arrested over alleged election date bets

    A police officer working as part of the prime minister's close protection team has been suspended and later arrested over alleged bets about the timing of the general election, the BBC can reveal.

    It seems such a dullard thing to do. You can't make life changing money out of this "insider trading" type move, but if caught you likely to lose your job.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    I'm probably going to vote for Reform. Possible I might vote Labour to ensure the wet who is standing for Mid Beds is defeated.

    But probably I will vote Reform to kick them all in the nuts. The pompous prattle here that farage is Mosley/Hitler/Sundry Fascist is making my mind up.

    Centrist liberals disagreeing with non centrist liberal views is one thing. Centrist liberals considering non centrist liberal views as beneath contempt and ideally disbarred is another matter entirely.

    I hope they do well enough to destroy the Conservative Party and take over what remains, turning it into a less economically right wing and more socially right wing party. Along the lines of places like South Korea, and (modern) Japan. Not Nazi Germany.


    Enjoy the wilderness. It gets a bit lonely but Leon will be there with you, for the first few days.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Here is Matt Goodwin breaking the news of his own poll

    https://x.com/GBNEWS/status/1803501676919149004


    He actually pours cold water over it, to an extent - he feels it is an outlier (that's my impression). But he does think it shows real movement, away from Tories and towards Reform
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,785
    maaarsh said:

    biggles said:

    Nunu5 said:

    Imagine ......

    Reform GAIN Sunderland Central

    I do wonder what a black swan involving a lot of refugees arriving on the south coast in increasingly nice weather could do.
    Odds on cranks saying Putin is funding crossings to destabilise the UK at some point in the next fortnight?
    I think you'll find that the 5G masts are literal migrant-magnets. Can't help themselves be drawn to their mysterious 'magnet waves'. They only get on the boats due to the lack of British Airways pilots.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,432

    Several of us have speculated that Tory/Reform polling might reach a tipping point where voting Tory is seen as a waste of time and Reform as the tactical vote to stop Labour. Is it really a surprise that it might happen? And Reform have just had a lot of coverage of their manifesto, which will have been attractive to the credulous and disgruntled. Is it really a surprise that someone promising lots of free giveaways will win support?

    It might prove to be a bubble, but I think it's completely unwarranted for people to suggest that this poll result is fabricated, without a scintilla of evidence.

    The Tories are almost completely unwilling to criticise Farage. Many of them wish they had had the foresight or courage to have defected to him earlier, when they had the chance. Is it a surprise that Reform should do well in the polls when they receive a free pass from much of one of the parties that should be opposing them?

    You want a scintilla of evidence? I found three things, so will use my picture of the day to highlight all 3 of them.

    image
    Their methodology hasn't changed, so basically you're accusing the company of falsifying the data.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,515

    Gary Neville doing a PPB for the Labour party, that should knock a couple of % of their vote share.

    They can spare a few percent in Liverpool.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439
    Cookie said:

    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    That this kind of thinking is considered acceptable in some quarters is the consequence of the government demonising migrants for their own political advantage. They richly deserve to be wiped out.

    No it's not. It's the consequence of thousands of people from the third world turning up here every week without us apparently being able to do anything at all about it.
    They don't get it @Cookie
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    ping said:

    I'd go:

    Reform to poll >=24% in any other legitimate poll during the remainder of the campaign;

    Yes 4/1
    No 1/4

    Anyone fancy arguing the toss?

    Suspect you’ll get no takers. Just lots of trollcasting from William and Leon without any cash to back it up.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    In every election there’s at least one outlier.

    This will help the LabCon* vote

    * copyrighted
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,647
    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
    Drivel.

    Your post called for leaders to do "indecent things ... for the greater good".
    The Greater Good....

    https://youtu.be/yUpbOliTHJY?feature=shared
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,439

    Gary Neville doing a PPB for the Labour party, that should knock a couple of % of their vote share.

    I'm really hoping for Eddie Izzard.
  • Heathener said:

    I'm probably going to vote for Reform. Possible I might vote Labour to ensure the wet who is standing for Mid Beds is defeated.

    But probably I will vote Reform to kick them all in the nuts. The pompous prattle here that farage is Mosley/Hitler/Sundry Fascist is making my mind up.

    Centrist liberals disagreeing with non centrist liberal views is one thing. Centrist liberals considering non centrist liberal views as beneath contempt and ideally disbarred is another matter entirely.

    I hope they do well enough to destroy the Conservative Party and take over what remains, turning it into a less economically right wing and more socially right wing party. Along the lines of places like South Korea, and (modern) Japan. Not Nazi Germany.


    Enjoy the wilderness. It gets a bit lonely but Leon will be there with you, for the first few days.
    If Goodwin is right I might reconsider. If they got 100 mps it would be a disaster with all sorts of unsuitable people getting elected (much to their own horror as much as anyone elses)!
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,997
    edited June 19
    I can see pollsters struggliung with current situation. We have a Tory party historically unpopular, a demographic of people who were Labour, went Boris, now politically homeless. Yes we had a UKIP surge 10 years ago, but things have changed. Tory wets that were Cameron voters are probably going Lib Dem / Labour, and then its what the don't votes do. They came out of Brexit and Boris, but will they come out for Farage?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258

    .

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Fuck me

    I think all the PBers claiming that this is a fraudulent poll are treading on very thin ice. OGH had a firm rule that you do NOT impugn pollsters without serious evidence, esp if they are members of the BPC (I presume they are?)

    I doubt @rcs1000 and @TSE want a libel action

    Unlike most of the other pollsters People Polling are untested at a general election.

    They have also had to revise some of their previous polls because they cocked up their data tables/spreadsheets.

    The other issue is People Polling's supplementaries have been openly discussed by other pollsters and polling experts as being so one sided as to be utterly irrelevant.
    Then how come they are memnbers of the BPC? Surely they should be expelled?

    Serious question. Because a fraudulent poll if exploded at the right time could actually change the direction of the elevtion, eg a poll which showed Reform easily and dramatically overtaking the Tories

    Which this does

    IF this is shown to be fraudulent then the coppers need to feel collars, this is serious shit
    Well, once they've placed a couple of bets..

    Chris said:

    TimS said:

    I've had a couple of private messages in the last 24 hours from right-wing friends, driven by the close to 1,000 crossings yesterday, half-seriously asking if we now need to "sink a few boats" to stop it.

    Meanwhile legal immigration is several orders of magnitude greater than the rounding error that is small boats. Even as a proportion of asylum claims small boats is a small minority.
    Good evening

    It is simply against Maritime law to arbitrarily sink boats and the outcry would be deafening
    No one told the Greek Coastguard



    Are you trying to justify a rogue coastguard ignoring Mariime law and anyway the coastguard will have the law to deal with

    It is a shocking development that anyone could even think of sinking boats with migrants, and who has to deal with the consequences of rescuing those in peril but the crews of the RNLI and border force boats risking their own lives
    Shocking to those of us leading comfortable lives in agreeable houses.

    Not so much to those who havent seen a decent pay rise in years due to immigrant competition for low/unskilled Labour, whos rent is going up for a poor quality s***hole due to competition from migrants chasing the same housing stock, and pull their rotten teeth out with pliers as they cannot get a dentist. Then see on the news that illegal enterers are collected and put up in hotels with free food.

    And there are rather a lot of the latter.

    As I have said, unless decent leaders on occasion do indecent things on occasion for the greater good (like Churchill sinking the French fleet in Mers-El-Kebir killing thousands of French Sailors), they are replaced by indecent leaders who will do very indecent things.

    The decent leader doing indecent thing in this occasion would be deporting all males of military age entering the country Illegally on such boats to Kigali in short order without appeal.

    The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres.
    I never thought I would read on here such a shocking and unacceptable statement

    It truely saddens me and maybe if you had witnessed a woman or a child drown in such circumstances as the rescuers have then you would discover your humanity
    How is it shocking and unacceptable to say "The indecent leader doing a very indecent thing would use the Navy to sink a boat pour les encouragement les autres. "?

    Think you need to read what I wrote more carefully. I am warning that if good people do nothing then bad people get control and do very unpleasant things.

    I like you am one of the people who live in agreeable houses in some comfort who would find such things shocking.
    Drivel.

    Your post called for leaders to do "indecent things ... for the greater good".
    That was to deport illegal enterers of military age to Kigali. Not to sink their boats.
    That would be a waste.

    Captain - “March them in”

    {group of refugees enter”}

    Captain - “Congratulations on joining His Majesties Royal Navy. Since you have refused to give your names, we have created ones for you. You are Sebastian Codpiece. You were steering the boat? You are then rated Able Seamen. AB Staines. Right, Master at Arms, march them out.”
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    ...

    GIN1138 said:

    GIN1138 said:


    Matt Goodwin
    @GoodwinMJ
    ·
    44m
    💥NEW💥BOMBSHELL poll

    Labour 35%
    Reform 24%
    Conservatives 15%
    Liberal Democrats 12%
    Greens 8%
    SNP 3%

    PeoplePolling/GBN Jun 18th

    SKS fans had better explain and it'd better be good...
    Matt Goodwin Fans Please Explain
    Does Matt Goodwin have any fans?
    @AndyJS on here - inexplicably
    O' Lucky Man too.

    Surely there has to be a ceiling for supporting Farage. I would have suggested 20% but on this polling maybe it's 25%. Surely no more than 30%.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,943
    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    kyf_100 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Badenoch does seem to enjoy support from a few of the higher minded types on the right like Simon Heffer and Melanie Phillips. I imagine Leon would like Giles Coren's verdict on Braverman/Patel as a bit mediocre.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a05xU5Am8s

    I spoke to a (Green) friend on Monday and we ended up discussing politics. He was really looking forward to seeing the Tories botted out and was totally unconcerned by right wing populism and saw no reason not to be contemptuous of them because:

    a) The clear majority of people support progressive parties
    b) Tory/Right wing voters are old and dying
    c) You can't control migration anyway so it's all a waste of time

    I tried to dissuade him from this optimistic view and urged more scepticism but he wasn't having it.

    Living in a bubble would be a good description for this person. Younger working-class people outside big cities are probably more concerned about immigration than older people living in urban areas, for example.
    Actually, I would say the group that is more negatively impacted by immigration is 40-55 year old non-homeowner, who works in a non-skilled role.

    This group didn't go to University, has seen a lot of competition - leading to lower wages - from immigration, didn't benefit from the house price surge, and has now been sucker punched by the inflation that has followed Covid and the Ukraine invasion. They have few, if any, savings and work in a town or small city that has largely been left behind by globalisation. They are (relatively) socially conservative.

    And they feel - not without reason - that they've been fucked by globalisation and by the fact that the Conservatives/LibDems/Labour all offer some shade of the same post-1979 consensus.

    This is a sizeable bunch of voters, and Boris captured them in 2019, by promising to Get Brexit done and to Level Up their towns.

    What they feel has happened instead is that Brexit hasn't reduced immigration of low skilled workers and Levelling Up was cancelled.

    Hence: Reform.
    A group that is also completely unrepresented on PB.

    Leon is the only poster of note who's said they may vote for Reform. And of course, for him, immigration is the #1 issue.

    I think it is for a lot of other voters, and maybe other posters, too, but there is a cordon sanitaire around admitting you're voting for them, especially among the status seeking middle classes, which are over-represented on PB. The only person I know voting for them IRL is a red trouser wearing posho who just openly came out and said the Tories have f***ed the country and Reform are our last hope. "And when do you move from your mews house in SW1 into a caravan in Jaywick?" was my reply - which probably says more about me than it does about him.

    I do wonder if there is a "shy reform" vote in effect, though. A lot of people secretly agreeing with Farage but being too polite to say it out loud.
    I think socially liberal and fiscally conservative is overrepresented on here.

    But I think that is at least partly because it's also overrepresented among educated people who work knowledge based jobs and bet on politics! And that is the demographics of PB.

    Personally, I think the polls have largely got Reform right. I think they'll get 14-15%, and they'll be 7-10 percent behind the Conservative Party. They will probably win two seats (Ashfield and Clacton), but it's also entirely possible that you see tactical voting by LibDems and Labour supporters for the Conservative candidates (particularly in Clacton) which could upset that.

    While I broadly agree with you, from a sheer psychological perspective I wonder if there's a small but significant number (of the general population, rather than PBers) who are deluding themselves along the lines of 'I will continue to vote Conservative, I can't vote for that nasty man Farage' and that is also how they are responding to pollsters. Because they themselves genuinely believe it. And they will kid themselves that they are Con voters right up until July 4th.

    But on polling day, they may actually get into the voting booth and go 'go on then, the Tories have lost anyway and Farage is the only one talking sense on immigration' and give Reform a cheeky X. Feeling a bit naughty for having done so. Like popping into Asda for your essentials and hoping you don't get caught by one of your Waitrose-shopping friends.

    No scientific basis for this - just a weird gut feeling I have.
    That's entirely possible. It's not the most likely scenario, but it's definitely possible

    And that's why I was recommending Reform as the Most Seats Without Labour bet on Betfair, because the 12s on offer (at the time) were very generous for that.
    FWIW, Reform most seats without Labour is still available at 14/1 on BF Exchange.

    I've had a little nibble. I can't see it happening, but those odds will come in if this latest poll isn't an outlier.
This discussion has been closed.