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Into the Great Wide Yonder – politicalbetting.com

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  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    The poor transport is becoming a big story at the Euros:

    https://x.com/JamesOlley/status/1802488344703603107
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Harry Cole is utterly obsessed with Biden apparently being doddery.

    Ok son, don't take the absolute piss. Biden still being able to go to the loo independently might still be somewhat debatable - Biden being 'doddery' stopped being an 'apparently' about 4 years ago.
    Interesting you mentioned incontinence. The Lincoln Project recently released a video called "Trump Diapers". The allusion was that Trump needed such assistance in that department.
    That's fairly loathsome, and so are accounts that take a ghoulish delight in Biden's misfortunes. However, let's be honest, he did not stride over to the parachutist to engage him in witty repartee, he took a doddery wander over toward him and needed to be rescued. It was doddery. It perhaps was nicely and quaintly doddery, rather than burly men armed with horse tranquliser doddery, but ain't nobody trying to say it wasn't doddery (I hope).
    Aren't you the plane crash conspiracy nut?
    That's very strange comment. Are you trying to suggest somehow that see a video of an elderly man being doddery and saying he's being doddery in it is a conspiracy theory?
    I think he's old and old people are doddery. Does that make him unsuitable for office? Based on his actions as President, no.

    You pretend normal things are signs of it. They aren't.

    Now Trump actually has dementia. But nothing from that, so I said are you the plane conspiracy nut because you seem to enjoy conspiracy theories.
    I always hark back to the two men who led the Western Allies in WW2. Roosevelt was terribly ill throughout much of his last term in office and actually died in office before the war ended. Churchill was also in terrible health, a functioning alcoholic and supposedly had a heart attack the night after his speech to Congress in 1941.
    I would much rather Biden wasn't leading the Democrats but the reality is that he's the only candidate to ever actually beat Trump. Does anyone think a challenger would do better, really?
    Actually yes. Biden should be miles ahead against rump but the fears over his health and faculties do cut through. I am not sure I agree with them but the idea they are not seriously hampering the Democrats is just not sustainable.

    There are plenty of younger candidates who would have a reasonable chance against the convicted felon and I think they need to consider them. Though right now may be a few months too late.

    If Trump does win it will be in large part due to the fact the Democrats didn't take action sooner and replace Biden.
    Who are these people?
    Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg. To name three.
    Not sure about Shapiro(!) but Beshear (seemingly not interested right now) Newsom and Ossoff would be on the list too.

    The truth is, Trump is such a weak candidate now that it's hard to imagine him winning at all, against anyone, if he were coming in new. It's only because he's been President before that he's in contention.

    Thanks Hilary Clinton for your sense of entitlement and utter ineptitude.

    Thanks Barack Obama for surrounding yourself with people who were elderly rather than bringing through younger talent.

    But most of all, thanks to 80% of Republicans for being fucking lunatics.
    It's the 20% who aren't that will finish Trump.

    And about 80% of independents.
    These people are not sitting on the sidelines or being ignored. They are reflected in the current polling which has Trump the comfortable winner. The 34 convictions are already priced in. They did not move the polls to any material extent. I am struggling to see what can change things. Possibly the debates but Trump is already edging away from taking part.

    The US has a terrible choice (again) between 2 senile, vain old men. One is positively malevolent and lies constantly. To us it looks obvious but quite clearly Americans are not seeing it that way.
    The US economy is going like a train. Food price rises are dramatically slowing. Jobs and stock markets are at record highs. What will destroy Trump is his assertion that America is going through the worst of times. It really isn't. His entire campaign is about talking down America. From the man that would have you believe he wants to make it great again.
    That's all rational, but in a rational America Trump would have been destroyed by the events of January 2021.

    He wasn't, which makes me fear that the dynamics are awfully cult-like and that reason isn't going to shift the dial from where it is. Beyond a certain point, the absurdity of the conman's claims enhance belief, because victims are reluctant to admit how stupid or greedy or dishonest they were earlier on.

    Coughboriscough. Not as malevolent, but using the same psychologist game.
    And of course Farage.
    "We're calling it a contract, because everyone knows that manifestos are lies.."
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    edited June 17
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Harry Cole is utterly obsessed with Biden apparently being doddery.

    Ok son, don't take the absolute piss. Biden still being able to go to the loo independently might still be somewhat debatable - Biden being 'doddery' stopped being an 'apparently' about 4 years ago.
    Interesting you mentioned incontinence. The Lincoln Project recently released a video called "Trump Diapers". The allusion was that Trump needed such assistance in that department.
    That's fairly loathsome, and so are accounts that take a ghoulish delight in Biden's misfortunes. However, let's be honest, he did not stride over to the parachutist to engage him in witty repartee, he took a doddery wander over toward him and needed to be rescued. It was doddery. It perhaps was nicely and quaintly doddery, rather than burly men armed with horse tranquliser doddery, but ain't nobody trying to say it wasn't doddery (I hope).
    Aren't you the plane crash conspiracy nut?
    That's very strange comment. Are you trying to suggest somehow that see a video of an elderly man being doddery and saying he's being doddery in it is a conspiracy theory?
    I think he's old and old people are doddery. Does that make him unsuitable for office? Based on his actions as President, no.

    You pretend normal things are signs of it. They aren't.

    Now Trump actually has dementia. But nothing from that, so I said are you the plane conspiracy nut because you seem to enjoy conspiracy theories.
    I always hark back to the two men who led the Western Allies in WW2. Roosevelt was terribly ill throughout much of his last term in office and actually died in office before the war ended. Churchill was also in terrible health, a functioning alcoholic and supposedly had a heart attack the night after his speech to Congress in 1941.
    I would much rather Biden wasn't leading the Democrats but the reality is that he's the only candidate to ever actually beat Trump. Does anyone think a challenger would do better, really?
    Actually yes. Biden should be miles ahead against rump but the fears over his health and faculties do cut through. I am not sure I agree with them but the idea they are not seriously hampering the Democrats is just not sustainable.

    There are plenty of younger candidates who would have a reasonable chance against the convicted felon and I think they need to consider them. Though right now may be a few months too late.

    If Trump does win it will be in large part due to the fact the Democrats didn't take action sooner and replace Biden.
    Who are these people?
    Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg. To name three.
    Not sure about Shapiro(!) but Beshear (seemingly not interested right now) Newsom and Ossoff would be on the list too.

    The truth is, Trump is such a weak candidate now that it's hard to imagine him winning at all, against anyone, if he were coming in new. It's only because he's been President before that he's in contention.

    Thanks Hilary Clinton for your sense of entitlement and utter ineptitude.

    Thanks Barack Obama for surrounding yourself with people who were elderly rather than bringing through younger talent.

    But most of all, thanks to 80% of Republicans for being fucking lunatics.
    It's the 20% who aren't that will finish Trump.

    And about 80% of independents.
    These people are not sitting on the sidelines or being ignored. They are reflected in the current polling which has Trump the comfortable winner. The 34 convictions are already priced in. They did not move the polls to any material extent. I am struggling to see what can change things. Possibly the debates but Trump is already edging away from taking part.

    The US has a terrible choice (again) between 2 senile, vain old men. One is positively malevolent and lies constantly. To us it looks obvious but quite clearly Americans are not seeing it that way.
    What polling hs "Trump the comfortable winner"? The most recent ones I've seen all have the swing states in the margin of error. Some, such as Nevada, have as a consequence moved markedly to Biden.

    Plus, abortion and women's control of their bodies is going to be a huge issue on polling day. Not in a good way for the Republicans.

    And most Americans don't pay attention to politics until the sharp end of the campaign. Ignore all polls before the first Monday in September.
  • TweedledeeTweedledee Posts: 1,405
    Sean_F said:

    Sean_F said:

    Stephen Fry likens removing Parthenon marbles to Nazi Germany taking the Arc de Triomphe

    https://amp.theguardian.com/artanddesign/article/2024/jun/17/stephen-fry-parthenon-marbles-british-museum-returned-greece

    Stephen Fry is bang on the money.

    The argument among Philhellenes has always been that the Greeks invented democracy (except for women, slaves, metics, ie 90% of the population), and that Ottoman rule was totally illegitimate. Hence, the Ottomans had no right to give away the marbles that the
    locals didn’t care about.
    A preposterous argument, or rather a whole bundle of them. 1. Are you giving them no credit at all for "inventing democracy" because they didn't emerge as fully fledged Guardian readers? Do you also sneer at the loser Newton because his equations break down as you approach c? 2. What evidence do you have as to how much the locals cared about the marbles? Point me to a source: primary or secondary, I don't mind. I'll assess it on its merits. Surely you wouldn't be making this claim purely at random and without evidence? 3. Even if you can make the claim good, so what? I imagine 1943 Parisians didn't care much about the arc de triomphe compared to staying alive. Would that justify the nicking of the arc de triomphe?

    Or do you just think to that a posh Scotch earl with a classical education from Harrow has more right to Greece's heritage than a bunch of Greeks?
    Do you think that Ottoman = Nazis, Greeks = French is a legitimate comparison?
    Unwanted invaders, indigenous population, iconic national treasure. So, yes, it's a legitimate comparison and I think that's all Fry is saying, and taking the most recent and nearest comparison. No George Galloway type point involved (though the Turks were no slouches at enslavement and genocide, as it happens).

  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    edited June 17

    kle4 said:

    Reform UK’s parliamentary candidate in Kemi Badenoch’s constituency has resigned after it emerged he previously urged people to vote for the BNP.

    Grant StClair-Armstrong, the party’s candidate in North West Essex, told BBC News he had “never supported the BNP” and had been forced to stand down by the party.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cw880334dgyo

    Never really understand these stories. He doesn't deny the message he posted saying Vote BNP and yet still denies he supported them, which is just absurd. He expresses some regret over his comments, but that's quite different to expecting people to reject the evidence before their eyes.

    Meanwhile, the party claims he resigned but he maintains he was forced to stand down, but since it's too late to remove him from the ballot the point is largely immaterial, so why did he even bother to 'stand down'? The party could certainly disavow him, but since he's rejected the official explanation from them he's essentially requiring that anyway.
    Upshot is it gives them an excuse not to stand against Badenoch.

    I suspect their candidates in the constituencies of Mogg, Bravaman etc are not doing much. It is in Reforms interest for such people to survive the massacre and as few wets as possible to escape the tumbrils.
    There’s also a bit of ‘I’m sorry I got caught’ about the apology too - the whole, ‘it’s a shame it’s necessary to go back through what I’ve written*’ thing. I genuinely don’t know how much this sort of thing cuts through but it’s hardly surprising to know that loads of Reform candidates are fash or fash adjace.

    Its a tightrope for them; on the one hand a big national polling number gives Nige something he can point to in terms of being hard done by (4 million votes and just a single seat or whatever), but they would undoubtedly do better in terms of actual seats by focusing on a couple of dozen proper candidates to win a decent handful of seats. Psychologically the former clearly suits Grifter Nigel more.


    *on which:
    A) Oh, welcome to the Mens’ Room, snowflake!**
    B ) Actions have consequences, even actions like writing fascist stuff on the internet.
    C) If you’re too stupid to audit your internet Nazi trail, you probably shouldn’t be running for office (except as a Nazi).


    **steady on; a Malcolm Tucker paraquote.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    tlg86 said:

    The poor transport is becoming a big story at the Euros:

    https://x.com/JamesOlley/status/1802488344703603107

    This is another example of British exceptionalism: we go on about how cr@p something is, whilst looking at the best in other comparable countries, without realising things can be cr@p in other countries as well.

    And I'm not being exceptional in saying it's a British trait; most countries do it. The grass is always greener and all that.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    Nigelb said:

    Teachers and GPs ‘staggering’ under extra demands caused by poverty in Great Britain
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jun/17/teachers-gps-staggering-extra-demands-poverty-great-britain

    What will happen with the welfare cuts already baked into forward fiscal planning ?
    Still going ahead, or not ?

    GPs? None of them work a full week, and then they retire before they reach 60.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    tlg86 said:

    The poor transport is becoming a big story at the Euros:

    https://x.com/JamesOlley/status/1802488344703603107

    DB in Germany is now a national joke in the way of Southern Railway, or British Rail of old. The days when Germany trains always ran on time are long gone; the Italians do much better nowadays. Or indeed almost any other country
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    edited June 17
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Harry Cole is utterly obsessed with Biden apparently being doddery.

    Ok son, don't take the absolute piss. Biden still being able to go to the loo independently might still be somewhat debatable - Biden being 'doddery' stopped being an 'apparently' about 4 years ago.
    Interesting you mentioned incontinence. The Lincoln Project recently released a video called "Trump Diapers". The allusion was that Trump needed such assistance in that department.
    That's fairly loathsome, and so are accounts that take a ghoulish delight in Biden's misfortunes. However, let's be honest, he did not stride over to the parachutist to engage him in witty repartee, he took a doddery wander over toward him and needed to be rescued. It was doddery. It perhaps was nicely and quaintly doddery, rather than burly men armed with horse tranquliser doddery, but ain't nobody trying to say it wasn't doddery (I hope).
    Aren't you the plane crash conspiracy nut?
    That's very strange comment. Are you trying to suggest somehow that see a video of an elderly man being doddery and saying he's being doddery in it is a conspiracy theory?
    I think he's old and old people are doddery. Does that make him unsuitable for office? Based on his actions as President, no.

    You pretend normal things are signs of it. They aren't.

    Now Trump actually has dementia. But nothing from that, so I said are you the plane conspiracy nut because you seem to enjoy conspiracy theories.
    I always hark back to the two men who led the Western Allies in WW2. Roosevelt was terribly ill throughout much of his last term in office and actually died in office before the war ended. Churchill was also in terrible health, a functioning alcoholic and supposedly had a heart attack the night after his speech to Congress in 1941.
    I would much rather Biden wasn't leading the Democrats but the reality is that he's the only candidate to ever actually beat Trump. Does anyone think a challenger would do better, really?
    Actually yes. Biden should be miles ahead against rump but the fears over his health and faculties do cut through. I am not sure I agree with them but the idea they are not seriously hampering the Democrats is just not sustainable.

    There are plenty of younger candidates who would have a reasonable chance against the convicted felon and I think they need to consider them. Though right now may be a few months too late.

    If Trump does win it will be in large part due to the fact the Democrats didn't take action sooner and replace Biden.
    Who are these people?
    Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg. To name three.
    Not sure about Shapiro(!) but Beshear (seemingly not interested right now) Newsom and Ossoff would be on the list too.

    The truth is, Trump is such a weak candidate now that it's hard to imagine him winning at all, against anyone, if he were coming in new. It's only because he's been President before that he's in contention.

    Thanks Hilary Clinton for your sense of entitlement and utter ineptitude.

    Thanks Barack Obama for surrounding yourself with people who were elderly rather than bringing through younger talent.

    But most of all, thanks to 80% of Republicans for being fucking lunatics.
    It's the 20% who aren't that will finish Trump.

    And about 80% of independents.
    These people are not sitting on the sidelines or being ignored. They are reflected in the current polling which has Trump the comfortable winner. The 34 convictions are already priced in. They did not move the polls to any material extent. I am struggling to see what can change things. Possibly the debates but Trump is already edging away from taking part.

    The US has a terrible choice (again) between 2 senile, vain old men. One is positively malevolent and lies constantly. To us it looks obvious but quite clearly Americans are not seeing it that way.
    The candidate might be a vain old fool but he is our vain old fool, whether he be Trump or Biden, Boris or Corbyn.
  • FeersumEnjineeyaFeersumEnjineeya Posts: 4,489
    edited June 17
    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Harry Cole is utterly obsessed with Biden apparently being doddery.

    Ok son, don't take the absolute piss. Biden still being able to go to the loo independently might still be somewhat debatable - Biden being 'doddery' stopped being an 'apparently' about 4 years ago.
    Interesting you mentioned incontinence. The Lincoln Project recently released a video called "Trump Diapers". The allusion was that Trump needed such assistance in that department.
    That's fairly loathsome, and so are accounts that take a ghoulish delight in Biden's misfortunes. However, let's be honest, he did not stride over to the parachutist to engage him in witty repartee, he took a doddery wander over toward him and needed to be rescued. It was doddery. It perhaps was nicely and quaintly doddery, rather than burly men armed with horse tranquliser doddery, but ain't nobody trying to say it wasn't doddery (I hope).
    Aren't you the plane crash conspiracy nut?
    That's very strange comment. Are you trying to suggest somehow that see a video of an elderly man being doddery and saying he's being doddery in it is a conspiracy theory?
    I think he's old and old people are doddery. Does that make him unsuitable for office? Based on his actions as President, no.

    You pretend normal things are signs of it. They aren't.

    Now Trump actually has dementia. But nothing from that, so I said are you the plane conspiracy nut because you seem to enjoy conspiracy theories.
    I always hark back to the two men who led the Western Allies in WW2. Roosevelt was terribly ill throughout much of his last term in office and actually died in office before the war ended. Churchill was also in terrible health, a functioning alcoholic and supposedly had a heart attack the night after his speech to Congress in 1941.
    I would much rather Biden wasn't leading the Democrats but the reality is that he's the only candidate to ever actually beat Trump. Does anyone think a challenger would do better, really?
    Actually yes. Biden should be miles ahead against rump but the fears over his health and faculties do cut through. I am not sure I agree with them but the idea they are not seriously hampering the Democrats is just not sustainable.

    There are plenty of younger candidates who would have a reasonable chance against the convicted felon and I think they need to consider them. Though right now may be a few months too late.

    If Trump does win it will be in large part due to the fact the Democrats didn't take action sooner and replace Biden.
    Who are these people?
    Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg. To name three.
    Not sure about Shapiro(!) but Beshear (seemingly not interested right now) Newsom and Ossoff would be on the list too.

    The truth is, Trump is such a weak candidate now that it's hard to imagine him winning at all, against anyone, if he were coming in new. It's only because he's been President before that he's in contention.

    Thanks Hilary Clinton for your sense of entitlement and utter ineptitude.

    Thanks Barack Obama for surrounding yourself with people who were elderly rather than bringing through younger talent.

    But most of all, thanks to 80% of Republicans for being fucking lunatics.
    It's the 20% who aren't that will finish Trump.

    And about 80% of independents.
    These people are not sitting on the sidelines or being ignored. They are reflected in the current polling which has Trump the comfortable winner. The 34 convictions are already priced in. They did not move the polls to any material extent. I am struggling to see what can change things. Possibly the debates but Trump is already edging away from taking part.

    The US has a terrible choice (again) between 2 senile, vain old men. One is positively malevolent and lies constantly. To us it looks obvious but quite clearly Americans are not seeing it that way.
    Not the greatest advert for FPTP.

    Is there any country with PR (or similar) that has ended up offering such a poor choice of candidates for election?
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888

    Tories urge Sunak to go for Starmer’s jugular to rescue campaign
    Ministers want PM to go on the offensive on three fronts — Starmer’s support for Corbyn, backing for a second EU referendum and career as a human rights lawyer

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/tories-urge-sunak-to-go-for-starmers-jugular-to-rescue-campaign-wxqcw0mvc (not paywalled, apparently)

    They can try that, it might be all they have left, but I don't expect it to get them anywhere. On Corbyn, ultimately, he's not in the Labour party anymore whereas Johnson partied while the Queen mourned and Truss crashed the economy, while Sunak is too weak to denounce them. Brexit is now historically unpopular, centrist Tories tended to be against Brexit, and Starmer is simply going to say he wants a sensible relationship with the EU but that he's not taking us back in. Finally, on the Human Rights thing, again, arguing against Human rights is just going to alienate moderate centre right voters. And it's not going to bring back Reform voters for this election.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    I don't follow golf, but even I registered the enormous US Open choke.

    Begging for a PB political metaphor headline.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Unpopular said:

    Tories urge Sunak to go for Starmer’s jugular to rescue campaign
    Ministers want PM to go on the offensive on three fronts — Starmer’s support for Corbyn, backing for a second EU referendum and career as a human rights lawyer

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/tories-urge-sunak-to-go-for-starmers-jugular-to-rescue-campaign-wxqcw0mvc (not paywalled, apparently)

    They can try that, it might be all they have left, but I don't expect it to get them anywhere. On Corbyn, ultimately, he's not in the Labour party anymore whereas Johnson partied while the Queen mourned and Truss crashed the economy, while Sunak is too weak to denounce them. Brexit is now historically unpopular, centrist Tories tended to be against Brexit, and Starmer is simply going to say he wants a sensible relationship with the EU but that he's not taking us back in. Finally, on the Human Rights thing, again, arguing against Human rights is just going to alienate moderate centre right voters. And it's not going to bring back Reform voters for this election.
    There does seem to be a touch of “we need to keep doing what we were doing, only more” about this.

    Starmer would be delighted I think if the focus moves on to this from Labour will raise tax and don’t give Labour a huge majority, the two most effective Tory attack lines.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Here comes the final kitchen sink week or so of the tory campaign.

    Tax, landslide, tax, tax, landslide, trust, tax, landslide etc etc etc.





    Neil Henderson
    @hendopolis
    ·
    2m
    EXPRESS: PM: Labour will run riot with your money #TomorrowsPapersToday

    My Surrey friend is going on and on and on and on and then on and on and on about … Labour’s tax

    So, finally, the Conservatives managed to get to a campaign message which is cutting through.

    It’s one of the reasons I expect the polls to narrow between Labour and Conservative and for the final gap to be well under 20% and probably closer to 15% or even less.
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220

    tlg86 said:

    The poor transport is becoming a big story at the Euros:

    https://x.com/JamesOlley/status/1802488344703603107

    This is another example of British exceptionalism: we go on about how cr@p something is, whilst looking at the best in other comparable countries, without realising things can be cr@p in other countries as well.

    And I'm not being exceptional in saying it's a British trait; most countries do it. The grass is always greener and all that.
    Given a lot of people also went to Germany for the 2006 World Cup, it does seem like things have deteriorated quite dramatically.

    I took the train from Stuttgart to Munich and back in April and it was okay, other than the mess that is Stuttgart HB!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    tlg86 said:

    tlg86 said:

    The poor transport is becoming a big story at the Euros:

    https://x.com/JamesOlley/status/1802488344703603107

    This is another example of British exceptionalism: we go on about how cr@p something is, whilst looking at the best in other comparable countries, without realising things can be cr@p in other countries as well.

    And I'm not being exceptional in saying it's a British trait; most countries do it. The grass is always greener and all that.
    Given a lot of people also went to Germany for the 2006 World Cup, it does seem like things have deteriorated quite dramatically.

    I took the train from Stuttgart to Munich and back in April and it was okay, other than the mess that is Stuttgart HB!
    Yes, I think the infamous problems at Berlin’s Brandenburg Airport finally put paid to the notion of German efficiency. It became a global laughing stock, which is quite a turnaround.

    https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/berlin-brandenburg-airport-one-year-on/index.html

  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    NEW THREAD

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    By the way, in the ‘Heathener meets X,Y, and Z’ Series to which you are all now becoming accustomed and which annoys some, and helps others to make money ( ;) ) …

    I know of two people who are bitterly anti-migration to the UK, likely to vote Reform, but who are themselves migrants in other countries. One migrant is a pilot currently living in Germany. The other migrant is a rather well known MAGAloon on this board.

    The irony.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    DavidL said:

    ydoethur said:

    Harry Cole is utterly obsessed with Biden apparently being doddery.

    Ok son, don't take the absolute piss. Biden still being able to go to the loo independently might still be somewhat debatable - Biden being 'doddery' stopped being an 'apparently' about 4 years ago.
    Interesting you mentioned incontinence. The Lincoln Project recently released a video called "Trump Diapers". The allusion was that Trump needed such assistance in that department.
    That's fairly loathsome, and so are accounts that take a ghoulish delight in Biden's misfortunes. However, let's be honest, he did not stride over to the parachutist to engage him in witty repartee, he took a doddery wander over toward him and needed to be rescued. It was doddery. It perhaps was nicely and quaintly doddery, rather than burly men armed with horse tranquliser doddery, but ain't nobody trying to say it wasn't doddery (I hope).
    Aren't you the plane crash conspiracy nut?
    That's very strange comment. Are you trying to suggest somehow that see a video of an elderly man being doddery and saying he's being doddery in it is a conspiracy theory?
    I think he's old and old people are doddery. Does that make him unsuitable for office? Based on his actions as President, no.

    You pretend normal things are signs of it. They aren't.

    Now Trump actually has dementia. But nothing from that, so I said are you the plane conspiracy nut because you seem to enjoy conspiracy theories.
    I always hark back to the two men who led the Western Allies in WW2. Roosevelt was terribly ill throughout much of his last term in office and actually died in office before the war ended. Churchill was also in terrible health, a functioning alcoholic and supposedly had a heart attack the night after his speech to Congress in 1941.
    I would much rather Biden wasn't leading the Democrats but the reality is that he's the only candidate to ever actually beat Trump. Does anyone think a challenger would do better, really?
    Actually yes. Biden should be miles ahead against rump but the fears over his health and faculties do cut through. I am not sure I agree with them but the idea they are not seriously hampering the Democrats is just not sustainable.

    There are plenty of younger candidates who would have a reasonable chance against the convicted felon and I think they need to consider them. Though right now may be a few months too late.

    If Trump does win it will be in large part due to the fact the Democrats didn't take action sooner and replace Biden.
    Who are these people?
    Whitmer, Shapiro, Buttigieg. To name three.
    Not sure about Shapiro(!) but Beshear (seemingly not interested right now) Newsom and Ossoff would be on the list too.

    The truth is, Trump is such a weak candidate now that it's hard to imagine him winning at all, against anyone, if he were coming in new. It's only because he's been President before that he's in contention.

    Thanks Hilary Clinton for your sense of entitlement and utter ineptitude.

    Thanks Barack Obama for surrounding yourself with people who were elderly rather than bringing through younger talent.

    But most of all, thanks to 80% of Republicans for being fucking lunatics.
    It's the 20% who aren't that will finish Trump.

    And about 80% of independents.
    These people are not sitting on the sidelines or being ignored. They are reflected in the current polling which has Trump the comfortable winner. The 34 convictions are already priced in. They did not move the polls to any material extent. I am struggling to see what can change things. Possibly the debates but Trump is already edging away from taking part.

    The US has a terrible choice (again) between 2 senile, vain old men. One is positively malevolent and lies constantly. To us it looks obvious but quite clearly Americans are not seeing it that way.
    Not the greatest advert for FPTP.

    Is there any country with PR (or similar) that has ended up offering such a poor choice of candidates for election?
    Every Irish general election.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    edited June 17
    old thread.....
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