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Survation is great for Lab and the SNP but awful for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    The vast majority of Tory digital advertising money will go out in the final 48 hours of the campaign, as happened in 2019. It seems more likely to feature images of Starmer than Sunak, however keyed up the prime minister may now be.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    The whole Tory campaign is just weird. They keep persisting with President Sunak approach, but it clearly isn't working. Does he think he is way more popular than the party or something?

    They came out going all Reform-y with National Service, then the manifesto was totally the opposite, no red meat for natural Tory voter.

    Nothing makes any sense. And these are the people who called in the GE in the first place.
    The australian election guru guy will never work again I guess after this.

    Life can be very unfair.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    edited June 15

    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.

    Don't you mean he's a hopeless tosser?

    Edit - WTF autocorrect?
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494

    TimS said:

    Tories will be within 2% either way of 30% come the election.

    If that plays out, there are going to be some very funny threads to re-read....
    The thing is, if the Tories and Labour were going to squeeze the smaller parties we'd be able to see it in the trends by now. at each of the last three elections the squeeze started as soon as the election was called. this time the trends have all been the other way, Labour and Tory trending down LibDems, Reform and, to a lesser extent, Greens going up
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812
    edited June 15

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    Do report back, please. Edit: after the election, if need be.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    I became a fan of baseball by accident.

    In 2010 FSG bought Liverpool FC and they also own the Boston Red Sox team, so I dug deep to find out what kind of owners they would be based on their tenure of the Red Sox.
  • Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    The whole Tory campaign is just weird. They keep persisting with President Sunak approach, but it clearly isn't working. Does he think he is way more popular than the party or something?

    They came out going all Reform-y with National Service, then the manifesto was totally the opposite, no red meat for natural Tory voter.

    Nothing makes any sense. And these are the people who called in the GE in the first place.
    The presidentialism is a big problem. Illustrated by Sunak going to the King for a dissolution without seeing it necessary to consult the cabinet first.

    The only time we have had proper cabinet government in my adult lifetime was during the coalition, and it shows.

  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    ydoethur said:

    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.

    Don't you mean he's a hopeless tosser?

    Edit - WTF autocorrect?
    I'm not really talking to you at the moment.

    You compared me to Simon Case this morning.

    I mean WTAF?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    ydoethur said:

    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.

    Don't you mean he's a hopeless tosser?

    Edit - WTF autocorrect?
    I'm not really talking to you at the moment.

    You compared me to Simon Case this morning.

    I mean WTAF?
    I did no such thing.

    I pointed out that he got the same grades as you at A-level, in the same year, and therefore a wise man would not boast about how hard they were.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,547
    EPG said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Seeing the loyalty to Brand Tory on the doorsteps, the only way Reform poll 15% is for Labour to shed some significant votes to them. I don't see there being any chance Reform overtake the Conservatives in actual votes. The Conservatives can then tell Farage to spin on it - and begin to build their vote share on the back of Labour being a disaster.
    Yes, and polls are consistent with this narrative: Conservative vote down by less than 50%. But in fairness, they also consistently have Conservatives down by around 40%. Some of your reportage sounds like the vote is very sticky and loyal - maybe down by 10%, ending up on 39% nationally?
    My initial assessment of the final result when the election was called was Labour 38% Conservative 32%.

    After D-Day, that 32% looks out of reach. But 30%? Maybe....

  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can be Prime Minister as a Lord, but you can't be leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    edited June 15

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    Interesting. I just suspect there may be a latent Labour vote in the larger towns which could appear. Buckie used to elect Labour cllrs not so long ago. I don't know anything about Logan except someone telling me he was pro-Sinn Fein. Not sure if thst is right.
    The "expenses story" btw went nowhere - Ross was exonerated by the parliamentary authorities despite Swinney's harrumphing.
    It didn't go nowhere. His Own People leaked it to the press believing the claims were "dodgy". That he is the candidate is beyond dodgy, a lot of voters think it fits a narrative that the entire party is "dodgy".

    I will not be surprised if we do not get more blue on blue before the campaign ends. The sheer rage of local Tories as to what happened is something to behold.

    EDIT - no Labour presence in Cullen or Buckie. No candidates stood in 2022
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    So the scrapping NI for white van guy worked well I see.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    BTW - I expect you have seen the news about the suggested reopening of the railway to the Broch and Peterheid?

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/people/new-rail-links-would-bring-huge-benefits-to-buchan-4665560
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Cricket...its on like Fat Pat thong. 11 overs a side.

    Meanwhile Surrey vs Sussex on Youtube is proving moderately entertaining, if only for the contribution of Jamie Smith. I hadn't heard of him previously and he looks tremendous.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,590

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    That's assuming that the voter coalition they need to build is the same as the old one.
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    Heathener said:

    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.

    It depends on the algorithm. It shows you the content it thinks you want to see. Same as Instagram and Facebook.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    Going gangbusters

    Etc.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    More to the point, she doesn't really unite the right. Too woke.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How many of that 25% would still vote for Starmer or the LDs even with Cameron Tory leader though? If Cameron also leads a Tory members poll then that would be more significant
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can be Prime Minister as a Lord, but you can't be leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
    Bit early to assume that - with Mr Sunak dumped, who knows if it isn't the PM rather than the mere administrative job of leading a political party that the public had in mind?

    But fair enough. Although they can change the rules very quickly, presumably? I've just finished Patrick Bishop's biography of A. Neave MP which, in part, covered his role in the defenestration of E. Heath and his replacemebnt by one M. Thatcher, a key element of which was a complere replacement of the voting rules.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    Thank you. Not sure why it should be being used in the UK then.
    Could just have said hit it out of the ground. Cricket > baseball.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Yeah, and look how that worked out.

    He is no good at swinging for fences. Boring competence is what he could - should - have offered.

    Unfortunately after all the epic cock-ups he's made nobody will believe him if he offers it and it probably wouldn't be enough anyway.
    Rishi got 43% in the 2022 Tory leadership vote with the members, that was closer than expected mid campaign when polls had a Truss landslide with the membership.

    The final debate one on one with Starmer with no Farage a week before polling day is Rishi's chance to make his final case to undecideds
    Sunak lost to Truss. A woman so lazy, incompetent and arrogant she was comprehensively outmanoeuvred by that fat drunken old weirdo Sergey Lavrov. Losing to her at all, even with that electorate was a profound humiliation.
    Sunak lost to Truss by less than Clarke lost to IDS, Hunt lost to Boris and Davis lost to Cameron
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,688
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can be Prime Minister as a Lord, but you can't be leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
    Bit early to assume that - with Mr Sunak dumped, who knows if it isn't the PM rather than the mere administrative job of leading a political party that the public had in mind?

    But fair enough. Although they can change the rules very quickly, presumably? I've just finished Patrick Bishop's biography of A. Neave MP which, in part, covered his role in the defenestration of E. Heath and his replacemebnt by one M. Thatcher, a key element of which was a complere replacement of the voting rules.
    Not sure the "public's preferred candidate" remotely matches the tory membership's idea of the preferred candidate to be honest.
  • It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    More easily than someone who isn't a party member (or MP yet).
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    Thank you. Not sure why it should be being used in the UK then.
    Could just have said hit it out of the ground. Cricket > baseball.
    Ah, now I understand. Thanks.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.

    Don't you mean he's a hopeless tosser?

    Edit - WTF autocorrect?
    I'm not really talking to you at the moment.

    You compared me to Simon Case this morning.

    I mean WTAF?
    I did no such thing.

    I pointed out that he got the same grades as you at A-level, in the same year, and therefore a wise man would not boast about how hard they were.
    I am consulting my lawyers.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 15
    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    More to the point, she doesn't really unite the right. Too woke.
    Ironically probably the best candidate to unite the right would be Rees Mogg, a Tory but close friends with Farage and hugely popular with Leavers.

    He may not turn on swing voters anymore than Corbyn did but he could unite the right behind him in the same way Corbyn united the left behind him
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Heathener said:

    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.

    It depends on the algorithm. It shows you the content it thinks you want to see. Same as Instagram and Facebook.
    No I was using objective surveys analysing social media
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    In baseball, several ways in which runs may be achieved and scored; one is for the batter to hit the ball to the outer reaches of the outfield, so the ball a) leaves the ball park; or b) takes so long to field and throw back that the batter crosses home plate after circuiting (counter-clockwise) all three bases.

    IF the batter achieves this with three teammates already on base (one each) that's a grand slam.

    (Which some traveling Brits may also have encountered as a breakfast special at Denny's.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Heathener said:

    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.

    It’s simply not true

    UK Labour, TikTok: 200k followers

    https://www.tiktok.com/@uklabour

    Starmer doesn’t even have an official TikTok account

    Farage, TikTok: 720k followers. More than three times as many

    https://www.tiktok.com/@nigel_farage

    Are you ever right about ANYTHING???
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,547
    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    How much of a personal vote does Mordaunt have? As a possible future leader, does that buy her some extra support?
  • GallowgateGallowgate Posts: 19,454
    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    More to the point, she doesn't really unite the right. Too woke.
    Ironically probably the best candidate to unite the right would be Rees Mogg, a Tory but close friends with Farage and hugely popular with Leavers.

    He may not turn on swing voters anymore than Corbyn did but he could unite the right behind him in the same way Corbyn united the left behind him
    The red wall is not going to vote for Rees Mogg.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,352
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can be Prime Minister as a Lord, but you can't be leader of the Conservative and Unionist Party.
    Bit early to assume that - with Mr Sunak dumped, who knows if it isn't the PM rather than the mere administrative job of leading a political party that the public had in mind?

    But fair enough. Although they can change the rules very quickly, presumably? I've just finished Patrick Bishop's biography of A. Neave MP which, in part, covered his role in the defenestration of E. Heath and his replacemebnt by one M. Thatcher, a key element of which was a complere replacement of the voting rules.
    Michael Howard tried to change the rules back when he was the leader and had to give it up. It was a lot easier to do before Hague wrote the leadership election rules into the Party constitution.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Target of 100?

    Bit like the Tories really.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 15
    Bit of a strange decision from England in the cricket. 11 overs a side and you drop Will Jacks for another bowler. Don't you want a line-up packed with those that will swing for the fences ;-)
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    The vast majority of Tory digital advertising money will go out in the final 48 hours of the campaign, as happened in 2019. It seems more likely to feature images of Starmer than Sunak, however keyed up the prime minister may now be.

    I want them to send out an image of Putin standing in front of, say, the destruction of Mariupol.

    With little Farage in his top pocket.

    The real cost of Farage.
    It's possible that the Tories have more to gain (or less to lose) at this stage of proceedings by savagely attacking Farage rather than just going after Starmer. There's more ammunition to use, for a start, and it may be easier to win back the Reform vote than the Labour vote.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 15

    HYUFD said:

    Cookie said:

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    More to the point, she doesn't really unite the right. Too woke.
    Ironically probably the best candidate to unite the right would be Rees Mogg, a Tory but close friends with Farage and hugely popular with Leavers.

    He may not turn on swing voters anymore than Corbyn did but he could unite the right behind him in the same way Corbyn united the left behind him
    The red wall is not going to vote for Rees Mogg.
    Is Somerset going to vote for Rees Mogg? The current Labour mayor of the West of England is standing against him.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    That Reform seat list doesn't pass the smell test. The unexpectedly good SNP total might, however. The woad and tartan hardcore of the pro-independence vote is quite large, and they don't really have anywhere else to go. Nobody thinks the Scottish Greens or Alba are going to win any seats.

    I maintain my assumption that the Tory membership will probably install Suella as the next leader, assuming that she is returned.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    ydoethur said:

    ydoethur said:

    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.

    Don't you mean he's a hopeless tosser?

    Edit - WTF autocorrect?
    I'm not really talking to you at the moment.

    You compared me to Simon Case this morning.

    I mean WTAF?
    I did no such thing.

    I pointed out that he got the same grades as you at A-level, in the same year, and therefore a wise man would not boast about how hard they were.
    I am consulting my lawyers.
    I hope for your sake they're better than the lawyers who were defending a recent small claim I brought.

    Filled in the wrong form, forgot the witness statement, failed to meet the filing deadline. Lost the case by default. Now appealing by filing the paperwork three months after deadline and three weeks after judgement

    (By the way, it was your advice to sue there, so thank you.)
  • bobbobbobbob Posts: 100
    Hopefully farage takes over the tories and delivers a PROPER brexit
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    England shitting the bed here.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    Also, MM, everyone knows the Tories have an erm rather different attitude to sickness and disability amongst the general populace. How odd that they have such a different approach when it's convenient to the local party leader.

    Plus not letting the poor chap have a stab at recovering first is inherently discriminatory. If I were him, I'd be considering talking to the advocates of the West End of Edinburgh. Except that mr Ross will probably have lost the seat by then anyway, and retreated back to the MSP list seat which he is apparently not resigning after all.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350

    England shitting the bed here.

    Let me guess. They puts Jacks on?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963

    England shitting the bed here.

    They know its not a test match right....
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,615
    edited June 15
    ydoethur said:

    England shitting the bed here.

    Let me guess. They puts Jacks on?
    Only scored 1 from the first over.

    Now Buttler out 2/1 after 1.2 overs in an 11 over match

    They've dropped Jacks for this match.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    Butler playing himself in.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,043

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    TBF that's likely to be true of most of the contenders.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    TimS said:

    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.

    Do you fancy a bet on this?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    Pulpstar said:

    Butler playing himself in.

    To a franchise-only career?
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,508

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    How much of a personal vote does Mordaunt have? As a possible future leader, does that buy her some extra support?
    It will be interesting to see how both Mordaunt and Mercer perform in terms of personal vote. Both will find it tough to retain their seats but it might be that personal vote makes all the difference. I can't see personal vote helping Rees Mogg unless it is because he has forced all his indentured tenants to vote for him. ;)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772

    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    In baseball, several ways in which runs may be achieved and scored; one is for the batter to hit the ball to the outer reaches of the outfield, so the ball a) leaves the ball park; or b) takes so long to field and throw back that the batter crosses home plate after circuiting (counter-clockwise) all three bases.

    IF the batter achieves this with three teammates already on base (one each) that's a grand slam.

    (Which some traveling Brits may also have encountered as a breakfast special at Denny's.)
    FWIW, the commentators on the Sussex-Surrey match are talking about swinging for the fences. It wasn't a phrase I'd heard before today that I'd noticed - suddenly it's everywhere.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812
    edited June 15

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    But optics *are* part of politics. Mr Ross should have followed the other half of his seat - or just stopped being a pluralist tout court and stuck with his MSP seat.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,411
    Leon said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    It’s embarrassing

    They should have said: he’s gone Bazball

    At least use a British reference rather than an Americanism no one understands. They are so CRINGE
    Ghastly spotty little herberts who wish they were American - much like their chump of a leader.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    How much of a personal vote does Mordaunt have? As a possible future leader, does that buy her some extra support?
    It will be interesting to see how both Mordaunt and Mercer perform in terms of personal vote. Both will find it tough to retain their seats but it might be that personal vote makes all the difference. I can't see personal vote helping Rees Mogg unless it is because he has forced all his indentured tenants to vote for him. ;)
    lol
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,169
    Pulpstar said:

    Butler playing himself in.

    Or not. Lol I must be on a big old delay.

    Bowled by big Trump(elmann)
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.

    Do you fancy a bet on this?
    Not a huge one, but let’s say £100. If Tories are 28% or above you pay me, if they are 24% or below I pay you, if 24-28 we call it quits.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,797
    Yes, that decision to drop Jacks.....
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    For all the development in football over the past 10 years, the Italian's never change.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Butler playing himself in.

    Or not. Lol I must be on a big old delay.

    Bowled by big Trump(elmann)
    You are.

    The next over will be Salt in your wounds.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Are you close to this? I've heard from people who were *very* close to this that not only could he stand, was *was* standing. Its only at the last the party withdrew its approval for his candidacy.

    The optics look bad because it is bad.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,963
    edited June 15
    2 down, light on batting. England are going to have to bowl well....
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,772
    Dan Lawrence of Surrey has the oddest of run-ups. Like a duck wondering whether it has left the iron on.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 15
    pigeon said:

    That Reform seat list doesn't pass the smell test. The unexpectedly good SNP total might, however. The woad and tartan hardcore of the pro-independence vote is quite large, and they don't really have anywhere else to go. Nobody thinks the Scottish Greens or Alba are going to win any seats.

    I maintain my assumption that the Tory membership will probably install Suella as the next leader, assuming that she is returned.

    They won't get the chance. Tory MPs pick the final 2 and are more likely to pick Barclay and Tugendhat, both in ultra safe seats, or Cleverly if he holds Braintree which was Labour in 1997 and goes Labour again on some projections
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    But optics *are* part of politics. Mr Ross should have followed the other half of his seat - or just stopped being a pluralist tout court and stuck with his MSP seat.
    Well, we can take a view on the optics, and you have a point. But the actual situation that arose, and which led to this is delicate. The decision made re DD was not a political play however much it may seem like it from a distance.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    I have asked @TheScreamingEagles to clamp down on subsampling, which has slipped back into PB and threatens to overwhelm the site.

    Poll cherrypicking is another worrying development. A veteran like @Leon really ought to know better.
    Don't be too hard on Leon, he is a relative newbie. He's only been here post COVID so missed GE2019.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,874
    edited June 15

    HYUFD said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
    The job of the next Tory leader is to unite the right. It can't be someone who repels part of the voter coalition they need to put back together. At the mo I would say Penny Mordaunt seems best-placed.
    Mordaunt loses her Portsmouth N seat to Labour on most current polls, Labour won it in 1997
    How much of a personal vote does Mordaunt have? As a possible future leader, does that buy her some extra support?
    It will be interesting to see how both Mordaunt and Mercer perform in terms of personal vote. Both will find it tough to retain their seats but it might be that personal vote makes all the difference. I can't see personal vote helping Rees Mogg unless it is because he has forced all his indentured tenants to vote for him. ;)
    Ress Mogg is popular with likely Reform voters though and hard Brexiteers, so may stem leakage to Reform. Rosindell and Francois could hold on in the same manner as they could easily be Reform MPs
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.

    Do you fancy a bet on this?
    Not a huge one, but let’s say £100. If Tories are 28% or above you pay me, if they are 24% or below I pay you, if 24-28 we call it quits.
    That’s a bit boring

    Let’s make it below 26% I win; above 26% you win

    But just £50. Enough for a pleasant solo lunch
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    But optics *are* part of politics. Mr Ross should have followed the other half of his seat - or just stopped being a pluralist tout court and stuck with his MSP seat.
    We've also had the guff about how the Party Leader who sits on the Management Board knew nothing about it. They even put out to the Press and Journal that Ross isn't on the management board so can't have been involved. That lasted about half a second when someone pointed to the website showing him on the board.

    Banff and Buchan Conservatives are not a one-man band. They have other members - and councillors - who could have been stepped up. When the news broke I assumed it would be someone like Mark Findlater. No, Ross parachuted himself in. Never mind the optics of how dodgy that looks, the response from local Tories has been sheer rage. And for good reason.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    In baseball, several ways in which runs may be achieved and scored; one is for the batter to hit the ball to the outer reaches of the outfield, so the ball a) leaves the ball park; or b) takes so long to field and throw back that the batter crosses home plate after circuiting (counter-clockwise) all three bases.

    IF the batter achieves this with three teammates already on base (one each) that's a grand slam.

    (Which some traveling Brits may also have encountered as a breakfast special at Denny's.)
    Thank you!

    *investigates*

    Oh, no need to travel. That's just a rather small Scottish breakfast, complete with fried drop scones*, if you leave off the maple syrup and cream. (Really, one needs to add black pudding, tomato, mushrooms, and possibly Lorne sausage if at all peckish.)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtKXSyrxi0g

    *still made on girdles here - my mother made them and Mrs C's hairdresser still does. I have a girdle too but haven't done any for ages as we have that supply ...

  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.

    It’s simply not true

    UK Labour, TikTok: 200k followers

    https://www.tiktok.com/@uklabour

    Starmer doesn’t even have an official TikTok account

    Farage, TikTok: 720k followers. More than three times as many

    https://www.tiktok.com/@nigel_farage

    Are you ever right about ANYTHING???
    LABOUR IS WINNING THE SOCIAL MEDIA WAR WHILST REFORM IS PUNCHING ABOVE ITS WEIGHT

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-attracts-largest-following-across-social-media-platforms-13148421

    X.com (Twitter)

    "While Reform performed best on the platform in the last 30 days, this has done little to shift the overall picture. In terms of total number of followers, Labour sits at just over 1,020,000 followers, followed by the Conservative Party at 623,731. Reform 320,827.”

    Instagram

    "On Instagram, Labour's lead is less pronounced. Currently, the party sits at just under 295,000 followers to the Conservative Party's 207,795. Reform 81, 493.”

    TikTok

    "While less data is available for TikTok, the Labour Party's recently launched account had the most followers, with over 165,900.

    Reform, which unlike Labour and the Conservatives has had an official TikTok presence since 2022, had the second largest following, at over 141,000.

    TikTok allows users to view how many times a page's posts have been liked by users. Of the six parties, Labour came out on top attracting more than 3.6 million likes on its posts. Across all its content, Reform has the second-highest total, with over 1.4 million likes.”

    Facebook

    "On Facebook, Labour has the largest audience, with more than 1,069,000 users following its official page. The Conservative Party has the second-largest following, at more than 752,000. Reform 246,082”

    "What these numbers tell us

    On the state of the race on social media, Kate Dommett, professor of digital politics at the University of Sheffield, said "Across all four platforms the Conservatives are at a disadvantage to Labour, with just over 900,000 fewer followers."

    On the significance of this, Dommett said while it was "no guarantee of success," this disparity places the Conservatives at "an apparent disadvantage when it comes to communicating with electors."

    On the performance of Reform UK specifically, Dommett noted the party "is punching above its weight on many platforms" by attracting a competitive number of followers compared to more established parties."

    QED

  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.

    Do you fancy a bet on this?
    Not a huge one, but let’s say £100. If Tories are 28% or above you pay me, if they are 24% or below I pay you, if 24-28 we call it quits.
    That’s a bit boring

    Let’s make it below 26% I win; above 26% you win

    But just £50. Enough for a pleasant solo lunch
    Deal
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Aside; The LD MP for Cheadle died 24 days from terminal cancer after being re-elected in 2005.
    Is being ill a barrier to standing in an election?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    The dense small font two sided letter I got today from Sunak seems an election tactic unlikely to succeed. It didn’t even have a p.s.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,747

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Are you close to this? I've heard from people who were *very* close to this that not only could he stand, was *was* standing. Its only at the last the party withdrew its approval for his candidacy.

    The optics look bad because it is bad.
    Very strongly suspect my folk are "closer" thsn yours. David is popular. He wasn't stabbed. Optics are a different matter.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    TimS said:

    Don’t forget, chaps.

    There are tens, or even hundreds of thousands of BigGs out there. People who will say all sorts of things to pollsters, but who, in the quiet of the polling booth or discussing a postal vote with their wives over the kitchen table, will come home to the Tories.

    There are no loyal Faragists. He’s a fling. A bit of rough. In the end they come back. Not the erstwhile Labour voters, they’re going back to that home, but the habitual Conservative voters.

    That’s why the conservatives will
    end up with a vote share beginning with 3, and about 200 seats.

    Do you fancy a bet on this?
    Not a huge one, but let’s say £100. If Tories are 28% or above you pay me, if they are 24% or below I pay you, if 24-28 we call it quits.
    That’s a bit boring

    Let’s make it below 26% I win; above 26% you win

    But just £50. Enough for a pleasant solo lunch
    Deal
    🥂👍

    That’s a nice bet. We both have a decent chance, but we are betting what we sincerely believe
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 480
    bobbob said:

    Hopefully farage takes over the tories and delivers a PROPER brexit

    How is he going to deliver a "proper brexit" with 60 MPs?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,261
    Nigel Farage
    @Nigel_Farage
    Latest polling by Survation now predicts Reform UK will win 7 seats. The momentum is building.

    Almost enough to fill a taxi? 😂
  • DumbosaurusDumbosaurus Posts: 794
    Since things seem a bit quiet atm (by the standards of this campaign), who is everyone else's favourite sets of enemies on here? Personally I enjoy the @Leon V a small crew the most (and his ripostes which while variable are awesome, those who want him off the site can fuck off imo) with those who try to take on @Heathener probably coming up second (and again, her ripostes, although they're nowhere near as funny as Leon's are more delightfully vicious).

    Plus those two rather dislike each other which is also fun.

    And then there's @Casino_Royale versus the world, depending on sobriety and what he had for breakfast. Also awesomely ridiculous.

    @BartholomewRoberts often gets piled on but I don't think anyone viscerally dislikes him. And @Dura_Ace piles on everyone else in an extremely entertaining way but also no one seems upset.

    I'm sorry to those I've missed out but would like to know so I can see the simmering resentment in future posts.

    It's also interesting that with the possible exception of Casino and Heathener none of the above seem to actually be any good at betting.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    So now I understand the analogy:

    Sunak at the plate...

    A swing and a miss.
  • spudgfshspudgfsh Posts: 1,494

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Aside; The LD MP for Cheadle died 24 days from terminal cancer after being re-elected in 2005.
    Is being ill a barrier to standing in an election?
    in short, no...

    if someone dies before the close of nominations then they are withdrawn
    if they die following the close of nominations but before election day then the contest doesn't happen on election day and a by-election is held separately (as happened in 1997 I think)
    if they die following the election day it's a standard by-election.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,231
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    @Leon I’m on TikTok and Farage is not “all over it”

    Yes, Reform are doing a better job than the tories on most social media but Labour are way ahead of both in terms of output and followers.

    What you just can’t accept is that Farage is marmite. A lot of people on the right loathe him. He is not the answer.

    It’s simply not true

    UK Labour, TikTok: 200k followers

    https://www.tiktok.com/@uklabour

    Starmer doesn’t even have an official TikTok account

    Farage, TikTok: 720k followers. More than three times as many

    https://www.tiktok.com/@nigel_farage

    Are you ever right about ANYTHING???
    LABOUR IS WINNING THE SOCIAL MEDIA WAR WHILST REFORM IS PUNCHING ABOVE ITS WEIGHT

    https://news.sky.com/story/labour-attracts-largest-following-across-social-media-platforms-13148421

    X.com (Twitter)

    "While Reform performed best on the platform in the last 30 days, this has done little to shift the overall picture. In terms of total number of followers, Labour sits at just over 1,020,000 followers, followed by the Conservative Party at 623,731. Reform 320,827.”

    Instagram

    "On Instagram, Labour's lead is less pronounced. Currently, the party sits at just under 295,000 followers to the Conservative Party's 207,795. Reform 81, 493.”

    TikTok

    "While less data is available for TikTok, the Labour Party's recently launched account had the most followers, with over 165,900.

    Reform, which unlike Labour and the Conservatives has had an official TikTok presence since 2022, had the second largest following, at over 141,000.

    TikTok allows users to view how many times a page's posts have been liked by users. Of the six parties, Labour came out on top attracting more than 3.6 million likes on its posts. Across all its content, Reform has the second-highest total, with over 1.4 million likes.”

    Facebook

    "On Facebook, Labour has the largest audience, with more than 1,069,000 users following its official page. The Conservative Party has the second-largest following, at more than 752,000. Reform 246,082”

    "What these numbers tell us

    On the state of the race on social media, Kate Dommett, professor of digital politics at the University of Sheffield, said "Across all four platforms the Conservatives are at a disadvantage to Labour, with just over 900,000 fewer followers."

    On the significance of this, Dommett said while it was "no guarantee of success," this disparity places the Conservatives at "an apparent disadvantage when it comes to communicating with electors."

    On the performance of Reform UK specifically, Dommett noted the party "is punching above its weight on many platforms" by attracting a competitive number of followers compared to more established parties."

    QED

    Farage IS Reform. We all know this. So you need to compare the two big parties with Farage. Or indeed their leaders with Farage

    Even on TwiX Farage has more followers than Starmer and his tweets get more views

    But it’s really on TikTok that Farage is winning comprehensively
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,983
    Another variable for the PB election predictions competition? Maximum temperature in the UK on polling day.

    I predict 27C.

    We’re going from cold and miserable this last week, to milder but unsettled this week, to really rather nice the week after and then to mixed but very warm (I think) to start July.

    I want it to be warm and summery. We need some optimism to welcome in the new era. I’ll always remember the weather on 23rd June 2016. Dark, stormy and menacing.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,826
    GIN1138 said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Are we Ready4Rishi? No, said the country! :D
    He'll get more respect in the long run for going down fighting and with some dignity. After the election he can make a statement saying he will be resigning as Prime minister and recommending Sir Keir Starmer as his successor. He can then meet with his Conservative parliamentary colleagues to decide what the party ought to do.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,397
    Say what you like about @Leon.
    He gets on the custy side of the bets round here.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,350
    edited June 15
    spudgfsh said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Aside; The LD MP for Cheadle died 24 days from terminal cancer after being re-elected in 2005.
    Is being ill a barrier to standing in an election?
    in short, no...

    if someone dies before the close of nominations then they are withdrawn
    if they die following the close of nominations but before election day then the contest doesn't happen on election day and a by-election is held separately (as happened in 1997 I think)
    if they die following the election day it's a standard by-election.
    2005 South Staffordshire was on the 23rd June.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,812

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    Are you close to this? I've heard from people who were *very* close to this that not only could he stand, was *was* standing. Its only at the last the party withdrew its approval for his candidacy.

    The optics look bad because it is bad.
    Very strongly suspect my folk are "closer" thsn yours. David is popular. He wasn't stabbed. Optics are a different matter.
    Yet it's not your folk who are voting. It's the assorted Doric folk on the main street of Foggieloan, etc., who are. And that is what counts.
  • pigeonpigeon Posts: 4,837
    HYUFD said:

    pigeon said:

    That Reform seat list doesn't pass the smell test. The unexpectedly good SNP total might, however. The woad and tartan hardcore of the pro-independence vote is quite large, and they don't really have anywhere else to go. Nobody thinks the Scottish Greens or Alba are going to win any seats.

    I maintain my assumption that the Tory membership will probably install Suella as the next leader, assuming that she is returned.

    They won't get the chance. Tory MPs pick the final 2 and are more likely to pick Barclay and Tugendhat, both in ultra safe seats, or Cleverly if he holds Braintree which was Labour in 1997 and goes Labour again on some projections
    This very much depends on the nature of the surviving Conservative MPs. Which, to be perfectly honest, would require one to generate a list of the likely remnants from a drubbing and make a guess as to their inclinations, which I can't be bothered to do. Is it your opinion that the remnant is likely not to be inclined to go charging off further to the right?
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,274

    Mail going with the Keir the Commie Spy bombshell lol

    It’s desperate stuff . Starmer went to build a memorial and ended up in some Communist file as did a load of other people from around the world .

  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
    Plenty came of it. IPSA have cleared his dirty laundry as clean. Fine. Respect that. Not sure all the people who saw them will feel the same. It smells wrong, even if it is in order. In an election, feel matters way more than fact.

    His newly adopted local association threw him under the bus. With what they believed to be a scandal they had helped cover up. Complete with quotes. *Even the Tories* felt it was wrong, rules or not.

    The key scandal remains the abrupt sacking of Duguid. Tories demand that sick peopl go back to work - unless they are in the way. That action is definitely wrong, and the stench remains pungent.

    If Ross turns up to the hustings on Thursday it could be interesting.
    The Duguid thing is very unfortunate and delicate. He most certainly was not thrown under a bus. Circumstances made his candidature unviable. He's not just a bit sick I'm afraid. It's a sad situation.
    In no way was his candidature unviable. He would not be able to campaign in person. His team would continue to push his name and his message as he continues to recover.

    Remember that he remained on the candidate list and was selected whilst far more seriously ill than he is now. And he is getting better every day.

    What they did to him was genuinely disgusting. And from what I read / hear it is universally felt.
    No. You're wrong. While opinions may vary about whether Douglas Ross was right to go for the seat - he's taking a huge risk - there is no controversy among those close to this that DD simply couldn't stand. Appreciate the optics look bad but that's the situation.
    But optics *are* part of politics. Mr Ross should have followed the other half of his seat - or just stopped being a pluralist tout court and stuck with his MSP seat.
    You mean he could have kept the promise he'd previously given?

    Fat chance of that.
This discussion has been closed.