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Survation is great for Lab and the SNP but awful for the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • Wulfrun_PhilWulfrun_Phil Posts: 4,780
    HYUFD said:

    Given the awful week they have had the Survation MPR isn't that bad for the Tories. They remain official opposition ahead of the LDs and are still ahead of Reform on votes as well as seats.

    Obviously it is excellent for Labour, giving them an even bigger majority than New Labour got in 1997. Not that good for the SNP though, even 37 seats would be 11 fewer than they have now and almost as bad as the 35 they got in 2017

    The Survation MRP was conducted over two weeks, not just the last week which I agree was awful for the Tories.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,687
    Leon said:

    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    He’s been in puglia groping meloni
    That doesn’t necessarily stop him, there is usually a camera somewhere.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,522

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    ThanksTSE.

    Have to agree with you - SNP and Reform are a buy, Tories a sell.

    I wouldn't sell the Tories at 108.
    I'm not going to be dabbling in the spreads this time.

    But.

    Almost every Tory I know won't be voting Tory this time.

    I'd take 108 any day. Suspect reality could be a lot worse.
    If they aren't voting Tory this time they aren't really Tories are they. Either swing voters if voting Labour or LD or rightwing nationalists if voting Reform
    Are my wife and I conservatives then following our decision this morning to vote conservative
    As you are in Wales, true Conservatives would be voting Plaid Cymru.
    Yes and absolutely not (but maybe with one exception on here !!!!!l)
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,092
    edited June 15
    darkage said:

    If this poll is what happens...

    - RefUK is 12% vote share = 7 seats (1% = 0.6 seats)
    - Conservative is 24% vote share = 72 seats (1% = 3 seats)
    - Lib Dem is 11% vote share = 56 seats (1% = 5.1 seats)
    - SNP is 4% vote share = 37 seats (1% = 9.25 seats)
    - Labour is 40% vote share = 456 seats (1% = 11.4 seats)

    What does the 40 year average look like? At a guess Tories have benefited at the expense of LDs, Labour where they should be. Greens and kippers absolutely shafted.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,797
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    But Farage might be far and away the most inspiring candidate for leader if he is willing to defect/merge

    That’s the ting. Farage has the oomph and he appeals to the young. He is the one chance of the Tories storming back to power with an entirely new agenda. Proper right wing policies

    If they elect some wet fool like tugendhat it means the Tories are accepting 10-15 years in opposition
    Tory members won't elect Tugendhat, Tory MPs might put him in the last 2 but the rightwing alternative MPs put up against him, Barclay, Cleverly most likely of surviving MPs, less likely Badenoch, Jenrick or Patel would probably win.

    Farage gets the right back to 30-35% if he led a united Tory and Reform party under FPTP but that is it. He also needs to win over 2019 Conservatives now voting Labour or LD and avoid any One Nation Tories going LD if he became leader of their party
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,425
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    I think Farage is hoping for more than one. His ideal is a handful, and level or better than Tories in %.

    If he got 30 or 40 he would have all sorts of problems with inexperienced politicians who didn't actually want to win the seat, which would jeopardise the long game he is playing.
    Given the amount he smokes and drinks, I would advise him to play a shorter game.
    That's Farage's other problem. The calendar and his age don't really work.

    Shouldn't have ducked out in 2019.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    He's been at the G7 and the Ukraine peace summit today
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,752
    Could we see some cricket maybe, possibly, please???
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,882
    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    I don't know, but I suspect that senior party figures (Cameron? Hague? May?) have been in conclave going over ALL aspects of the campaign until polling day - and giving it a damned good kicking. Sunak will do as he is told.

    And then quietly depart the stage after July 5th.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,522
    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    He has been at the G7 meeting re security for Ukraine

    And he didn't leave early as far as I know !!!
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,522
    IanB2 said:

    Which is the seat with a Tory maj of about 30,500 which Survation says Labour will win?

    Goal!

    Where is that?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,752
    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,088

    Could we see some cricket maybe, possibly, please???

    Cricket: the most boring "sport" in the world?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,100
    edited June 15
    Italy! 2:1
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,088
    2-1 to Italy!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,797
    edited June 15
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    Yes, landslide defeat should at least make the Tory Parliamentary party rather posher than it was from 2019 to the recent dissolution (most of the losers will be MPs from the redwall and leave seats, even if a minority in the Home Counties and west London lose to the LDs like Hunt).

    Much more private school and Oxbridge and the City or law or SPAD background and also it may be acceptable to even have a Tory MP to dinner again at Hampstead or Kensington and Chelsea or North Oxford dinner parties or one of TSE's candlelit suppers without having to worry about them being a working class by background hard Brexiteer from north of Watford. However the hosts still wouldn't be seen dead inviting a Reform MP or candidate to one of their posh dinner parties
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 15


    This is a very important moment in the campaign,.

    Or maybe it isn’t and you don’t want to hear that?
  • rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    I think Farage is hoping for more than one. His ideal is a handful, and level or better than Tories in %.

    If he got 30 or 40 he would have all sorts of problems with inexperienced politicians who didn't actually want to win the seat, which would jeopardise the long game he is playing.
    Given the amount he smokes and drinks, I would advise him to play a shorter game.
    Brutal but a fair point that illustrates Reforms biggest problem and asset.

    Hence he needs to reverse takeover the Conservatives, ie merge with them as the smaller party but take them over ideologically. I suspect it would see a split with the one nation torys defecting to the Libdems.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,687

    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    He has been at the G7 meeting re security for Ukraine

    And he didn't leave early as far as I know !!!
    Normally a pm in a campaign would be using this an opportunity to press their statesman persona differentiating heavily from the LotO. Sunak is not doing that. Odd.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Jonathan said:

    It is just me of has Sunak had a relatively quiet few days. Has he been benched?

    G7
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,522

    Could we see some cricket maybe, possibly, please???

    Cricket: the most boring "sport" in the world?
    Our younger grandson (10) has gone from rugby to football and now cricket and loves it (so far)
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    But Farage might be far and away the most inspiring candidate for leader if he is willing to defect/merge

    That’s the ting. Farage has the oomph and he appeals to the young. He is the one chance of the Tories storming back to power with an entirely new agenda. Proper right wing policies

    If they elect some wet fool like tugendhat it means the Tories are accepting 10-15 years in opposition
    Tory members won't elect Tugendhat, Tory MPs might put him in the last 2 but the rightwing alternative MPs put up against him, Barclay, Cleverly most likely of surviving MPs, less likely Badenoch, Jenrick or Patel would probably win.

    Farage gets the right back to 30-35% if he led a united Tory and Reform party under FPTP but that is it. He also needs to win over 2019 Conservatives now voting Labour or LD and avoid any One Nation Tories going LD if he became leader of their party
    You do have a finger on the pulse to be fair
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,191
    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    Yes, landslide defeat should at least make the Tory Parliamentary party rather posher than it was in 2019.

    Much more private school and Oxbridge and the City or law or SPAD background and also it may be acceptable to even have a Tory MP to dinner again at Hampstead or Kensington and Chelsea dinner parties or one of TSE's candlelit suppers without having to worry about them being a working class by background hard Brexiteer from north of Watford. However the hosts still wouldn't be seen dead inviting a Reform MP or candidate to one of their posh dinner parties
    Your posts are well mint. I appreciate good writing, and these are among the best.
  • NovoNovo Posts: 60

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Is this another one?


    📊 Labour lead at 17pts
    Westminster voting intention

    LAB: 40% (-2)
    CON: 23% (-1)
    REF: 14% (+2)
    LDEM: 12% (+2)
    GRN: 7% (-)

    I suspect the Greens will not get 7% on the day: I suspect they'll get squeezed down to 3-4%, with the "winners" being Labour and the LibDems.

    CON could get 30% based on this IF half REF go to CON?

    220 seats on that scenario??
    Would require some widespread deployment of trademarked polly nosepegs on the day.
    In your dreams!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,100

    "One thing largely unnoticed in Labour’s manifesto: it will give public bodies a legal duty to reduce inequality (by enacting the socio-economic duty in the 2010 Equality Act for the first time). The socio-economic duty would have posed a significant legal obstacle to austerity (one reason the Conservatives never enacted it)."

    https://x.com/georgeeaton/status/1801968518243439000

    Which means they will likely face a huge economic crises before their first term is out (along the lines of having to raise interest rates significantly to shift gilts and shore up the £). The government is already spending more on interest than defence and education combined).
    I said on here yesterday that SKS could be a one-term PM, and got pilloried for it.

    I must say, I'm looking forward to being hailed as a great prophet if (when) it happens.
    You still haven’t clarified whether you expect Labour to be swept from office after one term, or whether you simply see Starmer handing on to Reeves or Streeting?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,168
    EPG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    We need two non-Labour parties which can be personified by the figures of Cameron and Farage.

    One would be the continuity coalition and the other would represent the revolt against it.

    They wouldn't compete directly agaisnt each other in many places, but both would be a danger to Labour and could eventually reduce Labour to a rump.
    Who needs that? Not the 40% of voters who are SBK fans please explain.
    When Sir Beer Korma fans wake up with a hangover and need a detox, they'll be looking for an alternative and will want a choice.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,425
    IanB2 said:

    Which is the seat with a Tory maj of about 30,500 which Survation says Labour will win?

    Goal!

    Rayleigh and Wickford.

    Essex Man going Reform?

    Plus- once the swing goes proportional, big majorities are much easier to overcome.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    Toss 8.40

    Start 9

    11 overs a side match.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,191
    Tories will be within 2% either way of 30% come the election.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    IanB2 said:

    Which is the seat with a Tory maj of about 30,500 which Survation says Labour will win?

    Goal!

    I don't know what the notional majorities are, but perhaps Brigg and Immingham, or Louth and Horncastle?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Mail going with the Keir the Commie Spy bombshell lol
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,752
    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    EPG said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    We need two non-Labour parties which can be personified by the figures of Cameron and Farage.

    One would be the continuity coalition and the other would represent the revolt against it.

    They wouldn't compete directly agaisnt each other in many places, but both would be a danger to Labour and could eventually reduce Labour to a rump.
    Who needs that? Not the 40% of voters who are SBK fans please explain.
    When Sir Beer Korma fans wake up with a hangover and need a detox, they'll be looking for an alternative and will want a choice.
    Well, that was the theory behind Absolute Boy as PM.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,799

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,168

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
    They might win the election, but they won't have won the Argument.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,623

    Could we see some cricket maybe, possibly, please???

    This World Cup has been an even bigger mess than the Hundred.
  • HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    Yes, landslide defeat should at least make the Tory Parliamentary party rather posher than it was from 2019 to the recent dissolution (most of the losers will be MPs from the redwall and leave seats, even if a minority in the Home Counties and west London lose to the LDs like Hunt).

    Much more private school and Oxbridge and the City or law or SPAD background and also it may be acceptable to even have a Tory MP to dinner again at Hampstead or Kensington and Chelsea or North Oxford dinner parties or one of TSE's candlelit suppers without having to worry about them being a working class by background hard Brexiteer from north of Watford. However the hosts still wouldn't be seen dead inviting a Reform MP or candidate to one of their posh dinner parties
    Probably accurate and also sums up one of the UKs greatest problems - that class snobbery among the great and good hasn't gone away you know...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,138
    JACK_W said:

    A few random thoughts and reminders :smile:

    1. The trend is your friend. Reform/LibDems up. Lab/Con down
    2. Look for sample dates/events
    3. Full tactical voting trend yet to play out
    4. No constituency polling yet.
    5. Give a point or two split appears Centre Left/Left 60% Centre Right/ Right 40%
    6. Electoral history is your guide not a certainty.
    7. Your local knowledge is valuable.

    That said my feel for the final GB result is %/seats

    Lab 40% .. 480
    Con 20% .. 60
    Ref 17% .. 3
    LD 15% .. 69
    Gr 4% .. 2
    SNP 3% .. 11
    PC 2% ... 4
    Others .. 3

    The ARSE makes a welcome return!
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 15
    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    I just predicted Farage will fall notably short of the Tory share and gain a mighty tally of 3 seats. Other than that yes I am doing moneyshots
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,797
    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    ThanksTSE.

    Have to agree with you - SNP and Reform are a buy, Tories a sell.

    I wouldn't sell the Tories at 108.
    I'm not going to be dabbling in the spreads this time.

    But.

    Almost every Tory I know won't be voting Tory this time.

    I'd take 108 any day. Suspect reality could be a lot worse.
    If they aren't voting Tory this time they aren't really Tories are they? Either swing voters if voting Labour or LD or rightwing nationalists if voting Reform
    Several are Tory members.

    Tory enough for you?
    No, clearly they are Farage loving, anti immigration hard Brexiteers more than Tories.

    Nothing necessarily wrong with that but they aren't loyal Tories.

    To be a loyal Tory one has to be voting for Rishi now and also to have voted for Boris in 2019, to have voted for Major in 1997 as well as in 1992, for Hague in 2001 as well as Cameron in 2010
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,831
    edited June 15
    rcs1000 said:

    Sighs of relief from CCHQ that there’s not been huge leaps for REF in these polls.

    Was the fieldwork done after the YouGov Crossover was reported?

    Given the vote share in their previous polls, it would have taken a huge rise in Reform to overtake them this time.

    The % movement is consistent with Yougov though.

    It is very difficult to weight correctly when minor parties abruptly start to perform exceptionally well on a sample of 1,000 to 2,000 , as you don't have previous behaviour to baseline it with.
    What we do know from UKIP and from the Alliance in the 1980s, is that parties start of geographically dispersed, and then their vote gets more efficient over time, as they (a) learn to target resources efficiently, and (b) build up a councillor base that enables them to be "winning here".
    That would be true for a normal party, but Reform are either a Farage Publicity Vehicle, or a Special Purpose Vehicle created for the purpose of taking over the Tories.

    If they were aiming to do things the way a normal party does things then Farage would have been hard at work since Johnson was given the heave, and they'd probably have made a start on building up councillors.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,191

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
    They might win the election, but they won't have won the Argument.
    There’s a place in Momentum waiting for you after the election.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 15

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
    They might win the election, but they won't have won the Argument.
    Lol

    Straight out of a spoof.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,191

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
    42%.

    Tories 32%.

    Reform 6%
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,882
    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Seeing the loyalty to Brand Tory on the doorsteps, the only way Reform poll 15% is for Labour to shed some significant votes to them. I don't see there being any chance Reform overtake the Conservatives in actual votes. The Conservatives can then tell Farage to spin on it - and begin to build their vote share on the back of Labour being a disaster.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,797
    edited June 15

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    We need two non-Labour parties which can be personified by the figures of Cameron and Farage.

    One would be the continuity coalition and the other would represent the revolt against it.

    They wouldn't compete directly agaisnt each other in many places, but both would be a danger to Labour and could eventually reduce Labour to a rump.
    That only works under PR or AV, with FPTP they just split the right and give Labour a landslide as on current polls
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,106
    No sign of convergence between pollsters. Exit poll will be fascinating.

    The uncertainty now is just as to whether the Tories get a very bad result, or a calamitous result where they fall behind another party on vote share and/or seats.

    What we have definitely not seen is any 'swingback' or Tory recovery in any polls. It's just that different pollsters put their situation at varying levels of desperate.

    18 days of campaigning for that to change. Maybe Reform momentum will fade and they'll bounce off their current lows, but the recovery up to 30% now seems implausible.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,623

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Yeah, and look how that worked out.

    He is no good at swinging for fences. Boring competence is what he could - should - have offered.

    Unfortunately after all the epic cock-ups he's made nobody will believe him if he offers it and it probably wouldn't be enough anyway.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    I just predicted Farage will fall notably short of the Tory share and gain a mighty tally of 3 seats. Other than that yes I am doing moneyshots
    You came out with your usual rimming of Nigel Farage.

    He’s the only politician with the charisma to lead the Conservatives, and young people love him etc. etc.

    Just the usual utter bollocks you spout on here hour after hour.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    Whatever. I’ve made a prediction, I note that it is very close to that of the Hon @JackW who even if he is in his 9th incarnation, knows a thing or two
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    JACK_W said:

    A few random thoughts and reminders :smile:

    1. The trend is your friend. Reform/LibDems up. Lab/Con down
    2. Look for sample dates/events
    3. Full tactical voting trend yet to play out
    4. No constituency polling yet.
    5. Give a point or two split appears Centre Left/Left 60% Centre Right/ Right 40%
    6. Electoral history is your guide not a certainty.
    7. Your local knowledge is valuable.

    That said my feel for the final GB result is %/seats

    Lab 40% .. 480
    Con 20% .. 60
    Ref 17% .. 3
    LD 15% .. 69
    Gr 4% .. 2
    SNP 3% .. 11
    PC 2% ... 4
    Others .. 3

    The ARSE makes a welcome return!
    Oh that was an unfortunate juxtaposition. Maybe there is a God.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,931

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,982
    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    Its going to be a grim night but seeing Farage lose for the 9th time will be one of the highlights.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,168
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate. Gentle decline for the two “big” parties albeit with Labour WAYY ahead

    Gentle rise for Reform/LDs

    Plucking numbers out of my Cornish butt I expect these trends to continue but not dramatically. So, barring black swans, here’s my mid campaign guess at a final share at the GE

    Labour: 38
    Con: 21
    Ref: 16
    LD: 14
    Green: 4
    SNP: 3

    Baxtered, that gives:

    Labour: 442
    Con: 95
    Ref: 3
    LD: 65
    SNP: 21

    That doesn’t look too far from a likely reality

    I’m with you on the Labour score. I think late 30s is likely.
    They might win the election, but they won't have won the Argument.
    Lol

    Straight out of a spoof.

    I was making fun of Corbyn. :)

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/dec/14/we-won-the-argument-but-i-regret-we-didnt-convert-that-into-a-majority-for-change
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,354
    JACK_W said:

    A few random thoughts and reminders :smile:

    1. The trend is your friend. Reform/LibDems up. Lab/Con down
    2. Look for sample dates/events
    3. Full tactical voting trend yet to play out
    4. No constituency polling yet.
    5. Give a point or two split appears Centre Left/Left 60% Centre Right/ Right 40%
    6. Electoral history is your guide not a certainty.
    7. Your local knowledge is valuable.

    That said my feel for the final GB result is %/seats

    Lab 40% .. 480
    Con 20% .. 60
    Ref 17% .. 3
    LD 15% .. 69
    Gr 4% .. 2
    SNP 3% .. 11
    PC 2% ... 4
    Others .. 3

    ARSE returns! :open_mouth:
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,882
    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    HYUFD said:

    Mortimer said:

    ThanksTSE.

    Have to agree with you - SNP and Reform are a buy, Tories a sell.

    I wouldn't sell the Tories at 108.
    I'm not going to be dabbling in the spreads this time.

    But.

    Almost every Tory I know won't be voting Tory this time.

    I'd take 108 any day. Suspect reality could be a lot worse.
    If they aren't voting Tory this time they aren't really Tories are they? Either swing voters if voting Labour or LD or rightwing nationalists if voting Reform
    Several are Tory members.

    Tory enough for you?
    No, clearly they are Farage loving, anti immigration hard Brexiteers more than Tories.

    Nothing necessarily wrong with that but they aren't loyal Tories.

    To be a loyal Tory one has to be voting for Rishi now and also to have voted for Boris in 2019, to have voted for Major in 1997 as well as in 1992, for Hague in 2001 as well as Cameron in 2010
    And for the Tories in the 2017 Euros???
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,797
    ydoethur said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Yeah, and look how that worked out.

    He is no good at swinging for fences. Boring competence is what he could - should - have offered.

    Unfortunately after all the epic cock-ups he's made nobody will believe him if he offers it and it probably wouldn't be enough anyway.
    Rishi got 43% in the 2022 Tory leadership vote with the members, that was closer than expected mid campaign when polls had a Truss landslide with the membership.

    The final debate one on one with Starmer with no Farage a week before polling day is Rishi's chance to make his final case to undecideds
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    Whatever. I’ve made a prediction, I note that it is very close to that of the Hon @JackW who even if he is in his 9th incarnation, knows a thing or two
    It’s close to mine too as it happens but your rubbish about Farage just shows you are totally out of touch with this country. They guy repulses as much as he attracts, right across the spectrum and age bands. He is NOT the answer for the Conservative Party and certainly not for the country. Only in your own MAGAnut Trumpian fantasy world.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    I just predicted Farage will fall notably short of the Tory share and gain a mighty tally of 3 seats. Other than that yes I am doing moneyshots
    You came out with your usual rimming of Nigel Farage.

    He’s the only politician with the charisma to lead the Conservatives, and young people love him etc. etc.

    Just the usual utter bollocks you spout on here hour after hour.
    I’m just right. As ever. Farage is all over TikTok and is popular with the young in a way Starmer and Sunak can only dream

    And when the Tories are down to 90 MPs and the choice is Steve Barclay or Suella Braverman suddenly Farage will look really appealing
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    But Farage might be far and away the most inspiring candidate for leader if he is willing to defect/merge

    That’s the ting. Farage has the oomph and he appeals to the young. He is the one chance of the Tories storming back to power with an entirely new agenda. Proper right wing policies

    If they elect some wet fool like tugendhat it means the Tories are accepting 10-15 years in opposition
    Tory members won't elect Tugendhat, Tory MPs might put him in the last 2 but the rightwing alternative MPs put up against him, Barclay, Cleverly most likely of surviving MPs, less likely Badenoch, Jenrick or Patel would probably win.

    Farage gets the right back to 30-35% if he led a united Tory and Reform party under FPTP but that is it. He also needs to win over 2019 Conservatives now voting Labour or LD and avoid any One Nation Tories going LD if he became leader of their party
    I think a Farage led Conservative party would struggle to hit 30%. The guy is marmite - a right wing Corbyn, who repels as many as he attracts.

    What it does say, though, is there's a huge number of voters whose #1 priority now is immigration. Because, ultimately, that is what a vote for Farage is - it's a "tick this box if you think immigration is too high".

    Both Labour and the Conservatives could shoot the Faragist fox tomorrow by providing concrete pledges on how to bring immigration down to sustainable levels, and to build infrastructure to cope with the influx we have now.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,354

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Are we Ready4Rishi? No, said the country! :D
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,138

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    But Farage might be far and away the most inspiring candidate for leader if he is willing to defect/merge

    That’s the ting. Farage has the oomph and he appeals to the young. He is the one chance of the Tories storming back to power with an entirely new agenda. Proper right wing policies

    This is almost verbatim what you wrote about Liz Truss too.

    You are clueless when it comes to political judgement.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,752
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    I have asked @TheScreamingEagles to clamp down on subsampling, which has slipped back into PB and threatens to overwhelm the site.

    Poll cherrypicking is another worrying development. A veteran like @Leon really ought to know better.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    Whatever. I’ve made a prediction, I note that it is very close to that of the Hon @JackW who even if he is in his 9th incarnation, knows a thing or two
    It’s close to mine too as it happens but your rubbish about Farage just shows you are totally out of touch with this country. They guy repulses as much as he attracts, right across the spectrum and age bands. He is NOT the answer for the Conservative Party and certainly not for the country. Only in your own MAGAnut Trumpian fantasy world.
    You despise the Tories. You want them annihilated (as do I but for very different reasons). Why on earth should they take your advice, even if they can be persuaded that’s its genuine?
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,882
    TimS said:

    Tories will be within 2% either way of 30% come the election.

    If that plays out, there are going to be some very funny threads to re-read....
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    That Opinium poll is the most recent so I suggest it’s the most accurate.

    Ahhh good old Mike would have taken you to task for such a breach of The Golden Rule.

    It’s also wrong. Savanta was the same 12th-14th timeframe.

    But picking and choosing a poll which most fits your preconceived idea is a fool’s game, especially for those of us betting on outcomes.
    I have asked @TheScreamingEagles to clamp down on subsampling, which has slipped back into PB and threatens to overwhelm the site.

    Poll cherrypicking is another worrying development. A veteran like @Leon really ought to know better.
    It’s the most recent poll, and I rate Opinium
  • trukattrukat Posts: 39
    kyf_100 said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Here's the thing, though: Reform is likely to do much better in the Red Wall than in the South East. The Rump Conservative Party is therefore going to be full of MPs who are more terrified of the Yellow Peril than of losing to Reform.
    But Farage might be far and away the most inspiring candidate for leader if he is willing to defect/merge

    That’s the ting. Farage has the oomph and he appeals to the young. He is the one chance of the Tories storming back to power with an entirely new agenda. Proper right wing policies

    If they elect some wet fool like tugendhat it means the Tories are accepting 10-15 years in opposition
    Tory members won't elect Tugendhat, Tory MPs might put him in the last 2 but the rightwing alternative MPs put up against him, Barclay, Cleverly most likely of surviving MPs, less likely Badenoch, Jenrick or Patel would probably win.

    Farage gets the right back to 30-35% if he led a united Tory and Reform party under FPTP but that is it. He also needs to win over 2019 Conservatives now voting Labour or LD and avoid any One Nation Tories going LD if he became leader of their party
    I think a Farage led Conservative party would struggle to hit 30%. The guy is marmite - a right wing Corbyn, who repels as many as he attracts.

    What it does say, though, is there's a huge number of voters whose #1 priority now is immigration. Because, ultimately, that is what a vote for Farage is - it's a "tick this box if you think immigration is too high".

    Both Labour and the Conservatives could shoot the Faragist fox tomorrow by providing concrete pledges on how to bring immigration down to sustainable levels, and to build infrastructure to cope with the influx we have now.
    No one would believe them. It is going to take more than words this time.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,354

    TimS said:

    Tories will be within 2% either way of 30% come the election.

    If that plays out, there are going to be some very funny threads to re-read....
    And a LOT of very embarrassed pollsters (maybe even a few going out of business soon after 4th July?)
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    It was quite the thing, to see a Tory getting the Rayner treatment from his own side. Even - especially - if it did not come to anything in the end.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,504
    edited June 15

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    The whole Tory campaign is just weird. They keep persisting with President Sunak approach, but it clearly isn't working. Does he think he is way more popular than the party or something?

    They came out going all Reform-y with National Service, then the manifesto was totally the opposite, no red meat for natural Tory voter.

    Nothing makes any sense. And these are the people who called in the GE in the first place.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    Leon said:

    Reform’s aim must be to get 15% and at least one seat: Farage

    Farage then stands a chance of doing a reverse-takeover of the rump Tory party post-election, if the Tories end up with ~20-22% and 70-110 seats

    I think it’s highly unlikely (but not impossible) they can overtake the Tories in total votes and essentially impossible for them to do it in terms of seats

    Seeing the loyalty to Brand Tory on the doorsteps, the only way Reform poll 15% is for Labour to shed some significant votes to them. I don't see there being any chance Reform overtake the Conservatives in actual votes. The Conservatives can then tell Farage to spin on it - and begin to build their vote share on the back of Labour being a disaster.
    Yes, and polls are consistent with this narrative: Conservative vote down by less than 50%. But in fairness, they also consistently have Conservatives down by around 40%. Some of your reportage sounds like the vote is very sticky and loyal - maybe down by 10%, ending up on 39% nationally?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,623
    HYUFD said:

    ydoethur said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Yeah, and look how that worked out.

    He is no good at swinging for fences. Boring competence is what he could - should - have offered.

    Unfortunately after all the epic cock-ups he's made nobody will believe him if he offers it and it probably wouldn't be enough anyway.
    Rishi got 43% in the 2022 Tory leadership vote with the members, that was closer than expected mid campaign when polls had a Truss landslide with the membership.

    The final debate one on one with Starmer with no Farage a week before polling day is Rishi's chance to make his final case to undecideds
    Sunak lost to Truss. A woman so lazy, incompetent and arrogant she was comprehensively outmanoeuvred by that fat drunken old weirdo Sergey Lavrov. Losing to her at all, even with that electorate was a profound humiliation.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,193
    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Leon said:

    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    I just predicted Farage will fall notably short of the Tory share and gain a mighty tally of 3 seats. Other than that yes I am doing moneyshots
    You came out with your usual rimming of Nigel Farage.

    He’s the only politician with the charisma to lead the Conservatives, and young people love him etc. etc.

    Just the usual utter bollocks you spout on here hour after hour.
    I’m just right. As ever. Farage is all over TikTok and is popular with the young in a way Starmer and Sunak can only dream

    And when the Tories are down to 90 MPs and the choice is Steve Barclay or Suella Braverman suddenly Farage will look really appealing
    This website is full of people who want to believe Farage is the reincarnation of Oswald Mosley, and that his voters are racists.

    They miss the point that the baseline Reform voter’s major grievance is that ITV cancelled Heartbeat, and if services worked and immigration “felt” under control, they would go back to that.

    They also fail to see that Farage, like Boris, makes many people smile and fell good about themselves in a way few other current politicians do. Ken Clarke had it. Livingstone had it. It’s unevenly distributed.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247
    DavidL said:

    Heathener said:

    Not much evidence of the Faragasm in tonight’s polls.

    Shhhh @Leon doesn’t want to hear this. He thinks Farage is the most exciting person since the last most exciting person he championed and that ALL the young people LOVE him.

    Meanwhile, back in reality ...
    Its going to be a grim night but seeing Farage lose for the 9th time will be one of the highlights.
    If you believe Farage is gonna lose in Clacton you can make easy money betting against him. He’s odds on: 1/3

    https://www.oddschecker.com/insight/politics/20240604-general-election-odds-which-seats-are-the-reform-party-most-likely-to-win

    I suggest you save your pennies. He’s highly likely to win that seat
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,799

    DavidL said:

    The SNP score is particularly disappointing for me and I find it hard to relate to what I am seeing on the ground in Scotland. The SNP are almost invisible because they have no money. We have had 1 leaflet from the SNP and 6 from the Tories (neither Labour nor the Lib Dems are wasting their time in this constituency, I am not even sure Reform are standing). This is in an SNP seat.

    Will that make a difference, other than to the recycling bins? Who knows, but it is a long time since the SNP have had so little impact in a major election. I will be gutted if they pick up 37 seats, gutted.

    On the ground in ANME:
    Tories - their freepost is dropping. Addressed to household not voter. No other activity that we are aware of
    SNP - no money but plenty of bodies. Extensively doorknocking.
    Labour - nothing at all
    Reform - nothing at all
    LibDem - selected doorknocking. We're targeting key wards rather than the whole constituency. Targets will get quite a lot of stuff through the letterbox. Plus a targeted Facebook ad campaign which will be pretty intensive in the remaining weeks

    As for the SNP, we're getting that much of their vote is softer than usual. A lot of upset about the state of public services. The odd mention of corruption. Frequent mentions of arrogance and being taken for granted...
    I guess likely outcome there is Tories & SNP in mid-30s with Lab 3rd and Libs 4th. Think Ross will edge it. Sorry, but I doubt there is a huge suppressed LibDem vote just waiting to surge out from Buckie, Fraserburgh and Peterhead.
    Its possible! You've said a couple of times that there isn't a suppressed LD vote - it isn't suppressed! We have councillors! As for finishing behind Labour? Sure - could happen. But there is no sign of a Labour vote here either - finished 4th in 2019 and have zero representation.

    Ross vs Logan? I think Logan. Ross is deeply unpopular even amongst his own people - they leaked the "we think his expenses are dodgy" story last weekend and provided quotes to the newspaper...
    Interesting. I just suspect there may be a latent Labour vote in the larger towns which could appear. Buckie used to elect Labour cllrs not so long ago. I don't know anything about Logan except someone telling me he was pro-Sinn Fein. Not sure if thst is right.
    The "expenses story" btw went nowhere - Ross was exonerated by the parliamentary authorities despite Swinney's harrumphing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    Have you never played rounders?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,504

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,648

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    Oh goody, an American sport. Not enough phrases in English sport then? Bloody yanks, contaminating our language.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,168

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    As I was saying, we need the Cameron party (incorporating the Lib Dems) and the Farage party (incorporating the ERG and a bit of old Labour).
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,247

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    It’s embarrassing

    They should have said: he’s gone Bazball

    At least use a British reference rather than an Americanism no one understands. They are so CRINGE
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,138

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    Thank you. Not sure why it should be being used in the UK then.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,831

    Why are people suggesting the Reform vote could "go home" to the Tories? Read the polling and the mood - most Reform voters actively want the Tories to lose. Thats the whole point in voting Reform.

    I'm expecting three things to end up being true.

    1. The Reform polling will, in part, prove to be a bit of a social media bubble and they won't turn out in the numbers suggested.

    2. A lot of reluctant Tories who might currently be telling pollsters they won't vote, or don't know how they will vote, will in the end device it is their duty to vote, and that vote will be for the Tories, because it's always been for the Tories (and anyway, their conscience is clean, because the Tories are obviously going to lose in a landslide).

    3. There will be quite a few voters who would definitely pick Farage over Sunak, but won't have either on their ballot paper. They'll have a choice between their local Conservative, for their local Conservative party, or some random weirdo candidate for Reform that they've never heard of before. They will vote for their local Conservative confident that Sunak will be far away in California and hoping that the good people of Clacton will elect Farage.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    Carnyx said:

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    That still doesn't mean anything to normal sentient hominines.
    Have you never played rounders?
    Still doesn't mean anything ...
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    GIN1138 said:

    TimS said:

    Tories will be within 2% either way of 30% come the election.

    If that plays out, there are going to be some very funny threads to re-read....
    And a LOT of very embarrassed pollsters (maybe even a few going out of business soon after 4th July?)
    Nah.

    For most pollsters their political polling accounts for less than 1% of their revenue.

    Oddly it is on their political polling most pollsters get judged on.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,354

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Isn't that mostly just a reflection of name recognition?
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,504
    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can't actually do the job though can you e.g PMQs.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    Well.

    There was a moment last weekend when one of Rishi Sunak’s closest allies thought he had thrown in the towel. Badly bruised by the fury about his decision to come home early from the D-Day commemorations, the prime minister contemplated a disappearing act. “He was in a really bad way at the weekend,” one confidant revealed. “He wasn’t going to quit, but he was mulling whether he needed to completely remove himself from the election and let other people do it.”

    On Monday, however, Sunak had snapped out of his depression. One of those who was on his 2022 leadership team, when he lost to Liz Truss, said: “He’s like he was then. He was down for the first half of the campaign and then he decided he was just going to throw everything at it. His attitude is that he has to go out and swing for the fences.”


    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    Can anyone advise me on what "swing for the fences" means?
    It's baseball, when you try and hit the ball so hard you get a home run.
    Thank you. Not sure why it should be being used in the UK then.
    TSE ought to be using terms from camanachd or curling, if there is nothing suitable in "Association Football" or "Rugby Union". Proper UK sports.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,900
    Jos Buttler is a useless tosser.

    Namibia win the toss and put England in.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 82,504
    edited June 15
    Cricket...its on like Fat Pat thong. 11 overs a side.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,242

    Carnyx said:

    It is on.

    New polling by Charlesbye Communications shows that Cameron is the public’s preferred candidate to assume the leadership again after the election. He was on 25 per cent, with Farage on 20 per cent, one point ahead of Mordaunt, with the current bookmakers’ favourite Kemi Badenoch on 8 per cent. In the same survey, 2019 Tory voters put Mordaunt top on 27 per cent, three ahead of Cameron and four ahead of Farage, with Badenoch on 6 per cent.

    https://www.thetimes.com/uk/politics/article/project-fear-keir-rishi-sunaks-last-roll-of-the-dice-z2pxl00w3

    How can Cameron be leader when he isn't even an MP?
    Lord etc. etc.
    You can't actually do the job though can you e.g PMQs.
    The lord just delegates a minion to deal with the plebs.
This discussion has been closed.