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I suspect this is sub-optimal for the Tories and Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
  • Heathener said:

    rcs1000 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    pigeon said:

    Re: restaurants (FPT, can't quote, too fiddly on a primitive phone):

    "Middle class" chains: I find Pizza Express very reliable, Nando's variable and overrated.

    Pub food: is pot luck, but certainly not uniformly bad. Two examples that I frequent semi-regularly spring to mind, one good, one very good.

    As big a factor in the quality of mid-range restaurants as that of the food itself is that of the service, especially how bloody slow some of them are. They fail to employ enough people to wait tables and/or make the stuff in the first place, so even if it's very good it takes so long to arrive that it ruins the experience. I've given up on one local restaurant entirely because of this; I recently went into another, sat at table for an age and then walked out again when it became obvious that the one woman they had taking orders was going to take about two hours just to get to us. Hopeless.

    I much prefer Pizza Express to Nandos but the kids love Nandos for some unfathomable reason. I could quite happily eat every meal at Pizza Express for the rest of my life.
    I would genuinely prefer to go to Pizza Hut than Pizza Express, though as you are in London there are loads of independent pizza places that are superior to both all over the place, but if in provincial England and not fortunate to have that option it would be Pizza Hut every time.
    Really? I would put Pizza Hut in the same category as Dominos. We are lucky to have several independent pizza places nearby. But I actually rate Pizza Express pizzas. I worked in a pizza restaurant for four years when I was younger and would sometimes have pizza for lunch and dinner depending on the shift. Luckily I love pizza.
    I think the pizzas at Pizza Express are the worst pizzas I have ever eaten.
    You've led a very sheltered life.
    I've had a lot of different pizzas in a lot of different places. I've had pizza in New York and Missouri. In Wimbledon and Islington. Exeter and Edinburgh. West Cork and Genoa.

    Pizza Express was the worst. Though I'll grant that it's possible that this was a specific failing by Pizza Express Exeter, but why go to the trouble of verifying it as a general rather than specific failure?
    I've had a lot of pizzas too, and while I wouldn't rate Pizza Express particularly highly, I would rate it as light-years better than Pizza Hut or Domino's.
    Indeed.

    As for Pizza Hut’s disgusting salad bar … eww.
    I avoid any restaurant that uses the phrase "Sneeze Guard"
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    Sandpit said:

    Surely we on here all have our own pizza ovens in the garden next to the barbecue, to be fired up with dried wood as the summer nights arrive?

    Nearly bought one during covid, glad we didn't - not enough warm summer nights here to warrant one.
    My brother in law has one in the garden (specially built from brick). Fun for big family gatherings (and that side of the family IS big) but arguably more for the theatre than anything else.
    Yeah we considered it but equally glad we didn't succumb to temptation. Would be all manky and full of cobwebs now.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,139
    edited June 10

    I'll start this with the opinion that fighting in 1939 and not coming to an arrangement with Nazi Germany in 1940 was the morally correct thing to do - even before we found out about the full horror of the Holocaust. But there can be a clear argument that Hitler had no intention of fighting the British - his ambitions were constrained by his continentalist view of the world. Arguably one of the reasons that Germany lost was that Hitler never appreciated Britains position of dominance in Naval terms, both in military and merchant. As a result Britain and its allies could close off the continent in terms of imports, and hence the only source of Oil was Romania (outside of the fantasy of seizing the Caucasian oil fields and somehow transporting said oil to the Reich. In food terms too, Germans were on rationing early in the war and even with an entire continent could not get enough food, even including the infamous Hunger Plan to murder millions in the East by starvation.

    If the UK had not fought in 1939 then Hitler would still have lost to the USSR - it may have taken longer, but the unresolved question about Barbarossa always remained - how to you defeat a nation so vast and with the ability to ship its factories and workers thousands of miles to the East? Germany was set up for short wars, which works when you victim runs out of space to retreat into (Poland, France etc). It didn't in Russia. Its not even clear that capturing Moscow would have ended the war - why surrender when you enemy isn't offering handshakes and you losing a bit of territory, but is instead intent on your utter annihilation? IN 1941 in the Ukraine and the Baltic States the Germans were welcomed as liberators. A counterfactual has the Germans playing this role and forming independent states as allies, but of course that was never going to work because the Nazis were a racist state looking for land and resources, not new buffer countries.

    If the UK has stayed out no huge bill to the USA. Better able to fight Japan, assuming Japan had still attacked. Imperial decline would still have happened, but probably slower.

    So you can make a case for staying neutral, as many wanted to do, and indeed for suing for peace in 1940, which very nearly happened. Its not made to say it, even if morally we did the right thing.

    The almost certain result would have been either a Soviet or Nazi-controlled Europe for a long time, I would say, and an isolated and embattled Britain gradually submitting to the inevitable Nazi or Stalinist influence and pressure over a period of decades.

    Churchill may have been an extremely flawed hero of the hour, but he was also right that it was our finest hour.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,871
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    It was usually dogfish of some description huss mainly
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    edited June 10
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    I thought it was dogfish a type of small shark?

    Edit: From wiki - Rock salmon is consumed in many European countries. However, the spiny dogfish is now an endangered species due to overfishing and is classed as Vulnerable
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052

    I'll start this with the opinion that fighting in 1939 and not coming to an arrangement with Nazi Germany in 1940 was the morally correct thing to do - even before we found out about the full horror of the Holocaust. But there can be a clear argument that Hitler had no intention of fighting the British - his ambitions were constrained by his continentalist view of the world. Arguably one of the reasons that Germany lost was that Hitler never appreciated Britains position of dominance in Naval terms, both in military and merchant. As a result Britain and its allies could close off the continent in terms of imports, and hence the only source of Oil was Romania (outside of the fantasy of seizing the Caucasian oil fields and somehow transporting said oil to the Reich. In food terms too, Germans were on rationing early in the war and even with an entire continent could not get enough food, even including the infamous Hunger Plan to murder millions in the East by starvation.

    If the UK had not fought in 1939 then Hitler would still have lost to the USSR - it may have taken longer, but the unresolved question about Barbarossa always remained - how to you defeat a nation so vast and with the ability to ship its factories and workers thousands of miles to the East? Germany was set up for short wars, which works when you victim runs out of space to retreat into (Poland, France etc). It didn't in Russia. Its not even clear that capturing Moscow would have ended the war - why surrender when you enemy isn't offering handshakes and you losing a bit of territory, but is instead intent on your utter annihilation? IN 1941 in the Ukraine and the Baltic States the Germans were welcomed as liberators. A counterfactual has the Germans playing this role and forming independent states as allies, but of course that was never going to work because the Nazis were a racist state looking for land and resources, not new buffer countries.

    If the UK has stayed out no huge bill to the USA. Better able to fight Japan, assuming Japan had still attacked. Imperial decline would still have happened, but probably slower.

    So you can make a case for staying neutral, as many wanted to do, and indeed for suing for peace in 1940, which very nearly happened. Its not made to say it, even if morally we did the right thing.

    You could even argue that we should have enabled and supported the Nazis.

    Again, let’s take as read that you and I agree we did the morally correct thing in reality, and aren’t actually arguing for a different approach, but playing the game:

    By the late 30s it was clear that communism and fascism were two cheeks of the same arse, and were really just totalitarian and anti-democratic. But from a pure national interest perspective, one can argue that enabling and supporting the Germans to beat the Russians would have been the better choice. Break up and crush the Soviets, let Hitler have an Eastern European empire, and then let him struggle to control and contain it, while you rearm and eventually take him out. It’s possible that approach would have retained the Empire longer too.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Not sure what you mean by g.o.a.t but this was in fact goat indeed my local butcher sells goat
    It’s an acronym sports folks use for “greatest of all time”
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056
    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Not sure what you mean by g.o.a.t but this was in fact goat indeed my local butcher sells goat
    It’s an American acronym for Greatest Of All Time. E.g., Muhammad Ali was the GOAT.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Redfield no show at 5. First non Bank Holiday Monday they've missed by my reckoning, just when we want data!
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,208

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Wetherspoon. I sometimes eat pizza there, partly because I'm looking something vaguely edible in there and their pizzas are fine. Also because including the drink they are approximately half the price of Pizza Express for broadly the equivalent experience.
  • The_WoodpeckerThe_Woodpecker Posts: 457

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    I thought it was dogfish a type of small shark?
    Correct. It looks nothing like a dog. No wonder it rebranded itself.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,990
    @SaulStaniforth

    @NaomiAKlein: "When the right makes an alliance of convenience with the far right, that's when fascism rises"

    https://x.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1800168310778270072

    @TimesRadio

    Former chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng tells @Afneil the Conservatives face an "existential crisis" after Nigel Farage's return to lead Reform.

    He adds if Reform do poll “anywhere near 17 per cent”, the argument to do a deal “becomes much stronger”.

    @hanskundnani

    The idea that “the centre held” only really works if you ignore, or don’t care about, the way that the centre right has taken on much of the far right’s agenda, especially on identity, immigration and Islam.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    It’s not just Gateshead, though, is it? You also object to concepts like Salford, Stockport, Wolverhampton, Rotherham, Coventry – and indeed to any reference to historical counties. You are wedded to city regions a la the Redcliffe Maud report of 1969, and will brook no alternative, leaving no room for history or whimsy or romance.
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
    I’m just always slightly taken aback by the vehemence with which you express this particular view!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011
    @Farooq Here is my misguided effort:

    General Election Competition
    In how many seats will:
    1. Reform beat Conservative (don't count draws)? 0
    2. Labour finish 3rd or lower (don't count where they didn't stand)? 87
    3. Conservatives lose their deposit? 0
    4. Lib Dems lose their deposit? 20
    5. Reform lose their deposit? 303
    6. Labour lose their deposit? 0

    How big:
    7. Will the largest winning vote margin be? 33001
    8. Will the biggest notional majority defeated be (only count where the incumbent party stands)? 25001

    How small:
    9. Will the smallest winning vote margin be (1st - 2nd)? 55
    10. Will the smallest gap between 1st and 3rd be? 4321
    11. Will the lowest number of votes for any candidate? 12

    How many:
    12. Parties will be elected (whether or not they take their seats. All true independents are grouped as a single party)? 11
    13. Seats will the Conservatives win? 123
    14. Seats will Labour win? 399
    15. Seats will Lib Dems win? 33
    16. Seats will the SNP win? 26
    17. Seats will Sinn Fein win? 6
    18. Seats will DUP win? 6
    19. Seats will Reform come second in? 6

    What percentage vote:
    20. Will Conservatives get across the UK? 24.123%
    21. Will Reform get across the UK? 6.123%
    22. Will SNP get in Scotland? 30.123%
    23. Will be lowest of any winning candidate? 30.123%
    24. Will be highest of any 2nd place candidate? 45.123%
    25. Will Speaker get? 88.123%
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    edited June 10
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    It’s not just Gateshead, though, is it? You also object to concepts like Salford, Stockport, Wolverhampton, Rotherham, Coventry – and indeed to any reference to historical counties. You are wedded to city regions a la the Redcliffe Maud report of 1969, and will brook no alternative, leaving no room for history or whimsy or romance.
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
    I’m just always slightly taken aback by the vehemence with which you express this particular view!
    I don't think I've ever even mentioned Rotherham or Coventry, and have no strong view therein. Coventry strikes me as a separate entity.

    Salford is part and parcel of Manchester.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Pagan2 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Not sure what you mean by g.o.a.t but this was in fact goat indeed my local butcher sells goat
    It’s an American acronym for Greatest Of All Time. E.g., Muhammad Ali was the GOAT.
    Only in 3rd millennium, since the advent of txting as mass phenomena.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,652
    Sean_F said:

    In Irish local elections (source RTE & Wiki) with just over 90% of local council seats decided, here is how parties & independents are perrming in % of total seats elected compared with 2019 locals AND with 2020 Dail:

    Fine Gael = 26.3% > +0.6% vs 2019 > +4.4% vs 2020
    Fianna Fail = 24.5% > -4.5% vs 2019 > +0.9% vs 2020
    Sinn Fein = 10.6% > +2.1% vs 2019 > -12.1% vs 2020
    Labour = 6.1% > +0.1% vs 2019 > +2.4% vs 2020
    Social Dems = 4.0% > +2.0% vs 2019 > +0.3% vs 2020
    Green = 2.4% > -2.7% vs 2019 > +5.1% vs 2020
    PBP-Sol = 1.4% > +0.2% vs 2019 > -1.7% vs 2020
    AOINTU = 0.9% > +0.6% vs 2019 > +0.3% vs 2020
    other = 3.8% > +2.8% vs 2019 > +3.2% vs 2020
    inds = 19.7% > +0.2% vs 2019 > 0.8% vs 2020

    Note that percents & changes are based on SEATS elected NOT first-preference votes.

    So you can see why Irish politicos & journos are saying that SF had a bad election, for despite fact that they have MORE local council seats than in 2019 (even with counts still ongoing) but a -12% DROP in percentage of seats won compared to 2020 Dail election.

    Yes, and whether you have a good or bad election is a case of expectation, minus performance.

    A year ago, Sinn Fein were close to outpolling Fine Gael and Fianna Fail combined. A Sinn Fein government in Dublin would be concerning, not just for this country, but for Western governments generally, in terms of the security implications.

    Although the situation is clouded by the vote for independents, AONTU, Social Democrats, and PBP, who hurt SF disproportionately, there must be a real risk of their now losing votes and seats, in the next Dail election.

    I wonder if this will be replicated North of the Border, and if SDLP and Alliance will gain at their expense.
    Are the Western security implications of having Ireland run by MI5 assets?
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,631
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Losing battle.

    Americans reporting about cricket
    119-113 💀💀


  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    pigeon said:

    Re: restaurants (FPT, can't quote, too fiddly on a primitive phone):

    "Middle class" chains: I find Pizza Express very reliable, Nando's variable and overrated.

    Pub food: is pot luck, but certainly not uniformly bad. Two examples that I frequent semi-regularly spring to mind, one good, one very good.

    As big a factor in the quality of mid-range restaurants as that of the food itself is that of the service, especially how bloody slow some of them are. They fail to employ enough people to wait tables and/or make the stuff in the first place, so even if it's very good it takes so long to arrive that it ruins the experience. I've given up on one local restaurant entirely because of this; I recently went into another, sat at table for an age and then walked out again when it became obvious that the one woman they had taking orders was going to take about two hours just to get to us. Hopeless.

    I much prefer Pizza Express to Nandos but the kids love Nandos for some unfathomable reason. I could quite happily eat every meal at Pizza Express for the rest of my life.
    I would genuinely prefer to go to Pizza Hut than Pizza Express, though as you are in London there are loads of independent pizza places that are superior to both all over the place, but if in provincial England and not fortunate to have that option it would be Pizza Hut every time.
    Really? I would put Pizza Hut in the same category as Dominos. We are lucky to have several independent pizza places nearby. But I actually rate Pizza Express pizzas. I worked in a pizza restaurant for four years when I was younger and would sometimes have pizza for lunch and dinner depending on the shift. Luckily I love pizza.
    I think the pizzas at Pizza Express are the worst pizzas I have ever eaten.
    You've obviously never been subjected to Dominos
    No, I would rate Dominos marginally above Pizza Hut, both of them >>> Pizza Express.
    That's insane.

    Dominos is horrendous junk and Pizza Express is far better.

    I can't decide between Hut and Express. Hut at least has nice salad.
    I don't like Pizza Express pizzas as their bases are just too fucking thin, it is like eating pizza toppings on air.
    That's a feature, not a bug. You can eat a larger pizza and get more topping, rather than eating the equivalent of a loaf of bread just to get a 7-inch.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    rcs1000 said:

    Pagan2 said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    I am disappointed you forgot my contempt for the lib dems
    Fails the irrational test, I'm afraid.
    OGH might have had something to say about that, Young Robert!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Baaaaaaaaah!
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    edited June 10
    Congrats to ElectionMaps for updating their nowcast to include the latest candidate news, for example by excluding RefUK in a seat like Epping Forest where they're not standing. Some of the other nowcasters haven't done this yet.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Epping Forest forecast:

    Con 46.0%, Lab 36.4%, LD 7.9% Green 7.5%.

    I think they had it much closer before when they were including RefUK.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,052
    Andy_JS said:

    Congrats to ElectionMaps for updating their nowcast to include the latest candidate news, for example by excluding RefUK in a seat like Epping Forest where they're not standing. Some of the other nowcasters haven't done this yet.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Epping Forest forecast:

    Con 46.0%, Lab 36.4%, LD 7.9% Green 7.5%.

    Skim reading the thread, I thought that was a national poll!
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,901
    Sunday’s blue on blue leak on Douglass Ross forced his resignation as leader and “I will quit Holyrood if I am elected to Westminster”. Spectacular.

    Entirely possible that Ross won’t be a Tory candidate when we eventually get to the election Local Tories do not want Ross and are very very angry. I expect further actions in Operation Samson before we are done.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,258
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    Dogfish - it’s a small shark
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056

    @Farooq Here is my misguided effort:

    General Election Competition
    In how many seats will:
    1. Reform beat Conservative (don't count draws)? 0

    Remember Reform are standing but the Conservatives are not in Rotherham, so that’s 1 seat where they’re guaranteed to do better. I presume we’re counting that…?

    I also presume that the TUV beating the NI Conservatives in NI doesn’t count…?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    I had a pizza in Cuba which was literally an undercooked round wad of dough liberally daubed with splats of rancid lard

    That was it. They didn’t even add decaying communist tomato paste

    One of the very worst things I have ever eaten

    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it and he said “it tastes like pickled foreskins” and I declined his offer to try it.so I will never know if it matched the Cuban lard pizza
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,139
    edited June 10
    Interesting. The first direct Tory attack on Reform, as they're now accusing it of "Nazi apologism" over the "deal with Hitler" incident.

    I suspect Sunak has finally had it after Farage's comments about him not understanding "our culture", combined with this particular topic also potentially being a big help in turning the tables after Farage's D-Day jibes, so it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Losing battle.

    Americans reporting about cricket
    119-113 💀💀


    To be fair to them it was a runs win rather than a wickets win, but the headline does rather shout ‘basketball score’.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Andy_JS said:

    Congrats to ElectionMaps for updating their nowcast to include the latest candidate news, for example by excluding RefUK in a seat like Epping Forest where they're not standing. Some of the other nowcasters haven't done this yet.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Epping Forest forecast:

    Con 46.0%, Lab 36.4%, LD 7.9% Green 7.5%.

    I think they had it much closer before when they were including RefUK.

    One of the few seats I would be glad to see the Tory win; the candidate Neil Hudson is my former MP (Penrith and Border) who got bounced from the new seat (Penrith and Solway) by Jenkinson of Workington, who will lose. Hudson was the only vet in the commons, voted against the government on cutting overseas aid and is OK.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Interesting. The first direct Tory attack on Reform, as they're now accusing it of "Nazi apologism" over the "deal with Hitler" incident.

    I suspect Sunak has finally had it after Farage's comments about him also not understanding "our culture", si it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

    Sunak went after Farages comments in his mea culpa redux this morning, It's certainly something he will try and get on the front foot over
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860

    @Farooq Here is my misguided effort:

    General Election Competition
    In how many seats will:
    1. Reform beat Conservative (don't count draws)? 0

    Remember Reform are standing but the Conservatives are not in Rotherham, so that’s 1 seat where they’re guaranteed to do better. I presume we’re counting that…?

    I also presume that the TUV beating the NI Conservatives in NI doesn’t count…?
    Pretty sure the Brexit party managed a couple of second places to Labour in 2019 as well (Barnsley?).
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Given how ridiculously low the scores have been at New York so far, I think the priority is to explain to them how to prepare a decent cricket wicket.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,557
    ElectionMaps are forecasting this in Rotherham.

    Lab 55.9%
    Ref 32.3%
    LD 5.3%
    Grn 5.3%

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    Andy_JS said:

    Congrats to ElectionMaps for updating their nowcast to include the latest candidate news, for example by excluding RefUK in a seat like Epping Forest where they're not standing. Some of the other nowcasters haven't done this yet.

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    Epping Forest forecast:

    Con 46.0%, Lab 36.4%, LD 7.9% Green 7.5%.

    I think they had it much closer before when they were including RefUK.

    Yes Neil Hudson should be safe in Epping Forest constituency now Reform aren't standing. They are standing in Brentwood and Ongar and Harlow, the other seats in Epping Forest District however and that means Labour could take Harlow even though the Tory and Reform vote is bigger than the Labour vote
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822
    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Would you like to find out what percentage of voters think the Conservative have had a good effect on UK politics or would it safer to close your eyes for that one?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,405
    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Probably, but you would expect them to pick up a handful of seats now compared to the zero they started with
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585
    edited June 10

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Given how ridiculously low the scores have been at New York so far, I think the priority is to explain to them how to prepare a decent cricket wicket.
    They don’t care. The whole venue is temporary and coming down next month, and the organisers have made little effort to sell the competition to Americans who aren’t the SE-Asia or Carribean expat diaspora.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,497
    Leon said:

    I had a pizza in Cuba which was literally an undercooked round wad of dough liberally daubed with splats of rancid lard

    That was it. They didn’t even add decaying communist tomato paste

    One of the very worst things I have ever eaten

    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it and he said “it tastes like pickled foreskins” and I declined his offer to try it.so I will never know if it matched the Cuban lard pizza

    Possibly left over from these, I Samuel 18.25:

    And Saul said, Thus shall ye say to David, The king desireth not any dowry, but an hundred foreskins of the Philistines, to be avenged of the king's enemies.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,219
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Given how ridiculously low the scores have been at New York so far, I think the priority is to explain to them how to prepare a decent cricket wicket.
    They don’t care. The whole venue is temporary and coming down next month.
    OK, that's Sunak's government- what about the cricket?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    You're triggering me again with that nonsense.

    Gateshead is a separate town to the city of Newcastle.

    It is in a different county. (Pre-1974 boundaries, natch.)

    It has a football club that actually wins trophies. And isn't owned by evil bastards.

    The Heed ain't the Toon.

    And I thought only Aussies used the term CBD?
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    It’s not just Gateshead, though, is it? You also object to concepts like Salford, Stockport, Wolverhampton, Rotherham, Coventry – and indeed to any reference to historical counties. You are wedded to city regions a la the Redcliffe Maud report of 1969, and will brook no alternative, leaving no room for history or whimsy or romance.
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
    I’m just always slightly taken aback by the vehemence with which you express this particular view!
    I don't think I've ever even mentioned Rotherham or Coventry, and have no strong view therein. Coventry strikes me as a separate entity.

    Salford is part and parcel of Manchester.
    Fair enough, and I don't wish to misrepresent you. I thought you had Greater Birminghammed Coventry and Greater Sheffielded Rotherham in the past.
    I'd say Salford is an edge case. It even has the same postcode, though with interesting historical reasons (before postcodes were given single or double letters, Manchester and Salford were separate post towns but with a common postcode system - so Manchester 1, Manchester 2, Salford 3, Manchester 4, Salford 5 and so on...)
    But I'm happy to disagree. I'm just always slightly taken aback by the apparent fury with which you hold such a technical opinion.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    edited June 10
    Italy EU Results:

    FdI 28.8 (+2.8 from GE, +1.9 above polling)
    PD 24.1 (+5.0, +3.0)
    M5S 10.0 (-5.5, -5.5)
    FI 9.6 (+1.5, +1.1)
    Lega 9.0 (+0.2, +0.1)
    AVS 6.7 (+3.1, +2.3)
    SUE 3.8 , Az 3.3 (-3.5, -1.2)
    others 4.7 (-3.7, -1.9)

    Polling has been pretty static in the last 2 years, with poll averages not changing more v than 2-3% for any party, and just a little realignment between the liberal centrists, now presented as SUE and Azione.

    This gives a slight bump to some, Meloni's
    FdI hitting the top of their MoE range, but centre-left PD hitting their off-on M5S allies and getting the best overperformance of the night.

    However, little rebalance between the main left and right blocs getting 40.7% (if united) and 47.5% respectively.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,585

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Given how ridiculously low the scores have been at New York so far, I think the priority is to explain to them how to prepare a decent cricket wicket.
    They don’t care. The whole venue is temporary and coming down next month.
    OK, that's Sunak's government- what about the cricket?
    One seat’s enough!
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,822

    Interesting. The first direct Tory attack on Reform, as they're now accusing it of "Nazi apologism" over the "deal with Hitler" incident.

    I suspect Sunak has finally had it after Farage's comments about him also not understanding "our culture", si it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

    Sunak went after Farages comments in his mea culpa redux this morning, It's certainly something he will try and get on the front foot over
    Something like Refuk shouldnt use racist dog whistles or the Conservatives might sue for breach of copyright?
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078

    Interesting. The first direct Tory attack on Reform, as they're now accusing it of "Nazi apologism" over the "deal with Hitler" incident.

    I suspect Sunak has finally had it after Farage's comments about him also not understanding "our culture", si it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

    Sunak went after Farages comments in his mea culpa redux this morning, It's certainly something he will try and get on the front foot over
    Despite the media love fest, Farage is toxic waste, and Braverman a total fool for cuddling up to the (not very) closet racists and fruitcakes. Sunak should go all out. Personally I think the Reform UK Ltd bubble has inflated to bursting anyway and I stand by my prediction that they will poll a lower percentage than UKIP did. Under such circumstances, I think the Tories will be burned but not destroyed. The only caveat is that these rumours about a donor strike are false.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Agreed
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    Leon said:

    I had a pizza in Cuba which was literally an undercooked round wad of dough liberally daubed with splats of rancid lard

    That was it. They didn’t even add decaying communist tomato paste

    One of the very worst things I have ever eaten

    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it and he said “it tastes like pickled foreskins” and I declined his offer to try it.so I will never know if it matched the Cuban lard pizza

    When not in Rome, Rodney, when not in Rome...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Interesting. The first direct Tory attack on Reform, as they're now accusing it of "Nazi apologism" over the "deal with Hitler" incident.

    I suspect Sunak has finally had it after Farage's comments about him also not understanding "our culture", si it'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

    Sunak went after Farages comments in his mea culpa redux this morning, It's certainly something he will try and get on the front foot over
    Something like Refuk shouldnt use racist dog whistles or the Conservatives might sue for breach of copyright?
    How it goes down is for the voters to decide, I'm merely suggesting what he will do to try and get back on the front foot
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,523
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Anabob and cash?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,011

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    Dogfish - it’s a small shark
    You mean it is a hand-held vacuum cleaner?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    kinabalu said:

    pigeon said:

    Re: restaurants (FPT, can't quote, too fiddly on a primitive phone):

    "Middle class" chains: I find Pizza Express very reliable, Nando's variable and overrated.

    Pub food: is pot luck, but certainly not uniformly bad. Two examples that I frequent semi-regularly spring to mind, one good, one very good.

    As big a factor in the quality of mid-range restaurants as that of the food itself is that of the service, especially how bloody slow some of them are. They fail to employ enough people to wait tables and/or make the stuff in the first place, so even if it's very good it takes so long to arrive that it ruins the experience. I've given up on one local restaurant entirely because of this; I recently went into another, sat at table for an age and then walked out again when it became obvious that the one woman they had taking orders was going to take about two hours just to get to us. Hopeless.

    I much prefer Pizza Express to Nandos but the kids love Nandos for some unfathomable reason. I could quite happily eat every meal at Pizza Express for the rest of my life.
    I would genuinely prefer to go to Pizza Hut than Pizza Express, though as you are in London there are loads of independent pizza places that are superior to both all over the place, but if in provincial England and not fortunate to have that option it would be Pizza Hut every time.
    Really? I would put Pizza Hut in the same category as Dominos. We are lucky to have several independent pizza places nearby. But I actually rate Pizza Express pizzas. I worked in a pizza restaurant for four years when I was younger and would sometimes have pizza for lunch and dinner depending on the shift. Luckily I love pizza.
    I think the pizzas at Pizza Express are the worst pizzas I have ever eaten.
    You've obviously never been subjected to Dominos
    No, I would rate Dominos marginally above Pizza Hut, both of them >>> Pizza Express.
    That's insane.

    Dominos is horrendous junk and Pizza Express is far better.

    I can't decide between Hut and Express. Hut at least has nice salad.
    I don't like Pizza Express pizzas as their bases are just too fucking thin, it is like eating pizza toppings on air.
    I like a thin base on a pizza, so long as it isn't too 'biscuity'.
    Yes big thick doughy bases are crap and fake crap at that.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084
    edited June 10
    Leon said:


    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it

    Guinea pig?

    I have in fact eaten guinea pig, although not in Peru where it’s a delicacy (cuy).
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056
    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    I saw the headline 'I suspect this is sub-optimal for the Tories and Sunak' and genuinely had no idea which of countless things it might be.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,288
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    It’s not just Gateshead, though, is it? You also object to concepts like Salford, Stockport, Wolverhampton, Rotherham, Coventry – and indeed to any reference to historical counties. You are wedded to city regions a la the Redcliffe Maud report of 1969, and will brook no alternative, leaving no room for history or whimsy or romance.
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
    I’m just always slightly taken aback by the vehemence with which you express this particular view!
    I don't think I've ever even mentioned Rotherham or Coventry, and have no strong view therein. Coventry strikes me as a separate entity.

    Salford is part and parcel of Manchester.
    Fair enough, and I don't wish to misrepresent you. I thought you had Greater Birminghammed Coventry and Greater Sheffielded Rotherham in the past.
    I'd say Salford is an edge case. It even has the same postcode, though with interesting historical reasons (before postcodes were given single or double letters, Manchester and Salford were separate post towns but with a common postcode system - so Manchester 1, Manchester 2, Salford 3, Manchester 4, Salford 5 and so on...)
    But I'm happy to disagree. I'm just always slightly taken aback by the apparent fury with which you hold such a technical opinion.
    Anabob is PB's angels dancing on the head of a pin specialist. Fairly mild mannered on the big stuff, but the more technical the opinion the more vehemence with which he holds it.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086

    WTF? I though PB was a bastion of fine dining? You're all arguing over what is the best UPF fast food restaurant! You'll be fighting over which is the nicest transnational "food" corporation next.
    I'm shocked.

    Indeed it is a sad day on here when PBers – PBers! – are extolling the virtues of Dominos and Pizza Hut. Next up: NPXMP on the joys of a microwaved ready meal from Tescos.
    All much improved from what they used to be. Recommended.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,370

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    You're triggering me again with that nonsense.

    Gateshead is a separate town to the city of Newcastle.

    It is in a different county. (Pre-1974 boundaries, natch.)

    It has a football club that actually wins trophies. And isn't owned by evil bastards.

    The Heed ain't the Toon.

    And I thought only Aussies used the term CBD?
    Common Business Districts are areas where the local businesses invest money in improving the district, either by extr maintenance, events, marketing...

    The quayside is 1 such zone although the only things on the Gateshead side is the Baltic, Sage / Glasshouse and from my last visit there a month ago a mobile coffeeshop and a pop-up Harrods Beauty...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Jump on that sinking ship Nige, go on
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    kle4 said:

    I saw the headline 'I suspect this is sub-optimal for the Tories and Sunak' and genuinely had no idea which of countless things it might be.

    Labour have called a general election apparently.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,320
    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    Must be Haddock
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    I though "c****" would hgave been high in that word cloud. "T***" lets him off too lightly.

    On Farage, I don't know what others think but watching his performance in that tv debate it seemed a bit tired and flat. And I say this as someone who whilst disliking him has always seen his appeal.
    He's 60. That's not massively over-the-hill (Starmer is 61), but he's also not looked after himself that well. And even if the Reform plan goes well, he's five years from entering government. Have to say, I just don't see it working.
    Me neither. It just feels not quite right.

    "Nigel, Donald here, so when are you coming over, my man? Next week, right? Got you the best suite, it's all ready for you, know what I mean."

    "Afraid I can't. I have stuff on in Clacton."
    My guess is that Trump himself urged Farage to do his U-turn re: running for MP. As part of Putinist ramp up the dystopia efforts, and also to enhance NF's value as a warm-up act for post-Independence Day MAGA rallies.

    Though not sure Trump needs to warm up his crowds even more than they are being "warmed" due to record-breaking heat waves in USA.
    How are you seeing November ... a coin toss?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Wilson and Paisley will win easily anyway, it is South Antrim, being targeted by the UUP, East Belfast, being targeted by the Alliance and Upper Bann, being targeted by SF where the DUP could really use a Farage endorsement
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Yes, and maybe it will dawn on them that they shot themselves in the foot chasing a right-wing populist agenda that only a small minority want.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,135
    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    He is already spoken for with Cash. You can't have multiple entries.
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,241

    Leon said:

    I had a pizza in Cuba which was literally an undercooked round wad of dough liberally daubed with splats of rancid lard

    That was it. They didn’t even add decaying communist tomato paste

    One of the very worst things I have ever eaten

    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it and he said “it tastes like pickled foreskins” and I declined his offer to try it.so I will never know if it matched the Cuban lard pizza

    When not in Rome, Rodney, when not in Rome...
    In this case, when not in Naples. One of the worst pizze I ever ate was in Ravenna
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Perhaps NF does NOT want to alienate potential RC voters in GB?
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056
    HYUFD said:

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Wilson and Paisley will win easily anyway, it is South Antrim, being targeted by the UUP, East Belfast, being targeted by the Alliance and Upper Bann, being targeted by SF where the DUP could really use a Farage endorsement
    The TUV isn’t standing in Upper Bann and I doubt the DUP need worry, but agreed otherwise.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,921
    edited June 10

    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Yes, and maybe it will dawn on them that they shot themselves in the foot chasing a right-wing populist agenda that only a small minority want.
    46% voted for that in 2019 though ie for Boris and the Brexit Party
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,377

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Absolutely astonished to discover that Farage can't be trusted.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,056

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Perhaps NF does NOT want to alienate potential RC voters in GB?
    I don’t think Catholics are much keener on the DUP versus the TUV!
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    It’s not just Gateshead, though, is it? You also object to concepts like Salford, Stockport, Wolverhampton, Rotherham, Coventry – and indeed to any reference to historical counties. You are wedded to city regions a la the Redcliffe Maud report of 1969, and will brook no alternative, leaving no room for history or whimsy or romance.
    Which is a perfectly legitimate position to take.
    I’m just always slightly taken aback by the vehemence with which you express this particular view!
    I don't think I've ever even mentioned Rotherham or Coventry, and have no strong view therein. Coventry strikes me as a separate entity.

    Salford is part and parcel of Manchester.
    Fair enough, and I don't wish to misrepresent you. I thought you had Greater Birminghammed Coventry and Greater Sheffielded Rotherham in the past.
    I'd say Salford is an edge case. It even has the same postcode, though with interesting historical reasons (before postcodes were given single or double letters, Manchester and Salford were separate post towns but with a common postcode system - so Manchester 1, Manchester 2, Salford 3, Manchester 4, Salford 5 and so on...)
    But I'm happy to disagree. I'm just always slightly taken aback by the apparent fury with which you hold such a technical opinion.
    I'm passionate about cities and parochial garbage like that posted by @SandyRentool above holds our major cities back. Greater Manchester and Greater London have benefited massively from having a metropolitan identity.
  • WhisperingOracleWhisperingOracle Posts: 9,139
    edited June 10
    It looks as though as the Tories have some sort of plan to regain the initiative on the patriotism and armed forces card, as Johnny Mercer seems to be the one licensed to put the boot in over "Nazi apologism."

    Better late than never, I suppose, but I wonder what the effect on the Reform surge will be, and, more to the point : where is that refield and wilton poll ?
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Yes, and maybe it will dawn on them that they shot themselves in the foot chasing a right-wing populist agenda that only a small minority want.
    46% voted for that in 2019 though ie for Boris and the Brexit Party
    Some of those - *cough* me *cough* - were mostly voting against Corbyn.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663

    Leon said:

    I had a pizza in Cuba which was literally an undercooked round wad of dough liberally daubed with splats of rancid lard

    That was it. They didn’t even add decaying communist tomato paste

    One of the very worst things I have ever eaten

    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it and he said “it tastes like pickled foreskins” and I declined his offer to try it.so I will never know if it matched the Cuban lard pizza

    When not in Rome, Rodney, when not in Rome...
    In this case, when not in Naples. One of the worst pizze I ever ate was in Ravenna
    You can't beat deep-fried, frozen factory 'pizza' from a Hastings chippie imo.

    (Edit: sorry, autocorrect seems to have changed 'eat' to 'beat')
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Anabob and cash?
    I beat you to it dozens of posts ago!!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    It is taking me much longer to get through the LD manifesto than I expected. Pretty dense.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,485
    eek said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    Some do! You are referring to Gateshead I think – which not only does not have "an identity distinct from its larger neighbour" is in fact part and parcel of a single city with its larger neighbour, it being about 70 seconds walk across the river, and part of a shared CBD.
    You're triggering me again with that nonsense.

    Gateshead is a separate town to the city of Newcastle.

    It is in a different county. (Pre-1974 boundaries, natch.)

    It has a football club that actually wins trophies. And isn't owned by evil bastards.

    The Heed ain't the Toon.

    And I thought only Aussies used the term CBD?
    Common Business Districts are areas where the local businesses invest money in improving the district, either by extr maintenance, events, marketing...

    The quayside is 1 such zone although the only things on the Gateshead side is the Baltic, Sage / Glasshouse and from my last visit there a month ago a mobile coffeeshop and a pop-up Harrods Beauty...
    CBD = Central Business District.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    rcs1000 said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    The fact less than half of 2019 Conservatives and even fewer current Tory voters think Farage has had a good effect on UK politics though probably suggests we have reached peak Reform voteshare now

    Yes, and maybe it will dawn on them that they shot themselves in the foot chasing a right-wing populist agenda that only a small minority want.
    46% voted for that in 2019 though ie for Boris and the Brexit Party
    Some of those - *cough* me *cough* - were mostly voting against Corbyn.
    And another big chunk were casting a 'just STFU about Brexit' vote.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,153

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Pagan2 said:

    It seems like of Farage wants to ape Trump he needs to read out Pizza Express menu.

    There's a lot of potential in talking about restaurants. He could segue into the Catherine Tate sketch: "They've put goat in a curry..."
    There used to be a jamaican take away near me and the goat curry was to die for
    Was the goat truly the g.o.a.t?
    Was it Tom Brady, or Lewis Hamilton?
    Sir Donald Bradman is the GOAT!
    Okay, I’ll volunteer you to explain cricket to the Americans!
    Losing battle.

    Americans reporting about cricket
    119-113 💀💀


    I had a Pakastani Uber driver in NYC on Friday who was very excited about the game :smile:
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662
    Andy_JS said:

    ElectionMaps are forecasting this in Rotherham.

    Lab 55.9%
    Ref 32.3%
    LD 5.3%
    Grn 5.3%

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    UK Polling Report thinks Corbyn will het less than 1% in Islington North

    If only they did Betting Exchanges
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Reform UK makes electoral pact with TUV. Candidates were even going to be listed as “TUV/Reform UK”, but the Electoral Office wouldn’t allow it.

    Farage comes along and just tears up the agreement because he wants to endorse a couple of DUP MPs: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c988p1xz2qdo

    Perhaps NF does NOT want to alienate potential RC voters in GB?
    I don’t think Catholics are much keener on the DUP versus the TUV!
    Yeah, just occurred to me. Duh! Or rather, Du(p)h!
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,662

    Andy_JS said:

    ElectionMaps are forecasting this in Rotherham.

    Lab 55.9%
    Ref 32.3%
    LD 5.3%
    Grn 5.3%

    https://electionmaps.uk/nowcast

    UK Polling Report thinks Corbyn will het less than 1% in Islington North

    If only they did Betting Exchanges
    https://pollingreport.uk/seats/E14001305?model=uniform
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    Heathener said:

    Leon said:


    That said tho a pizza a friend had in Iquitos Peru possibly matches it - there was undefined rubbery meat on it

    Guinea pig?

    I have in fact eaten guinea pig, although not in Peru where it’s a delicacy (cuy).
    No. I’ve had guinea pig several times in Peru. It’s alright

    There’s a famous painting of the last supper in Cusco cathedral which shows Christ eating guinea pig. And why not. Europeans have often depicted Christ as a blonde handsome Teutoni/Celt with blue eyes
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,748

    kle4 said:

    I saw the headline 'I suspect this is sub-optimal for the Tories and Sunak' and genuinely had no idea which of countless things it might be.

    Labour have called a general election apparently.
    Without giving any warning to the Tories - the underhand bastards!
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2024 Part 1 (no, nobody asked for this)
    • For a fair deal – I’ve seen worse slogans, but it does feel like one for a supermarket.
    • Clear Print/Plain text/ easy read versions available
    • No hyperlinking of chapters – loss of points right there.
    • Pictures of Leader – A mere 2
    • Simple presentation, pictures on different pages to text
    Foreword
    • County needs change. People taken for granted. Families ‘and pensioners’ struggling.
    • NHS in crisis, sewage in rivers.
    • Time for change, LDs the answer.
    • Neef to transform politics, fix health and care, economy, end sewage scandal
    • LDs local champions. Fair deal means people can afford a home (note – yeah right, with what building?), comfortable retirement, good school, healthcare.
    Our Fair Deal
    • Invest in renewable power and home insultation, bring down energy bills.
    • Right to see a GP within 7 days, extra doctors (note – how?).
    • Restore community policing, every burglar investigated – funded through ‘fair taxes’.
    • Hold big companies to account, ban companies dumping sewage into rivers
    • Skills training for net zero
    • Comprehensive agreement with Europe (note – meaning what?)
    • Reverse cuts to army and international development
    • PR for MPs and cllrs, cap donations for parties
    • Shift power to local areas (note – all parties always say this)
    The Economy
    • Support small business (note – who doesn’t?)
    • Tories botched Brexit and abandoned climate commitments
    • Will cut energy bills, invest in green infrastructure, fix relationship with Europe, manage finances ‘responsibly’, go after tax avoidance (note – again, everyone says this), taxes will be on big banks and windfalls on oil and gas
    • Northern Powerhouse, Western Gateway, Midlands Engine
    • Work with devolved administrations
    • Gigabit for all
    • OBR for all fiscal events
    • Raise tax free personal alliance
    • Increase digital services tax, close loopholes for capital gains, 4% tax on share buyback of FTSE 100 companies
    • National financial inclusion strategy (note – not clear what this means, but talks about banking hubs, remote areas for accessing cash, sharia compliant student finance)
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,794
    kinabalu said:

    Cookie said:

    rcs1000 said:

    PB's most over the top hatreds:

    @bigjohnowls and Starmer
    @Luckyguy1983 and Sunak
    @LostPassword and Pizza Express

    What about @Anabobazina and towns having their own identity distinct from their larger neighbour?
    He is already spoken for with Cash. You can't have multiple entries.
    You can if you're mutiply irrationally furious. But I find Anabobz's fixation on the recommendations of the Redcliffe Maud report more quixotic than his fixation on cash.

    Should point out that I do like him and also agree with him on far more than I disagree. I don't want this to sound like a pile-on.
  • JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,662
    Good to see the Conservatives get up and start taking the fight to Farage. They’ve been pandering to him for far too long.

    Is this the moment that the Conservative Party started its long path back?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Liberal Democrat Manifesto 2024 Part 2
    Business and Jobs
    • Private enterprise principal engine for growth. Smart regulation and stable.
    • Growth is minimal, u turns hurt business. LDs will be world leaders in AI and clean technologies.
    • Will develop industrial strategy to incentivize new technology and tackle climate crisis
    • Bring down trade barriers, invest in education and training, boost productivity (note – how?)
    • General duty of care for the environment and human rights (note – sounds like fluff)
    • ‘Aim’ for 3% if GDP investing in research and dev (note – what is it now? Without knowing is this a good target or not)
    • Encourage businesses to invest in training and become more energy efficient
    • ‘Innovation’ to power scale-ip companies
    • AI regulation
    • Parliament to be consulted on mandates for trade deals
    • Support whisky industry
    • Cur resource waste and pollution by transition to circular economy (note – more fluff)
    • Public benefit company model for monopoly utility companies
    • Promote employee ownership
    • Extent public interest test for big companies
    • Invest in skills – replace apprenticeship levy with skills and training levy (note – what?)
    • Expand vocational training
    • Fix work visa system
    • Worker protection enforcement agency
    • Genuine living wage (note – which would be what amount?)
    • Expand parental leave and pay. Increase statutory sick pay.
    Climate and Energy
    • Existential threat. Sky-high bills. Tories not on track.
    • LDs commit to cut emissions to net zero by 2045 at the latest (note – by not promising earlier, this is clearly as early as they think it is possible).
    • 10 year upgrade programme, free insultation and heat pimps for low incomes, all new homes zero carbon
    • Rooftop solar incentives, 90% of electricity from renewables by 2030
    • Chief Secretary for Sustainability in the Treasury (Note – create a new job is like creating a new department, a gimmick)
    • National and local citizen assemblies (note - I still don’t know why this is better than councils, if you do not trust councils say so)
    • Yet another reference to a new Industrial strategy
    • Nature based solutions
    • Create Joint climate council
    • Invest in education and training for low carbon future.
    • Cut energy bills and emissions, end fuel poverty
    • Accelerate deployment of renewable ban – remove restrictions on solar and wind (note – does this mean overruling nimbys about windfarms and solar farms?)
    • Invest in energy storage, sell power to local customers, local energy grids, community benefit funds
    • Restore International Development 0.7% spending,
    • General duty for the environment (note – meaning what?)
    • Support businesses to cut emissions.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,663
    malcolmg said:

    algarkirk said:

    Pagan2 said:

    algarkirk said:

    Controversial opinion: I don’t really understand why people pay so much for pizza as a foodstuff, and why chains have grown up around it.

    There are plenty of chain pizza restaurants where one can happily pay over the odds compared to a cheap and cheerful high street Italian restaurant, and get a product either comparable or possibly worse.

    I don’t get it.

    Yes, It's variations on cheese on toast really, and while it's OK it hardly justifies a million dedicated outlets. Not as if it's even fish and chips.

    In my utopian restaurant - where you turn up and eat the one thing you are given - pizza would never be the thing, but fish and chips would be it about every third Friday.
    On the subject of fish and chips.....what happened to rock salmon you can never find it these days
    IIRC there is now an interdict on calling whatever it is 'rock salmon' because it was something else. Huss? Monkfish? Dogfood? Perhaps they put flakes of it on pizzas next to the pineapple. Proper fish and chip shops alternate between offering haddock or cod, and cod or haddock.
    Must be Haddock
    Pollocks!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,277
    That’s it. I’ve done Kyiv in 2 days flat

    Back to sunny sweet bomby Odessa
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,175
    kle4 said:


    No hyperlinking of chapters – loss of points right there.
    That's accessibility guidance for you. The theory is, a screen reader can take the user to the relevant point but it can't take them back.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,086
    Jonathan said:

    Good to see the Conservatives get up and start taking the fight to Farage. They’ve been pandering to him for far too long.

    Is this the moment that the Conservative Party started its long path back?

    No. It's a moment they think they have a brief opening despite most of their base supporting Farage over Rishi most of the time.
This discussion has been closed.