19 The primary crime that we have alleged is New York 20 State Election Law Section 17-152. There is conspiracy 21 language in the statute. In that statute it reads: 22 "Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or 23 prevent the election of any person to a public office by 24 unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or 25 more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a 26 misdemeanor."
So the falsification of business records would be regarded as a misdemeanour unless except that it was also with "the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof". The crime is the one above, NY State Election Law Section 17-152. This is why the prosecution was at pains to demonstrate that the payoff was for the purposes of promoting the election of Trump rather than merely for family reasons or to avoid embarrassment.
So, my opinion has not changed. Trump's guilty. He's a criminal.
The key words are "by unlawful means." But I am just repeating myself so I will shut up.
Significant news about Aaron Bell. He’s a loss to Parliament. I thought he faced extraordinarily challenging circumstances and conducted himself with integrity. I hope he knows that’s a rare thing and appreciated. Perhaps having left parliament he will have more freedom to achieve his political ambitions.
Indeed, Aaron was a decent MP and good contributor on here.
He was though only an MP for five minutes having been first elected only at the last GE in 2019. I do wish more MPs would at least have the courage to face electors again on their record even if the polls turn strongly against their party (that goes for Labour MPs who stood down pre 2010 too). If he lost at least he could have told himself he gave it his best shot and he gave his constituents the chance to re elect him
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Which U turn is it Alan, is she "in / out" or "out / in"
lol
fuck knows malc. Allegedly shes now allowed to stand for the election.But irs Starmer, if the wind changes direction he'll point somewhere else
I have principles and if you don't like, well I have others.
My guess is that now she has been allowed to stand she will choose not to on the grounds of health. Which is how it should have been dealt with in the first place.
According to Political Currency (though I confess I was only half listening at the time), that seems to be how it had initially gone down, that Abbott would have the whip restored on the understanding that she wasn't standing again. Since then it's blown up and become this huge issue.
I generally quite like Starmer and think he's done a very skillful job at manoeuvring the Labour Party into a place of electability, but I think this situation was handled badly. Ed Balls seemed to think someone, somewhere, went off at half-cock and that's what's caused the mess.
19 The primary crime that we have alleged is New York 20 State Election Law Section 17-152. There is conspiracy 21 language in the statute. In that statute it reads: 22 "Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or 23 prevent the election of any person to a public office by 24 unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or 25 more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a 26 misdemeanor."
So the falsification of business records would be regarded as a misdemeanour unless except that it was also with "the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof". The crime is the one above, NY State Election Law Section 17-152. This is why the prosecution was at pains to demonstrate that the payoff was for the purposes of promoting the election of Trump rather than merely for family reasons or to avoid embarrassment.
So, my opinion has not changed. Trump's guilty. He's a criminal.
Translating it into UK terms, it's as if Keir Starmer secretly employed a voice coach and made them sign an NDA, and people called it a criminal conspiracy to influence the election.
???? What ????
How about in UK terms you incur an election expense and put it through your company books rather than declare it on your election expenses return. If you do and you get caught you go to prison.
I speak as someone who was a prosecution witness in an election spending case.
It sounds like we need to find out whether Keir Starmer has had voice coaching and failed to declare it as an election expense.
Which U turn is it Alan, is she "in / out" or "out / in"
lol
fuck knows malc. Allegedly shes now allowed to stand for the election.But irs Starmer, if the wind changes direction he'll point somewhere else
I have principles and if you don't like, well I have others.
My guess is that now she has been allowed to stand she will choose not to on the grounds of health. Which is how it should have been dealt with in the first place.
Maybe, but whichever way you look at it its shooting himself in the foot.
Whilst that is true Alan IRL only obsessives like us will even have noticed.
It’s probably the best decision in the circumstances. However it’s not necessarily the correct decision, particularly for Diane herself as she appears to have lost several steps in recent years.
Perhaps now she's wrung this concession out of him, she'll be happy to retire on the basis that it would be her decision, and not Starmer's, for her to do so.
Turd polishing.
Er, no. Just musing.
Why do the boring partisans on here have to assume that everyone else is taking a boring partisan position?
So you think this has been well managed ?
Just to be controversial I am going to give all 3 leaders the benefit of the doubt on their recent shenanigans:
Ed Davey playing the clown - Gets the desperately needed attention of the media Rishi Sunak coming out with bonkers policies - Got all the media attention and starved the Labour party of it Keir Starmer's Diane Abbott fiasco - Makes him look tough on the left and a middle of the road, you can vote for me, guy
It won’t change much but it shows a lack of basic competence
Alternatively, Abbott will say something bonkers and get suspended again. Or endorse Corbyn. Something like that.
By not allowing her to run, Starmer looks like the bad guy. Allowing her to run and potentially make a fool of herself is a shot to nothing that just might work...
It's quite cynical, if you believe the rumours that her health isn't what it used to be.
Trump is a crook. He has crookedly conducted his business throughout his career, misusing law suits and committing frauds such as his so called University. He is extremely fortunate not to have been prosecuted before.
Is it legitimate to use the fact that he is a crook to persuade people who might otherwise be tempted not to vote for him? Absolutely.
Is it legitimate to try and extend the law beyond what is recognised just to get him for the greater good? Err...no. That is not the greater good, that is, in the long term, more damaging than Trump himself.
Oh come on. You guys are losing your minds. What does the bit on bold even mean?
You just need to get to the the catharsis of BONG, 10pm , 4th July and you'll be fine.
What it means is that there are almost no instances of people being prosecuted for book keeping records before Trump. The entries reflect what happened. Tax was paid on the money. Cohen's repayment was grossed up to allow for that. It was a misdemeanour with a 2 year limitation period at best.
The logic of the prosecution was that these misdemeanours were converted into felonies because they were done for a criminal purpose.
What was that purpose? Well, that was left pretty vague and the jury were allowed to have different ideas so long as they agreed that "it" was "bad".
In Bragg's first 15 months on the job, the Manhattan DA's office filed 166 felony counts for falsifying business records against 34 defendants from all walks of life.
It won’t change much but it shows a lack of basic competence
Alternatively, Abbott will say something bonkers and get suspended again. Or endorse Corbyn. Something like that.
By not allowing her to run, Starmer looks like the bad guy. Allowing her to run and potentially make a fool of herself is a shot to nothing that just might work...
It's quite cynical, if you believe the rumours that her health isn't what it used to be.
Being a leader isn't about looking the good or bad guy. Its about making the right decision.
Yesterday they said Dianne Abbott was now a national treasure and had been treated badly, despite them previously saying she was a threat to national security.
Now they're saying SKS is weak for letting her stand as an MP.
He is weak - but I am not sure their line is the one I would have taken.
They remain the party of Boris which believes in both the having and eating of cake.
Which, in fairness, is one of the few remaining things I can agree with them on!
Which U turn is it Alan, is she "in / out" or "out / in"
lol
fuck knows malc. Allegedly shes now allowed to stand for the election.But irs Starmer, if the wind changes direction he'll point somewhere else
I have principles and if you don't like, well I have others.
My guess is that now she has been allowed to stand she will choose not to on the grounds of health. Which is how it should have been dealt with in the first place.
Maybe, but whichever way you look at it its shooting himself in the foot.
Whilst that is true Alan IRL only obsessives like us will even have noticed.
Normally I'd agree with that, but the Abbott story had a bit more traction than the others because she's well known. It's a mistake but it wont cost him the election. It may however make things more difficult when in government.
It’s probably the best decision in the circumstances. However it’s not necessarily the correct decision, particularly for Diane herself as she appears to have lost several steps in recent years.
Perhaps now she's wrung this concession out of him, she'll be happy to retire on the basis that it would be her decision, and not Starmer's, for her to do so.
Turd polishing.
Er, no. Just musing.
Why do the boring partisans on here have to assume that everyone else is taking a boring partisan position?
So you think this has been well managed ?
I did not say that, or imply it.
Generally speaking, I try to avoid simply repeating what other people say, and so since plenty of other people had said that I didn't feel it necessary to simply parrot it, and the absence of doing so shouldn't be taken as evidence of taking the contrary position. Instead I was trying to think of what else might follow.
I think it was yesterday, or the day before, that someone said that this episode was one event that showed Starmer had poor people management skills, and I think it's one of the leadership qualities that it's most obvious he is lacking.
Why would you assume that I thought it had been well-managed? I've plenty criticised Starmer in the past. If I'd been a notably vocal poster in support of Starmer then perhaps making the assumption would be warranted, but as it is it was just annoying.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Yesterday they said Dianne Abbott was now a national treasure and had been treated badly, despite them previously saying she was a threat to national security.
Now they're saying SKS is weak for letting her stand as an MP.
He is weak - but I am not sure their line is the one I would have taken.
They remain the party of Boris which believes in both the having and eating of cake.
Which, in fairness, is one of the few remaining things I can agree with them on!
As far as I can make out...
Dianne Abbott said to one journalist she wasn't allowed to stand and then the press ran with that despite Labour not ever saying that. Just that no decisions had been taken.
So presumably SKS sat on it, had a think and now has decided which way to jump.
He should have just said, "thank you for your service Dianne but you won't be allowed to stand again."
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
19 The primary crime that we have alleged is New York 20 State Election Law Section 17-152. There is conspiracy 21 language in the statute. In that statute it reads: 22 "Any two or more persons who conspire to promote or 23 prevent the election of any person to a public office by 24 unlawful means and which conspiracy is acted upon by one or 25 more of the parties thereto, shall be guilty of a 26 misdemeanor."
So the falsification of business records would be regarded as a misdemeanour unless except that it was also with "the intent to commit another crime or to aid or conceal the commission thereof". The crime is the one above, NY State Election Law Section 17-152. This is why the prosecution was at pains to demonstrate that the payoff was for the purposes of promoting the election of Trump rather than merely for family reasons or to avoid embarrassment.
So, my opinion has not changed. Trump's guilty. He's a criminal.
Translating it into UK terms, it's as if Keir Starmer secretly employed a voice coach and made them sign an NDA, and people called it a criminal conspiracy to influence the election.
???? What ????
How about in UK terms you incur an election expense and put it through your company books rather than declare it on your election expenses return. If you do and you get caught you go to prison.
I speak as someone who was a prosecution witness in an election spending case.
It sounds like we need to find out whether Keir Starmer has had voice coaching and failed to declare it as an election expense.
Now you are on to something. But it has to be after the date that the election spending reporting starts (which coincidentally is Today) and as leader it would almost certainly come under the national, not local, limit, so I don't think it is anything anyone is going to bother with unless he is getting it from King Charles and he is charging King rates.
It would be more accurate (though still not true) to say that there are "almost no instances" of people being prosecuted for the particular first offence gun crime Hunter Biden has been charged with.
After days of saying it's a decision for the NEC, Keir Starmer says this afternoon Diane Abbott is "free to stand" for Labour
He tells pool: "Diane Abbott was elected in 1987, the first black woman MP. She's been a trail blazer, she's carved a path for other people to come into politics. The whip has been restored to her, and she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate... it's formally a matter for the NEC, I've not expressed a view up until now, she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate."
Which U turn is it Alan, is she "in / out" or "out / in"
lol
fuck knows malc. Allegedly shes now allowed to stand for the election.But irs Starmer, if the wind changes direction he'll point somewhere else
I have principles and if you don't like, well I have others.
My guess is that now she has been allowed to stand she will choose not to on the grounds of health. Which is how it should have been dealt with in the first place.
Maybe, but whichever way you look at it its shooting himself in the foot.
Whilst that is true Alan IRL only obsessives like us will even have noticed.
Normally I'd agree with that, but the Abbott story had a bit more traction than the others because she's well known. It's a mistake but it wont cost him the election. It may however make things more difficult when in government.
Those obsessives will definitely include his MPs and various pressure groups, yes.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Think of the steps!
I'm being silly but it's worth keeping an eye on - it's something the Republicans use in the US to restrict turnout. Polling places only accessible by car.
Difficult to solve in places like the Highlands but that should be a rare exception.
A sane Republican comments - and gets a load of abuse for it.
Regardless of the result, I urge all Americans to respect the verdict and the legal process. At this dangerously divided moment in our history, all leaders—regardless of party—must not pour fuel on the fire with more toxic partisanship. We must reaffirm what has made this nation great: the rule of law. https://x.com/GovLarryHogan/status/1796283536565014873
Trump is a crook. He has crookedly conducted his business throughout his career, misusing law suits and committing frauds such as his so called University. He is extremely fortunate not to have been prosecuted before.
Is it legitimate to use the fact that he is a crook to persuade people who might otherwise be tempted not to vote for him? Absolutely.
Is it legitimate to try and extend the law beyond what is recognised just to get him for the greater good? Err...no. That is not the greater good, that is, in the long term, more damaging than Trump himself.
Oh come on. You guys are losing your minds. What does the bit on bold even mean?
You just need to get to the the catharsis of BONG, 10pm , 4th July and you'll be fine.
What it means is that there are almost no instances of people being prosecuted for book keeping records before Trump. The entries reflect what happened. Tax was paid on the money. Cohen's repayment was grossed up to allow for that. It was a misdemeanour with a 2 year limitation period at best.
The logic of the prosecution was that these misdemeanours were converted into felonies because they were done for a criminal purpose.
What was that purpose? Well, that was left pretty vague and the jury were allowed to have different ideas so long as they agreed that "it" was "bad".
In Bragg's first 15 months on the job, the Manhattan DA's office filed 166 felony counts for falsifying business records against 34 defendants from all walks of life.
My reading has indicated that all or very nearly all, of these related to tax evasion. Which is not alleged here. Was the production of MAGA hats an attempt to influence the election? Yep. Was it illegal? No, very poor taste and more than somewhat fantastical, but no.
It won’t change much but it shows a lack of basic competence
Alternatively, Abbott will say something bonkers and get suspended again. Or endorse Corbyn. Something like that.
By not allowing her to run, Starmer looks like the bad guy. Allowing her to run and potentially make a fool of herself is a shot to nothing that just might work...
It's quite cynical, if you believe the rumours that her health isn't what it used to be.
Being a leader isn't about looking the good or bad guy. Its about making the right decision.
Sadly from recent footage I don't believe Diane Abbott is either mentally sharp or physically fit enough to stand as an MP any more.
But how do you dispatch someone who was once a formidable opponent, who retains an enormous amount of grassroots support?
It might not be good leadership - but it is good politics. Letting your opponents make fools of themselves is often the right play. Arguably, it's been Starmer's modus operandi from day 1, both in dealing with the Conservatives and his own internal opposition.
Tice and Farage have apparently had a bit of a tiff. Oh dear
From the Telegraph:
"Richard Tice has slapped down Nigel Farage over his hint at a possible election pact with the Tories.
"Mr Tice, the Reform UK leader, said there were “no deals” to be done with the Conservatives after Mr Farage suggested he could be willing to come to an agreement.
"Mr Farage, the honorary president of Reform UK, said he would be open to “a conversation” with the Conservatives if they give him “something back” for the “huge favours” he has done over the years.
"In an interview with The Sun’s Never Mind the Ballots show, Mr Farage said: “I’ve done them some huge favours over the years as a party. Give me something back. We might have a conversation.”"
If Farage wants to run ReformUK then he should run ReformUK, which he's stepped away from and refused to step back into the role. And as long as he is neither an election candidate nor active party leader I daresay the media might want to spend less time interviewing him and more interviewing Reform's candidates and active leader.
If I were Tice I'd be spitting feathers at the way Farage is treating him, though I can't say I'd be surprised by it.
Election debate featuring all seven main parties announced
One extreme to the other. You won't get any light from a 7 way debate. Realistically 3-4 is the max where you might actually be able to gain some insight.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Think of the steps!
I'm being silly but it's worth keeping an eye on - it's something the Republicans use in the US to restrict turnout. Polling places only accessible by car.
Difficult to solve in places like the Highlands but that should be a rare exception.
There were some suggestions before GE2010 that the cost of holding elections could be cut by reducing the number of polling stations, and I think it's an idea that is often returned to, but I think it would be a pretty bad idea.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Think of the steps!
I'm being silly but it's worth keeping an eye on - it's something the Republicans use in the US to restrict turnout. Polling places only accessible by car.
Difficult to solve in places like the Highlands but that should be a rare exception.
A fairly simple equation should sort that: for the catchment area of any particular polling place, a fixed proportion of the electorate should be within a given distance and those that aren't either catered to with additional polling places or offered a guaranteed postal vote. Then you can apply the same standard everywhere.
It won’t change much but it shows a lack of basic competence
Alternatively, Abbott will say something bonkers and get suspended again. Or endorse Corbyn. Something like that.
By not allowing her to run, Starmer looks like the bad guy. Allowing her to run and potentially make a fool of herself is a shot to nothing that just might work...
It's quite cynical, if you believe the rumours that her health isn't what it used to be.
Being a leader isn't about looking the good or bad guy. Its about making the right decision.
Sadly from recent footage I don't believe Diane Abbott is either mentally sharp or physically fit enough to stand as an MP any more.
But how do you dispatch someone who was once a formidable opponent, who retains an enormous amount of grassroots support?
It might not be good leadership - but it is good politics. Letting your opponents make fools of themselves is often the right play. Arguably, it's been Starmer's modus operandi from day 1, both in dealing with the Conservatives and his own internal opposition.
The problem is if she does a Red Ken it blows up in his face (nobody believe NEC is making totally independent decisions if the leader makes their position clear). Good leadership would have got ahead of this months ago and promised we clear you, you go quietly, we say very nice things about you, we will give you a place in the HoL.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
Definitely not where I'm from. But this would be a great project for someone with some GIS skills - what proportion of the UK population is more than 1 mile from their polling place?
I was a 1.3 mile walk across town. In Edinburgh, 0.3 miles.
Think of the steps!
I'm being silly but it's worth keeping an eye on - it's something the Republicans use in the US to restrict turnout. Polling places only accessible by car.
Difficult to solve in places like the Highlands but that should be a rare exception.
Election debate featuring all seven main parties announced
One extreme to the other. You won't get any light from a 7 way debate. Realistically 3-4 is the max where you might actually be able to gain some insight.
If I was Starmer I think I would be otherwise engaged. Can't see what he can hope to get out of that.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
Okay, so, obviously there will be some areas where polling stations are more distant (though I think a couple of miles is not really that far).
One way to benchmark it would be to compare to the shortest distance to the nearest store selling milk. If you're in a remote area where you have to travel 5 miles to pick up a pint of milk, then you can't complain too much about being asked to travel that far to vote.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
Trump is a crook. He has crookedly conducted his business throughout his career, misusing law suits and committing frauds such as his so called University. He is extremely fortunate not to have been prosecuted before.
Is it legitimate to use the fact that he is a crook to persuade people who might otherwise be tempted not to vote for him? Absolutely.
Is it legitimate to try and extend the law beyond what is recognised just to get him for the greater good? Err...no. That is not the greater good, that is, in the long term, more damaging than Trump himself.
Oh come on. You guys are losing your minds. What does the bit on bold even mean?
You just need to get to the the catharsis of BONG, 10pm , 4th July and you'll be fine.
What it means is that there are almost no instances of people being prosecuted for book keeping records before Trump. The entries reflect what happened. Tax was paid on the money. Cohen's repayment was grossed up to allow for that. It was a misdemeanour with a 2 year limitation period at best.
The logic of the prosecution was that these misdemeanours were converted into felonies because they were done for a criminal purpose.
What was that purpose? Well, that was left pretty vague and the jury were allowed to have different ideas so long as they agreed that "it" was "bad".
In Bragg's first 15 months on the job, the Manhattan DA's office filed 166 felony counts for falsifying business records against 34 defendants from all walks of life.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
Wow, labour has a 23 point lead in the politico poll of polls. That is insane. If this holds the tories will get wiped out.
According to electoral calculus that would give 507 labour seats and 66 tory seats and 42 lib dems.... WOW! That would be an earth shattering result if it held.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
Okay, so, obviously there will be some areas where polling stations are more distant (though I think a couple of miles is not really that far).
One way to benchmark it would be to compare to the shortest distance to the nearest store selling milk. If you're in a remote area where you have to travel 5 miles to pick up a pint of milk, then you can't complain too much about being asked to travel that far to vote.
Depends if you have your own cow.
If you own a cow then do you get your own polling station? I guess to be completely parallel there would have to be some sort of extra do it yourself element to the voting process as well.
I think I might actually be in the best hotel room in the country. Admittedly an extremely poor country of 2m people with virtually zero tourism but still
*adopts the fast show voice*
“Then they put me in the best hotel room in the country, which is nice”
Election debate featuring all seven main parties announced
One extreme to the other. You won't get any light from a 7 way debate. Realistically 3-4 is the max where you might actually be able to gain some insight.
Legal minefield. Once you’re at six do you invite Galloway? Salmond?
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Indeed it is. If you're in reasonable shape. And can spare an hour or so without the responsibility of young children. Some of the outlying farms were much further away.
May I wish Aaron Bell/Tissue Price all the best in his new career. Despite our politics being different, he always came across as a decent person, very different from the likes of Braverman, Rees-Mogg etc.
May I wish Aaron Bell/Tissue Price all the best in his new career. Despite our politics being different, he always came across as a decent person, very different from the likes of Braverman, Rees-Mogg etc.
Yes - a lot of respect for him speaking out against Johnson at a time when it was not easy to do so.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Tell that to the motoring lobby.
But a large number of people with mobility issues depend on lifts from friends, family and neighbours to vote. It must suppress turnout significantly in some low density towns/villages.
And as MattW has reprimanded me previously, car ownership is still surprisingly low in rural areas (I assumed that was an urban phenomenon).
May I wish Aaron Bell/Tissue Price all the best in his new career. Despite our politics being different, he always came across as a decent person, very different from the likes of Braverman, Rees-Mogg etc.
Me too. Maybe we'll see tissueprice back posting? Hope so.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
Okay, so, obviously there will be some areas where polling stations are more distant (though I think a couple of miles is not really that far).
One way to benchmark it would be to compare to the shortest distance to the nearest store selling milk. If you're in a remote area where you have to travel 5 miles to pick up a pint of milk, then you can't complain too much about being asked to travel that far to vote.
I like that metric - I once lived in a very remote part of the Somerset Levels (only for a year but did vote in that time). It was just over a mile to the polling station in the nearest village but barring setting up a polling station just for about eight electors (two houses and a farm) it had to be that far away. To compare it was 2.5 miles to the next village for the nearest shop and 2.8 miles to the nearest bus stop (except for a 1 service per week service)
I think I might actually be in the best hotel room in the country. Admittedly an extremely poor country of 2m people with virtually zero tourism but still
*adopts the fast show voice*
“Then they put me in the best hotel room in the country, which is nice”
May I wish Aaron Bell/Tissue Price all the best in his new career. Despite our politics being different, he always came across as a decent person, very different from the likes of Braverman, Rees-Mogg etc.
Me too. Maybe we'll see tissueprice back posting? Hope so.
I enjoyed watching him on Only Connect. I didn't see him on the other game shows he did, but I'm sure he was equally entertaining.
'@TheRoyalistsUK The Lord Mayor’s Common Cryer, Major Peter Oweh, read aloud the Royal Proclamation dissolving Parliament and declaring the calling of another at the Royal Exchange this morning.
Yesterday they said Dianne Abbott was now a national treasure and had been treated badly, despite them previously saying she was a threat to national security.
Now they're saying SKS is weak for letting her stand as an MP.
He is weak - but I am not sure their line is the one I would have taken.
They remain the party of Boris which believes in both the having and eating of cake.
Which, in fairness, is one of the few remaining things I can agree with them on!
As far as I can make out...
Dianne Abbott said to one journalist she wasn't allowed to stand and then the press ran with that despite Labour not ever saying that. Just that no decisions had been taken.
So presumably SKS sat on it, had a think and now has decided which way to jump.
He should have just said, "thank you for your service Dianne but you won't be allowed to stand again."
No, this story blew up because of off the record briefings from Labour HQ to the Times, which has a couple of reporters (Patrick Maguire and Gabriel Poglund) with very good contacts on the right of the party. Abbott was going to stand down, it had all been choreographed and then some little boy briefers decided to blow it out of the water because they did not like what had been decided. This is a problem the leadership created by giving certain people too much, unsupervised back office power. Starmer has to take responsibility. Hopefully, it is a lesson learned.
I think I might actually be in the best hotel room in the country. Admittedly an extremely poor country of 2m people with virtually zero tourism but still
*adopts the fast show voice*
“Then they put me in the best hotel room in the country, which is nice”
Int' Moldova brilliant?
This week i ave mainly been drinkin negra de purcari
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Indeed. But it's also 'can I really be arsed?' distance, particularly if it's raining. You could understand people not getting around to voting. I remember being pissed, first time I voted in Cardiff, to find the nearest polling station (within about 5 minutes) was not my polling station and having to go down to the correct one another 15 minutes away. Had it not been a seat in play, I might not have bothered. Had I not had flexible hours, I might not have had time before work (I'd likely still have voted after work, I guess).
Of course, postal votes exist, as do proxies. And do the parties still offer to drive people to polling stations to vote?
Former Labour MP Lloyd Russell-Moyle tells #PoliticsLive he’s been made a “sacrificial lamb” after being suspended from the party following a complaint about his behaviour
Although I think he’s a total bell end, he does make some good points in the interview.
Yes. LRM shows that he's perfectly capable of not being bonkers. He interviews well, and is sensible and rational in that clip. He has, actually, grown up quite a lot in the last few years - I've encountered a fair bit of him so I've seen the change.
I think people really underestimate the extent to which LRM has grown up. When he was first elected, he was little better than a new born baby, sending shit in each and every direction. Now, a few years in, he has all the maturity of a toddler.
@malcolmg There's this YouTube about how the Scots version of Wikipedia was hijacked and faked. I think you might know more about the real Scots language than me: care to have a look?
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Indeed. But it's also 'can I really be arsed?' distance, particularly if it's raining. You could understand people not getting around to voting. I remember being pissed, first time I voted in Cardiff, to find the nearest polling station (within about 5 minutes) was not my polling station and having to go down to the correct one another 15 minutes away. Had it not been a seat in play, I might not have bothered. Had I not had flexible hours, I might not have had time before work (I'd likely still have voted after work, I guess).
Of course, postal votes exist, as do proxies. And do the parties still offer to drive people to polling stations to vote?
If you ask the Tories nicely, they will do your voting for you, and all. (Well, not yet: but certainly aiming to do that for expats.)
The video of the knife attack in Germany is quite shocking. The police try to arrest someone who was tackling the assailant which helped the assailant get free and then stab the policeman in the back of the neck. Then the person who was trying to help ended up being handcuffed.
@malcolmg There's this YouTube about how the Scots version of Wikipedia was hijacked and faked. I think you might know more about the real Scots language than me: care to have a look?
Yesterday they said Dianne Abbott was now a national treasure and had been treated badly, despite them previously saying she was a threat to national security.
Now they're saying SKS is weak for letting her stand as an MP.
He is weak - but I am not sure their line is the one I would have taken.
They remain the party of Boris which believes in both the having and eating of cake.
Which, in fairness, is one of the few remaining things I can agree with them on!
As far as I can make out...
Dianne Abbott said to one journalist she wasn't allowed to stand and then the press ran with that despite Labour not ever saying that. Just that no decisions had been taken.
So presumably SKS sat on it, had a think and now has decided which way to jump.
He should have just said, "thank you for your service Dianne but you won't be allowed to stand again."
No, this story blew up because of off the record briefings from Labour HQ to the Times, which has a couple of reporters (Patrick Maguire and Gabriel Poglund) with very good contacts on the right of the party. Abbott was going to stand down, it had all been choreographed and then some little boy briefers decided to blow it out of the water because they did not like what had been decided. This is a problem the leadership created by giving certain people too much, unsupervised back office power. Starmer has to take responsibility. Hopefully, it is a lesson learned.
Somebody wasn't content with Abbott standing down. They wanted to humiliate her.
If Starmer wanted to take responsibility, he'd sack the briefers.
If Diane wants to keep her seat, I hope she tells Keir "they have that right" Starmer to fuck off and runs as an independent socialist against genocide and wins.
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Three miles in total, to get there and back - so almost 5km, and would be a challenge for many. We should certainly do better than that, at least in urban areas.
New York magazine (not known for its Trump sympathies) comes out on the side of @DavidL
“The charges against Trump are obscure, and almost entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor — in New York, or Wyoming, or anywhere — has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything. None. Ever.”
If New York magazine is right then New York might just have done the stupidest thing in American history
The video of the knife attack in Germany is quite shocking. The police try to arrest someone who was tackling the assailant which helped the assailant get free and then stab the policeman in the back of the neck. Then the person who was trying to help ended up being handcuffed.
This is one area where I have sympathy with the police. I witnessed a huge bar fight in Poland and it looked just like that - limbs and fists flying everywhere. In the US everyone in that video would be dead.
PB Tories on cracking form over the last few days:
1. Although Abbott is a left-wing lunatic, we all love her and she's a national treasure and Starmer is a heartless bastard for not letting her stand.
2. Weak, weak, weak of Starmer to let that left-wing lunatic racist Abbott stand.
They were all playing PB Tory hoopla at the equestrian club and have suffered a peculiar incident of mass getting hit over the head with horseshoes. There are conflicting reports regarding whose aim is dangerously off.
After days of saying it's a decision for the NEC, Keir Starmer says this afternoon Diane Abbott is "free to stand" for Labour
He tells pool: "Diane Abbott was elected in 1987, the first black woman MP. She's been a trail blazer, she's carved a path for other people to come into politics. The whip has been restored to her, and she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate... it's formally a matter for the NEC, I've not expressed a view up until now, she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate."
Are we actually discussing the relative merits of getting 60 seats rather than 10?
If the Tories fall below 150 seats it is catastrophic for them. End of.
No it’s not. It’s very very bad. Its a 1997 style knockout when they went down to 158 seats
“Catastrophic” is what the present polls are indicating: something unprecedented. Under 100 seats
Catastrophic would actually be less than 50 seats and fall behind Reform on voteshare and the LDs on seats.
If the Tories remain main opposition to Labour on votes and seats even if only polling 50-150 seats, while such a landslide defeat would be very bad it would not be as terminal as would catastrophic
My hypothesis is that the basis for a lot of Trump support is a 'gut feeling' that the current situation is existentially bad and that Trump would be a slightly less worse disaster. That point of view makes a lot of sense to me.
So, people think electing a lying, corrupt, felon with the morals of an ally cat who tried to overturn a legitimate election result would be a great idea?
It's a view I suppose but I have zero tolerance for Trump appeasers. If Trump wins his subsequent actions will be on the heads of people who think like that.
Whatever faults Biden may have Trump deserves unequivocal condemnation not mealy-mouthed "justifications"
It looks increasingly unlikely that the Tories will be able to squeeze the Reform vote.
I don't know if the Reform vote exists, however. In actual elections, it has not come close to the sorts of votes that UKIP was achieving, despite similar poll ratings.
Bill Kristol @BillKristol · 11m "I'm encouraged by the over-the-top hysteria we’re seeing from MAGA world. It suggests worry, even panic. And in any case, there’s nothing like the squealing of stuck pigs (along with your first cup of coffee) to cheer you up in the morning."
I would pass a law restricting candidates to public transport during the election campaign.
If you can't get around your constituency by bus, how can a sizeable minority get to their polling station?
Aren't there enough polling stations that they're all within reasonable walking distance?
My previous address it was a mile and a half. No public transport.
A mile and a half is walking distance.
Three miles in total, to get there and back - so almost 5km, and would be a challenge for many. We should certainly do better than that, at least in urban areas.
Depending on the weather, too. No joke in winter darkness.
After days of saying it's a decision for the NEC, Keir Starmer says this afternoon Diane Abbott is "free to stand" for Labour
He tells pool: "Diane Abbott was elected in 1987, the first black woman MP. She's been a trail blazer, she's carved a path for other people to come into politics. The whip has been restored to her, and she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate... it's formally a matter for the NEC, I've not expressed a view up until now, she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate."
What was the point then? Just say you think she's a trailblazer but she can't stand again. Baffling.
This is bizarre. Diane Abbott is a card carrying racist. Labour are a party that tolerates racism if they allow her to stand.
Labour can't afford any more slip ups like this. Owen Jones is already putting it around that Sir Keir is little more than a Labour Boris Johnson (presumably without the entertaining bits). If that notion starts to take hold it could be deadly.
Are we actually discussing the relative merits of getting 60 seats rather than 10?
If the Tories fall below 150 seats it is catastrophic for them. End of.
No it’s not. It’s very very bad. Its a 1997 style knockout when they went down to 158 seats
“Catastrophic” is what the present polls are indicating: something unprecedented. Under 100 seats
Catastrophic would actually be less than 50 seats and fall behind Reform on voteshare and the LDs on seats.
If the Tories remain main opposition to Labour on votes and seats even if only polling 50-150 seats, while such a landslide defeat would be very bad it would not be as terminal as would catastrophic
Top marks for the way you've moved your own Overton Window on this one.
Much as I despise the Party, I admire the dedication to the Tory cause from you, Big_G and a few others.
Are we actually discussing the relative merits of getting 60 seats rather than 10?
If the Tories fall below 150 seats it is catastrophic for them. End of.
No it’s not. It’s very very bad. Its a 1997 style knockout when they went down to 158 seats
“Catastrophic” is what the present polls are indicating: something unprecedented. Under 100 seats
Catastrophic would actually be less than 50 seats and fall behind Reform on voteshare and the LDs on seats.
If the Tories remain main opposition to Labour on votes and seats even if only polling 50-150 seats, while such a landslide defeat would be very bad it would not be as terminal as would catastrophic
No, your first scenario deserves the word “apocalyptic”
The second scenario: 50-100 seats - is “catastrophic”
100-140 is “horrendous”. 140-165 is “very very bad”. Anything over 165 is “omg it could have been worse”
Comments
He was though only an MP for five minutes having been first elected only at the last GE in 2019. I do wish more MPs would at least have the courage to face electors again on their record even if the polls turn strongly against their party (that goes for Labour MPs who stood down pre 2010 too). If he lost at least he could have told himself he gave it his best shot and he gave his constituents the chance to re elect him
I generally quite like Starmer and think he's done a very skillful job at manoeuvring the Labour Party into a place of electability, but I think this situation was handled badly. Ed Balls seemed to think someone, somewhere, went off at half-cock and that's what's caused the mess.
Ed Davey playing the clown - Gets the desperately needed attention of the media
Rishi Sunak coming out with bonkers policies - Got all the media attention and starved the Labour party of it
Keir Starmer's Diane Abbott fiasco - Makes him look tough on the left and a middle of the road, you can vote for me, guy
Convinced? I'm not sure I am either.
By not allowing her to run, Starmer looks like the bad guy. Allowing her to run and potentially make a fool of herself is a shot to nothing that just might work...
It's quite cynical, if you believe the rumours that her health isn't what it used to be.
I haven't heard a single Republican politician explain why they think the law shouldn't apply to Donald Trump...
https://x.com/jonfavs/status/1796370294858490027
Which, in fairness, is one of the few remaining things I can agree with them on!
Generally speaking, I try to avoid simply repeating what other people say, and so since plenty of other people had said that I didn't feel it necessary to simply parrot it, and the absence of doing so shouldn't be taken as evidence of taking the contrary position. Instead I was trying to think of what else might follow.
I think it was yesterday, or the day before, that someone said that this episode was one event that showed Starmer had poor people management skills, and I think it's one of the leadership qualities that it's most obvious he is lacking.
Why would you assume that I thought it had been well-managed? I've plenty criticised Starmer in the past. If I'd been a notably vocal poster in support of Starmer then perhaps making the assumption would be warranted, but as it is it was just annoying.
Dianne Abbott said to one journalist she wasn't allowed to stand and then the press ran with that despite Labour not ever saying that. Just that no decisions had been taken.
So presumably SKS sat on it, had a think and now has decided which way to jump.
He should have just said, "thank you for your service Dianne but you won't be allowed to stand again."
Indeed it would be even more than the 62 seats the LDs won in 2010
(Actually Romanian champagne, and it’s not a branded jacuzzi, and it’s transnistria out the window, not the USSR, but still)
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c6ppv06e3n8o
He tells pool: "Diane Abbott was elected in 1987, the first black woman MP. She's been a trail blazer, she's carved a path for other people to come into politics. The whip has been restored to her, and she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate... it's formally a matter for the NEC, I've not expressed a view up until now, she is free to go forward as a Labour candidate."
He declines to say if he's spoken to her
https://x.com/NatashaC/status/1796533365824242021
What was the point then? Just say you think she's a trailblazer but she can't stand again. Baffling.
Difficult to solve in places like the Highlands but that should be a rare exception.
Regardless of the result, I urge all Americans to respect the verdict and the legal process. At this dangerously divided moment in our history, all leaders—regardless of party—must not pour fuel on the fire with more toxic partisanship. We must reaffirm what has made this nation great: the rule of law.
https://x.com/GovLarryHogan/status/1796283536565014873
But how do you dispatch someone who was once a formidable opponent, who retains an enormous amount of grassroots support?
It might not be good leadership - but it is good politics. Letting your opponents make fools of themselves is often the right play. Arguably, it's been Starmer's modus operandi from day 1, both in dealing with the Conservatives and his own internal opposition.
One extreme to the other. You won't get any light from a 7 way debate. Realistically 3-4 is the max where you might actually be able to gain some insight.
No public transport.
One way to benchmark it would be to compare to the shortest distance to the nearest store selling milk. If you're in a remote area where you have to travel 5 miles to pick up a pint of milk, then you can't complain too much about being asked to travel that far to vote.
He's normally very sharp.
The Trump case was and is a slam-dunk.
MRP in 6 hours.
If you own a cow then do you get your own polling station? I guess to be completely parallel there would have to be some sort of extra do it yourself element to the voting process as well.
*adopts the fast show voice*
“Then they put me in the best hotel room in the country, which is nice”
If you're in reasonable shape.
And can spare an hour or so without the responsibility of young children.
Some of the outlying farms were much further away.
If the Tories fall below 150 seats it is catastrophic for them. End of.
But a large number of people with mobility issues depend on lifts from friends, family and neighbours to vote. It must suppress turnout significantly in some low density towns/villages.
And as MattW has reprimanded me previously, car ownership is still surprisingly low in rural areas (I assumed that was an urban phenomenon).
Maybe we'll see tissueprice back posting?
Hope so.
Must be soon, presumably?
The Lord Mayor’s Common Cryer, Major Peter Oweh, read aloud the Royal Proclamation dissolving Parliament and declaring the calling of another at the Royal Exchange this morning.
Parliament will sit again after the General Election, which will take place on Thursday, 4 July.'
https://x.com/TheRoyalistsUK/status/1796525815875924429
Of course, postal votes exist, as do proxies. And do the parties still offer to drive people to polling stations to vote?
·
12h
I’m an American.
I love the United States.
And I will be voting for a convicted felon November 5th.
#OutlawPresident
PASS IT ON
https://x.com/SebGorka/status/1796345908290093518
“Catastrophic” is what the present polls are indicating: something unprecedented. Under 100 seats
There's this YouTube about how the Scots version of Wikipedia was hijacked and faked. I think you might know more about the real Scots language than me: care to have a look?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-8wfSpSAASQ
1. Although Abbott is a left-wing lunatic, we all love her and she's a national treasure and Starmer is a heartless bastard for not letting her stand.
2. Weak, weak, weak of Starmer to let that left-wing lunatic racist Abbott stand.
🔴 Lab 46% (-1)
🔵 Con 21% (-1)
⚪ Ref 13% (+1)
🟠 LD 8% (NC)
🟢 Green 6% (NC)
🟡 SNP 3% (NC)
https://x.com/wethinkpolling/status/1796542301105233925
🔴 Keir Starmer: 45% (+3)
🔵 Rishi Sunak: 25% (+1)
⚪ Don’t know: 31% (-2)
https://x.com/wethinkpolling/status/1796542305211441403
*He can't, actually, right? As it's a State rather than Federal conviction? Can the State Governor do it?
Though I remember seeing the hacked version of Conservapedia. The entry for East Lothian was quite something.
If Starmer wanted to take responsibility, he'd sack the briefers.
If Diane wants to keep her seat, I hope she tells Keir "they have that right" Starmer to fuck off and runs as an independent socialist against genocide and wins.
“The charges against Trump are obscure, and almost entirely unprecedented. In fact, no state prosecutor — in New York, or Wyoming, or anywhere — has ever charged federal election laws as a direct or predicate state crime, against anyone, for anything. None. Ever.”
If New York magazine is right then New York might just have done the stupidest thing in American history
Maybe we could just fast forward to July 4th and get it over with.
If the Tories remain main opposition to Labour on votes and seats even if only polling 50-150 seats, while such a landslide defeat would be very bad it would not be as terminal as would catastrophic
https://x.com/politicsjoe_uk/status/1796472822388453674?s=46&t=zBMxSRqPWpIvD8hTYJ5DTQ
https://x.com/callumcmason/status/1796529255641460922?s=61
It's a view I suppose but I have zero tolerance for Trump appeasers. If Trump wins his subsequent actions will be on the heads of people who think like that.
Whatever faults Biden may have Trump deserves unequivocal condemnation not mealy-mouthed "justifications"
Bill Kristol
@BillKristol
·
11m
"I'm encouraged by the over-the-top hysteria we’re seeing from MAGA world. It suggests worry, even panic. And in any case, there’s nothing like the squealing of stuck pigs (along with your first cup of coffee) to cheer you up in the morning."
https://x.com/BillKristol
Much as I despise the Party, I admire the dedication to the Tory cause from you, Big_G and a few others.
The second scenario: 50-100 seats - is “catastrophic”
100-140 is “horrendous”. 140-165 is “very very
bad”. Anything over 165 is “omg it could have been worse”