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Were some Tory MPs secretly lobotomised? – politicalbetting.com

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  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Farage not running
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    edited May 23

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Much more of this sort of talk from Conservative MPs and I’ll revise downwards my prediction of 160 seats, which is already pretty generous.

    Voters are sassy. They know that any party with a massive majority is bad. I doubt a majority of more than 40 over all.other parties. It might be more if Labour wipe out the SNP.
    No, I really don't see that. More likely a majority that would make Tony Blair blush.

    It's hard to come up with plausible numbers in electoral Calculus that would produce that outcome.
    Indeed. At the moment there is deep fury at the shambles of the past 5 years and I can’t see that abating. I’ve never heard of voters marking their X in a different box because they fear the outcome of a large majority. Seems like desperately clinging onto a splintered fragment of flotsam to me.
    Er...2017?
    Er, what?

    I know you like your pithy responses but sometimes (often) they don’t mean as much as you might think.

    If you are referring to fear that Theresa May was going to win a landslide I think that had bugger all to do with it compared to her disastrous electioneering. She was unmasked as awkward, out of touch, and unable to respond to journalists’ questions. Most notably at that disastrous welfare shambles.

    She dodged the tv debates and came across as robotic.

    Bugger all to do with people fearing a large majority. They thought she was crap.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40237833

    https://www.politico.eu/article/how-theresa-may-lost-it-uk-election-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-jim-messina-lynton-crosby-uk-sarah-palin-campaign/

    "Bugger all to do with people fearing a large majority. They thought she was crap."

    Yup.

    In a nutshell.
    +1 you can trace May’s change in fortune to the death tax, a sensible idea so badly announced it destroyed their lead.
    Worth noting that this issue is still unresolved decades after all the promises; and that Labour, SFAICS, plan to say nothing except platitudes on the subject before the election. They never mention it. The current situation is toxic, as is all the alternatives. Therefore expect the media, rightly, to make it an issue.

    On current polling the Tories have absolutely no downside. Labour have no upside, and one or two 'bigotgate or death tax or Labour support Hamas' style issues could cause them trouble.

    McFadden this morning had two places he specially didn't want to go: social care and Diane Abbott.
    What did he say on social care?

    They cannot even begin to fix the NHS without sorting out the utter disgrace that is social care system.
    Which requires money.

    And the only place to find it is from property taxes.

    Are Starmer and Reeves willing to take the political hit ?

    If they're going to then they need to do it straight away.
    Well, they are not going to go there before the election are they? There are two elections in their minds: 1992 and 2017. In 2017 the Tories had a disaster ('another win like that and we are finished') beginning with one single, far from insane, policy - the death tax.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Scott_xP said:

    ToryJim said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Do we know whether it's right-wing or left-wing Tory MPs who think the idea of an election on 4th July is a bad idea?

    I’m not sure either side is ecstatic, the ones throwing a wobbly will be the Mad Nad types and the continuity Trussites.
    The ones throwing a wobbly are the ones who are going to lose, so most of them...
    Nah most parliamentary politicians are relatively phlegmatic, it will be the most entitled ones who are hopping mad those who think they deserve an extra 6 months salary. A decent proportion will be resigned to what fate and FPTP has in store.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    Sky News poll of polls.

    Lab 44.0%
    Con 23.2%
    Ref 11.2%
    LD 9.6%
    Green 6.7%
    SNP 2.7%
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    How many more codenames can Rigby and Co find for Simon Clarke and Mad Nad?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Leon said:
    "Important though the general election is, the contest in the United States of America on November 5 has huge earning potential global significance"
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @gabyhinsliff

    We haven’t made as much progress on nhs waiting lists as I would have liked says Sunak, admitting to Today prog this is disappointing. He is literally making Labou’s case for them, which is that he’s campaigning on a record of failure

    Just maybe his government should have tried harder to settle the junior doctors dispute. Too late now.
    Tut, no credit where it is due, for the SNP?
    They only did it to look different from yon Westminster.
    To be fair, if true that would probably have been a pretty reliable shorthand for choosing policies over the past decade or so.
    A lesson that Labour, short of Sir Keir ripping his mask off on 5th July to reveal a slavering red in tooth and claw proggy Soc, seem to be on the brink of forgetting.
    The next Holyrood election will be a lot more interesting than PB ****** experts seem to think.
    Yep. I said a while ago that Scotland needs a bracing few years with a goodly number of SLab mps just to clarify exactly what 'change' they're bringing. If the new member for Rutherglen & Hamilton West is anything to go by it won't be pretty but will be edifying.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    Dopermean said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Do we know whether it's right-wing or left-wing Tory MPs who think the idea of an election on 4th July is a bad idea?

    I'd plump for those with a majority under 15k who haven't already found themselves a new gig
    Indeed. Having a thin CV, being of an age where it's a bit late for a career change, and sitting on an insufficient majority isn't really a left/right issue!
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    edited May 23
    Leon said:
    Reform will likely sink in the polls slightly now as the hanging out for the prodigal crew give up
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Well that was well timed wasn't it.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Only one - Trump - needs to get elected for Farage to get on the payroll. Plenty of goodies a President (and a wealthy one at that) can hand out to unelected persons.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814

    Carnyx said:

    Farooq said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @gabyhinsliff

    We haven’t made as much progress on nhs waiting lists as I would have liked says Sunak, admitting to Today prog this is disappointing. He is literally making Labou’s case for them, which is that he’s campaigning on a record of failure

    Just maybe his government should have tried harder to settle the junior doctors dispute. Too late now.
    Tut, no credit where it is due, for the SNP?
    They only did it to look different from yon Westminster.
    To be fair, if true that would probably have been a pretty reliable shorthand for choosing policies over the past decade or so.
    A lesson that Labour, short of Sir Keir ripping his mask off on 5th July to reveal a slavering red in tooth and claw proggy Soc, seem to be on the brink of forgetting.
    The next Holyrood election will be a lot more interesting than PB ****** experts seem to think.
    Yep. I said a while ago that Scotland needs a bracing few years with a goodly number of SLab mps just to clarify exactly what 'change' they're bringing. If the new member for Rutherglen & Hamilton West is anything to go by it won't be pretty but will be edifying.
    The one who got in by advocating SNP policies such as abolishing the 2-bairn benefit cap? Quite.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    Farage not standing is a major boost for the Tories.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    DavidL said:

    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    I suspect that all parties have been caught on the hop with candidates not yet selected, but perhaps REFUK more than the others as Green and LD will be running nearly everywhere with paper candidates.

    I think REFUK candidates need to pay their own deposits and run their own local campaigns, so might find they are well short of the full slate promised, and this will benefit the Tories to some degree.

    When will nominations close?

    The other factor that could produce a hung parliament/minimal majority would be a massive Lab to Green/WPB swing and I just can't see that.

    Most postal votes get returned quickly and they will be going out in just 3 weeks or so. There isn't much time for Sunak to turn it around.

    I've read some convincing arguments that calling the election now is largely about wrongfooting Reform.
    That assumes Reform voters are closet Tory voters. I suspect most of them are none voters who voted in 2017/9 because they wanted what they asked for in 2016 to be implemented
    Not necessarily.
    One theory is that internal polling showing a much larger Tory to Refuk swing were Farage to become leader, and the precipitate choice to call an election was a panicked attempt to forestall that.

    Could well be bollocks, but it has a certain logic to it.
    Donations have reportedly dried up for Reform, they're running on loans from Tice, so they don't have the funds to campaign effectively in the number of seats they threatened. The money will return if the Conservatives look like becoming more moderate to drag them to the right.
    If they're not going because they'll win then it's probably because there's a massive disaster looming they'd rather dump on Labour. Thames Water financial collapse?
    The party to watch for donations and funds is the SNP. Their last accounts showed the party to be broke (or stronger than ever if you prefer the Sturgeon analysis). Things seem to have got worse since then and the never ending shadow of Branchform does not exactly help.

    Swinney is naturally tetchy and moany but some of his unhappiness yesterday must come from the challenge of running a general election with no funds. The risk is that this makes the result even worse which in turn will significantly reduce a major source of revenue for the party from MPs and their expenses claims.

    Oh well.
    Startling moment on @BBCRadioScot this morning as John Swinney appears to acknowledge the SNP has no money for an election campaign, and is going to have to find the money in the next 6 weeks.

    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1793544917865955356
    Would Police Scotland allow them to pawn the Winnebago?
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    Leon said:

    Farage not standing

    The chicken that hasn’t come home to roost..
  • It’s a baffling strategy to say that your flagship policy has failed and then to not only highlight it but use it as a campaign point?

    What on Earth is wrong with Rishi Sunak?
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,272
    edited May 23
    Leon said:

    Farage not standing

    Everything he's done since Brexit got done in 2020 has just been about creating mischief and game playing.

    This maybe an eye-opening moment for some of the more sensible Con > Ref switchers...
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage not standing is a major boost for the Tories.

    I’m not so sure - if Nigel is on GBNews every night his views are going to leak out to the rest of the media,,,
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    algarkirk said:

    algarkirk said:

    eek said:

    Taz said:

    Heathener said:

    ydoethur said:

    Heathener said:

    Foxy said:

    Heathener said:

    Much more of this sort of talk from Conservative MPs and I’ll revise downwards my prediction of 160 seats, which is already pretty generous.

    Voters are sassy. They know that any party with a massive majority is bad. I doubt a majority of more than 40 over all.other parties. It might be more if Labour wipe out the SNP.
    No, I really don't see that. More likely a majority that would make Tony Blair blush.

    It's hard to come up with plausible numbers in electoral Calculus that would produce that outcome.
    Indeed. At the moment there is deep fury at the shambles of the past 5 years and I can’t see that abating. I’ve never heard of voters marking their X in a different box because they fear the outcome of a large majority. Seems like desperately clinging onto a splintered fragment of flotsam to me.
    Er...2017?
    Er, what?

    I know you like your pithy responses but sometimes (often) they don’t mean as much as you might think.

    If you are referring to fear that Theresa May was going to win a landslide I think that had bugger all to do with it compared to her disastrous electioneering. She was unmasked as awkward, out of touch, and unable to respond to journalists’ questions. Most notably at that disastrous welfare shambles.

    She dodged the tv debates and came across as robotic.

    Bugger all to do with people fearing a large majority. They thought she was crap.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2017-40237833

    https://www.politico.eu/article/how-theresa-may-lost-it-uk-election-brexit-jeremy-corbyn-jim-messina-lynton-crosby-uk-sarah-palin-campaign/

    "Bugger all to do with people fearing a large majority. They thought she was crap."

    Yup.

    In a nutshell.
    +1 you can trace May’s change in fortune to the death tax, a sensible idea so badly announced it destroyed their lead.
    Worth noting that this issue is still unresolved decades after all the promises; and that Labour, SFAICS, plan to say nothing except platitudes on the subject before the election. They never mention it. The current situation is toxic, as is all the alternatives. Therefore expect the media, rightly, to make it an issue.

    On current polling the Tories have absolutely no downside. Labour have no upside, and one or two 'bigotgate or death tax or Labour support Hamas' style issues could cause them trouble.

    McFadden this morning had two places he specially didn't want to go: social care and Diane Abbott.
    What did he say on social care?

    They cannot even begin to fix the NHS without sorting out the utter disgrace that is social care system.
    Which requires money.

    And the only place to find it is from property taxes.

    Are Starmer and Reeves willing to take the political hit ?

    If they're going to then they need to do it straight away.
    Well, they are not going to go there before the election are they? There are two elections in their minds: 1992 and 2017. In 2017 the Tories had a disaster ('another win like that and we are finished') beginning with one single, far from insane, policy - the death tax.
    It was the 'dementia tax'.

    But you highlight the problem for Starmer and Reeves.

    Promise not to introduce new property taxes, then immediately do so and they take a big political hit and kill any chance of a honeymoon for the new government.

    Wait a year or more and it becomes harder to blame the previous government and gives them less time for the reforms to work.
  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    eek said:

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
    No it won't as nobody watches it. Farage regularly getting a quick clip on the main channels of him supping pints with locals at the Dog & Duck in Stoke or whatever is much more valuable than having hours of him on GBeebies.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,033
    edited May 23
    Here are my GE guesstimates, for their (very small) worth:

    Lab 44
    Con 30
    LD 12
    Ref 7
    GRN 5

    Lab maj 80-120.

    If only there was a website where I could find out how to make money off these projections.

    Actually it's probably for the best that I haven't found one yet.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 4,189
    eek said:

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
    He is preaching to seminarians and they’ve already taken the vows…
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    A depressing gennylec just got even depressinger. At least Farage would’ve been entertaining, bringing the possibility of total Tory wipe out

    As it is, I reckon the Tories will claw back Reform votes, and scrape to 150-200 seats. Very bad but not the extinction they thoroughly deserve. Boo
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863

    Leon said:
    "Important though the general election is, the contest in the United States of America on November 5 has huge earning potential global significance"
    It is worse than that. Farage spent his life fighting against EU hegemony but now writes off Britain as inevitably subordinate to the United States.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    Britain is a country bumpkin compared to the US for Nigel Farage it seems.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited May 23
    For any nerds out there:

    https://x.com/undertheraedar/status/1793317951518499003

    Constituency hexagon shp files etc
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216

    DavidL said:

    Dopermean said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    eek said:

    Foxy said:

    I suspect that all parties have been caught on the hop with candidates not yet selected, but perhaps REFUK more than the others as Green and LD will be running nearly everywhere with paper candidates.

    I think REFUK candidates need to pay their own deposits and run their own local campaigns, so might find they are well short of the full slate promised, and this will benefit the Tories to some degree.

    When will nominations close?

    The other factor that could produce a hung parliament/minimal majority would be a massive Lab to Green/WPB swing and I just can't see that.

    Most postal votes get returned quickly and they will be going out in just 3 weeks or so. There isn't much time for Sunak to turn it around.

    I've read some convincing arguments that calling the election now is largely about wrongfooting Reform.
    That assumes Reform voters are closet Tory voters. I suspect most of them are none voters who voted in 2017/9 because they wanted what they asked for in 2016 to be implemented
    Not necessarily.
    One theory is that internal polling showing a much larger Tory to Refuk swing were Farage to become leader, and the precipitate choice to call an election was a panicked attempt to forestall that.

    Could well be bollocks, but it has a certain logic to it.
    Donations have reportedly dried up for Reform, they're running on loans from Tice, so they don't have the funds to campaign effectively in the number of seats they threatened. The money will return if the Conservatives look like becoming more moderate to drag them to the right.
    If they're not going because they'll win then it's probably because there's a massive disaster looming they'd rather dump on Labour. Thames Water financial collapse?
    The party to watch for donations and funds is the SNP. Their last accounts showed the party to be broke (or stronger than ever if you prefer the Sturgeon analysis). Things seem to have got worse since then and the never ending shadow of Branchform does not exactly help.

    Swinney is naturally tetchy and moany but some of his unhappiness yesterday must come from the challenge of running a general election with no funds. The risk is that this makes the result even worse which in turn will significantly reduce a major source of revenue for the party from MPs and their expenses claims.

    Oh well.
    Startling moment on @BBCRadioScot this morning as John Swinney appears to acknowledge the SNP has no money for an election campaign, and is going to have to find the money in the next 6 weeks.

    https://x.com/staylorish/status/1793544917865955356
    Would Police Scotland allow them to pawn the Winnebago?
    We want our £110,000 motorhome back say cash-strapped SNP
    11 months after MoS revealed police seized luxury campervan, party demands its return


    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13205291/We-want-110-000-motorhome-say-cash-strapped-SNP.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,546
    Who are the people wearing orange jackets?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    If Sunak can turn the election into a referendum on whether to fly asylum seekers to Rwanda, then the election may develop not necessarily to Labour's advantage.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,272
    edited May 23
    ToryJim said:

    eek said:

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
    He is preaching to seminarians and they’ve already taken the vows…
    Reading the comments on the GB News YouTube channel I get the feeling quite a lot of the true disciples of Farage are becoming tired of him and this latest statement won't endear him any further that's for sure...
  • Fishing said:

    Here are my GE guesstimates, for their (very small) worth:

    Lab 44
    Con 30
    LD 12
    Ref 7
    GRN 5

    Lab maj 80-120.

    If only there was a website where I could find out how to make money off these projections.

    Actually it's probably for the best that I haven't found one yet.

    If the analysis I saw is correct, that kind of gap will produce a larger majority than that
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,863
    edited May 23
    Fishing said:

    Here are my GE guesstimates, for their (very small) worth:

    Lab 44
    Con 30
    LD 12
    Ref 7
    GRN 5

    Lab maj 80-120.

    If only there was a website where I could find out how to make money off these projections.

    Actually it's probably for the best that I haven't found one yet.

    RefUK and Green votes are probably a function of how many seats they stand in. A lot of their erstwhile supporters will be faced with a choice between voting for someone else or staying at home. And do not forget to factor in the SNP (sorry, Plaid, your cause is noble) because figures are quoted on a GB-wide basis.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Only one - Trump - needs to get elected for Farage to get on the payroll. Plenty of goodies a President (and a wealthy one at that) can hand out to unelected persons.
    Not what I meant. I meant it was only an issue for Farage if he got elected. If he didn't get elected then the only barrier was Trump not getting elected. As Farage was very unlikely to get elected there wasn't any issue in him standing and still getting on Trump's payroll. Even less of an issue now Farage is not standing, but I doubt this was his reason for not standing at the GE. It was a problem that was unlikely to arise and if it did it was a wonderful problem for Farage to have.
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    Meanwhile from the local Facebook group, copied verbatim:

    "for 2 days theyve been going on about the the priminster wiv no umbrella jesus it doesnt mater find something else to talk about he spoke. tv should stop wingeing on theres more important things going on in the world....."
  • FossFoss Posts: 1,019
    Eabhal said:

    For any nerds out there:

    https://x.com/undertheraedar/status/1793317951518499003

    Constituency hexagon shp files etc

    X-less link to the files: https://automaticknowledge.org/wpc-hex/
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    Leon said:

    A depressing gennylec just got even depressinger. At least Farage would’ve been entertaining, bringing the possibility of total Tory wipe out

    As it is, I reckon the Tories will claw back Reform votes, and scrape to 150-200 seats. Very bad but not the extinction they thoroughly deserve. Boo

    At the moment former Tory and Labour voters can project whatever values and policies they want onto Reform. Even the name is bland, neutral.

    That effect disappears if Farage takes over. I'm not sure he would have attracted more votes than he would have put off.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    edited May 23

    Kay Burley asking Pat Mcfadden when will labour recognise Palestine as an independent state to placate the Muslim vote, he simply was unwilling to give a definitive answer and said there were many other issues to discuss

    Sounds perfectly sensible to me. There are hundreds, if not thousands, more important things for the UK government to focus on. And Palestine is a fast changing volatile situation so a definitive answer is silly unless it is recognition now. If some voters can't handle that so be it, but I am glad that is Labours position, and it gives me a little confidence Starmer has a reasonable grasp of priorities and will have a pragmatic approach.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited May 23
    Andy_JS said:

    Farage not standing is a major boost for the Tories.

    He clearly doesn't want to give up the large amount GB News pay him.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited May 23
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Only one - Trump - needs to get elected for Farage to get on the payroll. Plenty of goodies a President (and a wealthy one at that) can hand out to unelected persons.
    Not what I meant. I meant it was only an issue for Farage if he got elected. If he didn't get elected then the only barrier was Trump not getting elected. As Farage was very unlikely to get elected there wasn't any issue in him standing and still getting on Trump's payroll. Even less of an issue now Farage is not standing, but I doubt this was his reason for not standing at the GE. It was a problem that was unlikely to arise and if it did it was a wonderful problem for Farage to have.
    If Farage were to have stood in this election then he wouldn't have been able to be in the US for the first Presidential debate in June.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited May 23

    eek said:

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
    No it won't as nobody watches it. Farage regularly getting a quick clip on the main channels of him supping pints with locals at the Dog & Duck in Stoke or whatever is much more valuable than having hours of him on GBeebies.
    He gets regularly gets more viewers now than any news channel at that time slot. Although not exactly floating voters, they will overwhelming be choosing between Reform and Tories. GBNews also get a shocking number of views on social media, 1.4 billion views on YouTube (their strategy is flood it with content & the odd video pops off).
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Only one - Trump - needs to get elected for Farage to get on the payroll. Plenty of goodies a President (and a wealthy one at that) can hand out to unelected persons.
    Not what I meant. I meant it was only an issue for Farage if he got elected. If he didn't get elected then the only barrier was Trump not getting elected. As Farage was very unlikely to get elected there wasn't any issue in him standing and still getting on Trump's payroll. Even less of an issue now Farage is not standing, but I doubt this was his reason for not standing at the GE. It was a problem that was unlikely to arise and if it did it was a wonderful problem for Farage to have.
    What is the rule that stops an MP getting paid by Trump or doing work for him? I thought they just had to declare it and couldn't be a parliamentary strategist, adviser or consultant or do paid advocacy.
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    If Sunak can turn the election into a referendum on whether to fly asylum seekers to Rwanda, then the election may develop not necessarily to Labour's advantage.

    If flights had taken off and there was some deterrent effect that would have been an issue for Labour . As it is not a single flight has taken off so we’ll never know and Labour don’t have to answer awkward questions on that front .

  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited May 23

    Meanwhile from the local Facebook group, copied verbatim:

    "for 2 days theyve been going on about the the priminster wiv no umbrella jesus it doesnt mater find something else to talk about he spoke. tv should stop wingeing on theres more important things going on in the world....."

    From mine, under a report of XL Bullies savaging a local woman:

    "My XL is huge he weighs over 50kg no bother is the biggest softy, brought up with my kids"
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    edited May 23

    eek said:

    Leon said:
    The comedy result will be Farage on Telly ripping the Tories to bits, Tories feeling smug because the Nigel isn't openly campaigning, and RefUK get a couple of million votes regardless.
    Nigel will be on GBNews every night talking about the election - that I suspect is going to do way more harm than him standing for election,..
    No it won't as nobody watches it. Farage regularly getting a quick clip on the main channels of him supping pints with locals at the Dog & Duck in Stoke or whatever is much more valuable than having hours of him on GBeebies.
    Nobody watches GB News. But their social media clips are *massive*...
  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Those figures are abysmal for Sunak .
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,272
    edited May 23

    Leon said:
    "Important though the general election is, the contest in the United States of America on November 5 has huge earning potential global significance"
    This is the guy who was desperate to restore British sovereignty, and now can't even be bothered standing in a British election. What a pillock.
    Well, if after we left the EU he'd said, "Ok, that's it. Job done. I now retire for a quiet life" , then fair enough.

    But since 2020 he's been stirring up trouble and continuing to campaign and attack his political opponents (mostly the Tories) so now when the moment of truth comes and he drops out of standing for election, everything he's done since 2020 looks completely disingenuous.

    But then, this is Farage we're talking about, so of course it looks disingenuous...
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    Something for everyone figures
    Too high
    It's falling
    Plan is working
    Plan isn't working etc
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    I recall the heady days when people used to say that our population would now fall due to leaving the EU as nobody would want to come to Brexit Britain.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited May 23
    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    And Starmer won't be reducing that anytime soon. We are going to need a hell of a lot of new towns being built.

    Small boats of illegals is what 30k a year. Rwanda is a drop in the bucket even if it did work, but will get a stupud amount of coverage during the campaign.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @Savanta_UK

    As the #GE2024 campaign kicks off, our latest research finds Labour’s Shad Cab ‘big 4’ have higher net favourability scores than their government counterparts.

    Starmer (+1) vs Sunak (-22)
    Reeves (+1) vs Hunt (-15)
    Cooper (-1) vs Cleverly (-11)
    Lammy (-6) vs Cameron (-13)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    nico679 said:

    If Sunak can turn the election into a referendum on whether to fly asylum seekers to Rwanda, then the election may develop not necessarily to Labour's advantage.

    If flights had taken off and there was some deterrent effect that would have been an issue for Labour . As it is not a single flight has taken off so we’ll never know and Labour don’t have to answer awkward questions on that front .
    I think quite a lot of voters like the idea of asylum seekers being flown a long way away, and if they see an election as a choice between doing so and not doing so, they will vote to do it.

    The question is whether that becomes the issue uppermost in the mind of voters.
  • It’s not a very animated launch from Rishi is it? Feels like his heart isn’t really in it
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401
    Starmer trying his best to sound interesting
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    The reduction is mostly the first of the increased cohort of international students starting to return. Its (mostly) a technical change not a "real" one.
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    There's still time for a header with a Scotch play gag: Everything in his life became him like the leaving of it. This was essence of Sunak.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    HOW have the Tories so COMPLETELY lost control of immigration???
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906
    edited May 23

    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    And Starmer won't be reducing that anytime soon. We are going to need a hell of a lot of new towns being built.

    Small boats of illegals is what 30k a year. Rwanda is a drop in the bucket even if it did work.
    Now we need another Birmingham and everything in it every 18 months or so. We aren't even remotely close to building enough stuff to keep up with our population growth, nor is any political party serious about the issue. Forget new towns, we need new cities.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027

    Starmer trying his best to sound interesting

    My Dad was a toolmaker and my Mum was a nurse always features
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895
    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Question for Tory leaning voters who are aggrieved by migration is this:

    Do you continue to vote for the Tory party who endlessly fail?

    Or do you switch to Reform who offer a route to get the Tory party back in line with the sensible policies which everyone supports?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    edited May 23
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    I recall the heady days when people used to say that our population would now fall due to leaving the EU as nobody would want to come to Brexit Britain.
    And the heady days when Brexiteers said time to take in the talent of the world instead of being restricted by the racist EU.

    Some folk seem to want to leave Brexit Britain, whether they're indigenes or not is unclear.

    'emigration increased in 2023'
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,976
    edited May 23
    Leon said:

    HOW have the Tories so COMPLETELY lost control of immigration???

    Because you have to make hard decisions and current crop of politicians shit their load if they get any negative press. See complete u-turn on student policy. It was a poorly thougjt out policy to start with, because they didn't want to make hard decisions i.e. not all university post-grad courses are the same, then it got some push back and they ditched it.
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767
    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Yes it is all because of immigration and has nothing to do with the fact we have an incompetent government in hoc to special interests whose signature policy has made us poorer.
  • BatteryCorrectHorseBatteryCorrectHorse Posts: 3,647
    edited May 23
    If - and it’s a big if - Sunak loses, surely that’s the end of Isaac Levido being perceived as some strategic genius. He got lucky in 2019 and nothing since has made me believe he actually knows what he’s doing.
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    But think of the boost to GDP it will give.

    The problem isn't so much immigrants but that they're not heavily paying for the opportunity to migrate here.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,061
    .
    Farooq said:

    The "wally with no brolly" motif is, I think, instructive. Obviously referencing Steve McClaren's ill-fated time as England manager, if he'd stood there holding a brolly, it would have been "the wally with the brolly mk II". If he'd had someone hold one for him, he'd have looked like some imperial figure with a lackey. If he'd delayed to wait for the rain to stop, he'd have been "afraid of a bit of weather". A gazebo flapping around him would have been criticised (and probably noisy with the rain). And so on.

    When you've lost the public, you can't win no matter what you do. That's where we're at with Sunak and the Conservatives in general.

    Maybe something radical, like find a room ?
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Yes it is all because of immigration and has nothing to do with the fact we have an incompetent government in hoc to special interests whose signature policy has made us poorer.
    those special interest being universities, multi nationals and the Bank of England ?
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Apparently Farage not standing for Reform

    I don't expect Reform to be a big factor, maybe 2 or 3% in the end
  • rkrkrkrkrkrk Posts: 8,293

    Apparently Farage not standing for Reform

    I don't expect Reform to be a big factor, maybe 2 or 3% in the end

    Maybe it was unlikely anyway, but suspect that's very good news for Starmer
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Corbyn is announcing he will stand today apparently, we will see what happens with Diane

    Jeremy sitting with the Conservatives, where he belongs.
  • glwglw Posts: 9,906

    Leon said:

    HOW have the Tories so COMPLETELY lost control of immigration???

    Because you have to make hard decisions and current crop of politicians shit their load if they get any negative press. See complete u-turn on student policy. It was a poorly thougjt out policy to start with, because they didn't want to make hard decisions i.e. not all university post-grad courses are the same, then it got some push back and they ditched it.
    Exactly.

    If you want to reduce immigration significantly you are going to have to do things that will be very unpalatable and get a lot of stick. There's no easy or nice way of doing it.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    The post-pandemic increases to immigration have been stupendously big.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    And Starmer won't be reducing that anytime soon. We are going to need a hell of a lot of new towns being built.

    Small boats of illegals is what 30k a year. Rwanda is a drop in the bucket even if it did work.
    Now we need another Birmingham and everything in it every 18 months or so. We aren't even remotely close to building enough stuff to keep up with our population growth, nor is any political party serious about the issue. Forget new towns, we need new cities.
    The immigration debate reminds of the EU headache. For years and years the elite strenuously ignored public concern about the loss of democratic control to Brussels. They ignored the cries of distress, they plunged on in the opposite direction, they promised change (referendum on Lisbon!) and delivered nothing. And on they went

    So it is with immigration. No party will tackle it. We can’t even send one person to Rwanda. Despite spending £100ms. The elite is determined to keep the borders open OR it’s just too Farage-y to worry about and they don’t want to look UKIPy to their friends

    The end result will be the same. We ended up with the ultimate rupture. Brexit. And same here: anger will grow until there is an almighty bust up and voters elect quasi fascists. Something completely avoidable if the problem had been addressed earlier
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @kateferguson4

    As I reported this morning - there were 2 camps of thinking in Tory HQ re election dates.

    One, led by Isaac Levido, wanted to go long to let economic good news sink in & get those interest rate cuts in

    One, led by James Forsyth, called for a snap

    Forsyth (Rishi’s bestie) won
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    Scott_xP said:

    @kateferguson4

    As I reported this morning - there were 2 camps of thinking in Tory HQ re election dates.

    One, led by Isaac Levido, wanted to go long to let economic good news sink in & get those interest rate cuts in

    One, led by James Forsyth, called for a snap

    Forsyth (Rishi’s bestie) won

    And the correct decision
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,782

    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Leon said:

    Come on, Big Nige Farage, stand for Reform! The Snappy Lec is already RIDIC, let’s make it Pokkaliptik

    He wont stand, he wants a gig with the Donald
    Both would have to get elected for that to be an issue, so an unlikely combination. If it did happen I think that would be a problem that Nigel would relish having to decide upon.
    Only one - Trump - needs to get elected for Farage to get on the payroll. Plenty of goodies a President (and a wealthy one at that) can hand out to unelected persons.
    Not what I meant. I meant it was only an issue for Farage if he got elected. If he didn't get elected then the only barrier was Trump not getting elected. As Farage was very unlikely to get elected there wasn't any issue in him standing and still getting on Trump's payroll. Even less of an issue now Farage is not standing, but I doubt this was his reason for not standing at the GE. It was a problem that was unlikely to arise and if it did it was a wonderful problem for Farage to have.
    What is the rule that stops an MP getting paid by Trump or doing work for him? I thought they just had to declare it and couldn't be a parliamentary strategist, adviser or consultant or do paid advocacy.
    Well there are jobs and there are jobs. If he got elected and took on a full time role in America that just might have been an issue.

    Anyway it is all academic as he wasn't going to get elected and the probability of it happening has reduced significantly even further by deciding not to stand.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    I recall the heady days when people used to say that our population would now fall due to leaving the EU as nobody would want to come to Brexit Britain.
    And the heady days when Brexiteers said time to take in the talent of the world instead of being restricted by the racist EU.

    Some folk seem to want to leave Brexit Britain, whether they're indigenes or not is unclear.

    'emigration increased in 2023'
    Well I’ve just applied for my Spanish digital nomad visa. Whether I ever use it I dunno. But good to have the option - emigration
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,767

    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Yes it is all because of immigration and has nothing to do with the fact we have an incompetent government in hoc to special interests whose signature policy has made us poorer.
    those special interest being universities, multi nationals and the Bank of England ?
    Tories' inability to own their party's failures is a sight to behold.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,895

    Apparently Farage not standing for Reform

    I don't expect Reform to be a big factor, maybe 2 or 3% in the end

    Three scenarios:
    1) Farage on GBeebies every night abusing the Tories: Reform pick up a few million votes and no seats (the 2015 scenario)
    2) Farage on GBeebies every night abusing the Tories: fed up Tory voters abstain (the 1997 scenario)
    3) Farage on GBebies every night abusing the Tories: Reform voters "go home" to vote Tory
  • VerulamiusVerulamius Posts: 1,543


    From the ONS immigration report. Huge increase in people coming to the UK to work.
  • MortimerMortimer Posts: 14,125
    edited May 23
    Scott_xP said:

    @kateferguson4

    As I reported this morning - there were 2 camps of thinking in Tory HQ re election dates.

    One, led by Isaac Levido, wanted to go long to let economic good news sink in & get those interest rate cuts in

    One, led by James Forsyth, called for a snap

    Forsyth (Rishi’s bestie) won

    Rishi's problem has always been holding too little store by the views of those who understand how to win votes, and too much by those of the dinner party circuit.

    This is one of the many reasons why activists aren't keen on him....
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,401

    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Yes it is all because of immigration and has nothing to do with the fact we have an incompetent government in hoc to special interests whose signature policy has made us poorer.
    those special interest being universities, multi nationals and the Bank of England ?
    Tories' inability to own their party's failures is a sight to behold.
    Right, so you dont know who these vested interest are ?
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Farooq said:

    The "wally with no brolly" motif is, I think, instructive. Obviously referencing Steve McClaren's ill-fated time as England manager, if he'd stood there holding a brolly, it would have been "the wally with the brolly mk II". If he'd had someone hold one for him, he'd have looked like some imperial figure with a lackey. If he'd delayed to wait for the rain to stop, he'd have been "afraid of a bit of weather". A gazebo flapping around him would have been criticised (and probably noisy with the rain). And so on.

    When you've lost the public, you can't win no matter what you do. That's where we're at with Sunak and the Conservatives in general.

    Maybe something radical, like find a room ?
    He doesn't fill his own car with petrol. He certainly doesn't make his own election announcement arrangements. Staff who liked him and wished him well would probably help.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027

    Apparently Farage not standing for Reform

    I don't expect Reform to be a big factor, maybe 2 or 3% in the end

    Three scenarios:
    1) Farage on GBeebies every night abusing the Tories: Reform pick up a few million votes and no seats (the 2015 scenario)
    2) Farage on GBeebies every night abusing the Tories: fed up Tory voters abstain (the 1997 scenario)
    3) Farage on GBebies every night abusing the Tories: Reform voters "go home" to vote Tory
    More likely Sunak and Starmer dominate the media
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366

    Leon said:

    The deets in the migration stats are bleak as fuck



    “The number of non-EU nationals arriving as dependants of those on long-term work visas has overtaken the number of main applicants, increasing from 125,000 to 219,000 for dependant applicants and from 152,000 to 204,000 for main applicants, in the YE December 2023. “

    220,000 dependants. People with no jobs that now require schools, health, welfare, housing, pensions, childcare

    It’s a national policy of self destruction via immigration. And we wonder why our public services are under pressure, our rivers full of shit, house ownership a dream for many, and hospitals packed to bursting, with queues snaking round the food banks

    Yes it is all because of immigration and has nothing to do with the fact we have an incompetent government in hoc to special interests whose signature policy has made us poorer.
    Whose wife makes a lot of money from outsourcing / inshoring expensive IT projects
  • GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,860
    The last thing froggy wants is an actual job; the real work of being an MP would be a nightmare for him.

    He might be nasty, grasping opportunistic narcissist, but he’s not daft.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    https://x.com/YouGov/status/1793409939869929872?s=19

    Pretty much confirms they'd have been punished for delaying
  • another_richardanother_richard Posts: 26,585
    Leon said:

    HOW have the Tories so COMPLETELY lost control of immigration???

    Its something which all relatively desirable countries are experiencing.

    But there's certainly an establishment mentality that an ever expanding population is a good thing to keep wages down and property values rising.

    Possibly linked to drivel about world influence and colonialism.

    And whenever a route to immigration is opened the numbers always exceed those predicted.

    From 2020:

    Our short-term migration assumptions are effective for the first six years of the projections period up to the year starting mid-2026; over this timeframe, UK net migration averages 232,000 each year.

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/populationprojections/methodologies/nationalpopulationprojectionsmigrationassumptions2020basedinterim#:~:text=Figure 1 shows that the,-2020 to mid-2026.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541
    Leon said:

    glw said:

    Leon said:

    Long-term net migration (the number of people immigrating minus the number emigrating) was provisionally estimated to be 685,000 in the year ending (YE) December 2023, compared with our updated estimate of 764,000 for the YE December 2022; while it is too early to say if this is the start of a new downward trend, emigration increased in 2023, while new Home Office data show visa applications have fallen in recent months....

    https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/populationandmigration/internationalmigration/bulletins/longterminternationalmigrationprovisional/yearendingdecember2023

    Literally 1% of the population of the UK, arriving in a single year. This is the overwhelming Tory failure and this is why they need to DIE
    I recall the heady days when people used to say that our population would now fall due to leaving the EU as nobody would want to come to Brexit Britain.
    And the heady days when Brexiteers said time to take in the talent of the world instead of being restricted by the racist EU.

    Some folk seem to want to leave Brexit Britain, whether they're indigenes or not is unclear.

    'emigration increased in 2023'
    Well I’ve just applied for my Spanish digital nomad visa. Whether I ever use it I dunno. But good to have the option - emigration
    Thank you for your assistance cutting off that option for those whose jobs require a physical presence in the UK.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    Leon said:

    HOW have the Tories so COMPLETELY lost control of immigration???

    Almost all of this is due to visas issued by the Home Office. It's under control. It's a choice.

    I didn't realise that the number of study visas had tripled. In the news it always seems to be about work visas being tightened and the salary threshold increased, but the number of visas issued has soared.

    Net migration of EU nationals is now negative, so Brexit certainly having an impact.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,457

    Corbyn is announcing he will stand today apparently, we will see what happens with Diane

    Jeremy sitting with the Conservatives, where he belongs.
    Is there a source for this? All I've seen were some vague comments from John McDonnell on Peston yesterday that Jez would have "lots of personal support" if he were to stand...

    (I'd be surprised but not shocked if he did - I suspect that he's under a lot of pressure from others who want him to go for it, but the man himself is likely more ambivalent)
This discussion has been closed.