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Sunak’s decision looks even more courageous – politicalbetting.com

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  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    Funky music.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,376

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    Still dithering...
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099

    ping said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    A Tory majority is 32 on BX.

    Thirty-two.

    It's almost value!

    You do have to wonder. I mean. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE. But how unlikely? Leicester winning the Premier League likely?
    I got on con maj @ 25/1, on the eve of the election 2015, which was a great bet.

    I'd go evens con maj will be available at 999/1 before 10pm July 4th 2024, which makes 32/1 (available now) a bad bet, in my book.

    caveat; I might be wrong. I often am.
    I tipped the 25/1 on here, btw.

    I think Tissue Price, and a few of the sharper PB right-wingers cleaned up on that one.

    I just got £40 on, myself.
    Where I absolutely cleaned up in 2015 was Scotland.

    Alastair Meeks had this theory that Yes would lose the Indyref but then the SNP would win the constituencies at GE2015.

    Won quite a few Scottish seats at 66/1, 50/1,and 33/1
    And now you can bet on the SNP getting absolutely gubbed :)
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited May 22
    GIN1138 said:

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    Still dithering...
    Gives me an excuse to use that Farage photo in a thread header tomorrow.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @sturdyAlex

    Rishi Sunak launch vibe: middle manager at struggling IT services firm trying to inspire staff who spent the day updating their résumé and putting out 'feelers'.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    It depends whether he gets out of the far-right side of bed in the morning.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    On the suit in the rain thing.

    Could it be that Sunak is a massive West Wing fan?

    Somehow that seems to fit.

    More Wet Wing.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited May 22

    Three aims for the Conservatives from this election.

    Firstly, avoid falling too far behind in seats. To stay above 170 seats. Secondly, this is the Conservative Party nadir, to see off the threat from Reform at this nadir, stealing their vote, smashing their arguments, so as the Conservatives return to popularity in coming years, it will be easier with Reform out of the way. Thirdly, in the inevitable leadership election after this defeat, a new leader MUST work to return the Party to the USP that made them own the last 100 years of British Politics, not a leader that will take them further down the road of the alt right MAGA junk imported from America. Further down that road is further away from the UK electorate.

    If I may, the second aim seems incompatible with both the first and third aims.

    Political parties win from the centre. Moving way off to the right does nothing to see off RefUK (as you can't out-crazy crazy), and only encourages whatever is left of the parliamentary party to go full tonto to try and recover lost ground.

    Question - would the return of the Nigel tomorrow be a blessing in disguise? Sunak cannot hope to compete for the crazy vote against Farage, so would you even bother to try? A harder defeat in this election but a clearer route back after ReformBrexKip once again get millions of votes and no seats...
    Seeing Reform off by attacking Reform positions as right wing unicorn politics, in contrast with a real world party and real world manifesto - and via those attacks shrivel the Reform voter base to a “it’s hopeless, we may as well disband this one man band” level. This is important. The conservatives can struggle to be heard and come back quickly if battling Reform in polls and votes throughout next parliament. On Con Home is obvious so many right wing votes Cons need looked down, are being peeled away. But the Conservatives can put out a serious right of centre manifesto and candidates, Reform can’t. Tories need to get aggressive with Reforms unicorn politics.

    of the next likely Conservative leaders, they would give Farage a membership card. I think that is his preference from politics at the moment, so whatever his return is, it doesn’t want to hurt his chances of that membership card.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    ping said:

    ping said:

    biggles said:

    A Tory majority is 32 on BX.

    Thirty-two.

    It's almost value!

    You do have to wonder. I mean. It’s not IMPOSSIBLE. But how unlikely? Leicester winning the Premier League likely?
    I got on con maj @ 25/1, on the eve of the election 2015, which was a great bet.

    I'd go evens con maj will be available at 999/1 before 10pm July 4th 2024, which makes 32/1 (available now) a bad bet, in my book.

    caveat; I might be wrong. I often am.
    I tipped the 25/1 on here, btw.

    I think Tissue Price, and a few of the sharper PB right-wingers cleaned up on that one.

    I just got £40 on, myself.
    Where I absolutely cleaned up in 2015 was Scotland.

    Alastair Meeks had this theory that Yes would lose the Indyref but then the SNP would win the constituencies at GE2015.

    Won quite a few Scottish seats at 66/1, 50/1,and 33/1
    Ynys Mon was for the last two elections my great coup. Not necessarily in terms of monetary gains, but just in terms of being a little self-satisfied.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    An interesting bet could be Lab above/below 40%.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.223276482
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282

    GIN1138 said:

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    Still dithering...
    Gives me an excuse to use that Farage photo in a thread header tomorrow.
    The real power couple of British politics:

    image
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991
    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,593
    July 4th falls during the Euros football championship, between the round of 16 and the quarter-finals, so optimistic travelling fans may need to get a postal/proxy vote organised promptly.
    Oh, and Gary Lineker had better mind his Ps and Qs.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Taz said:

    ping said:

    I don't understand why Hunt is 50/1 next Con leader.

    Should be substantially shorter than that, surely?

    If the polls are right then he's going to be the new 'Were you up for Portillo?' moment for this election.
    There’ll be a few of them.
    In 1997 seven cabinet ministers lost their seats, I reckon more will be culled this time around.
    Most of them do have sizable majorities


    (Name) (Constituency) (Majority) (Second Place) (Note - eg big changes to seat)
    Cabinet
    Rishi Sunak Richmond (Yorks) 27210 Labour
    Oliver Dowden Hertsmere 21313 Labour
    Jeremy Hunt South West Surrey 8817 Liberal Democrat 41.5% of seat into new Godalming and Ash seat
    James Cleverly Braintree 24673 Labour
    Grant Shapps Welwyn Hatfield 10955 Labour
    Alex Chalk Cheltenham 981 Liberal Democrat
    Michelle Donelan Chippenham 11288 Liberal Democrat 46.5% of seat into new Melksham and Devizes seat
    Victoria Atkins Louth and Horncastle 28868 Labour
    Michael Gove Surrey Heath 18349 Liberal Democrat
    Steve Barclay North East Cambridgeshire 29993 Labour
    Penny Mordaunt Portsmouth North 15780 Labour
    Kemi Badenoch Saffron Walden 27594 Liberal Democrat 89.2% into new North West Essex Seat
    Claire Coutinho East Surrey 24040 Liberal Democrat
    Mel Stride Central Devon 17721 Labour
    Gillian Keegan Chichester 21490 Liberal Democrat
    Mark Harper Forest of Dean 15869 Labour
    Lucy Frazer South East Cambridgeshire 11490 Liberal Democrat
    Richard Holden North West Durham 1144 Labour Not selected in Blaydon and Consett, which has 49% of old seat. Elsewhere?
    Chris Heaton-Harris Daventry 26080 Labour Not restanding
    Alister Jack Dumfries and Galloway 1805 SNP Not restanding
    David Davies Monmouth 9982 Labour

    Attends Cabinet
    Simon Hart Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire 7745 Labour Standing in Caerfyddin - 39% of current seat
    Laura Trott Sevenoaks 20818 Liberal Democrat
    Victoria Prentis Banbury 16813 Labour New Banbury seat 61.5% old seat
    John Glen Salisbury 19736 Liberal Democrat
    Esther McVey Tatton 17387 Labour
    Tom Tugendhat Tonbridge and Malling 26941 Liberal Democrat
    Andrew Mitchell Sutton Coldfield 19272 Labour
    Johnny Mercer Plymouth Moor View 12897 Labour
    Michael Tomlinson Mid Dorset and North Poole 14898 Liberal Democrat

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Rishi Sunak launch vibe: middle manager at struggling IT services firm trying to inspire staff who spent the day updating their résumé and putting out 'feelers'.

    The Office
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    Andy_JS said:

    An interesting bet could be Lab above/below 40%.

    https://www.betfair.com/exchange/plus/politics/market/1.223276482

    Don't tell BJO!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    ohnotnow said:

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.

    The cabinet meeting was probably petty good

    "This is a bad idea"

    "I already asked the King..."
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    GIN1138 said:

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    Still dithering...
    He's teasing.

    No need to stand, but he should commit to a full throated campaign.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,457
    AlsoLei said:

    My predictions (Wild A**ed Guess-style):.

    *) A Labour majority of at least 100. Perhaps 150.
    *) Discontent with Labour's stance on Israel hurts Labour, but not as much as Reform hurt the Conservatives.
    *) In Scotland, Labour get more seats than the SNP.
    *) Within three months, there is a scandal involving one of the new Labour MPs.
    *) Labour to relatively underperform in Wales, but still get >25 of the reduced number of seats.
    *) Sunak resigns; the new Tory leader is from the batsh*t insane wing of the party.
    *) Starmer to get less than 60% in his own constituency due to a raft of anto-Starmer candidates, but obvs. retain his seat.
    *) Sunak to et less than 50% in his own constituency, but retain his seat.
    *) Turnout to be less than 65%. A desire to chuck out the Tories outweighed by a yawn over Starmer.

    Agree with most of those, but on your fourth prediction - I suspect that any such scandal would be more likely to be attached to an existing 2015/17/19 intake MP newly promoted to junior ministerial office.

    Starmer's team has kept a pretty tight rein over selections even in less-winnable seats, so PPCs will have been vetted much more thoroughly than the likes of Jared O'Mara ever were (much to the chagrin of Momentum et al!).

    There's more of a risk in seats where selection hasn't finished yet - but I assume that now the election's been called they'll mostly be decided by the NEC rather than individual CLPs?
    "Starmer's team has kept a pretty tight rein over selections even in less-winnable seats, "

    His initial choice for the Rochdale by-election wasn't very successful. And the less winnable the seat, the less effort has probably gone into vetting. I'm thinking of another Jared O'Mara situation - albeit both he and the Rochdale candidate were hurried selections, so perhaps I'm wrong. But social media has a way of catching people out, especially over historic comments...
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biggest winner from Rishi's announcement seems to be Paula Vennells, already off all the front pages and main headlines

    Watching her today made me realize what a cruel place we live in. I don't believe she deliberately set about trying to ruin the lives of innocent people but somehow we can't free ourselves from the ghoulish delight of public humiliation. Watching Alex Thompson of Ch4 News lifting her umbrella as she tried to leave the court so he could bully her further was almost unwatchable.
    I think we were watching a calculated liar. A key moment was the revelation that even a close ally recently abandoned her on the basis that she simply didn't believe Vennells didn't know - which is her entire, pretty implausible defence.

    If she isn't a liar, and was simply utterly useless at her job in all respects, then maybe she'd just squeeze some human sympathy from me. But I really don't think that's where the evidence points.
    My take from the enquiry so far is that the PO were treating criminal prosecutions like civil litigation. Civil litigation is, of course, a very serious matter but people are not being banged up (unless they’re in contempt) as a result of it. It’s seen as a bit of a game by most in the business world, all about beating the opposition, justice rarely comes into it but the stakes are so low, comparatively, that it’s given a pass. Take that “win at all costs” attitude into criminal proceedings and it’s a whole new ball game. That’s has happened here. Criminal prosecution as business decision.
  • DougSealDougSeal Posts: 12,541

    Farage to announce tomorrow if he is standing 'will think about it overnight'

    He loves the attention doesn’t he.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @sturdyAlex

    Sky News' political correspondent and crew are currently being FOLLOWED BY SECURITY around the circumference of the ExCel centre, to ensure he doesn't even get anywhere near the building where our glorious leader, Kim Jong Sunak, is launching his campaign for your vote. SHAMBLES.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Andy_JS said:
    I was thinking that. I have taken the 32 on the Tory majority already.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Sky News' political correspondent and crew are currently being FOLLOWED BY SECURITY around the circumference of the ExCel centre, to ensure he doesn't even get anywhere near the building where our glorious leader, Kim Jong Sunak, is launching his campaign for your vote. SHAMBLES.

    Hilarious stuff. Live comedy on Sky News.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500
    Scott_xP said:

    ohnotnow said:

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.

    The cabinet meeting was probably petty good

    "This is a bad idea"

    "I already asked the King..."
    I assume he asked for the dissolution at his weekly audience, so before the much-hyped cabinet meeting.

    In which case, it was a done deal - so why did he need to drag Cameron and Shapps back from their overseas trips?

    Cameron's case was particularly embarrassing, with Tirana having laid on almost an almost state visit level of welcome. It's not like he's going to be playing an active role in the campaign, so what was the point?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    In brief, 11/30 of Cabinet Members (or those who 'attend Cabinet') have majorities over 20k and probably feel fairly safe.

    8 more have majorities over 15k and probably are safe but in these times will be at least cautious.

    5 more have majorities over 10k and are nervous.

    6 more have majorities under 10k and most are probably toast, especially the 3 under 2k.

    (However one of those is Dumfries and Galloway so it depends on the SNP and if Labour can leapfrog the Tories, and Jack is not standing anyway)

    This is all nominal as in a few seats there are signifcant changes to boundaries not calculated (most changes are small, 10-20% different)
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @LukeTryl
    🚨 🧵 First focus group of the General Election campaign in Hyndburn tonight - with a key group the Tories need to win back: Tory 2019 voters who have switched to Labour. Their feedback shows the scale of the challenges the Tories face.... Here's what they had to say...

    "I don't understand all this talk of square one, because we've been back to square one over and over again with the Tory Party, because we keep getting these leaders we didn't elect. So for me, all that is pie in the sky" said Lucy

    Damien explained "I think they've caused the problems that he's trying to fix - that's the way I see it, so I don't believe a word he's saying to be honest"

    Adam said "If you keep a football manager in a club for whats been like 14 years now? And they've not won the League one year. There's only 2 managers in this race then the Tories have pretty much failed.

    He went on "Does that mean Labour will do better? When you get rid of one manager you just hope the next one's better. It's probably more a sense of apathy than thinking Labour will do better, but at least Starmer is making things clearer in terms of what he's gonna do"

    as explained "He's saying that right now inflation is back at its normal rate. To be honest is that it? That's the only thing that he's achieved... how long does it take for him to achieve that? How many Prime Ministers have we been through to achieve just that?
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    Just before they called it? Have you seen the Sky News clips?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991
    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    One of his SPAD's suits so that his didn't get wet?
  • MundoMundo Posts: 36
    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @TheNewsAgents

    “I can’t describe how pissed off I’d be if I was a Tory MP.”

    “Day one of the election campaign - tomorrow - is going to be about net migration figures and they are going to be bad.”
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    Just before they called it? Have you seen the Sky News clips?
    I realise it's a lot of potential material to work with all round.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    On the suit in the rain thing.

    Could it be that Sunak is a massive West Wing fan?

    Somehow that seems to fit.

    More Wet Wing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500
    "I've just come back in from calling the general election"

    A lie - he's not soaked!
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    The impact of GB News on the campaign could be a bit of a wildcard. It will be the first election since the era of satellite TV where there's been a significant new player in the news media market.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    ohnotnow said:

    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    One of his SPAD's suits so that his didn't get wet?
    But you know. I'm sure, that a good suit just gets wet and baggy (and possibly ruined). Even a SPAD should have a good suit, and perhaps especially a SPAD.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653

    On the suit in the rain thing.

    Could it be that Sunak is a massive West Wing fan?

    Somehow that seems to fit.

    More Wet Wing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    With Jacob Rees-Mogg making a guest appearance as "Man swearing in Latin".
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    AlsoLei said:

    "I've just come back in from calling the general election"

    A lie - he's not soaked!
    He should have skipped the lectern moment altogether and just dropped a video announcement on Twitter.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    Sean_F said:

    If other polls follow Survation, I suspect Con and Lab will both see their numbers jump, at the expense of their rivals on right and left.

    I think Reform will do no better than the Referendum Party.

    The Conservatives are heading for a hammering, but can probably hope to hold 20 or so seats the Lib Dem’s won in 1997/2001.

    I wonder what the Leeanderthal Man's new career will be?

    TV Personality, working class turned nearly middle class.

    Relaunch of Fred Flintstone, based in Ashfield?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    ...
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
    I think you're right- see also the speechwriters who send him out with dismal bilge to read. Question is- why? I can think of two reasons, neither of them encouraging.

    One is that there's nobody capable who is prepared to work for the Conservatives. All the bright young things who are meant to do this sort of thing are batting for the other team, so to speak.

    The other is that Rishi isn't able to get loyalty from his staff. Because he's Rishi.

    Those are both pretty dismal prospects... what am I missing?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    Someone on VoteUK forum is going through all the seats predicting what they think will happen. Strikes me as a slightly boring thing to do as far as safe seats are concerned.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/user/1111/recent
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    edited May 22

    Anything happen whilst I was out today? ;)

    I feel a little out of touch - went to a funeral in a village church, where there was no mobile reception in either the church, churchyard, or pub (for the wake). I can't remember last time I was at a do where there was no mobile reception. Certainly pre-covid...

    And this was not a remote area.

    Yes the prime minister got wet because he wasn't able to organise someone to hold an umbrella while he was speaking.

    Oh and he would like stay on as prime minister for another five years.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500
    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Après moi, le déluge?
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500

    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
    You might be forgiven for wondering if wasn't instead that Sunak refused to take their advice...
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    I've no idea what your link is pointing towards. American suits aren't quite right, and I'm sure you are aware of this.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    AlsoLei said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
    The one of him and Ange kneeling for BLM in 2020
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Andy_JS said:

    Someone on VoteUK forum is going through all the seats predicting what they think will happen. Strikes me as a slightly boring thing to do as far as safe seats are concerned.

    https://vote-2012.proboards.com/user/1111/recent

    I admire the dedication though - have to be thorough.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Sky News' political correspondent and crew are currently being FOLLOWED BY SECURITY around the circumference of the ExCel centre, to ensure he doesn't even get anywhere near the building where our glorious leader, Kim Jong Sunak, is launching his campaign for your vote. SHAMBLES.

    Hilarious stuff. Live comedy on Sky News.
    Spectacular. Sky News. LIVE at the PM's campaign launch. Being thrown out by security goons.

    Last time we had Boris hiding in a fridge from Piers Morgan. What fun can we expect this time? How about security forcing BBC News into a fridge live on air?
  • megasaurmegasaur Posts: 586
    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biggest winner from Rishi's announcement seems to be Paula Vennells, already off all the front pages and main headlines

    Watching her today made me realize what a cruel place we live in. I don't believe she deliberately set about trying to ruin the lives of innocent people but somehow we can't free ourselves from the ghoulish delight of public humiliation. Watching Alex Thompson of Ch4 News lifting her umbrella as she tried to leave the court so he could bully her further was almost unwatchable.
    I think we were watching a calculated liar. A key moment was the revelation that even a close ally recently abandoned her on the basis that she simply didn't believe Vennells didn't know - which is her entire, pretty implausible defence.

    If she isn't a liar, and was simply utterly useless at her job in all respects, then maybe she'd just squeeze some human sympathy from me. But I really don't think that's where the evidence points.
    Oh, I think she didn't want to know. I suspect that strong hints were given to her, and she chose to remain ignorant.
    I think she Believes in Fujitsu, just as she Believes in the virgin birth and the resurrection and the life everlasting. Because when you Believe like that, the more obvious the evidence to the contrary which you refuse to accept the more virtuous you are. I seriously think that's her problem that she dedicated herself to the greater good of the PO like a nun dedicating herself to her Order.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Bore off.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited May 22
    On Sunak's Shrinking Trousers, I had not realised that this had made the tabloid press:

    image
    Indy fashion pages, no less.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/rishi-sunak-suit-trousers-style-tailors-b2523288.html
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948

    Anything happen whilst I was out today? ;)

    I feel a little out of touch - went to a funeral in a village church, where there was no mobile reception in either the church, churchyard, or pub (for the wake). I can't remember last time I was at a do where there was no mobile reception. Certainly pre-covid...

    And this was not a remote area.

    There's nothing wrong with going incommunicado for a while.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    AlsoLei said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
    The one of him and Ange kneeling for BLM in 2020
    Ancient history, and requires an explanation of what it is about.

    Whereas soggy Sunak is a bacon sandwich of a photo, it looks bad regardless of context.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 10,061
    kle4 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
    The one of him and Ange kneeling for BLM in 2020
    Ancient history, and requires an explanation of what it is about.

    Whereas soggy Sunak is a bacon sandwich of a photo, it looks bad regardless of context.
    I know. I was just saying which photo he meant
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888
    AlsoLei said:

    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
    You might be forgiven for wondering if wasn't instead that Sunak refused to take their advice...
    I was wondering if he was trying to do a Trudeau at the D-Day commemorations.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Bore off.
    STARMER
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @sturdyAlex

    Not the biggest thing, but holding your "we have a plan, we are great at this" campaign launch ON THE SITE where you spaffed £57m on a pop-up Covid hospital, which served a total of 54 patients, because nobody thought that hospitals need staff... it's quite an elegant summary.
  • kyf_100kyf_100 Posts: 4,951
    MattW said:

    On Sunak's Shrinking Trousers, I had not realised that this had made the tabloid press:

    image
    Indy fashion pages, no less.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/rishi-sunak-suit-trousers-style-tailors-b2523288.html

    It looks like he's wearing high heels on the far right.

    A bit like Goering, in that respect...
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    edited May 22
    ...
  • UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 888
    EPG said:

    On the suit in the rain thing.

    Could it be that Sunak is a massive West Wing fan?

    Somehow that seems to fit.

    More Wet Wing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    With Jacob Rees-Mogg making a guest appearance as "Man swearing in Latin".
    I know how much fans of the show rave about this episode, and maybe I'm a philistine, but I thought that whole scene was a bit, as the youth might say, cringe.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    Forced to work in the rain unnecessarily?

    Join a union.


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @IanDunt

    'And then, remarkably, Sunak began to talk about his plan. But he was, quite literally, a man outside, in the rain, without an umbrella.'
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    AlsoLei said:

    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
    You might be forgiven for wondering if wasn't instead that Sunak refused to take their advice...
    Fair question. But if they are looking after him properly, he doesn’t get choice to refuse.

    Alastair Campbell would have put a hand out the window and said “Hang on tone, Steve’s going out with you with an umbrella.”

    The Campbell Diaries are full of
    “Whose fucking idea was it for you to wear that shit?”
    “Cherie’s.”
    “Go upstairs and change. You’re not going out there like that.”
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @KateEMcCann
    Bumped into senior member of Team Sunak leaving Downing Street this eve. I asked why now? They said this July date has been a slow burn for the PM and better economic news coupled with a fear that public have stopped listening were deciding factors. The biggest though? "Things have started to go wrong... that's going to keep happening. You don't want to be sat there in Downing Street all summer while they do"
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    kle4 said:

    AlsoLei said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
    The one of him and Ange kneeling for BLM in 2020
    Ancient history, and requires an explanation of what it is about.

    Whereas soggy Sunak is a bacon sandwich of a photo, it looks bad regardless of context.
    Kneeling Starmer is the first image of him which comes to mind when I think of him.
    Rather a leader like Rishi who can't do politics than one like Starmer who can do it all too well.
    The second thing which comes to mind is the man who always called for longer, harder lockdowns.
    He's no Corbyn, thank God. But his instincts seem to be unfailingly the opposite of mine.
  • HeathenerHeathener Posts: 7,084

    Anything happen whilst I was out today? ;)

    I feel a little out of touch - went to a funeral in a village church, where there was no mobile reception in either the church, churchyard, or pub (for the wake). I can't remember last time I was at a do where there was no mobile reception. Certainly pre-covid...

    And this was not a remote area.

    Not Surrey by any chance?

    Mobile reception is appalling throughout much of the county. Blame it on trees and planning resistance.

    More trees, private schools and, erm, dogging than any other county. Apparently.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,771
    kle4 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    ...

    Après moi, le déluge?
    auprès de moi le déluge … je pense
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    Scott_xP said:

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    Forced to work in the rain unnecessarily?

    Join a union.


    Is it still raining?

    I hadn't noticed.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Not the biggest thing, but holding your "we have a plan, we are great at this" campaign launch ON THE SITE where you spaffed £57m on a pop-up Covid hospital, which served a total of 54 patients, because nobody thought that hospitals need staff... it's quite an elegant summary.

    Eh? Is that the narrative about them on Twitter? The government is terrible and will lose - no need to tell lies like that, which are mostly insulting non-politicians who risked their lives to save others.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    MattW said:

    On Sunak's Shrinking Trousers, I had not realised that this had made the tabloid press:

    image
    Indy fashion pages, no less.
    https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/fashion/rishi-sunak-suit-trousers-style-tailors-b2523288.html

    He's not alone in this sartorial choice. Lots of men do it. And they all look berks.
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,808

    The impact of GB News on the campaign could be a bit of a wildcard. It will be the first election since the era of satellite TV where there's been a significant new player in the news media market.

    Ah yes, the entertainment outlet that preaches to its converted
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @benrileysmith

    One thing already quite notable in both of Sunak’s election pitches…

    How much he talks about his time as chancellor handling Covid

    Which was 2+ yrs ago. (And, notably, when he had much higher poll ratings)

    Will voters really judge him on that record vs more recent things?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    edited May 22
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    I've no idea what your link is pointing towards. American suits aren't quite right, and I'm sure you are aware of this.
    It's a reference to the West Wing episode "Two Cathedrals", where the President is caught in a storm and announces his campaign for a second term whilst soaking wet. A clip is below

    PB is chock full of political geeks and nerds who, depending on age, nationality or stance, obsessively quote from "The West Wing", "Yes Minister" or "The Thick Of It". The smarter ones tend to do "Star Trek", "Babylon 5" or Terry Pratchett. This causes the ingenues some anguish and are forced to quote from Twitter in lieu.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme1Vrc2ow0
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Taz said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Bore off.
    STARMER
    TRUSS







    Mornington Crescent.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    megasaur said:

    rcs1000 said:

    Roger said:

    HYUFD said:

    Biggest winner from Rishi's announcement seems to be Paula Vennells, already off all the front pages and main headlines

    Watching her today made me realize what a cruel place we live in. I don't believe she deliberately set about trying to ruin the lives of innocent people but somehow we can't free ourselves from the ghoulish delight of public humiliation. Watching Alex Thompson of Ch4 News lifting her umbrella as she tried to leave the court so he could bully her further was almost unwatchable.
    I think we were watching a calculated liar. A key moment was the revelation that even a close ally recently abandoned her on the basis that she simply didn't believe Vennells didn't know - which is her entire, pretty implausible defence.

    If she isn't a liar, and was simply utterly useless at her job in all respects, then maybe she'd just squeeze some human sympathy from me. But I really don't think that's where the evidence points.
    Oh, I think she didn't want to know. I suspect that strong hints were given to her, and she chose to remain ignorant.
    I think she Believes in Fujitsu, just as she Believes in the virgin birth and the resurrection and the life everlasting. Because when you Believe like that, the more obvious the evidence to the contrary which you refuse to accept the more virtuous you are. I seriously think that's her problem that she dedicated herself to the greater good of the PO like a nun dedicating herself to her Order.
    She believed herself to be virtuous. And because she was virtuous, what she actually did must have been the right thing.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    edited May 22

    Scott_xP said:

    Trades Union Congress
    @The_TUC
    Forced to work in the rain unnecessarily?

    Join a union.


    Is it still raining?

    I hadn't noticed.
    It looks even more weird because they managed to make his hair withstand the rain. It makes it look as if his suit is melting.
  • AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,500

    AlsoLei said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Kneeling Starmer? What's that about?
    The one of him and Ange kneeling for BLM in 2020
    Mm, so I see. Ancient history, surely - and three years before Sunak knelt for Sheikh Hasina!
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @RobDotHutton
    The eternal Sunak question.


  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,198
    Is it possible to find out in advance which four days of the campaign will centre around the “what is a woman” question, so it can be ignored until it goes away?
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Taz said:

    Mundo said:

    We already have general consensus on which image of “Soggy” Sunak will dominate rival parties’ output on social media etc.

    Might I suggest “Kneeling” Starmer will feature heavily also?

    Bore off.
    STARMER
    'LIFELONG LABOUR VOTER'





    LOL.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    Scott_xP said:

    @LukeTryl
    🚨 🧵 First focus group of the General Election campaign in Hyndburn tonight - with a key group the Tories need to win back: Tory 2019 voters who have switched to Labour. Their feedback shows the scale of the challenges the Tories face.... Here's what they had to say...

    "I don't understand all this talk of square one, because we've been back to square one over and over again with the Tory Party, because we keep getting these leaders we didn't elect. So for me, all that is pie in the sky" said Lucy

    Damien explained "I think they've caused the problems that he's trying to fix - that's the way I see it, so I don't believe a word he's saying to be honest"

    Adam said "If you keep a football manager in a club for whats been like 14 years now? And they've not won the League one year. There's only 2 managers in this race then the Tories have pretty much failed.

    He went on "Does that mean Labour will do better? When you get rid of one manager you just hope the next one's better. It's probably more a sense of apathy than thinking Labour will do better, but at least Starmer is making things clearer in terms of what he's gonna do"

    as explained "He's saying that right now inflation is back at its normal rate. To be honest is that it? That's the only thing that he's achieved... how long does it take for him to achieve that? How many Prime Ministers have we been through to achieve just that?

    "All this is pie in the sky said Lucy"

    I feel a song coming on......
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    Tories and Sky News. Let me guess. They have given exclusive media rights to those impartial news presenters Jacob Rees-Mogg, Philip Davies and Laura Kuennsburg
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    kle4 said:

    Would Sunak's statement really have been ruined by wearing a coat?

    An aid with an Umbrella.

    The people who have been paid to look after him have been total shit from the start.
    I think you're right- see also the speechwriters who send him out with dismal bilge to read. Question is- why? I can think of two reasons, neither of them encouraging.

    One is that there's nobody capable who is prepared to work for the Conservatives. All the bright young things who are meant to do this sort of thing are batting for the other team, so to speak.

    The other is that Rishi isn't able to get loyalty from his staff. Because he's Rishi.

    Those are both pretty dismal prospects... what am I missing?
    My theory would be, 4 PMs in quick succession, all appointing their own people drains the well of available talent - stretches talent thinly so you can hardly taste it?

    I recall Andy Coulson saying, when he joined Dave’s team, all the others were a different class than him, they all thought the same, making his different take on things and view of things all the more useful.
  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Sky News' political correspondent and crew are currently being FOLLOWED BY SECURITY around the circumference of the ExCel centre, to ensure he doesn't even get anywhere near the building where our glorious leader, Kim Jong Sunak, is launching his campaign for your vote. SHAMBLES.

    Hilarious stuff. Live comedy on Sky News.
    Spectacular. Sky News. LIVE at the PM's campaign launch. Being thrown out by security goons.

    Last time we had Boris hiding in a fridge from Piers Morgan. What fun can we expect this time? How about security forcing BBC News into a fridge live on air?
    I'm not joking now. They are seriously trying to make sure, with the Disney 100 exhibition going on in one of the halls, that they cannot get the Sunak / Mickey Mouse shot.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    edited May 22
    viewcode said:

    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    I've no idea what your link is pointing towards. American suits aren't quite right, and I'm sure you are aware of this.
    It's a reference to the West Wing episode "Two Cathedrals", where the President is caught in a storm and announces his campaign for a second term whilst soaking wet. A clip is below

    PB is chock full of political geeks and nerds who, depending on age, nationality or stance, obsessively quote from "The West Wing", "Yes Minister" or "The Thick Of It". The smarter ones tend to do "Star Trek", "Babylon 5" or Terry Pratchett. This causes the ingenues some anguish and are forced to quote from Twitter in lieu.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xme1Vrc2ow0
    Yes. I know. What I don't know is why the reply to my post was as it was.

    (Edit - happily M has replied, so I can find out)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Omnium said:

    Omnium said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @ayeshahazarika

    Honestly… the optics… for someone who really cares about his image & who loves instagram, this is such a bad look. What were his advisers thinking? Why didn’t they move it inside?


    'Soggy Sunak' isn't exactly the best kick-off to his campaign. On the other hand, maybe 'come rain or shine', 'he's a trouper' will play well with the demographic they're targetting.

    I imagine the 10-20 minutes before they called it would have made for a pretty decent real-time Thick of It episode.
    The odd thing is that a decent suit wouldn't look like that. He's a rich man. What on earth is he wearing?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    I've no idea what your link is pointing towards. American suits aren't quite right, and I'm sure you are aware of this.
    Look at the effect. There’s a certain kind of fool who thinks re-enacting their favourite moments from TV shows is a winner.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    Rishi Sunak has announced that Britain’s next general election will be held on July 4th. Whether the current prime minister’s decision is an act of political genius or lunacy, Britons should welcome it

    https://x.com/TheEconomist/status/1793372023210807447

    An old axiom of British politics is that the Conservative Party is ruthless in its pursuit of power. Lately it has seemed relentlessly focused on losing it. It has purged talented mps who did not toe the ideological line on Brexit, a cause that a majority of voters now think was wrong. In Boris Johnson, it picked a leader manifestly unsuited for high office. In Liz Truss, it installed the shortest-lived prime minister in British history and the person who shredded its reputation for economic competence. Now, after taking a long, hard look into the electoral abyss, it has gone ahead and jumped.

    https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/05/22/rishi-sunaks-election-surprise?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 36,099
    @mattgreencomedy
    Even when he’s dry he looks drenched (by the baleful stares of his colleagues behind him)


  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    Pro_Rata said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @sturdyAlex

    Sky News' political correspondent and crew are currently being FOLLOWED BY SECURITY around the circumference of the ExCel centre, to ensure he doesn't even get anywhere near the building where our glorious leader, Kim Jong Sunak, is launching his campaign for your vote. SHAMBLES.

    Hilarious stuff. Live comedy on Sky News.
    Spectacular. Sky News. LIVE at the PM's campaign launch. Being thrown out by security goons.

    Last time we had Boris hiding in a fridge from Piers Morgan. What fun can we expect this time? How about security forcing BBC News into a fridge live on air?
    I'm not joking now. They are seriously trying to make sure, with the Disney 100 exhibition going on in one of the halls, that they cannot get the Sunak / Mickey Mouse shot.
    Understandable. The Tories are spectacularly bad at politics. So of course they don't want Sunak photographed next to an inspirational and popular figure.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417

    Bray has been banned from the streets around Whitehall lol

    A couple of hours too late. Possibly a couple of years too late.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Unpopular said:

    EPG said:

    On the suit in the rain thing.

    Could it be that Sunak is a massive West Wing fan?

    Somehow that seems to fit.

    More Wet Wing.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Cathedrals
    With Jacob Rees-Mogg making a guest appearance as "Man swearing in Latin".
    I know how much fans of the show rave about this episode, and maybe I'm a philistine, but I thought that whole scene was a bit, as the youth might say, cringe.
    It was. Hence how doing this in real life looked.
This discussion has been closed.