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Shall he dwindle, peak, and pine? – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852

    Carnyx said:

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    That's the SNP in 1979 fallacy. Like pretending that Labour and the LDs had nothing to do with Mr Callaghan's fall.

    In rseality, every SNP MSP - and, indeed, every other MSP - gets to tell them. Even if it is just abstention.

    You have two voting blocks. And one swing voter.

    And as we all know, it is swing voters who decide elections.
    But who sets up that situation? Every voter in each block is just as responsible.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
    No, bring pharmacy staff in at 7.30am.
    As a once upon a time hospital pharmacist I was always mildly annoyed that we worked office hours.
    Except on Sundays.
    My current pharmacy students struggle to get to 9.15 lectures (even while living on campus!) so I’m not holding out much hope of 7.30 am starts!
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Women, eh!

    Mess with them at your peril.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    edited April 25
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
    The SLDs are led by the idiotic Alex Cole Hamilton, who would sell his own granny for a ministerial post.

    Now be fair, maybe his dear old gran would be happy to be sold to see her beloved grandson get a government issued chaffeur.
    He's certainly been tdrying to make sure he can drive as fast and as far as he can in Edinburgh when he gets it.

    https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/07/cole-hamiltons-special-dispensation-is-not-so-special-after-all/
  • Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 14,342

    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Most important thing is that another month has passed without the polling gap really changing.

    Quite.

    Starmer will be very happy to be running down the clock.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Most important thing is that another month has passed without the polling gap really changing.

    Quite.

    Starmer will be very happy to be running down the clock.
    I’ve been of the opinion for a while that nothing will change much until the election proper. Most people are not political geeks and there are no significant events to change things. If things DO change it will be late, but could not happen at all.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,250
    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
    No, bring pharmacy staff in at 7.30am.
    As a once upon a time hospital pharmacist I was always mildly annoyed that we worked office hours.
    Except on Sundays.
    My current pharmacy students struggle to get to 9.15 lectures (even while living on campus!) so I’m not holding out much hope of 7.30 am starts!
    Very aggravating. However student life isn’t the same as ‘real’! I seem to recall being in the pub by 6pm when a student but working on until after 7 when in the real world.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092

    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Most important thing is that another month has passed without the polling gap really changing.

    Quite.

    Starmer will be very happy to be running down the clock.
    Agreed, but once again I point out that polls prior to the election being called are a vote of approval in the present government. It is only when the election is called that voters actually start to choose.

    (yes, I know I'm annoying :) )
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
    No, bring pharmacy staff in at 7.30am.
    As a once upon a time hospital pharmacist I was always mildly annoyed that we worked office hours.
    Except on Sundays.
    My current pharmacy students struggle to get to 9.15 lectures (even while living on campus!) so I’m not holding out much hope of 7.30 am starts!
    Very aggravating. However student life isn’t the same as ‘real’! I seem to recall being in the pub by 6pm when a student but working on until after 7 when in the real world.
    Indeed. It does give me much scope for sarcasm as they drift in late.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,932

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Alister Jack has just creamed his underpants at the thought!
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,502

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    Was just trying to recall who said that, and IF it was "a Scotsman" OR "an Irishman" either being most apropos.

    As Lord Peter might say, well quoted.
    From memory the Scotsman in question is Lord Emsworth's gardener.
    Why not repeat one more time Waugh's wise and prophetic words on Wodehouse:

    Mr. Wodehouse's idyllic world can never stale. He will continue to release future generations from captivity that may be more irksome than our own.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,841
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
    Opinion here seems to be that Scottish Tories are not keen, either.

    But bear in mind the voting system is bent like Westminster, only in the opposite direction - it has a reverse effect from FPTP in terms of seats per vote.
    There are plainly risks for the Tories which are still in an unexpectedly favourable situation in Holyrood. But there are also upsides. A much weakened SNP in disarray would be much less of a threat to their Westminster seats, indeed a few SNP seats might even come into play.

    I also hesitate to keep repeating this but the financial situation of the SNP is also a consideration. Their priority is likely to be Holyrood. It might mean no campaign to talk of for Westminster if their finances were drained by a Scottish election.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
  • Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Doubt it. If a Scottish party throws its teddies out of the pram and doesn't turn up that doesn't stop everything like it does with the DUP. The rest just get on with it, including having an election if needed.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Foxy said:

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    It's an interestingly sudden rumour.

    Maybe Sunak is thinking that he has played a blinder this week.
    He was very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw according to the journos.

    Demob happy?
    Yours truly was once very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw to London.

    Because BA had promised to compensate me when I got to Heathrow, for misplacing my checked baggage for 4 days.

    Luckily I'd kept my business docs in my carry-on bag along with a shirt, socks & underwear; so missing luggage did NOT cost me anything in expenses (though did wash my laundry in a sink for what that was worth).

    Not sure IF the PM had as much to be upbeat about, but like you say he MUST be a glass-half-full kind of guy.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642

    Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Link(s) please.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,408

    Foxy said:

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    It's an interestingly sudden rumour.

    Maybe Sunak is thinking that he has played a blinder this week.
    He was very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw according to the journos.

    Demob happy?
    Yours truly was once very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw to London.

    Because BA had promised to compensate me when I got to Heathrow, for misplacing my checked baggage for 4 days.

    Luckily I'd kept my business docs in my carry-on bag along with a shirt, socks & underwear; so missing luggage did NOT cost me anything in expenses (though did wash my laundry in a sink for what that was worth).

    Not sure IF the PM had as much to be upbeat about, but like you say he MUST be a glass-half-full kind of guy.
    He ain't glass half full.
    He's decidedly pint sized.
  • Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Link(s) please.
    However, Connor Gillies (and Colin McKay from STV) saying he isn't resigning tomorrow.

    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1783602763827392664
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,440

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
    No, bring pharmacy staff in at 7.30am.
    As a once upon a time hospital pharmacist I was always mildly annoyed that we worked office hours.
    Except on Sundays.
    My current pharmacy students struggle to get to 9.15 lectures (even while living on campus!) so I’m not holding out much hope of 7.30 am starts!
    Very aggravating. However student life isn’t the same as ‘real’! I seem to recall being in the pub by 6pm when a student but working on until after 7 when in the real world.
    Indeed. It does give me much scope for sarcasm as they drift in late.
    Indeed; I hope that when they get into their pre-registration year they don’t have a supervisor like me!
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642

    Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Link(s) please.
    However, Connor Gillies (and Colin McKay from STV) saying he isn't resigning tomorrow.

    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1783602763827392664
    Cheers.

    Humza Yousaf is considering his position as first minister before a confidence vote caused by his decision to sack the Greens from government.

    A number of SNP sources said Yousaf’s future was in doubt as speculation intensified about whether he would remain in post after a chaotic day that saw his future essentially be left in Alex Salmond’s hands.

    Yousaf’s office cancelled at least one planned visit as even allies called into question the wisdom of ending the coalition agreement so suddenly.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/humza-yousaf-ends-snp-power-sharing-deal-with-greens-752756g33
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Sounds very unbelievable to me.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,845

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    "The United Kingdom is to be re-organised as the First Galactic Empire! For a safe and secure society!"
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Link(s) please.
    However, Connor Gillies (and Colin McKay from STV) saying he isn't resigning tomorrow.

    https://x.com/ConnorGillies/status/1783602763827392664
    Source close to First Minister Humza Yousaf tells @SkyNews he will not resign tomorrow despite the speculation.

    Unclear though whether a speech on independence will go ahead as planned on Friday.


    Not sure why it wouldn't really. I mean, people will presumably ask about rumours, but they'd do that regardless.
  • ExiledInScotlandExiledInScotland Posts: 1,529
    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Titled Malleable Scrotum or some such?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,502

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Provisional answer: I think it would require (emergency) Westminster legislation to do this.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,642

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Titled Malleable Scrotum or some such?
    So long as I get the prefix 'His Excellency' the title is irrelevant.
  • Andy_JS said:

    Various Scottish political types on Twitter starting rumours that Humza is resigning tomorrow.

    Sounds very unbelievable to me.
    Murdo Fraser was selling it, so always wise to DYOR.

    Then again, someone who drops a lot of ScotPol hints just saying tomorrow would be momentous, so could be more Operation Branchform.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
    Opinion here seems to be that Scottish Tories are not keen, either.

    But bear in mind the voting system is bent like Westminster, only in the opposite direction - it has a reverse effect from FPTP in terms of seats per vote.
    There are plainly risks for the Tories which are still in an unexpectedly favourable situation in Holyrood. But there are also upsides. A much weakened SNP in disarray would be much less of a threat to their Westminster seats, indeed a few SNP seats might even come into play.

    I also hesitate to keep repeating this but the financial situation of the SNP is also a consideration. Their priority is likely to be Holyrood. It might mean no campaign to talk of for Westminster if their finances were drained by a Scottish election.
    SNP could always try hitting up Scrooge McDuck.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,885

    Foxy said:

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    It's an interestingly sudden rumour.

    Maybe Sunak is thinking that he has played a blinder this week.
    He was very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw according to the journos.

    Demob happy?
    No, it's politics. If you're 20 points behind, the one message you can't give to your dwindling band of supporters is the notion you think you've lost as well. Whether he believes it or not privately, Sunak has to keep exuding optimism, keeping positive, stunts like going for a run in London are all part of this upbeat image he's trying to project.

    It's almost from the Boris playbook - even if you don't like the policies or the rest of the party, vote for me.

    He may well have a smile on his face when he concedes to Starmer having survived the recount at Richmond but only then will it be a genuine sense of relief.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Shhh. You’ll wake up Malc
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,932

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    The Screaming Capercaillies.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,678

    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Most important thing is that another month has passed without the polling gap really changing.

    Quite.

    Starmer will be very happy to be running down the clock.
    Well, it worked for Ed Miliband...
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,520
    ydoethur said:

    Another question:

    If there is an emergency Holyrood election, is the next election five years after the regular election or five years after that election?

    5 years after the regular election.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Re: JR-M, just how long does it take, to get from London to Edinburgh via sedan chair?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,678

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Titled Malleable Scrotum or some such?
    Are you suggesting he has jock itch?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,845
    Foxy said:

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Titled Malleable Scrotum or some such?
    Are you suggesting he has jock itch?
    Is this a shagger I see before me?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    What is known/likely Holyrood timeline?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 27,904

    Major IT outage at Sainsbury's this evening. I, and 1000s of others, can't check out from an online delivery order.

    Been over three hours now.

    Sainsbury's had the same problem a few weeks ago iirc.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,932

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Re: JR-M, just how long does it take, to get from London to Edinburgh via sedan chair?
    It depends on whether Avanti or Stagecoach are carrying it.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Foxy said:

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    Sunak will appoint either me or Jacob Rees-Mogg as the new Viceroy of Scotland.
    Titled Malleable Scrotum or some such?
    Are you suggesting he has jock itch?
    Shouldn't that be with a capital "J" (in the spirit of PB punctuational punditry),
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,520
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
    The quote that has just popped into my head is
    "A Yorkshireman is a Scotsman with every ounce of generosity squeezed out of him".
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    edited April 25

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
    The quote that has just popped into my head is
    "A Yorkshireman is a Scotsman with every ounce of generosity squeezed out of him".
    ...
  • What is known/likely Holyrood timeline?

    For scheduled election, or 'events, dear boy, events'?

    VONC due early/mid next week
    HY will be scrabbling around for support over the weekend
    Men in grey kilts may well tell him time's up
    Could quit Monday?

    Banter timeline could also serve up a Sturgeon re-arrest.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
    The quote that has just popped into my head is
    "A Yorkshireman is a Scotsman with every ounce of generosity squeezed out of him".
    Not fair. I once got a few extra chips with my fish supper at Whitby.
    With something like 25 fish and chip shops in the town I expect they are not short of chip supplies to be fair.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    Carnyx said:

    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
    The SLDs are led by the idiotic Alex Cole Hamilton, who would sell his own granny for a ministerial post.

    Now be fair, maybe his dear old gran would be happy to be sold to see her beloved grandson get a government issued chaffeur.
    He's certainly been tdrying to make sure he can drive as fast and as far as he can in Edinburgh when he gets it.

    https://theedinburghreporter.co.uk/2023/07/cole-hamiltons-special-dispensation-is-not-so-special-after-all/
    I am quite pleased to have told the man to fuck off in person.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,729

    ydoethur said:

    Another question:

    If there is an emergency Holyrood election, is the next election five years after the regular election or five years after that election?

    5 years after the regular election.
    Really? Blimey.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    Until desire for Independence itself notably drops off, which I don't think it has, I won't be celebrating.
  • I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    Very true, they were handed a massive opportunity with Brexit but Sturgeon had no idea what to do with it. Great at self-promo but not at governing. Or book keeping, apparently.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Groundskeeper Willie for SNP Leader!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6vDzf-wSbk
  • OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Tbf, they pissed loads of it away on a failed glass recycling scheme, thanks to brain donor Lorna Slater.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Must be really unobservant but haven't noticed a big 'respect your view' vibe over the years. In fact not even a teeny one.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,369
    kle4 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    Until desire for Independence itself notably drops off, which I don't think it has, I won't be celebrating.
    This is true. Perhaps the SNP will pass through this crisis tempered and strengthened, and the political situation may look very different in a couple of years.

    But even besides the independence question there's not much to show for the SNP's time in office.
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Tbf, they pissed loads of it away on a failed glass recycling scheme, thanks to brain donor Lorna Slater.
    Yeah, I'm not 100% sure how they fucked up something that was done successfully 50 years ago but it probably has something to do with Lorna Slater being bad at actual policy.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    How long have the higher rates been in use? Not that long surely. And it takes people time to move jobs, lives, houses etc.
    Time will tell, but I don’t think the result is clear just yet.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    What is known/likely Holyrood timeline?

    For scheduled election, or 'events, dear boy, events'?

    VONC due early/mid next week
    HY will be scrabbling around for support over the weekend
    Men in grey kilts may well tell him time's up
    Could quit Monday?

    Banter timeline could also serve up a Sturgeon re-arrest.
    Perhaps HY already got (most of) the gray-kilted men on board, before he went and Buted out the Greens?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,852
    edited April 25

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Tbf, they pissed loads of it away on a failed glass recycling scheme, thanks to brain donor Lorna Slater.
    Not glass, all kinds. GLass recycling and aluminium recycling are working fine already, generally.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559

    If the parties at Holyrood can't form a government or pass legislation is there provision for direct rule from London? It seems to work quite well in Northern Ireland on an intermittent basis.

    I suggest David Cameron.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    How long have the higher rates been in use? Not that long surely. And it takes people time to move jobs, lives, houses etc.
    Time will tell, but I don’t think the result is clear just yet.
    Six years since the first real changes were introduced (at the 150k mark afair).
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    edited April 25

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    How long have the higher rates been in use? Not that long surely. And it takes people time to move jobs, lives, houses etc.
    Time will tell, but I don’t think the result is clear just yet.
    2016 was when tax rates were devolved and the first increases followed fairly shortly after that. I didn't think it was that long ago either tbh, I think Covid is messing with my perception of time again. There was some research done recently on it.

    https://news.stv.tv/scotland/more-workers-moving-to-scotland-from-uk-than-leaving-after-snp-tax-rises-hmrc-finds
  • What is known/likely Holyrood timeline?

    For scheduled election, or 'events, dear boy, events'?

    VONC due early/mid next week
    HY will be scrabbling around for support over the weekend
    Men in grey kilts may well tell him time's up
    Could quit Monday?

    Banter timeline could also serve up a Sturgeon re-arrest.
    Perhaps HY already got (most of) the gray-kilted men on board, before he went and Buted out the Greens?
    I think you're crediting him with far more nous than he actually has.

    Margins are very tight, he's pissed off Fergus Ewing, La Sturge could be helping the Polis with their enquiries during the vote, only takes one or two people sitting on big majorities to say no to him and its Goodnight Alloa.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,978
    edited April 25

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    Sturgeon didn't make Brexit a wedge issue when she should have. Cosying up to the People's Vote & #FBPE mob when she could have quite simply said though I disagree with it, England has made its choice and Scotland has made a different one. It would have had the straightforward virtue of being stone cold true.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,451
    VONC Humza, bring in Kate Forbes. Very simple path to survival for the SNP - not sure they'll take it.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,090
    TimS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
    For the first six months of my employment in Edinburgh in 1961 I took the train from Berwick to Edinburgh and return every day

    Even in those days it was a good service
  • OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,589
    TimS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
    Not much in the way of Edinburgh-level amenities nearby either, not till you get to Newcastle.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,751

    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
    The quote that has just popped into my head is
    "A Yorkshireman is a Scotsman with every ounce of generosity squeezed out of him".
    In Wales, as I recall, it was the Cardies (natives of Cardiganshire), who were regarded in that light. No doubt, a grievous slur, although I wouldn't necessarily fancy my chances of cadging a fiver at the Lampeter sheep sales.
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,090
    OnboardG1 said:

    TimS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
    Not much in the way of Edinburgh-level amenities nearby either, not till you get to Newcastle.
    I lived in Berwick from the age of 9 to 17 and we had the excellent choice of going to either on a quick rail service

    Indeed I went to either St James Park or Easter Road on occasions when Berwick were playing away!!!!
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    Sturgeon didn't make Brexit a wedge issue when she should have. Cosying up to the People's Vote & #FBPE mob when she could have quite simply said though I disagree with it, England has made its choice and Scotland has made a different one. It would have had the simple virtue of being stone cold true.
    I found that really puzzling. It was just referred to like a grudge. And that felt like a clumsy mistake by her when she was normally quite astute (time will tell re.investigations) about political touchstones like that. A very clear, sad, disappointed, wipes tear from eye "We've drifted apart" would have been a lot more effective.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,751

    What is known/likely Holyrood timeline?

    For scheduled election, or 'events, dear boy, events'?

    VONC due early/mid next week
    HY will be scrabbling around for support over the weekend
    Men in grey kilts may well tell him time's up
    Could quit Monday?

    Banter timeline could also serve up a Sturgeon re-arrest.
    Perhaps HY already got (most of) the gray-kilted men on board, before he went and Buted out the Greens?
    I think you're crediting him with far more nous than he actually has.

    Margins are very tight, he's pissed off Fergus Ewing, La Sturge could be helping the Polis with their enquiries during the vote, only takes one or two people sitting on big majorities to say no to him and its Goodnight Alloa.
    Doubt that Fergus will be voting with the Greens. He'll be revelling in their departure.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
    @RyanJL

    Labour could just put this image on billboards around the country #bbcqt


  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
    @mikeysmith

    A thought. And I can't believe I'm having it.

    Did we consider checking if MPs could find Rwanda on a map before allowing them to vote on the bill? Might have saved some bother.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
    @mikeysmith

    Just so we're clear: Chris Philp is absolutely sure Rwanda is a safe country. He must have done, he voted through a bill that made that fact, for some reason, a British law.

    He's just not entirely sure if it's the same country as Congo or not.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,465

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Tbf, they pissed loads of it away on a failed glass recycling scheme, thanks to brain donor Lorna Slater.
    Had they previously just had a whisky drink, a vodka drink, a lager drink, and a cider drink?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,992
    @hugorifkind

    Heading to bed with a really warm, contented, happy-with-my-lot-in-life feeling about not being Chris Philp.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996

    TimS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
    For the first six months of my employment in Edinburgh in 1961 I took the train from Berwick to Edinburgh and return every day

    Even in those days it was a good service
    It’s 50 minutes to an hour, and Berwick’s basically escape to the country land. So if you want to move to a nice little coastal town and work from home or have a long commute it’s fine, but that’s only going to appeal to a small segment of those rich enough to worry about the tax differences.

    By contrast you can literally live in the suburbs of Basel, Geneva, Lugano / Milan, Maastricht etc etc and get on a tram or bus or cycle to a different country. You can pay New Jersey tax and go one stop on the subway into Manhattan, or work in Copenhagen and live across the Oresund bridge in Sweden.

    Options from Glasgow are even harder, to the point of being non-viable. So you either move family and job wholesale or stay put.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    A thought. And I can't believe I'm having it.

    Did we consider checking if MPs could find Rwanda on a map before allowing them to vote on the bill? Might have saved some bother.

    It can be hard to find places in Darkest Africa, I mean just look at the place

  • nico679nico679 Posts: 6,275
    edited April 25
    Yousafs only way to survive is to accept the list of demands from Salmond by way of Ash Regan.

    We know people like to cling to power but really this surely would be too much to stomach and would allow the opposition parties to have a field day .

    He really messed up today and has no one to blame but himself .

    So the stage is set for Kate Forbes who ironically might cause more problems for the opposition , that’s if she can overcome her position on certain social issues .

    I’m wondering whether the Tories are willing to accept this as an SNP recovery would dent Labour chances more than their own.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,996
    Scott_xP said:

    @mikeysmith

    Just so we're clear: Chris Philp is absolutely sure Rwanda is a safe country. He must have done, he voted through a bill that made that fact, for some reason, a British law.

    He's just not entirely sure if it's the same country as Congo or not.

    Wait till he finds out there are two Congos.
    (Two “congi”?)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    TimS said:

    TimS said:

    OnboardG1 said:

    I know some here strongly favour Scottish Independence - I respect your view but hope you now see how the SNP has blown it for the foreseeable future.

    The SNP had one job - to grow support for Independence by showing voters they could do better than Westminster. A more attractive economy? Nope. Better education? Nope. Better taxation rates? Nope. Better laws for a better Scotland? Nope. They had all that Barnett formula subsidy per head but still blew it.

    Yes. They could have built a 60-70% strong support for Independence on the back of making a success of Holyrood. Indeed, this appears to be the Sinn Fein strategy now that they have the role of First Minister at Stormont.

    But Sturgeon was all political game-playing and wedge-seeking. In the tenth year after the referendum it looks a lot like a wasted decade.
    What gets me that they proved that you can raise marginal tax rates and successfully boil the frog. People haven't rushed south and although there has been a small decrease in internal migration amongst the highest earners the SNP have gotten away with pulling an extra £400m out of the pockets of the burghers without them squeaking. It's what every left wing party loves to see. And they've done fuck all with it apart from throwing it at broken ferries.
    Geography helps in that respect. Tax arbitrage exerts a force. Geographical friction acts as a brake.

    The Southern uplands and the fact the borders are largely bereft of major settlements means if you’re living and working in Edinburgh and want to cut your tax bill you can’t just hop a few miles south on a fast road or the train and live in an English suburb.

    Contrast with the various Swiss and Benelux borders where commuter arbitrage is easy.
    For the first six months of my employment in Edinburgh in 1961 I took the train from Berwick to Edinburgh and return every day

    Even in those days it was a good service
    It’s 50 minutes to an hour, and Berwick’s basically escape to the country land. So if you want to move to a nice little coastal town and work from home or have a long commute it’s fine, but that’s only going to appeal to a small segment of those rich enough to worry about the tax differences.

    By contrast you can literally live in the suburbs of Basel, Geneva, Lugano / Milan, Maastricht etc etc and get on a tram or bus or cycle to a different country. You can pay New Jersey tax and go one stop on the subway into Manhattan, or work in Copenhagen and live across the Oresund bridge in Sweden.

    Options from Glasgow are even harder, to the point of being non-viable. So you either move family and job wholesale or stay put.
    I had an delivery from Ikea today. Despite it only being a few miles 'as the crow flies'. 50-60 minutes each way by bus, which is erratic enough to have to factor in being 15-20 minutes early at the stop. So a good 1.5hrs each way.

    And the bus cost more than the delivery did.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited April 25
    If Yousaf leaves office straightaway as FM, he might as well do the same with the SNP leadership. In that case surely the obvious thing would be for Keith Brown to take over as caretaker in both positions while the fannying about is engaged in during the 28 days. And then - an SGE!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092
    Am I permitted to be smug over that fact that I knew there are two countries called (variants on) Congo? See also two Dominicas.
  • YokesYokes Posts: 1,332
    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    rcs1000 said:
    "Vampire facial" is the common name for a platelet-rich plasma microneedling procedure. In this treatment, a patient's blood is drawn, spun down to separate out plasma from blood cells, and the platelet-rich plasma is then injected into the face with microneedles. It's claimed—with little evidence—that it can rejuvenate and improve the look of skin, and got notable promotions from celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Kim Kardashian.

    I know many legitimately useful medical procedures can sound horrifying when described in a clinical manner, but who even comes up with the ideas for these things? Haven't all the Nazi doctors died by now?
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092
    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    "Vampire facial" is the common name for a platelet-rich plasma microneedling procedure. In this treatment, a patient's blood is drawn, spun down to separate out plasma from blood cells, and the platelet-rich plasma is then injected into the face with microneedles. It's claimed—with little evidence—that it can rejuvenate and improve the look of skin, and got notable promotions from celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Kim Kardashian.

    I know many legitimately useful medical procedures can sound horrifying when described in a clinical manner, but who even comes up with the ideas for these things? Haven't all the Nazi doctors died by now?
    If you want nightmares, google why chainsaws were invented. It's not to cut down trees.
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    Stargate, I think.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    edited April 25
    Even bright people can make silly errors, and many MPs are actually very able people, with limited opportunity to show it in the limited and high pressure environments we see snippets of.

    I don't think that is what this was with Philp.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,092
    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    It's a Star Wars reference. Not Star Trek. Different franchise, similar name.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    RobD said:

    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    Stargate, I think.
    Babylon Galactica, in fact.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,376
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    Stargate, I think.
    Babylon Galactica, in fact.
    Galaxy Quest....
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    viewcode said:

    kle4 said:

    rcs1000 said:
    "Vampire facial" is the common name for a platelet-rich plasma microneedling procedure. In this treatment, a patient's blood is drawn, spun down to separate out plasma from blood cells, and the platelet-rich plasma is then injected into the face with microneedles. It's claimed—with little evidence—that it can rejuvenate and improve the look of skin, and got notable promotions from celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow and Kim Kardashian.

    I know many legitimately useful medical procedures can sound horrifying when described in a clinical manner, but who even comes up with the ideas for these things? Haven't all the Nazi doctors died by now?
    If you want nightmares, google why chainsaws were invented. It's not to cut down trees.
    You weren't kidding. Jesus!
  • RobDRobD Posts: 59,930
    eek said:

    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    Stargate, I think.
    Babylon Galactica, in fact.
    Galaxy Quest....
    Ah, yes, “May the force live long with you”
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,559
    "Feminism has left middle-aged women like me single, childless and depressed
    We were taught to prioritise our careers over marriage – and now we are paying for it
    Petronella Wyatt"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/04/25/feminism-has-failed-women-career-no-family-thatcher/
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    kle4 said:

    RobD said:

    Yokes said:

    'Humza Yousaf’s strategy to abrogate the Bute House Agreement would be as successful a strategy as Emperor Palpatine decision to allow the Rebel Alliance to know the location of the second Death Star.'

    What? Is that a Star Trek reference?

    Stargate, I think.
    Babylon Galactica, in fact.
    Wasn't it an episode in The Starlost?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,103
    Andy_JS said:

    "Feminism has left middle-aged women like me single, childless and depressed
    We were taught to prioritise our careers over marriage – and now we are paying for it
    Petronella Wyatt"

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/columnists/2024/04/25/feminism-has-failed-women-career-no-family-thatcher/

    Many feminists are married, so that seems like a stretch.
This discussion has been closed.