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Shall he dwindle, peak, and pine? – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 12,213
edited May 12 in General
Shall he dwindle, peak, and pine? – politicalbetting.com

Ash Regan, who holds decisive vote, has written to Yousaf with a series of demands around independence and women’s rightsAlex Salmond tells Times Radio: “If I were Humza Yousaf, I’d get drafting a very favourable answer, otherwise he’s going to be known as ‘Humza the Brief’" https://t.co/GVL6QNTWwN

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Though his bark be tempest tossed
    Still it is - not yet - quite lost.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    ydoethur said:

    Though his bark be tempest tossed
    Still it is - not yet - quite lost.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle Macbeth/Shakespeare reference.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    You were a transport minister and the trains were never on time, when you were justice secretary the police were stretched to breaking point, and now as health minister we've got record high waiting times,

    Kate Forbes must be enjoying this...not least, that she gets to be magnanimous in public...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    ydoethur said:

    Though his bark be tempest tossed
    Still it is - not yet - quite lost.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle Macbeth/Shakespeare reference.
    Subtle? Subtle?

    It was as subtle as a rat without a tail...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Donald Trump's Pecker is Leaking . . .

    NY Post - Ex-National Enquirer boss expected to detail scheme to bury story from Playboy Playmate: Trump trial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ0arpisr7Q
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Donald Trump's Pecker is Leaking . . .

    NY Post - Ex-National Enquirer boss expected to detail scheme to bury story from Playboy Playmate: Trump trial
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ0arpisr7Q

    Trump fiddled through Pecker.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited April 25
    No one has mentioned any numbers, so SEVENTH.

    Would thou wert clean enough to spit upon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Sir Humphrey once said the National staging a production of the Comedy of Errors in No. 10 was better than setting Macbeth in No. 10.

    The SNP seem to be going for the double here...
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Nicola Sturgeon as Hecate?

    And I, the mistress of your charms,
    The close contriver of all harms,
    Was never called to bear my part
    Or show the glory of our art?
    And which is worse, all you have done
    Hath been but for a wayward son,
    Spiteful and wrathful, who, as others do,
    Loves for his own ends, not for you.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    ydoethur said:

    Though his bark be tempest tossed
    Still it is - not yet - quite lost.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle Macbeth/Shakespeare reference.
    What bloody man is that?
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948
    "Ash Regan MSP
    @AshReganALBA

    Thank you for your incredible strength and support for me and many women and girls. Some react to storm clouds; interestingly, women often make the weather."

    In reply to JK Rowling.

    https://twitter.com/AshReganALBA/status/1783571332640207181
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,831
    edited April 25
    Anyone who makes demands as suggested should be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Anyone who makes demands as suggested shoukd be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?

    It was the dementia tax, actually.

    But - actually - Yousaf can't afford to do that. He is totally stuck and it's entirely his own fault.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    Anyone who makes demands as suggested should be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?

    You rarely get a chance to leverage something, no politician is going to miss out on it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    ydoethur said:

    Though his bark be tempest tossed
    Still it is - not yet - quite lost.

    Yay, somebody spotted my subtle Macbeth/Shakespeare reference.
    What bloody man is that?
    Thou canst not say I did it!
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058
    Caught by the curse of the new thread!

    malcolmg said:

    ydoethur said:

    When Richard Neville, Earl of Warwick, made an alliance with Margaret d'Anjou in 1470 she forced him to grovel in front of her for fifteen solid minutes on a stone-cold (literally, as it consisted of flagstones) floor while apologising for all his past misdeeds towards her and her husband before she accepted him.

    I wonder if Ash Regan is feeling vindictive?

    Hopefully , her shopping list will not be short
    It should be the antithesis of all the policies that the Greens inflicted on Scotland as a result of the Bute House agreement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ash Regan MSP
    @AshReganALBA

    Thank you for your incredible strength and support for me and many women and girls. Some react to storm clouds; interestingly, women often make the weather."

    In reply to JK Rowling.

    https://twitter.com/AshReganALBA/status/1783571332640207181

    Hilarious. I hope Ash Regan makes Humza Yousaf turn WHITE!!! - with fright
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    We've had enough excitement just with the agreement collapsing, I doubt we'll be fortunate enough to have even more.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    ydoethur said:

    For maximum popcorn effect:

    Yousaf concedes every single one of Regan's demands;

    Sturgeon is then charged on the day of the vote and can't attend, so he loses anyway.

    Hard to predict these things, but given the length of the investigation it does seem odd why not arrest everyone at the same time if they were going to arrest multiple people. I mean, what would a few more weeks or months be at this point?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who makes demands as suggested shoukd be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?

    It was the dementia tax, actually.

    But - actually - Yousaf can't afford to do that. He is totally stuck and it's entirely his own fault.
    Entirely his fault? OK, he's handled the last couple of months with the sophistication of a hamster in an escape room.

    But a lot of his problems are just because he has been left holding the ticking parcel when the music stopped. A different version of this fiasco would have happened under Regan or Forbes. Maybe even under Sturgeon.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991
    ydoethur said:

    For maximum popcorn effect:

    Yousaf concedes every single one of Regan's demands;

    Sturgeon is then charged on the day of the vote and can't attend, so he loses anyway.

    Then a Holyrood election is called and a day later Rishi calls the UK GE. Both coincide with the US presidential.

    The UK media would have a melt-down.

    Or just cover the US election. One of the two.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    ohnotnow said:

    ydoethur said:

    For maximum popcorn effect:

    Yousaf concedes every single one of Regan's demands;

    Sturgeon is then charged on the day of the vote and can't attend, so he loses anyway.

    Then a Holyrood election is called and a day later Rishi calls the UK GE. Both coincide with the US presidential.

    The UK media would have a melt-down.

    Or just cover the US election. One of the two.
    One of tdhe three, you mean?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991
    Carnyx said:

    ohnotnow said:

    ydoethur said:

    For maximum popcorn effect:

    Yousaf concedes every single one of Regan's demands;

    Sturgeon is then charged on the day of the vote and can't attend, so he loses anyway.

    Then a Holyrood election is called and a day later Rishi calls the UK GE. Both coincide with the US presidential.

    The UK media would have a melt-down.

    Or just cover the US election. One of the two.
    One of tdhe three, you mean?
    I was assuming they wouldn't cover the Holyrood election, as per.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    edited April 25
    I see there’s a new cohort of graduates from the Raab school of political geography:

    https://x.com/stephspyro/status/1783585417243107626?s=46
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,986

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    Another question:

    If there is an emergency Holyrood election, is the next election five years after the regular election or five years after that election?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    edited April 25
    ohnotnow said:



    ... Because otherwise they were going to sweep to victory? Maybe even gain a council seat somewhere?

    Let's not get carried away.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Andy_JS said:

    "Ash Regan MSP
    @AshReganALBA

    Thank you for your incredible strength and support for me and many women and girls. Some react to storm clouds; interestingly, women often make the weather."

    In reply to JK Rowling.

    https://twitter.com/AshReganALBA/status/1783571332640207181

    Witches. Well known Essex phenomenon!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122
    ohnotnow said:


    Alba is fucked if it brings down an SNP govt.
    ... Because otherwise they were going to sweep to victory? Maybe even gain a council seat somewhere?

    A GE might not do Ash Regan any favours either.

    It's Scotterdammerung...
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058
    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    The best bet for Alba could be to vote against Yousaf in a VONC against him, so he would need to resign, but vote with the SNP in a VONC against the SNP.

    Re: your post at 9.15 - there would be an election in 2026 even if there was an election in 2024.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146

    Andy_JS said:

    "Ash Regan MSP
    @AshReganALBA

    Thank you for your incredible strength and support for me and many women and girls. Some react to storm clouds; interestingly, women often make the weather."

    In reply to JK Rowling.

    https://twitter.com/AshReganALBA/status/1783571332640207181

    Witches. Well known Essex phenomenon!
    The unelected patting each other on the back, lovely.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    edited April 25
    Foxy said:

    ohnotnow said:


    Alba is fucked if it brings down an SNP govt.

    ... Because otherwise they were going to sweep to victory? Maybe even gain a council seat somewhere?

    A GE might not do Ash Regan any favours either.

    It's Scotterdammerung...
    There's a reason why Mutually Assured Destruction is known by its acronym.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

  • Pro_RataPro_Rata Posts: 5,352
    ydoethur said:

    Another question:

    If there is an emergency Holyrood election, is the next election five years after the regular election or five years after that election?

    If it is like FTPA rules, I'd expect it to be reset to May, meaning May 2029, but I don't know.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,146
    ydoethur said:

    Another question:

    If there is an emergency Holyrood election, is the next election five years after the regular election or five years after that election?

    It would run to the regular election date, ie c.2 years in this case.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    The best bet for Alba could be to vote against Yousaf in a VONC against him, so he would need to resign, but vote with the SNP in a VONC against the SNP.

    Re: your post at 9.15 - there would be an election in 2026 even if there was an election in 2024.
    Thanks.
  • CleitophonCleitophon Posts: 489
    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Yougov is up 2% too to 25% lead.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    edited April 25
    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    The problem with this theory of an interim FM is that that person would need the approval of the Parliament as well. And they wouldn't have the benefit of the casting vote on that. If their interim candidate was rejected the 28 days will continue to tick.

    The other thing that occurred to me was that if any MSP managed to get themselves charged and felt the need to stand down even Regan would not be able to save the SNP government. Which is the reason that we have had this nonsense of a coalition throughout. Its just too tight.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    Major IT outage at Sainsbury's this evening. I, and 1000s of others, can't check out from an online delivery order.

    Been over three hours now.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
    I'll steal that as well!... :)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    edited April 25

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who makes demands as suggested shoukd be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?

    It was the dementia tax, actually.

    But - actually - Yousaf can't afford to do that. He is totally stuck and it's entirely his own fault.
    Entirely his fault? OK, he's handled the last couple of months with the sophistication of a hamster in an escape room.

    But a lot of his problems are just because he has been left holding the ticking parcel when the music stopped. A different version of this fiasco would have happened under Regan or Forbes. Maybe even under Sturgeon.
    I for one still believe Sturgeon quitting and what followed with the legal troubles was a complete coincidence .
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    Well, of course. But they have a particular hatred for those in the same party as themselves.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    This is interesting. Even Telegraph readers favour Labour...


  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721
    edited April 25

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
    If there's an election now the Scottish Tories will:

    A) lose seats
    B ) lose second place.

    It is not in their interests for there to be an election. This may be why they're only VONC the FM not the whole government.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    stodge said:

    The latest survation large sample poll is poison to the tories.

    Up from 19% to 21% lead to labour.

    Very little change from last month. LAB +1, CON -1, all others unchanged. The swing from Conservative to Labour is around 16%.
    Most important thing is that another month has passed without the polling gap really changing.

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
    Opinion here seems to be that Scottish Tories are not keen, either.

    But bear in mind the voting system is bent like Westminster, only in the opposite direction - it has a reverse effect from FPTP in terms of seats per vote.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    Could be worse.

    Could have been asking about the national education system.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
    I'll steal that as well!... :)
    I also came up with 'Thistle do nicely for Starmer' and I've got one ready for election night that will outdo all of them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    The problem with this theory of an interim FM is that that person would need the approval of the Parliament as well. And they wouldn't have the benefit of the casting vote on that. If their interim candidate was rejected the 28 days will continue to tick.

    The other thing that occurred to me was that if any MSP managed to get themselves charged and felt the need to stand down even Regan would not be able to save the SNP government. Which is the reason that we have had this nonsense of a coalition throughout. Its just too tight.

    Which makes a lot of sense, esp. as you are on the ground, or up the glen, or something like that.

    My point is, might the tightness of the numbers might itself offer a way out - for a wee while anyway. But your argument probably makes more sense the closer you get to the Heart of Midlothian.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,880
    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
    I'll steal that as well!... :)
    I also came up with 'Thistle do nicely for Starmer' and I've got one ready for election night that will outdo all of them.
    SNP blown down?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449
    edited April 25

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
    I'll steal that as well!... :)
    I also came up with 'Thistle do nicely for Starmer' and I've got one ready for election night that will outdo all of them.
    Are you sure you will be able to sit on it for that long?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    Is there a typo in 'stuff'?
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    I think that's a general gripe against the existence of cliches.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,721

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    The odds on an election being called in the next week rise steeply, on the grounds she's never yet been right on any issue.

    Except far right.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    ydoethur said:

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    Could be worse.

    Could have been asking about the national education system.
    Labour HQ servers can only cope with some much bile at one sitting.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    One day, perhaps, all four nations will have a party which is competitive in each.

    More likely there won't be four nations before that happens.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861
    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Yes. Separate out a few questions. (1) Who wants to get rid of the current SNP leader (2) Who wants a Holyrood election by June/July
    (3) To what extent does anyone know what they are doing.

    The motion is against the leader not the Scottish government. So the evidence thus far is that no-one wants an early election, and so that won't happen unless they all act stupidly. Which they might.

    The likely result: 50/50 chance that Yousaf will survive for now. 90% chance there won't be an early election. 40% chance we shall end up with K Forbes as leader, which event would shift the dynamics of Scottish and UK politics bigly.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    kle4 said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    I think that's a general gripe against the existence of cliches.
    Well, they certainly give me a grievance!
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Foxy said:

    ...It's Scotterdammerung...

    I'm stealing that. :)

    Ahem, Alastair Meeks came up with that in 2015.

    I came up with Ajockalypse Now at the same time.
    I'll steal that as well!... :)
    I also came up with 'Thistle do nicely for Starmer' and I've got one ready for election night that will outdo all of them.
    Are you sure you will be able to sit on it for that long?
    Yes, it can only work on election night.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    When would they not be thrown to the wolves? As she has long complained the mighty Boris is not here to save them.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,682

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,122

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    It's an interestingly sudden rumour.

    Maybe Sunak is thinking that he has played a blinder this week.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390

    He's going to be inundated...
    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    I genuinely don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Feedback loops are good, and AI can process the results in a way that makes sense. However Streeting will be not in charge of hospitals (the trees), he will be in charge of the NHSes and health (the wood), and the skillset is different.

    There once was a general (I think it was Westmoreland) who got involved with a supply depot, complaining about a thing going missing. This was held against him, because minutae like that is not for his level.

    And, as I have repeatedly pointed out, the NHS will have to expand to cope with the death wave as the Boomers die. I really don't think he understands this.
  • CatManCatMan Posts: 3,067

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    So she's right whatever happens.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Carnyx said:

    ydoethur said:

    Ok, so let's ask this question:

    If he loses, what then?

    Presumably the SNP leave him in place while electing a new leader, which would I imagine have to be one of Robertson or Forbes.

    They have to get that done in 28 days and try to put forward their new leader as a candidate.

    But - it is hard to imagine either will be more acceptable to the Greens than Yousaf. Robertson is also tainted by association with Sturgeon and Forbes' social views alienate much of her own party.

    So is there any realistic chance of one of them getting the 65 votes needed?

    They could of course try to install Keith Brown, Depute Leader, as FM and wait a few months for everything to cool down. But, leaving aside whether he'd have the votes either, that's only really delaying the issue.

    This looks a nasty mess.

    Looking from afar, a fine mess (in one sense) for sure.

    However, re: numbers, don't ALL of the parties in & of (if not always for) Scotland have some history of defections and defectors, quasi en-mass or semi-individual (also visa-versa)?

    Meaning that it's possible, if less-than-inevitable, for current govt. to win over one or more (current) opposition MSPs. In theory anyway.

    Factor to consider: degree that ALL parties are ready AND willing to hold a Scottish snap election?

    Reckon that SNP and Greens are NOT over-eager, risking significant seat loses even (or because of?) the (relative) proportionality of the electoral system. Whereas Scottish Labour and Conservatives might well welcome opportunity to not only gain seats at Holyrood, but to also to use such gains as arguments in their favor all across Great Britain in the upcoming Westminster GE.

    Anyway you slice it, very interesting for punters and/or psephologists!
    Opinion here seems to be that Scottish Tories are not keen, either.

    But bear in mind the voting system is bent like Westminster, only in the opposite direction - it has a reverse effect from FPTP in terms of seats per vote.
    What I meant to say (and should have) is that Tories in Scotland have no where to go but up, thus giving Conservatives an uptick and fillip (however limited & brief) with media, pundits, donors, activists and (lest we forget) swing voters including disenchanted and/or former Tory voters, both right AND center.

    In theory anyway. Perhaps maybe?
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861
    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    That's the SNP in 1979 fallacy. Like pretending that Labour and the LDs had nothing to do with Mr Callaghan's fall.

    In rseality, every SNP MSP - and, indeed, every other MSP - gets to tell them. Even if it is just abstention.

  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    algarkirk said:

    Carnyx said:

    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    No wonder they have a grievance, the number of times PBers come up with that as if it was astoundingly original.
    Not really. It is a truth universally acknowledged that, as Lord Peter Wimsey comments, the use of quotations by others saves the trouble of original thought.
    Unless it is in Latin when one demonstrates one's own learnedness and fitness to be Prime Minister.
  • AugustusCarp2AugustusCarp2 Posts: 233
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Carnyx said:

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    That's the SNP in 1979 fallacy. Like pretending that Labour and the LDs had nothing to do with Mr Callaghan's fall.

    In rseality, every SNP MSP - and, indeed, every other MSP - gets to tell them. Even if it is just abstention.

    Whilst true, the straw that breaks the camel's back is the straw that gets noticed and the book deal.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058
    kle4 said:

    ydoethur said:

    Anyone who makes demands as suggested shoukd be told to fuck right off.....How much did May cost us in demands from N I.?

    It was the dementia tax, actually.

    But - actually - Yousaf can't afford to do that. He is totally stuck and it's entirely his own fault.
    Entirely his fault? OK, he's handled the last couple of months with the sophistication of a hamster in an escape room.

    But a lot of his problems are just because he has been left holding the ticking parcel when the music stopped. A different version of this fiasco would have happened under Regan or Forbes. Maybe even under Sturgeon.
    I for one still believe Sturgeon quitting and what followed with the legal troubles was a complete coincidence .
    I have the Forth Bridge to sell you. £5. Buyer collects.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,963
    .

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    Blimey. Hadn't realised that Angela Rayner was that powerful. Throw the Words of Dorries across the dispatch box and within days the entire government collapses.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    viewcode said:

    He's going to be inundated...
    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    I genuinely don't know if this is a good thing or a bad thing. Feedback loops are good, and AI can process the results in a way that makes sense. However Streeting will be not in charge of hospitals (the trees), he will be in charge of the NHSes and health (the wood), and the skillset is different.

    There once was a general (I think it was Westmoreland) who got involved with a supply depot, complaining about a thing going missing. This was held against him, because minutae like that is not for his level.

    And, as I have repeatedly pointed out, the NHS will have to expand to cope with the death wave as the Boomers die. I really don't think he understands this.
    Nor sure it's going to be the death wave that's the challenge. The almost dead wave is the challenge.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
    The first lesson people should learn from politics is that no one learns any lessons.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,121
    Foxy said:

    Rt Hon Nadine Dorries
    @NadineDorries
    I’m putting the odds on a GE being called tomorrow or next week at 50%

    That’s about 250 Con MPs being thrown to the wolves - if I’m right, of course.

    https://twitter.com/NadineDorries/status/1783546081524990241

    It's an interestingly sudden rumour.

    Maybe Sunak is thinking that he has played a blinder this week.
    He was very upbeat on the plane from Warsaw according to the journos.

    Demob happy?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    edited April 25
    viewcode said:

    Carnyx said:

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    That's the SNP in 1979 fallacy. Like pretending that Labour and the LDs had nothing to do with Mr Callaghan's fall.

    In rseality, every SNP MSP - and, indeed, every other MSP - gets to tell them. Even if it is just abstention.

    Whilst true, the straw that breaks the camel's back is the straw that gets noticed and the book deal.
    On that logic, it's the last person to stroll into the voting lobby, or rather (at Westminster) press the button, that counts.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 5,058
    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    A coalition involving the Labour and the Lib Dems wouldn’t be as toxic at Holyrood as it would be at Westminster. I still expect a Lab Lib Green government after the next Holyrood election, whenever it might be.
  • Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
    The SLDs are led by the idiotic Alex Cole Hamilton, who would sell his own granny for a ministerial post.

  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    "LDs have learnt their lesson from the past."

    I very much doubt that.
    The SLDs are led by the idiotic Alex Cole Hamilton, who would sell his own granny for a ministerial post.

    Now be fair, maybe his dear old gran would be happy to be sold to see her beloved grandson get a government issued chaffeur.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    He's going to be inundated...



    Wes Streeting MP
    @wesstreeting
    ·
    2h
    Singapore General Hospital has a programme called Get Rid Of Stupid Stuff.

    I want to hear from NHS staff about the stupid stuff that wastes your time, patients’ time, and taxpayers’ pounds.

    Let me know how you think we can deliver a better NHS here:

    https://twitter.com/wesstreeting/status/1783562443798553030

    It’s a while ago, but when I was receiving chemotherapy as an outpatient I had one appointment at 9 am. Sadly the treatment had to be made up fresh, and took an hour or so to do, so I didn’t get the treatment until 10.30. Waste of my time, took up space in the ward for an extra 1h and 30m. A better system would realise that the chemo would never be ready at 9.
    No, bring pharmacy staff in at 7.30am.
    As a once upon a time hospital pharmacist I was always mildly annoyed that we worked office hours.
    Except on Sundays.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    A coalition involving the Labour and the Lib Dems wouldn’t be as toxic at Holyrood as it would be at Westminster. I still expect a Lab Lib Green government after the next Holyrood election, whenever it might be.
    Well, they'll get the trans legislation throuigh, that's for sure, given Slab abd SLD support.

    The interesting issues however include Mr Cole-Hamilton's support for Morningside tractors, and SKS's policymaking down in London which might not go down well with the Greens. But who's to say what he will do once he's PM?
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167
    Carnyx said:

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    That's the SNP in 1979 fallacy. Like pretending that Labour and the LDs had nothing to do with Mr Callaghan's fall.

    In rseality, every SNP MSP - and, indeed, every other MSP - gets to tell them. Even if it is just abstention.

    You have two voting blocks. And one swing voter.

    And as we all know, it is swing voters who decide elections.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,948

    So basically Ash gets to tell the SNP who the next First Minister will be.

    Isn't democracy a wonderful thing.

    Couldn't have happened to a nicer bunch.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,167

    Carnyx said:

    HYUFD said:

    After today's events looks like Labour are heading back to power at Westminster and Holyrood for the first time since 2010. Holding still power in Wales they will then govern all 3 home nations of GB and the UK again

    Problem is, Labour and the LDs\ fiddled Holyrood so no party could dominate ie win outright. Alex Salmond disproved that, but it is still largely true. Labour would be doing very well to govern Scotland in other than a minority, or a coalition with the Scottish Greens. Can't see them doing it with the Tories, and the LDs have learnt their lesson fromt he past.
    A coalition involving the Labour and the Lib Dems wouldn’t be as toxic at Holyrood as it would be at Westminster. I still expect a Lab Lib Green government after the next Holyrood election, whenever it might be.
    A traffic light coalition.

    How's that for another cliché?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    algarkirk said:

    From a distance...

    Is it a reasonable working assumption that every Scottish politician hates and despises every other Scottish politician?

    It's extraordinary how frequently P.G. Wodehouse is relevant to Scottish politics:

    “It is never difficult to distinguish between with a Scotsman with a grievance and a ray of sunshine.”
    Blandings Castle
    Was just trying to recall who said that, and IF it was "a Scotsman" OR "an Irishman" either being most apropos.

    As Lord Peter might say, well quoted.
This discussion has been closed.