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  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    They usually serve their cider in ceramic cups and weirdly it tastes “right” out of them. I’ve got a load of the cups, like handleless shallow tea cups or bowls I’m not a huge cider fan but make an exception when in Brittany - usually works best though before lunch for some reason.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,997
    Waterfall said:


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Part of the reason that the Germans went into WWI, was the runaway expansion of the Russian economy before the war.

    They thought that they had to fight now - since in a decade they would be facing a vastly superior foe.

    This economic transformation of Russia was lost in the revolution and mostly forgotten today.
    Amazing to think in the early 20th century the russian stock market was regarded as a good bet. Shows how things can change.
    Shame that the Russian elites got left in charge though, and decided to take a different path. Could easily have been up there with China and USA, but instead turned into a hellhole first of communism then of unregulated capitalism, and finally a pariah courty to the rest of the world, up there with North Korea and Iran.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,568
    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    Can you speak French well?
    I’m good at shrugging and over gesturing which pretty much gets you halfway in most situations

    Not so good on actual words and stuff

    Apparently I have a convincing accent despite not actually speaking much French. I think it comes from years of watching them speak. So I can kind of copy how they do it just not what exactly they do
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,861
    edited April 22
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Weymouth is the place and cider the drink according to Hardy in uncharacteristically cheery mood:

    Sweet cyder is a great thing,
    A great thing to me,
    Spinning down to Weymouth town
    By Ridgway thirstily,
    And maid and mistress summoning
    Who tend the hostelry:
    O cyder is a great thing,
    A great thing to me!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Seattle Times - WA 6th District campaign to replace Derek Kilmer takes a competitive turn

    Congressman Derek Kilmer’s retirement announcement in November caught a lot of people off guard — he’s only 50, had easily won reelection five times and had already raised more than $1.4 million for a campaign. One person not surprised, however, was Hilary Franz, Washington’s two-term public lands commissioner who was then running for governor.

    Kilmer had called Franz to give her a heads up that he would not seek reelection to the 6th District, and to recruit her.

    “I am looking for a leader to replace me that knows the issues of this district,” Franz said Kilmer told her. The day after Kilmer’s announcement, Franz dropped her gubernatorial run and launched a congressional campaign to succeed Kilmer. He immediately endorsed her.

    But what could have turned into a coronation now has the looks of a competitive race, with three veteran state officials vying for the seat representing the Olympic and Kitsap peninsulas in the U.S. House.

    Franz, a Democrat, has opened up an early fundraising lead. But state Sen. Emily Randall, also a Democrat, has collected more high-profile endorsements from the state’s congressional delegation, indicating a split among the Democratic establishment. Republican state Sen. Drew MacEwen lags in fundraising but says he’s confident he can flip the seat, just as he previously won open state House and state Senate seats that had been held by Democrats.

    The seat has been in Democratic hands for the last 60 years.

    Other candidates could still emerge before the May 10 filing deadline. The top two candidates in the August primary, regardless of party, advance to November’s general election. . . .

    SSI - Note that IMHO

    > Derek Kilmer's own claims as "a leader" are somewhat suspect; don't recall ANYTHING he's done in Congress, let alone led the way on.

    > Hilary Franz is typical politico show pony NOT a work horse; sorta like Kilmer only more so.

    > Emily Randall would be MY choice IF yours truly was a 6th District voter; she's actually got some there there.

    > Drew MacEwen "flipped" a state senate seat previously held by two strictly titular Democrats who voted consistently with Republicans, in district strongly trending Republican

    > Enough GOP votes in the congressional district to put DMcE in the primary Top Two advancing to the general election; thus real contest this August will be between Franz and Randall; personally think that Randall's class will best Franz's whatever.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    Can you speak French well?
    I’m good at shrugging and over gesturing which pretty much gets you halfway in most situations

    Not so good on actual words and stuff

    Apparently I have a convincing accent despite not actually speaking much French. I think it comes from years of watching them speak. So I can kind of copy how they do it just not what exactly they do
    Sounds like you're ready for a crack at Brezhoneg.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    edited April 22
    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.
    Breton cider is, in my experience, the opposite of 'rough'. Most regional alcoholic drinks which people enthusiastically recommend tend to give you a bit of a kick, but Breton cider just slips convivially down and encourages you to send a few friends to join it.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.
  • northern_monkeynorthern_monkey Posts: 1,640

    Waterfall said:


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    One thing that I hadn't appreciated until recently (mainly via the We Have Ways podcasts, and James Hollands excellent books) was how much harder rationing was in Germany from the start of the war than in say the UK. Despite stripping occupied territories the rationing was huge in Nazi Germany and from an early time point too. They also make some very silly choices - rather than keeping French industry in place and using them to produce equipment for the war they stripped factories and destroyed the French industry.

    I have had my eyes opened to the realisation that once Britain and Empire countries stayed in the war in 1940, Hitler had lost. The nature of the defeat was not certain, or the timing, but eventually Germany would have lost. Economics is everything. Being good fighters (and despite the mythologysing, not ALL German troops were amazing) is not enough when faced with huge industrial power.
    Germany (or more importantly Hitler) tried to run WWII on a peacetime economy (until 1943 at least) and by defeating their opponents within 4-8 weeks. Worked with Poland, Norway, France and the rest but didn't work with us, nor the Soviet Union.

    Once October 1941 had rolled around, they were buggered, even without the US coming in.
    Basically ww2 was all over after Stalingrad. Strangely this decisive battle is rarely mentioned in our media.
    To anyone interested in World War II in Europe, you read about the Eastern Front. Because thats were the vast majority of the land fighting happened.
    And I'd largely disagree. I mean, David Mitchell spent the first season of Peep show with a copy of Beever's 'Stalingrad' following him around.

    My general interest has somewhat shifted from the western front to the eastern front over the past few years because of the sheer scale of the fighting. Four years of unceasing brutality.

    If anyone could suggest a readable history of the summer ‘44 Soviet offensive, Bagration, that just tore the German Army Group Centre into tiny pieces, I’d be very grateful. It’s overshadowed, understandably, in the west because of D-Day and rest, and I can’t find a decent Beevor-esque book about it.

    That and the rest of the fighting in the east, up to and including the fall of Berlin, I find very interesting but I need to know a lot more about it all, really. There are very dry military historian/specialist tomes out there, authors like John Erickson - superbly detailed academic work but not easy to read cover-to-cover. Something with a bit more of a readable narrative would be lovely.

    Just the sheer horror of what the Wehrmacht endured - obvs they were the enemy and they deserved the kicking, don’t get me wrong - is mind boggling. And they kept fighting. Insane.
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,668
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,240
    .
    kjh said:

    Andy_JS said:
    We have just had a Sainsbury's local open up with self checkout tills. This is in a posh bit of Surrey. My wife has repeatedly noticed when going to pay that the person in front of her has appeared to have paid, but there is a message - card declined.

    So they have a duff card, go through the motions and appear to pay and then leave without paying. This has happened to her quite a few times now in a matter of a few month so we decided to report it, but the store was fully aware it was happening.
    Which is a main reason why self checkout tills cost supermarkets more than paying staff to man them.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    A lot of that was due to Admiral Canaris head of the Abwehr who used his contacts with SPanish military intelligence to persuade Franco to stay neutral.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,778

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    Bearing in mind the agreement was for 300 or so refugees/boat people are you planning 30 per flight?

    I have never particularly liked the Conservative Party, this is nonetheless an immoral low, even for them.
    No, 300 spaces won't be enough - even bearing in mind that 99.9% of people will abscond from Rwanda as soon as they get there. I don't know what would be enough but I'd think 2000-odd spaces would do it.
    And that would only cost £3bn. Well worth it if it gives us another five years of Rishi Sunak as prime minister. ;-)
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,942
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    Can you speak French well?
    I’m good at shrugging and over gesturing which pretty much gets you halfway in most situations

    Not so good on actual words and stuff

    Apparently I have a convincing accent despite not actually speaking much French. I think it comes from years of watching them speak. So I can kind of copy how they do it just not what exactly they do
    I find that with Flemish if you read it with a German accent it all makes sense bizarrely.

    In France last year we struggled in the countryside even with young people, but translation with the mobile phone seemed to solve all problems.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    "Very deceptively strong" is also excellent description of the superb cider yours truly enjoyed one memorable day in Normandy. Unwisely consumed not just one, or two, but three in succession.

    Wisely, my lodgings were in room above the bar . . .
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109
    Waterfall said:


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Part of the reason that the Germans went into WWI, was the runaway expansion of the Russian economy before the war.

    They thought that they had to fight now - since in a decade they would be facing a vastly superior foe.

    This economic transformation of Russia was lost in the revolution and mostly forgotten today.
    Amazing to think in the early 20th century the russian stock market was regarded as a good bet. Shows how things can change.
    Investing in Russian industry rapidly became a one way punt, with huge returns.

    After the Revolution, a lot if securities and bonds were defaulted on by the new government. When 1989 rolled round, one of the things the Russian government did was honour them at face value. Of course, inflation meant that huge sums before WWI were just millions now.

    However, some people had been collecting the bonds as pretty bits of paper. Sort of like stamp collecting. Some ended up with considerable sums of money when the bonds became redeemable.
  • sladeslade Posts: 2,080


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    Apparently Churchill and Sir Samuel Hoare got up to considerable skulduggery to keep Spain neutral.
    See Mark Simmons, 'Ian Fleming and Operation Golden Eye.'
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    A lot of that was due to Admiral Canaris head of the Abwehr who used his contacts with SPanish military intelligence to persuade Franco to stay neutral.
    Not that Franco needed much persuasion. Contenting himself with dispatching a volunteer contingent - the Blue Division - to fight the Red Army alongside the Wehrmacht . . . until 1944 when he saw the handwriting on the wall . . .

    Hitler himself tried, with notable lack of success, to persuade Franco to bring Spain into the war as part of the Axis, at personal meeting held on French-Spanish border.

    The Führer latter compared the experience (unfavorably) to having one of his teeth pulled.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    edited April 22
    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/


    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    There is something in that. Whisky on a warm early September evening with a view of the mountains just starting to turn gold, a peaty stream burbling in the foreground...

    But I'd argue that it doesn't taste any better. It's just adding another pleasant experience (being at large in the open air on a pleasant day with a pleasant view) to what is already a pleasant experience (drinking whisky). And it feels right, appropriate, the product is telling the story of its birth, and so on ... but not necessarily any better a taste than drinking it on an overcast Sunday afternoon with a view of your own front garden.

    Ditto Guinness in Ireland, which is reputed always to taste better but in my experience tastes no better or worse than that in England.

    In fact, I would rather have Breton cider in my own back garden - because if I am drinking it in its natural environment - some sort of cafe in some sort of Breton village - it invariably means I will have to severely ration myself as I will soon be having to drive somewhere else.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    If you'd ever been there, you'd know it's Old Pulteney.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    Apparently Churchill and Sir Samuel Hoare got up to considerable skulduggery to keep Spain neutral.
    IMHO that take gives TOO much credit (though some credit is indeed due) to Churchill and Hoare. Seeing as how Franco was never anywhere near eager for Spain to enter WWII.

    He did have to deal with many pro-Nazi's within his own regime, so his course was somewhat less than straightforward, to put it mildly.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    Though it seems Strongbow on a bench in Bishop’s Meadow in Hereford didn’t have the desired effect for one poster.

    In Britain I would definitely add:

    - Whisky in front of an open fire in a highland lodge
    - Cup of tea with scones in a London hotel
    - Pint of best in a beer garden on a sunny evening
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    If you'd ever been there, you'd know it's Old Pulteney.
    I’m the first person ever to be busted for pretending to have gone to Wick.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    Waterfall said:


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    One thing that I hadn't appreciated until recently (mainly via the We Have Ways podcasts, and James Hollands excellent books) was how much harder rationing was in Germany from the start of the war than in say the UK. Despite stripping occupied territories the rationing was huge in Nazi Germany and from an early time point too. They also make some very silly choices - rather than keeping French industry in place and using them to produce equipment for the war they stripped factories and destroyed the French industry.

    I have had my eyes opened to the realisation that once Britain and Empire countries stayed in the war in 1940, Hitler had lost. The nature of the defeat was not certain, or the timing, but eventually Germany would have lost. Economics is everything. Being good fighters (and despite the mythologysing, not ALL German troops were amazing) is not enough when faced with huge industrial power.
    Germany (or more importantly Hitler) tried to run WWII on a peacetime economy (until 1943 at least) and by defeating their opponents within 4-8 weeks. Worked with Poland, Norway, France and the rest but didn't work with us, nor the Soviet Union.

    Once October 1941 had rolled around, they were buggered, even without the US coming in.
    Basically ww2 was all over after Stalingrad. Strangely this decisive battle is rarely mentioned in our media.
    To anyone interested in World War II in Europe, you read about the Eastern Front. Because thats were the vast majority of the land fighting happened.
    And I'd largely disagree. I mean, David Mitchell spent the first season of Peep show with a copy of Beever's 'Stalingrad' following him around.

    My general interest has somewhat shifted from the western front to the eastern front over the past few years because of the sheer scale of the fighting. Four years of unceasing brutality.

    If anyone could suggest a readable history of the summer ‘44 Soviet offensive, Bagration, that just tore the German Army Group Centre into tiny pieces, I’d be very grateful. It’s overshadowed, understandably, in the west because of D-Day and rest, and I can’t find a decent Beevor-esque book about it.

    That and the rest of the fighting in the east, up to and including the fall of Berlin, I find very interesting but I need to know a lot more about it all, really. There are very dry military historian/specialist tomes out there, authors like John Erickson - superbly detailed academic work but not easy to read cover-to-cover. Something with a bit more of a readable narrative would be lovely.

    Just the sheer horror of what the Wehrmacht endured - obvs they were the enemy and they deserved the kicking, don’t get me wrong - is mind boggling. And they kept fighting. Insane.
    https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Hitler_s_Greatest_Defeat/4zHoEAAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=army+group+centre&printsec=frontcover

    might be worth a look. I think it's possibly a new edition of his "Hitler's Greatest Defeat:
    The Collapse of Army Group Centre, June 1944".
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    There is something in that. Whisky on a warm early September evening with a view of the mountains just starting to turn gold, a peaty stream burbling in the foreground...

    But I'd argue that it doesn't taste any better. It's just adding another pleasant experience (being at large in the open air on a pleasant day with a pleasant view) to what is already a pleasant experience (drinking whisky). And it feels right, appropriate, the product is telling the story of its birth, and so on ... but not necessarily any better a taste than drinking it on an overcast Sunday afternoon with a view of your own front garden.

    Ditto Guinness in Ireland, which is reputed always to taste better but in my experience tastes no better or worse than that in England.

    In fact, I would rather have Breton cider in my own back garden - because if I am drinking it in its natural environment - some sort of cafe in some sort of Breton village - it invariably means I will have to severely ration myself as I will soon be having to drive somewhere else.
    Pastis in Provence is definitely better; it demands warmer weather than we ordinarily have (though last summer was a definite exception).
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,556
    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    Though it seems Strongbow on a bench in Bishop’s Meadow in Hereford didn’t have the desired effect for one poster.

    In Britain I would definitely add:

    - Whisky in front of an open fire in a highland lodge
    - Cup of tea with scones in a London hotel
    - Pint of best in a beer garden on a sunny evening
    I guess Fish and Chips by the sea out of the wrappers for a non booze situation?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should we be worried? An entirely new sort of lifeform with a big competitive advantage rarely ends well for existing lifeforms on the planet. I don't know nearly enough to talk authoritatively, but it sounds as if it could quite quickly change the balance of gases in the earth's atmosphere.
    I'm given hope by the fact that this has apparently been going on for some time, so presumably could continue to do so for some time yet before ecological catastrophe strikes.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    Trump bond challenge over.

    https://twitter.com/rscharf_/status/1782430881329672249
    AGREEMENT REACHED: Kise says they'll agree to maintain the Schwab account in cash and give Knight exclusive control of the account. Under a previous agreement, a Trump trust shared control. Seems like this will moot the AG's challenge to the bond.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Fascinating.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 52,282
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Is it Truss and the lettuce?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    I was wondering if it explained the existence of Liberal Democrats.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,000
    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    If you'd ever been there, you'd know it's Old Pulteney.
    Police Scotland wish Buckfast was only popular in in its local area.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074
    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    Though it seems Strongbow on a bench in Bishop’s Meadow in Hereford didn’t have the desired effect for one poster.

    In Britain I would definitely add:

    - Whisky in front of an open fire in a highland lodge
    - Cup of tea with scones in a London hotel
    - Pint of best in a beer garden on a sunny evening
    I guess Fish and Chips by the sea out of the wrappers for a non booze situation?
    Ploughman's lunch in a sunny beer garden with country views.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704
    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    There is something in that. Whisky on a warm early September evening with a view of the mountains just starting to turn gold, a peaty stream burbling in the foreground...

    But I'd argue that it doesn't taste any better. It's just adding another pleasant experience (being at large in the open air on a pleasant day with a pleasant view) to what is already a pleasant experience (drinking whisky). And it feels right, appropriate, the product is telling the story of its birth, and so on ... but not necessarily any better a taste than drinking it on an overcast Sunday afternoon with a view of your own front garden.

    Ditto Guinness in Ireland, which is reputed always to taste better but in my experience tastes no better or worse than that in England.

    In fact, I would rather have Breton cider in my own back garden - because if I am drinking it in its natural environment - some sort of cafe in some sort of Breton village - it invariably means I will have to severely ration myself as I will soon be having to drive somewhere else.
    One drink not recommended is Thai 'whisky'. Dreadful stuff.
    Many, many years ago I arrived at a Wiltshire youth hostel, when I used such things, and found it was nearly full with a juvenile group party. So another 18 year and I went down to the local pub for the evening and were introduced to the local cider.
    Felt quite rough the next day!
  • tlg86tlg86 Posts: 26,220
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should @Leon be panicking?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,014
    sarissa said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    If you'd ever been there, you'd know it's Old Pulteney.
    Police Scotland wish Buckfast was only popular in in its local area.
    It's a little old school though. It is startling how many current crime scenes involve something called Dragon Soop. |I've actually tried Buckfast, its like a slightly disappointing Port, but Dragon Soop remains a mystery.
  • TazTaz Posts: 15,027
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should @Leon be panicking?
    Brace Brace.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,942
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should @Leon be panicking?
    Of course, but did it escape from a lab? That is the question.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319
    FTSE100 closed today at an all-time record high. We can only speculate whether this is due to Sunak's adroit management of the economy or the imminent arrival of PM Starmer.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    kjh said:

    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should @Leon be panicking?
    Of course, but did it escape from a lab? That is the question.
    Captured by, I think.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    MTG has fans.
    Not quite sure what they mean by that last sentence. Do they have tapes ?

    Russian State TV praising Marge: “Greene is a real beauty. She is a blond who wears white coats with a fur collar. She’s demonstrably heterosexual.”
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1782187769562792429
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    DavidL said:

    sarissa said:

    Carnyx said:

    boulay said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    Special Brew on a park bench in Wick.
    If you'd ever been there, you'd know it's Old Pulteney.
    Police Scotland wish Buckfast was only popular in in its local area.
    It's a little old school though. It is startling how many current crime scenes involve something called Dragon Soop. |I've actually tried Buckfast, its like a slightly disappointing Port, but Dragon Soop remains a mystery.
    Hmm, so that's what it is about, is it? It's becoming more salient in local litter (and Buckie is mainly a beverage for the aspiring Hyacinth Bouquets of West Central neddery in my experience anyway). I see the new electric soup comes in such flavours as blueberry and guava for GenZ, but old school types such as you and I will be happy to see the existence of apple & blackcurrant flavour.

    https://www.dragonsoop.com/
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,109

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    There is something in that. Whisky on a warm early September evening with a view of the mountains just starting to turn gold, a peaty stream burbling in the foreground...

    But I'd argue that it doesn't taste any better. It's just adding another pleasant experience (being at large in the open air on a pleasant day with a pleasant view) to what is already a pleasant experience (drinking whisky). And it feels right, appropriate, the product is telling the story of its birth, and so on ... but not necessarily any better a taste than drinking it on an overcast Sunday afternoon with a view of your own front garden.

    Ditto Guinness in Ireland, which is reputed always to taste better but in my experience tastes no better or worse than that in England.

    In fact, I would rather have Breton cider in my own back garden - because if I am drinking it in its natural environment - some sort of cafe in some sort of Breton village - it invariably means I will have to severely ration myself as I will soon be having to drive somewhere else.
    One drink not recommended is Thai 'whisky'. Dreadful stuff.
    Many, many years ago I arrived at a Wiltshire youth hostel, when I used such things, and found it was nearly full with a juvenile group party. So another 18 year and I went down to the local pub for the evening and were introduced to the local cider.
    Felt quite rough the next day!
    There used to be a Nepalese Everest Whisky.

    One should advise the 3rd footman not to use it to clean his less valuable pair of boots
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337

    FTSE100 closed today at an all-time record high. We can only speculate whether this is due to Sunak's adroit management of the economy or the imminent arrival of PM Starmer.

    Hmm, is that corrected for inflation? We have had rather a lot of the latter recently.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Classic bit of understatement here.

    "One possible benefit is that it could give scientists a new avenue to incorporate nitrogen-fixing into plants to grow better crops."
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    They usually serve their cider in ceramic cups and weirdly it tastes “right” out of them. I’ve got a load of the cups, like handleless shallow tea cups or bowls I’m not a huge cider fan but make an exception when in Brittany - usually works best though before lunch for some reason.
    Breton cider also tastes decidedly of apples, unlike most cider you can buy in England.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,682


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    A lot of that was due to Admiral Canaris head of the Abwehr who used his contacts with SPanish military intelligence to persuade Franco to stay neutral.
    Not that Franco needed much persuasion. Contenting himself with dispatching a volunteer contingent - the Blue Division - to fight the Red Army alongside the Wehrmacht . . . until 1944 when he saw the handwriting on the wall . . .

    Hitler himself tried, with notable lack of success, to persuade Franco to bring Spain into the war as part of the Axis, at personal meeting held on French-Spanish border.

    The Führer latter compared the experience (unfavorably) to having one of his teeth pulled.
    It was in advance of that meeting that Canaris - who had been the one sent by Hitler to arrange it - made sure that the Spanish were given every reason to refuse Hitler's requests.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    DavidL said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    I was wondering if it explained the existence of Liberal Democrats.
    Very unlikely -some things are so weird that they are beyond The Scientific Method
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821
    ...

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
    I don't see how.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    By the way an amazing fourth day in the County Championship at Hove is coming to an end now.

    Gloucestershire started the day six wickets down in their second innings, only 19 runs ahead, but they managed to set a target of 144, with a second fifty in the match from Zafar Gohar, who has now taken five wickets in Sussex's second innings to reduce them to 131/6, as they inch towards victory.

    Live now on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/live/ig7n8Kl04kM
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,319
    Carnyx said:

    FTSE100 closed today at an all-time record high. We can only speculate whether this is due to Sunak's adroit management of the economy or the imminent arrival of PM Starmer.

    Hmm, is that corrected for inflation? We have had rather a lot of the latter recently.
    Unfortunately not! It famously hit 7000 on the last day of trading in 1999. I don't have the CPI figure to hand but I'd guess it needs to be around 15,000 to match inflation (and not 8023 - the current new 'record').
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.
    Breton cider is, in my experience, the opposite of 'rough'. Most regional alcoholic drinks which people enthusiastically recommend tend to give you a bit of a kick, but Breton cider just slips convivially down and encourages you to send a few friends to join it.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.
    Yes, a lot of the brut ciders in Brittany/Normandy are great, full of appley bite and as you say moreish. I wish I could find it more easily here as it's a great drink. I don't drink much English cider. Here in London it's mostly saccharine garbage behind the bar. Ugh.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    ...

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
    I don't see how.
    Afghan family, husband/father worked for the British Army fled vengeful Taliban. Why shouldn't they stay here?
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417


    It seems to me that the German experience in both world wars was very similar in that their initial early successes were always ultimately going to prove futile thanks to their lack of resources and manpower once their enemies had got their shit together and their industrial might was simply too big to be defeated.

    Very much a view of 20/20 hindsight, admittedly.

    But the Schlieffen Plan failed. Ok, they got France and the rest in 1940, but Barbarossa failed too. And once they’d got themselves embroiled in trying to defend vast tracts of territory, despite their undoubted military skill and tenacious defence, they didn’t have the resources, logistics or manpower to win. Though the spring 1918 offensive caused some squeaky bums, it was a last roll of the dice and couldn’t realistically succeed. Same with the Battle of the Bulge too, for example.

    A guy called Rob Thompson, who sadly died last year in his 50s of cancer, has done some fascinating work on Allied logistics in WW1 - the Germans had no chance ultimately in competing with that output. It’s mind boggling the resources the allied side had by 1917 and 1918. A similar tale by 1943 onwards. Fascinating stuff.

    A bit late to the party, but re: World War II I always remember the quote that by December 1941 the Germans had decided it was a good idea to fight:

    1. The largest empire in the world; and
    2. The largest country in the world; and
    3. The country with the largest industrial base in the world.

    To do that, they decided that the two countries they'd get to help them would be Japan and Italy.
    Props to General Franco for keeping Spain on the sidelines; Hitler must have been miffed after the Luftwaffe won the Spanish civil war for him. Japan is a bit odd because there was very little coordination between Germany and Japan, just common enemies.
    Apparently Churchill and Sir Samuel Hoare got up to considerable skulduggery to keep Spain neutral.
    Hmm. We used to have a relative of Slippery Sam's on pb who might have known something.
  • Nigel_ForemainNigel_Foremain Posts: 14,350
    tlg86 said:

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    This is amazing.

    Scientists have discovered a third example of endosymbiosis (the third in the last couple of billion years). The other two were long ago, and gave us mitochondria and plants.
    This one is evolution still in action - having started maybe 100 million years ago.

    Two lifeforms merge in once-in-a-billion-years evolutionary event
    https://newatlas.com/biology/life-merger-evolution-symbiosis-organelle/

    A real shame that the great evolutionary biologist Lynn Margulis is no longer around.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynn_Margulis#Symbiosis_as_evolutionary_force

    Can I just repeat, THIS IS AMAZING.

    Biggest news of the year, IMO.
    Should @Leon be panicking?
    It's another Chinese lab leak.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,449

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    And that's the tell that this is not a serious policy.

    If you want to establish that, the UK government needs a scheme with massive surge capacity- initially several thousand a week for several weeks and the ability to still say "there's plenty of room for more".

    They haven't done that, and everyone knows it.

    The kindest interpretation is that a talking point got taken too seriously, and everyone is now stuck with it because it's just too embarassing to say out loud that the scheme is batshit. (Did James Cleverley ever actually deny saying that?) Think Emperor's New Clothes.

    Otherwise, we're left with an expensive performance... of what?

    In terms of tonight, I think the nuclear option for the Lords is to say "You can have your bill, provided you accept our two amendments. One on Afghan interpreters and the other on independent monitoring of Rwanda's ongoing safety."

    Thus far, Rishi has stood against those amendments. If the Lords do go that way, what should Rishi do? And what should the Lords do?
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    And that's the tell that this is not a serious policy.

    If you want to establish that, the UK government needs a scheme with massive surge capacity- initially several thousand a week for several weeks and the ability to still say "there's plenty of room for more".

    They haven't done that, and everyone knows it.

    The kindest interpretation is that a talking point got taken too seriously, and everyone is now stuck with it because it's just too embarassing to say out loud that the scheme is batshit. (Did James Cleverley ever actually deny saying that?) Think Emperor's New Clothes.

    Otherwise, we're left with an expensive performance... of what?

    In terms of tonight, I think the nuclear option for the Lords is to say "You can have your bill, provided you accept our two amendments. One on Afghan interpreters and the other on independent monitoring of Rwanda's ongoing safety."

    Thus far, Rishi has stood against those amendments. If the Lords do go that way, what should Rishi do? And what should the Lords do?
    Rishi will have a hissy fit!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909

    By the way an amazing fourth day in the County Championship at Hove is coming to an end now.

    Gloucestershire started the day six wickets down in their second innings, only 19 runs ahead, but they managed to set a target of 144, with a second fifty in the match from Zafar Gohar, who has now taken five wickets in Sussex's second innings to reduce them to 131/6, as they inch towards victory.

    Live now on YouTube.
    https://www.youtube.com/live/ig7n8Kl04kM

    A second fifty for MAH Hammond too, but Sussex only 1 run from victory now.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    ...

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
    I don't see how.

    Afghan family, husband/father worked for the British Army fled vengeful Taliban. Why shouldn't they stay here?
    A big bulk of the boat people now come from Afghanistan - I can understand why the amendment was blocked, because every single one of those arrivals would have claimed to be working with the British army and therefore be exempt from being sent to Rwanda. Discretion and potentially leniency can nevertheless be applied on a case by case basis.

    I would prefer there to be a relocation scheme whereby such people could be housed near Afghanistan and potentially be rehomed in the UK 'from source'. I don’t approve of small boats being the route for such people - it tends to exclude women and children and other actually vulnerable people.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,417
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    Can you speak French well?
    I’m good at shrugging and over gesturing which pretty much gets you halfway in most situations

    Not so good on actual words and stuff

    Apparently I have a convincing accent despite not actually speaking much French. I think it comes from years of watching them speak. So I can kind of copy how they do it just not what exactly they do
    It always struck me that Liz Truss often had an oddly French cadence to her speech. A short phrase with emphasis on the last syllable, then a short pause before the next short phrase with emphasis on the last syllable, and so on. Of course it is possible she was just naff at reading an autocue.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 14,074

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    They usually serve their cider in ceramic cups and weirdly it tastes “right” out of them. I’ve got a load of the cups, like handleless shallow tea cups or bowls I’m not a huge cider fan but make an exception when in Brittany - usually works best though before lunch for some reason.
    Breton cider also tastes decidedly of apples, unlike most cider you can buy in England.
    You can get some good English ciders without too much effort. Tesco and Sainsburys, for a start, offer a modest selection of eminently acceptable ciders. I really like Thatcher's Katy, for example. Pubs tend to be a bit more hit and miss though.
    I'd still rather have a Breton cider though.
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,124
    Nigelb said:

    MTG has fans.
    Not quite sure what they mean by that last sentence. Do they have tapes ?

    Russian State TV praising Marge: “Greene is a real beauty. She is a blond who wears white coats with a fur collar. She’s demonstrably heterosexual.”
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1782187769562792429

    Perhaps they mean "desperately".. Moscow Marjorie Indeed,
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.
    Breton cider is, in my experience, the opposite of 'rough'. Most regional alcoholic drinks which people enthusiastically recommend tend to give you a bit of a kick, but Breton cider just slips convivially down and encourages you to send a few friends to join it.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.
    Yes, a lot of the brut ciders in Brittany/Normandy are great, full of appley bite and as you say moreish. I wish I could find it more easily here as it's a great drink. I don't drink much English cider. Here in London it's mostly saccharine garbage behind the bar. Ugh.
    I'm somewhat nonplussed by your inability to find non-shitty English cider in London. My local Co-op in the backwaters of Scotland seems to be able to stock multiple good brands that taste of apples.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,959

    NEW THREAD

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,177
    LOL

    If someone wrote a novel about a president on trial for paying off a porn star and the first witness was named "Pecker," you'd hand that back for a rewrite.
    https://twitter.com/HarlanCoben/status/1782426866814447711
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    And that's the tell that this is not a serious policy.

    If you want to establish that, the UK government needs a scheme with massive surge capacity- initially several thousand a week for several weeks and the ability to still say "there's plenty of room for more".

    They haven't done that, and everyone knows it.

    The kindest interpretation is that a talking point got taken too seriously, and everyone is now stuck with it because it's just too embarassing to say out loud that the scheme is batshit. (Did James Cleverley ever actually deny saying that?) Think Emperor's New Clothes.

    Otherwise, we're left with an expensive performance... of what?

    In terms of tonight, I think the nuclear option for the Lords is to say "You can have your bill, provided you accept our two amendments. One on Afghan interpreters and the other on independent monitoring of Rwanda's ongoing safety."

    Thus far, Rishi has stood against those amendments. If the Lords do go that way, what should Rishi do? And what should the Lords do?
    There's also a fundamental difference between the UK scheme, and the way every other country in the world does it.

    Look at Australia. If you arrive there by boat, they send you off to an off-shore processing facility. If your application is successful, you come to Australia. If it is unsuccessful, you are shipped back to your country of origin.

    The UK's Rwanda scheme is completely different. People are being sent to Rwanda to claim asylum there. The Rwandan government recieves money from the UK, but it is the job of the Rwandan government to process refugees, to house them if their applications are successful, and to deport them if they are not.

    This rather limits the appetite of the Rwandans for more than a small number of refugees. (Let us not forget that Kgali has about a tenth the population of London.) And it increases the likelihood of successful appeals against deportation to Rwanda.

    I don't understand why the UK is not implementing an Australian-type process. Sure, it would cost more to implement. But those people being processed would remain the responsibility of the UK, which would mean that it was significantly easier to implement, that it could scale properly, and that the likelihood of successful judicial appeals would be close to zero.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    Cookie said:

    TimS said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    There are relatively few things that I'll readily concede that the French do better than us, but I bloody love French cider.
    I like English cider too, but French cider must be the best in the world. They bang on about wine and cheese - which plenty of other places do just as well - but with their cider they genuinely do excel.
    Do they? Genuine question

    I grew up in Herefordshire and started drinking stolen Strongbow and “rough cider” from about the age of 12 and it put me off cider for life. I generally dislike it

    Should I try to like it? Is Brittany the place to do it? They do seem quite proud of it. Also crepes. I’m in Locronan which is obviously an authentic Breton sail making village as they have five creperies, three places selling artisanal biscuits and a shop dedicated to the bijou Celtic arts of Wellness and heliotrope and amber soap-spheres

    I doubt life has changed here in five hundred years



    Polanski filmed Tess here
    Definitely try Breton cider. I like a good British cider too - Weston's or Thatcher's or one of those - but Breton cider is magical stuff. Refreshing, delicious and very, very moreish.
    It is not an industry I pretend to understand, but the impression I get is of hundreds of small producers - no doubt there is variation between them, but I wouldn't know who to recommend.

    Helpfully, it is a drink which goes remarkably well with a crepe. I'm very fond of savoury pancakes and make them relatively often, and always get a taste for cider when I do so. I'm sure if you find your way to a creperie they will be able to furnish you with a decent cider to go along with it.

    I am not a cider fan generally. But the stuff in Asturias, in Northern Spain is superb. They aerate it by pouring it from a height into the glass and it is delicious. Very deceptively strong too.

    Is there also something about place and context that’s important here?

    Asturian cider poured from a height on a green cliff top with the sound of seagulls in the background. Breton cider served with lovely fresh crepes on a granite square. Things often taste much better in their home context, and just OK or even actively to be avoided at home.

    - Sake in Japan or at least in a Japanese restaurant
    - Wine tasted in the damp cellar of the owner
    - Guinness in Ireland
    - Retzina or Ouzo in Greece
    - Pastis in Provence
    - Weird fruity beer in a dark tavern in Belgium
    - Masala chai on an Indian train
    - Xacoli (also poured from a height) in the Basque Country
    - Fino in a Spanish backstreet with a leg of ham on the bar (well that’s delicious everywhere to be fair).
    There is something in that. Whisky on a warm early September evening with a view of the mountains just starting to turn gold, a peaty stream burbling in the foreground...

    But I'd argue that it doesn't taste any better. It's just adding another pleasant experience (being at large in the open air on a pleasant day with a pleasant view) to what is already a pleasant experience (drinking whisky). And it feels right, appropriate, the product is telling the story of its birth, and so on ... but not necessarily any better a taste than drinking it on an overcast Sunday afternoon with a view of your own front garden.

    Ditto Guinness in Ireland, which is reputed always to taste better but in my experience tastes no better or worse than that in England.

    In fact, I would rather have Breton cider in my own back garden - because if I am drinking it in its natural environment - some sort of cafe in some sort of Breton village - it invariably means I will have to severely ration myself as I will soon be having to drive somewhere else.
    One drink not recommended is Thai 'whisky'. Dreadful stuff.
    Many, many years ago I arrived at a Wiltshire youth hostel, when I used such things, and found it was nearly full with a juvenile group party. So another 18 year and I went down to the local pub for the evening and were introduced to the local cider.
    Felt quite rough the next day!
    Almost all cider gives yours truly a headache.

    Norman cider being the exception. Am will to bet that Breton & Asturian ciders are also exceptional.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,704

    ...

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
    I don't see how.

    Afghan family, husband/father worked for the British Army fled vengeful Taliban. Why shouldn't they stay here?
    A big bulk of the boat people now come from Afghanistan - I can understand why the amendment was blocked, because every single one of those arrivals would have claimed to be working with the British army and therefore be exempt from being sent to Rwanda. Discretion and potentially leniency can nevertheless be applied on a case by case basis.

    I would prefer there to be a relocation scheme whereby such people could be housed near Afghanistan and potentially be rehomed in the UK 'from source'. I don’t approve of small boats being the route for such people - it tends to exclude women and children and other actually vulnerable people.
    We're not very far apart, TBH. I'm not sure where you could site a relocation centre 'near Afghanistan'; Pakistan possibly, but I'm not sure about the security there.
    The other neighbour of Afghanistan is Iran. "Nuff said!
    Unless they cross the mountains into Tajikistan.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Nigelb said:

    MTG has fans.
    Not quite sure what they mean by that last sentence. Do they have tapes ?

    Russian State TV praising Marge: “Greene is a real beauty. She is a blond who wears white coats with a fur collar. She’s demonstrably heterosexual.”
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1782187769562792429

    One wonders just how Moscow Marjorie demonstrated that . . . to Moscow's evident (ahem) satisfaction?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,145
    Leon said:

    Andy_JS said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    Can you speak French well?
    I’m good at shrugging and over gesturing which pretty much gets you halfway in most situations

    Not so good on actual words and stuff

    Apparently I have a convincing accent despite not actually speaking much French. I think it comes from years of watching them speak. So I can kind of copy how they do it just not what exactly they do
    I’m sure the locals are mightily impressed with the English guy who comes in and takes off the French ‘accent’ and gestures without knowing any actual words.

    I presume in Germany you just do your Basil Fawlty tribute act?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,337
    This thread has not managed to get a free trip to Rwanda because of unprecedented demand.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    For all her faults, US Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-Toxic Cracker Barrel, GA) is WAY higher on the moral scale than her congressional GOP colleague, Victoria Spartz (R-Spinning WIndmill, IN).

    Check out her so-called congressional record, for example:

    > 2022 - Spartz called the . . . Russian invasion of Ukraine "a genocide of the Ukrainian people by a crazy man". Spartz was one of the first US officials to call Russian actions "war crimes". At the time of the invasion, Spartz had family still living in Ukraine, including her grandmother, who was living in Chernihiv, which was under siege by Russia.

    > 2024 > Spartz voted against a crucial $60 billion aid package for Ukraine[66], shortly after being accused by a primary challenger of prioritizing aid to Ukraine over domestic Republican priorities including the border wall.[67] Her vote against the U.S. aid for Ukraine came just three days after a Russian missile strike on Chernihiv, where her family [once] lived, killed 18 civilians and injured 78

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Spartz
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792
    Cookie said:

    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Nous arrivons. Bretagne



    That’s a Breton Kir. Cider and cassis. Nice

    They usually serve their cider in ceramic cups and weirdly it tastes “right” out of them. I’ve got a load of the cups, like handleless shallow tea cups or bowls I’m not a huge cider fan but make an exception when in Brittany - usually works best though before lunch for some reason.
    Breton cider also tastes decidedly of apples, unlike most cider you can buy in England.
    You can get some good English ciders without too much effort. Tesco and Sainsburys, for a start, offer a modest selection of eminently acceptable ciders. I really like Thatcher's Katy, for example. Pubs tend to be a bit more hit and miss though.
    I'd still rather have a Breton cider though.
    The Thatcher's Katy tastes of apples, but still mostly of sugar. We do make some great dry ciders in this country, but they tend not to make it to the supermarkets. Less still London pubs.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    Why (absent complete dissolution of the UK) there'll never be an English parliament, and the English are quite content with that.

    'To mark St George’s Day tomorrow, I asked people in Great Britain which flag they felt represented them best – the flag of their own nation, or the Union flag.

    In England, nearly half (44%) chose the Union flag, with one in ten choosing the cross of St George and a further 29% saying both equally.'

    https://lordashcroftpolls.com/2024/04/which-flag-do-people-in-britain-think-represents-them-best/

    Btw nice to see Ashcroft turning his gaze away from Rayner for a moment.

    They count UK as England already so no need to change.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,821

    ...

    ...

    I'd say Sunak needs 10 planes full of boat people to fly to Rwanda in quick succession, to break the boats. I could be very wrong - it will become apparent very quickly if I am.

    If he manages this, it will be a major feat, and he's right to try and get his name all over it before it happens. Also a very clear dividing line with Labour, whose shitty non-policy on this involves chucking even more money at the French, and quite possibly signing us up to agreements to take more asylum seekers from the EU.

    The current backlog is 80,777. An A320 can usually take 160 people. You would need 505 planes full of boat people to clear the backlog.

    How many would you need to sufficient break the incentive for people to come to the UK on small boats? I don't know. I expect many over a long period.
    I don't think one needs to clear the backlog, just send all the newcomers to Rwanda.
    I'm not entirely clear, but my understanding is that most of the backlog are in legal limbo. The Govt has passed a law meaning they can't be processed here. So, don't we have to send them to Rwanda or forever pay for their upkeep? (Or, obviously, vote out this terrible government.)
    I'm sure that's correct, but it's far more important to get the current arrivals there, in terms of the disincentive factor. Once it has been firmly established that a trip across the channel is a one-way ticket to Rwanda, new arrivals will stop, and the backlog can be dealt with.
    Cruel!
    I don't see how.

    Afghan family, husband/father worked for the British Army fled vengeful Taliban. Why shouldn't they stay here?
    A big bulk of the boat people now come from Afghanistan - I can understand why the amendment was blocked, because every single one of those arrivals would have claimed to be working with the British army and therefore be exempt from being sent to Rwanda. Discretion and potentially leniency can nevertheless be applied on a case by case basis.

    I would prefer there to be a relocation scheme whereby such people could be housed near Afghanistan and potentially be rehomed in the UK 'from source'. I don’t approve of small boats being the route for such people - it tends to exclude women and children and other actually vulnerable people.
    We're not very far apart, TBH. I'm not sure where you could site a relocation centre 'near Afghanistan'; Pakistan possibly, but I'm not sure about the security there.
    The other neighbour of Afghanistan is Iran. "Nuff said!
    Unless they cross the mountains into Tajikistan.
    I don't know either. The whole region is a total mess, due in no small part to our own frequently offered 'help'.
  • TresTres Posts: 2,723
    Nigelb said:

    MTG has fans.
    Not quite sure what they mean by that last sentence. Do they have tapes ?

    Russian State TV praising Marge: “Greene is a real beauty. She is a blond who wears white coats with a fur collar. She’s demonstrably heterosexual.”
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1782187769562792429

    Charles's infatuation becomes clearer.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,390
    Tres said:

    Nigelb said:

    MTG has fans.
    Not quite sure what they mean by that last sentence. Do they have tapes ?

    Russian State TV praising Marge: “Greene is a real beauty. She is a blond who wears white coats with a fur collar. She’s demonstrably heterosexual.”
    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1782187769562792429

    Charles's infatuation becomes clearer.
    Is @Charles back?
This discussion has been closed.