I can't believe that someone has been photographed *again* with a sensitive document walking along Downing Street. Just what is wrong with these people? If they can't be trusted to remember that modern cameras can read the text of a document from several yards away they don't deserve to be in the job. Why aren't there opaque document carriers that have to be used at all times? I'm flabbergasted at the incompetence.
Rant over.
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests."
Sounds far more like a targeted leak to calm the city rather than a mistake.
Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.
So please drop your line of posting.
MickPork
Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist
Factually incorrect. This was the post which was directed at me and one other poster NOT to me and SeanT.
"For the avoidance of doubt until further notice neither of you are allowed to discuss anything connected to sexual crimes"
If you wish to change your instruction to now include banning me on posting on something SeanT has happily posted on himself here many times before then be explicit that you are doing so and please give the correct reason why.
It is a follow on from the posting on Thursday.
As I said if you wish to change your instruction then be explicit that you are doing as you just have and then I will of course comply as I expect will others.
As was posted on Thursday
For all PBers
Mike has made it abundantly clear in the past to some posters in private that using sex related crimes to insult other posters is unacceptable.
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests."
Sounds far more like a targeted leak to calm the city rather than a mistake.
Possible I suppose. But more likely that they are trying to make the best of an accidental cock-up.
Why aren't there opaque document carriers that have to be used at all times? I'm flabbergasted at the incompetence.
Rant over.
To be fair even though this does look far more like a deliberate leak than incompetence you can't expect every bag-carrier and witless helper to be competent. As always though such obvious incompetence and stupidity does reflect badly on their boss when they reveal it so blatantly for all to to see.
When it really is embarrassing incompetence and not deliberate you can expect those who do it to get an earful from their boss and for them to be put on a very short leash after their inept blundering. It still doesn't excuse giving even very limited power to those who are incapable of using it without making a fool of themselves.
An opaque document carrier or even just a binder is of course the very least that you would expect.
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1,000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Much, probably even most, of the blame for the crisis in the Ukraine has to be laid at the door of western diplomats, in particular from the EU, but also the US and individual EU Members including the UK.
The idea that the EU could prise The Ukraine away from Russia's sphere of influence by supporting a coup d'état by the Maidan protestors was badly flawed. If for no other reason than, if successful, it would have landed the EU with the obligation of eastward enlargement without full consideration of its merits.
If anything positive is to come out of the crisis it will be a recognition by the EU that future discussions on eastward expansion have to include Russia, if not as a candidate EU member by itself (which may be a long term goal) but as a supporting godfather to any EU involvement with its Eastern slavic neighbours, the Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus.
A positive diplomatic relationship with Russia (which before the Ukraine crisis was building over Syria and Iran) is far more important than wasteing time with token reprisals and punishments for Russia's aggression in the Crimea and, potentially, Southern and Eastern Ukraine.
Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
You're making a fool of yourself.
You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
Labour has the highest proportion of working supporters, and the highest absolute number. Ukip the exact reverse. Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
Why aren't there opaque document carriers that have to be used at all times? I'm flabbergasted at the incompetence.
Rant over.
To be fair even though this does look far more like a deliberate leak than incompetence you can't expect every bag-carrier and witless helper to be competent. As always though such obvious incompetence and stupidity does reflect badly on their boss when they reveal it so blatantly for all to to see.
When it really is embarrassing incompetence and not deliberate you can expect those who do it to get an earful from their boss and for them to be put on a very short leash after their inept blundering. It still doesn't excuse giving even very limited power to those who are incapable of using it without making a fool of themselves.
An opaque document carrier or even just a binder is of course the very least that you would expect.
It really ought to be strict procedure at the end of meetings to put the documents away. It's not bloody rocket science.
RE: Can't find the phrase for leaking by docu photo but it's something along the lines of 'papsnapping'.
Pork
I doubt the use of the word "pap" in such context.
My recollection of its Jacobean usage is of an entirely different primary meaning. Take for example the famous speech of Sir Epicure Mammon in Ben Jonson's "The Alchemist":
My foot-boy shall eat pheasants, calver'd salmons, Knots, godwits, lampreys: I myself will have The beards of barbels served, instead of sallads; Oil'd mushrooms; and the swelling unctuous paps Of a fat pregnant sow, newly cut off, Drest with an exquisite, and poignant sauce; For which, I'll say unto my cook, There's gold, Go forth, and be a knight.
Almost Salmondesque in its grandeur and love of the high life.
Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
You're making a fool of yourself.
You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
Labour has the highest proportion of working supporters, and the highest absolute number. Ukip the exact reverse. Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
*note my lack of unpleasant personal remarks.
I haven't been unpleasant to you in the slightest
I am trying to help you out,because you keep embarrassing yourself by carrying on... it is no wonder you are trying to get me to insult you so you can pretend to be upset and flounce off
I admitted that point down thread, but it is misleading to the point of being a quasi lie
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Admit you called it completely wrong and I wont make you look any more silly x
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London
Government document photographed outside No 10 states that 'London's financial centre' should not be closed to Russians
Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
These kind of comments can only come from people who have no idea what it is like to be poor
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Don't you think it's as much a London metropolitan versus Out of town issue though? There are plenty of Labour / LD etc supporters and posters based in the city who would not think it unusual to pay that for a meal out. I can think of a number of trendy and even pricier restaurants favoured by Left leaning individuals. One who used to post here, recommended Boisdale more than once, and that's hardly 2 eat for £10.
Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
You're making a fool of yourself.
You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
Labour has the highest proportion of working supporters, and the highest absolute number. Ukip the exact reverse. Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
*note my lack of unpleasant personal remarks.
I haven't been unpleasant to you in the slightest
I am trying to help you out,because you keep embarrassing yourself by carrying on... it is no wonder you are trying to get me to insult you so you can pretend to be upset and flounce off
I admitted that point down thread, but it is misleading to the point of being a quasi lie
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Admit you called it completely wrong and I wont make you look any more silly x
What is this complete obsession you and Watcher have with 'flouncing'?? You are the one who has called it wrong! Substitute working people for vegetarians. They have the higher proportion of vegetarians than any other party, and the most in number. Labour are the party of vegetarians!
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1,000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Did you actually look at the proportional charts I posted? Labour have the highest proportion of working people (vegetarians) AND the highest in absolute numbers. That's the beginning and end of this. I am bored.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
£27.50? For a set lunch?
You would need to be working for a Food Bank to afford that, Topping.
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Don't you think it's as much a London metropolitan versus Out of town issue though? There are plenty of Labour / LD etc supporters and posters based in the city who would not think it unusual to pay that for a meal out. I can think of a number of trendy and even pricier restaurants favoured by Left leaning individuals. It's not solely a 'Tory Thing'.
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I also get the private medical insurance advert, which is ironic as I am a broker in that field.
Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
You're making a fool of yourself.
You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
Labour has the highest proportion of working supporters, and the highest absolute number. Ukip the exact reverse. Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
*note my lack of unpleasant personal remarks.
I haven't been unpleasant to you in the slightest
I am trying to help you out,because you keep embarrassing yourself by carrying on... it is no wonder you are trying to get me to insult you so you can pretend to be upset and flounce off
I admitted that point down thread, but it is misleading to the point of being a quasi lie
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Admit you called it completely wrong and I wont make you look any more silly x
What is this complete obsession you and Watcher have with 'flouncing'?? You are the one who has called it wrong! Substitute working people for vegetarians. They have the higher proportion of vegetarians than any other party, and the most in number. Labour are the party of vegetarians!
I've only said flouncing once! (twice now...) Hardly an obsession?!
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I have a rather attractive advert for a tapestry kit for a peacock cushion cover.
Being known to buy such kits as presents (they go down as well as kitchen aprons) I almost followed the link.
But then it may be something to do with the conspiracy theory sites I frequent.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Don't you think it's as much a London metropolitan versus Out of town issue though? There are plenty of Labour / LD etc supporters and posters based in the city who would not think it unusual to pay that for a meal out. I can think of a number of trendy and even pricier restaurants favoured by Left leaning individuals. One who used to post here, recommended Boisdale more than once, and that's hardly 2 eat for £10.
It's not solely a 'Tory Thing'.
Yes agreed. Both are guilty. It's just the Tories that have a problem with it politically. For Lab there is a whiff of hypocrisy but not one sufficient to damage them electorally.
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1,000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Did you actually look at the proportional charts I posted? Labour have the highest proportion of working people (vegetarians) AND the highest in absolute numbers. That's the beginning and end of this. I am bored.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Don't you think it's as much a London metropolitan versus Out of town issue though? There are plenty of Labour / LD etc supporters and posters based in the city who would not think it unusual to pay that for a meal out. I can think of a number of trendy and even pricier restaurants favoured by Left leaning individuals. One who used to post here, recommended Boisdale more than once, and that's hardly 2 eat for £10.
It's not solely a 'Tory Thing'.
Completely agree. Not a left-right thing at all. To be fair, don't think @Socrates was even saying it was. Supply creates its own demand. If you have great restaurants in your city, you probably want to try them. You just do without something else if you want to and have to
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I'm also being suggested employment at the US Postal Service and how to access the President's homeowner bailout.
Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
You're making a fool of yourself.
You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
Labour has the highest proportion of working supporters, and the highest absolute number. Ukip the exact reverse. Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
*note my lack of unpleasant personal remarks.
I haven't been unpleasant to you in the slightest
I am trying to help you out,because you keep embarrassing yourself by carrying on... it is no wonder you are trying to get me to insult you so you can pretend to be upset and flounce off
I admitted that point down thread, but it is misleading to the point of being a quasi lie
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Admit you called it completely wrong and I wont make you look any more silly x
What is this complete obsession you and Watcher have with 'flouncing'?? You are the one who has called it wrong! Substitute working people for vegetarians. They have the higher proportion of vegetarians than any other party, and the most in number. Labour are the party of vegetarians!
I've only said flouncing once! (twice now...) Hardly an obsession?!
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
More Roubles, Please.
Nah. The price paid in fury from the White House will not be worth the chance of a few million more in the already overheating London housing market.
This nonsense is pushing Kerry into being even more aggressive to make the Russians think the west is serious. He will not be a happy bunny.
The next time the Americans want to discuss tactics on this they will be picking up the phone to Angela Merkel, not London. That is a heavy price for a politico to bear.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
You're describing the privileged world in which our politicians live, and that includes your bog standard back bencher.
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
But has anyone?
Nope, because you have called it wrong
Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm not backing anyone up in this argument is that it looks paralysingly boring. Labour has a bigger/smaller % of some subgroup in some single poll. Whatever.
The next time the Americans want to discuss tactics on this they will be picking up the phone to Angela Merkel, not London. That is a heavy price for a politico to bear.
Er...
@faisalislam: The Warmer War: Putin winning on the economic front as Germans and Brits rule out trade sanctions: BLOG: http://t.co/t7GKQzR19C
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
But has anyone?
Nope, because you have called it wrong
Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm not backing anyone up in this argument is that it looks paralysingly boring. Labour has a bigger/smaller % of some subgroup in some single poll. Whatever.
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I'm also being suggested employment at the US Postal Service and how to access the President's homeowner bailout.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
You don't need to be on a six figure salary to spend that in London from time to time. Nothing like it.
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
More Roubles, Please.
Nah.
You've seen the picture by now I take it? With a document that just happened to be turned to that most revealing of pages.
What were the odds of that? Lucky, lucky journos. Who are always there with their telephoto lenses waiting for a sniff of a story when a crisis comes around.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
My favourite example of Insanely Casual PB Wealth was the time JackW was inquiring about nice areas of London in which to buy a townhouse.
I recommended Marylebone, then I found him a specific and rather lovely 5 bedder on rightmove. "However", I added, "it does cost £10 million."
JackW replied, with apparent sincerity, "that's not a problem."
Tis true ....
Hhmm for the old days of PB when one might fling around the odd £10M with impunity. I recall the pad. Close to Regents Park with a pool and mews house too. Rather fine.
We eventually found something a wee bit more modest for under half the price .... you know us Scots just love a bargain !!
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I'm also being suggested employment at the US Postal Service and how to access the President's homeowner bailout.
Ladies underwear, chainsaws and Canada for me. What can it mean?
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I'm also being suggested employment at the US Postal Service and how to access the President's homeowner bailout.
Ladies underwear, chainsaws and Canada for me. What can it mean?
My favourite example of Insanely Casual PB Wealth was the time JackW was inquiring about nice areas of London in which to buy a townhouse.
I recommended Marylebone, then I found him a specific and rather lovely 5 bedder on rightmove. "However", I added, "it does cost £10 million."
JackW replied, with apparent sincerity, "that's not a problem."
I recall something like that, although not word for word. It raises the hairs on my neck, literally and existentially, to think that that little memory along with innumerable others lies malleable, embedded in a squishy organ the size of two fists. But is it true? That's the sixty four quadrillion synaptic question.
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
But has anyone?
Nope, because you have called it wrong
Can't speak for anyone else, but the reason I'm not backing anyone up in this argument is that it looks paralysingly boring. Labour has a bigger/smaller % of some subgroup in some single poll. Whatever.
Fair enough Nick - but it is a poll of 14,000. I merely posted it in the first instance because it gave the lie to the idea that Labour is no longer the party of working people. But I agree it's dull for everyone else now so will desist.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
You don't need to be on a six figure salary to spend that in London from time to time. Nothing like it.
I didn't say you did. I just said it was the sort of thing people on six figure salaries do without blinking at the price on a regular basis that it would be easy to not think anything of it. I'm not trying to attack anyone for eating there. If I did, I'd be a hypocrite: Hakkasan is my favourite restaurant in London. But I'm just pointing out that if such places are casually referred without any reference to the price, it can make people who couldn't afford to eat there feel shit about their jobs. This is what is driving frustration at inequality in our political debate.
I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
Worrying, isn't it, especially as the ads are generated by your personal searches? My adverts urge me to sign up for 1200 internet connections (eh?) and take private medical insurance (spit!).
I'm also being suggested employment at the US Postal Service and how to access the President's homeowner bailout.
Ladies underwear, chainsaws and Canada for me. What can it mean?
I cut down trees, I skip and jump I love to press wild flow'rs I put on women's clothing And hang around in bars
Just as an aside looking at the Populus poll the ratios of upper class to lower class voters seems to be almost identical to the last Ashcroft poll.
63% of Tory voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 63% of Libdem voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 53% of Labour voters are ABC1 and 48% are C2DE 46% of UKIP supporters are ABC1 and 54% are C2DE
Who'd have thunk it. Nigel Farage a working class hero and Labour a party predominantly of the rich (the "Wicked Rich of The North" perhaps?)
Working Class Hero is something to be Working Class Hero is something to be
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
More Roubles, Please.
Nah.
You've seen the picture by now I take it? With a document that just happened to be turned to that most revealing of pages.
What were the odds of that? Lucky, lucky journos. Who are always there with their telephoto lenses waiting for a sniff of a story when a crisis comes around.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
If this guy was due to brief the PM there was probably something pretty revealing on every page, given that PMs don't do boring minutiae.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
You don't need to be on a six figure salary to spend that in London from time to time. Nothing like it.
I didn't say you did. I just said it was the sort of thing people on six figure salaries do without blinking at the price on a regular basis that it would be easy to not think anything of it. I'm not trying to attack anyone for eating there. If I did, I'd be a hypocrite: Hakkasan is my favourite restaurant in London. But I'm just pointing out that if such places are casually referred without any reference to the price, it can make people who couldn't afford to eat there feel shit about their jobs. This is what is driving frustration at inequality in our political debate.
Regarding casual talk about wealth, it's not as blatant as SeanT's example, but one from just the last weekend. I was at a party and people were talking about hobbies. One guy said that he loved to ski and tries to go to the French Alps whenever he can. He asked the person next to him if they skied and when they said no, he asked why not, as it was great fun. It just didn't seem to occur to him that most people wouldn't be able to afford to go on skiing holidays on a regularl basis.
My favourite example of Insanely Casual PB Wealth was the time JackW was inquiring about nice areas of London in which to buy a townhouse.
I recommended Marylebone, then I found him a specific and rather lovely 5 bedder on rightmove. "However", I added, "it does cost £10 million."
JackW replied, with apparent sincerity, "that's not a problem."
I recall something like that, although not word for word. It raises the hairs on my neck, literally and existentially, to think that that little memory along with innumerable others lies malleable, embedded in a squishy organ the size of two fists. But is it true? That's the sixty four quadrillion synaptic question.
I have no doubt your "squishy organ" will make a good fist of discerning the truth.
New thread please - I can't head off for an early night with "14 months to go and still no sign of a movement that could stop Ed Miliband becoming PM" still rattling around...
Mind you Putin might have annexed us by then I suppose (not independent Scotland though).
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Indeed. They were so upset they not only confirmed it but even gave it some more spin just in case the point had somehow been missed.
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
You'll notice they say he specialises in this. Not much call to specialise in something unless it has happened many times before, which it has. Something that Number 10 and the civil service can hardly have missed by now. A simple opaque folder is somehow beyond the wit of those in charge of and attending suposedly secret meetings? Your positing a level of incompetence that is off the charts. But if that's the kind of incompetence you want to believe is right there informing Cammie's strategic plans for a response to Putin then so be it.
Just as an aside looking at the Populus poll the ratios of upper class to lower class voters seems to be almost identical to the last Ashcroft poll.
63% of Tory voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 63% of Libdem voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 53% of Labour voters are ABC1 and 48% are C2DE 46% of UKIP supporters are ABC1 and 54% are C2DE
Who'd have thunk it. Nigel Farage a working class hero and Labour a party predominantly of the rich (the "Wicked Rich of The North" perhaps?)
Working Class Hero is something to be Working Class Hero is something to be
And yet those working classes will turn out for Labour in droves no doubt regardless.
Regarding casual talk about wealth, it's not as blatant as SeanT's example, but one from just the last weekend. I was at a party and people were talking about hobbies. One guy said that he loved to ski and tries to go to the French Alps whenever he can. He asked the person next to him if they skied and when they said no, he asked why not, as it was great fun. It just didn't seem to occur to him that most people wouldn't be able to afford to go on skiing holidays on a regularl basis.
I've always been around casual wealth and I'm not embarrassed by it.
However it's certainly true that PB sometimes lulls you into thinking it's an extended family and friends private club that at times almost obliges you to be less than discrete than normal. It's a small price to pay to be part of PB.
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
More Roubles, Please.
Nah.
You've seen the picture by now I take it? With a document that just happened to be turned to that most revealing of pages.
What were the odds of that? Lucky, lucky journos. Who are always there with their telephoto lenses waiting for a sniff of a story when a crisis comes around.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
If this guy was due to brief the PM there was probably something pretty revealing on every page, given that PMs don't do boring minutiae.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
I think the point that @Socrates was making (maybe I'm missing it) was that to talk in terms of fancy restaurants that cost a serious amount of money, even for their set menu lunches (which might be out of reach to someone on a low income whether for financial or logistic reasons) is to fall into the us/them trap from which the Cons are seemingly incapable of escaping. That it is bandied around so easily illustrates what a mountain the Cons have to climb.
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
Yes, quite. I think if the average Londoner was going to drop £40 per person on a meal, it would be because they were really treating themselves, and so probably would expect to include drinks or make an evening of it. I'm genuinely not trying to attack anyone here, but I just thought it was an example of how the wealthy drop comments about very expensive things as if it's nothing big, without any mental shock to the expense. I can certainly understand why it happens: if you're on a six figure salary, it's certainly the sort of nice thing to do on a regular basis and it's easy to refer to such things casually. But to people outside that world, it very easily contributes to the image that there's this whole society of people who have it amazingly good and that live in a different world to you. That has political implications.
You don't need to be on a six figure salary to spend that in London from time to time. Nothing like it.
Quite so. Makes me shudder to just think about dropping that kind of money for something like that. Even now I'm earning a decentish amount (given I have no dependents and family member rent rates) I blanche when Londoners discuss the price of things.
It is quite hard to see how the whole Ukranian mess will work out, but it has come out of the blue, not just for us but also for Putin.
It is perhaps the classic Black Swan event that changes everything. It is not yet clear what it changes it to, but it may not be so favourable to Miliband and/or Farage.
New thread please - I can't head off for an early night with "14 months to go and still no sign of a movement that could stop Ed Miliband becoming PM" still rattling around...
Mind you Putin might have annexed us by then I suppose (not independent Scotland though).
One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.
Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.
Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.
The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
Has it not occurred to you the leak was entirely deliberate? London Likes Russian Money.
More Roubles, Please.
Nah.
You've seen the picture by now I take it? With a document that just happened to be turned to that most revealing of pages.
What were the odds of that? Lucky, lucky journos. Who are always there with their telephoto lenses waiting for a sniff of a story when a crisis comes around.
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
If this guy was due to brief the PM there was probably something pretty revealing on every page, given that PMs don't do boring minutiae.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
My favourite example of Insanely Casual PB Wealth was the time JackW was inquiring about nice areas of London in which to buy a townhouse.
I recommended Marylebone, then I found him a specific and rather lovely 5 bedder on rightmove. "However", I added, "it does cost £10 million."
JackW replied, with apparent sincerity, "that's not a problem."
Tis true ....
Hhmm for the old days of PB when one might fling around the odd £10M with impunity. I recall the pad. Close to Regents Park with a pool and mews house too. Rather fine.
We eventually found something a wee bit more modest for under half the price .... you know us Scots just love a bargain !!
I make do with a tent. And if I wild camp, I don't get pitch fees.
Result!
(I also don't get a shower, but that's a small price to pay ...)
Ed Miliband is certainly lucky with the timing of all this. Imagine if this Ukraine situation had gone off during his proposed "energy price freeze". What would be the result of a massive hike in wholesale natural gas prices which the energy suppliers could not pass on?
Ed Miliband is certainly lucky with the timing of all this. Imagine if this Ukraine situation had gone off during his proposed "energy price freeze". What would be the result of a massive hike in wholesale natural gas prices which the energy suppliers could not pass on?
He would have been seen as protecting the people from the evil gas companies ?
It worked! Doesn't show your email address so I've replied briefly to the board! Drop me a line if you're down and would like to meet in May, as you know my email now.
We were expecting a ComRes poll this evening, but looks like it is out tomorrow evening now.
What they've done is released findings on do the voters prefer coalitions, by Mike's and my rough numbers, Labour's lead has increased from last month's 1% by looking at the raw numbers, but we're guessing and we'll know for sure tomorrow
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Indeed. They were so upset they not only confirmed it but even gave it some more spin just in case the point had somehow been missed.
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
You'll notice they say he specialises in this. Not much call to specialise in something unless it has happened many times before, which it has. Something that Number 10 and the civil service can hardly have missed by now. A simple opaque folder is somehow beyond the wit of those in charge of and attending suposedly secret meetings? Your positing a level of incompetence that is off the charts. But if that's the kind of incompetence you want to believe is right there informing Cammie's strategic plans for a response to Putin then so be it.
Sorry, but as a provincial in Northern Briton, I was not aware of a swanky restaurant in London conning people with Chinese minimalist cuisine at high prices. I just checked their web site)
I can still remember being taken to a lunch in a supposed Nouvelle Cuisine restaurant in Edinburgh when it was a fad, and having to go across the road afterwards to a McDonalds to get something (to be honest, anything) to eat.
But then again, as P T Barnum supposedly said "There is one born every minute"
Just as an aside looking at the Populus poll the ratios of upper class to lower class voters seems to be almost identical to the last Ashcroft poll.
63% of Tory voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 63% of Libdem voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE 53% of Labour voters are ABC1 and 48% are C2DE 46% of UKIP supporters are ABC1 and 54% are C2DE
Who'd have thunk it. Nigel Farage a working class hero and Labour a party predominantly of the rich (the "Wicked Rich of The North" perhaps?)
Working Class Hero is something to be Working Class Hero is something to be
And yet those working classes will turn out for Labour in droves no doubt regardless.
No doubt indeed. There is not a lot you can do about the "Red Zombie" vote
The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.
The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.
It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".
Weird and funny thing if you've been following any newspaper comment threads on Ukraine. There's pro-russkie and anti-russkie astroturfers pretending to be brits plus various actual brits coming at it from various directions. Over time the astroturfers have been adopting some of the angles from the brits but because they don't get who is who they are coming out with bits of leftie reasons for being anti-intervention mangled together with bits of Ukip reasons for being anti-intervention mangled with Russkie reasons. I find it funny anyway.
The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
My favourite example of Insanely Casual PB Wealth was the time JackW was inquiring about nice areas of London in which to buy a townhouse.
I recommended Marylebone, then I found him a specific and rather lovely 5 bedder on rightmove. "However", I added, "it does cost £10 million."
JackW replied, with apparent sincerity, "that's not a problem."
Tis true ....
Hhmm for the old days of PB when one might fling around the odd £10M with impunity. I recall the pad. Close to Regents Park with a pool and mews house too. Rather fine.
We eventually found something a wee bit more modest for under half the price .... you know us Scots just love a bargain !!
I make do with a tent. And if I wild camp, I don't get pitch fees.
Result!
(I also don't get a shower, but that's a small price to pay ...)
:-)
Titters ....
You get pitch discounts for being gay ?? .... I've never thought of you as wildly camp .... but we learn little morsels about PBers all the time.
I had no idea that my restaurant recommendation was going to spark pb class war.
I thought it was a fairly polite and civilized discussion, by pb's standards. Once again, I wasn't trying to attack you: it was just the latest in a number of examples I've heard recently, so I picked up on it.
I had no idea that my restaurant recommendation was going to spark pb class war.
I thought it was a fairly polite and civilized discussion, by pb's standards. Once again, I wasn't trying to attack you: it was just the latest in a number of examples I've heard recently, so I picked up on it.
I didn't take it the wrong way.
I'm well aware I'm very fortunate. Though my plans for the summer hang in the balance. I'd set aside a week to visit part of Ukraine. This year might not be ideal for that.
Comments
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests."
Sounds far more like a targeted leak to calm the city rather than a mistake.
For all PBers
Mike has made it abundantly clear in the past to some posters in private that using sex related crimes to insult other posters is unacceptable.
So this warning is shared with you all.
Please stick to the spirit of this ruling.
http://politicalbetting.vanillaforums.com/discussion/comment/230227/#Comment_230227
When it really is embarrassing incompetence and not deliberate you can expect those who do it to get an earful from their boss and for them to be put on a very short leash after their inept blundering. It still doesn't excuse giving even very limited power to those who are incapable of using it without making a fool of themselves.
An opaque document carrier or even just a binder is of course the very least that you would expect.
In @Bobafett land, yes they could
The idea that the EU could prise The Ukraine away from Russia's sphere of influence by supporting a coup d'état by the Maidan protestors was badly flawed. If for no other reason than, if successful, it would have landed the EU with the obligation of eastward enlargement without full consideration of its merits.
If anything positive is to come out of the crisis it will be a recognition by the EU that future discussions on eastward expansion have to include Russia, if not as a candidate EU member by itself (which may be a long term goal) but as a supporting godfather to any EU involvement with its Eastern slavic neighbours, the Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus.
A positive diplomatic relationship with Russia (which before the Ukraine crisis was building over Syria and Iran) is far more important than wasteing time with token reprisals and punishments for Russia's aggression in the Crimea and, potentially, Southern and Eastern Ukraine.
Ukip the exact reverse.
Unless and until you deny this, I won't waste my time debating you*
*note my lack of unpleasant personal remarks.
I am trying to help you out,because you keep embarrassing yourself by carrying on... it is no wonder you are trying to get me to insult you so you can pretend to be upset and flounce off
I admitted that point down thread, but it is misleading to the point of being a quasi lie
If Labour had a membership of 100,000 and 1,000 of them were vegetarians, could they legitimately claim to be more representative of non meat eaters than The Vegetarian Party, whose membership of 1000 consisted of 999 vegetarians and one who had relapsed?
Admit you called it completely wrong and I wont make you look any more silly x
They cannot see far less understand the terms in which poorer people see the things (and fancy restaurants are one such example) that they might take for granted. It is a bit let them eat cake.
£40 a head and you don't even get a pint!
It's not solely a 'Tory Thing'.
You are the one who has called it wrong!
Substitute working people for vegetarians.
They have the higher proportion of vegetarians than any other party, and the most in number.
Labour are the party of vegetarians!
Labour have the highest proportion of working people (vegetarians) AND the highest in absolute numbers. That's the beginning and end of this. I am bored.
You would need to be working for a Food Bank to afford that, Topping.
Tickets for the football sell to plenty of working folk, for much the same price as lunch at this place. You pays your money and makes your choice.
I have admitted twice that you are not incorrect in what you say about absolute numbers, but it is as misleading as to be a lie.. the fact that no one is backing you up should be enough to make you realise that you making a fool of yourself... if I were wrong, numerous lefties would be gleefully pointing it out
Maybe as a newcomer to the site, you don't realise that...
But has anyone?
Nope, because you have called it wrong
Being known to buy such kits as presents (they go down as well as kitchen aprons) I almost followed the link.
But then it may be something to do with the conspiracy theory sites I frequent.
Don't be a sore loser
This nonsense is pushing Kerry into being even more aggressive to make the Russians think the west is serious. He will not be a happy bunny.
The next time the Americans want to discuss tactics on this they will be picking up the phone to Angela Merkel, not London. That is a heavy price for a politico to bear.
Proof: They've got more points
Arsenal P28 59pts
Man City P26 57pts
Copyright @Bobafett
Who is right?
a. Sam
b. Bob
@faisalislam: The Warmer War: Putin winning on the economic front as Germans and Brits rule out trade sanctions: BLOG: http://t.co/t7GKQzR19C
What were the odds of that? Lucky, lucky journos. Who are always there with their telephoto lenses waiting for a sniff of a story when a crisis comes around.
Hhmm for the old days of PB when one might fling around the odd £10M with impunity. I recall the pad. Close to Regents Park with a pool and mews house too. Rather fine.
We eventually found something a wee bit more modest for under half the price .... you know us Scots just love a bargain !!
Better luck next time x
Retweeted 399 times
BBC News (World) @BBCWorld Mar 2
Russia behaving "in 19th-Century fashion by invading another country on completely trumped up pretext" - John Kerry http://bbc.in/1daZVAW
John Kerry seems to be doing an excellent job of making Hillary look good in retrospect.
But I agree it's dull for everyone else now so will desist.
As my teenage daughter put it some years ago what sort of nutter wants to separate us from that?
As SeanT said, Evan Davis' documentary on London vs The Rest is shaping up very well indeed.
I love to press wild flow'rs
I put on women's clothing
And hang around in bars
63% of Tory voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE
63% of Libdem voters are ABC1 and 37% are C2DE
53% of Labour voters are ABC1 and 48% are C2DE
46% of UKIP supporters are ABC1 and 54% are C2DE
Who'd have thunk it. Nigel Farage a working class hero and Labour a party predominantly of the rich (the "Wicked Rich of The North" perhaps?)
Working Class Hero is something to be
Working Class Hero is something to be
If this guy was due to brief the PM there was probably something pretty revealing on every page, given that PMs don't do boring minutiae.
And it's one specific lucky journo acc to the Grauniad:
"The picture of the document was taken by the freelance photographer Steve Back, who specialises in spotting secret documents carried openly by officials entering Downing Street."
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document
Yep - the greatest city in the world looking scintillating in HD.
Retire now! Your post reaches a high you can never hope to repeat.
But I don't think I could live there now. If I was 30 years younger and child free I think I would find it irresistable.
Mind you Putin might have annexed us by then I suppose (not independent Scotland though).
"Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document"
You'll notice they say he specialises in this. Not much call to specialise in something unless it has happened many times before, which it has. Something that Number 10 and the civil service can hardly have missed by now. A simple opaque folder is somehow beyond the wit of those in charge of and attending suposedly secret meetings? Your positing a level of incompetence that is off the charts. But if that's the kind of incompetence you want to believe is right there informing Cammie's strategic plans for a response to Putin then so be it.
However it's certainly true that PB sometimes lulls you into thinking it's an extended family and friends private club that at times almost obliges you to be less than discrete than normal. It's a small price to pay to be part of PB.
It's economy increasingly got less and less to do with the rest of the UK. It is more interested in New York, Beijing and Frankfurt than Newcastle.
Is this a good thing? Beyond any shadow of a doubt.
It is perhaps the classic Black Swan event that changes everything. It is not yet clear what it changes it to, but it may not be so favourable to Miliband and/or Farage.
Edit. I have replied (I hope).
11 hours 11 minutes 11 seconds
Result!
(I also don't get a shower, but that's a small price to pay ...)
:-)
Imagine if this Ukraine situation had gone off during his proposed "energy price freeze".
What would be the result of a massive hike in wholesale natural gas prices which the energy suppliers could not pass on?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/26427290
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead stretches to nine points: CON 32, LAB 41, LD 8, UKIP 12
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead stretches to nine points: CON 32, LAB 41, LD 8, UKIP 12
twitter.com/PSbook/status/440442714761334785/photo/1
Lol. :-)
Sun Politics@Sun_Politics·36 secs
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead stretches to nine points: CON 32, LAB 41, LD 8, UKIP 12
Sun Politics @Sun_Politics 1m
YouGov/Sun poll tonight - Labour lead stretches to nine points: CON 32, LAB 41, LD 8, UKIP 12
What they've done is released findings on do the voters prefer coalitions, by Mike's and my rough numbers, Labour's lead has increased from last month's 1% by looking at the raw numbers, but we're guessing and we'll know for sure tomorrow
http://comres.co.uk/poll/1106/independent-political-poll.htm
Sorry, but as a provincial in Northern Briton, I was not aware of a swanky restaurant in London conning people with Chinese minimalist cuisine at high prices. I just checked their web site)
I can still remember being taken to a lunch in a supposed Nouvelle Cuisine restaurant in Edinburgh when it was a fad, and having to go across the road afterwards to a McDonalds to get something (to be honest, anything) to eat.
But then again, as P T Barnum supposedly said "There is one born every minute"
This way to the Egress!
Evan Davies is the best thing to happen to the Today program for a very long time.
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2010/1/8/1262962773146/goal-hanging-squirrel-001.jpg
Since compouter isn't about.
@AndyJS's forecast already bust*
*I jest
Firstly, it is the umpteenth time that someone has been photographed carrying a sensitive document into no 10.
Secondly, on this occasion, it is a matter of national security.
You get pitch discounts for being gay ?? .... I've never thought of you as wildly camp .... but we learn little morsels about PBers all the time.
I'm well aware I'm very fortunate. Though my plans for the summer hang in the balance. I'd set aside a week to visit part of Ukraine. This year might not be ideal for that.