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  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    IpsosMORI Indyref poll:

    For most voters, the announcement of any future currency union appears to have had little effect with 56% saying that it would not impact on how they would vote in the referendum. The announcement also appears to have persuaded very few committed ‘Yes’ or ‘No’ voters to change their minds. However, among undecided voters, around a third (34%) think that the announcement will make them more likely to vote ‘No’ while 16% report that it makes them more likely to vote ‘Yes’ and 44% say it has had no impact.

    http://www.ipsos-mori.com/researchpublications/researcharchive/3349/No-retains-lead-as-referendum-campaigns-enter-final-200-days.aspx
  • CharlesCharles Posts: 35,758
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Boris hasn't ruled out returning as an MP next year.

    These are the seats available at the moment:

    Cannock Chase
    Erewash
    South Ribble
    Thanet S
    Hampshire NW
    Suffolk S
    Thirsk & Malton

    The only two that look suitable for him are Hampshire NW and Suffolk S.

    I hope not Hampshire NW. They deserve better than an MP with zero interest in his constituency
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    TGOHF said:

    Pork keen to engage with thoughts on Ukranians but not polls - especially IM ones..

    I expect he's as keen on Russia Today as the SNP are.....

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/why-are-the-snp-so-relaxed-about-dancing-to-the-kremlins-tune/comment-page-1/
    Shock horror , SNP go on news programme. Pathetic drivel. Keep up the good work.
  • CarlottaVanceCarlottaVance Posts: 60,216
    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pork keen to engage with thoughts on Ukranians but not polls - especially IM ones..

    I expect he's as keen on Russia Today as the SNP are.....

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/why-are-the-snp-so-relaxed-about-dancing-to-the-kremlins-tune/comment-page-1/
    Shock horror , SNP go on news programme. Pathetic drivel. Keep up the good work.
    You don't think the fondness of the SNP for Russia's state broadcaster is not relevant today? I expect they like it for the impartial coverage......

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pork keen to engage with thoughts on Ukranians but not polls - especially IM ones..

    I expect he's as keen on Russia Today as the SNP are.....

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/why-are-the-snp-so-relaxed-about-dancing-to-the-kremlins-tune/comment-page-1/
    Shock horror , SNP go on news programme. Pathetic drivel. Keep up the good work.
    You don't think the fondness of the SNP for Russia's state broadcaster is not relevant today? I expect they like it for the impartial coverage......

    It is far more impartial than the BBC
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited March 2014
    MikeL said:

    Not sure if anyone follows the Wiki list of opinion polls but a shame that whoever compiles it has managed to make a complete mess of it in the last week.

    YouGov Sunday Times 21 Feb - missing
    Populus 23 Feb - missing
    Populus 28 Feb - data all wrong
    YouGov Sunday Times 28 Feb - data all wrong

    Don't know if anyone can fix this but if we are trying to follow trends it really would help if the data was compiled correctly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    I believe the wiki dates refer to the research date, rather than the publication date. Does that change the missing Populus?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Interesting that Labour has the most in work, the LDs the second most. The Tory reliance on pensioners is striking - hence their desperation to get UKIPers back on board, presumably.


  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.

    Being a member of the EU is a drag on the UK economy.

    http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/430571/REVEALED-How-Britain-is-170bn-worse-off-in-European-Union

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100170980/what-a-cost-benefit-analysis-of-eu-membership-might-reveal/

    http://businessforbritain.org/research/
  • surbitonsurbiton Posts: 13,549
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    Or, many people on welfare are poor and they feel Labour is on their side !
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,567
    Charles said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Boris hasn't ruled out returning as an MP next year.

    These are the seats available at the moment:

    Cannock Chase
    Erewash
    South Ribble
    Thanet S
    Hampshire NW
    Suffolk S
    Thirsk & Malton

    The only two that look suitable for him are Hampshire NW and Suffolk S.

    I hope not Hampshire NW. They deserve better than an MP with zero interest in his constituency
    There's an almost-denial here

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-says-he-sticking-to-his-job-as-mayor-amid-more-talk-of-a-run-for-parliament-9165594.html

    though I agree it's the usual Boris guff and he could stand anyway and say hey, he hadn't been thinking of it, but now he is. People wouldn't believe it, but they wouldn't care either.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.

    Previously you said it seemed a lot of Kippers are retired. If true then they would have worked and run businesses and know only too well the havoc caused by the EU and their bureaucratic nonsense.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pork keen to engage with thoughts on Ukranians but not polls - especially IM ones..

    I expect he's as keen on Russia Today as the SNP are.....

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/why-are-the-snp-so-relaxed-about-dancing-to-the-kremlins-tune/comment-page-1/
    Shock horror , SNP go on news programme. Pathetic drivel. Keep up the good work.
    You don't think the fondness of the SNP for Russia's state broadcaster is not relevant today? I expect they like it for the impartial coverage......

    I can't speak for the SNP or for Russia Today, so won't get involved in that (except that neither you nor that website provide comparative data for other UK politicians, so for all we know the SNP are underrepresented). But you ought to know that the BBC have not only been outed as biased but have backed down in some confusion after trying to bluff that academic into withdrawing his analysis of their bias in the independence referendum coverage. And the analyst is now a full Professor. e.g.

    http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/bbc-can-we-just-let-it-go-now/

  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited March 2014

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if anyone follows the Wiki list of opinion polls but a shame that whoever compiles it has managed to make a complete mess of it in the last week.

    YouGov Sunday Times 21 Feb - missing
    Populus 23 Feb - missing
    Populus 28 Feb - data all wrong
    YouGov Sunday Times 28 Feb - data all wrong

    Don't know if anyone can fix this but if we are trying to follow trends it really would help if the data was compiled correctly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    I believe the wiki dates refer to the research date, rather than the publication date. Does that change the missing Populus?
    No. The dates in my post are the end date of the research.

    My post is correct.

    Populus 13 Feb is also missing.

    So in just the last 3 weeks we have 3 polls completely missing from the list and 2 polls with completely wrong data.

  • ...........
    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.
    Such relative percentages are misleading because chances are that Labour is supported by over half the unemployed sample in that poll.

    For example if you have a sample of 1000 voters who are split Lab 39% Con 32% LD 9% UKIP 13% and you then calculate the numbers of unemployed for each party based on the shares indicated in the mail graphic you then get the following cross breaks for the unemployed demographic:

    Lab 63%
    Con 22.5%
    LD 1.5%
    UKIP 12%

    Looking at it that way provides a rather different picture don't you think?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672
    edited March 2014
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare

    Labour is ahead in the polls and has most supporters among people in work. Therefore, it has more support among working people than any other party currently - and many, many more than UKIP. Clearly, Labour supporters are able to understand that being unemployed does not make you a feckless sponger. Labour voters are also working to pay taxes that ensure UKIP's elderly voting demographic are kept above the breadline. Labour should be proud to be a party that supports the idea of welfare and state pensions.

  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I do hope this is just the advice from the "ruffle no feathers" mandarins in the Foreign Office, and not the position of Her Majesty's Government:

    Meanwhile, an official document says the UK government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow.

    The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians".


    No economic sanctions, no financial sanctions, no military sanctions would be an utter surrender to Russia's imperialism. What's left, not turning up at the Paralympics?
  • SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 39,672

    ...........

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.
    Such relative percentages are misleading because chances are that Labour is supported by over half the unemployed sample in that poll.

    For example if you have a sample of 1000 voters who are split Lab 39% Con 32% LD 9% UKIP 13% and you then calculate the numbers of unemployed for each party based on the shares indicated in the mail graphic you then get the following cross breaks for the unemployed demographic:

    Lab 63%
    Con 22.5%
    LD 1.5%
    UKIP 12%

    Looking at it that way provides a rather different picture don't you think?

    What is so wrong with being unemployed?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BobaFett said:

    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.

    People that can't find work are going to be less concerned with economic opportunities than those in work? What sort of planet do you live on?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    The Daily Mail really are crap at headlines. They say "almost all Ukip voters are white and retired" but a graph in the same article shows that 40% of UKIP voters are aged 18-54.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now. The West's comments seem focused on "not another inch beyond Crimea", while Medvedev is talking about building a bridge across the Straits of Kerch, which they wouldn't need if they were moving on to the rest of the eastern Ukraine. If nobody starts shooting, things may rest there for the forseeable future with much grumbling but no actual fighting. If.

    Too optimistic? Just allowing a little territorial annexation of a neighbour's country? Is this seriously the standard of our political class these days?
  • anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    MikeL said:

    MikeL said:

    Not sure if anyone follows the Wiki list of opinion polls but a shame that whoever compiles it has managed to make a complete mess of it in the last week.

    YouGov Sunday Times 21 Feb - missing
    Populus 23 Feb - missing
    Populus 28 Feb - data all wrong
    YouGov Sunday Times 28 Feb - data all wrong

    Don't know if anyone can fix this but if we are trying to follow trends it really would help if the data was compiled correctly.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_general_election

    I believe the wiki dates refer to the research date, rather than the publication date. Does that change the missing Populus?
    No. The dates in my post are the end date of the research.

    My post is correct.

    Populus 13 Feb is also missing.

    So in just the last 3 weeks we have 3 polls completely missing from the list and 2 polls with completely wrong data.

    If you have the details for the missing polls, perhaps you could edit the page and add them?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014
    Jonny ‏@tweetwithjonny 12m

    "No trade sanctions against #Russia" Photo taken of documents going into @Number10gov #c4news pic.twitter.com/n9fMTo8LnX


    Breaking News ‏@InfosNews 15m

    Leaked document shows Britain will not support trade sanctions against Russia. pic.twitter.com/2Kx4qjEEiT #Ukraine #Crimea Via @itvnews
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Carnyx said:

    malcolmg said:

    TGOHF said:

    Pork keen to engage with thoughts on Ukranians but not polls - especially IM ones..

    I expect he's as keen on Russia Today as the SNP are.....

    http://www.leftfootforward.org/2014/02/why-are-the-snp-so-relaxed-about-dancing-to-the-kremlins-tune/comment-page-1/
    Shock horror , SNP go on news programme. Pathetic drivel. Keep up the good work.
    You don't think the fondness of the SNP for Russia's state broadcaster is not relevant today? I expect they like it for the impartial coverage......

    I can't speak for the SNP or for Russia Today, so won't get involved in that (except that neither you nor that website provide comparative data for other UK politicians, so for all we know the SNP are underrepresented). But you ought to know that the BBC have not only been outed as biased but have backed down in some confusion after trying to bluff that academic into withdrawing his analysis of their bias in the independence referendum coverage. And the analyst is now a full Professor. e.g.

    http://derekbateman1.wordpress.com/2014/02/08/bbc-can-we-just-let-it-go-now/

    Carnyx, Carlotta has no truck with the truth if it does not fit her vitriolic hatred of SNP and Scotland. Any lie will suffice.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    A very high proportion. It's just that some would have to make many, many more sacrifices elsewhere to do so.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,723
    edited March 2014

    If you have the details for the missing polls, perhaps you could edit the page and add them?

    Sorry but I have no idea how to do that - I clicked on edit and was presented with a whole mass of type which I don't understand. I also have no idea how to do the formatting.

    All of the polls are correctly listed on UKPR.
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    edited March 2014
    Socrates said:

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now. The West's comments seem focused on "not another inch beyond Crimea", while Medvedev is talking about building a bridge across the Straits of Kerch, which they wouldn't need if they were moving on to the rest of the eastern Ukraine. If nobody starts shooting, things may rest there for the forseeable future with much grumbling but no actual fighting. If.

    Too optimistic? Just allowing a little territorial annexation of a neighbour's country? Is this seriously the standard of our political class these days?
    If you're so concerned, why not quit whining, man up, and get yourself out there as a volunteer fighter for the Free Ukrainian Army?
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Interesting that more Labour voters have children than are married...
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.

    People that can't find work are going to be less concerned with economic opportunities than those in work? What sort of planet do you live on?
    What on earth are you talking about? Look at the chart - Ukip has a very high proportion of retirees, hence my point...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    ...........

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.
    Such relative percentages are misleading because chances are that Labour is supported by over half the unemployed sample in that poll.

    For example if you have a sample of 1000 voters who are split Lab 39% Con 32% LD 9% UKIP 13% and you then calculate the numbers of unemployed for each party based on the shares indicated in the mail graphic you then get the following cross breaks for the unemployed demographic:

    Lab 63%
    Con 22.5%
    LD 1.5%
    UKIP 12%

    Looking at it that way provides a rather different picture don't you think?

    What is so wrong with being unemployed?
    Good question.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,498
    Mick_Pork said:

    Jonny ‏@tweetwithjonny 12m

    "No trade sanctions against #Russia" Photo taken of documents going into @Number10gov #c4news pic.twitter.com/n9fMTo8LnX


    Breaking News ‏@InfosNews 15m

    Leaked document shows Britain will not support trade sanctions against Russia. pic.twitter.com/2Kx4qjEEiT #Ukraine #Crimea Via @itvnews

    LOL, the cowardy custard gang are good at keeping promises. Better Together right enough, some much better than others as usual.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The Twiplomat ‏@twiplomat May 10

    Putin/Cameron Press Conference: Putin says volume of British investment in Russia has reached 26.7 billion dollars

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UldT9FhyAls
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
    You realise that many unemployed people worked at one point and paid into the system right?
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
    You realise that many unemployed people worked at one point and paid into the system right?
    Many? Not all of them then?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    Interesting that more Labour voters have children than are married...

    Not as interesting as the fact they command more working people than any other party. Now that is interesting. And not what you would expect if you listened to many people on here.
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    Anyway, it seems that some of our more Russophile posters are happy enough with salami.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322



    Many? Not all of them then?

    There's an easy way to make it's all of them in future: once you're past 21, you have to have three years of contributions to get each six months of benefits...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    The position, if true, to not take any action on Russian money in the London financial system is just another case of this government looking after the bankers first, and everything else second.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now. The West's comments seem focused on "not another inch beyond Crimea", while Medvedev is talking about building a bridge across the Straits of Kerch, which they wouldn't need if they were moving on to the rest of the eastern Ukraine. If nobody starts shooting, things may rest there for the forseeable future with much grumbling but no actual fighting. If.

    The reports of invading Russian tank columns seem to have been a bit exaggerated.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.

    The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.

    It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26426969

    Sounds like the warmongers and chickenhawks are wasting their time. As usual.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Boris hasn't ruled out returning as an MP next year.

    These are the seats available at the moment:

    Cannock Chase
    Erewash
    South Ribble
    Thanet S
    Hampshire NW
    Suffolk S
    Thirsk & Malton

    The only two that look suitable for him are Hampshire NW and Suffolk S.

    A show down between Boris and Farage in Thanet S would be good theatre.

    Might need Farage to declare his candidacy first though.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Interestingly Labour has the most even geographical distribution, again not what you would read on here.
    Stunned to see half of all Tories are over 65. Astounding.

    The poll should a sticky on the site - would solve a few arguments.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    Anyway, it seems that some of our more Russophile posters are happy enough with salami.
    I'm not being mean, but wouldn't it be hitting £150 for two at that place?
  • AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340
    Mick_Pork said:

    The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.

    The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.

    It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26426969

    Sounds like the warmongers and chickenhawks are wasting their time. As usual.

    Will the senior official lose their job as a result of such a shocking breach of confidentiality? It's hardly the first time that information or advice has been leaked in this way.

    I'm not holding my breath.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
    You realise that many unemployed people worked at one point and paid into the system right?
    Many? Not all of them then?
    Not all of them. Just the same with pensioners...
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    I'm intrigued at the advertising profiling on this site. I'm being asked to vote for Ted Cruz and to support the Clinton Foundation in Africa...
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014
    antifrank said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.

    The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.

    It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26426969

    Sounds like the warmongers and chickenhawks are wasting their time. As usual.

    Will the senior official lose their job as a result of such a shocking breach of confidentiality? It's hardly the first time that information or advice has been leaked in this way.

    I'm not holding my breath.
    It just happened to be that page turned and in view of the usual bunch of paps and journos arrayed outside number 10 looking for a story or quote on a developing crisis.

    Somewhat fortuitous for the journos to say the least.

    [EDIT] IIRC there might even have been an amusing phrase for this kind of leaking termed by Spads and spinners. I'll see if I can find it.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    My uncle worked all his life as a social worker down here. He also ate at great restaurants from time to time, being a gastrophile. When asked how he could afford to he said: I have a small flat, I don't run a car, I have a tiny TV, and I have no other hobbies.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,709
    AveryLP said:

    AndyJS said:

    Apparently Boris hasn't ruled out returning as an MP next year.

    These are the seats available at the moment:

    Cannock Chase
    Erewash
    South Ribble
    Thanet S
    Hampshire NW
    Suffolk S
    Thirsk & Malton

    The only two that look suitable for him are Hampshire NW and Suffolk S.

    A show down between Boris and Farage in Thanet S would be good theatre.

    Might need Farage to declare his candidacy first though.
    Suffolk S's complaint about their current MP is that he's not sufficiently involved with the consituency……..
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,683
    BobaFett said:

    That the Kippers have the lowest proportion who are in work stands to reason - if you don't work or run a business I guess you care less about the economic consequences of leaving the EU. Fascinating chart from Populus.

    Logic failure there of course, given that leaving the EU is likely to improve our economic outlook rather than damage it.
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    My uncle worked all his life as a social worker down here. He also ate at great restaurants from time to time, being a gastrophile. When asked how he could afford to he said: I have a small flat, I don't run a car, I have a tiny TV, and I have no other hobbies.
    I haven't been able to validate it online, but I think it's about £150 for two at that place. That's about a third of the week's after tax earnings for the average Londoner.
  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800
    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
    You realise that many unemployed people worked at one point and paid into the system right?
    Many? Not all of them then?
    Not all of them. Just the same with pensioners...
    Lots of pensioners have never worked?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now. The West's comments seem focused on "not another inch beyond Crimea", while Medvedev is talking about building a bridge across the Straits of Kerch, which they wouldn't need if they were moving on to the rest of the eastern Ukraine. If nobody starts shooting, things may rest there for the forseeable future with much grumbling but no actual fighting. If.

    It is being too optimistic, Nick.

    Insofar as anyone can divine Putin's mind, I think the strategy is emerging as follows.

    - Secure total control of Crimea through the government of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, including the transfer of all military forces to ARC control.

    - Demonstrate Crimea's loyalty to Russia and desire for secession through referendum at end March.

    - Use the Crimea as a example to other pro-Russian regions located in Eastern Ukraine. Only intervene with military if provoked by Ukrainian nationalist forces. The expectation would be that the local administrations will follow Crimea's line without undue civil unrest.

    - Maintain that the current Ukrainian government is illegitimate and call for new elections involving all regions and interests. Refuse to negotiate directly with Kiev government and use Crimea to demonstrate the consequences not acceding to Russia's "reasonable demands" with the implied threat of secession.

    - Secure international agreement with US and EU for new elections and an economic support plan for the Ukraine (probably less Crimea).

    - If international agreement and economic support plan not forthcoming push ahead with secession by holding regional referendums in all the pro-Russian administrative areas.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
    If you think saying "only two points above the mean" is valid when the mean is only so high because of Labours high score, then you must be completely numerically illiterate
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    RE: Can't find the phrase for leaking by docu photo but it's something along the lines of 'papsnapping'.
  • AndyJSAndyJS Posts: 29,395
    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    Surely that depends on how long they might decide to save up for it.
  • Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 32,683
    antifrank said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    The government will not curb trade with Russia or close London's financial centre to Russians as part of any possible package of sanctions against Moscow, according to an official document.

    The document, which was photographed as a senior official carried it into a meeting in Downing Street, says that "the UK should not support for now trade sanctions or close London's financial centre to Russians", while it confirms that ministers ARE considering - along with other EU countries - visa restrictions and travel bans on key Russian figures.

    It also says that ministers should "discourage any discussion (eg at Nato) of contingency military preparations" and support "contingency EU work on providing Ukraine with alternative gas" and oil supplies "if Russia cuts them off".

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-26426969

    Sounds like the warmongers and chickenhawks are wasting their time. As usual.

    Will the senior official lose their job as a result of such a shocking breach of confidentiality? It's hardly the first time that information or advice has been leaked in this way.

    I'm not holding my breath.
    I agree with you on that. Whichever side of the debate you are on the idea that the UK government's position on dealing with a serious crisis could be compromised by leaks like this is very worrying.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    A huge amount more on pensions I would have though Boba
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
    If you think saying "only two points above the mean" is valid when the mean is only so high because of Labours high score, then you must be completely numerically illiterate
    Touchy! All of the parties have none-working voters in the range 5-15%. What I pointed out initially is that Labour have the highest share of working people (and the highest absolute number) and Ukip the lowest. That's one for you to mull over in between making unpleasant comments.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    @SO

    Indeed Labour supporters are paying for the state pensions of Kippers and Tories, and quite right too.

    @Isam - what proportion of welfare spending do you think is on pensions and what on dole?

    You realise that people who are now retired at one point worked and paid into the system, right?
    You realise that many unemployed people worked at one point and paid into the system right?
    Many? Not all of them then?
    Not all of them. Just the same with pensioners...
    Lots of pensioners have never worked?
    Not all pensioners have worked. Which is what your post was about re: unemployed.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare

    Labour is ahead in the polls and has most supporters among people in work. Therefore, it has more support among working people than any other party currently - and many, many more than UKIP. Clearly, Labour supporters are able to understand that being unemployed does not make you a feckless sponger. Labour voters are also working to pay taxes that ensure UKIP's elderly voting demographic are kept above the breadline. Labour should be proud to be a party that supports the idea of welfare and state pensions.

    Well seeing as they poll 3 times the amount of UKIP I would like to think they do have more people working! So what?

    They also have many more people who aren't in work than UKIP, but that would be as ridiculous an argument from me as it just was from you!

    I haven't called anyone a feckless sponger why say that?
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Mick_Pork said:

    RE: Can't find the phrase for leaking by docu photo but it's something along the lines of 'papsnapping'.

    Pork

    I doubt the use of the word "pap" in such context.

    My recollection of its Jacobean usage is of an entirely different primary meaning. Take for example the famous speech of Sir Epicure Mammon in Ben Jonson's "The Alchemist":

    My foot-boy shall eat pheasants, calver'd salmons,
    Knots, godwits, lampreys: I myself will have
    The beards of barbels served, instead of sallads;
    Oil'd mushrooms; and the swelling unctuous paps
    Of a fat pregnant sow, newly cut off,
    Drest with an exquisite, and poignant sauce;
    For which, I'll say unto my cook, There's gold,
    Go forth, and be a knight.


    Almost Salmondesque in its grandeur and love of the high life.

  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Crikey this Populus poll has rattled the Right. Many of their myths about the Left have been exploded.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    My uncle worked all his life as a social worker down here. He also ate at great restaurants from time to time, being a gastrophile. When asked how he could afford to he said: I have a small flat, I don't run a car, I have a tiny TV, and I have no other hobbies.
    I haven't been able to validate it online, but I think it's about £150 for two at that place. That's about a third of the week's after tax earnings for the average Londoner.
    You do grasp that foodies save up to go to these fantastic places?
  • TheWatcherTheWatcher Posts: 5,262
    BobaFett said:

    Crikey this Populus poll has rattled the Right. Many of their myths about the Left have been exploded.

    Have any of them announced that they're not posting after today, and flounced off?

  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014

    I agree with you on that. Whichever side of the debate you are on the idea that the UK government's position on dealing with a serious crisis could be compromised by leaks like this is very worrying.

    Nothing unusual about leaking during a crisis or even an imminent military conflict. I seem to recall one Alastair Campbell doing more than his fair share of that kind of thing before, during and after the Iraq invasion.
    Alastair Campbell was an "unguided missile" who leaked information from MI6 to journalists in his attempts to justify the invasion of Iraq, according to a senior intelligence officer who gave evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry.

    Right-wing parts of the British media, including those print titles in Rupert Murdoch’s News International stable, were regularly supplied with material by Tony Blair’s chief spin doctor in the run up to the war.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/alastair-campbell-leaks-were-unguided-missile-ahead-of-iraq-war-2314011.html
    I also seem to recall one Dr David Kelly being on the receiving end of his leaks.
    Campbell 'proposed press leak to expose Kelly

    Alastair Campbell suggested leaking to a newspaper details that could aid the identification of David Kelly two days before the scientist's name became public, the Hutton Inquiry heard yesterday.

    Mr Campbell, the Downing Street director of communications, made no mention in his evidence to the inquiry of his proposal, aired during a telephone conversation with Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary. Mr Hoon did not immediately reject the idea.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1439370/Campbell-proposed-press-leak-to-expose-Kelly.html
    I would suggest that fear of a growing and spreading economic crisis is most likely behind these latest moves.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 2014
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
    If you think saying "only two points above the mean" is valid when the mean is only so high because of Labours high score, then you must be completely numerically illiterate
    Touchy! All of the parties have none-working voters in the range 5-15%. What I pointed out initially is that Labour have the highest share of working people (and the highest absolute number) and Ukip the lowest. That's one for you to mull over in between making unpleasant comments.
    Your misreading of that poll is making you look really silly

    Divide the "working" by the total "working" and "not working" for each party...
  • FluffyThoughtsFluffyThoughts Posts: 2,420

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now.

    What is the term: "Unspoofable"...?

    http://www.theguardian.com/books/2012/oct/02/sven-hassel

    Socialism rampaging over Europe; sanctity in Scandinavia....
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 665
    Nigel4England

    Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.

    So please drop your line of posting.

    MickPork

    Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    My uncle worked all his life as a social worker down here. He also ate at great restaurants from time to time, being a gastrophile. When asked how he could afford to he said: I have a small flat, I don't run a car, I have a tiny TV, and I have no other hobbies.
    I haven't been able to validate it online, but I think it's about £150 for two at that place. That's about a third of the week's after tax earnings for the average Londoner.
    You do grasp that foodies save up to go to these fantastic places?
    Perhaps. But I think most Londoners would regard it as beyond their price range. I'm not trying to be mean, particularly as antifrank is a genuine nice guy and doesn't flaunt his wealth on here. But I just think the very wealthy sometimes make comments about lifestyle that seem lacking in self-awareness sometimes.
  • AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited March 2014
    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    Anyone on parliamentary expenses could dine there daily.

  • nigel4englandnigel4england Posts: 4,800

    Nigel4England

    Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.

    So please drop your line of posting.

    MickPork

    Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist

    Sorry I had forgotten, understood.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    AveryLP said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    RE: Can't find the phrase for leaking by docu photo but it's something along the lines of 'papsnapping'.

    Pork

    I doubt the use of the word "pap" in such context.
    Stick to your little yellow boxes of spin cousin of Seth O Logue. Those are amusing enough. :)
  • SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    AveryLP said:

    Maybe this is being too optimistic, but I wonder if we're seeing the peak of the crisis, at least for now. The West's comments seem focused on "not another inch beyond Crimea", while Medvedev is talking about building a bridge across the Straits of Kerch, which they wouldn't need if they were moving on to the rest of the eastern Ukraine. If nobody starts shooting, things may rest there for the forseeable future with much grumbling but no actual fighting. If.

    It is being too optimistic, Nick.

    Insofar as anyone can divine Putin's mind, I think the strategy is emerging as follows.

    - Secure total control of Crimea through the government of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea, including the transfer of all military forces to ARC control.

    - Demonstrate Crimea's loyalty to Russia and desire for secession through referendum at end March.

    - Use the Crimea as a example to other pro-Russian regions located in Eastern Ukraine. Only intervene with military if provoked by Ukrainian nationalist forces. The expectation would be that the local administrations will follow Crimea's line without undue civil unrest.

    - Maintain that the current Ukrainian government is illegitimate and call for new elections involving all regions and interests. Refuse to negotiate directly with Kiev government and use Crimea to demonstrate the consequences not acceding to Russia's "reasonable demands" with the implied threat of secession.

    - Secure international agreement with US and EU for new elections and an economic support plan for the Ukraine (probably less Crimea).

    - If international agreement and economic support plan not forthcoming push ahead with secession by holding regional referendums in all the pro-Russian administrative areas.

    But surely they must be worried of the reaction from Western nations? If they're not careful, they might be excluded from the international tiddly-winks championship.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    Socrates said:

    BobaFett said:

    antifrank said:

    Socrates said:

    antifrank said:

    If you want good Peking duck, I can recommend HKK on Worship Street (the sister restaurant of Hakkasan).

    A genuine question, antifrank: What share of pb's readers do you think could afford to eat there?
    I expect that quite a lot of our London posters could afford to eat there, depending on their other priorities.

    My uncle worked all his life as a social worker down here. He also ate at great restaurants from time to time, being a gastrophile. When asked how he could afford to he said: I have a small flat, I don't run a car, I have a tiny TV, and I have no other hobbies.
    I haven't been able to validate it online, but I think it's about £150 for two at that place. That's about a third of the week's after tax earnings for the average Londoner.
    You do grasp that foodies save up to go to these fantastic places?
    Perhaps. But I think most Londoners would regard it as beyond their price range. I'm not trying to be mean, particularly as antifrank is a genuine nice guy and doesn't flaunt his wealth on here. But I just think the very wealthy sometimes make comments about lifestyle that seem lacking in self-awareness sometimes.
    I am then not going to be popular if I admit that I thought £75/head sounded very reasonable for such a well-renowned place, and am now thinking of visiting.
  • MrJonesMrJones Posts: 3,523
    There's Ukraine as a whole
    There's the south and east part of Ukraine
    There's Crimea
    and there's the leased base itself in Crimea.

    If it's anything like UK military bases then apart from the main base there's likely hundreds of little mini-compounds to do with this and that (e.g. shooting ranges) scattered all over the place and i wouldn't be at all surprised if some that weren't being used by the Russkies had been lent out to the Ukrainian military.

    If Putin's gameplan is the most likely one i wouldn't be at all surprised if the Crimean bases being surrounded by Russian troops aren't ones technically owned by the Russkies as that maximizes the desired effect.
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
    If you think saying "only two points above the mean" is valid when the mean is only so high because of Labours high score, then you must be completely numerically illiterate
    Touchy! All of the parties have none-working voters in the range 5-15%. What I pointed out initially is that Labour have the highest share of working people (and the highest absolute number) and Ukip the lowest. That's one for you to mull over in between making unpleasant comments.
    Your misreading of that poll is making you look really silly

    Divide the "working" by the total "working" and "not working" for each party...
    Labour has a) the highest proportion of working supporters and b) the most in absolute numbers.

    Ukip has the lowest of both.

    Do you disagree?
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789

    BobaFett said:

    Crikey this Populus poll has rattled the Right. Many of their myths about the Left have been exploded.

    Have any of them announced that they're not posting after today, and flounced off?

    Not that I know of?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014

    Nigel4England

    Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.

    So please drop your line of posting.

    MickPork

    Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist

    Factually incorrect. This was the post which was directed at me and one other poster NOT to me and SeanT.

    "For the avoidance of doubt until further notice neither of you are allowed to discuss anything connected to sexual crimes"

    If you wish to change your instruction to now include banning me on posting on something SeanT has happily posted on himself here many times before then be explicit that you are doing so and please give the correct reason why.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Lest anybody be misled by @BobaFett's misrepresentations or, being fair, miscalculations, the poll shows that of voters of a working age...

    Conservatives have 90% working
    UKIP have 86% working
    Lib Dems have 84% working
    Labour have 81% working

    So the claim that "Labour are the party of the working man" is blatantly false

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 54,016
    One of the issues highlighted by Ukraine threatens to be the diminution of Russia. For 50 years after WW2 it was the second most powerful nation on earth. I recall my father attending NATO conferences in Germany in the 1970s when the general view was that western Europe could probably hold out from the overwhelming red army for about a month at which point it would be necessary to go nuclear.

    Since then Russia has lost a lot of power, a lot of territory and a huge amount of wealth. The threat of economic sanctions from the west is real and they are no longer immune. Putin may have delusions of grandeur but this is a country that can be kept in line by firm and consistent policies by countries who are so much richer and whose trade Russia needs.

    Unless of course some idiot discloses that we don't really mean it. No 10 really has to be crystal clear on this soonest.

    The biggest risk in the Ukraine is that one party underestimates how serious the other is. I fear the transatlantic telephone lines will be red hot after this. Very, very uncomfortable for Cameron and Hague.
  • smithersjones2013smithersjones2013 Posts: 740
    edited March 2014

    ...........

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.
    Such relative percentages are misleading because chances are that Labour is supported by over half the unemployed sample in that poll.

    For example if you have a sample of 1000 voters who are split Lab 39% Con 32% LD 9% UKIP 13% and you then calculate the numbers of unemployed for each party based on the shares indicated in the mail graphic you then get the following cross breaks for the unemployed demographic:

    Lab 63%
    Con 22.5%
    LD 1.5%
    UKIP 12%

    Looking at it that way provides a rather different picture don't you think?

    What is so wrong with being unemployed?
    Well ask your mate Bob. He's the one who seemed to put great store in Labour being the party of 'working' people. I just pointed out that it was also the party of not working (but not retired) people by some considerable margin as well. After all we wouldn't want the poll to be taken out of context now would we?
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    UK seeking to ensure Russia sanctions do not harm City of London

    Government document photographed outside No 10 states that 'London's financial centre' should not be closed to Russians

    Government officials said that no decisions were taken at the meeting of the NSC. But they confirmed that the call in the document for London's financial centre to kept open to Russians reflected the government's thinking that it wanted to target action against Moscow and not damage British interests.

    http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document
  • BobaFettBobaFett Posts: 2,789
    isam said:

    Lest anybody be misled by @BobaFett's misrepresentations or, being fair, miscalculations, the poll shows that of voters of a working age...

    Conservatives have 90% working
    UKIP have 86% working
    Lib Dems have 84% working
    Labour have 81% working

    So the claim that "Labour are the party of the working man" is blatantly false

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
  • Ishmael_XIshmael_X Posts: 3,664
    AveryLP said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    RE: Can't find the phrase for leaking by docu photo but it's something along the lines of 'papsnapping'.

    Pork

    I doubt the use of the word "pap" in such context.

    My recollection of its Jacobean usage is of an entirely different primary meaning. Take for example the famous speech of Sir Epicure Mammon in Ben Jonson's "The Alchemist":

    My foot-boy shall eat pheasants, calver'd salmons,
    Knots, godwits, lampreys: I myself will have
    The beards of barbels served, instead of sallads;
    Oil'd mushrooms; and the swelling unctuous paps
    Of a fat pregnant sow, newly cut off,
    Drest with an exquisite, and poignant sauce;
    For which, I'll say unto my cook, There's gold,
    Go forth, and be a knight.


    Almost Salmondesque in its grandeur and love of the high life.

    Short for paparazzo.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,624
    The four course lunch menu at HKK is £27.50. Assuming you don't drink alcohol, and you tip modestly, you should be able to get away with paying sub £40. Which is hardly inexpensive, but is in reach of most people, assuming they don't do it too often.
  • PBModeratorPBModerator Posts: 665
    Mick_Pork said:

    Nigel4England

    Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.

    So please drop your line of posting.

    MickPork

    Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist

    Factually incorrect. This was the post which was directed at me and one other poster NOT to me and SeanT.

    "For the avoidance of doubt until further notice neither of you are allowed to discuss anything connected to sexual crimes"

    If you wish to change your instruction to now include banning me on posting on something SeanT has happily posted on himself here many times before then be explicit that you are doing so and please give the correct reason why.
    It is a follow on from the posting on Thursday.

    You can either abide by the rules set down by Mike or you don't.

    The decision is yours.

    This is our final post on this topic.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    BobaFett said:

    AndyJS said:

    BobaFett said:

    Interesting data that Labour has the highest proportion of supporters who are in work, reflecting its name - and that it is the party of the working man. Ukip has the least.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Labour also has the highest proportion not working.
    Yes, although only 2pts higher than the GB mean, which is not the impression you would get on here... I was actually quite stunned by just how many Tories and Kippers are retired. It's a very generational split.

    Comparing it to the mean nonsense, because the mean is only so high thanks to Labour voters not working

    The average of the other three parties not working is 8.33... Labour not working is 14%..

    So they are the party of the people on welfare
    As are all the other parties, which also have not working voters.
    The hard facts are in front of you - Labour has the highest proportion of working people, Ukip the lowest. Are you denying that is the case?
    If you think saying "only two points above the mean" is valid when the mean is only so high because of Labours high score, then you must be completely numerically illiterate
    Touchy! All of the parties have none-working voters in the range 5-15%. What I pointed out initially is that Labour have the highest share of working people (and the highest absolute number) and Ukip the lowest. That's one for you to mull over in between making unpleasant comments.
    Your misreading of that poll is making you look really silly

    Divide the "working" by the total "working" and "not working" for each party...
    Labour has a) the highest proportion of working supporters and b) the most in absolute numbers.

    Ukip has the lowest of both.

    Do you disagree?
    That is true, but misleading

    Labour has the lowest percentage of working age voters in work, and the highest proportion out of work

    Troll if you like but you are comprehensively wrong and are embarrassing yourself

    Its like saying Carlton Palmer is a better goalscoring midfielder than Adnan Januzaj because he has scored more goals.. that's true as well

    Maybe Mark Ramprakash is a better test batsmen than David Warner. .why not, he has scored more runs
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited March 2014

    Mick_Pork said:

    Nigel4England

    Mike Smithson has made it clear posters shouldn't accuse new posters of being old posters.

    So please drop your line of posting.

    MickPork

    Your sex tourism post violates the spirit of the instruction you were given on Saturday, so please desist

    Factually incorrect. This was the post which was directed at me and one other poster NOT to me and SeanT.

    "For the avoidance of doubt until further notice neither of you are allowed to discuss anything connected to sexual crimes"

    If you wish to change your instruction to now include banning me on posting on something SeanT has happily posted on himself here many times before then be explicit that you are doing so and please give the correct reason why.
    It is a follow on from the posting on Thursday.
    As I said if you wish to change your instruction then be explicit that you are doing so as you just have and then I will of course comply as I expect will others.

  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    BobaFett said:

    isam said:

    Lest anybody be misled by @BobaFett's misrepresentations or, being fair, miscalculations, the poll shows that of voters of a working age...

    Conservatives have 90% working
    UKIP have 86% working
    Lib Dems have 84% working
    Labour have 81% working

    So the claim that "Labour are the party of the working man" is blatantly false

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bh0YnxPCAAAJdJh.jpg:large

    Absolute rubbish. That half or more of Ukip and the Tory vote is over 65 is nothing to be ashamed of, but nor is it Labour's problem. You are spinning like a top on roundabout pills.
    You're making a fool of yourself.

    You've called badly it wrong. I'd change the subject if I were you
  • MontyMonty Posts: 346
    I can't believe that someone has been photographed *again* with a sensitive document walking along Downing Street. Just what is wrong with these people? If they can't be trusted to remember that modern cameras can read the text of a document from several yards away they don't deserve to be in the job.
    Why aren't there opaque document carriers that have to be used at all times?
    I'm flabbergasted at the incompetence.

    Rant over.
  • Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    A.J. Carrillo ‏@ajcarrillo 17m

    .@David_Cameron what 'great' ally of the United States and NATO. Selling us out, to protect the City. Class act! http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/uk-seeks-russia-harm-city-london-document
This discussion has been closed.