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Some good news for Sunak – politicalbetting.com

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  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,734

    Surely adopting someone else’s good idea and executing it effectively should be encouraged?
    The airport idea was far from ludicrous. Among other things, guess what is the major source of pollutants in West London?

    Multiple airports around the world have been moved to specially build islands in shallow water off coasts.

    Where Heathrow is now, build a city - with ready made power, public transport, water etc…
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,057
    O/T

    If you're interested in videos about aviation, this is one of the best channels imo, run by Swedish pilot Petter Hörnfeldt.

    https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot/videos
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211
    ...
    Mortimer said:

    I still see Mordaunt as the most likely candidate to win, and have any impact.

    Even a competitive leadership election could be completed in a fortnight if the party board decided such....
    If Penny, who is a phenomenal campaigner with an impressive track record in Government, wins a decent majority, where do the wannabe Faragist failures like Badenoch, Braverman and Jenrick stand? They will have missed the boat, or do you anticipate they could depose in a year, or to keep her job the once woke Penny becomes radical to keep them on side?
  • TrentTrent Posts: 150

    @rcs1000

    Robert - this guy is getting boring now.
    You are like the sneak at school snitching to the teacher who everyone hates. Elon Musk agrees with me and i imagine he has considerable more knowledge than yourself.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 33,057

    Not even Jeremy Corbyn disliked the UK as much as the Tories do.

    Hi from London, “crime capital of the world”.
    In Birmingham? Beware “rotting rubbish” and “boarded-up buildings”.
    Manchester is “the worst city in Europe for eco-friendly transport”.
    The ruling party’s new social media campaign is doing wonders for tourism

    https://x.com/simoncalder/status/1774318764646941143?s=46&t=rw5lNVUgmRPVyKpxfV_pPQ

    The Tories deserve to lose simply because of this sort of thing. Talking down their own country.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,794
    Trent said:

    You are like the sneak at school snitching to the teacher who everyone hates. Elon Musk agrees with me and i imagine he has considerable more knowledge than yourself.
    Elon Musk agrees with you?

    Wowsers. Well, in which case...

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    The airport idea was far from ludicrous. Among other things, guess what is the major source of pollutants in West London?

    Multiple airports around the world have been moved to specially build islands in shallow water off coasts.

    Where Heathrow is now, build a city - with ready made power, public transport, water etc…
    Although there were some practical objections he never really considered. For example,what to do about the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery in building it.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054
    I see the Trent has dried up.

    Perhaps he should have done a Uriah Heep and Humberled himself.

    But he didn't Ouse talent (that's enough - Ed)
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,794
    Sean_F said:

    Just like the UK government in WWII suspended its own election until the war's end, and gave itself immense emergency powers. There's nothing sinister about it.
    Generally, when countries are invaded, they are going to implement measures that would seen extreme.

    It's weird anyone would be surprised by this.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,794

    It is total war for Ukraine (and Russia...), and there are always manpower issues in such affairs. Russia is also suffering: if not, why the penal battalions?

    Also, the ' ukrainian men hiding fron conscription' is a) not a new thing, and b) that it is happening at a large scale seems to an invention of the Russian media that you slurp the anal dribblings from, and c) effects Russia to. Look at the amount of young Russians who have fled their country.

    If I am 'regurgitating their lines', then you are 'regurgitating' the lines of a fascist and imperialist state. Lines which are no less true, and IMV far less true.

    Because you aren't against imperalism and fascism, are you?
    Almost every issue Ukraine is suffering from, so is Russia. It's weird how blind some people are to this.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211

    The polling says that Penny Mordaunt is the only candidate to find.
    She is a very impressive political operator and she looks like Catherine Deneuve. A shiny new bottle, which may fly off the shelves, but the same dreary transformed to vinegar wine is within.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,596
    Trent said:

    You are like the sneak at school snitching to the teacher who everyone hates. Elon Musk agrees with me and i imagine he has considerable more knowledge than yourself.
    Thanks Robert
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,734
    ydoethur said:

    Although there were some practical objections he never really considered. For example,what to do about the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery in building it.
    1) it wouldn’t have to be built within miles of the Montgomery.
    2) the “it’ll blow like an atomic bomb” stuff is rubbish. Deliberate detonations of far larger quantities of explosives produce tsunamis of…. Inches
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211
    edited March 2024
    ydoethur said:

    I see the Trent has dried up.

    Perhaps he should have done a Uriah Heep and Humberled himself.

    But he didn't Ouse talent (that's enough - Ed)

    He was also prone to bore.

    He could also Stoke up controversy.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    He was also prone to bore.
    I was waiting for bot number Severn for that pun.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,596

    He was also prone to bore.
    It’s a sign of the Tames that those are best puns the good doctor can flood the board with
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    It’s a sign of the Tames that those are best puns the good doctor can flood the board with
    Wye are you getting at me? Are you annoyed at coming Forth in our competition?
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 42,270

    Surely adopting someone else’s good idea and executing it effectively should be encouraged?
    Substitute stealing for adopting and the current iteration of the Tories are ok at the first part of that proposition, but absolutely STINKING at the second.
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211
    ydoethur said:

    I was waiting for bot number Severn for that pun.
    I believe (the) Trent (which is tidal) also bores.

    And this f***** could certainly bore for Siberia.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    I believe (the) Trent (which is tidal) also bores.

    And this f***** could certainly bore for Siberia.
    He was annoying. HE exasperated us in Speys.

    I wonder if they'lll sent us someone better Ness time.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,596
    ydoethur said:

    Wye are you getting at me? Are you annoyed at coming Forth in our competition?
    I came at least fjord!
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,596
    edited March 2024

    Substitute stealing for adopting and the current iteration of the Tories are ok at the first part of that proposition, but absolutely STINKING at the second.
    I suppose it depends on “current iteration” but I was responding to the mention of Boris Bikes
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    I came at least fjord!
    In Dee-ed?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,605
    ydoethur said:

    In Dee-ed?
    I'm Itchen to come up with a good pun here.

    Sadly I've failed the Test.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    I'm Itchen to come up with a good pun here.

    Sadly I've failed the Test.
    That sounds like a case of Sow-er grapes.

    We're going to be making river puns for the next hour, aren't we?

    Oh well, let's just go with the flow even if it's Arun flow.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    Andy_JS said:

    O/T

    If you're interested in videos about aviation, this is one of the best channels imo, run by Swedish pilot Petter Hörnfeldt.

    https://www.youtube.com/@MentourPilot/videos

    I have been working through the videos two or three a week for some time now, following a similar recommendation by one of us - you or JJ, I forget, sorry - and they have been most interesting, not least in discussing events that don't (comparatively) get into the newspapers.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    ydoethur said:

    That sounds like a case of Sow-er grapes.

    We're going to be making river puns for the next hour, aren't we?

    Oh well, let's just go with the flow even if it's Arun flow.
    You're obviously itchen. Nothing can dam you when your beult imagination is soaring.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054
    Carnyx said:

    You're obviously itchen. Nothing can dam you when your beult imagination is soaring.
    Foyled again.

    Ah well, it was fun if Fleeting.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    kjh said:

    Sorry to immediately refer to the previous thread but it is something I feel strongly about. There was a discussion on assisted dying and the discussion got away from the original point. I have no issues with people of sound mind deciding to end their life. However that is a whole different kettle of fish to what @Trent was advocating which was others deciding to end other people's lives on the basis of cost which is disgusting.

    What do you expect from Russian's, they would knobble their Gran's for a rouble
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,285

    I believe (the) Trent (which is tidal) also bores.

    And this f***** could certainly bore for Siberia.
    Ob-viously
  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,985
    ydoethur said:

    Foyled again.

    Ah well, it was fun if Fleeting.
    I'm cleddau read this string.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,285

    He was also prone to bore.

    He could also Stoke up controversy.
    No need to be so Volga-r.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    No need to be so Volga-r.
    Are we all Don now?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    edited March 2024
    ydoethur said:

    Although there were some practical objections he never really considered. For example,what to do about the wreck of the SS Richard Montgomery in building it.
    Also how anyone was to get there. Imagine having to go through Estuaryland. Might not have been a bad idea if they could throw in a direct connection from Edinburgh (etc) to the rest of Europe [edit] via HS2 while at it.

    But I hate to think what Mr Sunak would have done to the transport links if we were in the middle of building London Johnson Airport.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    Carnyx said:

    I have been working through the videos two or three a week for some time now, following a similar recommendation by one of us - you or JJ, I forget, sorry - and they have been most interesting, not least in discussing events that don't (comparatively) get into the newspapers.
    I'm unsure if I'm the one who recommended it, but I've been watching Mentour for a few years now, on and off. He is excellent.

    Another good aviation channel is Blancolirio; although he also covers some non-aviation stuff, and loads of general aviation incidents.
    https://www.youtube.com/@blancolirio

    The story of how Blancolirio became an airline pilot was quite fascinating, if I recall it correctly.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054
    Carnyx said:

    Also how anyone was to get there. Imagine having to go through Estuaryland. Might not have been a bad idea if they could throw in a direct connection from Edinburgh (etc) to the rest of Europe [edit] via HS2 while at it.

    But I hate to think what Mr Sunak would have done to the transport links if we were in the middle of building London Johnson Airport.
    Well, originally of course that was the idea. Alter the route of HS1 slightly so it went past it, then link HS1 to HS2 via Camden Town.

    But, that kept being salami-sliced away to the point of lunacy.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    Carnyx said:

    Also how anyone was to get there. Imagine having to go through Estuaryland. Might not have been a bad idea if they could throw in a direct connection from Edinburgh (etc) to the rest of Europe [edit] via HS2 while at it.

    But I hate to think what Mr Sunak would have done to the transport links if we were in the middle of building London Johnson Airport.
    Heathrow isn't exactly convenient for some of us, either.

    The truth is that any large newly sited airport requires massive infrastructure improvements that may dwarf the actual cost of the airport itself. But that is not a reason not to do it.

    I agree with your last line. Then again, I'm rather bullish on improving infrastructure...
  • SandraMcSandraMc Posts: 707
    malcolmg said:

    What do you expect from Russian's, they would knobble their Gran's for a rouble
    I have re-read Matthew Parris's piece on assisted dying and the cost of keeping the very elderly alive. I am wondering if he is serious or is he writing something on the lines of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724

    I'm unsure if I'm the one who recommended it, but I've been watching Mentour for a few years now, on and off. He is excellent.

    Another good aviation channel is Blancolirio; although he also covers some non-aviation stuff, and loads of general aviation incidents.
    https://www.youtube.com/@blancolirio

    The story of how Blancolirio became an airline pilot was quite fascinating, if I recall it correctly.
    Who cares? Just take the credit, like London mayors for their predecessors' ideas!

    Seriously, thanks for that - now bookmarked to try out.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,596
    ydoethur said:

    Are we all Don now?
    We’ll give you the Elbe if you don’t stop.

    But I fear you are in full spate
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    ydoethur said:

    Well, originally of course that was the idea. Alter the route of HS1 slightly so it went past it, then link HS1 to HS2 via Camden Town.

    But, that kept being salami-sliced away to the point of lunacy.
    Linking HS1 and HS2 via Camden Town was always slightly odd. An intelligent integrated scheme would have had the link via the Elizabeth line, linking at Old Oak and Stratford. But that would have involved devising an integrated network a couple of decades ago...
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    SandraMc said:

    I have re-read Matthew Parris's piece on assisted dying and the cost of keeping the very elderly alive. I am wondering if he is serious or is he writing something on the lines of Jonathan Swift's "A Modest Proposal"?
    I'm afraid that it's become increasingly difficult to tell reality from satire these days.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    We’ll give you the Elbe if you don’t stop.

    But I fear you are in full spate
    All right, keep your Aeron.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054

    Heathrow isn't exactly convenient for some of us, either.

    The truth is that any large newly sited airport requires massive infrastructure improvements that may dwarf the actual cost of the airport itself. But that is not a reason not to do it.

    I agree with your last line. Then again, I'm rather bullish on improving infrastructure...
    It is also worth noting that even building the airport itself can be quite complex.

    Berlin can explain this to you.
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,013
    ydoethur said:

    Are we all Don now?
    You need to Esk?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 72,054
    sarissa said:

    You need to Esk?
    Well, it seems I have an Aln-swer.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    viewcode said:

    If only somebody had written an article about Poland's strategic interests in the area based on it's extensive history...

    https://www1.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/01/29/the-intermarium/
    Poland at least is getting ready for the next one.
  • malcolmgmalcolmg Posts: 43,639
    Dura_Ace said:

    Zelensky does have immense power under martial law and has suspended presidential elections.

    Ukraine do have a recruitment problem, not least because of the political deadlock resulting from nobody wanting to own the horribly unpopular mobilisation legislation. See the two recent WSJ articles.

    There is an immense Ukrainian propoganda effort targeted at the west. You have been doggedly and uncritically regurgitating their lines on here for two years.

    So, yes comrade, the bones of old mate Trent's post were correct.
    Trent is a Russian shill of the first order , a gommerel fanny.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    ydoethur said:

    It is also worth noting that even building the airport itself can be quite complex.

    Berlin can explain this to you.
    Or, alternatively, Hong Kong International Airport. which proves they can be done well despite much more difficult requirements.

    (I once went to a talk at the Institute of Civil Engineers about the then-ongoing construction of the Tsing Ma Bridge to HK ariport. It was right after the Heathrow tunnel collapse, and from memory the mood was rather sombre. I also heard some stuff about what really happened with the tunnel collapse that does not seem to square with the official report.

    Sometimes I really miss civil engineering...)
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,691
    Havering lollipop man, 93, made redundant from crossing job
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68698714
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    Trent said:

    You are like the sneak at school snitching to the teacher who everyone hates. Elon Musk agrees with me and i imagine he has considerable more knowledge than yourself.
    You're not a teacher; you're a troll.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,339
    Happy Easter! On this topic, sort of:

    today is a good day to remind everyone not to give wild rabbits mouth to mouth CPR



    https://bsky.app/profile/publichealth.bsky.social/post/3koyrbmjt4k26
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    GOP Rep. Don Bacon (Neb.) on #MTP warned that "it's possible" that Speaker Mike Johnson could face a vote to oust him if he moves to pass Ukraine aid in the House.
    https://twitter.com/MeetThePress/status/1774441113216061593
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    FF43 said:

    Happy Easter! On this topic, sort of:

    today is a good day to remind everyone not to give wild rabbits mouth to mouth CPR



    https://bsky.app/profile/publichealth.bsky.social/post/3koyrbmjt4k26

    Excellent advice there!

    A post surely worth the same as a hundred of Leon’s posts warning of the oncoming AI apocalypse, based on pasting stuff he read the internet just moments before, without even a few seconds’ intervening thought?
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211
    ydoethur said:

    Are we all Don now?
    Please stop. Have Mersey on us!
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211
    Nigelb said:

    You're not a teacher; you're a troll.
    Correction, was a troll. Which reminds me, no Leon today?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,605

    Havering lollipop man, 93, made redundant from crossing job
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68698714

    Assuming that the point isn't that decisive lollipop men are preferable...

    As the man on the spot, Havering council is broke- Section 114 in all but name. If it's not required by law, it ain't happening. What's unusual is that it hasn't got an expensive legal judgement against it and it hasn't gambled on an unwise investment. Minimum possible expenditure has just outgrown maximum possible income.

    One of the infuriating things about Sunak's Zombie Government is the pile of stuff that he has no intention of fixing that will just get worse over the next nine months.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,285

    Please stop. Have Mersey on us!
    Tay, tay, tay, tay, tay-tay, t-t-tay, tay
    Tay or leave us, only please believe us
    We ain't never gonna be respectable
  • On topic - interesting that they publish the 'raw' lead without the DK squeeze. Instead of 15% it is 21% - suggesting that the DK factor remains worth 4-6%. That should always be considered when comparing MIC and Opinium polls with those of the other companies.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 50,241
    edited March 2024

    The airport idea was far from ludicrous. Among other things, guess what is the major source of pollutants in West London?

    Multiple airports around the world have been moved to specially build islands in shallow water off coasts.

    Where Heathrow is now, build a city - with ready made power, public transport, water etc…
    Apart from the huge cache of unexploded bombs nearby.

    And the thousands of migrating birds, any one of which could demand a pilot to recreate Sully’s magnificent landing on the Hudson.

    And the frequent fog.

    The need to build tons of infrastructure from scratch.

    And the tiny detail that most of the passengers for the airport come from north or west of London.

    And the huge workforce living west of London, such that a significant proportion of Hounslow and Hillingdon residents are employed by the airport, or firms ancillary to it. And hundreds of west London businesses rely on the airport for very significant parts of their income, from caterers through taxi firms through the hotels that accommodate all the passengers and flight crews.

    And the environmental damage.

    And Johnson’s complete inability to explain what would happen to the Heathrow site after.

    And the eyewatering cost. Which wouldn’t have worried Johnson but should worry any sensible person.

  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 29,211

    Assuming that the point isn't that decisive lollipop men are preferable...

    As the man on the spot, Havering council is broke- Section 114 in all but name. If it's not required by law, it ain't happening. What's unusual is that it hasn't got an expensive legal judgement against it and it hasn't gambled on an unwise investment. Minimum possible expenditure has just outgrown maximum possible income.

    One of the infuriating things about Sunak's Zombie Government is the pile of stuff that he has no intention of fixing that will just get worse over the next nine months.
    They are in power, they don't seem to have any intention of doing anything (or have done for the last, at least, two years that doesn't directly and positively impact their fortunes at the next GE. The sole function seems to be re-election, but once re-elected have no intention of doing anything other than that which will ensure re election in four years time. In the meantime the wider economy and social cohesion goes to the dogs.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 29,125

    Havering lollipop man, 93, made redundant from crossing job
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68698714

    That's a shame. It's in very poor taste to let a 93 year old go.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,724
    IanB2 said:

    Excellent advice there!

    A post surely worth the same as a hundred of Leon’s posts warning of the oncoming AI apocalypse, based on pasting stuff he read the internet just moments before, without even a few seconds’ intervening thought?
    No joke at all, the bunny bug I mean. Rather resembles bubonic plague sometimes. Right down to the buboes. One of those zoonoses that you really hope never achieves human to human transmission.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    IanB2 said:

    Apart from the huge cache of unexploded bombs nearby.

    And the thousands of migrating birds, any one of which could demand a pilot to recreate Sully’s magnificent landing on the Hudson.

    And the frequent fog.

    The need to build tons of infrastructure from scratch.

    And the tiny detail that most of the passengers for the airport come from north or west of London.

    And the huge workforce living west of London, such that a significant proportion of Hounslow and Hillingdon residents are employed by the airport, or firms ancillary to it. And hundreds of west London businesses rely on the airport for very significant parts of their income, from caterers through taxi firms through the hotels that accommodate all the passengers and flight crews.

    And the environmental damage.

    And Johnson’s complete inability to explain what would happen to the Heathrow site after.

    And the eyewatering cost. Which wouldn’t have worried Johnson but should worry any sensible person.

    "Apart from the huge cache of unexploded bombs nearby."

    'nearby' is doing a heck of a lot of heavy lifting there, especially for some of the sites.

    As for migrating birds: plenty of airports are on islands, or coastal. There must be some form of British exceptionalism that means we cannot manage that risk.

    "And the environmental damage."

    Airports are, by their very nature, damaging. The current site of Heathrow causes immense damage to the population of west London, for instance.

    "And Johnson’s complete inability to explain what would happen to the Heathrow site after."

    I'm unsure why it was up to Johnson to say what the site would be used for afterwards, in the couple of decades it would take to build a new airport. And if he did, people would criticise what he said. Besides, it leads to a massive site to employ the people who you claim will lose their jobs...

    As Heathrow's third runway shows all too well, the current site is utterly inappropriate for expansion - especially when the 'expansion' is a half-hearted job whose extra capacity will soon get swallowed up.

    Time to be bold.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,605

    They are in power, they don't seem to have any intention of doing anything (or have done for the last, at least, two years that doesn't directly and positively impact their fortunes at the next GE. The sole function seems to be re-election, but once re-elected have no intention of doing anything other than that which will ensure re election in four years time. In the meantime the wider economy and social cohesion goes to the dogs.
    In office, anyway, as Norma Lamont put it.

    But in the event that Rishi gets another five years, what does he intend to do with it?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,734
    IanB2 said:

    Apart from the huge cache of unexploded bombs nearby.

    And the thousands of migrating birds, any one of which could demand a pilot to recreate Sully’s magnificent landing on the Hudson.

    And the frequent fog.

    The need to build tons of infrastructure from scratch.

    And the tiny detail that most of the passengers for the airport come from north or west of London.

    And the huge workforce living west of London, such that a significant proportion of Hounslow and Hillingdon residents are employed by the airport, or firms ancillary to it. And hundreds of west London businesses rely on the airport for very significant parts of their income, from caterers through taxi firms through the hotels that accommodate all the passengers and flight crews.

    And the environmental damage.

    And Johnson’s complete inability to explain what would happen to the Heathrow site after.

    And the eyewatering cost. Which wouldn’t have worried Johnson but should worry any sensible person.

    The cache of bombs is exaggerated and miles from most of the proposed airport sites

    Hundreds of airports have been sited on coasts -which are not uniformly covered in birds.

    The project would take 15-20 years - time enough to move businesses, as happened at all the other airports that got moved.

    The idea that Heathrow would remain empty is farcical. At current house prices, building on it might raise enough money to make a *profit* of the project.
  • @Leon's latest sock @Trent has been banned then.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    I'd love someone to correct me, as this is from memory;

    One of the problems with Heathrow expansion is that the vastly costly third runway (not including connecting infrastructure costs...) only increases capacity enough for it to be pretty much full by the time it is finally finished.

    And further expansion is even more expensive.

    The answer is a new, less constrained site, where you can build three or four runways (the new Istanbul airport has five) and improved facilities, with room for more expansion.

    Either that, or try to restrict passenger usage of planes by doing a French-style domestic restriction - banning flights if there is a competitive high-speed rail route. But that involves having a high-speed rail network...)
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    @Leon's latest sock @Trent has been banned then.

    He’s back in the USSR.
  • I'd love someone to correct me, as this is from memory;

    One of the problems with Heathrow expansion is that the vastly costly third runway (not including connecting infrastructure costs...) only increases capacity enough for it to be pretty much full by the time it is finally finished.

    And further expansion is even more expensive.

    The answer is a new, less constrained site, where you can build three or four runways (the new Istanbul airport has five) and improved facilities, with room for more expansion.

    Either that, or try to restrict passenger usage of planes by doing a French-style domestic restriction - banning flights if there is a competitive high-speed rail route. But that involves having a high-speed rail network...)

    It's the same logic against building more roads. If you build more roads, you get more cars. And then you need more roads.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,734

    I'd love someone to correct me, as this is from memory;

    One of the problems with Heathrow expansion is that the vastly costly third runway (not including connecting infrastructure costs...) only increases capacity enough for it to be pretty much full by the time it is finally finished.

    And further expansion is even more expensive.

    The answer is a new, less constrained site, where you can build three or four runways (the new Istanbul airport has five) and improved facilities, with room for more expansion.

    Either that, or try to restrict passenger usage of planes by doing a French-style domestic restriction - banning flights if there is a competitive high-speed rail route. But that involves having a high-speed rail network...)

    Yes - residents have caught them scouting for a fourth runway and terminals to match.

    And yes - part of the idea in moving the airport was more runways/capacity. One design started with 5, IIRC,
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,935

    The cache of bombs is exaggerated and miles from most of the proposed airport sites

    Hundreds of airports have been sited on coasts -which are not uniformly covered in birds.

    The project would take 15-20 years - time enough to move businesses, as happened at all the other airports that got moved.

    The idea that Heathrow would remain empty is farcical. At current house prices, building on it might raise enough money to make a *profit* of the project.
    A profit for somebody, no doubt. But who owns Heathrow now?

    I thought it was the Spaniards,.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,068
    Happy Easter to all who are celebrating it today!
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,781
    edited March 2024
    A sad news report about a political activist coming to the same conclusion most do - "she will not put her fingers in letterboxes again" - but unfortunately in her case too late:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68703087
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,691

    I'd love someone to correct me, as this is from memory;

    One of the problems with Heathrow expansion is that the vastly costly third runway (not including connecting infrastructure costs...) only increases capacity enough for it to be pretty much full by the time it is finally finished.

    And further expansion is even more expensive.

    The answer is a new, less constrained site, where you can build three or four runways (the new Istanbul airport has five) and improved facilities, with room for more expansion.

    Either that, or try to restrict passenger usage of planes by doing a French-style domestic restriction - banning flights if there is a competitive high-speed rail route. But that involves having a high-speed rail network...)

    The quick and dirty fix for Heathrow is to let it take over RAF Northolt next door.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798

    The quick and dirty fix for Heathrow is to let it take over RAF Northolt next door.
    RAF Northolt 'next door' ????
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Am somewhat curious, as to why it took sooooooo long before "Trent" got the dreaded/coveted PB Ban Hammer?

    Seeing as it was obvious from post #1 that "Trent" was yet another Grade F Putin-Bot sub-cadet.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    IanB2 said:

    Apart from the huge cache of unexploded bombs nearby.

    And the thousands of migrating birds, any one of which could demand a pilot to recreate Sully’s magnificent landing on the Hudson.

    And the frequent fog.

    The need to build tons of infrastructure from scratch.

    And the tiny detail that most of the passengers for the airport come from north or west of London.

    And the huge workforce living west of London, such that a significant proportion of Hounslow and Hillingdon residents are employed by the airport, or firms ancillary to it. And hundreds of west London businesses rely on the airport for very significant parts of their income, from caterers through taxi firms through the hotels that accommodate all the passengers and flight crews.

    And the environmental damage.

    And Johnson’s complete inability to explain what would happen to the Heathrow site after.

    And the eyewatering cost. Which wouldn’t have worried Johnson but should worry any sensible person.

    The obvious answer is to close Heathrow and rebuild it in Manchester.
    Then have another look at the case for HS3.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,833
    Chris said:

    A sad news report about a political activist coming to the same conclusion most do - "she will not put her fingers in letterboxes again" - but unfortunately in her case too late:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68703087

    A colleague in my canvassing/leafleting days was a postman. Some very useful tips about putting fingers in letterboxes and the like!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    Are the U.S. courts going to wait until someone is actually attacked before they deal with the blatant breaches if bail conditions ?

    Trump is now posting PHOTOS of Judge Juan Merchan's daughter on Truth Social. I'd say this has gone too far, but it had gone too far months ago.

    Someone needs to hold him in contempt. HE IS OUT ON BAIL. This is simply unacceptable and has been for a long time.

    https://twitter.com/MuellerSheWrote/status/1774231808479232315
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,781

    A colleague in my canvassing/leafleting days was a postman. Some very useful tips about putting fingers in letterboxes and the like!
    A biro is almost as effective, and far less risky.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    Nigelb said:

    The obvious answer is to close Heathrow and rebuild it in Manchester.
    Then have another look at the case for HS3.
    Honestly, the piffling lack of ambition and paucity of ideas on PB is hideous. Northolt! Manchester! FFS.

    There's an obvious answer, one even better than Boris Island. An answer that has zero land purchase costs, and no non-feathered neighbours.

    Build the airport in the sky. The answer's in the name: 'air' port. The planes won't have to use as much fuel to climb and descend to and from flight level, and there's a near-infinite amount of air to build it in.

    If we get even more ambitious, we could stack the runways one above the other. Or even place them vertically; the planes could land upwards and takeoff downwards, using gravity to slow down or speed up.

    Why has no-one proposed this????
  • ThomasNasheThomasNashe Posts: 5,331

    Am somewhat curious, as to why it took sooooooo long before "Trent" got the dreaded/coveted PB Ban Hammer?

    Seeing as it was obvious from post #1 that "Trent" was yet another Grade F Putin-Bot sub-cadet.

    His MO was to take it as far as he could without crossing any of the obvious red lines (on vaccines etc), while at the same time starting arguments on, for example, dealing with dementia, and feeding in latest lines on why (with croc tears) Ukraine can’t win.
  • DM_AndyDM_Andy Posts: 1,127

    A colleague in my canvassing/leafleting days was a postman. Some very useful tips about putting fingers in letterboxes and the like!
    If party activists ever had any influence on party policy then spring loaded letterboxes would have been banned generations ago.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,615

    Honestly, the piffling lack of ambition and paucity of ideas on PB is hideous. Northolt! Manchester! FFS.

    There's an obvious answer, one even better than Boris Island. An answer that has zero land purchase costs, and no non-feathered neighbours.

    Build the airport in the sky. The answer's in the name: 'air' port. The planes won't have to use as much fuel to climb and descend to and from flight level, and there's a near-infinite amount of air to build it in.

    If we get even more ambitious, we could stack the runways one above the other. Or even place them vertically; the planes could land upwards and takeoff downwards, using gravity to slow down or speed up.

    Why has no-one proposed this????
    That is just stupid. Just think of all the people who will have their sun blocked out. What they need to do is build them underground. Planes can aim for a tunnel entrance that takes them down to the subterranean airport which will free up land for building houses on top.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,833
    DM_Andy said:

    If party activists ever had any influence on party policy then spring loaded letterboxes would have been banned generations ago.
    And door-step level ones!
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    boulay said:

    That is just stupid. Just think of all the people who will have their sun blocked out. What they need to do is build them underground. Planes can aim for a tunnel entrance that takes them down to the subterranean airport which will free up land for building houses on top.
    Just paint the underside of the 'air'port grey. That way no-one in the UK would be able to tell it apart from a cloud...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,691

    RAF Northolt 'next door' ????
    Yes. RAF Northolt is next door to Heathrow (both are in the London Borough of Hillingdon) and even opened to airline traffic while the builders were in.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    boulay said:

    That is just stupid. Just think of all the people who will have their sun blocked out. What they need to do is build them underground. Planes can aim for a tunnel entrance that takes them down to the subterranean airport which will free up land for building houses on top.
    I believe the mildly fictionalised Thunderbirds was based on some early plans along those lines.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,712
    Trump 2028
    "The Twenty-second Amendment is an arbitrary restraint on presidents who serve nonconsecutive terms—and on democracy itself."
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/trump-2028/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,427
    Chris said:

    A sad news report about a political activist coming to the same conclusion most do - "she will not put her fingers in letterboxes again" - but unfortunately in her case too late:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-68703087

    Use a wooden spoon to push them through, a tip I got on PB.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,781

    And door-step level ones!
    Also those annoying whiskers. It's not as though a bit of a draught is going to kill anyone.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    edited March 2024

    Yes. RAF Northolt is next door to Heathrow (both are in the London Borough of Hillingdon)

    (Snip)
    The residents of Hayes and Hillingdon may beg to differ at that...

    Edit: Northolt's single runway (1,600m) is also under half the length of Heathrow's runways 3,600/3,990m), and without much room for expansion.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,999
    edited March 2024

    The residents of Hayes and Hillingdon may beg to differ at that...

    Edit: Northolt's single runway (1,600m) is also under half the length of Heathrow's runways 3,600/3,990m), and without much room for expansion.
    Some years ago a 707 accidently landed there thinking it was Heathrow. It took a while to get it back out.

    Edit: I think we've had this before on PB, and the truth might be a little different, although not completely so. I just recall my father's tales quite well, and corrections less so.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,833
    Nigelb said:

    Trump 2028
    "The Twenty-second Amendment is an arbitrary restraint on presidents who serve nonconsecutive terms—and on democracy itself."
    https://www.theamericanconservative.com/trump-2028/

    I think that an argument can be made, although I sincerely hope Trump is starting his third or fourth year behind bars in 2028.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,798
    This must be a joke. Not even the Russians could be this stoopid...

    "The Moscow Crocus City Hall terrorists probably had brain chips implanted by Western intelligence agencies that together with neuro-linguistic programming coordinated their actions,"

    Russian General of Internal Affairs V. Olchinsky

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1774370251410387378
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,682

    Correction, was a troll. Which reminds me, no Leon today?
    He did an "I'm off" yesterday.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,691

    The residents of Hayes and Hillingdon may beg to differ at that...

    Edit: Northolt's single runway (1,600m) is also under half the length of Heathrow's runways 3,600/3,990m), and without much room for expansion.
    So send it the smaller planes. It is not ideal but RAF Northolt is already there (and already serves as a private airport for VIPs) so would not take decades of planning inquiries before the whole thing is forgotten. As I said, it would be a quick and dirty fix.
  • mwadams said:

    He did an "I'm off" yesterday.

    Well he became Trent yesterday so he'll be back soon as himself or somebody new. Sean's actual account isn't even banned, not sure why he doesn't just come as that
This discussion has been closed.