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David Cameron’s maxim about Twitter proved right once again – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,002
edited March 26 in General
David Cameron’s maxim about Twitter proved right once again – politicalbetting.com

FACT: London under Labour has become a crime capital of the world ? pic.twitter.com/IKoOFHwHvo

Read the full story here

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Comments

  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198
    Campaign spending limits? Is that why Susan Hall has disowned it?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,184
    It's GOT to be a parody, right??
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,557

    Campaign spending limits? Is that why Susan Hall has disowned it?

    I wondered too. Or perhaps plain legal dodginess.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,184
    ToryJim said:

    It's GOT to be a parody, right??

    The ad or the party?
    :lol:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,344
    Fifth Column.

    AGAIN.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 7,492
    As everyone else has said, it does come across as a MAGA/GOP-style ad, and we should absolutely resist that. It is entirely possible to critique Khan's mayoral record and his plans for another term without this sort of nonsense.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198
    British man becomes first person to climb Mount Kilimanjaro carrying a 30kg fridge
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-man-becomes-first-person-32442798

    The Mirror is silent on the question of knees and ACL (fpt).
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,167

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Indeed

    I should add that #NU10K isn’t the above. It’s the idea that above a certain level, the incompetent form a jerk circle to insulate themselves from reality.

    The answer to the #NU10K is accountability.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,606
    Unfortunately this thread is another example of fake news. Boris Johnson doesn't have allies in the prural. Just Nadine.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 18,344
    edited March 26
    Hmmmm.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    ‘Interesting’ post popped on my Facebook page. Allegedly Robert Peston has invested in something called A8MaxAir, and like everyone else who has done so is making a fortune!
    Clearly it’s a scam of some sort but they ‘only’ want £250 to start, so I can well imagine people falling for it.
  • ClippPClippP Posts: 1,676
    Does anybody happen to know just how many of the Conservative HQ staff are, in fact, American? Just an idle thought.....
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,352

    ‘Interesting’ post popped on my Facebook page. Allegedly Robert Peston has invested in something called A8MaxAir, and like everyone else who has done so is making a fortune!
    Clearly it’s a scam of some sort but they ‘only’ want £250 to start, so I can well imagine people falling for it.

    Sounds like the branding for an Airbus version of a dodgy plane with quick release doors :wink:

    Seems to be a trading app/platform so not necessarily a scam per se, but a quick way for the unwary to be parted from their money.
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,393
    A
    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Technically he isn’t wrong as he’s never been a minister but to the average punter it’s semantics.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,978
    Do they want to make Reform look like the small-c conservative choice?
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others

    From this misbegotten abortion of a concept much evil flows, and it enters every corner of human life

    Not in Colombia tho
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    I am at the beginning of four flights

    Santa Marta-Bogotá

    Bogotá-Cartagena

    Cartagena-Amsterdam

    Amsterdam-London Heathrow

    I expect to land some time after the next general election
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,150
    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    He was Deputy Chair of the Party - payroll vote. If they didn't appoint him a minister without portfolio then ok, but he was definitely party of the government.
  • TheValiantTheValiant Posts: 1,693

    ‘Interesting’ post popped on my Facebook page. Allegedly Robert Peston has invested in something called A8MaxAir, and like everyone else who has done so is making a fortune!
    Clearly it’s a scam of some sort but they ‘only’ want £250 to start, so I can well imagine people falling for it.

    Facebook is mostly just scams now. Excepting for the fact a few people still contact me on messenger, I'd have deleted my profile. Still might.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    British man becomes first person to climb Mount Kilimanjaro carrying a 30kg fridge
    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/british-man-becomes-first-person-32442798

    The Mirror is silent on the question of knees and ACL (fpt).

    Have they alerted Boris ?
  • On topic, I'm not actually sure recent events prove Cameron's old remark about Twitter correct.

    What Cameron had in mind, I think, was the casual, throwaway remark on Twitter. The careless retweet, or the MP's intemperate reply that often gets made later in the evening when a drink or two has been taken.

    In this case, these are carefully scripted and professionally put together videos and websites. That's a rather different thing and potentially more worrying in terms of the competence of the Tory operation. This isn't Bob Nobody MP being silly after a decent claret too many.
  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578
    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others

    From this misbegotten abortion of a concept much evil flows, and it enters every corner of human life

    Not in Colombia tho
    Which neatly proves my point - woke is a catch-all word for ideas and people you don't like but have no coherent or evidence-based arguments to put forward. It's all just an overwhelming horror......
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234
    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,827
    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,870

    On topic, I'm not actually sure recent events prove Cameron's old remark about Twitter correct.

    What Cameron had in mind, I think, was the casual, throwaway remark on Twitter. The careless retweet, or the MP's intemperate reply that often gets made later in the evening when a drink or two has been taken.

    In this case, these are carefully scripted and professionally put together videos and websites. That's a rather different thing and potentially more worrying in terms of the competence of the Tory operation. This isn't Bob Nobody MP being silly after a decent claret too many.

    Yes, I think that's right.

    Cammo was, to my memory, referring to then-burgeoning habit of public figures engaging in a running commentary/debate on social media (which is now less common, as MPs etc are much more alive to the risks).

    This turd of a video was planned, and published, by a bunch of incels at Central Office.

    Nothing like the same thing.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,606
    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    ToryJim said:

    A

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Technically he isn’t wrong as he’s never been a minister but to the average punter it’s semantics.
    Didn’t he attend Cabinet meetings or is that only in Private Eye’s imagination?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234
    FPT, to give Leon something to read on his many flights.
    Carnyx said:

    Nigelb said:

    Interesting (and lengthy) thread on Covid evolution.
    Do we have any specialists in viral evolution to comment ?

    https://twitter.com/SolidEvidence/status/1772329032287404326
    This is amazing.

    Can cryptic lineages tell us anything about the origins of SARS-CoV-2 (SC2)?

    The answer may surprise you, it surprised the hell out of me...

    (Lots & lots of technical stuff)

    ...Takehome message:

    SARS-CoV-2 is not just a normal bat Sarbecovirus with a furin-cleave site added.

    The changes are not ‘random’. This virus seemingly had significantly aclimated to a non-GI environment in ways that I believe could only occur through natural selection.

    The simplest explanation (to me) is that SC2 circulated in a non-human host in a non-GI compartment for several years before it crossed into humans. This gives me hope that the SC2 progenitor might still be found one day.

    Even if you believe that the FCS was engineered into SC2 (starting from an unknown virus), the virus would have had to have been cultured in a ‘non-gut’ environment with almost no immune pressure for a long time (probably years) before it passed to human...

    Any reference to the paper please?

    Though nothing would surprise me, after learning many years ago that the cholera bacterium is primarily an inhabitant of the carapace of shrimps etc. and that any affinity with the human gut is presumably accidental, so the effects on humans are secondary (unless of course it is a dispersal mechanism to other waters, but it's not possible to go all Aristotelean on natural selection anyway ...).
    No - it's a twitter thread by a virologist.
    Several papers referenced, but the reasoning/finding is recent (and came as a surprise to him) and is not yet published elsewhere.

    You'll have to read it.

    References include:
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666524723003725?via=ihub
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-023-40706-y#MOESM1
    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abf9302
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-022-28246-3
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2023.09.14.23295379v1
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04532-4
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41422-021-00600-y
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,150

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    "Lee Anderson is a Conservative MP, and on the vast majority of issues follow instructions from their party and vote the same way as other Conservative MPs."
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198
    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Don't tell the Ministry of Defence or they will turn it into an aircraft carrier.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,978
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    That’s like someone in the early 1900s dismissing communism as an irrelevant fringe belief.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,352

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    That’s like someone in the early 1900s dismissing communism as an irrelevant fringe belief.
    If 'wokism' leads to the overthrow of the government of Russia then I'm all for it :wink:
  • ToryJimToryJim Posts: 3,393

    ToryJim said:

    A

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Technically he isn’t wrong as he’s never been a minister but to the average punter it’s semantics.
    Didn’t he attend Cabinet meetings or is that only in Private Eye’s imagination?
    Don’t think so, he may as erstwhile deputy chairman have attended a political cabinet but given he was only in that role to mollify the headbangers I doubt he was making any actual decisions and he certainly wasn’t determining government policy or indeed practice.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465
    Speaking of toxic . . .

    Numerous media outlets reporting that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. is selecting Nicole Shanahan as his Vice Presidential running mate for his 2024 "independent" presidential candidacy.

    AKA as The Blighted Potato-Head Ticket

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicole_Shanahan
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 20,606

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    "Lee Anderson is a Conservative MP, and on the vast majority of issues follow instructions from their party and vote the same way as other Conservative MPs."
    He is not denying he was a Tory MP who generally supported the government. What is the point of moaning about factual innaccuracies vs Khan, if we should ignore factual accuracies vs Anderson because he is an idiot? That just opens up the door for those who assume Khan is an idiot to think that was fine too.

    Either things that are plain wrong are corrected, or not. Anderson wanting the record corrected shouldn't be controversial at all, especially not by those who want more honesty in politics.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,184
    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
  • MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    "Lee Anderson is a Conservative MP, and on the vast majority of issues follow instructions from their party and vote the same way as other Conservative MPs."
    Anderson is being unreasonably pedantic for a man not known for his perspicacity in choice of words.

    Having said that, he is technically right that an MP for the governing party isn't the same as being part of the government. To take that line would mean Ted Heath was part of Thatcher's government, and that Jeremy Corbyn was part of Blair's.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 49,184

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Don't tell the Ministry of Defence or they will turn it into an aircraft carrier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_aircraft_carrier
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You must always be at 'work' then, as you never say anything considered, interesting, and particularly articulate.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    That’s like someone in the early 1900s dismissing communism as an irrelevant fringe belief.
    No, it's like current Republicans calling everyone is the Democratic party Communists.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662
    I sense there’s a lot of concern for my well-being on my arduous journey so yes I am doing it in business

    But still
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,557

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 32,827
    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,557

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Don't tell the Ministry of Defence or they will turn it into an aircraft carrier.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_aircraft_carrier
    Already done for container ships. Contender Bezant is now RFA Argus (aviation training ship until recently, if only for helicopters). And technically Atlantic Conveyor was a very quick conversion into an aircraft carrier from which rotary wing machines could take off.
  • RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,150
    .

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    "Lee Anderson is a Conservative MP, and on the vast majority of issues follow instructions from their party and vote the same way as other Conservative MPs."
    He is not denying he was a Tory MP who generally supported the government. What is the point of moaning about factual innaccuracies vs Khan, if we should ignore factual accuracies vs Anderson because he is an idiot? That just opens up the door for those who assume Khan is an idiot to think that was fine too.

    Either things that are plain wrong are corrected, or not. Anderson wanting the record corrected shouldn't be controversial at all, especially not by those who want more honesty in politics.
    Its splitting hairs. Any Tory MP is an MP of the party in government. And he was Deputy Chair of the party - part of the government payroll vote (whether they paid him or not - an unpaid PPS is also part of the "payroll" vote.

    Anyway, he's gone from the party so it doesn't matter.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465
    The other day a PBer (forget who) was opining that the upcoming US Senate race in New Jersey might be a Republican pickup opportunity, given the scandal engulfing Democratic incumbent Robert Mendacious (sp?).

    However . . .

    Cook Political Report - With Murphy Exit, Kim On Glide Path To Senate as New Jersey Moves to Solid Democrat

    https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/senate/new-jersey-senate/murphy-exit-kim-glide-path-senate-new-jersey-moves-solid-democrat

    SSI - The exit of Governor Murphy's wife, who was attempting to bully/buy her way to the US Senate (not exactly unique in US history) is good news methinks, for Democrats, for New Jersey and for Congress. (Lord know they all need ALL the help they can get!)

  • Daveyboy1961Daveyboy1961 Posts: 3,377
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You would fit in well as a character on the Fast Show.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    ToryJim said:

    ToryJim said:

    A

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Technically he isn’t wrong as he’s never been a minister but to the average punter it’s semantics.
    Didn’t he attend Cabinet meetings or is that only in Private Eye’s imagination?
    Don’t think so, he may as erstwhile deputy chairman have attended a political cabinet but given he was only in that role to mollify the headbangers I doubt he was making any actual decisions and he certainly wasn’t determining government policy or indeed practice.
    I wonder if he kept his thoughts to himself while there, though!
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    Re: the ship that crashed into and wrecked the Key Bridge in Baltimore, now being reported that it lost engine power just before the crash.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234
    .
    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Robert Halfoff, already.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
    I think it's called the Money Island / Flying Bridge.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    The other day a PBer (forget who) was opining that the upcoming US Senate race in New Jersey might be a Republican pickup opportunity, given the scandal engulfing Democratic incumbent Robert Mendacious (sp?).

    However . . .

    Cook Political Report - With Murphy Exit, Kim On Glide Path To Senate as New Jersey Moves to Solid Democrat

    https://www.cookpolitical.com/analysis/senate/new-jersey-senate/murphy-exit-kim-glide-path-senate-new-jersey-moves-solid-democrat

    SSI - The exit of Governor Murphy's wife, who was attempting to bully/buy her way to the US Senate (not exactly unique in US history) is good news methinks, for Democrats, for New Jersey and for Congress. (Lord know they all need ALL the help they can get!)

    Kim is something of a breath of fresh air as far as NJ politics is concerned, is he not ?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    Re: the ship that crashed into and wrecked the Key Bridge in Baltimore, now being reported that it lost engine power just before the crash.
    That was fairly obvious from the video, when all the lights go out, and there's a big puff of smoke, either from a engine problem, or more likely IMV, a rush restart. Then I think the lights go out a second time briefly.

    Apparently they also made a Mayday call to say loss of power.

    There'll be many learning lessons from this. Sadly, the maritime business ecosystem is not keen to learn lessons.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 3,796
    Nigelb said:

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    "Nothing to do with me, gov..."
    If only Mr. Anderson was as assiduous in fact-checking all the crap he has spouted over the years.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You would fit in well as a character on the Fast Show.
    Old man ranting at the Moon.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,518
    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Another of the few remaining reasonably sensible Tories bites the dust.
    Our most prolific education contributor will not enjoy Halfon's resignation letter, which includes:

    I would like to thank.....the outstanding officials in the skills, apprenticeships and higher education teams at the DfE...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    That’s like someone in the early 1900s dismissing communism as an irrelevant fringe belief.
    No, it's like current Republicans calling everyone is the Democratic party Communists.
    Especially ironic considering that MAGA-GOPers and fellow hench-people (including those infesting PB) are engaged in giving 24/7/366 oral relief (in more ways that one!) to neo-Commie Comrade-in Chief Vladimir Putin.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
    I think it's called the Money Island / Flying Bridge.
    Ship that crashed in Baltimore harbor reportedly had two pilots on board, reckon that visibility was NOT the issue.

    Instead, loss of engine power as is now being reported.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You would fit in well as a character on the Fast Show.
    Why? Who? Duh? What do I care if this is the level of discourse?

    More interestingly, I have just been invited to join the first ever river cruise down the Rio Maddalena (the Mississippi of South America) in 70 years! Embarking January 2025

    Imagine. No one has done this journey for many decades - it’s the river journey taken by Humboldt and Bolivar. Through jungle and wetland, past pirate lairs and native villages, via gorges and whirlpools. All the time the river has been off limits due to La Violencia

    At the height of the narcowars and the FARC rebellion the river was literally choked with corpses at various pinch points. Like Dorada - near Escobar’s hacienda. Or Banco. Or Mompos

    Oooooooh. *rubs aged, weary thighs with excitement*


  • anothernickanothernick Posts: 3,578

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One hopes their navigation system did not rely entirely on the captain's eyesight.

    Having said that though I am reminded of a "behind the scenes" tour of a modern cruise liner that I once did - The bridge bristled with computer screens and navigation systems so I was surprised to find a couple of guys with binoculars surveying the sea ahead of the ship. Surely this was not necessary I said to the captain, the systems would warn of any hazards. No he said, the systems only pick up large metallic objects, they would not "see" a small non-metallic boat, ships still use human lookouts to avoid the risk of collisions.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 39,557

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
    I think it's called the Money Island / Flying Bridge.
    Monkey surely?
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Portents of the end. North Korea have (according to the BBC) censored Alan Titchmarsh's jeans in a broadcast.
    Endgame.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One hopes their navigation system did not rely entirely on the captain's eyesight.

    Having said that though I am reminded of a "behind the scenes" tour of a modern cruise liner that I once did - The bridge bristled with computer screens and navigation systems so I was surprised to find a couple of guys with binoculars surveying the sea ahead of the ship. Surely this was not necessary I said to the captain, the systems would warn of any hazards. No he said, the systems only pick up large metallic objects, they would not "see" a small non-metallic boat, ships still use human lookouts to avoid the risk of collisions.
    When I sailed on a tall ship, there was always one or two people on the bow to keep an eye out for exactly that sort of thing. A semi-submerged container might have sunk the Asgard II the previous year. I got to see some brilliant biofluorescence around the bow one night; like the sea around it was being illumated by lasers.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asgard_II
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 38,841
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
    I think it's called the Money Island / Flying Bridge.
    Monkey surely?
    Sorry, finger trouble. Yes, Monkey Island.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    edited March 26

    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Another of the few remaining reasonably sensible Tories bites the dust.
    Our most prolific education contributor will not enjoy Halfon's resignation letter, which includes:

    I would like to thank.....the outstanding officials in the skills, apprenticeships and higher education teams at the DfE...
    Well, he's welcome to thank any outstanding ones he can find.

    He might be in for a long hunt, of course. On account of the fact that there are very few. If any.

    It might depend slightly on how many works meetings they have attended as well.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,352
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Another of the few remaining reasonably sensible Tories bites the dust.
    Our most prolific education contributor will not enjoy Halfon's resignation letter, which includes:

    I would like to thank.....the outstanding officials in the skills, apprenticeships and higher education teams at the DfE...
    Well, he's welcome to thank any outstanding ones he can find.

    He might be in for a long hunt, of course. On account of the fact that there are very few. If any.

    It might depend slightly on how many works meetings they have attended as well.
    In the acknowledgements section of my PhD, I thanked one of my supervisors for his 'helpful contributions', omitting the fact that these were very limited, to the extent that the plural was perhaps not justified.
  • FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Indeed, and of course those desperate to hang on to power by their grimy little fingernails at all costs like to divert, divide and rule as history has repeatedly told us...
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198
    Monbeg Genius is out of next month's Grand National.

    Owned by Baroness Mone of PPE.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 18,597

    MattW said:

    Hmmmm.

    Didn't think I would be supporting Anderson, but this seems fair enough. "In the government" has a fairly clear meaning. A lot of the time he has been critical of his own parties leadership.
    https://www.theyworkforyou.com/mp/25894/lee_anderson/ashfield/votes

    "Lee Anderson is a Conservative MP, and on the vast majority of issues follow instructions from their party and vote the same way as other Conservative MPs."
    Parliament != Government. Government is in Whitehall. Parliament is in Westminster.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090
    edited March 26
    Selebian said:

    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Another of the few remaining reasonably sensible Tories bites the dust.
    Our most prolific education contributor will not enjoy Halfon's resignation letter, which includes:

    I would like to thank.....the outstanding officials in the skills, apprenticeships and higher education teams at the DfE...
    Well, he's welcome to thank any outstanding ones he can find.

    He might be in for a long hunt, of course. On account of the fact that there are very few. If any.

    It might depend slightly on how many works meetings they have attended as well.
    In the acknowledgements section of my PhD, I thanked one of my supervisors for his 'helpful contributions', omitting the fact that these were very limited, to the extent that the plural was perhaps not justified.
    I was more thinking of the credits in Private's Progress:

    The producers gratefully acknowledge the official co-operation of absolutely nobody.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,352

    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One can see over them, though not close up; but in any case don't the bridge wings give a clear 180deg view on either beam, from bow round to quarter and stern?
    I think it's called the Money Island / Flying Bridge.
    Monkey surely?
    Sorry, finger trouble. Yes, Monkey Island.
    Your original naming was 0K :disappointed:
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 15,465

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One hopes their navigation system did not rely entirely on the captain's eyesight.

    Having said that though I am reminded of a "behind the scenes" tour of a modern cruise liner that I once did - The bridge bristled with computer screens and navigation systems so I was surprised to find a couple of guys with binoculars surveying the sea ahead of the ship. Surely this was not necessary I said to the captain, the systems would warn of any hazards. No he said, the systems only pick up large metallic objects, they would not "see" a small non-metallic boat, ships still use human lookouts to avoid the risk of collisions.
    This accident did NOT occur out in the ocean, but rather in Baltimore harbor.

    There were TWO pilots on board - that is, not members of the crew, but certified to pilot ships into & out of Baltimore to the Atlantic via Chesapeake Bay.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,081
    How many more elections are the Tories trying to ensure they will lose?
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 25,293
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You would fit in well as a character on the Fast Show.
    Why? Who? Duh? What do I care if this is the level of discourse?

    More interestingly, I have just been invited to join the first ever river cruise down the Rio Maddalena (the Mississippi of South America) in 70 years! Embarking January 2025

    Imagine. No one has done this journey for many decades - it’s the river journey taken by Humboldt and Bolivar. Through jungle and wetland, past pirate lairs and native villages, via gorges and whirlpools. All the time the river has been off limits due to La Violencia

    At the height of the narcowars and the FARC rebellion the river was literally choked with corpses at various pinch points. Like Dorada - near Escobar’s hacienda. Or Banco. Or Mompos

    Oooooooh. *rubs aged, weary thighs with excitement*


    I hope the aged weary person didn't mind.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198
    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    Portents of the end. North Korea have (according to the BBC) censored Alan Titchmarsh's jeans in a broadcast.
    Endgame.

    Feels like it should be a Nostradamus quatrain


    And the garment of the marshman
    Will be rendered with blackness in Cathay
    Moon faces averted from Genoa’s cloth
    Even as Scythia bleeds, and bridges fall
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,100
    So they had pictures of panic in New York, pictures of housing in Peterborough and some fairly dodgy (to put it mildly) statistics on violent crime in London?

    That's a less than optimal performance, it has to be said. Add in the racist and anti-Islamic undertones and the word "seized" and you have a broadcast that no political party in this country should ever have produced.

    Disappointing. Please stay after class.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 67,090

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    How did autocorrect turn that 't' into a 'c?'
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 31,898
    ydoethur said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @aljwhite

    Robert Halfon is stepping down and resigning as a minister

    Another of the few remaining reasonably sensible Tories bites the dust.
    Our most prolific education contributor will not enjoy Halfon's resignation letter, which includes:

    I would like to thank.....the outstanding officials in the skills, apprenticeships and higher education teams at the DfE...
    Well, he's welcome to thank any outstanding ones he can find.

    He might be in for a long hunt, of course. On account of the fact that there are very few.

    It might depend slightly on how many works meetings they have attended as well.
    He’s quite specific, though, that he’s thanking those in his section, not DfE officials in general. He’s done well in Harlow, which ought to be marginal.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 46,662

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    FPT

    darkage said:

    rcs1000 said:

    darkage said:

    I appreciate that this may just be me seeing what I want to see but I have become aware of signs that men in particular are getting fed up with 'woke' ; I went out for a few beers last night and on the fourth pint, my friend was agreeing on subjects like that cancelling people had gone too far, that the kids will get fed up with the totalitarian indoctrination in schools on issues like 'gender' and 'hate speech' and rebel against it; that the woke right (ie Trump 2024) are an inevitable and predictable response to the extremes of the 'woke left', etc etc. It is only a personal anecdote but for many years this group of friends were very accepting of the zeitgeist but now I am detecting that they are changing and seeing the world differently. I've also seen this with older friends as well who start to look at the left and right and comment 'they are both as bad as each other'. Something also increasingly evident with commentators on here.

    Why is it that it is always that Trump (and the MAGA right) is a reaction to woke? Why not the other way around?

    Take immigration. Under Obama, the Southern US border was essentially under control. Crossings were at a twenty year low. Trump then made a big deal of it, and the Left reacted against him.
    There is a lot in this @rcs1000.
    See also Brexit in the UK- in many ways 'woke' was an evolution of 'remain', responding in turn to the obsession with a hard Brexit, which itself was a response to the approach to EU integration pursued by the political establishment.
    "Woke" seems to me to be a catch-all term of division like "blob" or "establishment" or "deep state" not to mention "enemies of the people." It is designed to encourage fragmentation of society by persuading people that their interests are being undermined by malevolent forces conspiring against them.
    Woke is an extremely hand and nicely pejorative word for the ensemble of insane ideas, policies, politics that see a person’s unalterable identity - sexual, racial, social - as more important than anything else (like character or attitude or persona or desires), and that certain races and genders - whites, males, etc - are inherently racist and sexist and always the oppressors, and that this is THE overwhelming truth and horror of society which must be addressed above and beyond all others ..
    How many people do you imagine hold those views as you describe them (rather than a mild version of a small subset of them) ?

    If it's more than a handful, it's probably you that's insane.
    This is depressingly stupid

    I don’t think you’re that dim so I shall presume you’re at work and unable to say anything more considered, interesting or articulate, due to time pressure
    You would fit in well as a character on the Fast Show.
    Why? Who? Duh? What do I care if this is the level of discourse?

    More interestingly, I have just been invited to join the first ever river cruise down the Rio Maddalena (the Mississippi of South America) in 70 years! Embarking January 2025

    Imagine. No one has done this journey for many decades - it’s the river journey taken by Humboldt and Bolivar. Through jungle and wetland, past pirate lairs and native villages, via gorges and whirlpools. All the time the river has been off limits due to La Violencia

    At the height of the narcowars and the FARC rebellion the river was literally choked with corpses at various pinch points. Like Dorada - near Escobar’s hacienda. Or Banco. Or Mompos

    Oooooooh. *rubs aged, weary thighs with excitement*


    I hope the aged weary person didn't mind.
    He offered a bemused but good natured chuckle

  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 47,978

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    Nice revenge for being banned from Twitter.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234

    Scott_xP said:

    The ship that crashed in Baltimore this morning also crashed in Antwerp in 2016

    Not surprised given the huge stack of containers forward of the bridge! How can the captain see clearly?!
    One hopes their navigation system did not rely entirely on the captain's eyesight.

    Having said that though I am reminded of a "behind the scenes" tour of a modern cruise liner that I once did - The bridge bristled with computer screens and navigation systems so I was surprised to find a couple of guys with binoculars surveying the sea ahead of the ship. Surely this was not necessary I said to the captain, the systems would warn of any hazards. No he said, the systems only pick up large metallic objects, they would not "see" a small non-metallic boat, ships still use human lookouts to avoid the risk of collisions.
    This accident did NOT occur out in the ocean, but rather in Baltimore harbor.

    There were TWO pilots on board - that is, not members of the crew, but certified to pilot ships into & out of Baltimore to the Atlantic via Chesapeake Bay.
    Not much they can do if the power goes out completely - which seems to have happened.
  • wooliedyedwooliedyed Posts: 6,900
    Leon said:

    Portents of the end. North Korea have (according to the BBC) censored Alan Titchmarsh's jeans in a broadcast.
    Endgame.

    Feels like it should be a Nostradamus quatrain


    And the garment of the marshman
    Will be rendered with blackness in Cathay
    Moon faces averted from Genoa’s cloth
    Even as Scythia bleeds, and bridges fall
    Doom prophecy is purdy.

    It's also covered in the 112th and final stanza of The Prophecy Of The Popes. Modern scholars believe Charlie Dimmock is Peter the Roman rather than Francis the Fancyman
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,100

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    It would be really interesting to know who is push buying these shares on debut. And what they might expect from the next POTUS in return.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,198

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    Nice revenge for being banned from Twitter.
    Yes although I fear for the bank accounts of small MAGA investors.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 19,870
    https://pro.morningconsult.com/trackers/2024-presidential-election-polling

    B 43
    T 42

    Interestingly (maybe) both now have the same net favourability 46/51 (-5)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 62,234
    DavidL said:

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    It would be really interesting to know who is push buying these shares on debut. And what they might expect from the next POTUS in return.
    Who knows ?
    If it's a million small fry suckers, then nothing that they'll ever receive.

    But see also Gamestop - another loss making company that became a meme stock, and defied bankruptcy in the face of financial logic.

    Still, it did have around a thousand times the turnover of Truth Social.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 10,565
    Labour are leafleting and canvassing in Guildford with dodgy bar charts (that's our job) showing they are the main challengers. Honestly they would rather the Tories hold Guildford by trying to thwart the LDs. Why not concentrate on sensible targets (admittedly not a lot around here).
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,052

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    Nice revenge for being banned from Twitter.
    Yes although I fear for the bank accounts of small MAGA investors.
    Trump will be mortified if he makes big money on the deal but lots of his supporters lose out.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914
    DavidL said:

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    It would be really interesting to know who is push buying these shares on debut. And what they might expect from the next POTUS in return.
    I think it's a monumental short squeeze.

    Remember, this is a business doing less than $5m in sales, running a massive loss.

    Remember, too, that monetizing these businesses is hard. Because - unlike Google or Facebook - you don't know anything about your users.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 53,914
    Nigelb said:

    DavidL said:

    Trump's media company valued at nearly $9.6 billion as shares soar in debut
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/trump-s-media-company-valued-at-nearly-9-6-billion-as-shares-soar-in-debut/ar-BB1kzl9r

    World's greatest business chief.

    It would be really interesting to know who is push buying these shares on debut. And what they might expect from the next POTUS in return.
    Who knows ?
    If it's a million small fry suckers, then nothing that they'll ever receive.

    But see also Gamestop - another loss making company that became a meme stock, and defied bankruptcy in the face of financial logic.

    Still, it did have around a thousand times the turnover of Truth Social.
    It's a good point, and it will - no doubt - allow DJT to liquidate some stock, which will help with his current travails.
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,352
    DavidL said:

    So they had pictures of panic in New York, pictures of housing in Peterborough and some fairly dodgy (to put it mildly) statistics on violent crime in London?

    That's a less than optimal performance, it has to be said. Add in the racist and anti-Islamic undertones and the word "seized" and you have a broadcast that no political party in this country should ever have produced.

    Disappointing. Please stay after class.

    Please stay after class? Personally, I think it's time for expulsion.
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