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Housing: Who to blame and the solution – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    The Biden impeachment is over.

    Swalwell lists the top 10 reasons why it’s over for impeachment

    Reason 1: Fox News isn’t even carrying this today

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1770563934396813576

    About seven or eight months too early for Trump.
    The GOP have just made themselves look stupid.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Nope, it’s just drivel
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    edited March 20
    Donkeys said:

    Has anyone posted here about the unexpected resignation of the head of government of the country next door?

    Apparently he was in the USA for St Patrick's Day and met Biden.

    Would only be news, if an Irish PM did NOT go to American AND also did NOT visit with POTUS for St. Patrick's Day.

    Assumption/allegation that Varadkar's resignation - indeed unexpected - has something to do with this is a bit of a streeeeeeeeeeeetch.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Still time for Rishi to call the election?

    After Friday evening, May 2nd, no.

    I’ll bring the discussion with TSE to the top now, for your benefit.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    algarkirk said:

    The chances of a General Election on May 2nd are below 50% now, in my opinion. 🫠

    If polling day were to be May 2, with dissolution on March 26, the general election would have to be announced 21 or 22. Under electoral law, Parliament has to be dissolved – in other words, come to an end – 25 working days before a general election is held. In practice, Parliament would need a few days’ notice of dissolution to allow MPs and peers to decide which – if any – remaining pieces of non-controversial legislation should be approved. It has also become a tradition for the House of Commons to hold a “valedictory debate” just before a dissolution, during which MPs who are standing down from Parliament are given time to make a farewell speech. This means that if the election were to be on May 2, dissolution must take place no later than March 26, Sunak would need to call the election several days before dissolution took place.

    What an optimistic economic backdrop to fight an April general election campaign. Looking at how much better todays PMQs was for Rishi, armed with good news of inflation and interest rate falls to come, and still dining out on boat crossings down by a third - all those arguments will be removed from him in an Autumn campaign, where high mortgages high interests rates, rising inflation and energy costs and the record boat crossings are going to be used to flatten him.

    If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on 🤷‍♀️

    You are right. A more precise figure is, and always has been, approximately Zero%.
    What makes you sure it’s always been approximately zero? Where’s your evidence?
    The polls and past experience.

    No PM will call an election when they are 20% behind the polls unless they run out of time.

    All the other signs have made it clear May was a non starter as the Tories weren't buying billboard spaces and ads commensurate with a May general election.
    no PM will call election when 20% behind? They won’t let it time out on December 17th, hold campaign over holidays, it will give them even worse result than they deserve - so they will call and hold an election before Dec 17th, even if 20% behind.

    Billboards are so last century - check out how much Conservative Party has spent on social media advertising since December. 😦

    They are not 20 points behind anyway, they are only 7 away. It’s only 8% they need to claw back, and that certainly feels very doable in April to me, as I explained just now.

    It’s like you are living in the past, giving this bespoke 21st century situation no thought or analysis 🫣
    One of us was right about a May election and one of us wrong about a May election.

    My past looking analysis was right.
    🙂‍↔️

    Only according to the decision making of Rishi Sunak are you right.

    Not according to If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on 🤷‍♀️

    You’re basically telling me I’m wrong, because basically they didn’t have a choice for May 2nd? And that basically boils down to being too far behind in the polls?

    I am not wrong. They are not that far behind as polls you are looking at are saying. They can get the 8% they need in April.

    They did have a choice.

    My analysis was delicious 🤤
    As delicious as your analysis on the Privileges Committee clearing Boris Johnson.
    The privileges committee thing again, I was only quoting the headline on the front of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t even me predicting.

    Anyway.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llhp9Q0XOIg

    Listen to what Hunt is saying, and know he CAN’T SAY ANY OF THIS upbeat news in an autumn campaign you are predicting, with inflation going upwards, probably doubled since June, with energy costs going higher, and after high rents and mortgages has been number one economic news story throughout the summer.

    Not only that but today in interviews, Tory politicians are already coming under pressure for the rise in “boat crossings” being called liars for still repeating it’s down.

    Let me run this passed you for your analysis - in the second week of May, in nearly successive days, inflation under new energy prices will hit 2% or even less, the country will come out of recession, and the BoE will announce an interest rate cut. Is that moment of reaching its peak, from which the governments case can only deteriorate the moment for the podium outside No.10, May/June campaign - June election?

    What percentage chance are you giving a suggestion of a June election?

    Because the answer to the question “If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for helpful mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on?” It cannot be Autumn. They cannot turn down the sunshine and optimism of May & June, and campaign in a gloomy storm of failure in October. That makes no sense to my understanding of politics. I can’t be alone thinking this. 🤷‍♀️
    Double or quits on June? Anyone?
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,452
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have SEEN it, having ingested a powerful hallucinogenic.
    All that demonstrates is the power of your imagination. Which we know is quite creative.
    I’m not going to argue over what I personally witnessed and you didn’t. Let’s leave it there

    However I will note that a lot of people - even the most atheistic of atheists - find ayahuasca a profoundly spiritual experience and a fair few of them become convinced “believers” after taking it

    I'm not judging either way - simply pointing out that your experience isn't evidence of any kind of persuasiveness for the rest of us.
    No, I accept that

    However my point about ayahuasca being spiritual for many people - often to their own surprise - is worth addressing

    Nor is this spirituality cheaply won. Ayahuasca is always scary, often physically painful (vomiting and the shits), can be extremely distressing, it is sometimes the cause of breakdowns, and death is not unknown
    There's a passage in one of the John Cheese/Robin Skynner pop psychology books where JC's therapist describes something similar. An initial religious experience induced by drugs (he says something about it being necessary for him the first time to remove the blinkers), but returnable to by more normal spiritual practice.

    And even in the decaffeinated Anglican version, the routines of religion are in part about creating the sort of quiet where the quiet can talk back to you.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736
    Jezza tops the list of alternatives better than SKS amongst Labor voters

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567089448771829
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    Regarding housing, Labour could get more planning permissions for major schemes issued. But this would just be repeating what the Conservatives did in the mid 2010's until they started losing by elections in the places where the permissions were being issued. Labour can also tweak around with some other things, like supporting Council's in delivering their own houses. But in the absence of more radical solutions the overall housing statistics won't change much.

    The broader problem with housing delivery is one of structural incoherence. The government has dodged the question of planning. There is no national plan just vague and changing ideas and projects. Nothing is co-ordinated, transport projects are not connected to coherant long term plans for growth. The utilities are privately owned. Getting any project through planning is 5 years of pain and uncertainty because government departments and agencies are under resourced and often in conflict with each other. Sorting this is hard, no one has a clear answer.
  • RattersRatters Posts: 1,111
    Taz said:

    Ratters said:

    There's something peculiar about Britain in that we can shy away from our strengths.

    London and the South East is a strength. There are a huge number of highly productive sectors in the capital with some companies in satellite locations in the area. There are a large number of commuter towns with fast trains into London that are of a modest size and could be easily expanded if the political will existed.

    Lots of people want to live in the region. Build and they shall come.

    Build up too. It’s all very low density.
    That too.

    Though if you've passed through Vauxhall/Battersea in the last few years and also did so 10 years ago, you can see there are areas that have embraced high density housing.

    I suspect the widespread appeal of that (buildings beyond 3-4 stories) is going to be limited to zones 1-3 and around local town centres, but if it went that far universally it'd be a huge improvement.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Nope, it’s just drivel
    Take ayahuasca and get back to me
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    Nigelb said:

    The Biden impeachment is over.

    Swalwell lists the top 10 reasons why it’s over for impeachment

    Reason 1: Fox News isn’t even carrying this today

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1770563934396813576

    About seven or eight months too early for Trump.
    The GOP have just made themselves look stupid.

    Brilliant!
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    edited March 20

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    She didn't take out the loan, so it should be cancelled.

    If a debt relied order is needed, so be it, at any APR some losses are factored in let alone a 48% one.
    Agreed. The lender should pursue the scammers.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Nope, it’s just drivel
    Take ayahuasca and get back to me
    Not you, her ridiculous drivel about DNA.
  • FF43FF43 Posts: 17,241

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    In general banks prefer to come to an arrangement to get customers back on track and the new Consumer Duty obligations should push them towards this. Providing your acquaintance has a way to pay back in regular installments. They don't like agreeing arrangements when the customer doesn't stick to them. So I guess the question is whether there's any downside to your acquaintance talking to her bank to discuss what deal they're prepared to make?
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    RTE - Varadkar made decision to step down at weekend

    Leo Varadkar said that he made the decision to step aside "definitively" at the weekend, the Press Association new agency reports.

    "But obviously, I'd been weighing it up since Christmas/New Year but definitively only at the weekend," he said.

    "But I think once you decide that you don't want to stay on, you can't say on because it requires everything.

    "I was prepared in my own head for this for a couple of days, maybe even a couple of weeks, but I know for a lot of colleagues it's kind of come as a surprise.

    "But the fact that I'm stepping down as leader of Fine Gael doesn't mean I'm leaving Fine Gael and I'm not leaving the Dáil either. I just look forward to making my contribution and in a different way.

    "Thirteen years is a long time between the Cabinet table and seven years Taoiseach and Tánaiste, I'm just very grateful for the wonderful opportunities that I had to serve and I just want to be the guy who helps out now."

    https://www.rte.ie/news/2024/0320/1438940-leo-varadkar/
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Have you read about hypnosis, out of body experiences, near death experiences, lucid dreaming?
    You aren't the first to discover all this stuff.
    Spirally tunnels - typical NDE. Interp as "descending baroque staircase" is your left-brain doing a cultural take...
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    I take issue with almost all of these rejoin polls. None of them stipulate the scenario and the rules for our re entry. Most seem to be predicating on our old membership rights. But those have long gone, and are not coming back.
    I also think that many people are not really saying yes to rejoin they are reacting to how bad the last few years have been and deciding that it’s leaving the EU that was the problem, neatly forgetting that the inflation shock was down to Ukraine, and paying for Covid dwarfs the losses of leaving.

    Don’t get me wrong, I voted remain and would rejoin, but the polling is not being honest.

    That is exactly what the detailed polling by that Tony Blair institute showed. I hope they repeat the process at some point. People wanted to be in the Single Market, but without having to apply the four freedoms, particularly free movement. I would hazard a guess that 75% of the population would like Single Market access with entirely bespoke rules for the UK, but it ain't on offer. If the EU was that flexible we would never have had the referendum in the first place.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Have you read Huxley’s doors of perception?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Nope, it’s just drivel
    Might be; might not.
    But I've not heard anything that tempts me to try it. Which tends to suggest the latter.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Have you read Huxley’s doors of perception?
    And there are still tossers who diss Blake's "Jerusalem"!!
  • kamskikamski Posts: 5,208
    Pagan2 said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have SEEN it, having ingested a powerful hallucinogenic.
    All that demonstrates is the power of your imagination. Which we know is quite creative.
    I’m not going to argue over what I personally witnessed and you didn’t. Let’s leave it there

    However I will note that a lot of people - even the most atheistic of atheists - find ayahuasca a profoundly spiritual experience and a fair few of them become convinced “believers” after taking it

    lsd had much the same effect as did psilocybin
    Yes though the experience itself is profoundly different.

    It's also fascinating how little Leon's experiences with ayahuasca seem to have changed Leon, though maybe it's unfair to judge based on the unruffled continuity of babbling on here.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,822
    Nigelb said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @katyballs

    🚨 Sunak to Tory MPs tonight:

    ‘We are in the fight of our lives.

    This battle will define us, when the going got tough, when the polls were against us did we dig deep and fight or did we turn in on ourselves?’

    Narrator: Folks, they turned in on themselves...

    He's supposed to be governing, not fighting.

    Daft as Mordaunt's daft conference speech.
    When the polls got tough for Boris and then Truss, did brave Sir Rishi dig deep and fight? I rather thought he instructed his peeps to brief away until the leader's position became untenable.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Red Wall voters wish there was someone else other than Sunak and SKS

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567073812361532

    Change the record.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,452
    glw said:

    I take issue with almost all of these rejoin polls. None of them stipulate the scenario and the rules for our re entry. Most seem to be predicating on our old membership rights. But those have long gone, and are not coming back.
    I also think that many people are not really saying yes to rejoin they are reacting to how bad the last few years have been and deciding that it’s leaving the EU that was the problem, neatly forgetting that the inflation shock was down to Ukraine, and paying for Covid dwarfs the losses of leaving.

    Don’t get me wrong, I voted remain and would rejoin, but the polling is not being honest.

    That is exactly what the detailed polling by that Tony Blair institute showed. I hope they repeat the process at some point. People wanted to be in the Single Market, but without having to apply the four freedoms, particularly free movement. I would hazard a guess that 75% of the population would like Single Market access with entirely bespoke rules for the UK, but it ain't on offer. If the EU was that flexible we would never have had the referendum in the first place.
    In other words, what we'd really like is to have our cake and eat it. See also tax and spend.
  • Jezza tops the list of alternatives better than SKS amongst Labor voters

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567089448771829

    It's so good we've got the actual counterfactual. They had Corbyn and they voted for Johnson instead. 80 seat majority.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have seen this in your mind's eye. I believe you. That's why I used the word Tangible.

    Maybe "witness-faith"?
    It’s interesting that English apparently lacks the precise word
    "Knowledge" is the English word:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJD9smeA-HA

    (FWIW I am not a Jungian, but I believe in giving credit where it's due.)
    No, not visceral enough

    This is “knowing” as extreme physical and mental experience

    Anyway I approach the barbers. This is scarier than ayahuasca

    “Mas largo!”
  • Why even bother to go for October? Why not just wait until Parliament dissolves automatically?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have SEEN it, having ingested a powerful hallucinogenic.
    All that demonstrates is the power of your imagination. Which we know is quite creative.
    I’m not going to argue over what I personally witnessed and you didn’t. Let’s leave it there

    However I will note that a lot of people - even the most atheistic of atheists - find ayahuasca a profoundly spiritual experience and a fair few of them become convinced “believers” after taking it

    Brain damage symptom.
  • @Eabhal your statistic of 2 million extra "spare" bedrooms in the past decade is deeply, deeply irrelevant unimpressive no matter how you slice it.

    Not only has our population increased by millions more than that in that time, but so too has our over-60s population increased in the same time too.

    Our over 60 population in 2024 is 17.7 million while in 2014 it was 13.3 million.

    So we have over 4 million extra people past the age of having children living with them (unless they had children very late, which some do of course but then some will have younger so it balances). Which vastly, vastly exceeds the 2 million "extra" spare rooms. So its moot and irrelevant.

    Having an old person be alive for longer still living in the same home they lived in decades earlier doesn't mean that a young person doesn't still need a three bedroom home when they get their own home, as they've either got or are going to have a family to bring up in that home. And its the young predominantly who move into the new homes.

    Which is why construction should be construction of three bed homes predominantly. Even without factoring in studies or guest rooms.
  • Why even bother to go for October? Why not just wait until Parliament dissolves automatically?

    That's what is going to happen.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    PB point of order - The Vicar is only PBer self-authorized to issue pseudo-theological edicts ex cathedra.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have seen this in your mind's eye. I believe you. That's why I used the word Tangible.

    Maybe "witness-faith"?
    It’s interesting that English apparently lacks the precise word
    "Knowledge" is the English word:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJD9smeA-HA

    (FWIW I am not a Jungian, but I believe in giving credit where it's due.)
    No, not visceral enough

    This is “knowing” as extreme physical and mental experience
    That's your take on exactly what Jung was talking about in that clip.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    algarkirk said:

    The chances of a General Election on May 2nd are below 50% now, in my opinion. 🫠

    If polling day were to be May 2, with dissolution on March 26, the general election would have to be announced 21 or 22. Under electoral law, Parliament has to be dissolved – in other words, come to an end – 25 working days before a general election is held. In practice, Parliament would need a few days’ notice of dissolution to allow MPs and peers to decide which – if any – remaining pieces of non-controversial legislation should be approved. It has also become a tradition for the House of Commons to hold a “valedictory debate” just before a dissolution, during which MPs who are standing down from Parliament are given time to make a farewell speech. This means that if the election were to be on May 2, dissolution must take place no later than March 26, Sunak would need to call the election several days before dissolution took place.

    What an optimistic economic backdrop to fight an April general election campaign. Looking at how much better todays PMQs was for Rishi, armed with good news of inflation and interest rate falls to come, and still dining out on boat crossings down by a third - all those arguments will be removed from him in an Autumn campaign, where high mortgages high interests rates, rising inflation and energy costs and the record boat crossings are going to be used to flatten him.

    If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on 🤷‍♀️

    You are right. A more precise figure is, and always has been, approximately Zero%.
    What makes you sure it’s always been approximately zero? Where’s your evidence?
    The polls and past experience.

    No PM will call an election when they are 20% behind the polls unless they run out of time.

    All the other signs have made it clear May was a non starter as the Tories weren't buying billboard spaces and ads commensurate with a May general election.
    no PM will call election when 20% behind? They won’t let it time out on December 17th, hold campaign over holidays, it will give them even worse result than they deserve - so they will call and hold an election before Dec 17th, even if 20% behind.

    Billboards are so last century - check out how much Conservative Party has spent on social media advertising since December. 😦

    They are not 20 points behind anyway, they are only 7 away. It’s only 8% they need to claw back, and that certainly feels very doable in April to me, as I explained just now.

    It’s like you are living in the past, giving this bespoke 21st century situation no thought or analysis 🫣
    One of us was right about a May election and one of us wrong about a May election.

    My past looking analysis was right.
    🙂‍↔️

    Only according to the decision making of Rishi Sunak are you right.

    Not according to If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on 🤷‍♀️

    You’re basically telling me I’m wrong, because basically they didn’t have a choice for May 2nd? And that basically boils down to being too far behind in the polls?

    I am not wrong. They are not that far behind as polls you are looking at are saying. They can get the 8% they need in April.

    They did have a choice.

    My analysis was delicious 🤤
    As delicious as your analysis on the Privileges Committee clearing Boris Johnson.
    The privileges committee thing again, I was only quoting the headline on the front of the Daily Telegraph, it wasn’t even me predicting.

    Anyway.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=llhp9Q0XOIg

    Listen to what Hunt is saying, and know he CAN’T SAY ANY OF THIS upbeat news in an autumn campaign you are predicting, with inflation going upwards, probably doubled since June, with energy costs going higher, and after high rents and mortgages has been number one economic news story throughout the summer.

    Not only that but today in interviews, Tory politicians are already coming under pressure for the rise in “boat crossings” being called liars for still repeating it’s down.

    Let me run this passed you for your analysis - in the second week of May, in nearly successive days, inflation under new energy prices will hit 2% or even less, the country will come out of recession, and the BoE will announce an interest rate cut. Is that moment of reaching its peak, from which the governments case can only deteriorate the moment for the podium outside No.10, May/June campaign - June election?

    What percentage chance are you giving a suggestion of a June election?

    Because the answer to the question “If you are not choosing a date based on forecasts for helpful mood music of your campaign, what are you choosing it on?” It cannot be Autumn. They cannot turn down the sunshine and optimism of May & June, and campaign in a gloomy storm of failure in October. That makes no sense to my understanding of politics. I can’t be alone thinking this. 🤷‍♀️
    Double or quits on June? Anyone?
    The thing is, your argument makes sense but it also made sense for 2 May, which Sunny has bottled like the yellow-bellied chicken he is. Most likely he will cluck-up June too, and it will be October.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Have you read about hypnosis, out of body experiences, near death experiences, lucid dreaming?
    You aren't the first to discover all this stuff.
    Spirally tunnels - typical NDE. Interp as "descending baroque staircase" is your left-brain doing a cultural take...
    Yes of course
  • JohnLilburneJohnLilburne Posts: 6,312
    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have seen this in your mind's eye. I believe you. That's why I used the word Tangible.

    Maybe "witness-faith"?
    It’s interesting that English apparently lacks the precise word
    "Knowledge" is the English word:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJD9smeA-HA

    (FWIW I am not a Jungian, but I believe in giving credit where it's due.)
    No, not visceral enough

    This is “knowing” as extreme physical and mental experience

    Anyway I approach the barbers. This is scarier than ayahuasca

    “Mas largo!”
    Robert A Heinlein created "grok" which is sort of to know in a visceral way. Apparently had some counter-culture use in the 60s, until they realised he was a rabid right-winger
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Jezza tops the list of alternatives better than SKS amongst Labor voters

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567089448771829

    He’s popular Down Under? Who knew?
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    glw said:

    I take issue with almost all of these rejoin polls. None of them stipulate the scenario and the rules for our re entry. Most seem to be predicating on our old membership rights. But those have long gone, and are not coming back.
    I also think that many people are not really saying yes to rejoin they are reacting to how bad the last few years have been and deciding that it’s leaving the EU that was the problem, neatly forgetting that the inflation shock was down to Ukraine, and paying for Covid dwarfs the losses of leaving.

    Don’t get me wrong, I voted remain and would rejoin, but the polling is not being honest.

    That is exactly what the detailed polling by that Tony Blair institute showed. I hope they repeat the process at some point. People wanted to be in the Single Market, but without having to apply the four freedoms, particularly free movement. I would hazard a guess that 75% of the population would like Single Market access with entirely bespoke rules for the UK, but it ain't on offer. If the EU was that flexible we would never have had the referendum in the first place.
    In other words, what we'd really like is to have our cake and eat it. See also tax and spend.
    Exactly and when the EU says "No cake for you!" I would expect the public to change their mind.
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Red Wall voters wish there was someone else other than Sunak and SKS

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567073812361532

    Change the record.
    Change the leader I think u must mean

    58% of Labour voters want someone better than SKS only 9% say they are SKS fans
  • bigjohnowlsbigjohnowls Posts: 22,736

    Red Wall voters wish there was someone else other than Sunak and SKS

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567073812361532

    Change the record.
    Change the leader I think u must mean

    58% of Labour voters want someone better than SKS only 9% say they are SKS fans
    17% not 9%
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805
    FF43 said:

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    In general banks prefer to come to an arrangement to get customers back on track and the new Consumer Duty obligations should push them towards this. Providing your acquaintance has a way to pay back in regular installments. They don't like agreeing arrangements when the customer doesn't stick to them. So I guess the question is whether there's any downside to your acquaintance talking to her bank to discuss what deal they're prepared to make?
    Well, it's not her bank that provided the loan - it's a 3rd party online loan platform.

    I am going take some advice internally but I suspect we will try to make contact with the lender to reach an agreement and I suspect we will fail, as it's generally impossible to reach someone who can make a decision.

    Then the client will probably be pushed to take a Debt Relief Order which will wipe the debt after 12 months. Not to do so would leave her open to having her meagre assets (a car she needs for getting to work) confiscated.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,123
    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Speaking of strange hallucinogenic out of body experiences. I just heard a tardis taking off / disappearing outside. I’d say about 100m down the road. Too late to check at the window. I wonder what that was all about.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Why even bother to go for October? Why not just wait until Parliament dissolves automatically?

    That's what is going to happen.
    Widely available at double-figure odds. Assume you’ve put your house on it?
  • FF43 said:

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    In general banks prefer to come to an arrangement to get customers back on track and the new Consumer Duty obligations should push them towards this. Providing your acquaintance has a way to pay back in regular installments. They don't like agreeing arrangements when the customer doesn't stick to them. So I guess the question is whether there's any downside to your acquaintance talking to her bank to discuss what deal they're prepared to make?
    Well, it's not her bank that provided the loan - it's a 3rd party online loan platform.

    I am going take some advice internally but I suspect we will try to make contact with the lender to reach an agreement and I suspect we will fail, as it's generally impossible to reach someone who can make a decision.

    Then the client will probably be pushed to take a Debt Relief Order which will wipe the debt after 12 months. Not to do so would leave her open to having her meagre assets (a car she needs for getting to work) confiscated.
    I'm not sure how this works, can her assets be confiscated for an unsecured loan?
  • OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,898
    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    The first time I took magic mushrooms I was convinced I could hear people's whispered conversations at the other end of the tube station platform. I also decided that my hands were very happy. However, I am fairly sure that both these beliefs were a load of bollocks. Getting off your tits occasionally is great fun but don't invest it with a deeper significance it doesn't possess.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    edited March 20

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    In addition to other comments covered it sounds as if some way of covering the £5k gap (or part of the gap depending on the other party stance) may be needed, especially if the bank won't give her the overdraft back (is it unauthorised?).

    One need is for this to be as efficient as possible, and I don't know how bank charges work currently.

    Possible options include LA emergency loans, local credit unions, local charities etc. But there's the trust / guarantee issue.

    I've occasionally done smallish (not £5k - biggest probably £2k) short term informal interest free loans of that type where Ts have had an unexpected cash flow issue (eg a dog has died and a vet's cremation / disposal bill needs paying), where my trust in the individual is the guarantee, and old-fashioned kindness / loyalty is the motive. They get to avoid all the complication and any expense.

    For me that comes from the cash reserve that all LLs need on hand. But as you are an institution I don't think you have an informal option, and can't be informal with cash funds.
  • I hypothesised way before MoonRabbit jumped on it, that June was a possibility assuming Rishi is forced into it after the local elections.

    Failing that, I am more and more convinced he just won't go for an election at all.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    edited March 20
    Whether or not this is good for his campaign, these chip investments make huge sense for the economic and strategic future of the U.S.

    In Arizona, Biden drops $8.5B on Intel. Will it help his campaign?
    The White House says grants will create 10,000 jobs in the state where Biden squeaked to victory in 2020.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2024/03/20/in-arizona-biden-drops-8-5b-on-intel-will-it-help-his-campaign-00148079

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
  • Why even bother to go for October? Why not just wait until Parliament dissolves automatically?

    That's what is going to happen.
    Widely available at double-figure odds. Assume you’ve put your house on it?
    Of course I've not, I'm not an idiot.

    But I have bet on it.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,792

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    Ye gods.
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
    https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-aside-from-Terence-McKenna-encountered-self-transforming-machine-elves-during-a-DMT-trip-and-if-so-how-would-you-describe-that-experience

    “I encountered one once, several years ago, while under the influence of Ayahuasca. It was the first time I felt my consciousness completely leave my body—I literally had no feeling whatsoever. My mind ended up in this space that was nothing but blackness. There was no concept of space or time. This creature popped into the space, out of nowhere. It looked like a mixture between an elf and a tree frog. It was green with big black eyes. It seemed very curious about and how I got there, and it realized I was just as curious about it. Its personality was very playful. It started creating neon blocks in the darkness as I watched. It created a few of them and (without words) told me, “Now you try.” I created some neon blocks and the elf seemed happy to have someone to play with. It began stretching the blocks horizontally into rectangles, extending them in my direction. I started stretching them too. I asked, “Can you change the colors?” We began changing the colors together. I then asked, “Do they have to be shapes?” Then the rectangles and blocks began to stretch upwards into an archway. Together we created a cathedral-like structure and the elf climbed onto a pillar and disappeared. As the elf disappeared, I came back to reality. A friend of mine explained that I had been motionless for 2 hours and the shaman had even stopped by to check if I was still breathing. I have had several more out of body experiences since this one, but never encountered another machine elf.”

    That they exist is undeniable, cause so many have met them whilst flat out on a trip. Question is, where are they?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    The first time I took magic mushrooms I was convinced I could hear people's whispered conversations at the other end of the tube station platform. I also decided that my hands were very happy. However, I am fairly sure that both these beliefs were a load of bollocks. Getting off your tits occasionally is great fun but don't invest it with a deeper significance it doesn't possess.
    Magic mushrooms ... I was just watching this at the weekend.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=988j2-4CdgM
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,311
    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    I'm back to a traditional razor with blades, shaving soap and a brush - far more sustainable.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,683

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
    https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-aside-from-Terence-McKenna-encountered-self-transforming-machine-elves-during-a-DMT-trip-and-if-so-how-would-you-describe-that-experience

    “I encountered one once, several years ago, while under the influence of Ayahuasca. It was the first time I felt my consciousness completely leave my body—I literally had no feeling whatsoever. My mind ended up in this space that was nothing but blackness. There was no concept of space or time. This creature popped into the space, out of nowhere. It looked like a mixture between an elf and a tree frog. It was green with big black eyes. It seemed very curious about and how I got there, and it realized I was just as curious about it. Its personality was very playful. It started creating neon blocks in the darkness as I watched. It created a few of them and (without words) told me, “Now you try.” I created some neon blocks and the elf seemed happy to have someone to play with. It began stretching the blocks horizontally into rectangles, extending them in my direction. I started stretching them too. I asked, “Can you change the colors?” We began changing the colors together. I then asked, “Do they have to be shapes?” Then the rectangles and blocks began to stretch upwards into an archway. Together we created a cathedral-like structure and the elf climbed onto a pillar and disappeared. As the elf disappeared, I came back to reality. A friend of mine explained that I had been motionless for 2 hours and the shaman had even stopped by to check if I was still breathing. I have had several more out of body experiences since this one, but never encountered another machine elf.”

    That they exist is undeniable, cause so many have met them whilst flat out on a trip. Question is, where are they?
    A figment of misfiring neurons. They exist only in your imagination.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,341

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    Ye gods.
    https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/daily-express-front-page-2024-03-21/
  • glwglw Posts: 9,954

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    Oh God, another stupid election of "24 hours to save the NHS" versus "triple lock".
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645
    edited March 20

    Why even bother to go for October? Why not just wait until Parliament dissolves automatically?

    That's what is going to happen.
    Widely available at double-figure odds. Assume you’ve put your house on it?
    Of course I've not, I'm not an idiot.

    But I have bet on it.
    I think that’s 17th December Parliament runs out. Letting it run out, would it not look like you are out of control of your destiny and utterly indecisive?

    And the campaign month itself, over the holiday period? Surely you want generous voters, not piss them off?
    “Where’s the Christmas film mummy?”
    “Taken off for the big interview with Rishi Sunak.”

    And early December like last time, it’s sort of still Autumnal? January much darker and the weather more likely to be hazardous?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    edited March 20
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    The first time I took magic mushrooms I was convinced I could hear people's whispered conversations at the other end of the tube station platform. I also decided that my hands were very happy. However, I am fairly sure that both these beliefs were a load of bollocks. Getting off your tits occasionally is great fun but don't invest it with a deeper significance it doesn't possess.
    I’ve done magic mushrooms A LOT. Some of my best psychedelic experiences have been on shrooms. For the reasons you cite - they are funny, lightly trippy, a hoot. They are absolutely not spiritual - at least for me (and most people, that’s why they are popular, they aren’t fearsome)

    Comparing Liberty Caps to ayahuasca is like comparing aspirin to heroin, or, better, its like comparing “watching an episode of Friends” to “first seeing the lava crater of Erta Ale at night”

    I’ve been to Erta Ale at night. Looked like this



  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,853
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    Are there any non-cranky books where stories of personal religious revelation are collected? It seems like something that would be hard to understand without experiencing it, and one can hardly conjure that up.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,899
    On a £2bn Bitcoin money-laundering operation, involving The Lady who Came in from the Chinese Takeaway.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68620253
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391

    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    japc said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    Faith is the word. A belief in something for which there is no tangible evidence.
    No, I have SEEN this

    Perhaps that’s it. I don’t believe in god or know god exists nor do I have a mere faith in a god: I have WITNESSED God (or the divine or another reality or whatever you want to call it).
    You have seen this in your mind's eye. I believe you. That's why I used the word Tangible.

    Maybe "witness-faith"?
    It’s interesting that English apparently lacks the precise word
    "Knowledge" is the English word:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJD9smeA-HA

    (FWIW I am not a Jungian, but I believe in giving credit where it's due.)
    No, not visceral enough

    This is “knowing” as extreme physical and mental experience

    Anyway I approach the barbers. This is scarier than ayahuasca

    “Mas largo!”
    Robert A Heinlein created "grok" which is sort of to know in a visceral way. Apparently had some counter-culture use in the 60s, until they realised he was a rabid right-winger
    ... which is why Musk used it for his AI?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    I'm back to a traditional razor with blades, shaving soap and a brush - far more sustainable.
    Since Covid I gave up the wet shaves and just use an electric one every week or so. I imagine many others have done likewise.
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    After 2 May, what % of Tory activists will be thinking yeah, Rishi Sunak, he's just the guy we want leading the party into the general election?
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,123
    glw said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    Oh God, another stupid election of "24 hours to save the NHS" versus "triple lock".
    Looks that way.
  • RogerRoger Posts: 19,972
    edited March 20
    OT. https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/more-than-1000-hollywood-creatives-condemn-jonathan-glazer-speech/

    If you add the 1000 signatories togetbher you still end up with something less than 5% as creative as Jonathan Glazer.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,991
    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    The discordians have a saying that is apposite "When not in doubt, get in doubt as quickly as possible"
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    I hypothesised way before MoonRabbit jumped on it, that June was a possibility assuming Rishi is forced into it after the local elections.

    Failing that, I am more and more convinced he just won't go for an election at all.

    I ruled out June and went May 2nd thinking the locals will be too bad to hold election in May or June.

    2015 was doing both same day, it does save money.

    But I now realise it’s impossible for the locals to be bad for Sunak - it’s not that type of locals - the very worst headline can be from two mayors, lost both. Even that worst case, it’s not even going to make the front pages and will soon be forgotten.

    That buoyant Rishy had a good PMQs today on back of the inflation news, and new to me today is that week in May inflation falls below 2%, interest rate cut announced, AND economy comes out of recession - all announced in one week, maybe that’s the optimum moment of good news they have been waiting to fight on.
  • japcjapc Posts: 5

    FF43 said:

    O/T I came across an interesting issue today at CAB. It's a bit long but I have a PB brains trust question at the end. I can obviously only share the general details but in essence:

    - This person was subject to a clever phishing attack late last year and unwittingly gave the scammers enough information to guess her password and access her bank account.
    - As she is relatively poor the scammers couldn't pinch much money from her already heavily overdrawn account.
    - Her high street bank spotted the unusual activity and quickly cancelled her debit card, made her change her online password, and refunded the fraudulent transactions (well done them).
    - In the meantime the scammers, presumably realising the account was empty, used the victim's personal details to arrange a £5,000 loan from a well-known online loans platform that lends to clients with poor credit ratings.
    - Sadly for the scammers, by the time the loan arrived in the victim's account they were locked out.

    So far, so straighforward. At this point simply contact the lender, get them to cancel the loan and return the £5,000 - sorted.

    Unfortunately though, the individual is not great with money, she is poor and heavily overdrawn. Or rather was - but now the overdraft has been cleared and there's a thousand or so to spare in the account.

    Not pretending (or really wanting) to know how that's happened she decided to clear one or two overdue bills and before you know it the £5,000 has completely gone.

    Then she realises that she's on the hook for £190 pm repayments to the lender (at 48% APR ffs!), that she can't afford. For five years.

    So, what to do?

    She can't pay back the principal (it's certain her bank will not be so generous with her overdraft this time round).

    Should she approach the lender explain the situation, get them to cancel the loan, and offer to pay it back at what she can afford (£20pm max), ideally with no interest? That'll take over 20 years btw, much longer if the insist on interest.

    If she takes debt advice and she'll probably be led to a Debt Relief Order, which would clear this, her only debt. Lender loses out but fuck it - 48% APR, they must expect some losses.

    Bottom line is, she never took out the loan - though she has spent the money, of course.

    Any ideas?

    In general banks prefer to come to an arrangement to get customers back on track and the new Consumer Duty obligations should push them towards this. Providing your acquaintance has a way to pay back in regular installments. They don't like agreeing arrangements when the customer doesn't stick to them. So I guess the question is whether there's any downside to your acquaintance talking to her bank to discuss what deal they're prepared to make?
    Well, it's not her bank that provided the loan - it's a 3rd party online loan platform.

    I am going take some advice internally but I suspect we will try to make contact with the lender to reach an agreement and I suspect we will fail, as it's generally impossible to reach someone who can make a decision.

    Then the client will probably be pushed to take a Debt Relief Order which will wipe the debt after 12 months. Not to do so would leave her open to having her meagre assets (a car she needs for getting to work) confiscated.
    I'm not sure how this works, can her assets be confiscated for an unsecured loan?
    Can we buy the debt, for pennies on the pound, and simply forgive it?
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,909
    edited March 20
    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    This is plausible. What would be the fourth element?
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,853
    Roger said:

    OT. https://www.jewishnews.co.uk/more-than-1000-hollywood-creatives-condemn-jonathan-glazer-speech/

    If you add the 1000 signatories togetbher you still end up with something 5% as creative as Jonathan Glazer.

    Being creatively talented makes his political or moral opinions correct?
  • DonkeysDonkeys Posts: 723
    edited March 20

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
    https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-aside-from-Terence-McKenna-encountered-self-transforming-machine-elves-during-a-DMT-trip-and-if-so-how-would-you-describe-that-experience

    “I encountered one once, several years ago, while under the influence of Ayahuasca. It was the first time I felt my consciousness completely leave my body—I literally had no feeling whatsoever. My mind ended up in this space that was nothing but blackness. There was no concept of space or time. This creature popped into the space, out of nowhere. It looked like a mixture between an elf and a tree frog. It was green with big black eyes. It seemed very curious about and how I got there, and it realized I was just as curious about it. Its personality was very playful. It started creating neon blocks in the darkness as I watched. It created a few of them and (without words) told me, “Now you try.” I created some neon blocks and the elf seemed happy to have someone to play with. It began stretching the blocks horizontally into rectangles, extending them in my direction. I started stretching them too. I asked, “Can you change the colors?” We began changing the colors together. I then asked, “Do they have to be shapes?” Then the rectangles and blocks began to stretch upwards into an archway. Together we created a cathedral-like structure and the elf climbed onto a pillar and disappeared. As the elf disappeared, I came back to reality. A friend of mine explained that I had been motionless for 2 hours and the shaman had even stopped by to check if I was still breathing. I have had several more out of body experiences since this one, but never encountered another machine elf.”

    That they exist is undeniable, cause so many have met them whilst flat out on a trip. Question is, where are they?
    Drugs are not needed for such experiences.

    Encountering entities while in an altered state that you know have their own consciousness, and which notice you but may or may not be particularly friendly, is a hallmark of an astral dream.

    Not all dreams are astral.

    Nobody has yet figured out "where" these entities are. Perhaps because that is the wrong question.

    Nice account by McKenna though.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214
    Donkeys said:

    After 2 May, what % of Tory activists will be thinking yeah, Rishi Sunak, he's just the guy we want leading the party into the general election?

    At some point surely even Tory activists must decide the game is up and just adopt the brace position. They can then regroup with the other survivors after the election.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991

    p

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    This is plausible. What would be the fourth element?
    A crystal of Pure Maggie.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,311
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    I accept the intoxication is more extreme in the case of ayahuasca, but what is collective worship if not a form of mental intoxication?

    I get the same dancing to techno music - with or without mdma it has at times been an almost religious experience.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,991
    maxh said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    I accept the intoxication is more extreme in the case of ayahuasca, but what is collective worship if not a form of mental intoxication?

    I get the same dancing to techno music - with or without mdma it has at times been an almost religious experience.
    Certainly a vision of the christian hell
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Years ago, I read about the effects of new environmental regulations in southern California. The economists who studied it learned that it took an average of five years to build a house, starting with the first permit application. Large firms could cope with that delay, by keeping a steady stream of requests for permits.

    Small contractors couldn't -- and they were the ones providing the price competition.

    There were few enough large firms, even in southern California, that I would assume there would be some tacit cooperation among them to keep prices high.

    (In general, I think you should have at least five competing firms, if you want vigorous, sustained price competition.)
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    Or it's our own minds that created the revelation.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Pagan2 said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    The discordians have a saying that is apposite "When not in doubt, get in doubt as quickly as possible"
    Can well remember, back in the day, getting drunk as a lord (or was it high as a loon?) and enjoying the late, great Frankie Yankovic performing on his discordian!

    Frankie Yankovic - The Pennsylvania Polka
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JI0-qjvq1I
  • MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,645

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Fascinating

    I absolutely believe ayahuasca throws open the doors of perception. All the reality that is normally filtered out - because we don’t need it to survive as am omnivorous but vulnerable ape on the plains of
    Africa - suddenly surges in. It is a flood of super reality - magnificent but terrifying - and I can see how you could drown. I can see why we filter it out. It is unnecessary and REALLY distracting

    You’d get eaten by a leopard if you saw all that all the time, standing there like a star struck dork under the acacia
    Nope, it’s just drivel
    Take ayahuasca and get back to me
    Not you, her ridiculous drivel about DNA.
    How do they know what to do then, Mr Smarty turbopants, if they are not communicating with each other.

    And if you concede they communicate, why can’t it be musical? Did you click the links to see how scientific this is?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,214

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    This is plausible. What would be the fourth element?
    An “aspiration” (that way he doesn’t need to put it in the treasury figures) to bring the OAP up to the OECD average as a percentage of average incomes, perhaps. The OECD mean is around 60% of working age income. In Italy it’s over 80%!
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    One of the strangest things about the way we build cities today is that a decision was arbitrarily made to stop doing the sort of things that made them so wonderful in the first place

    Bath's Pulteney Bridge is a treasure, but a similar scheme would never pass today.

    https://twitter.com/Cobylefko/status/1770578798280430001
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    carnforth said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    Are there any non-cranky books where stories of personal religious revelation are collected? It seems like something that would be hard to understand without experiencing it, and one can hardly conjure that up.
    There are plenty. Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich for example.

    But rather like listening to people's tales of drug experiences it generally doesn't help. The experience is beyond words and has to be firsthand. Inevitably all written works are second or third hand, or seen through a glass darkly.

    Pretty much all religions are based on a trilogy of theology, liturgy and mysticism, but without the mystical experience the others are just words and rituals.

    So whether a Catholic retreat, the fasting of Ramadan or the meditations of Buddhism, it is the mystical experience that needs to be sought.

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121

    Jezza tops the list of alternatives better than SKS amongst Labor voters

    https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1770567089448771829

    Toryjohnowls
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 2,000
    MattW said:

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    I'm back to a traditional razor with blades, shaving soap and a brush - far more sustainable.
    Rechargeable AA batteries, green electricity and a travel electric shaver I was given for my birthday…49 years ago. That’s good enough for my conscience.
  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,991

    Pagan2 said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    The discordians have a saying that is apposite "When not in doubt, get in doubt as quickly as possible"
    Can well remember, back in the day, getting drunk as a lord (or was it high as a loon?) and enjoying the late, great Frankie Yankovic performing on his discordian!

    Frankie Yankovic - The Pennsylvania Polka
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JI0-qjvq1I
    You might find thats an accordian
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    Speaking of California, at one time (and perhaps still) there was a firm in the state that would undertake to find an endangered species for you -- if you wanted to block development in your area.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,391

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    This is plausible. What would be the fourth element?
    If I remember the films correctly, the Fourth Protocol governs nuclear terrorism and the Fifth Element is love, but I don't know what the Fourth Element is, sorry 😞
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,187
    edited March 20
    Nigelb said:

    The Biden impeachment is over.

    Swalwell lists the top 10 reasons why it’s over for impeachment

    Reason 1: Fox News isn’t even carrying this today

    https://twitter.com/Acyn/status/1770563934396813576

    About seven or eight months too early for Trump.
    The GOP have just made themselves look stupid.

    Reminder: The REASON Hunter didn't show up is bc Jamie Comer said he'd call Jared. And did not.
    https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1770579468190360013
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,121
    viewcode said:

    TimS said:

    Express claiming an exclusive that Sunak will put the triple lock for baby boomers at the heart of his manifesto.

    He should really go large on this. Make it a quadruple lock. Like with razors, Gillette’s Mach 3 wasn’t enough so Wilkinson sword went for the Quattro.

    Fire up the Quattro, Rishi.
    This is plausible. What would be the fourth element?
    If I remember the films correctly, the Fourth Protocol governs nuclear terrorism and the Fifth Element is love, but I don't know what the Fourth Element is, sorry 😞
    Multipass!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 49,127
    maxh said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    I accept the intoxication is more extreme in the case of ayahuasca, but what is collective worship if not a form of mental intoxication?

    I get the same dancing to techno music - with or without mdma it has at times been an almost religious experience.
    Music, movement and collective action are common to many mystical experiences, but it isn't just about enjoying it while it lasts, it is about a transformation where nothing is the same again.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,582
    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
    https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-aside-from-Terence-McKenna-encountered-self-transforming-machine-elves-during-a-DMT-trip-and-if-so-how-would-you-describe-that-experience

    “I encountered one once, several years ago, while under the influence of Ayahuasca. It was the first time I felt my consciousness completely leave my body—I literally had no feeling whatsoever. My mind ended up in this space that was nothing but blackness. There was no concept of space or time. This creature popped into the space, out of nowhere. It looked like a mixture between an elf and a tree frog. It was green with big black eyes. It seemed very curious about and how I got there, and it realized I was just as curious about it. Its personality was very playful. It started creating neon blocks in the darkness as I watched. It created a few of them and (without words) told me, “Now you try.” I created some neon blocks and the elf seemed happy to have someone to play with. It began stretching the blocks horizontally into rectangles, extending them in my direction. I started stretching them too. I asked, “Can you change the colors?” We began changing the colors together. I then asked, “Do they have to be shapes?” Then the rectangles and blocks began to stretch upwards into an archway. Together we created a cathedral-like structure and the elf climbed onto a pillar and disappeared. As the elf disappeared, I came back to reality. A friend of mine explained that I had been motionless for 2 hours and the shaman had even stopped by to check if I was still breathing. I have had several more out of body experiences since this one, but never encountered another machine elf.”

    That they exist is undeniable, cause so many have met them whilst flat out on a trip. Question is, where are they?
    Drugs are not needed for such experiences.

    Encountering entities while in an altered state that you know have their own consciousness, and which notice you but may or may not be particularly friendly, is a hallmark of an astral dream.

    Not all dreams are astral.

    Nobody has yet figured out "where" these entities are. Perhaps because that is the wrong question.

    Nice account by McKenna though.
    There are three or four top neuroscientists in the world investigating this exact phenomenon: the strangely shared hallucinations induced by ayahuasca - and especially its famous constituent alkaloid DMT

    One of them was with me when I did ayahuasca in the jungle two weeks back

    This is a matter of genuine scientific discovery. Indeed the whole field of psychedelics has exploded in recent years. What do they do, and why?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,991
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    I had a fascinating discussion once with a lovely Mormon girl about 'feeling' God. She was quite taken by me mentioning A Study in Scarlet too as she hadn't read it. Then I had to run off and catch my bus as there wasn't another for an hour. I saw her give me a wave as I ran up the hill. Every time I listen to this Bibio song I think of that moment.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr1hw3KQ7g8

  • Pagan2Pagan2 Posts: 9,991
    edited March 20
    Leon said:

    Donkeys said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    “double helix”

    Isn’t it scientifically proven the Strands of DNA entwine in certain way by singing song to each other?

    If you are unaware of this science it’s spooky you used this phrase after ayahuasca
    What? They sing?? Yes I was unaware of this

    Are you having a laugh?!
    No it’s true.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protein_music#:~:text=Pink noise (the correlation structure,to music, it sounds musical.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/dna-makes-sweet-music/#

    Certainly terms of seeing we don’t see reality with all the filters our DNA switched on, and things like those drugs mess with the brain filters for sure, but they probably mess with the sound filters too - there’s probably a background noise DNA switches off because we don’t need to constantly hear it, gets in tge way of hunting gathering and you subconsciously heard it and recognised it for what it was. The two strands of your own DNA singing tge song what made you.
    Are you high? I’ve not seen this much drivel since I last marked first year exams…
    I take it you’ve never taken these drugs that turn all the sensible filters off 🙄

    Never heard the two strands of DNA singing the song what made you. And not be able to tell a self transforming machine elf from hyperspace from a gurangular subspace lizard/worm.
    As I said, drivel.
    https://www.quora.com/Has-anyone-aside-from-Terence-McKenna-encountered-self-transforming-machine-elves-during-a-DMT-trip-and-if-so-how-would-you-describe-that-experience

    “I encountered one once, several years ago, while under the influence of Ayahuasca. It was the first time I felt my consciousness completely leave my body—I literally had no feeling whatsoever. My mind ended up in this space that was nothing but blackness. There was no concept of space or time. This creature popped into the space, out of nowhere. It looked like a mixture between an elf and a tree frog. It was green with big black eyes. It seemed very curious about and how I got there, and it realized I was just as curious about it. Its personality was very playful. It started creating neon blocks in the darkness as I watched. It created a few of them and (without words) told me, “Now you try.” I created some neon blocks and the elf seemed happy to have someone to play with. It began stretching the blocks horizontally into rectangles, extending them in my direction. I started stretching them too. I asked, “Can you change the colors?” We began changing the colors together. I then asked, “Do they have to be shapes?” Then the rectangles and blocks began to stretch upwards into an archway. Together we created a cathedral-like structure and the elf climbed onto a pillar and disappeared. As the elf disappeared, I came back to reality. A friend of mine explained that I had been motionless for 2 hours and the shaman had even stopped by to check if I was still breathing. I have had several more out of body experiences since this one, but never encountered another machine elf.”

    That they exist is undeniable, cause so many have met them whilst flat out on a trip. Question is, where are they?
    Drugs are not needed for such experiences.

    Encountering entities while in an altered state that you know have their own consciousness, and which notice you but may or may not be particularly friendly, is a hallmark of an astral dream.

    Not all dreams are astral.

    Nobody has yet figured out "where" these entities are. Perhaps because that is the wrong question.

    Nice account by McKenna though.
    There are three or four top neuroscientists in the world investigating this exact phenomenon: the strangely shared hallucinations induced by ayahuasca - and especially its famous constituent alkaloid DMT

    One of them was with me when I did ayahuasca in the jungle two weeks back

    This is a matter of genuine scientific discovery. Indeed the whole field of psychedelics has exploded in recent years. What do they do, and why?
    The last time scientists worked with psychedelics they came up with the MK Ultra progam, sorry if scientists are doing discovery doesn't inspire me with hope
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,853
    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Foxy said:

    maxh said:

    Leon said:

    Having taken ayahuasca twice (and for other reasons) I am utterly convinced there is a much much deeper layer of reality; where consciousness entwines with the universe in some kind of divinely glittering double helix. A descending baroque staircase of beauty and meaning, made of the diamonds of time

    Do I “know” this? Not in any scientific way. Do I believe this? No, it is more than “belief”

    So what is the word? There isn’t one. But I have seen this and it is the case

    It’s the same argument I had with my philosophy tutor at university. He was also the college chaplain and we were arguing about whether there are any good arguments for the existence of god.

    He eventually relented that my agnosticism was rationally correct, but trumped it by saying ‘but I have had a direct revelation in which I talked to God.’

    Do I believe he has talked to God? No. Otherwise I’d share his faith. But do I believe he believes wholeheartedly that he has spoken directly to his god? Yes.

    The much more interesting question in my mind is whether we can trust our own certainties, be that under the influence of ayahuasca or having perceived a direct conversation with a god.

    I’m minded not to trust my own certainties, but I would probably feel differently had I taken ayahuasca or had a religious revelation.
    Religious revelation is an extraordinarily powerful phenomenon. The whole world changes.

    God doesn't need intoxicants to be perceived though, it is our own minds that put up the barriers to revelation, so it does take a bit of discipline and exercise to overcome these.
    I accept the intoxication is more extreme in the case of ayahuasca, but what is collective worship if not a form of mental intoxication?

    I get the same dancing to techno music - with or without mdma it has at times been an almost religious experience.
    Music, movement and collective action are common to many mystical experiences, but it isn't just about enjoying it while it lasts, it is about a transformation where nothing is the same again.
    But do most religious people experience it? Is it a requirement for salvation? Can one grow faith gently and slowly, without a transformative moment or threshold crossed?
This discussion has been closed.