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Why Hunt’s cuts to national insurance might not boost the Tories – politicalbetting.com

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  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    I never realised it was so important to people to know who is liking their posts. It's made me view the site a bit differently!

    I like it because I don’t post much. I don’t look the likes up often but if a post has a novel viewpoint and one I find I am sympathetic to, I might see if it is being liked by posters I feel to be thoughtful.
    I like that... but you can't tell it was me.

    Might have to resort to '+1'
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    I never realised it was so important to people to know who is liking their posts. It's made me view the site a bit differently!

    It shows how the like button can be corrosive.

    It essentially turns into social approval rather than argument recognition.
    Heheh. Right-wingers prefer to skulk behind the curtain?
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708

    I never realised it was so important to people to know who is liking their posts. It's made me view the site a bit differently!

    I like it because I don’t post much. I don’t look the likes up often but if a post has a novel viewpoint and one I find I am sympathetic to, I might see if it is being liked by posters I feel to be thoughtful.
    I like that... but you can't tell it was me.

    Might have to resort to '+1'
    We'll soon see inflation in that metric

  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    Biden recovering to his pre-Hur attack price for Dem nominee.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.

    If the Tories had gone with that years ago, they'd probably be winning the next election too.

    Now it's too little, too late, but is good groundwork for this government to be looked at in a better light in hindsight.

    Hunt is doing the right thing for posterity.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    I know I shouldn't laugh but this is hilarious:

    A woman who was hoisted into the air by shop shutters has joked she will have to "handle the fame" after CCTV of the incident went viral.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68480196
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    Just proved your point, by liking your last post.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Most Chancellors keep something back as a show stopper but the 2p NI reduction has been so leaked what is it ?

    And it will not be a May GE, Sunak announces that and most everyone in the media is calling it for the Autumn with labour supportes the ones promoting May, so they can say Sunak is running scared ( which he may well be)

    Labour are such favourites for the next government it will be interesting to see just how confidence rises over the summer, which of course Sunak will claim for his party

    I am old enough to remember when leaking the budget was a resigning matter.
    When did any chancellor resign after leaking budgets as it has gone on for decades
    Hugh Dalton in Attlee's Government.

    It was a sensible rule.
    Talking of things that probably ought to be a resigning matter but aren't...

    Is this the first time a sitting minister has had to pay damages like this?

    https://twitter.com/Samfr/status/1765065146031063246
    That's a pretty shocking story. Donelan accused two people of being Hamas supporters, based on a dodgy press release from Policy Exchange. She immediately went public with it (via tweet) without bothering to check out either the facts, or asking the people concerned. Of course, it was nonsense.
    She should resign as a Minister.
    She did her research. She googled. It's on the internet so it must be true.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On a slight pre-Budget tangent, I was talking to the man from whom I buy the Racing Post up at the tube station (he gets a lot of people putting money on their Oyster cards even though there are machines in the station).

    He accepts both cards and cash but his biggest gripe is card companies who charge between 5% and 35% on transactions (like many he no longer accepts AMEX because of the high commission). Why not take cash? I asked - it seems the banks now put 15% commission on cash transactions.

    No wonder small businesses are struggling - it's time the Government went after the banks and card companies and told them to stop gougoing their customers - 5% should be the maximum commission on every transaction and banks should only charge 5% for cash transactions. I believe such measures could help businesses more than tax or NI reductions.

    Advise him to shop around. Can be done much cheaper already.
    Okay - you're going to have to help me out here. The way it was explained to me each card company had its own commission rate on each transaction so you had Mastercard and Visa and all the other cards all charging their own commission and he doesn't know what card you have until you produce it.

    What does this iZettle for example do? Perhaps it's the card payment system he uses which is the issue. I didn't realise each card reader determined the commission rate on a card transaction.

    That doesn't explain the cash handling charge from the bank.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930

    AlsoLei said:

    No doubt that booze is up there with the most damaging drugs, vastly worse than ecstasy, mushrooms and - very probably - aychusca (sp?)

    Can you have a delicious small portion of ecstasy with a meal and feel a light buzz and have a nice conversation?
    Yes.
    ...although the "delicious" criterion is going to be a bit of a problem!
    Ha yes, agreed there. Although I imagine it's not the alcohol itself that is delicious in an alcoholic drink. Is 100% ethanol tasty?
    It’s delicious! Hic! Penny for a cup of tea, guv!
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    I hereby confirm that I have liked this post 👍
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.

    Employees NI could surely be abolished if ICT was raised to, say, 25%. That would see an effective reduction for working taxpayers from 32% (in 2022) to 25%.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    NYT blog - Kari Lake, the former TV anchor and close Trump ally, praised Kyrsten Sinema for being more moderate than Ruben Gallego, who she will face in the fall if she wins her primary. “We may not agree on everything, but I know she shares my love for Arizona,” Lake said in a statement. “Senator Sinema had the courage to stand tall against the Far-Left in defense of the filibuster — despite the overwhelming pressure from the radicals in her party like Ruben Gallego who called on her to burn it all down.”

    SSI - note that "defense of the filibuster" only rarely cited as a POSITIVE campaign issue.

    Outside of Strom Thurmond's South Carolina a half-century ago, that is.

  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,930
    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
  • No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,513
    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On a slight pre-Budget tangent, I was talking to the man from whom I buy the Racing Post up at the tube station (he gets a lot of people putting money on their Oyster cards even though there are machines in the station).

    He accepts both cards and cash but his biggest gripe is card companies who charge between 5% and 35% on transactions (like many he no longer accepts AMEX because of the high commission). Why not take cash? I asked - it seems the banks now put 15% commission on cash transactions.

    No wonder small businesses are struggling - it's time the Government went after the banks and card companies and told them to stop gougoing their customers - 5% should be the maximum commission on every transaction and banks should only charge 5% for cash transactions. I believe such measures could help businesses more than tax or NI reductions.

    Advise him to shop around. Can be done much cheaper already.
    Okay - you're going to have to help me out here. The way it was explained to me each card company had its own commission rate on each transaction so you had Mastercard and Visa and all the other cards all charging their own commission and he doesn't know what card you have until you produce it.

    What does this iZettle for example do? Perhaps it's the card payment system he uses which is the issue. I didn't realise each card reader determined the commission rate on a card transaction.

    That doesn't explain the cash handling charge from the bank.
    https://www.tide.co/pricing/

    Tide have cash deposits as min £2.50 down to 0.5% over £500 just as one example.

    At a guess he is using a legacy high street bank that will be completely gouging "loyal" customers. And perhaps his numbers are from several years ago too even for them.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,603
    France slashes Olympics opening ceremony crowd size amid terror attack fears

    https://www.politico.eu/article/france-slash-olympics-opening-ceremony-crowd-size-terror-attack-fear-emmanuel-macron/
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    I hereby confirm that I have liked this post 👍
    And yours truly confirms that I have liked YOUR post.

    Thus further underscoring David L's argument.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    The Tories will still be on 20pc or less. Denying pensioners benefit by using NI is going to fuck me right off. It's tough enough as it is on a fixed income and just today heard that Sky want a 10pc increase. .. it never ends.
    I won't vote Labour so what do i do apart from abstain?
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,814
    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Can't read it but the DM seems to be jumping up and down and screaming much the same message.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mailplus/article-13160129/How-Chancellors-stealth-tax-raid-cost-family-no-matter-Jeremy-Hunt-says-tomorrow.html?ico=mol_desktop_home
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    Possibly, but its a hell of an easier sell than a technical recession. Right now Labour are correctly pointing out the economy is smaller than it was when Sunak was appointed PM. After Q1 that will probably no longer be true.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708

    The Tories will still be on 20pc or less. Denying pensioners benefit by using NI is going to fuck me right off. It's tough enough as it is on a fixed income and just today heard that Sky want a 10pc increase. .. it never ends.
    I won't vote Labour so what do i do apart from abstain?

    You could always have a bit of fun and doodle appropriately on the voting slip

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.

    If the Tories had gone with that years ago, they'd probably be winning the next election too.

    Now it's too little, too late, but is good groundwork for this government to be looked at in a better light in hindsight.

    Hunt is doing the right thing for posterity.
    Two things at work here:
    1. Is it right to shift taxes away from working earners. Yes, absolutely.
    2. Is it the right time to cut the overall government tax take. No. Debt is too high. Debt servicing is too high. Public services have been cut to the bone.

    When people ask why is public spending at a post-war high while public services are failing, I give you:
    1. Triple-bloody-lock
    2. Demographics and social care costs
    3. The rising cost of disability benefits for mental health issues, due (the costs) in no small part to the shocking provision of cash-starved mental health services.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    edited March 5

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    We could simplify all the discussions and save enormous amounts of our time by making all posts either +1 or -1 and just add up the total at the end of the day.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    Just proved your point, by liking your last post.
    And I have responded in kind. But, in all honesty, I really enjoy your observations on US politics, even when I might disagree with them.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354

    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.

    The Liz Truss effect.

    I'm one of her greatest detractors - what a monumental self-inflicted disaster she created - but she's also achieved one of the biggest and fastest turnarounds in British tax policy for many decades.

    If she'd only not created panic by sidelining the OBR, and stated a commitment to keeping borrowing under control - instead of giving the impression she was less worried about the deficit than Jeremy Corbyn - then she might have had an enormous impact on Britain.

    It's a real sliding doors moment for the country, and unfortunately she's learned entirely the wrong lessons from her failure. Deciding to believe in a conspiracy, rather than being honest about where she went wrong, demonstrates a weakness of character. Though she's not alone in that.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    DavidL said:

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    Just proved your point, by liking your last post.
    And I have responded in kind. But, in all honesty, I really enjoy your observations on US politics, even when I might disagree with them.
    Same back at ya, bro! And not just re: USA.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Can't read it but the DM seems to be jumping up and down and screaming much the same message.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mailplus/article-13160129/How-Chancellors-stealth-tax-raid-cost-family-no-matter-Jeremy-Hunt-says-tomorrow.html?ico=mol_desktop_home
    Even the Daily Mail is right sometimes. The reality is that our public services are falling apart. Some of this is a result of the appalling drops in productivity and the WFH revolution but some, in fairness, is probably a consequence of the jam being spread too thin for too long. The government, of whatever stripe, needs more money and it can only come from us.
  • londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,639
    Maybe Hunt will introduce NI on 'likes'? 😈
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    I never realised it was so important to people to know who is liking their posts. It's made me view the site a bit differently!

    It shows how the like button can be corrosive.

    It essentially turns into social approval rather than argument recognition.
    Heheh. Right-wingers prefer to skulk behind the curtain?
    No, but it means social approval becomes a factor in what one says or doesn't say. And people will calibrate their contributions accordingly.

    That will be set by who's posting on the site and how voluble/prominent they are, so it will affect what, when and how people choose to post.

    We are all social animals at heart.
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    It's astonishing to think that less than 2.5 years ago we were staring down the barrel of an effective NI rate of 13.25%, with the HSC levy added on, with scope for that to increase further. Now, NI is down at 8% - a huge spread of over 5% in tax.

    I suspect it isn't sustainable - demographics will see to that - but it's a sign of the direction the Tories could have gone in for working people many years ago.

    The Liz Truss effect.

    I'm one of her greatest detractors - what a monumental self-inflicted disaster she created - but she's also achieved one of the biggest and fastest turnarounds in British tax policy for many decades.

    If she'd only not created panic by sidelining the OBR, and stated a commitment to keeping borrowing under control - instead of giving the impression she was less worried about the deficit than Jeremy Corbyn - then she might have had an enormous impact on Britain.

    It's a real sliding doors moment for the country, and unfortunately she's learned entirely the wrong lessons from her failure. Deciding to believe in a conspiracy, rather than being honest about where she went wrong, demonstrates a weakness of character. Though she's not alone in that.
    Excellent post. A lot of truth and wisdom in it.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,621
    Well.


  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 51,814
    Taz said:

    "I have my popcorn ready!" - Wes Streeting on the Budget debate:

    John Rentoul
    @JohnRentoul

    Wes Streeting, shadow health sec, to @AndrewMarr9 on @LBC

    https://twitter.com/JohnRentoul/status/1765093186915983684

    Popcorn ready for election night when he loses his seat due to labours pro Israel stance on Gaza 😀
    Nah, he'll be fine!
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    This is what we did a few years back, but it was on far fewer posts and more developed arguments.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,354
    edited March 5
    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    But then that's effectively a rebalancing of tax away from NI back to income tax, which is a reversal of the consensus that had prevailed for many decades, and which has seen PAYE employees taxed more heavily than pensioners, asset-owners, etc.

    The question of the overall level of tax is separate to this rebalancing
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    Appears that Kyrsten Sinema is eager to compete with Kari Lake.

    NOT on the general election ballot for US Senator from Arizona.

    Rather, for Drama Queen of the Great Southwest.
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,871

    stodge said:

    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    On a slight pre-Budget tangent, I was talking to the man from whom I buy the Racing Post up at the tube station (he gets a lot of people putting money on their Oyster cards even though there are machines in the station).

    He accepts both cards and cash but his biggest gripe is card companies who charge between 5% and 35% on transactions (like many he no longer accepts AMEX because of the high commission). Why not take cash? I asked - it seems the banks now put 15% commission on cash transactions.

    No wonder small businesses are struggling - it's time the Government went after the banks and card companies and told them to stop gougoing their customers - 5% should be the maximum commission on every transaction and banks should only charge 5% for cash transactions. I believe such measures could help businesses more than tax or NI reductions.

    Advise him to shop around. Can be done much cheaper already.
    Okay - you're going to have to help me out here. The way it was explained to me each card company had its own commission rate on each transaction so you had Mastercard and Visa and all the other cards all charging their own commission and he doesn't know what card you have until you produce it.

    What does this iZettle for example do? Perhaps it's the card payment system he uses which is the issue. I didn't realise each card reader determined the commission rate on a card transaction.

    That doesn't explain the cash handling charge from the bank.
    https://www.tide.co/pricing/

    Tide have cash deposits as min £2.50 down to 0.5% over £500 just as one example.

    At a guess he is using a legacy high street bank that will be completely gouging "loyal" customers. And perhaps his numbers are from several years ago too even for them.
    I suspect many local businesses use their legacy bank and have neither the time nor the resources to investigate other options. This is an area where Government could actively help small businesses reduce their outgoings rather than giving so much to banks and card companies.

  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    This is what we did a few years back, but it was on far fewer posts and more developed arguments.
    "This"
    That is what we did a few years back
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
  • BartholomewRobertsBartholomewRoberts Posts: 21,968
    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Except I'm fine with that if it rebalances the budget towards taxing everyone equitably.

    Getting everyone paying the same rate of tax and if its too high it can be cut, evenly, for everyone, across the board.

    The problem today is we have workers paying extortionate rates of tax, while others pay next to nothing. Fix that and even if the overall burden goes up, its right to fix that.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,214
    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Can't read it but the DM seems to be jumping up and down and screaming much the same message.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mailplus/article-13160129/How-Chancellors-stealth-tax-raid-cost-family-no-matter-Jeremy-Hunt-says-tomorrow.html?ico=mol_desktop_home
    And that's why the Conservatives are so utterly rubber ducked.

    Most actions by a government, most actions by anyone, are open to interpretation. If you have enough trust, almost anything can be explained.

    Once you have forfeited that trust, people probe everything you say forensically. And we're all so used to this iteration of the Conservatives pulling the wool over our eyes that we break out in an allergic reaction before they have even done so.

    Thanks, Boris. Thanks, Liz. Thanks, Rishi.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    We could simplify all the discussions and save enormous amounts of our time by making all posts either +1 or -1 and just add up the total at the end of the day.
    +1
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,407
    .
    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    This is what we did a few years back, but it was on far fewer posts and more developed arguments.
    "This"
    That is what we did a few years back
    We were also far more diligent in our pedantry too.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799

    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Except I'm fine with that if it rebalances the budget towards taxing everyone equitably.

    Getting everyone paying the same rate of tax and if its too high it can be cut, evenly, for everyone, across the board.

    The problem today is we have workers paying extortionate rates of tax, while others pay next to nothing. Fix that and even if the overall burden goes up, its right to fix that.
    Oh I agree. The disparity of tax on earned income and investment income or pensions is egregious and should be rectified. I fully approved of Hunt's step in that direction and hope he takes another. It is trying to present this as a tax cutting budget that, in the words of the great Sher Khan, is "trying my patience." Its simply not true for those working for a living or anyone else.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    If they don't believe better economic news will actually help them politically (and frankly I think that is correct) then they would do better to go sooner rather than later, as plenty of other headaches remain, and the internal divisions seem to be getting worse.

    But it is understandable if they hold out hope better news will help - politicians are bigger optimists than we give credit for.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    .

    geoffw said:

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    This is what we did a few years back, but it was on far fewer posts and more developed arguments.
    "This"
    That is what we did a few years back
    We were also far more diligent in our pedantry too.
    One of the words "also" and "too" is redundant. 😃
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    Starmer and Reeves are lucky Generals indeed...
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    We could simplify all the discussions and save enormous amounts of our time by making all posts either +1 or -1 and just add up the total at the end of the day.
    That would disrupt my attempt to give a 0 view.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 22,812
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    We could simplify all the discussions and save enormous amounts of our time by making all posts either +1 or -1 and just add up the total at the end of the day.
    That would disrupt my attempt to give a 0 view.
    You just do a +1 followed by a swift -1 to restore balance to the debate.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653

    I never realised it was so important to people to know who is liking their posts. It's made me view the site a bit differently!

    It shows how the like button can be corrosive.

    It essentially turns into social approval rather than argument recognition.
    Heheh. Right-wingers prefer to skulk behind the curtain?
    No, but it means social approval becomes a factor in what one says or doesn't say. And people will calibrate their contributions accordingly.

    That will be set by who's posting on the site and how voluble/prominent they are, so it will affect what, when and how people choose to post.

    We are all social animals at heart.
    Fair enough. I can't say I ever worry about social approval in what I post or which posts I like; I do it because I think I have a valid point to make or the poster in question has made a good point. I like (sorry) to know who is agreeing with what.

    It always feels to me that the site is pretty evenly split between left and right, which is a major reason why I enjoy it, so any 'social pressure' is surely balanced.
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @steverichards14

    Cinematic juxtaposition over next 24 hours- on one side deep cuts announced by bankrupt councils , voters waiting months for hospital appointments, unsure whether a train will arrive or police will attempt to solve some crimes..meanwhile J Hunt planning big tax cuts tomorrow.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071
    edited March 5
    Scott_xP said:

    @steverichards14

    Cinematic juxtaposition over next 24 hours- on one side deep cuts announced by bankrupt councils , voters waiting months for hospital appointments, unsure whether a train will arrive or police will attempt to solve some crimes..meanwhile J Hunt planning big tax cuts tomorrow.

    For what it's worth I am not at all unsure about the police attempting to solve some crimes, I'm very sure they won't.

    Which given all the criminals in their ranks might be a good thing.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    CBC - Conservative Jamil Jivani wins federal byelection in Ontario riding of Durham
    Durham has been held by the Tories since 2004

    Conservative candidate Jamil Jivani handily won the federal byelection in Durham on Monday, with preliminary results from Elections Canada showing he secured more than 57 per cent of the vote share.

    "We set out to send Justin Trudeau a message and I think we were successful," Jivani told supporters at a restaurant in Clarington, Ont., after results came in.

    The win means Jivani, a lawyer and commentator, will take over the Greater Toronto Area seat once held by former Tory leader Erin O'Toole. . . .

    Jivani managed to increase the Conservative vote share in the riding relative to the 2021 federal election. In that contest, 46.4 per cent of total votes went to O'Toole, while the Liberal runner-up secured 29.9 per cent of votes.

    With 100 per cent of polls reporting, preliminary results suggest that 18,610 voters cast their ballot for Jivani. Liberal candidate and runner-up Robert Rock got 7,285 votes, about 22.5 per cent of the vote share.

    Jivani managed to increase the Conservative vote share in the riding relative to the 2021 federal election. In that contest, 46.4 per cent of total votes went to O'Toole, while the Liberal runner-up secured 29.9 per cent of votes.

    Durham, a riding with a mix of suburban and rural areas, has been a Tory stronghold for two decades.

    Meanwhile, turnout in Monday's byelection was low. Only about 27.9 per cent of Durham's 116,259 eligible voters cast a ballot, preliminary results from Elections Canada show. . . .

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,071

    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
    I think that's Trump's line about stronger growth in the US.
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,723
    edited March 5
    The Tories
    Foxy said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    Starmer and Reeves are lucky Generals indeed...
    As long as they neutralise the ghastly Rayner.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,621
    edited March 5

    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
    Yes, I'm looking forward to the abolition of boom and bust, again.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,653
    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
    I think that's Trump's line about stronger growth in the US.
    Thanks, that's spoiled it for me.

    Which reminds me has anyone listened to Anthony Saramucci eviscerating Trump on the Campbell and Stewart podcast Leading?

    He's brilliant.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,366
    ohnotnow said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Can't read it but the DM seems to be jumping up and down and screaming much the same message.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mailplus/article-13160129/How-Chancellors-stealth-tax-raid-cost-family-no-matter-Jeremy-Hunt-says-tomorrow.html?ico=mol_desktop_home
    Even the Daily Mail is right sometimes. The reality is that our public services are falling apart. Some of this is a result of the appalling drops in productivity and the WFH revolution but some, in fairness, is probably a consequence of the jam being spread too thin for too long. The government, of whatever stripe, needs more money and it can only come from us.
    As someone who has worked for themselves, in the private sector for many years, and then public sector - I think WFH has very little to do with it.

    For years the public sector has been running on fumes and the good will of staff. Then covid hit and it was 'all hands on deck!'. Which was then rewarded with...

    Nothing. Or maybe if you were lucky a below inflation 'pay rise'.

    Combined with endless new demands on time. Reports on X, tracking Y, reorganisations of Z, new management structures, regional mergers, on and on. And zero investment to make it work.

    As a tiny personal example - I've been waiting almost six months for a new keyboard as the old one I had died and the replacement I found in a cupboard keeps dropping keystrks. So every week I lose time (hours possibly?) to just correcting typo's due to faulty equipment.

    The number of people I've spoken to recently who were previously dedicated "get sh*t done, let's make this better!" types who have just tuned out to 'turn up at 9, reply to some emails, clock off at 5' is getting quite depressing.
    And remember a lot of the NI cut is coming because there are £1.8bn of Civil Service productivity improvements coming - but no money or work being done to create / facilitate those productivity improvements so it's going to be staff cuts and fewer people trying to do the same amount of work...
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    More from CBC - State funeral for Brian Mulroney to be held March 23
    Former prime minister will lie in state in Ottawa, lie in respose [sic] in Montreal

    SSI - Sadly (or not) the former Canadian Prime Minister NEVER lived down his nickname, "Lyin' Brian".

    Especially after admitting he trousered (as the Irish would say) thousands and thousands from a dodgy arms dealer (is their any other kind?).

    Although Mulroney said the money he grifted was WAY less than the arms dealer (who ended up in prison) alleged.

    Now who would YOU believe?

    Well remember when, back in early 1990s, was visiting Vancouver BC and asked a couple of guys working at a convenience store, what they thought about then-PM Mulroney?

    NOT much, to put it mildly. "Lyin' Brian" summed it up nicely.
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    eek said:

    ohnotnow said:

    DavidL said:

    Carnyx said:

    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    Can't read it but the DM seems to be jumping up and down and screaming much the same message.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/mailplus/article-13160129/How-Chancellors-stealth-tax-raid-cost-family-no-matter-Jeremy-Hunt-says-tomorrow.html?ico=mol_desktop_home
    Even the Daily Mail is right sometimes. The reality is that our public services are falling apart. Some of this is a result of the appalling drops in productivity and the WFH revolution but some, in fairness, is probably a consequence of the jam being spread too thin for too long. The government, of whatever stripe, needs more money and it can only come from us.
    As someone who has worked for themselves, in the private sector for many years, and then public sector - I think WFH has very little to do with it.

    For years the public sector has been running on fumes and the good will of staff. Then covid hit and it was 'all hands on deck!'. Which was then rewarded with...

    Nothing. Or maybe if you were lucky a below inflation 'pay rise'.

    Combined with endless new demands on time. Reports on X, tracking Y, reorganisations of Z, new management structures, regional mergers, on and on. And zero investment to make it work.

    As a tiny personal example - I've been waiting almost six months for a new keyboard as the old one I had died and the replacement I found in a cupboard keeps dropping keystrks. So every week I lose time (hours possibly?) to just correcting typo's due to faulty equipment.

    The number of people I've spoken to recently who were previously dedicated "get sh*t done, let's make this better!" types who have just tuned out to 'turn up at 9, reply to some emails, clock off at 5' is getting quite depressing.
    And remember a lot of the NI cut is coming because there are £1.8bn of Civil Service productivity improvements coming - but no money or work being done to create / facilitate those productivity improvements so it's going to be staff cuts and fewer people trying to do the same amount of work...
    I remember that quite a lot.

    Almost as often as I remember the 100s of hours I've put in on task automation and 'AI' work which was due to be presented 'imminently' ... last July. Before our latest reorganisation.

    Luckily before my keyboard failed - so not so many typo's...

    So there's that.
  • geoffwgeoffw Posts: 8,708
    Is it a lesson in modesty?
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799
    Talking of America and matters budgetary this is a really interesting and thorough piece of research on the effect of Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act 2017. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w32180/w32180.pdf

    The findings demonstrate the complexities of fiscal policies in a largely free trade world and I suspect that the international effects would be even more marked in the UK than it was in the much larger US economy but basically the benefits of the tax cuts largely accrued to corporations; those benefits did boost US investment somewhat but that was by about the effect of the tax cuts with no obvious multiplier effect. The belief that this increased corporate activity would make the tax cut self funding was completely false. Government debt rose sharply. And the benefits to the average tax payer, whilst there, was a small fraction of what was promised.

    What it also demonstrates to me, as an interested amateur rather than a professional economist, is that both Truss and Reeves seem in their different ways to fail to appreciate the narrow parameters within which a UK Chancellor dependent upon international markets for funding has to operate. Each thought that they could address a problem by a simple step or series of steps with no real thought of the broader implications that step may have. Each seems to think that they have the ability to make changes without giving reassurance on that broader picture.

    Those who think that a Starmer government will result in a materially different situation really should read this paper. It is a failure on the right, a failure of supply side economics (once again) but there are many broader lessons to be learned.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559
    kle4 said:

    DavidL said:

    What is rationale for making PB likes anonymous?

    Assuming there IS some rationale.

    It is no doubt an accident rather than an intention. Most likely a Wordpress widget not working correctly (or needing updating?)
    The slightly weird thing is that the off topic option has always been anonymous. But, like others, I am interested to see who likes my witterings. Quite often I get a pleasant surprise from someone who normally doesn't agree in their responses.
    +1, @DavidL.
    We could simplify all the discussions and save enormous amounts of our time by making all posts either +1 or -1 and just add up the total at the end of the day.
    That would disrupt my attempt to give a 0 view.
    -3.76
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,621

    NEW THREAD

  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799
    Scott_xP said:

    @steverichards14

    Cinematic juxtaposition over next 24 hours- on one side deep cuts announced by bankrupt councils , voters waiting months for hospital appointments, unsure whether a train will arrive or police will attempt to solve some crimes..meanwhile J Hunt planning big tax cuts tomorrow.

    Steve Richards is a partisan prat but this does rather make the point of the thread header. Will tax cuts really help the Tories? Even when they are not tax cuts? When everything seems to be falling apart? I am not sure but what I will be watching very closely tomorrow is the overall tax burden and I am not expecting it to fall.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    On mental health services.
    Have a counselling assessment Thursday through workplace Occupational Health. Have been on the waiting list 5 months.
    Had to struggle to remember the incident which put me on the list in the first place.
  • SeaShantyIrish2SeaShantyIrish2 Posts: 17,559

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
    I think that's Trump's line about stronger growth in the US.
    Thanks, that's spoiled it for me.

    Which reminds me has anyone listened to Anthony Saramucci eviscerating Trump on the Campbell and Stewart podcast Leading?

    He's brilliant.
    Did Scaramouche (sp) happen to mention WHY he signed on with Trump (for 15 minutes or thereabouts) in the first place?

    Other than wanting to set himself up as a semi-celebrity and media-monger, that is?

    For me, he's in same ring as Chris Christie . . . except that he's a lightweight compared (even) to the Jersey Big Boy.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399

    More from CBC - State funeral for Brian Mulroney to be held March 23
    Former prime minister will lie in state in Ottawa, lie in respose [sic] in Montreal

    SSI - Sadly (or not) the former Canadian Prime Minister NEVER lived down his nickname, "Lyin' Brian".

    Especially after admitting he trousered (as the Irish would say) thousands and thousands from a dodgy arms dealer (is their any other kind?).

    Although Mulroney said the money he grifted was WAY less than the arms dealer (who ended up in prison) alleged.

    Now who would YOU believe?

    Well remember when, back in early 1990s, was visiting Vancouver BC and asked a couple of guys working at a convenience store, what they thought about then-PM Mulroney?

    NOT much, to put it mildly. "Lyin' Brian" summed it up nicely.

    Yep.
    Kim Campbell gets the flak for the Tories dismal election result.
    But it was Brian who set it up.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    DavidL said:

    Talking of America and matters budgetary this is a really interesting and thorough piece of research on the effect of Trump's Tax Cuts and Jobs Act 2017. https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w32180/w32180.pdf

    The findings demonstrate the complexities of fiscal policies in a largely free trade world and I suspect that the international effects would be even more marked in the UK than it was in the much larger US economy but basically the benefits of the tax cuts largely accrued to corporations; those benefits did boost US investment somewhat but that was by about the effect of the tax cuts with no obvious multiplier effect. The belief that this increased corporate activity would make the tax cut self funding was completely false. Government debt rose sharply. And the benefits to the average tax payer, whilst there, was a small fraction of what was promised.

    What it also demonstrates to me, as an interested amateur rather than a professional economist, is that both Truss and Reeves seem in their different ways to fail to appreciate the narrow parameters within which a UK Chancellor dependent upon international markets for funding has to operate. Each thought that they could address a problem by a simple step or series of steps with no real thought of the broader implications that step may have. Each seems to think that they have the ability to make changes without giving reassurance on that broader picture.

    Those who think that a Starmer government will result in a materially different situation really should read this paper. It is a failure on the right, a failure of supply side economics (once again) but there are many broader lessons to be learned.

    What I take from this (which is less than your rather impressive summary deserves) is that instead of just moving the existing levers, we need to develop new ones. And that assumptions about the role of government and how to pay for it needs to change.

    If you pour salt onto a table, it forms a little hill, then it slips, and forms a bigger hill, and so on. Punctuated equilibrium. Similarly here: a generation of politicians are trying old solutions, but sooner or later the voters will lose patience, things will change quickly, and a new equilibrium will form. Boris understood this. Nobody else does... ☹️
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,789
    DavidL said:

    Was Truss right all along?

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/liz-truss-vows-reverse-national-insurance-rise-immediately-b1017113.html

    Liz Truss vows to reverse National Insurance rise ‘immediately’

    Her leadership rival Mr Sunak has contrasted his "clear-eyed realism" with Ms Truss's "starry-eyed boosterism", arguing that her promised tax cuts would further fuel inflation.

    Yes.

    She was just ham fisted in the way she went about it sadly.
    No, you're just being conned. NI was cut but Hunt's last budget INCREASED the tax burden due to fiscal drag and the failure to uprate allowances in line with what was then pretty high inflation. Even now, with wages growing at something like 6% in nominal terms the tax burden is increasing. If Hunt gives us back another share of the NI it will, once again, fail to offset his other tax increases.
    The tax burden has increased overall but he has successfully pushed ca. £20bn per year of tax from working people to non-working people by using fiscal drag to pay for NI cuts. Long may it continue. I hope Labour will continue doing this until NI is entirely eliminated. It is a tax on income from working and there is no sane reason to disincentivise work in this manner.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    kle4 said:

    TimS said:

    .

    DavidL said:

    One of the multitude of reasons that I think that May is a non starter for an election is that the economy seems to be recovering rather well from its technical recession last year (which I expect to be revised away long after this government is burnt toast). Services continued to grow strongly in February with new orders particularly strong. A few months of that will paint a much better picture than the government could demonstrate right now. Technical recession or not, growth last year was truly abysmal.

    https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/newslondon/uk-economy-turned-a-corner-as-service-industry-continued-growth-in-february/ar-BB1jlSHN?ocid=msedgntp&pc=DCTS&cvid=40057517a8ee4e149b7af75fa4f0fac9&ei=19

    Why would the Tories want to give Labour a flying start? Why would they want to deny themselves a sliver of good news along with all the crud they have delivered?

    But is it just a "technical recovery?"
    My company thinks the economic situation is overblown and we will return to 1.8-1.9% GDP growth next year, and over 2% in London and the SE.

    This isn't enough but it's much better than what we've had recently.
    It feels that way. Activity is cautiously on the up across most of the economy.
    People anticipating a Labour government and the return to economic competence ;-)
    I think that's Trump's line about stronger growth in the US.
    Thanks, that's spoiled it for me.

    Which reminds me has anyone listened to Anthony Saramucci eviscerating Trump on the Campbell and Stewart podcast Leading?

    He's brilliant.
    Did Scaramouche (sp) happen to mention WHY he signed on with Trump...
    ...and will he do the fandango?

This discussion has been closed.