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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2013 locals so far: the John Curtice verdict

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    samsam Posts: 727
    TGOHF said:

    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
    I think this is an entirely correct thing for an Englishman to do... the interpreter has taken our side over the Taliban and woiuld be in mortal danger for his life were he to stay in Afghanistan. What more does someone have to do to deserve asylum? We should give him a cushy job somewhere as soon as he arrives

    Why brain drain the country ? These chaps could be jolly useful putting the country back on its feet - it's a big place - I'm sure they could move to another town where they aren't recognised.

    If it were down to me, he should be given the option to stay put if he likes but welcomed with open arms if he want to live here.


    He was a translator - not a secret agent who infiltrated Osama's cave. What next - taxi drivers, cooks and cleaners ?
    I havent looked into it too deeply, but it seems to me that anyone who helps us out in a war against their own country should be entitled to asylum. I dont mind if you disagree, each to their own.

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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    "Labour has made its first gain in Lancashire, winning Accrington North. Lab takes from Ind. Daughter beats father"
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Andrea

    I'm hearing of a Green gain (not unexpected) in Mark Senior country - Worthing.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    It would appear that UKIP have crossed the Rubicon.

    Nigel Farage, the Latter Day Caesar, with Cameron as Pompey.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    1113: With nine results through so far in Bristol, the Liberal Democrats have lost six seats. The Greens and Conservatives have taken two of them, and Labour and an independent candidate one each. The full results for the city council are expected by about 15:00 BST.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    But Tunbridge Wells is POSH.

    Indeed. Tunbridge Wells is very affluent, with strong connections to Europe, doing biz with Europe, even owning homes in Europe.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited May 2013

    Daughter beats father

    Now *that* was the count to be at today!
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    RichardNabaviRichardNabavi Posts: 3,413
    edited May 2013
    SeanT said:

    But Tunbridge Wells is POSH. And UKIP are meant to be the party of the villeins surfs and minor yeomen. Yet they are also reeling in the affluent middle classes?

    The Conservative councillors in Tunbridge Wells have been in rather a chaotic state for several years. There have been some big bust-ups and much controversy over development and over traffic schemes. Also, not all of Tunbridge Wells is elegant Decimus Burton houses - it's actually quite a mixture. There has been a substantial BNP vote in some wards in recent elections.

    http://kentcommunityactivist.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/tory-in-fighting-descends-into-farce-in.html

    http://www.kentnews.co.uk/news/tunbridge_wells_regeneration_company_cost_more_than_650_000_1_1741051

    http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/Tunbridge-Wells-Borough-Council-leader-vows-walk/story-18081087-detail/story.html#axzz2SDwCNkFs
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Poor old Clegg.
    Bristol City Council ‏@BristolCouncil 35m

    Exciting day of election results so far: Lab, Cons, Greens and Independent all taking seats formerly held by Lib Dems http://www.bristol.gov.uk/elections


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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    Are all the Norfolk UKIP results from Great Yarmouth, so far?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. D, thanks for explaining the change figures, which were very out of whack and were confusing me a shade.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    and it's Royal Tunbridge Wells.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    1116: Lib Dem Baroness Kramer says her party has had a "mixed bag". It is focusing on its "heartlands and strongholds" and has "areas of real strength", she adds

    No UKIP, Labour, Tory, Green or Independent tanks in Bristol...
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    Mr. D, thanks for explaining the change figures, which were very out of whack and were confusing me a shade.

    Yeah, I made the spreadsheet in 10 mins, so didn't have time to implement a more proper solution.. now I have no time to change it due to ongoing declarations!
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Lab gain Buckingham West
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Eagles, would that make Clegg King Juba?

    And who would Miliband be?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    Yes - well done.

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    edited May 2013

    Mr. Eagles, would that make Clegg King Juba?

    And who would Miliband be?

    Clegg = Quintus Caecilius Metellus Pius Scipio Nasica (No, not the Scipio that gave Hannibal such a damn good thrashing at Zama)

    Ed Miliband, could be Mark Antony, but David Miliband would probably say he's Brutus (but again, not that Brutus)


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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    @Sean_F

    Yes - its all Gt Yarmouth - what's interesting is that Kippers split the vote last time and IIRC the Tories lost control to Labour - now Kippers are just bypassing Labour and winning themselves.
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Lab gain Buckingham West

    That probably sounds more unexpected than it is.

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    timmotimmo Posts: 1,469
    JonC said:

    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections


    Tunbridge Wells??!

    Why the exclamation marks? Isn;t 50% of the electorate retired colonels? It was surely #1 nailed on UKIP gain

    Looks like UKIP could be heading to >100 gains (does it??) anyone on to win money on such a bet?
    I started putting that bet on 2 weeks ago with Shadsy at 5/2...averaged in at 9/4. 2/1 and 7/4... Hope we get there
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    Sean_F said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

    I really do think there may be at least something of a divide, with the A5 and the Pennines the vague boundary.

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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    SeanT said:

    I don't know how accurate it can be
    but UKIP is probably not taking many Labour 2010 voters....but they are taking former Lab voters who switched to Con in 2006-10 and are bypassing them now

    I think that is exactly right - and it has to worry Labour. They need those voters back, to get a majority.
    Probably not - as long as their 2010 support holds they should be able to squeak it with just lefty LDs moving to them and a couple of percent of Tories moving to UKIP.

    What should scare them is if it turns out that people who voted for Gordon Brown are now going for UKIP (or Con or anyone else) in any numbers.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    LDs lose another seat to Labour in Locklease.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    Sean_F said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

    I really do think there may be at least something of a divide, with the A5 and the Pennines the vague boundary.

    Your smugness is well justified.

    Do you think we're still on course for a hung parliament in 2015?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    ESxCC - UKIP win Seaford Sutton 1189, Con 927, LD 557 - their 2nd seat so far
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,352

    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 49s

    Ladbrokes latest odds on UKIP vote share at next election:

    0-5% 5/2
    5-10 2/1
    10-15 7/2
    15-20 5/1
    20-25 12/1
    25%+ 14/1

    15-20 5/1 looks great value.
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. D, it's an excellent creation, so no need to try and apologise.

    Mr. Eagles, the Metelli are less well-known than perhaps they ought to be. They dominated Roman politics, but did so in the interval between the Punic Wars and the Late Republic, which is less well-known than the periods before and after.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    In the end South Shields's UKIP performance will be almost forgotten with this kind of local results.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
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    Disappointment for UKIP in the East Midlands where they have yet to score in Derbyshire after the first 20 results have been declared - they were hoping for decent gains in this area.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    edited May 2013
    What I take from these results at the moment is that the country is still in a VERY anti-politics/anti establishment mood and seems to have drifted towards the Right since 2010.

    So;

    1. An "anti-establishment" mood means all the main parties are in trouble. Obviously the party full of Etonians is in the biggest trouble.

    2. The country is still in no mood to swing decisively towards one political party, which means another hung parliament looks certain in 2015.

    3. The biggest poser from these results is probably for Labour, because Ed Miliband appears to think he is a left wing version of Mrs Thatcher and that he will move the UK back to the kind of pure Socialism not seen since the 1970's. Yet, these results seem to imply he is setting himself against the prevailing political wind - Can't end well for him.

    4. Due to 1 and 3 if the Tories had a populist leadership that could connect with aspirational and working class voters while keeping the Shires on board 2015 would be VERY winnable, IMO. Alas they are stuck with Cameron and Osborne.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    tim said:

    Lib Dem Baroness Kramer says her party has had a "mixed bag".

    As in "I've just seen someone depositing a mixed bag packed with nails and homemade explosives in a litter bin"

    Unless they start getting some far better results Farron, Hughes, Vince and chums might just consider making some discreet phone calls to friendly journos making it known how different things could be under a different leader later on. More in sadness than anger of course.
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    AlastairMeeksAlastairMeeks Posts: 30,340

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    It was a very smart observation. It's also worth noting that if the Tories are to win a majority in 2015, the relevant marginals are preponderantly in the west.

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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    1126: UKIP leader Nigel Farage, currently an MEP for south-east England, tells BBC Radio Kent that he will stand at the next general election.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    Do we have a map showing this?
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977

    Sean_F said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

    I really do think there may be at least something of a divide, with the A5 and the Pennines the vague boundary.

    Your smugness is well justified.

    Do you think we're still on course for a hung parliament in 2015?

    There's nothing happening today that indicates otherwise. I guess the one thing that is unknown is UKIP drift back. If they are taking votes from Labour and Tory, which side is more likely to revert to the mothership in 2015, if at all?

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002

    Disappointment for UKIP in the East Midlands where they have yet to score in Derbyshire after the first 20 results have been declared - they were hoping for decent gains in this area.

    Must say I expected them to do slightly better here. The Lib Dems have even held 2 seats in the High Peak ! Problem is for UKIP is they are starting pretty much from zero here, also I didn't recieve a single leaflet other than Labour..
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    samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013

    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 49s

    Ladbrokes latest odds on UKIP vote share at next election:

    0-5% 5/2
    5-10 2/1
    10-15 7/2
    15-20 5/1
    20-25 12/1
    25%+ 14/1

    15-20 5/1 looks great value.
    @Neil, @JohnOHersham, @tim, hope you hedged as my generosity allowed you... Im only 2% away from having the value, having given away 23% to begin with

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Damian Lyons Lowe ‏@DamianSurvation 4m
    We projected yesterday that UKIP may gain up to 120 seats. Adding overnight result swing indicates potentially 200+ http://survation.com/2013/05/local-elections-2013-seat-projections-too-conservative/

    Wow....
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    It's high time Paddy Power paid out on South Shields winning bets, 10 hours after the result was declared.

    Why does it take so long when they pay out on a horse race in a couple of minutes?
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    tim said:

    Iain Dale ‏@IainDale
    RT @lukeakehurst: 11 seats declared so far in Norfolk, UKIP 6, Lab 4, Ind 1, Con 0. >> Sweet Jesus,Mother of Mary.

    Are they counting fingers or votes?

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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    Sean_F said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

    I really do think there may be at least something of a divide, with the A5 and the Pennines the vague boundary.

    Your smugness is well justified.

    Do you think we're still on course for a hung parliament in 2015?

    There's nothing happening today that indicates otherwise. I guess the one thing that is unknown is UKIP drift back. If they are taking votes from Labour and Tory, which side is more likely to revert to the mothership in 2015, if at all?

    From the YouGov polling for the Times today on UKIP switchers,

    "It means that UKIP’s surge is definitely hurting the Conservatives now but, by the same token, if it can be reversed by the time of the general election it could mean that much or all of Labour’s opinion poll lead could be washed away. UKIP’s voters — who tend to be older but only slightly more likely to be male than female — much prefer Mr Cameron to Ed Miliband."
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Don't often agree with Iain Martin - but he's right on the money here http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/iainmartin1/100215185/the-rise-of-ukip-is-very-very-funny/

    "What is even funnier is the confusion it is causing the leaders of the established political class. They are already emerging for a round of local election bingo, with the key phrases drawn from the standard issue manual used by all the major parties. "We hear what people are saying… people want to make a protest… they want us to get on with the job… people have very real concerns… it's mid-term… we'll be reflecting." But this time, when they mouth the words, they look as though they know their platitudes have been rumbled.

    The distress the voter rebellion causes the bigger parties does seem to be an important part of the appeal of Ukip. Voting for Farage is an entertaining way of giving the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems two fingers. Of course the longer-term implications are not necessarily funny. This is a country, not a comedy club. But large numbers of voters are so disenchanted that they see no possibility of an answer in the old parties. They are having a lot of fun trying to blow up the system."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    Damian Lyons Lowe ‏@DamianSurvation 4m
    We projected yesterday that UKIP may gain up to 120 seats. Adding overnight result swing indicates potentially 200+ http://survation.com/2013/05/local-elections-2013-seat-projections-too-conservative/

    Wow....

    Ukip should hang back - they might topple Cam for a propah right winger at this rate.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    VERY anti-politics/anti establishment mood

    I think the mood is much more unrealistic and wishful. Main stream politicians aren';t listening to or being honest with voters and so a pie in the sky party like UKIP gets loads of votes.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    @Sam

    What would the point of hedging a fun bet be? ;)
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Does someone want to volunteer to keep an eye on the shropshire results and periodically post the latest results (i.e. current party standings)? It does involve counting on a map, as there is no table.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,352

    Sean_F said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    The descendants of Cromwell's New Model Army.

    I really do think there may be at least something of a divide, with the A5 and the Pennines the vague boundary.

    Your smugness is well justified.

    Do you think we're still on course for a hung parliament in 2015?

    There's nothing happening today that indicates otherwise. I guess the one thing that is unknown is UKIP drift back. If they are taking votes from Labour and Tory, which side is more likely to revert to the mothership in 2015, if at all?

    It is remarkable how little impact the results have had so far on the betting markets.

    The value has been in the NOM price for a long time and should be even better now.

    You can lay Tory Overall Majority [5.3 Betfair] till the cows come home. Sorry, Blue fans, it just ain't gonna happen.

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Interesting.
    Tim Gatt ‏@TimGattITV 1m

    MT @itvnews: Report: #UKIP leader Nigel Farage to stand in next general election: http://itv.co/104Up99
    Where?
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    edited May 2013
    Green gain in Worcestershire but loss in Hertfordshire.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    Let's hope the upshot of UKIP winning 200 council seats is that the supremely silly and complacent Ken Clarke is finally put out of pasture.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    LDs hold Cotham in Bristol. Tories 4th below Lab and Greens.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    Are you sure it's not just a matter of who's already counted? You get these timezone issues a lot with the US races, and Norfolk and Lincolnshire must be a few hours ahead of GMT.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    GIN1138 said:

    Let's hope the upshot of UKIP winning 200 council seats is that the supremely silly and complacent Ken Clarke is finally put out of pasture.

    I'd prefer the vet was called.

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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Where?

    Witney? LOL
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    Norfolk latest - and I have run out of fingers:

    ATTLEBOROUGH: Alec Byrne (Conservative) HOLD
    BOWTHORPE: Mike Sands (Labour) GAIN from Conservative
    BREYDON: Alan Grey (UKIP) GAIN from Conservatives
    CLENCHWARTON & KING’S LYNN SOUTH: Alex Kemp (Labour) HOLD
    CROME: George Nobbs (Labour) HOLD
    DEREHAM NORTH: William Richmond (Conservative) HOLD
    DEREHAM SOUTH: Paul Gilmour (UKIP) GAIN from Conservatives
    EAST FLEGG: Jonathon Childs (UKIP) GAIN from Conservatives
    ELMHAM AND MATTISHALL: Bill Borrett (Conservative) HOLD
    GORLESTON ST ANDREWS: Matthew Smith (UKIP) GAIN from Conservatives
    GUILTCROSS: Stephen Askew (Conservative) HOLD
    KING’S LYNN NORTH & CENTRAL: David Collis (Lab) GAIN from Conservatives
    LOTHINGLAND: Colin Aldred (UKIP) GAIN from Conservatives
    MAGDALEN: Coleen Walker (Labour) HOLD
    MILE CROSS: Deborah Gihawi (Labour) GAIN from Greens
    NECTON AND LAUNDITCH: Mark Kiddle-Morris (Conservative) HOLD
    WENSUM: Elizabeth Morgan (Greens) HOLD
    WEST FLEGG: Michael Carttiss (Conservative) HOLD
    YARMOUTH NELSON & SOUTHTOWN: Rex Parkinson-Hare (UKIP) HOLD
    YARMOUTH NORTH & CENTRAL: Michael Castle (Labour) GAIN from Conservatives
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    SouthamObserverSouthamObserver Posts: 38,977
    I would never vote UKIP myself, but I have to say this is one of the most exciting days I can remember in British politics since 1997. UKIP voters must be on cloud nine - if they allow themslves such extravagances.

    My prediction is that all three main parties will say that they are listening and that all three will respond in the wrong way.

    It's a very interesting dilemma for Labour. UKIP may well be harming them, but even with UKIP as a pain free option for voters, the party is still picking up support. That may indicate a pretty solid core, or it may indicate the final fling of people giving the party the benefit of the doubt one last time (which was my voting stance yesterday). Either way, the prospects of a meaningful Labour majority in 2015 look very distant.

    All in all, absolutely fascinating. How on earth am I going to get any work done today?
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    I also get the feeling, now that UKIP have established themselves (in votes, if not seats) they're going to be as difficult to get rid off as herpes.
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    Sean_FSean_F Posts: 35,974
    Plato said:

    @Sean_F

    Yes - its all Gt Yarmouth - what's interesting is that Kippers split the vote last time and IIRC the Tories lost control to Labour - now Kippers are just bypassing Labour and winning themselves.

    And those Great Yarmouth seats are ones that Labour held in 2005.

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    "Glossop & Charlesworth" might be an interesting seat in Derbyshire, its one of those double vote seats. But interetingly UKIP only have 1 candidate as opposed to other parties that have 2. SO if there is vote splitting it may well benefit them. "George David Wharmby" (CON) looks to have a big majority from old boundaries though...
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I also get the feeling, now that UKIP have established themselves (in votes, if not seats) they're going to be as difficult to get rid off as herpes.

    More Tory smears!

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    GIN1138 said:

    Let's hope the upshot of UKIP winning 200 council seats is that the supremely silly and complacent Ken Clarke is finally put out of pasture.

    For saying something milder than Cammie did about the Kippers?

    Somewhat unlikely.

    Clarke is there to fool gullible Eurosceptics into thinking Cammie is more Eurosceptic than he actually is. The truth of course is that he and Clarke both favour staying IN Europe and that is the only dividing line that really matters now. Particularly to the kippers.

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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Carswell with a semi sane response.

    http://talkcarswell.com/home/if-ukip-are-the-insurgency-where-is-the-counter/2650

    "UKIP are, tweeted the Telegraph's Chris Deerin, "a rejection of a certain way of doing politics by a certain type of politics". So let's change it - and campaigning to quit the EU should only be part of it."
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    edited May 2013
    Peston on RBS and Darling's folly

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22394716

    "According to UKFI, which manages the government's stakes in the banks, the price actually paid by the Treasury for its 82% stake was 502p per share.

    However the valuation in the government's books is 407p per share - a fairly chunky difference.

    That lower "book" value captures a loss that the government has already absorbed on the investment: the loss is the difference between what the government paid for the shares and the market price of RBS on the days the then Chancellor, Alistair Darling, actually handed over the money for the shares."

    "Most investment purists would see the correct number as 502p.

    If the chancellor were to ape the often cynical behaviour of big companies when faced with similar accounting dilemmas, he would probably choose the lowest possible price - of 407p.

    So politics being what it is, I suspect he will claim success if he can get 440p.

    All of which may seem a bit academic right now, with RBS shares massively underwater, as they say, at 290p."

    "Or to put it another way, the notional loss for taxpayers today on their 82% stake in RBS is a maximum of £20bn and well over £10bn on any valuation."
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    UKIP are 11/10 to win the Euros next year with William Hill.
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    GIN1138 said:

    What I take from these results at the moment is that the country is still in a VERY anti-politics/anti establishment mood and seems to have drifted towards the Right since 2010.

    So;

    1. An "anti-establishment" mood means all the main parties are in trouble. Obviously the party full of Etonians is in the biggest trouble.

    2. The country is still in no mood to swing decisively towards one political party, which means another hung parliament looks certain in 2015.

    3. The biggest poser from these results is probably for Labour, because Ed Miliband appears to think he is a left wing version of Mrs Thatcher and that he will move the UK back to the kind of pure Socialism not seen since the 1970's. Yet, these results seem to imply he is setting himself against the prevailing political wind - Can't end well for him.

    4. Due to 1 and 3 if the Tories had a populist leadership that could connect with aspirational and working class voters while keeping the Shires on board 2015 would be VERY winnable, IMO. Alas they are stuck with Cameron and Osborne.

    There is one Old Etonian who might fit the bill.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Paul Francis @PaulOnPolitics
    Conservatives have 14 seats so far - lost 5 so far #kccelections
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    I also get the feeling, now that UKIP have established themselves (in votes, if not seats) they're going to be as difficult to get rid off as herpes.

    More Tory smears!

    It's a compliment.

    The act of catching herpes is fun. So I am told.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633

    UKIP are 11/10 to win the Euros next year with William Hill.

    Given it is not FTP- I'd say that is pretty generous.

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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Eagles, perhaps.

    UKIP will certainly be very strong at the euros.

    However, if vetting is poor and their victories today exceed all expectations then they could have some problem candidates.

    It also depends how the three major parties respond. Lip service will probably do more harm than good.
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    edmundintokyoedmundintokyo Posts: 17,151
    SeanT said:

    I am feeling rather smug about my UKIP East/West prediction yesterday. The Vikings just love UKIP!

    Are you sure it's not just a matter of who's already counted? You get these timezone issues a lot with the US races, and Norfolk and Lincolnshire must be a few hours ahead of GMT.
    No, Southam is right. There is something about eastern England - as I noted very late last night - which breeds insurgence. The Peasants Revolt, the Civil War, and Margaret Thatcher were all forged in eastern England - Essex, Lincs, etc.
    See your point. Boudica, too.
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    Peter_the_PunterPeter_the_Punter Posts: 13,352

    UKIP are 11/10 to win the Euros next year with William Hill.

    I know. Just had £50 of that, to add to the £100 at 2/1 I took last week.

    It will be odds on soon.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,291
    Labour Hold Hillfields in Bristol - huge drop in LD vote.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Goodmother M ‏@GoodmotherM 7m

    So Essex is still under Tory control but lost 18 seats (Lib Dems lost 3), this is a BIG shock for such a safe Tory region
    John Francis ‏@edgazette 6m

    Tring held by the Lib Dems, but next door in Wendover (Bucks not Herts) UKIP celebrating a win. Blimey.
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    Intersting result in Tunbridge Wells - Tories easily hold onto posh Tunbridge Wells South with 1,926. Ukip second with 1,109 but lose C2 D area Tunbridge Wells East 1386 UKIP 1005 Tory.
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    Richard_TyndallRichard_Tyndall Posts: 31,019
    Nottinghamshire so far 4 seats declared;

    2 to LD, 1 to labour and 1 to Independent. All holds.

    UKIP only stood in one of those seats and gained 17.4% of the vote.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Are UKIP surging because they are more likely to stop a few hundred thousand Bulgars and Romanians from coming here than the other parties?

    I can;t believe that. What worries me about this is that when some UKIP supporters talk about 'immigration' they are talking about people who are already here, and perfectly legitimately.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    I think Warwickshire just went NOC.
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:

    What worries me about this is that when some UKIP supporters talk about 'immigration' they are talking about people who are already here, and perfectly legitimately.

    What does it matter? UKIP can no more do anything about those of us immigrants who are already here legally than they can about Bulgarians and Romanians who might come next year.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Neil said:

    taffys said:

    What worries me about this is that when some UKIP sup0porters talk about 'immigration' they are talking about people who are already here, and perfectly legitimately.

    What does it matter? UKIP can no more do anything about those of us immigrants who are already here legally than they can about Bulgarians and Romanians who might come next year.
    Guess what - people are more racist than the media would have us believe...
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    UKIP are 11/10 to win the Euros next year with William Hill.

    I know. Just had £50 of that, to add to the £100 at 2/1 I took last week.

    It will be odds on soon.
    They are already odds on with Shadsy.

    I did back UKIP to win the Euros @ 3/1 in January.
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    NormNorm Posts: 1,251
    UKIP doing damage to the Tories in East Kent and Dover but Greens (!) take Hythe.
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    UKIP can no more do anything about those of us immigrants who are already here legally than they can about Bulgarians and Romanians who might come next year.

    If that's true then why vote for them?

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Another seat for Kippers in ESx - that's 3 now... Ouse Valley East - beat Tory by 300 votes. 31% of the total vote.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    edited May 2013
    Thank God for the UK electoral system and the benefits of FPTP.

    If the UK were Italy the kippers would actually have gained some power in these elections.

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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    A UKIP win in Folkestone for Westminster could be on the cards...
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    I also get the feeling, now that UKIP have established themselves (in votes, if not seats) they're going to be as difficult to get rid off as herpes.

    I'm assuming that that means you think they'll be here to stay, not personally being an expert in STDs. If so, I'm far from convinced that it's necessarily the case and depends very much on how things pan out.

    UKIP are performing spectacularly well not because of years of toil on the ground but because of a national swing based party on what the national party is, and to a greater extent, on what they're not. This is more akin to the Greens in 1989 rather than the slow but relentless rise of the Liberals or SNP. At the moment.

    The question is the extent to which UKIP can capitalise on their gains. How well will their councillors perform? They haven't nursed their seats to victory and will have to learn on the job how to do so if they want to keep them based on something other than the vicissitudes of national politics.

    For the time being - until 2015 at least - UKIP are a fixture. I can't see Labour winning most of the swing voters UKIP are currently attracting; why would they swing that way later if they're not doing so now? On the other hand, why would they return to the Lib Dems as a protest party while they're in government, or the Tories while they're only pursuing a very soft right agenda? Only the prospect of serious change post the general election might allow for that and one has to question what might prompt such a belief in a serious change.

    UKIP are picking up support because their voters are finding no home in the other parties. I am sure that were the other parties to offer them a home, they would return there as better options to deliver. The question is whether the other parties are capable of doing that.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Cambridgeshire CC ‏@CambsCC 4m

    UKIP win Littleport from the Conservatives #cccelection
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    hucks67hucks67 Posts: 758
    GIN1138 said:

    Let's hope the upshot of UKIP winning 200 council seats is that the supremely silly and complacent Ken Clarke is finally put out of pasture.

    The problem is that the main three UK parties think they have a right to dominate UK politics and receive all the attention. The FPTP system allows this to continue and is therefore the reason we need a version of PR or a brand new system. People argue that our current system means you have stronger governments and the financial markets like this, which is a fair point. But somehow we have to be able to reflect the votes cast for the other parties. If UKIP obtain 15% of the vote in 2015 and end up with one MP (Farage), then it is not a fair system. Perhaps if the number of MP's is reduced to say 500, we can have 300 who are elected to represent an area and the remaining 200 are allocated based on share of the vote. So if UKIP scored 15%, they would get 30 MP's, plus whatever seats they won. Rubbish idea, as you then have some MP's with consituencies and some without. But some form of top up to FPTP, to allow representation of other parties would be a good idea.
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    In vote share, LDs down more than Con.

    https://twitter.com/MSmithsonPB/status/330274279977529345

    Con -9, Lab +7, LD -11, UKIP +18
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    taffys said:


    If that's true then why vote for them?

    Beats me why anyone would vote for them ;)
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    samsam Posts: 727
    Neil said:

    @Sam

    What would the point of hedging a fun bet be? ;)


    True true. I should have backe 10-15% at 5s when we struck our bets but couldnt be arsed
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,010
    Mr. Dave, from those numbers it looks like UKIP have also squashed the Others vote share by 5 points.
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    AveryLPAveryLP Posts: 7,815
    Difficult to get the Kent CC website to load, but it looks as if after 41 of 43 sears declared, Tories have held Council with at least 28 seats.
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    MikeKMikeK Posts: 9,053
    We want our buttons. Vote UKIP in protest! :^)
This discussion has been closed.