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politicalbetting.com » Blog Archive » The 2013 locals so far: the John Curtice verdict

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Etherow in far North West Derbyshire (High Peak) in:

    Alan Debes Liberal Democrat 123
    Peter James Kay Conservative 610
    Dave Wilcox Labour 1393

    2009:

    Steve Foote (Conservative) 983 votes
    Rosa Kuppan (Liberal Democrats) 530 votes
    David John Wilcox (Labour) 1103 votes
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    samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013
    I think the best way for Ed Miliband to deal with any threat from UKIP would be to say that mass immigration has improved Britains education system, reduced crime and saved our economy.

    He should add that Nigel Farage is a 21st century Hitler who hates Europeans and will probably lead us into a long, drawn out war with the rest of the continent, starting with his German wife and kids.

    He should conclude with the news that an opinion poll has shown the public to be very pleased with the increase in chocolate since the chocolate rations were reduced.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013
    Pulpstar said:

    BenM said:

    There are some good results in here for Labour, particularly zeroed in on targets they need in the South.

    Big, big worries for the Tories, who have lost ground in the North and probably the Midlands too.

    UKIP will be an irrelevance by the next election, but if they're not, then they're a Tory problem.

    UKIP will have more councillors now who as Mike reminds us are the 'footsoldiers' of local electoral organisation. That increases their chances of a Westminster MP or two. I hope ;)
    It does.
    Whatever the amusing hysteria and spin right now the facts are that councils and councillors matter for a party base and activists to build on. Most crucially to either gain or defend MPs by mobilising the increased membership that the higher profile and increased participation such local wins afford. They also play no small part in future locals and the likes of the EU election.

    Winning or losing a great many of them is the meat of what has occurred and has the most tangible and lasting significance.

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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    FIrst seat in East Sussex declared this morning has gone to UKIP - Pevensey & Westham.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    rcs1000 said:

    Financier said:


    @rcs1000

    London, like many capital cities is atypical of the rest of the country. Certainly at present it is a focus for many globally-minded business people (two of which are my sons) who are ambitious and prepared to go where the opportunities are. It is true that they can be driven away by over-high and seemingly unfairly targeted taxation. Also over-regulation that is both business and personal is a deterrent to stay in the UK.

    However, to a large degree they are insulated from the many of the concerns of the C2DEers who are currently supporting UKIP.

    Talking with these global business-people, I find that few are either Labour or LibDem supporters but do tend to UKIP or anyone who will allow them to progress without undue interference to both their personal and business lives.

    @Financier: these people are *old* UKIP voters. As I said down-thread, they liked anti-regulation, vaguely libertarian, pro-globalisation UKIP.

    I'm not so sure they're keen on pro-regulation, pull-the-drawbridge-up, anti-globalisation, anti-gay-marriage, Europe.
    What are the pro-regulation, anti-globalisation policies you're talking about?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What's the lowest a HMG party has polled in a by-election? Have the LDs managed with their 1.4%?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724

    Roger said:

    OT. Anyone seen any parakeets flying wild? I've just seen a squadron!

    They now dominate acres of Richmond Park. I first noticed them in Barnes in the late 80's.
    There are thousands of them in Esher.
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    john_zimsjohn_zims Posts: 3,399
    @Slackbladder

    'Labour official: "We've done OK. Mediocre at best. Avoided disaster"

    Avoided disaster in mid-term when they are the only opposition party in parliament.

    Pure comedy.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    drspy

    Labour fail in Avonmouth even with UKIP at 24%
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    I agree with Polruan downthread. UKIP's advance is clearly mainly at Tory expense and in a tactical sense that's good for Labour and is allowing us to pick up seats in all kinds of unlikely places (including the Deep South, pace John Zims). It clearly doesn't equate to winning the intellectual argument and that's not so good for us.

    That said, what passes for political debate in Britain when it's been squeezed through the party media managers barely qualifies as intellectual argument, from any party. "We'll make you better off, the other side are rubbish" sums up 75% of all the messages. UKIP's "They're all rubbish, we're new and common sense" is just a variant on the theme. to be fair, the main parties do quite serious work on policy as well, but it's not deemed appropriate for mass market messaging.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    sam said:

    I think the best way for Ed Miliband to deal with any threat from UKIP would be to say that mass immigration has improved Britains education system, reduced crime and saved our economy.

    He should add that Nigel Farage is a 21st century Hitler who hates Europeans and will probably lead us into a long, drawn out war with the rest of the continent, starting with his German wife and kids.

    He should conclude with the news that an opinion poll has shown the public to be very pleased with the increase in chocolate since the chocolate rations were reduced.

    :D:D - do you have a mole in Labour/tim HQ ?
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,008
    Miss Plato, maybe Clegg should claim it's a triumph for increasing the proportionality of Lib Dem vote share to seats. 1.4% of the vote and 0% of the seat is a very close match for a FPTP system.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Plato said:

    What's the lowest a HMG party has polled in a by-election? Have the LDs managed with their 1.4%?

    Lib Dems getting hammered in 'old labour' areas. As OGH predicted.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2013
    Nick

    Labour is not winning seats in unlikely places so far. It's behind par so far.

    And if you are right about Nottinghamshire going NOC, it's another disappointment.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322

    Socrates said:


    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    What a beautiful epigram. Yours?

    It's a widely used saying, Nick. As is, somewhat bizarrely, the opposite.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Warwickshire and Staffs heading for NOC.
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    I saw this comment from the commenter Dog over at the Telegraph blogs page on UKIP. I hope they print a copy out at CCHQ and nail it to the walls and stick it in Dave's in-tray. Pretty clear summary of of what is happening in UK politics and why:

    Grant Shapps is desperate. The tories are desperate.

    They are NOT listening. All they are saying is, "we are listening, BUT in 2015 it will be a choice between Miliband and Cameron walking through the door of number 10"

    That proves that they are NOT listening.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH BETWEEN MILIBAND OR CAMERON IS IN NO.10!!! the choice in who we vote for is WHO IS OFFERING US POLICIES WE WANT? The tories are NOT doing that.

    The tories and labour are damned near identical. Both are Quantititive easing losers, running a debt and deficit within less than 1% of each other's plans, both are dedicated to remaining IN the EU, whether it gets reformed, or not! Both are dedicated to allowing immigration to continue through the EU, Both are dedicated to killing tens of thousands each winter with hypothermia due to carbon taxes and subsidies for useless windmills pushing millions into energy poverty, both are appeasing politically correct pressure groups and encouraging divisive victimhood special pleading and social breakdown.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH ANTI-BRITISH PM WE GET IF WE CANNOT WIN. WE ARE NOT VOTING FOR YOUR CORRUPT ANTI BRITISH AGENDA!!!

    How plain is that? DO YOU TORIES GET IT YET?

    You had your chance to kill UKIP in 2010. UKIP even gave you the pistol and the instructions. UKIP offered to effectively stand down completely and give the tories a free run at a majority IF they gave us the in-or-out referendum on the EU 80% of the people want. Cameron rejected that offer.

    We warned you what would happen and you did not listen then.

    Now we are taking your right to govern us away, you are beginning to take note, but your arrogance means that your are still NOT listening.

    We will not vote for you until you deliver:

    A full, real, genuine in or out referendum on EU membership before, or by the date of the next general election.

    A real cap on immigration, including from the EU

    LOW simple taxes, smaller government.

    Scrap the windfarms and deliver affordable energy

    An end to politically correct divisiveness.

    Unless you do that, it shows that you are NOT listening.
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Roger said:

    OT. Anyone seen any parakeets flying wild? I've just seen a squadron!


    A harbinger!
    Now that UKIP are proclaiming themselves the third party perhaps they are changing their logo to a flying parakeet just to annoy Clegg. ;)

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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited May 2013

    I agree with Polruan downthread. UKIP's advance is clearly mainly at Tory expense and in a tactical sense that's good for Labour and is allowing us to pick up seats in all kinds of unlikely places (including the Deep South, pace John Zims). It clearly doesn't equate to winning the intellectual argument and that's not so good for us.

    That said, what passes for political debate in Britain when it's been squeezed through the party media managers barely qualifies as intellectual argument, from any party. "We'll make you better off, the other side are rubbish" sums up 75% of all the messages. UKIP's "They're all rubbish, we're new and common sense" is just a variant on the theme. to be fair, the main parties do quite serious work on policy as well, but it's not deemed appropriate for mass market messaging.

    Nick, which of these seats make up Broxtowe out of interest ?

    http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/election2013
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    Frank Field interview:

    He also quite fancies a scrap with Europe over Bulgarian and Romanian migrants. If the UK announces it isn’t prepared to accept many new migrants from these countries when transitional controls lift, then the rest of Europe will follow, he predicts. ‘Once somebody breaches the dyke, I think others will follow,’ he says. But there’s also a chance for him or another MP to spark a fight in the Commons. Field wants to introduce a bill tying welfare to claimants’ contributions to the system, their functions as a worker and the amount of time they’ve spent in the country. ‘I’d love to do this,’ he says. ‘I shall be going into the private members’ ballot.’ And he believes that a backbench bill along these lines would make life difficult for the government by crystallising opinion in the Commons. On which note, he also suggests Labour should trump David Cameron by bringing forward its own legislation for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU (Field was one of 19 Labour MPs who rebelled on the 2011 backbench vote for a referendum).

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/coffeehouse/2013/05/frank-field-interview-labour-needs-to-do-something-dramatic-to-win-back-its-lost-working-class-voters/
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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Some of the council websites for these results are quite nice, good to see they're getting into the 21st century
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,008
    F1: interestingly, Mercedes and Kubica are working fairly closely. If he recovers enough they're going to let him try one of their F1 cars:
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22395082

    I'd be nervous if I were Rosberg. Kubica was very talented, but a lack of competitive cars meant that he didn't get in the headlines as much as his skill warranted.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    BBC from Doncaster:

    Ind candidate Mick Maye says "Labour walkover" 1 of Peter Davies (former EngDem incumbent)' team claims 2 horse race. No one betting here yet at Doncaster racecourse
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Millsy said:

    Some of the council websites for these results are quite nice, good to see they're getting into the 21st century

    A few of them are so modern they have got rid of traditional things like results tables!!
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    samsam Posts: 727
    Plato said:

    I rather liked this

    "By contrast, all the scandals surrounding Ukip this week only confirmed its accidental authenticity – its refusal or inability to be anything other than crude, rude and painfully honest. It is also fun. Humour is very important in Anglosphere politics. For the English, wit is the way that we communicate fury, intelligence and love. There's something funny, and thus irresistible, about Farage with a cigarette in hand, hat on head, charming the voters with his market banter.

    Yesterday, people voted Ukip partly out anger and partly for a laugh. It’s a very British revolution... http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/timstanley/100215169/ukip-is-a-very-british-revolution/

    What a shockingly old fashioned view on what it is to be British. A British revolution would have involved steel drums, Chicken Tikka Massala, Polish electricians making the streetlights flash, and people whose grandparents fought for the UK in the Battle of Britain cheering them on waving EU flags and government focus group surveys, fighting for the continuing British tradition of mass immigration, equality and diversity

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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    1 UKIP and 1 Lab gain in Norfolk so far.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    UKIP get the first seat from Buckinghamshire.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    Guido Fawkes ‏@GuidoFawkes 59s
    Doctor Paddy's diagnosis >> @oflynnexpress: Electro-cardiograph of One Nation Labour:________________________________________

    hehehe
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    What's the feeling re Kipper winners in Norfolk? If it goes the way of Lincolnshire - we could be having even more fun.
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    samsam Posts: 727
    edited May 2013
    tim said:

    @TGOHF

    Clearly the way to get UKIP votes back for the Tories is to let a few British Army interpreters get strung up.

    Heard that story yesterday its ridiculous that he might not be allowed asylum. If the government deny him after allowing in Lord knows how many bogus aslyum seekers in, the word "asylum" will have lost its meaning almost to the degree of the word "racism"



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    MillsyMillsy Posts: 900
    Turnout appears to be low according to BBC (last time was with Euros). Probably not helping Labour
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    From the Telegraph:

    "If the share of the vote in these elections was replicated at the next general election, Ed Miliband would be PM, with a tiny Labour majority in the Commons of 4 (Tim Ross writes).

    The projection, from Sky News, suggested Labour would have 327 seats, the Tories 244 and the Lib Dems 53. Other smaller parties would share 26 seats between them."

    Mid term local elections with a revolution going on in the shires and that is the best Labour can do? Bring it on.
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2013
    UKIP gain Breydon from Con in Yarmouth. 2009 Con 35 Lab 32 UKIP 24
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    DavidL said:

    From the Telegraph:

    "If the share of the vote in these elections was replicated at the next general election, Ed Miliband would be PM, with a tiny Labour majority in the Commons of 4 (Tim Ross writes).

    The projection, from Sky News, suggested Labour would have 327 seats, the Tories 244 and the Lib Dems 53. Other smaller parties would share 26 seats between them."

    Mid term local elections with a revolution going on in the shires and that is the best Labour can do? Bring it on.

    Were the areas voting disproportionately Tory, though?
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    Lab gain Buxton N&E from CON . Lib Dems from 631 votes to just 84. Lab vote holds up, ~ 400 CON votes to kippers. http://www.derbyshire.gov.uk/council/elections/2013/electoraldivisions/default.asp?area=High Peak&locationId=H01
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    SocratesSocrates Posts: 10,322
    SeanT said:

    Twitter is full of lefties panicking about UKIP. Panicking even more than the Tories.

    Hilarious.

    What hashtags should I look for?
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Another UKIP gain in Yarmouth. They defeated the former Lab MP by 20 votes.
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    rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 54,068
    Patrick said:

    I saw this comment from the commenter Dog over at the Telegraph blogs page on UKIP. I hope they print a copy out at CCHQ and nail it to the walls and stick it in Dave's in-tray. Pretty clear summary of of what is happening in UK politics and why:

    Grant Shapps is desperate. The tories are desperate.

    They are NOT listening. All they are saying is, "we are listening, BUT in 2015 it will be a choice between Miliband and Cameron walking through the door of number 10"

    That proves that they are NOT listening.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH BETWEEN MILIBAND OR CAMERON IS IN NO.10!!! the choice in who we vote for is WHO IS OFFERING US POLICIES WE WANT? The tories are NOT doing that.

    The tories and labour are damned near identical. Both are Quantititive easing losers, running a debt and deficit within less than 1% of each other's plans, both are dedicated to remaining IN the EU, whether it gets reformed, or not! Both are dedicated to allowing immigration to continue through the EU, Both are dedicated to killing tens of thousands each winter with hypothermia due to carbon taxes and subsidies for useless windmills pushing millions into energy poverty, both are appeasing politically correct pressure groups and encouraging divisive victimhood special pleading and social breakdown.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH ANTI-BRITISH PM WE GET IF WE CANNOT WIN. WE ARE NOT VOTING FOR YOUR CORRUPT ANTI BRITISH AGENDA!!!

    How plain is that? DO YOU TORIES GET IT YET?

    You had your chance to kill UKIP in 2010. UKIP even gave you the pistol and the instructions. UKIP offered to effectively stand down completely and give the tories a free run at a majority IF they gave us the in-or-out referendum on the EU 80% of the people want. Cameron rejected that offer.

    We warned you what would happen and you did not listen then.

    Now we are taking your right to govern us away, you are beginning to take note, but your arrogance means that your are still NOT listening.

    We will not vote for you until you deliver:

    A full, real, genuine in or out referendum on EU membership before, or by the date of the next general election.

    A real cap on immigration, including from the EU

    LOW simple taxes, smaller government.

    Scrap the windfarms and deliver affordable energy

    An end to politically correct divisiveness.

    Unless you do that, it shows that you are NOT listening.

    I love the 'scrap the windfarms' line. Surely it would actually make economic sense to simply say 'scrap the windfarm subsidies'.

    By the way, as the windfarms are levered to the hilt, with money borrowed mostly from (yes, you guessed it), the Royal Bank of Scotland (leaders in windfarm financing!), we will end up picking up the bill irrespective.

    'Affordable energy' is not something that is within the government's ability to deliver. Yes, they can scrap windfarm subsidies: but as this generates less than 5% of total UK electricity (and as the feed in tariff for your average wind-farm is about £10/megawatt hour against a current baseload price of c. £6/MWH), scrapping subsidies for wind can't reduce prices by more than 2.5% at best.

    Our energy prices are set by the world markets for coal and natural gas. These set the price of baseload electricity in the UK. There is nothing any politician can do to change the price of coal or oil or natural gas. Of course, we can and should invest more in fracking, etc., but as none of these things will stop us being an importer of these commodities, our electricity price will continue to be set by the international prices of these things.

    It is ignorant or disingenuous to suggest otherwise
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    Socrates said:

    SeanT said:

    Twitter is full of lefties panicking about UKIP. Panicking even more than the Tories.

    Hilarious.

    What hashtags should I look for?
    #littleenglandersasbadashitlergoldendawnmarielepenandprincejoffrey
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    1043: Polling expert Prof John Curtice tells the BBC: "There is little evidence to support the presumption that UKIP are doing substantially better in areas of Conservative strength." In wards where the Tories won more than 45% of votes in 2009, UKIP's average share is running at 28%, just above the national average of 27%, he adds.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Should be able to declare Bristol as NOC (no surprise) when a couple more declarations come in.

    Keep up to date with the latest numbers I'm compiling here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An6GzfHRNpYQdEhrZ3V5a0VSRWNEM3dyNktCQm1RSlE#gid=0

    Remember the change columns are just a bit of fun :)
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    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,392
    Socrates said:

    DavidL said:

    From the Telegraph:

    "If the share of the vote in these elections was replicated at the next general election, Ed Miliband would be PM, with a tiny Labour majority in the Commons of 4 (Tim Ross writes).

    The projection, from Sky News, suggested Labour would have 327 seats, the Tories 244 and the Lib Dems 53. Other smaller parties would share 26 seats between them."

    Mid term local elections with a revolution going on in the shires and that is the best Labour can do? Bring it on.

    Were the areas voting disproportionately Tory, though?
    As I understand it this is a national projection adjusting for the areas that actually voted. I can't see this projection on their website yet so I don't know the details but if that is even close to correct these results are as catastrophic for Labour as they are for the tories, arguably even worse.

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    samsam Posts: 727
    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
    I think this is an entirely correct thing for an Englishman to do... the interpreter has taken our side over the Taliban and woiuld be in mortal danger for his life were he to stay in Afghanistan. What more does someone have to do to deserve asylum? We should give him a cushy job somewhere as soon as he arrives

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    edited May 2013
    Matthew Holehouse @mattholehouse
    "If we want to win back Harlow and Thurrock we need to do a lot better," says Sadique Khan, of lacklustre Labour performance in Essex

    Harry Hayfield @HarryHayfield
    #Warwickshire Forecast: #Lab 36 (+26) #Con 22 (-11) #Green 1 (+1) #Stratford First 1 (+1) #LibDem 1 (-11) #Rates 1 (n/c) #Lab GAIN from Con
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    Banging on about Europe. How can it fail?
    Daniel Hannan ‏@DanHannanMEP

    Who are these Right-wing extremists pushing @David_Cameron towards an EU referendum? The British people, that's who! http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100215071/who-are-these-extremists-pulling-david-cameron-toward-an-inout-referendum-eighty-two-per-cent-of-the-electorate/

    This master strategy has been brought to you by Osbrowne and Lincolnshire tory councillors.

    ;^)
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Norfolk:
    Lab gain Clenchwarton & King's Lynn South
    UKIP gain Gaywood North

    A Kipper elected in Suffolk so far
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    LDs results in Bristol - losing to Greens 2, Tories 1, Independent 1, Labour 1.

    http://www.bristol.gov.uk/LocalElectionViewer?XSL=main&ElectionId=67
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422

    Socrates said:


    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    What a beautiful epigram. Yours?

    Yes and no. It depends on how well controlled the sample is, because the singular of data is anecdote. (Actually, I think it's datum, but you get the idea).
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mick_Pork said:

    Banging on about Europe. How can it fail?

    Daniel Hannan ‏@DanHannanMEP

    Who are these Right-wing extremists pushing @David_Cameron towards an EU referendum? The British people, that's who! http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100215071/who-are-these-extremists-pulling-david-cameron-toward-an-inout-referendum-eighty-two-per-cent-of-the-electorate/

    This master strategy has been brought to you by Osbrowne and Lincolnshire tory councillors.

    ;^)

    Yes, agreeing with the voters is so dumb.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
    I think this is an entirely correct thing for an Englishman to do... the interpreter has taken our side over the Taliban and woiuld be in mortal danger for his life were he to stay in Afghanistan. What more does someone have to do to deserve asylum? We should give him a cushy job somewhere as soon as he arrives

    Why brain drain the country ? These chaps could be jolly useful putting the country back on its feet - it's a big place - I'm sure they could move to another town where they aren't recognised.

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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Joe Watts @JoeWatts_
    In one Norfolk County seat, Ukip won beating the sitting Tory cabinet member and the Labour candidate who is leader of the District Council!
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    edited May 2013
    I don't know how accurate it can be
    but UKIP is probably not taking many Labour 2010 voters....but they are taking former Lab voters who switched to Con in 2006-10 and are bypassing them now
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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746

    I don't know how accurate it can be
    but UKIP is probably not taking many Labour 2010 voters....but they are taking former Lab voters who switched to Con in 2006-10 and are bypassing them now

    So, UKIP is the swingers party?

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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530
    edited May 2013

    Mick_Pork said:

    Banging on about Europe. How can it fail?

    Daniel Hannan ‏@DanHannanMEP

    Who are these Right-wing extremists pushing @David_Cameron towards an EU referendum? The British people, that's who! http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100215071/who-are-these-extremists-pulling-david-cameron-toward-an-inout-referendum-eighty-two-per-cent-of-the-electorate/

    This master strategy has been brought to you by Osbrowne and Lincolnshire tory councillors.

    ;^)
    Yes, agreeing with the voters is so dumb.


    You think UKIP are dumb for capitalising on the tory stupidity of running on one of UKIPs core issues they will never outflank them on? I rather think it's the other way around somehow.

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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Kent is about to start reporting...it could be another big area for UKIP
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    There weren't many Labour voters at all in 2010 - and none outside their regional strongholds.
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Pulpstar said:



    Nick, which of these seats make up Broxtowe out of interest ?

    http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/election2013

    The best Notts overview is here:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nottinghamshire_County_Council_election,_2013

    Beeston South should go Labour. There might be no other changes at all, though there are several seats where a surprise is possible. depending on UKIP's impact. The "problem" is that centre-left voters in Broxtowe have an ingrained habit of voting LibDem locally and Labour nationally. At local elections, it frustrates us, and at GEs it frustrates the LibDems.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    @anotherDave

    Dogging scandal hits UKIP?
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    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,072
    rcs1000 said:

    Patrick said:

    I saw this comment from the commenter Dog over at the Telegraph blogs page on UKIP. I hope they print a copy out at CCHQ and nail it to the walls and stick it in Dave's in-tray. Pretty clear summary of of what is happening in UK politics and why:

    Grant Shapps is desperate. The tories are desperate.

    They are NOT listening. All they are saying is, "we are listening, BUT in 2015 it will be a choice between Miliband and Cameron walking through the door of number 10"

    That proves that they are NOT listening.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH BETWEEN MILIBAND OR CAMERON IS IN NO.10!!! the choice in who we vote for is WHO IS OFFERING US POLICIES WE WANT? The tories are NOT doing that.

    The tories and labour are damned near identical. Both are Quantititive easing losers, running a debt and deficit within less than 1% of each other's plans, both are dedicated to remaining IN the EU, whether it gets reformed, or not! Both are dedicated to allowing immigration to continue through the EU, Both are dedicated to killing tens of thousands each winter with hypothermia due to carbon taxes and subsidies for useless windmills pushing millions into energy poverty, both are appeasing politically correct pressure groups and encouraging divisive victimhood special pleading and social breakdown.

    WE DO NOT CARE WHICH ANTI-BRITISH PM WE GET IF WE CANNOT WIN. WE ARE NOT VOTING FOR YOUR CORRUPT ANTI BRITISH AGENDA!!!

    How plain is that? DO YOU TORIES GET IT YET?

    You had your chance to kill UKIP in 2010. UKIP even gave you the pistol and the instructions. UKIP offered to effectively stand down completely and give the tories a free run at a majority IF they gave us the in-or-out referendum on the EU 80% of the people want. Cameron rejected that offer.

    We warned you what would happen and you did not listen then.

    Now we are taking your right to govern us away, you are beginning to take note, but your arrogance means that your are still NOT listening.

    We will not vote for you until you deliver:

    A full, real, genuine in or out referendum on EU membership before, or by the date of the next general election.

    A real cap on immigration, including from the EU

    LOW simple taxes, smaller government.

    Scrap the windfarms and deliver affordable energy

    An end to politically correct divisiveness.

    Unless you do that, it shows that you are NOT listening.

    I love the 'scrap the windfarms' line. Surely it would actually make economic sense to simply say 'scrap the windfarm subsidies'.

    By the way, as the windfarms are levered to the hilt, with money borrowed mostly from (yes, you guessed it), the Royal Bank of Scotland (leaders in windfarm financing!), we will end up picking up the bill irrespective.

    'Affordable energy' is not something that is within the government's ability to deliver. Yes, they can scrap windfarm subsidies: but as this generates less than 5% of total UK electricity (and as the feed in tariff for your average wind-farm is about £10/megawatt hour against a current baseload price of c. £6/MWH), scrapping subsidies for wind can't reduce prices by more than 2.5% at best.

    Our energy prices are set by the world markets for coal and natural gas. These set the price of baseload electricity in the UK. There is nothing any politician can do to change the price of coal or oil or natural gas. Of course, we can and should invest more in fracking, etc., but as none of these things will stop us being an importer of these commodities, our electricity price will continue to be set by the international prices of these things.

    It is ignorant or disingenuous to suggest otherwise
    Well said. But that 2.5% would be blooming useful at this current time. Every little helps. ;-0
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    Fee Ransome isn't alone...

    Lucy Osborne @Lucy_Osborne
    Three women in one family become UKIP councilors in Boston, Lincolnshire - Sue Ransome and her daughters Felicity and Lizzie
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    NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,369
    Notts update: Labour is gaining seats in the north and Hucknall. We should be largest party - overall control is a stretch and depends on several results tipping at once - it will either be just exceeded or just missed.
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    samsam Posts: 727
    TGOHF said:

    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
    I think this is an entirely correct thing for an Englishman to do... the interpreter has taken our side over the Taliban and woiuld be in mortal danger for his life were he to stay in Afghanistan. What more does someone have to do to deserve asylum? We should give him a cushy job somewhere as soon as he arrives

    Why brain drain the country ? These chaps could be jolly useful putting the country back on its feet - it's a big place - I'm sure they could move to another town where they aren't recognised.

    If it were down to me, he should be given the option to stay put if he likes but welcomed with open arms if he want to live here.

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    anotherDaveanotherDave Posts: 6,746
    Mick_Pork said:

    Mick_Pork said:

    Banging on about Europe. How can it fail?

    Daniel Hannan ‏@DanHannanMEP

    Who are these Right-wing extremists pushing @David_Cameron towards an EU referendum? The British people, that's who! http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100215071/who-are-these-extremists-pulling-david-cameron-toward-an-inout-referendum-eighty-two-per-cent-of-the-electorate/

    This master strategy has been brought to you by Osbrowne and Lincolnshire tory councillors.

    ;^)
    Yes, agreeing with the voters is so dumb.
    You think UKIP are dumb for capitalising on the tory stupidity of running on one of UKIPs core issues they will never outflank them on? I rather think it's the other way around somehow.
    Holding the in/out referendum satisfies the public's desire for one. Doing popular things is a good idea for a political party.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    TGOHF said:

    There weren't many Labour voters at all in 2010 - and none outside their regional strongholds.

    Iain @Iain_33
    Labour crowing they've not lost any seats they only had 178 & those were won under Gordon Brown - they weren't going to lose them
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Reading the thread so far, how much pressure is Dave under here? is this starting to get serious?
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Greens pick up another seat in Bristol. NOC hold Bristol!
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    Gerry_ManderGerry_Mander Posts: 621


    The plural of anecdote is not data.

    datum and data. Is it time to resurrect the old joke?

    What are the statisticians doing with the datums that I gave you last week?

    They're all sat on their ba's doing their sa's ;-)
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    1059:

    UKIP has taken five seats in Norfolk so far, as counting continues. They are in Gorleston, Dereham South, Marshland North, Breydon, and Gaywood North and Central.
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    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 20,920
    DavidL said:

    From the Telegraph:

    "If the share of the vote in these elections was replicated at the next general election, Ed Miliband would be PM, with a tiny Labour majority in the Commons of 4 (Tim Ross writes).

    The projection, from Sky News, suggested Labour would have 327 seats, the Tories 244 and the Lib Dems 53. Other smaller parties would share 26 seats between them."

    Mid term local elections with a revolution going on in the shires and that is the best Labour can do? Bring it on.

    We're not exactly talking 1995 here are we? ;)
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    NeilNeil Posts: 7,983
    RobD said:

    Greens pick up another seat in Bristol. NOC hold Bristol!

    It doesnt really matter whether it's NOC or a majority for any party now that the mayor has been installed.

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    RobD said:

    Should be able to declare Bristol as NOC (no surprise) when a couple more declarations come in.

    Keep up to date with the latest numbers I'm compiling here:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0An6GzfHRNpYQdEhrZ3V5a0VSRWNEM3dyNktCQm1RSlE#gid=0

    Remember the change columns are just a bit of fun :)

    A really terrific effort by you Rob and many thanks - it says a great deal about your brilliant spreadsheet when one can't find anything nearly as good on any of the leading media/broadcasters' sites.
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    TGOHFTGOHF Posts: 21,633
    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    sam said:

    TGOHF said:

    Socrates said:

    TGOHF said:

    The Cons simply reversing a foolish Labour policy.

    I disagree. There are only a few hundred Afghan interpreters, so will not make much difference to overall migration. They speak very good English. They have been working closely with Britons. They chose to side with forces of democracy and progress. And they have an emotional connection to this country, having risked their lives for our boys. Like the Gurkhas, I think we should let them stay.
    We've fixed your country but it's still rubbish - so come live with us.

    Exactly the sort of pander to the public sector special cases that Ukip was railling against no ?
    I think this is an entirely correct thing for an Englishman to do... the interpreter has taken our side over the Taliban and woiuld be in mortal danger for his life were he to stay in Afghanistan. What more does someone have to do to deserve asylum? We should give him a cushy job somewhere as soon as he arrives

    Why brain drain the country ? These chaps could be jolly useful putting the country back on its feet - it's a big place - I'm sure they could move to another town where they aren't recognised.

    If it were down to me, he should be given the option to stay put if he likes but welcomed with open arms if he want to live here.


    He was a translator - not a secret agent who infiltrated Osama's cave. What next - taxi drivers, cooks and cleaners ?
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    1043:

    Polling expert Prof John Curtice tells the BBC: "There is little evidence to support the presumption that UKIP are doing substantially better in areas of Conservative strength." In wards where the Tories won more than 45% of votes in 2009, UKIP's average share is running at 28%, just above the national average of 27%, he adds.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Oh and BBC chimes in 5 minutes after the PB declaration!
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    edited May 2013

    Notts update: Labour is gaining seats in the north and Hucknall. We should be largest party - overall control is a stretch and depends on several results tipping at once - it will either be just exceeded or just missed.

    Continuing the north-midlands theme: Buxton West.

    Matthew Alexander Bain Green Party 219
    Tony Arthur Kemp Conservative 1123
    Bob Morris Independent 771
    Fiona Sloman Labour 952
    Christopher Richard Warhurst Weaver Liberal Democrat 90

    2009:

    Robin Basil Baldry (Conservative) 2292 votes
    Jane Ann McGrother (Labour) 831 votes
    Christopher Richard Warhurst Weaver(Liberal Democrats) 832 votes

    CON is lucky UKIP didn't stand there. Anyway Lib Dems from 832 to 90 !! votes. Lib Dems had 8 wards in Derbyshire. I wouldn't be surprised to see complete annihilation.
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    @RobD

    Tory gain in Horfield from LDs in Bristol.
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990
    Five UKIP seats in Norfolk so far.. looking good for them there.
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections

    Tunbridge Wells??!

    I'm disgusted...
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    taffystaffys Posts: 9,753
    Tunbridge Wells??!

    Dave wakes up and looks out onto his lawn....what are those purple tanks doing out there??
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    dr_spyndr_spyn Posts: 11,290
    1102: Professor John Curtice has been looking at how the "smaller" parties have done in wards where they also fielded candidates in 2009. UKIP is up 14 points at 26%. Meanwhile, the Greens are down three points at 7% and the British National Party is down 11 points at 4%.
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724
    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections

    Tunbridge Wells??!

    They accidentally won last year and beheaded the Tory leader - the Kipper was a lawyer who'd done zero campaigning bar car stickers and a few garden posters. He was gobsmacked.

    RTW is perfect Kipper ground IMO.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    Nick

    You have just gained Sutton Central with Libdems last. According to De Piero
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    SlackbladderSlackbladder Posts: 9,713
    BBC Politics ‏@BBCPolitics 31s
    Victory in Lothingland ward moves UKIP up to six seats in Norfolk.

    Wrath of the bumpkins...
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    JonCJonC Posts: 67
    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections

    Tunbridge Wells??!

    Why the exclamation marks? Isn;t 50% of the electorate retired colonels? It was surely #1 nailed on UKIP gain

    Looks like UKIP could be heading to >100 gains (does it??) anyone on to win money on such a bet?
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    Mick_PorkMick_Pork Posts: 6,530

    Holding the in/out referendum satisfies the public's desire for one. Doing popular things is a good idea for a political party.

    Posturing and pretending you're going to hold one satisfies gullible tory eurosceptics, for a while at least. Continually making a fool of those MPs is eventually going to come back to bite Cammie.

    Pledging things you have no intention of sticking to is not a good idea for a political party

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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    A second Green elected in Warwickshire
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    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,422
    Plato said:

    What's the lowest a HMG party has polled in a by-election? Have the LDs managed with their 1.4%?

    Yes, they have. The previous lowest appears to be Labour's 1.7% in Winchester in 1997.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,002
    If we think UKIP's numbers are good now, just wait and see how they are after 3 years of Ed Miliband Gov't.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584

    BBC Politics ‏@BBCPolitics 31s
    Victory in Lothingland ward moves UKIP up to six seats in Norfolk.

    Wrath of the bumpkins...

    So right now, if you're from Norfolk you can count the number of UKIP councillors in Norfolk on the fingers of just one hand
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    Norfolk already looking very good for UKIP with just a few results in so far.
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    A big thanks from me to Rob as well for pulling together the Google Doc. The other sites are miles behind.
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    MikeSmithsonMikeSmithson Posts: 7,382
    I'm on to be make money on Ukip gains over 100. Looks a certainty.
    JonC said:

    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections

    Tunbridge Wells??!

    Why the exclamation marks? Isn;t 50% of the electorate retired colonels? It was surely #1 nailed on UKIP gain

    Looks like UKIP could be heading to >100 gains (does it??) anyone on to win money on such a bet?
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    JonCJonC Posts: 67

    I'm on to be make money on Ukip gains over 100. Looks a certainty.

    JonC said:

    SeanT said:

    Tim Wyatt ‏@tswyatt 5m
    Ukip have won Tunbridge Wells East. Polled 1,386. Tories only 1,005. #kccelections

    Tunbridge Wells??!

    Why the exclamation marks? Isn;t 50% of the electorate retired colonels? It was surely #1 nailed on UKIP gain

    Looks like UKIP could be heading to >100 gains (does it??) anyone on to win money on such a bet?
    Nice one :-)
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    Morris_DancerMorris_Dancer Posts: 61,008
    Thanks, Mr. T. That (and the less well-received Farageddon) came to me as I groggily awoke and switched the TV on this morning.
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    AndreaParma_82AndreaParma_82 Posts: 4,714
    A second Kipper in Suffolk now
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    PlatoPlato Posts: 15,724


    10.48 Early results suggest Labour's recovery from the disasterous 2009 elections has been modest.

    In Essex yesterday, Labour received 17 per cent of the vote, the Lib Dems 11 per cent and the Tories 34 per cent.

    In 2009, those figures were 11, 20 and 43 - a gain of 6 per cent for Labour.

    In 1997, ahead of Tony Blair's landslide, they were 32, 26 and 39.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 114,584
    Ladbrokes Politics ‏@LadPolitics 49s

    Ladbrokes latest odds on UKIP vote share at next election:

    0-5% 5/2
    5-10 2/1
    10-15 7/2
    15-20 5/1
    20-25 12/1
    25%+ 14/1
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    RobDRobD Posts: 58,990

    A big thanks from me to Rob as well for pulling together the Google Doc. The other sites are miles behind.

    Thanks, and its no problem! Makes it more exciting

    One thing annoying me is that Shropshire and Warwickshire don't have a results table, so I literally have to count the blue/red on the map!! Also, remember the change figures wont make sense until each council is 100% declared.
This discussion has been closed.