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You get what you vote for – politicalbetting.com

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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033

    Oh FFS. A "Free Free Palestine" chant at the Galloway HQ in Rochdale.

    Watching the way Galloway supporters tried to shout down Sam Coates of Sky demonstrated Sunak's point
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033
    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak says the Rochdale by-election victory by George Galloway demands a response.

    Not this kind of response!

    A better response - call the GE and suddenly Galloway is out again.
    Are you sure ?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,934
    edited March 1
    Okay, I've just listened, carefully, to Sunak in full. It was utterly banal and inappropriate to what's going on. He speaks as if the streets are full of corpses murdered by extremist protesters. Yes, it's a bit tense out there, but actually most stuff is still going off pretty peacefully. Normally it's the job of government to defuse such tensions. I reckon Sunak's speech will not do so.

    I expect him to announce that the measures he is introducing will start in 2025.
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    londonpubmanlondonpubman Posts: 3,431
    edited March 1

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak says the Rochdale by-election victory by George Galloway demands a response.

    Not this kind of response!

    A better response - call the GE and suddenly Galloway is out again.
    Are you sure ?
    Still time to call the GE for 2 May

    Budget next week

    GE called the following week
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,178

    Much of the speech was generic platitude, but there was a section where he started talking about people's views of history etc. that got very anti-woke. Is there a possibility that his new framework will get overly censorious?

    Talking about our country being defined by sacrifice was certainly playing on authoritarian right tropes, as was "when they say that Britain has been on the wrong side of history, we should reject it and reject it again", and that it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033

    IanB2 said:

    kle4 said:

    Sunak says the Rochdale by-election victory by George Galloway demands a response.

    Not this kind of response!

    A better response - call the GE and suddenly Galloway is out again.
    Are you sure ?
    Still time to call the GE for 2 May

    Budget next week

    GE called the following week
    I just do not see it
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    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    AlsoLei said:

    Much of the speech was generic platitude, but there was a section where he started talking about people's views of history etc. that got very anti-woke. Is there a possibility that his new framework will get overly censorious?

    Talking about our country being defined by sacrifice was certainly playing on authoritarian right tropes, as was "when they say that Britain has been on the wrong side of history, we should reject it and reject it again", and that it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.
    Don't we only have to reject it again if they say it again?
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    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,191
    edited March 1
    AlsoLei said:

    Much of the speech was generic platitude, but there was a section where he started talking about people's views of history etc. that got very anti-woke. Is there a possibility that his new framework will get overly censorious?

    Talking about our country being defined by sacrifice was certainly playing on authoritarian right tropes, as was "when they say that Britain has been on the wrong side of history, we should reject it and reject it again", and that it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.
    He's trying to integrate the two and promote the idea that we fought WW2 in order to bring about a multicultural society.
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    TresTres Posts: 2,349
    Sunak going full police state I see. No election in 2024?
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    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 28,634

    Looks like Suella Braverman is going to be expelled from the Tory Party, then. She fits the bill for Sunak's definition of divisive extremism.

    The Triggernometry blokes have managed to get an interview with Suella Braverman, their biggest scoop so far.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7kaAimNFzY
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    boulayboulay Posts: 4,693
    Tres said:

    Sunak going full police state I see. No election in 2024?

    If that’s what it takes to get to the point we can execute the little fuckers who take the silencers off mopeds then I welcome it.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783

    Okay, I've just listened, carefully, to Sunak in full. It was utterly banal and inappropriate to what's going on. He speaks as if the streets are full of corpses murdered by extremist protesters. Yes, it's a bit tense out there, but actually most stuff is still going off pretty peacefully. Normally it's the job of government to defuse such tensions. I reckon Sunak's speech will not do so.

    I expect him to announce that the measures he is introducing will start in 2025.

    The costs of them will by necessity be zero because Hunt won't want those in the Treasury forecasts spoiling his tax cutting budget.
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    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 1,178

    Okay, I've just listened, carefully, to Sunak in full. It was utterly banal and inappropriate to what's going on. He speaks as if the streets are full of corpses murdered by extremist protesters. Yes, it's a bit tense out there, but actually most stuff is still going off pretty peacefully. Normally it's the job of government to defuse such tensions. I reckon Sunak's speech will not do so.

    I expect him to announce that the measures he is introducing will start in 2025.

    That's exactly the problem - so much of the speech felt as if it was building up to the declaration of martial law, the imposition of a curfew, or the introduction of internment.

    Perhaps his robust framework is going to be very robust...
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783

    Oh FFS. A "Free Free Palestine" chant at the Galloway HQ in Rochdale.

    Watching the way Galloway supporters tried to shout down Sam Coates of Sky demonstrated Sunak's point
    Opportunity for the Lib Dems to look like the adults in the room now. If they/we have a soupcon of tactical nous.
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033
    Three people injured in Clapham shooting
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    TimS said:

    Oh FFS. A "Free Free Palestine" chant at the Galloway HQ in Rochdale.

    Watching the way Galloway supporters tried to shout down Sam Coates of Sky demonstrated Sunak's point
    Opportunity for the Lib Dems to look like the adults in the room now. If they/we have a soupcon of tactical nous.
    Spoiler alert: they don’t.
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380

    Ian Dunt
    @IanDunt
    ·
    13m
    Absolute professionalism from @SamCoatesSky
    on Sky just now in very challenging circumstances - with Galloway angrily berating for having the temerity of asking questions and a growing crowd trying to shout him down.
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,934
    edited March 1

    Three people injured in Clapham shooting

    Look what Sunak's started!
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033


    Ian Dunt
    @IanDunt
    ·
    13m
    Absolute professionalism from @SamCoatesSky
    on Sky just now in very challenging circumstances - with Galloway angrily berating for having the temerity of asking questions and a growing crowd trying to shout him down.

    As I said earlier it made Sunak's point
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,762
    viewcode said:

    ... it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.

    That's entirely true. The Conservative Party has changed into one where whatever one's colour or creed one can succeed merely by working for an investment bank and then marrying the daughter of a billionaire.

    That was AlsoLei, not me
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033

    Three people injured in Clapham shooting

    Look what Sunak's started!
    Happened before his speech
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380

    Ian Dunt
    @IanDunt
    ·
    22m
    That could have been worse, I guess. About halfway through I was expecting some really quite draconian anti-protest laws. Instead, it was simply... nothing. A nothing speech by a nothing man, who lacks the vision or conviction to make a meaningful intervention.


    lucy siegle
    @lucysiegle
    ·
    24m
    And also delayed Pointless, ironically.

    https://twitter.com/IanDunt/status/1763627187461046766
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    I know we like to talk about Starmer's lack of vision and policies but what exactly does Sunak believe in or want to do? Does anyone know?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    BBC headline is 'Democracy is being targeted by extremists says Sunak'.


    Was he talking about the GOP party then?
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    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380

    I know we like to talk about Starmer's lack of vision and policies but what exactly does Sunak believe in or want to do? Does anyone know?

    AI will make me even richer next year?
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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,934
    One further thought. Who, above everybody else, will have gained the most pleasure from seeing Sunak give a 'special' speech to the nation about the threat of extremism?
    Answer: George Galloway, of course.
    Sunak's a muppet.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,562
    What a succinct, powerful header.

    Thank-you, @RochdalePioneers .
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101

    He does know that he has just lit the fire under the protests? "THEY WANT TO BAN US". With Tossface Galloway as the face of the protestors. And Nigel Farage the face of the "WHY WON'T THIS GOVERNMENT STOP THEM" rants.

    Tories will be passed by RefUK pretty quickly now.

    Have the Tories wargamed this and concluded it shafts Labour?

    If this is the case, it might be genius, but it has potentially dangerous ramifications.
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,922
    Re the discussion earlier about high streets.
    According to the Estates Gazette, British Land have sold the Royal Victoria Place Shopping Centre in Tunbridge Wells to the local council for £8.1 million. It was supposedly valued at around £4 million.
    It has apparently lost a total of £100 million having acquired it for around £90 million in 2018.

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    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,934

    Three people injured in Clapham shooting

    Look what Sunak's started!
    Happened before his speech
    And of course I wasn't being serious.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,562

    Sermon from the Mini Fount

    I'd call that a sermonette.
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    El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,131
    .

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 61,033

    Three people injured in Clapham shooting

    Look what Sunak's started!
    Happened before his speech
    And of course I wasn't being serious.
    I know
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    darkagedarkage Posts: 4,922
    Andy_JS said:

    Looks like Suella Braverman is going to be expelled from the Tory Party, then. She fits the bill for Sunak's definition of divisive extremism.

    The Triggernometry blokes have managed to get an interview with Suella Braverman, their biggest scoop so far.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7kaAimNFzY
    I started listening to this and she didn't seem to have anything interesting to say - all very predictable politicians answers.
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    On topic - I'm very far from being a supporter of Galloway but it strikes me that targeting different leaflets at different audiences in a seat may not be as novel as some like to pretend. Indeed it might just be good campaigning. Muslim voters were motivated by Gaza and non-Muslims by the A&E (with some cross-over of course). In that way he built a coalition of support strong enough to win. What is new about this? Galloway just did it better in this seat at this time than his opponents. The lesson to the rest has to be that they should up their game. Offer something to the electorate and get your campaign organisation up to speed. Otherwise populists of left and right will thrive. Galloway and Farage are twin cheeks of the same Putin-worshiping arse its just that George is much better at winning Westminster elections.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783
    edited March 1
    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    I think Rishi's speech was well judged and should calm everything down.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688

    viewcode said:

    ... it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.

    That's entirely true. The Conservative Party has changed into one where whatever one's colour or creed one can succeed merely by working for an investment bank and then marrying the daughter of a billionaire.

    That was AlsoLei, not me
    @rcs1000, @TSE, can you be so kind to delete my comment at https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4703563/#Comment_4703563 please? It was misattributed and it's gone beyond the edit time.
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,559

    On topic - I'm very far from being a supporter of Galloway but it strikes me that targeting different leaflets at different audiences in a seat may not be as novel as some like to pretend. Indeed it might just be good campaigning. Muslim voters were motivated by Gaza and non-Muslims by the A&E (with some cross-over of course). In that way he built a coalition of support strong enough to win. What is new about this? Galloway just did it better in this seat at this time than his opponents. The lesson to the rest has to be that they should up their game. Offer something to the electorate and get your campaign organisation up to speed. Otherwise populists of left and right will thrive. Galloway and Farage are twin cheeks of the same Putin-worshiping arse its just that George is much better at winning Westminster elections.

    He has more than one string to his bow, unlike Farage. He can do the rabble rouser thing and the Gaza stuff, Farage basically just has 'Don't like the current Tory leadership?'. It's worked well for his causes but makes it hard to win in a seat.
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    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,380

    He does know that he has just lit the fire under the protests? "THEY WANT TO BAN US". With Tossface Galloway as the face of the protestors. And Nigel Farage the face of the "WHY WON'T THIS GOVERNMENT STOP THEM" rants.

    Tories will be passed by RefUK pretty quickly now.

    Have the Tories wargamed this and concluded it shafts Labour?

    If this is the case, it might be genius, but it has potentially dangerous ramifications.
    This will be the 31st policy in a row from your hero Sunak that you have told us will shaft Labour. Genius is not the word.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    Pulpstar said:

    I think Rishi's speech was well judged and should calm everything down.

    As were Cleverly's musings on protest. Clever by name, Cleverer by nature.
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    LeonLeon Posts: 49,492
    I'm gonna have some weed
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,240
    Crypto on a real pump at the moment, my tiny balance has swollen to over 400 quid !
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,559
    edited March 1


    Sunak's a muppet.

    Oddly proportioned, controlled by unseen others, hyperactive, and not as popular as he used to be?
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    kle4kle4 Posts: 93,559
    Pulpstar said:

    Crypto on a real pump at the moment, my tiny balance has swollen to over 400 quid !

    Dump. Dump!!
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,527
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    The trouble Sunak has, and it's entirely his fault, is that everything he says or does just smacks of tactical political opportunism. It's almost impossible to listen to a speech like this, on a Friday evening, without imagining the CCHQ PR team brainstorming session on how best to milk the Galloway victory for electoral gain.

    And he's not very good at it. The SNP managed to act much more earnest and heartfelt as they attempted then failed to skewer Labour on the Gaza vote, enough to convince some people. Whereas Rishi just can't pull it off.

    This is the latest in a string of underwhelming PM podium speeches. They've rather devalued the whole thing.

    Question is whether it's CCHQ or just No 10 which brainstormed it.
    I suppose the point is deeds not words - you get much more credit when doing something that is a political risk and inconvenient to your own side as well as others.

    To be fair to Sunak, he was critical of the far right as well as the moronic Hamas fans, but it will be worse than meaningless if we're back to normal service next week and the MPs who sympathise (or pretend to sympathise) with those views, are back to running wild.

    While the PSC mob get, in a way, what they want, which is a superficial and useless crack down without challenging their attitudes and why they are so wrong. One that then allows them to play the victim of the evil Tories.

    He has his faults, but by doing something that was a risk at the time by booting and then shunning Corbyn and the horrors around him, Starmer gets a lot more credit than he would if he'd simply talked a good game on antisemitism then waffled on about unity (as, to be fair, he tried to do in his early days before realising it was a terrible idea).
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    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 26,101

    He does know that he has just lit the fire under the protests? "THEY WANT TO BAN US". With Tossface Galloway as the face of the protestors. And Nigel Farage the face of the "WHY WON'T THIS GOVERNMENT STOP THEM" rants.

    Tories will be passed by RefUK pretty quickly now.

    Have the Tories wargamed this and concluded it shafts Labour?

    If this is the case, it might be genius, but it has potentially dangerous ramifications.
    This will be the 31st policy in a row from your hero Sunak that you have told us will shaft Labour. Genius is not the word.
    I wasn't too impressed with tonight's PPB.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,909
    TimS said:

    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.

    I'm in pub in an armchair in front of a log fire and don't give a hoot about anything.
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    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783
    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.

    I'm in pub in an armchair in front of a log fire and don't give a hoot about anything.
    I have a common Friday night dilemma. My teenage son’s at a friend’s house, so do I remain sober and below the limit so I can pick him up later? Or book him an Uber.
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    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,782
    So switched my phone off at 3.30 to watch Dune Part II.

    If I understand correctly Sunak warned and condemned extremists like Suella Braverman, George Galloway, and Lee Anderson.

    Am I right?

    Also Dune Part II, fucking awesome.
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,074

    TimS said:

    Oh FFS. A "Free Free Palestine" chant at the Galloway HQ in Rochdale.

    Watching the way Galloway supporters tried to shout down Sam Coates of Sky demonstrated Sunak's point
    Opportunity for the Lib Dems to look like the adults in the room now. If they/we have a soupcon of tactical nous.
    Spoiler alert: they don’t.
    OTH this from the Graun feed:

    '“The British people will take no lessons from a prime minister and Conservative party who have sowed the seeds of division for years,” said Sir Ed Davey. “This is the same prime minister who made Suella Braverman his home secretary and Lee Anderson his party’s deputy chairman.

    “If the prime minister is serious about bringing people together, he would call a general election now so that the British public can decide the future of our country.”'
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    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 41,074

    So switched my phone off at 3.30 to watch Dune Part II.

    If I understand correctly Sunak warned and condemned extremists like Suella Braverman, George Galloway, and Lee Anderson.

    Am I right?

    Also Dune Part II, fucking awesome.

    Depends what he means by 'extremists', also 'history' and so on and so forth.
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    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,009
    Carnyx said:

    TimS said:

    Oh FFS. A "Free Free Palestine" chant at the Galloway HQ in Rochdale.

    Watching the way Galloway supporters tried to shout down Sam Coates of Sky demonstrated Sunak's point
    Opportunity for the Lib Dems to look like the adults in the room now. If they/we have a soupcon of tactical nous.
    Spoiler alert: they don’t.
    OTH this from the Graun feed:

    '“The British people will take no lessons from a prime minister and Conservative party who have sowed the seeds of division for years,” said Sir Ed Davey. “This is the same prime minister who made Suella Braverman his home secretary and Lee Anderson his party’s deputy chairman.

    “If the prime minister is serious about bringing people together, he would call a general election now so that the British public can decide the future of our country.”'
    Sure. But nobody is really listening.

    Not even obvious the Lib Dems tried in this electorate, which they were never likely to win but could have been used to push a broader message nationally.
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    kjhkjh Posts: 10,909
    edited March 1
    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.

    I'm in pub in an armchair in front of a log fire and don't give a hoot about anything.
    I have a common Friday night dilemma. My teenage son’s at a friend’s house, so do I remain sober and below the limit so I can pick him up later? Or book him an Uber.
    Been there, done that. They have both left home now so I don't care anymore. Sadly then getting a dog brings commitments but seeing as my wife and dog have gone to our holiday home and I haven't I am in the don't care mode once more.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,562
    edited March 1
    Nugget from a new book.

    Stay Starmer and Keep on Time Trialling.

    Yes, it's him.

    Dig the Volvo 240 Estate (I think). Very 1970s Surrey.
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    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Terrifying that on any other Friday night I'd be where that Clapham Common alleged "shooting" has taken place.
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    CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,269
    Anyway, wearing my Legal Feminist hat, I wrote this piece - and yes it is deliberately provocative, as well as accurate. (It is an updated version with additional examples of a Twitter thread and post here yesterday.)

    https://www.legalfeminist.org.uk/2024/03/01/what-do-the-following-tell-us/

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    squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,428
    A ghastly prospect of Galloway in the House of Commons and on our airwaves.Even less reason to listen to the News.
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    MJWMJW Posts: 1,527

    On topic - I'm very far from being a supporter of Galloway but it strikes me that targeting different leaflets at different audiences in a seat may not be as novel as some like to pretend. Indeed it might just be good campaigning. Muslim voters were motivated by Gaza and non-Muslims by the A&E (with some cross-over of course). In that way he built a coalition of support strong enough to win. What is new about this? Galloway just did it better in this seat at this time than his opponents. The lesson to the rest has to be that they should up their game. Offer something to the electorate and get your campaign organisation up to speed. Otherwise populists of left and right will thrive. Galloway and Farage are twin cheeks of the same Putin-worshiping arse its just that George is much better at winning Westminster elections.

    I think the point is with Galloway is that he does so in ways that are deliberately dishonest, divisive, and in some cases borderline inciting hatred. Back in 2005 Oona King spoke of how after Galloway ran against her she suddenly found people on doorsteps repeating odd rumours based on the Jewish part of her background that obviously weren't appearing more widely and in English language conversations or materials.

    Emphasising different parts of your platform - fine. Running an entirely different campaign in different parts of a constituency designed to incite people against each other, not so much.

    It's also worth noting that Galloway is good at it as he's shameless and doesn't have to deal with wider fallout - if Labour or the Tories ran a Gallowayesque campaign these days, they'd rightly be castigated and the reputational damage huge. Phil Woolas did in 2010 and was rightly admonished and booted out of parliament.

    However, if all you care about is being a parasite that invades the host constituency for long enough to get you back to prominence, then you can use whatever nastiness you want, safe in the knowledge that any consequences will be too late to stop you getting what you wanted.

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    Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 26,184
    I am finding this big kerfuffle over Galloway and Palestine and Rishi dusting down his big podium a bit tedious really. If it's so bad, shut up about it and stop giving Galloway free publicity you little twerp.
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    OnlyLivingBoyOnlyLivingBoy Posts: 15,446
    AlsoLei said:

    Much of the speech was generic platitude, but there was a section where he started talking about people's views of history etc. that got very anti-woke. Is there a possibility that his new framework will get overly censorious?

    Talking about our country being defined by sacrifice was certainly playing on authoritarian right tropes, as was "when they say that Britain has been on the wrong side of history, we should reject it and reject it again", and that it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.
    Is it surprising that someone who went to Winchester thinks the system isn't rigged against them? What a load of shite. The system is rigged against many children.
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    MattWMattW Posts: 19,562
    edited March 1

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
    It may not be for long.

    Canals are now having their public funding salami sliced year by year by Short-Term Rishi.

    I was amazed when I found out that the Canal and River Trust gets £200m a year or so, and views its main stakeholders/beneficiaries as 30,000 boaters not the larger public or towpath users.

    And they are barriered off to mobility aids ... everywhere. And often kept to "one fat labrador" width for the sake of a weltanschauung that came off a 1970s chocolate box. In 1910 two fat boat-horses could pass each other on most of these.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,480
    edited March 1
    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
    It may not be for long.

    Canals are now having their public funding salami sliced year by year by Short-Term Rishi.

    I was amazed when I found out that the Canal and River Trust gets £200m a year or so, and views its main stakeholders/beneficiaries as 30,000 boaters not the larger public or towpath users.

    And they are barriered off to mobility aids ... everywhere. And often kept to "one fat labrador" width for the sake of a weltanschauung that came off a 1970s chocolate box. In 1910 two fat boat-horses could pass each other on most of these.

    >As I understand it, most of their funding used to come from selling off land. Perhaps they’ve finally run out.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,276
    Stocky said:

    Roger said:

    Well done Rochdale. You paint a dismal picture but I'm sure it's deserved. My only brush with the town was when I was asked to do an LP sleeve for a long forgotten band called MUD.

    Their record company had the bright idea of photographing them in front of a satanic mill as the workers came pouring out in flat caps gesticulating and shouting abuse. Sort of Lowryesque with a vintage Rolls in the foreground.....unfortunately the workers didn't come out on bicycles or on foot and they weren't angry so it was back to London empty handed

    Mud - as in Tiger Feet?
    The very same. You've got a good memory
  • Options
    TresTres Posts: 2,349
    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
    It may not be for long.

    Canals are now having their public funding salami sliced year by year by Short-Term Rishi.

    I was amazed when I found out that the Canal and River Trust gets £200m a year or so, and views its main stakeholders/beneficiaries as 30,000 boaters not the larger public or towpath users.

    And they are barriered off to mobility aids ... everywhere. And often kept to "one fat labrador" width for the sake of a weltanschauung that came off a 1970s chocolate box. In 1910 two fat boat-horses could pass each other on most of these.
    >As I understand it, most of their funding used to come from selling off land. Perhaps they’ve finally run out.

    Same old tories, cutting everything except boomer pensions
  • Options
    kamskikamski Posts: 4,371

    I am finding this big kerfuffle over Galloway and Palestine and Rishi dusting down his big podium a bit tedious really. If it's so bad, shut up about it and stop giving Galloway free publicity you little twerp.

    I agree, best ignoref. But it's in Sunak's interest to promote Galloway - and hope it costs Labour some support.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,003
    kle4 said:


    Sunak's a muppet.

    Oddly proportioned, controlled by unseen others, hyperactive, and not as popular as he used to be?
    He did make a good Christmas movie, so the evidence is accumulating...
  • Options
    OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 32,403

    .

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
    Used to live beside Hollingworth Lake, just outside Rochdale in Littleborough. Really nice place to live, with lovely walks.
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,480
    edited March 1
    Tres said:

    carnforth said:

    MattW said:

    Leon said:

    Cookie said:

    I know Rochdale reasonably well. Strapline: at least we're not Oldham.

    The Northwest is full of struggling post-industrial towns, but there are a handful which are doing ok-ish. Stockport. Bury. Warrington. Preston, at a push.
    I'd struggle to think of any more.

    Doesn't it depress you, all the rubbish towns?
    The country is broken. I keep pointing this out. Massive structural issues in the economy which go back decades and transcend the Lab/Con duopoly. The towns are rubbish because we had this stupid idea of bulldozing so much of what made them unique to build ugly anonymous concrete things. With the old jobs gone and no investment in anything.

    Rochdale should be one of the places that wins. Beautiful Pennines setting combined with proximity to Manchester and good transport links. Industrial heritage, a proud local (Lancastrian) culture. But instead its got a gutted town centre and congested roads that make it hard to get anywhere, with crumbling relics of factories and victorian warehouses.
    The Rochdale Canal is gorgeous.

    Apart from the bit through Rochdale. (And Newton Heath, but that goes without saying.)
    It may not be for long.

    Canals are now having their public funding salami sliced year by year by Short-Term Rishi.

    I was amazed when I found out that the Canal and River Trust gets £200m a year or so, and views its main stakeholders/beneficiaries as 30,000 boaters not the larger public or towpath users.

    And they are barriered off to mobility aids ... everywhere. And often kept to "one fat labrador" width for the sake of a weltanschauung that came off a 1970s chocolate box. In 1910 two fat boat-horses could pass each other on most of these.
    >As I understand it, most of their funding used to come from selling off land. Perhaps they’ve finally run out.
    >Same old tories, cutting everything except boomer pensions

    Nah. Selling off unneeded land next to canals to build flats improves the area, and builds homes.

    (Vanilla quote is broken)
  • Options
    MoonRabbitMoonRabbit Posts: 13,147
    edited March 1
    The more I’ve thought about it, I think Rishi’s apparently trivial “I will save us all from all this nasty division” Sermonette to us could become quite important to the history’s written of this election year.

    Much the same way as infamy of John Major’s Back to Basic’s reference in political history, Sunak might just have unleashed a rod of thorns for his and the Conservative Party’s own back.

    From now, anything from him or his party, that stokes or exploits division, is going to be mercilessly leapt on as disgusting hypocrisy.

    That’s 100% of the counter attack on woke - references to Starmer not knowing what is a woman, the language used about boat crossings and immigration in every single Conservative election leaflet, every article Braverman or any Tory writes for a newspaper and every interview any of them give, cannot now contain anything that allows opponents and media to yell “Go and then Sunak, put action where your mouth is - act!”

    Before you dismiss this as nothing this evening, Sunak may just have made one very serious political blunder.
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 15,340
    edited March 1
    kamski said:

    I am finding this big kerfuffle over Galloway and Palestine and Rishi dusting down his big podium a bit tedious really. If it's so bad, shut up about it and stop giving Galloway free publicity you little twerp.

    I agree, best ignoref. But it's in Sunak's interest to promote Galloway - and hope it costs Labour some support.
    Has that worked, though?

    We started the day talking about Starmer's problems, and now Rishi's Strange Speech has superimposed itself on the news agenda.

    Has he heard of never interrupting your opponent when things are going badly for them?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.

    I'm in pub in an armchair in front of a log fire and don't give a hoot about anything.
    I have a common Friday night dilemma. My teenage son’s at a friend’s house, so do I remain sober and below the limit so I can pick him up later? Or book him an Uber.
    Been there, done that. They have both left home now so I don't care anymore. Sadly then getting a dog brings commitments but seeing as my wife and dog have gone to our holiday home and I haven't I am in the don't care mode once more.
    I'm also Home Alone (wife in Malaysia). Sitting here in the front room having a vape and a bowl of midget gems. It's not a bad life.
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 21,097
    That Sunak thing is weird.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,688
    Jonathan said:

    That Sunak thing is weird.

    There's a reason for that.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,046
    @RochdalePioneers

    George won fair and square, did he not?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,875
    Jonathan said:

    That Sunak thing is weird.

    Yes, odd use of the Downing St podium.
  • Options
    Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 50,046

    The more I’ve thought about it, I think Rishi’s apparently trivial “I will save us all from all this nasty division” Sermonette to us could become quite important to the history’s written of this election year.

    Much the same way as infamy of John Major’s Back to Basic’s reference in political history, Sunak might just have unleashed a rod of thorns for his and the Conservative Party’s own back.

    From now, anything from him or his party, that stokes or exploits division, is going to be mercilessly leapt on as disgusting hypocrisy.

    That’s 100% of the counter attack on woke - references to Starmer not knowing what is a woman, the language used about boat crossings and immigration in every single Conservative election leaflet, every article Braverman or any Tory writes for a newspaper and every interview any of them give, cannot now contain anything that allows opponents and media to yell “Go and then Sunak, put action where your mouth is - act!”

    Before you dismiss this as nothing this evening, Sunak may just have made one very serious political blunder.

    Rishi is just as much an Islamophobe as his mentor, one Narendra Modi.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783



    kamski said:

    I am finding this big kerfuffle over Galloway and Palestine and Rishi dusting down his big podium a bit tedious really. If it's so bad, shut up about it and stop giving Galloway free publicity you little twerp.

    I agree, best ignoref. But it's in Sunak's interest to promote Galloway - and hope it costs Labour some support.
    Has that worked, though?

    We started the day talking about Starmer's problems, and now Rishi's Strange Speech has superimposed itself on the news agenda.

    Has he heard of never interrupting your opponent when things are going badly for them?
    Exactly right. The best thing for the conservatives over the next few months is to be as invisible as possible. Every time they insert themselves into the story they just remind everyone they exist, and that can only be harmful to them.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,172
    edited March 1
    Sunak's address - Is he gearing up for a "Who governs Britain" election in May?

    Worked out so well for Ted didn't it? ;)
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,111
    Excellent and thoughtful article @RochdalePioneers about a rather bleak subject matter

    Sadly for places like Rochdale I cannot see any future apart from more of the same

    Nowadays in large urban conurbations the main focus seems to be the nearest big city to the detriment of the towns surrounding it.

    The sad reality of places like Rochdale is the likes of labour did nothing for them and neither did the Tories and local politicians just play the blame game. To which we get a vacuum which gets filled.

    It’s all very sad.
  • Options
    FoxyFoxy Posts: 46,003

    @RochdalePioneers

    George won fair and square, did he not?

    He did indeed.

    We should think on why the voters of Rochdale went for him.

    Perhaps they have a point worth listening to.
  • Options
    agingjb2agingjb2 Posts: 96
    Civil Contingencies Act coming up? Election delayed indefinitely?
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 49,191

    The more I’ve thought about it, I think Rishi’s apparently trivial “I will save us all from all this nasty division” Sermonette to us could become quite important to the history’s written of this election year.

    Much the same way as infamy of John Major’s Back to Basic’s reference in political history, Sunak might just have unleashed a rod of thorns for his and the Conservative Party’s own back.

    From now, anything from him or his party, that stokes or exploits division, is going to be mercilessly leapt on as disgusting hypocrisy.

    That’s 100% of the counter attack on woke - references to Starmer not knowing what is a woman, the language used about boat crossings and immigration in every single Conservative election leaflet, every article Braverman or any Tory writes for a newspaper and every interview any of them give, cannot now contain anything that allows opponents and media to yell “Go and then Sunak, put action where your mouth is - act!”

    Before you dismiss this as nothing this evening, Sunak may just have made one very serious political blunder.

    Rishi is just as much an Islamophobe as his mentor, one Narendra Modi.
    What makes you call Narendra Modi his mentor?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380

    George Parker
    @GeorgeWParker

    Not sure if it’s the new YouGov poll giving Labour a 26-point lead, but there’s growing chat at Westminster that next week’s Budget could herald a May election. Crazy? “Beyond May I see only risks,” says one Tory insider. No10 sources insist they are still working to autumn.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1763637594976305422
  • Options
    TazTaz Posts: 12,111
    edited March 1
    Roger said:

    Stocky said:

    Roger said:

    Well done Rochdale. You paint a dismal picture but I'm sure it's deserved. My only brush with the town was when I was asked to do an LP sleeve for a long forgotten band called MUD.

    Their record company had the bright idea of photographing them in front of a satanic mill as the workers came pouring out in flat caps gesticulating and shouting abuse. Sort of Lowryesque with a vintage Rolls in the foreground.....unfortunately the workers didn't come out on bicycles or on foot and they weren't angry so it was back to London empty handed

    Mud - as in Tiger Feet?
    The very same. You've got a good memory
    Long forgotten. Nope. Still very fondly remembered and Les Gray toured really until he died. Ray Stiles has been Hollies bassist since the eighties. The camp drummer one Co wrote that Kylie Minogue hit from the nineties can’t get you out of my head with, IIRC, Debbie Gibson.

    Les Gray and Mud also appeared in a green cross code ad.
  • Options
    No_Offence_AlanNo_Offence_Alan Posts: 4,060

    AlsoLei said:

    Much of the speech was generic platitude, but there was a section where he started talking about people's views of history etc. that got very anti-woke. Is there a possibility that his new framework will get overly censorious?

    Talking about our country being defined by sacrifice was certainly playing on authoritarian right tropes, as was "when they say that Britain has been on the wrong side of history, we should reject it and reject it again", and that it's a racist lie to "tell children that the system is rigged against them", etc., etc.
    Is it surprising that someone who went to Winchester thinks the system isn't rigged against them? What a load of shite. The system is rigged against many children.
    Of course it was rigged against him , he didn't go to Eton.
  • Options
    Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 7,934
    GIN1138 said:

    Sunak's address - Is he gearing up for a "Who governs Britain" election in May?

    Worked out so well for Ted didn't it? ;)

    You're not crediting Sunak with having an actual strategy, are you?
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 28,043

    @RochdalePioneers

    George won fair and square, did he not?

    Sure! Even the suggestion of lots of postals is legal. And with the further inference that certain groups did block postal votes - that is something the Tories left open with their idiotic voter ID only for in-person voting law.

    Even if there was a block vote, hoovering up Pakistani and Kashmiri heritage votes, it’s hardly unique to this by-election.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783
    Foxy said:

    kinabalu said:

    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    kjh said:

    TimS said:

    In commemoration of today’s momentous events I’m having Lancashire hotpot for dinner.

    I'm in pub in an armchair in front of a log fire and don't give a hoot about anything.
    I have a common Friday night dilemma. My teenage son’s at a friend’s house, so do I remain sober and below the limit so I can pick him up later? Or book him an Uber.
    Been there, done that. They have both left home now so I don't care anymore. Sadly then getting a dog brings commitments but seeing as my wife and dog have gone to our holiday home and I haven't I am in the don't care mode once more.
    I'm also Home Alone (wife in Malaysia). Sitting here in the front room having a vape and a bowl of midget gems. It's not a bad life.
    Girls night out tonight. Me and the pup on the sofa watching Blazing Saddles. All's right with the world.
    I’m home alone but with daughter. Wife is driving down to our French house with furniture, paint (much cheaper in Britain), light fittings (also much cheaper here), and the actual kitchen sink. Son at friend’s. Daughter on the iPad talking to her cousin.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783


    George Parker
    @GeorgeWParker

    Not sure if it’s the new YouGov poll giving Labour a 26-point lead, but there’s growing chat at Westminster that next week’s Budget could herald a May election. Crazy? “Beyond May I see only risks,” says one Tory insider. No10 sources insist they are still working to autumn.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1763637594976305422

    I think it’s quite likely. Do it while Gaza is still a big issue and Galloway is spouting off, and there’s the maximum opportunity to stoke division. The very last thing the Tories want the election to be about is bread and butter issues like the economy or public services.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,380


    George Parker
    @GeorgeWParker

    Not sure if it’s the new YouGov poll giving Labour a 26-point lead, but there’s growing chat at Westminster that next week’s Budget could herald a May election. Crazy? “Beyond May I see only risks,” says one Tory insider. No10 sources insist they are still working to autumn.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1763637594976305422

    There’s a big argument for cutting and running. Things can only get worse.

    And… Sunny wants to spend the summer in Cali.
  • Options
    TimSTimS Posts: 10,783

    GIN1138 said:

    Sunak's address - Is he gearing up for a "Who governs Britain" election in May?

    Worked out so well for Ted didn't it? ;)

    You're not crediting Sunak with having an actual strategy, are you?
    All it takes in response is an exasperated “the public are sick and tired of this kind of childish nonsense”.
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 59,380
    TimS said:


    George Parker
    @GeorgeWParker

    Not sure if it’s the new YouGov poll giving Labour a 26-point lead, but there’s growing chat at Westminster that next week’s Budget could herald a May election. Crazy? “Beyond May I see only risks,” says one Tory insider. No10 sources insist they are still working to autumn.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1763637594976305422

    I think it’s quite likely. Do it while Gaza is still a big issue and Galloway is spouting off, and there’s the maximum opportunity to stoke division. The very last thing the Tories want the election to be about is bread and butter issues like the economy or public services.
    Plus far more boats coming this summer.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 21,380
    MattW said:

    Nugget from a new book.

    Stay Starmer and Keep on Time Trialling.

    Yes, it's him.

    Campaigning for the @Dura_Ace vote?
  • Options
    eekeek Posts: 25,919


    George Parker
    @GeorgeWParker

    Not sure if it’s the new YouGov poll giving Labour a 26-point lead, but there’s growing chat at Westminster that next week’s Budget could herald a May election. Crazy? “Beyond May I see only risks,” says one Tory insider. No10 sources insist they are still working to autumn.

    https://twitter.com/GeorgeWParker/status/1763637594976305422

    There’s a big argument for cutting and running. Things can only get worse.

    And… Sunny wants to spend the summer in Cali.
    polling 20%, 26% behind Labour and all evidence shows it's going to get worse.... Which one of Bozo, Truss and Rishi destroyed the conservative party?
  • Options
    MattWMattW Posts: 19,562
    Cyclefree said:

    For @Leon and his daughter -

    "Her passion is Classics. Totally pointless, totally non vocational, but she REALLY likes it. I've told her to go for that. Better to spend three years having intellectual fun, and let the future go hang, there's a 40% chance the computers will turn us all into pets by 2033, anyway"

    I have seen enough people who became lawyers or accountants or whatever because they felt they ought to / family pressure / a good career etc but who had no real passion for it and then became burnt out. I did not study law. I have always felt - both about education and work - that you must try and do something that at some level you really love and enjoy. All work can be a pain in the arse at times but so long as you have that spark to keep you going then it's worth it.

    My daughter had a passion for classics and loved her degree in it. She is now working in something completely unrelated but her ability to think and critique intelligently is what she learnt and is using and she still enjoys the subject. Our holiday together a few years back as she took me round Pompeii and other classical sites and REALLY told me what you don't get in guidebooks will remain one of my most treasured memories. And hers, I hope.

    When the financial crisis was at its height I remember my US boss - a typical hard-nosed lawyer - asking me with incredulity why my daughter was studying the classics. I looked at him and said: "You don't think the study of hubris has anything to teach us, then?" He laughed and didn't reply.

    I don't know much - well nothing - about AI. But jobs involving human contact and empathy - precisely what is not valued now and what cannot be replaced by machines - is what, if I had to guess, will still be needed and will be all the more valuable in a world of chatbots / robots and algos.

    Days without laughter or passion, preferably both, are days wasted.

    Very true.

    And Pompeii has Low Traffic Neighbourhoods and Modal Filters !

    Stone bollards to keep horse drawn carts out of the forum.


This discussion has been closed.