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You get what you vote for – politicalbetting.com

SystemSystem Posts: 11,736
edited March 12 in General
You get what you vote for – politicalbetting.com

Following his by-election win, George Galloway has compared himself to Cristiano Ronaldo. presumably because the Middle East is the only thing keeping both their careers going pic.twitter.com/XxQWWbiQOh

Read the full story here

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Comments

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    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Paul Waugh on Galloway & Rochdale… Is this an early campaign leaflet?

    https://inews.co.uk/opinion/furious-rochdale-result-labour-candidate-paul-waugh-2934742
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,348
    With any luck, they won't get him for very long.
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    edited March 1
    Nigelb said:

    With any luck, they won't get him for very long.

    Might be time for the Tories to go to the country, Labour's campaign could be in a bit of disarray as others here have pointed out. A 97 type result may be in reach for Sunak.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    edited March 1
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6ZDP8UhPys

    It woz Galloway's campaign video wot won it
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    viewcode said:

    Americans are obsessed with bathrooms.
    You get pitying looks unless you have at least three.

    Pah. Wusses. You haven't lived until you've been in an outside bog with one leg wedged against the door, shouting "I'm in the toilet" when people walk past, and entertaining yourself with imagining moonscapes out of the damp peeling plaster that a bloke your dad knew slapped on for a few quid, then trying to wipe your bum with damp toilet paper.
    You used toilet paper? Not strips of old newspaper?

    Strips iof old newspaper? Luxury!!! We had to settle for grasping a passing hedgehog
    You 'ad 'edgehogs!!!!!?

    Luuuuuuxuuury!
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,348
    Who is David Tully ?

    https://www.mancunianmatters.co.uk/news/01032024-david-tully-who-is-the-surprise-dark-horse-of-the-rochdale-by-election/

    https://www.rochdaleonline.co.uk/news-features/elections/election-pitch/1743/david-tully

    Also, 4.9 out of 5 for his car repair business on Google reviews.

    (And didn't realise he was entitled to a free election mail shot.)
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    With any luck, they won't get him for very long.

    Might be time for the Tories to go to the country, Labour's campaign could be in a bit of disarray as others here have pointed out. A 97 type result may be in reach for Sunak.
    How many Galloways can you clone in 6 weeks? Anyone got the phone number for Kamino?
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,348

    Sorry it was a bit long. That was the edited version of the original rant...

    I'm just waiting for Leon to AI it to music.
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    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,335
    Galloway's party will have a chance where the Muslim vote is well above average like Rochdale if the Gaza conflict is still going on by the next election but few other areas beyond that
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.
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    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,244
    Good article @RochdalePioneers , thank you.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,348
    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."
  • Options
    ChrisChris Posts: 11,153
    There is an alternative view. Perhaps the electorate was partly taking the opportunity to condemn something which - for electoral reasons - the mainstream parties would rather avoid commenting on.

    Electoral calculations often don't lead to wise decisions, but they are certainly dominating political decision-making at the moment.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,610
    Nice piece. I don't agree with the last bit, that said. "the continuing decline of British politics".

    That's on us. We the voters determine the nature of British politics so blaming some kind of nebulous "system" which is in decline.

    It's us, all us.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,348

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale*, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    There are a lot of places "well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb" to Leeds and Manchester.
    With better transport infrastructure that might even become a reality one day.

    (*I used got go to a climbing gym there a decade or so back.)
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,479

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    I grew up in the east of the borough, nestled in Pennine foothills with Blackstone Edge looming behind. Beautiful surroundings, but terribly run down. It seems to have been left behind even compared to neighbouring run-down towns such as Oldham and Bury.
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    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,745

    Sorry it was a bit long. That was the edited version of the original rant...

    Not at all- it all needs saying, so it was just the right length.

    And there's this terrible combination of the awful things done to left-behind places and the awful things they do (at some level) to themselves. And that makes the problems very hard to fix.
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    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,603
    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    TOPPING said:

    Nice piece. I don't agree with the last bit, that said. "the continuing decline of British politics".

    That's on us. We the voters determine the nature of British politics so blaming some kind of nebulous "system" which is in decline.

    It's us, all us.

    Things were better in the Goode Olde Days. Proper respect, proper plagues killed people proper. None of this furrin COVID lark. Weak as piss, that. Proper Black Death and Sweating Sickness is what was good enough for me forebearers, an's good enough for me.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited March 1
    Labour’s election material in Batley & Spen


  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,603

    viewcode said:

    Americans are obsessed with bathrooms.
    You get pitying looks unless you have at least three.

    Pah. Wusses. You haven't lived until you've been in an outside bog with one leg wedged against the door, shouting "I'm in the toilet" when people walk past, and entertaining yourself with imagining moonscapes out of the damp peeling plaster that a bloke your dad knew slapped on for a few quid, then trying to wipe your bum with damp toilet paper.
    You used toilet paper? Not strips of old newspaper?

    Strips iof old newspaper? Luxury!!! We had to settle for grasping a passing hedgehog
    You 'ad 'edgehogs!!!!!?

    Luuuuuuxuuury!
    I seem to remember a song recounted in Pratchett's books that suggested it was not possible to 'ave 'edgehogs
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    What a moron
  • Options
    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054
    Nigelb said:

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale*, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    There are a lot of places "well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb" to Leeds and Manchester.
    With better transport infrastructure that might even become a reality one day.

    (*I used got go to a climbing gym there a decade or so back.)
    It's quite a way from Leeds, and there's lots of competition for Manchester commuting suburbs - specifically I'd have thought Oldham & Heywood would likely gentrify before Rochdale if Manchester was to up it's city GDP significantly.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    The Mad Evul Capitalist in me says to make a pitch to the government to drop a car factory plus attached battery factories on the place, in return for no tax for about 20 years.

    Then get rich flogging new houses to the people working at the factory.

    Anyone who objects can get a foundational position in the factory.

    This is probably why I shouldn't be absolute dictator of Britain.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,244

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    With any luck, they won't get him for very long.

    Might be time for the Tories to go to the country, Labour's campaign could be in a bit of disarray as others here have pointed out. A 97 type result may be in reach for Sunak.
    How many Galloways can you clone in 6 weeks? Anyone got the phone number for Kamino?
    I think they've been closed for some time. What with being long ago in a galaxy far, far away... :)
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,244
    Selebian said:

    viewcode said:

    Americans are obsessed with bathrooms.
    You get pitying looks unless you have at least three.

    Pah. Wusses. You haven't lived until you've been in an outside bog with one leg wedged against the door, shouting "I'm in the toilet" when people walk past, and entertaining yourself with imagining moonscapes out of the damp peeling plaster that a bloke your dad knew slapped on for a few quid, then trying to wipe your bum with damp toilet paper.
    You used toilet paper? Not strips of old newspaper?

    Strips iof old newspaper? Luxury!!! We had to settle for grasping a passing hedgehog
    You 'ad 'edgehogs!!!!!?

    Luuuuuuxuuury!
    I seem to remember a song recounted in Pratchett's books that suggested it was not possible to 'ave 'edgehogs
    Apparently the 'edgehog cannot be bugg[Yes, we know - Ed]
  • Options
    AlsoLeiAlsoLei Posts: 828
    HYUFD said:

    Galloway's party will have a chance where the Muslim vote is well above average like Rochdale if the Gaza conflict is still going on by the next election but few other areas beyond that

    Is there not also potential for explicitly pro-Palestine candidates to also pick up a seat or two in studenty areas of the sort where the Lib Dems did well in the wake of the Iraq war?

    I'm thinking of seats like Sheffield Central, or the new Leeds Central and Headingley. Both have plenty of Muslim voters, but not enough to swing a result by themselves.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale*, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    There are a lot of places "well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb" to Leeds and Manchester.
    With better transport infrastructure that might even become a reality one day.

    (*I used got go to a climbing gym there a decade or so back.)
    It's quite a way from Leeds, and there's lots of competition for Manchester commuting suburbs - specifically I'd have thought Oldham & Heywood would likely gentrify before Rochdale if Manchester was to up it's city GDP significantly.
    Both are on Metrolink which at least gives them potential as commuter suburbs to Manchester.

    As you say, it’s nowhere near Leeds really.
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    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,276

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    The Mad Evul Capitalist in me says to make a pitch to the government to drop a car factory plus attached battery factories on the place, in return for no tax for about 20 years.

    Then get rich flogging new houses to the people working at the factory.

    Anyone who objects can get a foundational position in the factory.

    This is probably why I shouldn't be absolute dictator of Britain.
    Hopefully this cheers up Bridgwater a bit:

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/feb/28/tata-confirms-somerset-battery-factory-bridgwater

    Lovely situation for transport and so on, but very grimy these days.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    viewcode said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    With any luck, they won't get him for very long.

    Might be time for the Tories to go to the country, Labour's campaign could be in a bit of disarray as others here have pointed out. A 97 type result may be in reach for Sunak.
    How many Galloways can you clone in 6 weeks? Anyone got the phone number for Kamino?
    I think they've been closed for some time. What with being long ago in a galaxy far, far away... :)
    There's always this guy - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j93TtUdpVGw&t=40s
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
  • Options
    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,479
    AlsoLei said:

    HYUFD said:

    Galloway's party will have a chance where the Muslim vote is well above average like Rochdale if the Gaza conflict is still going on by the next election but few other areas beyond that

    Is there not also potential for explicitly pro-Palestine candidates to also pick up a seat or two in studenty areas of the sort where the Lib Dems did well in the wake of the Iraq war?

    I'm thinking of seats like Sheffield Central, or the new Leeds Central and Headingley. Both have plenty of Muslim voters, but not enough to swing a result by themselves.
    My rationale in the thread was simple: People vote for Galloway but not whatever party label he is running on. Lets assume that the Workers Party of Britain finds a candidate for Sheffield Central. The candidate will not be Galloway - where is the appeal?
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,822
    Remember folks, qualifying for the F1 starts at 4pm today, because of Islam :innocent:
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    PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 76,054

    AlsoLei said:

    HYUFD said:

    Galloway's party will have a chance where the Muslim vote is well above average like Rochdale if the Gaza conflict is still going on by the next election but few other areas beyond that

    Is there not also potential for explicitly pro-Palestine candidates to also pick up a seat or two in studenty areas of the sort where the Lib Dems did well in the wake of the Iraq war?

    I'm thinking of seats like Sheffield Central, or the new Leeds Central and Headingley. Both have plenty of Muslim voters, but not enough to swing a result by themselves.
    My rationale in the thread was simple: People vote for Galloway but not whatever party label he is running on. Lets assume that the Workers Party of Britain finds a candidate for Sheffield Central. The candidate will not be Galloway - where is the appeal?
    Where do you think they'll run Williamson ?

    Hodge Hill or Bradford West perhaps ?
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    eekeek Posts: 25,147
    CatMan said:

    Remember folks, qualifying for the F1 starts at 4pm today, because of Islam :innocent:

    Yep Ramadan starts on March 10th so next weeks race is on the 9th to ensure it's before it. Which means this weeks race is tomorrow to give a week between races..

    I can't see the problem really...
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    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881
    Excellent piece, Rochdale

    (You can really write, btw)

    What saddens me about this is that the same story could surely be written of two dozen British towns, at least. And I don't think they will ever get better, in my lifetime, unless AI performs a miracle (because Labour or the Tories certainly won't)

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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,822
    This been posted yet?

    https://x.com/WhatScotsThink/status/1763505188944351241?s=20

    "New @Survation poll for @Quantum_Comms

    SNP 38 (+2)
    Lab 33 (-1)
    Con 15 (-1)
    LD 8 (n/c).

    Fwork 14-20.2 (ch since 23-25.1).
    "
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    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,484

    Sorry it was a bit long. That was the edited version of the original rant...

    I found it excellent especially with my father family connections to the town
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    CatManCatMan Posts: 2,822
    eek said:

    CatMan said:

    Remember folks, qualifying for the F1 starts at 4pm today, because of Islam :innocent:

    Yep Ramadan starts on March 10th so next weeks race is on the 9th to ensure it's before it. Which means this weeks race is tomorrow to give a week between races..

    I can't see the problem really...
    It's political wokeness gone insane, or something
  • Options
    Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 60,484

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    What a moron
    Certainly eccentric
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890

    Pulpstar said:

    Nigelb said:

    Great piece, RP.

    I’ve never been to Rochdale*, and doubt I ever will.
    In theory though, it’s nestled nicely into the Pennines and is well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb for both Manchester and Leeds.

    I presume the housing stock is v poor, and the place has been de-invested to fuck. And brand “Rochdale” is about as bad as it gets.

    Sad.

    There are a lot of places "well-situated to be a prosperous commuting suburb" to Leeds and Manchester.
    With better transport infrastructure that might even become a reality one day.

    (*I used got go to a climbing gym there a decade or so back.)
    It's quite a way from Leeds, and there's lots of competition for Manchester commuting suburbs - specifically I'd have thought Oldham & Heywood would likely gentrify before Rochdale if Manchester was to up it's city GDP significantly.
    Both are on Metrolink which at least gives them potential as commuter suburbs to Manchester.

    As you say, it’s nowhere near Leeds really.
    At the risk of sounding like HYUFD, it’s less than 40 minutes into Huddersfield, which is in “Greater Leeds”.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881
    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving
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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,479
    With regards to commuting to Leeds - the Pennines are a barrier. Remember this is a west-facing community. Most storms come in off the Atlantic and the highest thing they hit is that Pennine ridge I talked about.

    What that means is that in the winter the weather can be fun! The M62 gets shut down by snow. More people commute west than east. And with respect to the town an awful lot of people don't commute that far...
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    Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 2,783

    Sorry it was a bit long. That was the edited version of the original rant...

    I found it excellent especially with my father family connections to the town
    My parents were so skint their idea of a summer holiday was to spend a few days with in-laws in Rochdale. Same dead-end poverty, but a different view across the street to almost identical council houses. On one occasion we rambled along Toad Lane and it was explained to me how the Cooperative movement had started there. "So effing what?" I might have replied, but even as a six-year old I'd learned to be more circumspect. I later discovered that "Toad" in this context was local dialect for 'the old' and nothing whatsoever to do with herpetofauna. Even that source of potential interest was choked off.
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    bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 8,090
    FPT:
    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    sarissa said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:



    Just come around here - there're loads of Chinese moving into Cambourne West. Most from Hong Kong, I believe. I've chatted to a fair few of them, and they're all lovely. Although some seem a little shellshocked at life over here...

    Snipped as the convo was getting a bit unwieldy.

    Are you near all the new housebuilding going on ex Cambridge environs ? Anecdotally it seems like a staggering amount of building going on, more than anywhere else in England probably.
    Yep. I can hear some of the diggers going crunch-crunch-crunch now, from my study. They're building not far off. Cambourne currently has 4,250 houses.

    We have at least three major developments being built:
    *) Cambourne West (2,350 houses)
    *) Waterbeach New Town (6,500 houses)
    *) Northstowe (11,000 houses)

    As well as this, it is expected that the old Bourn airfield site, immediately to the east of Cambourne, will be built upon - perhaps 3,500 homes. And there is talk of houses (perhaps 10,000) on the area immediately to the north, over the dual carriageway. And the (Lib Dem) council wants to squeeze 250 extra homes on land that was zoned to be used by business. That's the only scheme I'm against.

    There's also the new developments at St Neots:
    *) Wintrigham (2,800 houses)
    *) Monksfield - just being started (1,020 houses)

    The latter is hilariously named - it is eight miles away from us, and we already have a 'Monkfield' school, a 'Monkfield' doctor's surgery, a 'Monkfield' pub, etc, etc. Calling the new development 'Monksfield' is going to cause all sorts of hilarity...
    I note what looks like a roughly 100 m2 currently cgi 4 bed detached is going for £570k... will people be able to afford that sort of price ?

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134203304#/?channel=RES_NEW

    You'd probably want to be earning £190k or so between a couple to be comfortable with that I'd imagine.
    Going on the dimensions it's around 110-115 sqm afaics.

    I think one question is the usual one - how many will be buying that as their first house? I suggest most will need to fund the difference.

    FTB status giving exemption from Stamp Duty may help.

    There also seem to be some cashbacks (I make it 7k) available, which is interesting. Developers are trying to protect the headline price.

    Are FTB government-subsidy schemes still operating?
    Incentives in toto look to be just under 5%,

    As a comparator, one of those on a posher suburb of Nottingham - West Bridgford, which is Ken Clarke country, is on at £530k.
    https://www.bovishomes.co.uk/developments/nottinghamshire/edwalton-fields-nottingham/home-3020

    One of the toilets should probably be storage. Lord knows why developers these days seem to think a small 4 bed needs 3 bogs.
    Building Regs require a WC and basin room on the ground floor for impaired mobility users, and the en-suite for the master bedroom is de rigeur.
    I do wonder how many people @Pulpstar thinks are going to be living in such a property - 1 bathroom shared between 3 bedrooms, in the morning?
    2 bathrooms ;)
    1 ensuite for 1 bedroom
    1 bathroom for the other three

    That doesn't sound very generous to me.
    Is it an absolute act of faith that a master bedroom, no matter how poxy requires an en-suite these days rather than say a walk in wardrobe ?
    I need an en suite, as the cat prefers to drink out of the sink than using her water fountain, or her other water fountain.


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    RochdalePioneersRochdalePioneers Posts: 27,479
    One thing that keeps circulating on TwiX is an allegation that postal votes were 2/3rds of all ballots cast. With Galloway winning at a canter the suggestion is fraud - patriarchs completing the postal vote for all members of the family. Which I know from past experience is absolutely something which gets organised at the mosque...
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    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    a
    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    Channeling William the Barsteward is not the best plan.
  • Options
    SelebianSelebian Posts: 7,603

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    edited March 1
    Leon said:

    Excellent piece, Rochdale

    (You can really write, btw)

    What saddens me about this is that the same story could surely be written of two dozen British towns, at least. And I don't think they will ever get better, in my lifetime, unless AI performs a miracle (because Labour or the Tories certainly won't)

    Two dozen? At least.

    It’s a great national tragedy, and seems just a permanent and permanently-accepted feature of British life.

    Like corruption in Italy, gun laws in the US, and the schoolgirl knicker fetish in Japan.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881

    a

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    Channeling William the Barsteward is not the best plan.
    We don't have to harry the north, just kick everyone out and reintroduce wolves, lynx and bears
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,703
    edited March 1
    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    People moved around massively in previous generations. These towns exist because of the factories that were built in the past, but are long since gone.

    Make it easier for people to move to where there is work, and shrink the places people leave behind so that they work for a more sustainable smaller size.

    For example, if you build huge amounts of social housing in places like Cambridge, Milton Keynes, etc, then people with social housing tenancies in places like Rochdale will be able to transfer their tenancy to somewhere they can also find a better job.

    We shouldn't regard the population distribution created by the Industrial Revolution as something we have to preserve for ever.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    One thing that keeps circulating on TwiX is an allegation that postal votes were 2/3rds of all ballots cast. With Galloway winning at a canter the suggestion is fraud - patriarchs completing the postal vote for all members of the family. Which I know from past experience is absolutely something which gets organised at the mosque...

    Interestingly, in a previous Galloway election, it was stated/rumoured that it had gone the other way. That younger family members had refused to let the patriarchs do their votes *as normal* and had voted for Galloway.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Me too! :D
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Keir Starmer must resign.

    Checks notes.

    26 point lead.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,357
    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    It's absurd that we have net domestic emigration from London while places like that are left to rot.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    edited March 1

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    People moved around massively in previous generations. These towns exist because of the factories that were built in the past, but are long since gone.

    Make it easier for people to move to where there is work, and shrink the places people leave behind so that they work for a more sustainable smaller size.

    For example, if you build huge amounts of social housing in places like Cambridge, Milton Keynes, etc, then people with social housing tenancies in places like Rochdale will be able to transfer their tenancy to somewhere they can also find a better job.

    We shouldn't regard the population distribution created by the Industrial Revolution as something we have to preserve for ever.
    The British system IS to preserve them forever though, via social transfers.

    The irony is that Britain delivers as much - maybe more - in funds to its deprived regions than Germany does to East Germany.

    But instead of productivity-generating infrastructure, it comes in the form of social services and sickness benefits.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    People moved around massively in previous generations. These towns exist because of the factories that were built in the past, but are long since gone.

    Make it easier for people to move to where there is work, and shrink the places people leave behind so that they work for a more sustainable smaller size.

    For example, if you build huge amounts of social housing in places like Cambridge, Milton Keynes, etc, then people with social housing tenancies in places like Rochdale will be able to transfer their tenancy to somewhere they can also find a better job.

    We shouldn't regard the population distribution created by the Industrial Revolution as something we have to preserve for ever.
    The British system IS to preserve them forever though, via social transfers.

    The irony is that Britain delivers as much - maybe more - in funds to its deprived regions than Germany does to East Germany.

    But instead of productivity-generating infrastructure, it comes in the form of social services and sickness benefits.
    hmmmm.....


  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881

    Leon said:

    Excellent piece, Rochdale

    (You can really write, btw)

    What saddens me about this is that the same story could surely be written of two dozen British towns, at least. And I don't think they will ever get better, in my lifetime, unless AI performs a miracle (because Labour or the Tories certainly won't)

    Two dozen? At least.

    It’s a great national tragedy, and seems just a permanent and permanently-accepted feature of British life. Like corruption in Italy, gun laws in the US, and the schoolgirl knicker fetish in Japan.
    The same can be said of a hundred lost little cities in America, esp but not always in the rustbelt, and multiple communities in the Mezzogiorno

    Desperate places with no obvious remedy

    However at least in America there is that sense of freedom, if you live in Shit-hole Indiana, just get in your car and drive south and west. And Italy has the sun which helps - tho it can still be fucking grim even in the sun, in parts of Sicily and Calabria etc

    In rundown UK you have a unique combo of shit weather, hopeless economics, and a sense of being trapped. And lots of ugly red brick new builds making it EVEN WORSE

    Britain needs a population of about 25-30m, with 10m in London (which still functions well). Pull down every ugly town and turn them into forests
  • Options
    StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 14,745
    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The hard bit is the purpose.

    The good news is that AI will create productivity and profit and provide the cash to fix problems.

    But that still leaves the question of what so many towns are for. Rochdale isn't getting its cotton industry back. Gosport isn't going to be serving the Royal Navy again. Romford isn't getting a massive, town-defining market back.

    Suitably done up, they all have potential as agreeable places to live while workers commute to Manchester/Portsmouth/London. But what town wants to be a commuter dormitory, or a hub for digital nomads? It may be rational, but it's not emotionally desirable.

    And a lot of the appeal of British Populism is older people lamenting their lost youth. Even when it's their decisions at the ballot box and the checkout that brought us here.
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,703

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    People moved around massively in previous generations. These towns exist because of the factories that were built in the past, but are long since gone.

    Make it easier for people to move to where there is work, and shrink the places people leave behind so that they work for a more sustainable smaller size.

    For example, if you build huge amounts of social housing in places like Cambridge, Milton Keynes, etc, then people with social housing tenancies in places like Rochdale will be able to transfer their tenancy to somewhere they can also find a better job.

    We shouldn't regard the population distribution created by the Industrial Revolution as something we have to preserve for ever.
    The British system IS to preserve them forever though, via social transfers.

    The irony is that Britain delivers as much - maybe more - in funds to its deprived regions than Germany does to East Germany.

    But instead of productivity-generating infrastructure, it comes in the form of social services and sickness benefits.
    It's wasted effort, fighting against the tides of history. If the country concentrated on managing the transition, and making it work for people, it would be much more effective.

    Make it easy for people to move to the work, instead of futilely trying to bring work to where people happen to live because of an accident of history.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,539
    Let's at least give George a chance with Rochdale. Perhaps he will at some point take a break from hat-modelling and 'shifting the tectonic plates' and get them a Primark.

    (thanks, RP, really good piece)
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,194
    edited March 1
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Given that the NT membership card is small, made of card, recyclable, and (if you are generous) lasts for life, it's a damn sight more good for the planet than a robowatch which is ****ed when the strap breaks. And is replaced almost as often as an annual card.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    It's absurd that we have net domestic emigration from London while places like that are left to rot.
    Many years ago, a chap I knew was tasked with locating a new factory. Instead of just dumping it in the Far East he had a look at the North of England - he was think of BMW in Alabama, US. Find a rust belt town....

    He said that his reception was pretty much "We don't want your factory" - it sounded as if, to him, that the local politicians didn't want change.

    Then he went to the Far East. At check-in at Heathrow, he discovered that his Business Class ticket had been upgraded to First by the government of the country he was going to look at.....

  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,553

    Keir Starmer must resign.

    Checks notes.

    26 point lead.

    I thought Gorgeous's 3.00am speech condemning Starmer was rather threatening. In the light of the current safety issues surrounding MPs his rhetoric on Gaza was best left unsaid, unless of course he is comfortable lighting blue touch paper.
  • Options
    TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 40,436
    Chris said:

    There is an alternative view. Perhaps the electorate was partly taking the opportunity to condemn something which - for electoral reasons - the mainstream parties would rather avoid commenting on.

    Electoral calculations often don't lead to wise decisions, but they are certainly dominating political decision-making at the moment.

    Quite so.
    See also voting for cesspits like Johnstone and Farage cos anti democratic Libtards are stealing our Brexit etc. Strangely those voters tend to get more sympathy on PB.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,194
    kinabalu said:

    Let's at least give George a chance with Rochdale. Perhaps he will at some point take a break from hat-modelling and 'shifting the tectonic plates' and get them a Primark.

    (thanks, RP, really good piece)

    Agreed re RP - less confident re Mr G.

    Will be interesting to see how London HQ and Slab relationship develops, as the central control will be even tighter. It's not as if most of the candidates have a track record as MPs, so haven't been through the mill yet.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,346

    FPT:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:

    sarissa said:

    Pulpstar said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Pulpstar said:

    Pulpstar said:



    Just come around here - there're loads of Chinese moving into Cambourne West. Most from Hong Kong, I believe. I've chatted to a fair few of them, and they're all lovely. Although some seem a little shellshocked at life over here...

    Snipped as the convo was getting a bit unwieldy.

    Are you near all the new housebuilding going on ex Cambridge environs ? Anecdotally it seems like a staggering amount of building going on, more than anywhere else in England probably.
    Yep. I can hear some of the diggers going crunch-crunch-crunch now, from my study. They're building not far off. Cambourne currently has 4,250 houses.

    We have at least three major developments being built:
    *) Cambourne West (2,350 houses)
    *) Waterbeach New Town (6,500 houses)
    *) Northstowe (11,000 houses)

    As well as this, it is expected that the old Bourn airfield site, immediately to the east of Cambourne, will be built upon - perhaps 3,500 homes. And there is talk of houses (perhaps 10,000) on the area immediately to the north, over the dual carriageway. And the (Lib Dem) council wants to squeeze 250 extra homes on land that was zoned to be used by business. That's the only scheme I'm against.

    There's also the new developments at St Neots:
    *) Wintrigham (2,800 houses)
    *) Monksfield - just being started (1,020 houses)

    The latter is hilariously named - it is eight miles away from us, and we already have a 'Monkfield' school, a 'Monkfield' doctor's surgery, a 'Monkfield' pub, etc, etc. Calling the new development 'Monksfield' is going to cause all sorts of hilarity...
    I note what looks like a roughly 100 m2 currently cgi 4 bed detached is going for £570k... will people be able to afford that sort of price ?

    https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/134203304#/?channel=RES_NEW

    You'd probably want to be earning £190k or so between a couple to be comfortable with that I'd imagine.
    Going on the dimensions it's around 110-115 sqm afaics.

    I think one question is the usual one - how many will be buying that as their first house? I suggest most will need to fund the difference.

    FTB status giving exemption from Stamp Duty may help.

    There also seem to be some cashbacks (I make it 7k) available, which is interesting. Developers are trying to protect the headline price.

    Are FTB government-subsidy schemes still operating?
    Incentives in toto look to be just under 5%,

    As a comparator, one of those on a posher suburb of Nottingham - West Bridgford, which is Ken Clarke country, is on at £530k.
    https://www.bovishomes.co.uk/developments/nottinghamshire/edwalton-fields-nottingham/home-3020

    One of the toilets should probably be storage. Lord knows why developers these days seem to think a small 4 bed needs 3 bogs.
    Building Regs require a WC and basin room on the ground floor for impaired mobility users, and the en-suite for the master bedroom is de rigeur.
    I do wonder how many people @Pulpstar thinks are going to be living in such a property - 1 bathroom shared between 3 bedrooms, in the morning?
    2 bathrooms ;)
    1 ensuite for 1 bedroom
    1 bathroom for the other three

    That doesn't sound very generous to me.
    Is it an absolute act of faith that a master bedroom, no matter how poxy requires an en-suite these days rather than say a walk in wardrobe ?
    I need an en suite, as the cat prefers to drink out of the sink than using her water fountain, or her other water fountain.


    That whole thread is interesting. I’d not touch new builds for the price they want. I’m currently looking at houses in Auld Reekie and you can get the stereotypical 30s bungalows for £500k and quite fine 50s 4 bedders for £450k in some very nice areas if you’re willing to put up with some mental decor for the three weeks it’ll take to get the Ps&Ds in. The new builds right next to them were going for £550k with no garden, horrible layouts and the laundry list of snagging.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    Leon said:

    a

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    Channeling William the Barsteward is not the best plan.
    We don't have to harry the north, just kick everyone out and reintroduce wolves, lynx and bears
    That pretty much *was* the Harrying of The North business plan.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    It's absurd that we have net domestic emigration from London while places like that are left to rot.
    Many years ago, a chap I knew was tasked with locating a new factory. Instead of just dumping it in the Far East he had a look at the North of England - he was think of BMW in Alabama, US. Find a rust belt town....

    He said that his reception was pretty much "We don't want your factory" - it sounded as if, to him, that the local politicians didn't want change.

    Then he went to the Far East. At check-in at Heathrow, he discovered that his Business Class ticket had been upgraded to First by the government of the country he was going to look at.....

    The sense of drive and optimism in Cambodia is something else. Phenomenal

    Median age of 27, almost no fat people, constant fast growth, superb food, and still plenty of kids (TFR: 2.7)

    You have to go somewhere like that to truly understand how depressing life is becoming in the West (it's not just the UK, by any means)
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881

    Leon said:

    a

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    Channeling William the Barsteward is not the best plan.
    We don't have to harry the north, just kick everyone out and reintroduce wolves, lynx and bears
    That pretty much *was* the Harrying of The North business plan.
    Sensible man, William the Conqueror. Sound business instincts
  • Options
    Great article. My mum’s family are from Rochdale way (Shaw mainly), and I agree with a lot of what is written.

    It is so annoying to see Galloway back. But, hopefully it will be just a short encore for a fairly dismal man.

    I get that the Israel / Gaza situation is terrible, but I don’t think Galloway will be able to exploit over the longer term in the way the RESPECT party could surf on a wave of anger about the war in Iraq. When all said and done we aren’t doing the fighting. And even though RESPECT were a coherent party for a time I think they only picked up a few councillors in addition to Galloway’s seat in Bethnal Green and Bow.

    So while Rochdale Pioneers is right that this may frighten Labour into timidity. I don’t think they should be. This feels like a passing shower.

    Mind they should make sure they get a bit better on the vetting. As I have said before what I found annoying was not simply that the prospective Labour candidate said something anti-Semitic, it was also so dumb.

    Labour, assuming they win, are going to inherit a tough situation - and the current administration appear hell bent on salting the earth. The country will need a higher calibre of ministers than we currently have to turn the corner. I appreciate the by-election was unplanned. But if this is calibre of folk Labour are putting up for safer contests god help us.
  • Options
    GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 20,890
    edited March 1
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Excellent piece, Rochdale

    (You can really write, btw)

    What saddens me about this is that the same story could surely be written of two dozen British towns, at least. And I don't think they will ever get better, in my lifetime, unless AI performs a miracle (because Labour or the Tories certainly won't)

    Two dozen? At least.

    It’s a great national tragedy, and seems just a permanent and permanently-accepted feature of British life. Like corruption in Italy, gun laws in the US, and the schoolgirl knicker fetish in Japan.
    The same can be said of a hundred lost little cities in America, esp but not always in the rustbelt, and multiple communities in the Mezzogiorno

    Desperate places with no obvious remedy

    However at least in America there is that sense of freedom, if you live in Shit-hole Indiana, just get in your car and drive south and west. And Italy has the sun which helps - tho it can still be fucking grim even in the sun, in parts of Sicily and Calabria etc

    In rundown UK you have a unique combo of shit weather, hopeless economics, and a sense of being trapped. And lots of ugly red brick new builds making it EVEN WORSE

    Britain needs a population of about 25-30m, with 10m in London (which still functions well). Pull down every ugly town and turn them into forests
    America has the tyranny of space.
    IF you are trapped in Rustbucket, Indiana, then it’s a mighty long distance to somewhere else. Nonetheless, you’re absolutely correct that America always offers someplace better, often down south where housing costs are cheap.

    Britain makes it very hard to move (housing costs, stamp duty, council housing waiting lists etc).

    And I have to agree on the ugly red brick new builds. Is that what aspiration looks like in the UK, now?
    What the hell is the point of bettering yourself when what’s on offer looks like that Nottingham “executive home” posted before, on sale for nearly £600k?
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,346
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    a

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    Channeling William the Barsteward is not the best plan.
    We don't have to harry the north, just kick everyone out and reintroduce wolves, lynx and bears
    That pretty much *was* the Harrying of The North business plan.
    Sensible man, William the Conqueror. Sound business instincts
    Good eye for a hostile takeover, less talent for stakeholder engagement and succession planning.
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,194

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The hard bit is the purpose.

    The good news is that AI will create productivity and profit and provide the cash to fix problems.

    But that still leaves the question of what so many towns are for. Rochdale isn't getting its cotton industry back. Gosport isn't going to be serving the Royal Navy again. Romford isn't getting a massive, town-defining market back.

    Suitably done up, they all have potential as agreeable places to live while workers commute to Manchester/Portsmouth/London. But what town wants to be a commuter dormitory, or a hub for digital nomads? It may be rational, but it's not emotionally desirable.

    And a lot of the appeal of British Populism is older people lamenting their lost youth. Even when it's their decisions at the ballot box and the checkout that brought us here.
    Back in the 40s and 50s when they closed old mines and moved miners wholesale across Scotland to the new superpits in the East (with some very interesting clashes of culture, but that's another story) they simply demolished the old mining villages in some cases. Out in the more unfrequented parts of Lanarkshire, no indutry once the pit had gone, the NCB pretty much the sole landlord (it owned the houses too).
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,553
    edited March 1
    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly Tory) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
  • Options
    david_herdsondavid_herdson Posts: 17,467
    Here's a thought: you assume that Farage will take over the leadership of Reform.

    What if it's Boris?
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    It's absurd that we have net domestic emigration from London while places like that are left to rot.
    Many years ago, a chap I knew was tasked with locating a new factory. Instead of just dumping it in the Far East he had a look at the North of England - he was think of BMW in Alabama, US. Find a rust belt town....

    He said that his reception was pretty much "We don't want your factory" - it sounded as if, to him, that the local politicians didn't want change.

    Then he went to the Far East. At check-in at Heathrow, he discovered that his Business Class ticket had been upgraded to First by the government of the country he was going to look at.....

    The sense of drive and optimism in Cambodia is something else. Phenomenal

    Median age of 27, almost no fat people, constant fast growth, superb food, and still plenty of kids (TFR: 2.7)

    You have to go somewhere like that to truly understand how depressing life is becoming in the West (it's not just the UK, by any means)
    It wasn't that - it was "We say no" in Northern England. When he went to the country in question, they did a rather interesting pitch. Not "Give us your factory, we don't care" - more "If you build a good quality factory, paying reasonable rates and with reasonable employee conditions, we will guarantee a stable environment and tax structure over the next few decades."
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,553

    Here's a thought: you assume that Farage will take over the leadership of Reform.

    What if it's Boris?

    Crossing the floor (ok he needs a seat first). Very Churchillian.
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,346

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
    Market Towns that have turned dormitory town are my second least favourite place to visit for work. I can predict the exact chains on the high street before I arrive and I can feel my soul being sucked out as I pass the town boundary.

  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Given that the NT membership card is small, made of card, recyclable, and (if you are generous) lasts for life, it's a damn sight more good for the planet than a robowatch which is ****ed when the strap breaks. And is replaced almost as often as an annual card.
    Eh? You can replace the strap.

    Another red herring, among many.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,329
    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Why do you need to microwave it? Do the superheated batteries in your Apple devices not keep it warm?
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,553
    Great header Rochdale.

    As for Galloway. Like Mike Harding said. "It's hard being a cowboy in Rochdale".
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Given that the NT membership card is small, made of card, recyclable, and (if you are generous) lasts for life, it's a damn sight more good for the planet than a robowatch which is ****ed when the strap breaks. And is replaced almost as often as an annual card.
    Eh? You can replace the strap.

    Another red herring, among many.
    If you like, you can get straps that are made out of ridiculously unbreakable materials.
  • Options
    LeonLeon Posts: 47,881

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
    I was in Leominster last year and it seemed fine. Can't say the same for Hereford, it was in a right old state

    Evesham has been weirdly crap for quite a long time

    We have fucked the country with mass immigration on a spectacularly thoughtless scale, and from all the wrong places. That's really all there is to it. There is no point in lying to ourselves any more. The election of a sectarian MP campaigning on aggressively Muslim issues simply underlines this

    And this is unfuckable. Roll on the AI Apocalypse
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    GET RID OF THE PAPER AND PLASTIC CLUTTER
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,610
    NEWS FROM THE CULTURAL FRONT LINE

    Am on the (overground) train. Ticket inspector (guard?) came through. Opposite me is a young (18-25 I'd say), IC3 male, sort of not quite an afro, smartly enough dressed, backpack on the seat next to him. He showed his ticket and then the guard asked him for his railcard.

    So far so good.

    Then he asked for my ticket, which I showed him (on my phone, @Anabobazina don't panic) and....HE DID NOT ASK ME FOR MY RAILCARD.

    (And without doxxing myself, and for reference, I am not a young IC3 male.)
  • Options
    AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
    I was in Leominster last year and it seemed fine. Can't say the same for Hereford, it was in a right old state

    Evesham has been weirdly crap for quite a long time

    We have fucked the country with mass immigration on a spectacularly thoughtless scale, and from all the wrong places. That's really all there is to it. There is no point in lying to ourselves any more. The election of a sectarian MP campaigning on aggressively Muslim issues simply underlines this

    And this is unfuckable. Roll on the AI Apocalypse
    Surprised they you haven’t named it Leonminster in a shrine to yourself
  • Options
    OnboardG1OnboardG1 Posts: 1,346
    TOPPING said:

    NEWS FROM THE CULTURAL FRONT LINE

    Am on the (overground) train. Ticket inspector (guard?) came through. Opposite me is a young (18-25 I'd say), IC3 male, sort of not quite an afro, smartly enough dressed, backpack on the seat next to him. He showed his ticket and then the guard asked him for his railcard.

    So far so good.

    Then he asked for my ticket, which I showed him (on my phone, @Anabobazina don't panic) and....HE DID NOT ASK ME FOR MY RAILCARD.

    (And without doxxing myself, and for reference, I am not a young IC3 male.)

    Probably thought you were bad news and not to push his luck ;)
  • Options
    LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 15,703
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
    I was in Leominster last year and it seemed fine. Can't say the same for Hereford, it was in a right old state

    Evesham has been weirdly crap for quite a long time

    We have fucked the country with mass immigration on a spectacularly thoughtless scale, and from all the wrong places. That's really all there is to it. There is no point in lying to ourselves any more. The election of a sectarian MP campaigning on aggressively Muslim issues simply underlines this

    And this is unfuckable. Roll on the AI Apocalypse
    Rochdale's problems are tangential to immigration. It wasn't immigrants moving into Rochdale that closed down the factories and left the place a no-hope wreck.

    If we imagine an alternate reality of low immigration to Britain, Rochdale would still be in an awful mess.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,610
    edited March 1
    OnboardG1 said:

    TOPPING said:

    NEWS FROM THE CULTURAL FRONT LINE

    Am on the (overground) train. Ticket inspector (guard?) came through. Opposite me is a young (18-25 I'd say), IC3 male, sort of not quite an afro, smartly enough dressed, backpack on the seat next to him. He showed his ticket and then the guard asked him for his railcard.

    So far so good.

    Then he asked for my ticket, which I showed him (on my phone, @Anabobazina don't panic) and....HE DID NOT ASK ME FOR MY RAILCARD.

    (And without doxxing myself, and for reference, I am not a young IC3 male.)

    Probably thought you were bad news and not to push his luck ;)
    I think he glanced at my computer screen, saw the name "Leon", and hightailed it out of there as soon as he humanly could.
  • Options
    Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 27,256
    "Tobias Ellwood, the Conservative MP, said the literature produced by Galloway’s team in the lead-up to the by-election was “designed to rally fear”. He told Sky News: “This was a chaotic by-election. It’s taking place when temperatures are already raised very, very high.”

    Ellwood said the contest should have been an “easy win for Labour”. He added: “I read some of his literature — they are so full of hate. They are designed to rally fear, they are designed to cause division.”

    Ellwood concluded: “This was a very, very horrible by-election to watch.”"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/by-election-results-live-rochdale-tory-labour-latest-news-george-galloway-azhar-ali-d5lqr0k37
  • Options
    CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 40,194

    Carnyx said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Given that the NT membership card is small, made of card, recyclable, and (if you are generous) lasts for life, it's a damn sight more good for the planet than a robowatch which is ****ed when the strap breaks. And is replaced almost as often as an annual card.
    Eh? You can replace the strap.

    Another red herring, among many.
    But the watches get replaced almost as often.
  • Options
    TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 41,610
    Andy_JS said:

    "Tobias Ellwood, the Conservative MP, said the literature produced by Galloway’s team in the lead-up to the by-election was “designed to rally fear”. He told Sky News: “This was a chaotic by-election. It’s taking place when temperatures are already raised very, very high.”

    Ellwood said the contest should have been an “easy win for Labour”. He added: “I read some of his literature — they are so full of hate. They are designed to rally fear, they are designed to cause division.”

    Ellwood concluded: “This was a very, very horrible by-election to watch.”"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/by-election-results-live-rochdale-tory-labour-latest-news-george-galloway-azhar-ali-d5lqr0k37

    Can't be. Ellwood has it wrong. GG is a fellow traveller of our very own @kinabalu so must be a good sort.
  • Options
    AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 20,286
    TOPPING said:

    NEWS FROM THE CULTURAL FRONT LINE

    Am on the (overground) train. Ticket inspector (guard?) came through. Opposite me is a young (18-25 I'd say), IC3 male, sort of not quite an afro, smartly enough dressed, backpack on the seat next to him. He showed his ticket and then the guard asked him for his railcard.

    So far so good.

    Then he asked for my ticket, which I showed him (on my phone, @Anabobazina don't panic) and....HE DID NOT ASK ME FOR MY RAILCARD.

    (And without doxxing myself, and for reference, I am not a young IC3 male.)

    Do you even qualify for a railcard? :D

    P.S. I used to have a 'SOUTH EAST RAILCARD' – on my phone, praise be, so I never forgot it.
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,553
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    How do we rescue these towns? I'm not sure you can

    They were built for the industrial revolution, now that has gone and is never returning. AI will destroy the few jobs left

    Probably the best thing that could happen is that they are all levelled, and returned to grass, and farms and woods. Depopulate the north, it's not worth saving

    The problem since 2010 has been compounded. Decades of local Labour corruption and underfunding by (mainly) central Government has been joined by the decline of the rural market town, like Evesham, and Leominster. I can't remember who let them down. Probably the EU...
    I was in Leominster last year and it seemed fine. Can't say the same for Hereford, it was in a right old state

    Evesham has been weirdly crap for quite a long time

    We have fucked the country with mass immigration on a spectacularly thoughtless scale, and from all the wrong places. That's really all there is to it. There is no point in lying to ourselves any more. The election of a sectarian MP campaigning on aggressively Muslim issues simply underlines this

    And this is unfuckable. Roll on the AI Apocalypse
    Leominster fair enough, but yeah Hereford is on its arse. Bromyard, Upton, Great Malvern (the Link is OK) Ledbury, I'd argue Newent. And not many Muslims in Ledbury or Newent.
  • Options
    MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 44,975
    Scott_xP said:

    Selebian said:

    Selebian said:

    Nigelb said:

    Meanwhile.

    US man extends record for most Big Macs eaten in a lifetime to over 34,000
    Don Gorske, 70, becomes one of Guinness World Records’ longest-running holders with intake of two McDonald’s burgers a day
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/01/most-mcdonalds-big-macs-eaten-lifetime-world-record-don-gorske

    "He has kept a receipt of every single Big Mac he’s eaten every day since that first one, and he’s retained each of the burgers’ containers..."

    "But Gorske now usually goes to McDonald’s twice weekly, orders batches of Big Macs and – after eating a fresh one – takes them home to microwave when he’s hungry."

    Reheated Big Macs :open_mouth:

    The article is also troublingly silent on what he has done with all those containers.
    All that shit, along with plastic banknotes, ‘appointment cards’, National Trust membership badges, and loyalty cards for cash-only ‘barbers’, is just pointless landfill that fucks the planet.
    Personally, when I buy a Big Mac, I request they provide no packaging and instead, after paying by watch or phone, hand over my iPhone and Apple Watch and so they can use the latter to strap the Big Mac to the former, giving me a nice secure zero-waste package to pop in my pocket as I head home to microwave it.
    Why do you need to microwave it? Do the superheated batteries in your Apple devices not keep it warm?
    This is why nuclear weapons are useful. Put the cold Big Mac on top of a non-super grade plutonium core and it will gently warm up over a few minutes.

    For really cookin' it, use a core made from "civil plutonium". A 20% core will radiate 100 watts....
This discussion has been closed.