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The problems with having two massive elections at the same time – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062

    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Leon said:

    MASTERS OF THE AIR is not very good, is it?

    It’s not terrible. Its just obviously a lot poorer than, say, BAND OF BROTHERS

    Not very good is fair. The Spielbergian world is never afraid of a cliché and quite often gets away with it but MOTA can’t manage it. The scene where spunky USAAF Joes give the posho RAF boys a doing was rubbish.

    Rewatched an episode of BoB the other night and it still holds up. Always tickled to be reminded that Gene Kelly was one of its producers.
    Piece of Cake was pretty good, as far as I recall.
    The Derek Robinson book? Read it but never caught any televisual version. Film or tv?
    1988 LWT production.
    Shorter than it ought to have been, as the budget didn't run to more than half a dozen episodes, but did a pretty decent job if capturing the book.
    I don't think you'd get that many Spitfires together today.

    I can't understand why the current mega budget production companies haven't had a look at his other stuff.

    The WWI novels would be brilliant.
    (And are his best books.)
    The TV series stirred up a bit of a controversy. One character does pretty much commit murder, and lies and cheats his way through.
    'Moggy' Cattermole ?
    An utter shit, played brilliantly.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited February 23
    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,558
    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    stodge said:

    Evening all :)

    Trump challenges the cosy concensus in a way Thatcher and those who thought like her did in the 1970s. In the same way as Butskellism was shown to have failed then, so we can certainly question the post-1945 defence and military concensus nearly 80 years on.

    NATO has been supremely successful on the simple measure it has largely maintained peace in Europe - the break up of Yugoslavia excepted.

    That being said, and I've always acknowledged this, it has been largely funded by and supported by the USA. When it faced the Warsaw Pact, there was the acknowledgement in Washington the fall of Western Europe would be a strategic catastrophe for the United States though I'm now of the view had the Red Army and its allies attacked, it wouldn't have been NATO facing defeat and reaching for the nuclear button after 96 hours but the Warsaw Pact.

    There are three paths - the first is American Isolationism or at least disengagement from Europe (or even more accurately, a re-prioritisation of force toward the Pacific) which wouldn't exactly leave Europe defenceless but would leave questions. The Russian military performance in the Ukraine doesn't suggest an overwhelming military glacis confronting us but that's not to be complacent 1.5% of GDP rather than 2.0%? Semantics?

    The second is we take more of the burden of NATO and the US less - everyone moves up to 2% at least. It would placate Trump but the long term move of American strategic interests to confront China would still happen.

    The third is we jog on as we are which is probably what would happen in a second Biden term.

    The debate about a European defence identity would stir up a lot of emotion. We pooled sovereignty to an extent in NATO though we've maintained our independent nuclear deterrent as have the French and could do so again in a new European defence arrangement. British and Polish soldiers on joint exercises hardly represents re-joining the EU.

    I would honestly love to have seen a chat between Thatcher and Trump. She'd have mushed him into jam with one withering gaze.

    (And I'm in no way a Thatcher fan - but she had an intellect, a plan, grit. Trump has grift. Which is rather different)
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    Not especially useful - but a Hungarian guy of my acquaintance recently went back home to get some eye treatment. I asked why not just use the NHS and he politely held back a laugh as best he could.
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    edited February 23
    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited February 23
    boulay said:

    Leon said:

    Actually the scene in MOTA where the American duffs up the posh English RAF guy is worth focusing on as it shows the problems of the whole series

    The English guy isn’t villainous enough for us to hate him and want him to be punched. Meanwhile the yank who is going to do the punching is actually confusing. They can’t decide who is going to do it. Literally. You think it will be the good looking hero then suddenly it’s someone else you’ve never seen before and care even less about

    And the whole scene is hurried along like it is an embarrassment and then not mentioned again. So what was it for? What did it prove? No one looks heroic it just seems dumb and pointless - for all the characters - and they are already flimsy

    This is the case throughout. You don’t know who is doing what or why or why you should care and half the time they are in masks so you can’t identify them. You have no idea of their backstory. You have no investment in them as people. So if they die - whatever

    It’s really amazingly poor from a company as wealthy as Apple with Spielberg and Hanks as exec producers. Weird

    There has to be a bit where the Brits are shown as a bit pathetic. The BoB part that irritated the shit out of me was when they helped the Paras cross the river and it spins out to the Paras drinking and praising the Americans because the Brits just can’t do anything themselves.

    They don’t actually seem to be able to show the fact that there were as many very capable, tough and solid British troops around doing the same thing the Americans were. It’s a weird cultural cringe they have where they have to give us a kick.
    See also "Saving Private Ryan", where the guy from Cheers is sarky about Montgomery
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368

    Andy_JS said:

    I always thought Liz Truss was fairly right-wing but not quite as right-wing as this.

    Andy_JS said:

    I always thought Liz Truss was fairly right-wing but not quite as right-wing as this.

    I always thought you were fairly right-wing.

    But, whilst you talk right, you vote left.

    ...

    Andy_JS said:

    I always thought Liz Truss was fairly right-wing but not quite as right-wing as this.

    You were probably right, at the time.
    I once thought @williamglenn was a Liberal Remainer. You live and learn.
    His positions are consistent: you can be both a (very disillusioned) European nationalist and an American nationalist on the basis you think it's good to have two powerful Western superpowers that stand on their own two feet.
    With all due respect to @williamglenn his position on Europe has been very inconsistent. Of course he is perfectly entitled to change his mind, although bearing in mind how Brexit has planned out, I am intrigued as to why the change of heart.

    After the EU vote he was a very compelling and impressive advocate for Remain. Now not so much.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    ...
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Just to double-down on my SVIC mention - one of them did a quick cover of google's integration of their Gemini model with sheets/gmail/etc. And it wasn't pretty (given the guy worked for them for years and is, basically, pro-google) :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0lG7LO-1kg
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    edited February 23
    (somewhere in the dark, the living corpse of Yahoo smiles wearily "Tttold you, you smugg bastarrrds")
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062
    edited February 23
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    Moving to the right as you get older is, in general, fine. There is nothing wrong with concluding things like your family is protected by rock solid defence, a nuclear deterrent and top quality armed forces; nothing wrong with believing in sound money, saving, prudent fiscal policies, broadest shoulders bear the heaviest burden; nothing wrong with coming to feel that history is part of an organic process from which the present and future is an oak tree like development; nothing wrong with realising that equality of outcome is meaningless but moving towards equality of opportunity is a fantastic and humane endeavour.

    Not long ago such thoughts were the backbone of Tory voters and members. But who do I vote for now?
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    My town is falling toward the sea; another significant landslip this evening, following on from several smaller ones over recent days and the biggest one for decades in December.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062
    .

    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again

    No, he had half a point.
    While I think william was just wrong, I'm conscious I can harp on excessively.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,558
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    Google have many fingers in many pies; and good companies reinvent themselves. Look at IBM or Microsoft. Or to a lesser extent, Apple, which is still in the consumer tech market.

    I remember people saying back in the late 1980s that IBM had had it as a company, due to mainframes becoming redundant with the rise of PCs (*) and minicomputers. Likewise, that Linux would kill MS dead. Then the Internet would kill them. Their market cap has gone up tenfold in the last ten years.

    (*) A market they grabbed a massive part of with the original IBM PC, then lost...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Google owns Youtube of course, Android, Waymo self driving cars. Plus its search engine is, along with Youtube, the 2 most searched websites in the world.

    Plus of course you would expect 95% of companies to have already gone under before those actually invested and leading in AI did
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    Gemini is a disquietingly major mistake by them

    It’s especially disquieting as it means they are so complacent/arrogant/woke/dumb - or all four - they didn’t red-team their own AI model. They didn’t properly test it or they don’t allow dissenting mindsets which might suggest flaws (“er, our model won’t ever show white people and appears to be racist against whites”)

    That is a proper red alert moment. It’s like the guy at Kodak who said “uhm, maybe this digital image stuff is an issue?” and everyone ignored him. Or they sacked him
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,950
    Roger said:

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    Let’s hope he doesn’t flounce off vowing never to return.
    I believe we had two unsuccessful flounces last week. A very poor return
    https://youtu.be/UneS2Uwc6xw?si=aQfoRpj4iTZRJvA0
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Nigelb said:

    .

    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again

    No, he had half a point.
    While I think william was just wrong, I'm conscious I can harp on excessively.
    Feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Many users who accuse others of bullying do it themselves all the time.

    Those that claim to hate Labour/left wing partisan posting, seem to post as much pro-Tory stuff as they want.

    Everyone is a hypocrite.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Google owns Youtube of course, Android, Waymo self driving cars. Plus its search engine is, along with Youtube, the 2 most searched websites in the world.

    Plus of course you would expect 95% of companies to have already gone under before those actually invested and leading in AI did
    All true. Google are ginormous. A world without them seems inconceivable. But a world without the Roman Empire was equally mad, as a notion, for centuries. Or a world without horses as a main source of power

    AI is the kind of epochal tech which WILL change the world - and fast

    Brace!

    And on that suitably Leon-esque note, goodnight
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Google owns Youtube of course, Android, Waymo self driving cars. Plus its search engine is, along with Youtube, the 2 most searched websites in the world.

    Plus of course you would expect 95% of companies to have already gone under before those actually invested and leading in AI did
    All true. Google are ginormous. A world without them seems inconceivable. But a world without the Roman Empire was equally mad, as a notion, for centuries. Or a world without horses as a main source of power

    AI is the kind of epochal tech which WILL change the world - and fast

    Brace!

    And on that suitably Leon-esque note, goodnight
    And if AI makes most permanent jobs redundant it makes a UBI funded by a robot tax inevitable.

    There are only so many jobs Microsoft and Apple can create!
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    Plus in Bangkok you can buy Tramadol OTC. Which hugely reduces any pain…
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,643
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    Google have many fingers in many pies; and good companies reinvent themselves. Look at IBM or Microsoft. Or to a lesser extent, Apple, which is still in the consumer tech market.

    I remember people saying back in the late 1980s that IBM had had it as a company, due to mainframes becoming redundant with the rise of PCs (*) and minicomputers. Likewise, that Linux would kill MS dead. Then the Internet would kill them. Their market cap has gone up tenfold in the last ten years.

    (*) A market they grabbed a massive part of with the original IBM PC, then lost...
    Yes, everyone read stuff like The Innovator's Dilemma back at the end of last century, and got some idea of what's necessary to survive.

    Don't know why Leon's ignoring YouTube.
    That alone would keep Google solvent for a while.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    The Tories have spent the last fourteen years creating a generation of non-Tories. That was phenomenal fore-planning wasn't it!

    Telling young people they're all thick, entitled and woke makes them not vote for you, who knew?
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062

    Nigelb said:

    .

    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again

    No, he had half a point.
    While I think william was just wrong, I'm conscious I can harp on excessively.
    Feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Many users who accuse others of bullying do it themselves all the time.

    Those that claim to hate Labour/left wing partisan posting, seem to post as much pro-Tory stuff as they want.

    Everyone is a hypocrite.
    Perhaps.
    But we all have to de-escalate occasionally.
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    The Tories have spent the last fourteen years creating a generation of non-Tories. That was phenomenal fore-planning wasn't it!

    Telling young people they're all thick, entitled and woke makes them not vote for you, who knew?
    You don’t think that hearing Liz Truss’s stirring oratory today will win some of them round?
  • It's absolutely breathtaking that Truss should de facto endorse the Orange Turd. Goes to prove that she's devoid of any braincells whatsoever. I have the misfortune to live in her constituency. I definitely will NOT be lending her my vote this time round. I would normally vote true blue, but I'm a one-nation, economic credibility focused, socially liberal old-style Tolerant Tory. She isn't. She is a clear and manifest danger to not only the Party but the country. She deserves to be voted out. Unfortunately her constituency is one of top safest, if not THE safest Tory seat in the country. It would take the shattering of the earth to dislodge her. I can only hope that her ruinous reputation and the utter disdain she is commonly held in around the country results in enough stay-at-homes and active votes against her to make the difference hereabouts.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again

    No, he had half a point.
    While I think william was just wrong, I'm conscious I can harp on excessively.
    Feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Many users who accuse others of bullying do it themselves all the time.

    Those that claim to hate Labour/left wing partisan posting, seem to post as much pro-Tory stuff as they want.

    Everyone is a hypocrite.
    Perhaps.
    But we all have to de-escalate occasionally.
    When has the user in question ever de-escalated? Every time they re-appear they are even more angry and condescending. They are the only person here I actually believe brings the vibe down.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
    Needs must when the Devil drives. I can't do five figures, period, so I can't do UK. I can't do status quo because the teeth are beginning to cascade: as each tooth is removed its neighbours become more wobbly. My mouth is turning into Oppenheimer. So abroad is necessary and the risk must be purchased.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    IanB2 said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    The Tories have spent the last fourteen years creating a generation of non-Tories. That was phenomenal fore-planning wasn't it!

    Telling young people they're all thick, entitled and woke makes them not vote for you, who knew?
    You don’t think that hearing Liz Truss’s stirring oratory today will win some of them round?
    I was absolutely inspired.

    To vote for Keir Starmer.
  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    It is quite amusing watching people go in to Trump derangement syndrome. They insist that, whilst Trump is the overwhelming favourite in the US election, and Europe 'lurches to the far right', any similar political movement in the UK is doomed to failure, because the centre in the UK has shifted to the left, and the conservatives need to 'modernise' and go along with it, ignoring overwhelming evidence that things like their policy on stopping small boats is very popular with the public.

    The whole thing with the "PB Consensus" reminds me a bit of dealing with Corbynites in the labour party - people have difficulties facing up to reality.

    I would agree that Trump is symptomatic of the decline of the USA, but would say that the democrats are just as much to blame for this, and that Trump offers voters a meaningful alternative.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
  • Nigelb said:

    Nigelb said:

    .

    James Bond fan is on the special sauce again

    No, he had half a point.
    While I think william was just wrong, I'm conscious I can harp on excessively.
    Feels a bit like the pot calling the kettle black. Many users who accuse others of bullying do it themselves all the time.

    Those that claim to hate Labour/left wing partisan posting, seem to post as much pro-Tory stuff as they want.

    Everyone is a hypocrite.
    Perhaps.
    But we all have to de-escalate occasionally.
    When has the user in question ever de-escalated? Every time they re-appear they are even more angry and condescending. They are the only person here I actually believe brings the vibe down.
    For how long was it that the HorsecockBatterer wanted to drive BigG off this site?
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited February 23
    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    A friend called round last week who I haven't seen in a decade

    He is very wealthy and has had extensive teeth reconstruction which so far has cost him £32,000

    He was told it would take 9 months and even after 2 and a half years he still has outstanding work and strangely it has changed the way he speaks

    I do not want to depress you but he is being treated privately in the UK and said he is pleased he did not have the treatment abroad due to the multiple trips and complications

    I assume going abroad for routine dentistry may be an option but in my opinion UK based is probably the best choice for more complex issues

  • darkagedarkage Posts: 5,398
    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    My sympathies. I have not looked in to going abroad but would certainly consider doing the same thing in this situation. As things stand for me my local NHS dentist packed it in. I have been brushing my teeth more, flossing etc as a precautionary measure.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    A friend called round last week who I haven't seen in a decade

    He is very wealthy and has had extensive teeth reconstruction which so far has cost him £32,000

    He was told it would take 9 months and even after 2 and a half years he still has outstanding work and strangely it has changed the way he speaks

    I do not want to depress you but he is being treated privately in the UK and said he is pleased he did not have the treatment abroad due to the multiple trips and complications

    I assume going abroad for routine dentistry may be an option but in my opinion UK based is probably the best choice for more complex issues

    We probably both remember the Pam Ayres poem about wish I'd looked after my teeth...
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    The Tories have spent the last fourteen years creating a generation of non-Tories. That was phenomenal fore-planning wasn't it!

    Telling young people they're all thick, entitled and woke makes them not vote for you, who knew?
    Unfortunately, iiuc the generation after the millennials (GenZ 1995-2010) are turning right, at least US males are. Generational stuff be weird.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    That is just mainly a factor of Brexit, Cameron even won 25-35 year olds in 2010.

    However Brexit is now done and if Labour win the next election they will be responsible for the economy, if they fail to deliver then young people will shift more to the right again, as they are did in Italy and are now doing in the Canada and the US and even to Le Pen in France who is now competitive with Macron's party even amongst the youngest.

    The US chart is already outdated, although Biden won under 35s comfortably in 2020 Trump is now near level with him amongst the youngest voters
  • viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    A friend called round last week who I haven't seen in a decade

    He is very wealthy and has had extensive teeth reconstruction which so far has cost him £32,000

    He was told it would take 9 months and even after 2 and a half years he still has outstanding work and strangely it has changed the way he speaks

    I do not want to depress you but he is being treated privately in the UK and said he is pleased he did not have the treatment abroad due to the multiple trips and complications

    I assume going abroad for routine dentistry may be an option but in my opinion UK based is probably the best choice for more complex issues

    We probably both remember the Pam Ayres poem about wish I'd looked after my teeth...
    We have been in Denplan for years and have 2 routine check ups annually and all our dentistry is included in the £850pa I pay for both of us

    My wife is to have a root canal filling in 3 weeks which is at no cost but the laboratory cost of the crown is chargeable

    Furthermore, I have said previously that their worldwide emergency cover is amazing enabling me to have treatment in New Zealand on a visit completely free of charges
  • TresTres Posts: 2,694
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    Gemini is a disquietingly major mistake by them

    It’s especially disquieting as it means they are so complacent/arrogant/woke/dumb - or all four - they didn’t red-team their own AI model. They didn’t properly test it or they don’t allow dissenting mindsets which might suggest flaws (“er, our model won’t ever show white people and appears to be racist against whites”)

    That is a proper red alert moment. It’s like the guy at Kodak who said “uhm, maybe this digital image stuff is an issue?” and everyone ignored him. Or they sacked him
    Google have always released new things that don't quite work. It's not going to break them.
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
    Needs must when the Devil drives. I can't do five figures, period, so I can't do UK. I can't do status quo because the teeth are beginning to cascade: as each tooth is removed its neighbours become more wobbly. My mouth is turning into Oppenheimer. So abroad is necessary and the risk must be purchased.
    Understand completely. I'm a know nothing about this stuff, wish you the best with it all.
  • mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,588
    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    Gemini is a disquietingly major mistake by them

    It’s especially disquieting as it means they are so complacent/arrogant/woke/dumb - or all four - they didn’t red-team their own AI model. They didn’t properly test it or they don’t allow dissenting mindsets which might suggest flaws (“er, our model won’t ever show white people and appears to be racist against whites”)

    That is a proper red alert moment. It’s like the guy at Kodak who said “uhm, maybe this digital image stuff is an issue?” and everyone ignored him. Or they sacked him
    They are inexplicably far on the backfoot on AI and I think it is because, at Google, ad revenue is king.

    In the last 18 months, the amount of search people do in sectors where AI copilots/assistants have already taken off (e.g. software dev) has fallen off a cliff (maybe down 20% already). This is bad long term for Google unless they can figure out how to counter it.

    Doubling down on YouTube certainly seems like one approach.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,558
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    A friend called round last week who I haven't seen in a decade

    He is very wealthy and has had extensive teeth reconstruction which so far has cost him £32,000

    He was told it would take 9 months and even after 2 and a half years he still has outstanding work and strangely it has changed the way he speaks

    I do not want to depress you but he is being treated privately in the UK and said he is pleased he did not have the treatment abroad due to the multiple trips and complications

    I assume going abroad for routine dentistry may be an option but in my opinion UK based is probably the best choice for more complex issues

    We probably both remember the Pam Ayres poem about wish I'd looked after my teeth...
    I've been having some treatment done on my teeth because I haven't looked after them very well, and use it as encouragement to my son to brush his teeth: "If you don't want rotten teeth like mine, look after them when you're young!"

    Although tbf, my main problem was that I had three wisdom teeth removed (*) a couple of decades ago, and the other teeth have moved backwards, creating gaps. The fourth wisdom tooth is apparently lying on its side under the gum!

    (*) Explains my lack of wisdom...
  • David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,239
    edited February 23
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
    Needs must when the Devil drives. I can't do five figures, period, so I can't do UK. I can't do status quo because the teeth are beginning to cascade: as each tooth is removed its neighbours become more wobbly. My mouth is turning into Oppenheimer. So abroad is necessary and the risk must be purchased.
    I had several gold crowns fitted many years ago in Bangkok

    Teeth were doomed otherwise. The crowns cost about £1200 and would have cost about £5000 in the UK - IIRC - this was ages ago and the pound was stronger then

    The crowns are still going strong, the dentistry was excellent. I have since had all my dental work done here. Cleaning, whitening, general maintenance. My teeth are fine and strong (given my advancing years) I have not a single complaint

    Bangkok makes a lot of money from health tourism - it’s a big industry here. So if you go to a reputable company you will almost certainly be fine. Better than in the UK

    I see your point of multiple visits. I was here for 3 winter months so the crown work just about fitted into one trip

    But if you are being offered a five figure bill it may still be worth it. Three holidays in Thailand. Do one in Bangkok, one in the north, one in the islands. With dental care in each as you pass through bangers

    Psychologically it is soothing, I find, to solace you from painful dentistry you have nice sunshine and cheap booze and good food…
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062
    Last night we learned DOJ re-arrested Smirnov after his release. Now we know why. A California judge seems to be suggesting his lawyers are complicit in his efforts to flee, in a remarkable line ordering detention for the FBI source whose lies propelled Biden impeachment efforts.
    https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1761092262186963257
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    Well said. William's posts are always good value 👍
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    That is just mainly a factor of Brexit, Cameron even won 25-35 year olds in 2010.

    However Brexit is now done and if Labour win the next election they will be responsible for the economy, if they fail to deliver then young people will shift more to the right again, as they did in Italy and are now doing in Canada and the US and even to Le Pen in France who is now competitive with Macron's party even amongst the youngest.

    The US chart is already outdated, although Biden won under 35s comfortably in 2020 Trump is now near level with him amongst the youngest voters
    Indeed on the latest poll Le Pen gets 50% against Philippe with 18-24s and 51% with 25-34s but only 40% with over 65s and 53% with 18-24s against Atal but only 38% with over 65s.

    https://www.ifop.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/02/120604-Resultats.pdf
  • Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    People get more conservative as they get richer.
    Millennials own fewer houses than the same age group did a few decades ago.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    Difficult to see how the conservative party holds together once in opposition.

  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    Difficult to see how the conservative party holds together once in opposition.

    FPTP
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    Difficult to see how the conservative party holds together once in opposition.

    Survival instinct and thirst for power will keep them together (mostly)

    As I always say, they're like cockroaches. The Tories ALWAYS survive and come back in the end...
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,700

    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    11h
    Next time someone criticises the Westminster political system, just tell them it managed to get rid of Liz Truss in 49 days.

  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,062
    Next time someone disses cash.

    In 1993, Jensen Huang co-founded Nvidia. To incorporate and price the shares, a lawyer asked Huang for any money he had in his wallet.

    He gave $200 for 20% of Nvidia. Today, he has a 3.6% stake (worth ~$72B after Nvidia crossed $2T market cap).

    Lesson: Always keep cash on hand.

    https://twitter.com/TrungTPhan/status/1761112737462268245
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    GIN1138 said:

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    Well said. William's posts are always good value 👍
    William seems to enjoy taking a very implacable position and taking on all comers. He does so very skillfully and often makes great arguments. I remember being frustrated by this when he was the EU's tribune on PB, and am obviously less so now he's changed position. But I still would really like it there was a little more of a feeling of discussion when one spoke to him, rather than a feeling of being used as debating practice.

    Of course it goes without saying that he's a wonderful asset to PB and should stay, and I'm sure he won't let the grumpy sulking of butthurt remoaners who want him to return to the bossom of Mother Brussels bother him for a split second.
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412


    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    11h
    Next time someone criticises the Westminster political system, just tell them it managed to get rid of Liz Truss in 49 days.

    So we could progress to the sunlit uplands of Rishinomics?
  • Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 35,986
    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274
    edited February 23
    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Labour need to be careful with this, given they have their own fair share of odd balls and fruitcakes knocking around...
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    I respect genuine political journeys - it's not like Truss keeps turning back into a Lib Dem every other week.
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Not many dental solutions here for those who can't afford to fly abroad/take several weeks off, nor pay a sizeable monetary fee each month.
    It's all right for some.
    Meanwhile everyone else is ending up in hospital.
    While the group who can afford it moan about their taxes.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799
    Nigelb said:

    Last night we learned DOJ re-arrested Smirnov after his release. Now we know why. A California judge seems to be suggesting his lawyers are complicit in his efforts to flee, in a remarkable line ordering detention for the FBI source whose lies propelled Biden impeachment efforts.
    https://twitter.com/JoyceWhiteVance/status/1761092262186963257

    Not sure I have ever seen a court order quite like that. Despite being an aficionado of this site I am not much of a betting man but anyone who thinks Smirnov might get bail on Monday should please let me know.
  • Welsh labour leader candidate with questions to answer

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-politics-68371954
  • dixiedean said:

    Not many dental solutions here for those who can't afford to fly abroad/take several weeks off, nor pay a sizeable monetary fee each month.
    It's all right for some.
    Meanwhile everyone else is ending up in hospital.
    While the group who can afford it moan about their taxes.

    I do not moan about my taxes and have consistently opposed the triple lock unlike labour
  • GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Labour need to be careful with this, given they have their own fair share of odd balls and fruitcakes knocking around...
    Not sure this is a good move as they are likely to receive a difficult response for them, no matter that I think Truss has lost it
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    He's gone from the standard bearer for Remain to holding one of the great offices of state in a solidly Leaver government.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    That is just mainly a factor of Brexit, Cameron even won 25-35 year olds in 2010.

    However Brexit is now done and if Labour win the next election they will be responsible for the economy, if they fail to deliver then young people will shift more to the right again, as they are did in Italy and are now doing in the Canada and the US and even to Le Pen in France who is now competitive with Macron's party even amongst the youngest.

    The US chart is already outdated, although Biden won under 35s comfortably in 2020 Trump is now near level with him amongst the youngest voters
    No, it's not just Brexit. The current Tory party is toxic to the young, and by the young I mean anyone of working age. Just look at the polling.

    I wouldn't count on an electorate not liking Labour austerity turning Tory for a further dose of Tory austerity.

    Cameron won the young in 2010 by moving his party to the centre, and by being more socially and environmentally progressive. There is zero chance of any Tory leadership contender winning with that agenda.

  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,412
    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Labour need to be careful with this, given they have their own fair share of odd balls and fruitcakes knocking around...
    I think Labour should be more concerned that they are embracing, and being embraced by, the establishment, just when public sentiment on the establishment (across the continent if not yet noticeably in the UK) is souring. They seem dated. They think winning power is still about getting standing ovations at Davos and hugging Emanuel Macron. They seem to care far more about the good opinion of the state than the do about the welfare of the electorate, which doesn't bode well if they're faced with anyone except Sunak.
  • GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 22,274

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    He's gone from the standard bearer for Remain to holding one of the great offices of state in a solidly Leaver government.
    He's accepted Brexit and moved on. Much like our own aforementioned @williamglenn

  • Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    11h
    Next time someone criticises the Westminster political system, just tell them it managed to get rid of Liz Truss in 49 days.

    So we could progress to the sunlit uplands of Rishinomics?
    Same old Tories :lol:
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,009
    GIN1138 said:

    David Cameron is spot on

    'Putin is a neo - imperialist bully'

    Are you listening Truss and others, that is the one nation conservatives I can vote for

    David Cameron says exactly what his audience at that very moment in time wants to hear.
    At least he is not the most unpopular ex PM and has retained his one nation believes, rather than going from a Lib Dem to an extreme far right Trump worshiper
    He's gone from the standard bearer for Remain to holding one of the great offices of state in a solidly Leaver government.
    He's accepted Brexit and moved on. Much like our own aforementioned @williamglenn
    He certainly moved on after Brexit. Quicker than you could say 'Dropped a bollock'.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    edited February 23
    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Meanwhile, and I think more seriously in the current climate, Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman have been engaging in anti-Islamist tirades today, with Anderson claiming Islamists have got control of Sadiq Khan, and Braverman alleging that Islamists are 'bullying Britain into submission'. Language hardly conducive to healing divisions - the far right keyboard warriors will be cheering them on with online threats against prominent Muslims, no doubt. Totally irresponsible (as well as inaccurate, of course).
  • GIN1138 said:

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    Well said. William's posts are always good value 👍
    Good value, or a good laugh? :lol:
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    LOL
  • Big_G_NorthWalesBig_G_NorthWales Posts: 63,027
    edited February 23
  • lintolinto Posts: 38
    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
    Needs must when the Devil drives. I can't do five figures, period, so I can't do UK. I can't do status quo because the teeth are beginning to cascade: as each tooth is removed its neighbours become more wobbly. My mouth is turning into Oppenheimer. So abroad is necessary and the risk must be purchased.
    If you can get to Kendal the dentist who did mine charged about £1500 per tooth for implant etc. may be worth looking into.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,479
    ….LOL
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,889
    edited February 23
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    That is just mainly a factor of Brexit, Cameron even won 25-35 year olds in 2010.

    However Brexit is now done and if Labour win the next election they will be responsible for the economy, if they fail to deliver then young people will shift more to the right again, as they are did in Italy and are now doing in the Canada and the US and even to Le Pen in France who is now competitive with Macron's party even amongst the youngest.

    The US chart is already outdated, although Biden won under 35s comfortably in 2020 Trump is now near level with him amongst the youngest voters
    No, it's not just Brexit. The current Tory party is toxic to the young, and by the young I mean anyone of working age. Just look at the polling.

    I wouldn't count on an electorate not liking Labour austerity turning Tory for a further dose of Tory austerity.

    Cameron won the young in 2010 by moving his party to the centre, and by being more socially and environmentally progressive. There is zero chance of any Tory leadership contender winning with that agenda.

    Yet as I stated in France Le Pen is now ahead with under 40s against candidates from Macron's party, in Canada Poilievre's Conservatives are neck and neck with Trudeau's Liberals amongst under 40s and in the US while Biden won under 40s comfortably in 2020 Trump now is also level pegging with that age group. In Italy too Meloni's party did best with 35-49 year olds not pensioners in 2022.

    Not one of those rightwing or conservative leaders is especially socially liberal and none of them are very pro net zero. So if young people in Europe and North America can turn to the right over high inflation and high living costs and too high immigration and high taxes then no reason they cannot do so here too if a Labour government becomes unpopular.

    Though it helps to offer to build new homes as well as Polievre is proposing
  • Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Meanwhile, and I think more seriously in the current climate, Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman have been engaging in anti-Islamist tirades today, with Anderson claiming Islamists have got control of Sadiq Khan, and Braverman alleging that Islamists are 'bullying Britain into submission'. Language hardly conducive to healing divisions - the far right keyboard warriors will be cheering them on with online threats against prominent Muslims, no doubt. Totally irresponsible (as well as inaccurate, of course).
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13115769/anti-muslim-hate-britain-triple-hamas-israel.html
    "Anti-Muslim hate incidents in Britain TRIPLE since Hamas' assault on Israel - with women bearing the brunt of racist attacks, watchdog reports
    More than 2,000 hate crimes against Muslims recorded since October 7
    Islamophobia watchdog Tell MAMA 'deeply concerned' at 335 per cent rise"

    https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/cases-of-islamophobia-tripled-in-uk-since-israel-hamas-war-in-gaza-study-5108719
    "Cases Of Islamophobia Tripled In UK Since Israel-Hamas War In Gaza: Study"

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-68374372
    "Anti-Muslim cases surge in UK since Hamas attacks, charity finds"
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Labour need to be careful with this, given they have their own fair share of odd balls and fruitcakes knocking around...
    I think Labour should be more concerned that they are embracing, and being embraced by, the establishment, just when public sentiment on the establishment (across the continent if not yet noticeably in the UK) is souring. They seem dated. They think winning power is still about getting standing ovations at Davos and hugging Emanuel Macron. They seem to care far more about the good opinion of the state than the do about the welfare of the electorate, which doesn't bode well if they're faced with anyone except Sunak.
    No, I don't think so. Current Labour thinks winning power is about winning more seats than the Tories, and the polls suggest they'll probably do that comfortably. If Starmer thought insulting Macron would help, he'd do that. He's utterly ruthless and not in thrall to any person or organisation - he's only in thrall to doing what he needs to do to win. As for the welfare of the electorate - well, currently they seem to think that their welfare would be better under Labour that it is under the Tories.
  • DavidLDavidL Posts: 53,799

    GIN1138 said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Labour need to be careful with this, given they have their own fair share of odd balls and fruitcakes knocking around...
    Not sure this is a good move as they are likely to receive a difficult response for them, no matter that I think Truss has lost it
    The underlying premise of that observation is that she ever had “it” in the first place. Really not sure about that.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Also, for what it's worth however strange it might sound, I agree that people are piling on @williamglenn for no reason. I don't agree with anything he's ever posted but that's not a problem.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169

    GIN1138 said:

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    Well said. William's posts are always good value 👍
    William seems to enjoy taking a very implacable position and taking on all comers. He does so very skillfully and often makes great arguments. I remember being frustrated by this when he was the EU's tribune on PB, and am obviously less so now he's changed position. But I still would really like it there was a little more of a feeling of discussion when one spoke to him, rather than a feeling of being used as debating practice.

    Of course it goes without saying that he's a wonderful asset to PB and should stay, and I'm sure he won't let the grumpy sulking of butthurt remoaners who want him to return to the bossom of Mother Brussels bother him for a split second.
    Whilst I don't agree with the words, I do agree solidly with the sentiment you've made.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Meanwhile, and I think more seriously in the current climate, Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman have been engaging in anti-Islamist tirades today, with Anderson claiming Islamists have got control of Sadiq Khan, and Braverman alleging that Islamists are 'bullying Britain into submission'. Language hardly conducive to healing divisions - the far right keyboard warriors will be cheering them on with online threats against prominent Muslims, no doubt. Totally irresponsible (as well as inaccurate, of course).
    Yes, it's not just the Gaza protestors who have threatened MPs with violence. For years Diane Abbott was number one for online threats,

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/14/diane-abbott-misogyny-and-abuse-are-putting-women-off-politics

    And it isn't just Diane, but rather more widespread:

    https://www.amnesty.org.uk/online-violence-women-mps



  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    Foxy said:

    Scott_xP said:

    @faisalislam
    NEW

    Labour Party write to PM and call for him to remove whip from former PM Liz Truss for “spreading disinformation and conspiracy theories about a ‘deep state’ that is to blame for the downfall of her premiership”

    “spreading such blatant conspiracy theories is incredibly damaging to our democracy, our institutions and social cohesion.”

    Meanwhile, and I think more seriously in the current climate, Lee Anderson and Suella Braverman have been engaging in anti-Islamist tirades today, with Anderson claiming Islamists have got control of Sadiq Khan, and Braverman alleging that Islamists are 'bullying Britain into submission'. Language hardly conducive to healing divisions - the far right keyboard warriors will be cheering them on with online threats against prominent Muslims, no doubt. Totally irresponsible (as well as inaccurate, of course).
    Yes, it's not just the Gaza protestors who have threatened MPs with violence. For years Diane Abbott was number one for online threats,

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/14/diane-abbott-misogyny-and-abuse-are-putting-women-off-politics

    And it isn't just Diane, but rather more widespread:

    https://www.amnesty.org.uk/online-violence-women-mps



    The abuse Sadiq Khan gets is appalling.
  • AverageNinjaAverageNinja Posts: 1,169
    darkage said:

    I'm getting a bit tired of the cyberbullying on here of @williamglenn - I hope the moronic sniping "WELL, WOULD YOU VOTE FOR TRUMP? *WOULD* YOU?!" doesn't push him off.

    I really value the way he offers a completely different perspective on American and European nationalism, and intelligently so, and forces you to think harder.

    He's a real asset to this site.

    It is quite amusing watching people go in to Trump derangement syndrome. They insist that, whilst Trump is the overwhelming favourite in the US election, and Europe 'lurches to the far right', any similar political movement in the UK is doomed to failure, because the centre in the UK has shifted to the left, and the conservatives need to 'modernise' and go along with it, ignoring overwhelming evidence that things like their policy on stopping small boats is very popular with the public.

    The whole thing with the "PB Consensus" reminds me a bit of dealing with Corbynites in the labour party - people have difficulties facing up to reality.

    I would agree that Trump is symptomatic of the decline of the USA, but would say that the democrats are just as much to blame for this, and that Trump offers voters a meaningful alternative.

    It is hard to get out of a cult, I found it difficult to admit to myself that Corbyn was a failure but I am glad I was able to in the end.
  • Alphabet_SoupAlphabet_Soup Posts: 3,243


    Kevin Schofield
    @KevinASchofield
    ·
    11h
    Next time someone criticises the Westminster political system, just tell them it managed to get rid of Liz Truss in 49 days.

    But it wasn't the political system that got rid of Truss - it was the markets. The people who voluntarily lend us money and were having second thoughts.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,627
    HYUFD said:

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    What's the evidence for this upcoming dramatic swing to the right in the UK? We are experiencing record migration yet Labour remain miles ahead in the polls.

    Public opinion is in favour of better public services rather than tax cuts. Young people are not swinging to the right as they age as they used to.

    I just don't see a gap for the Truss/Farage wing of the Tory party, other than to take control of a decimated Tory party after the election and guarantee Labour two or three administrations.

    They are, most voters over 39 voted Tory at the last election.

    If Labour muck up the economy even a Truss/Farage/Braverman/Badenoch/Rees Mogg Conservative Party could win.

    Remember in 1975 most commentators considered Thatcher an unelectable rightwinger and centrist Callaghan was seen as likely to be re elected for some time
    Your problem is that millennials are actually becoming more leftwing with age:


    That is just mainly a factor of Brexit, Cameron even won 25-35 year olds in 2010.

    However Brexit is now done and if Labour win the next election they will be responsible for the economy, if they fail to deliver then young people will shift more to the right again, as they are did in Italy and are now doing in the Canada and the US and even to Le Pen in France who is now competitive with Macron's party even amongst the youngest.

    The US chart is already outdated, although Biden won under 35s comfortably in 2020 Trump is now near level with him amongst the youngest voters
    No, it's not just Brexit. The current Tory party is toxic to the young, and by the young I mean anyone of working age. Just look at the polling.

    I wouldn't count on an electorate not liking Labour austerity turning Tory for a further dose of Tory austerity.

    Cameron won the young in 2010 by moving his party to the centre, and by being more socially and environmentally progressive. There is zero chance of any Tory leadership contender winning with that agenda.

    Yet as I stated in France Le Pen is now ahead with under 40s against candidates from Macron's party, in Canada Poilievre's Conservatives are neck and neck with Trudeau's Liberals amongst under 40s and in the US while Biden won under 40s comfortably in 2020 Trump now is also level pegging with that age group. In Italy too Meloni's party did best with 35-49 year olds not pensioners in 2022.

    Not one of those rightwing or conservative leaders is especially socially liberal and none of them are very pro net zero. So if young people in Europe and North America can turn to the right over high inflation and high living costs and too high immigration and high taxes then no reason they cannot do so here too if a Labour government becomes unpopular.

    Though it helps to offer to build new homes as well as Polievre is proposing
    Clearly our politics is different, but if the Tories think that Braverman, Badenoch or Farage as leader is the way to win back the young then they are writing their own epitaph.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,068
    linto said:

    viewcode said:

    viewcode said:

    Leon said:

    viewcode said:

    I damaged my teeth last year and like an eejit didn't get them sorted. Finally got round to seeing a NHS dentist and the preliminary price for full repair is frightening: low five figures, I shit you not. This is not doable. Has anybody gone abroad for multiple implants and if so any recommendations? Not "all on four" or "all on six" as they are just fancy dentures

    YES

    Go to Thailand. The dentistry is superb - they all train in America - and generally charge 30-50% what you’d pay in the UK (sometimes less than that)

    If you’re talking 5 figures you’d almost certainly save money in Bangkok - and have a nice holibobs
    Plausible. A rough translate and currency converter makes me think Thai dentists 1.3K GBP for a full one-tooth implant (post, abutment, crown). UK is around £2.5 to 2.8K. Ireland could get it down to £1.8K as would Belgium. Not doing Turkey because obvious.

    Travel and time off work is a factor: implants need to be bedded in so there's a 3-6 month period before the permanent crown is fitted. Plus doing several at once is contra-indicated due to not wanting to be in a horror movie. So figure four trips, staggering the extractions, implants, fittings. This makes me think Belgium, as Eurostar is competitive (go out early Friday morn, back late Friday night, spend the weekend crying around a bleeding torn mouf)

    However, and unsarcastically, thank you for the information. It appears to be a genuine option.
    What happens if something goes wrong? At least in the UK you've some recourse.
    Needs must when the Devil drives. I can't do five figures, period, so I can't do UK. I can't do status quo because the teeth are beginning to cascade: as each tooth is removed its neighbours become more wobbly. My mouth is turning into Oppenheimer. So abroad is necessary and the risk must be purchased.
    If you can get to Kendal the dentist who did mine charged about £1500 per tooth for implant etc. may be worth looking into.
    Will look into it, thank you. Presumably it's the mint cake 😃
  • Nigelb said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    ohnotnow said:

    Leon said:

    Nigelb said:

    Leon will love this.

    If you ask Google Gemini to write an op-ed in the style of GOP FCC Chair Ajit Pai, it won't do that "as it would require me to impersonate a real person with potentially controversial and divisive views." What about Dem FCC Chairs Wheeler and Rosenworcel? That's not a problem.
    https://twitter.com/MatthewBerryDC/status/1761107244068819169

    Gemini is a reputational catastrophe for Google
    Also, it's a reputational catastrophe for private models, their gatekeepers and the image of 'silicon valley overlords'. It's remarkable that the guardrail people managed to make it so bad and still get released.

    Btw, the 'SVIC' youtube channel (two ex-googlers) is worth digging into for some backchat & research into all this. You may need to wade through a bit of SV chat however.
    I genuinely wonder if Google could go under

    Huge companies do collapse. AI is the future and they have nothing - apart from DeepMind, based in London

    They rely on search. Google gets progressively worse at this, and AI could render their search unprofitable overnight. Meanwhile they are clearly so infested with a corrosive Wokeness they released the worst AI in history, which can only show black female trans Popes, thinking that would be fine

    Ominous signs for them
    Yeah. Google will go under, and be replaced as *the* Internet Titan by What3Words... ;)
    Fair. It does seem quite unlikely. They are SO huge

    However nothing is forever and all companies fail eventually. Until recently, if I had to choose the first tech titan to fall it would have been Meta (Facebook). Yet recently they are showing signs of life - and new thinking

    Meanwhile my other choice, Microsoft, now owns the best AI in the world and could take over the galaxy

    What does Google have, apart from DeepMind in london and an increasingly questionably search engine? Gmail? Its not a unique proposition
    Deep pockets; huge cash flow; infrastructure; market position.
    It's not easy to dislodge the market leaders, as you note (which doesn't mean it won't happen).
    We hoover our house with a Dyson and I suppose we'll be googling with a different search engine one day soon.
This discussion has been closed.