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Has Trump ensured the UK rejoins the EU? – politicalbetting.com

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  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,097

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,598
    Leon said:

    Ok a new report says the missiles have actually been launched. But they won’t hit for 6-9 minutes so we have time to do some memes?

    Hope my cat survives.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423
    Leon said:

    Ok a new report says the missiles have actually been launched. But they won’t hit for 6-9 minutes so we have time to do some memes?

    I heard the US government have realised that the Russias are using What3Words for targetng, and they've used square.oath.melt instead of their intended target, hidden.causes.decreased...
  • Options
    MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 25,681
    edited February 14
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    I thought you'd go for a Three Choirs Cathedral.

    Worcester for me.
  • Options
    DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 24,953
    edited February 14

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    I thought you'd go for a Three Choirs Cathedral.

    Worcester for me.
    Nearest target to Three.Choirs.Cathedral is in Rio:

    https://what3words.com/tree.choirs.lateral

    Wouldn't you prefer a good game of chess?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,598
    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    No. That's not what Man's Best Friend is supposed to mean.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423
    I loved it when you nuked Camden. Suitably biblical ending to the place, don't you think?
  • Options
    MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 50,227
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    Not since it lost that central spire.
  • Options
    IanB2IanB2 Posts: 47,699

    I loved it when you nuked Camden. Suitably biblical ending to the place, don't you think?

    It wouldn’t look any worse, once the smoke had cleared.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,097

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
    Yes but when the police themselves are saying it might not be safe for someone to be showing their identity in public it's hard not to take the threat seriously.

    'People overwrought' 'for and against things'

    You make it sound like the threat is inter communal violence based on a foreign conflict. The attempt at two sidesism is pathetic. The threat perceived or otherwise comes entirely from one side. The fear is entirely on the other. Can't you acknowledge that?
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,598

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
    The police did rather more than keep order during the miners' strike. They were combatants.
  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,598
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    No. That's not what Man's Best Friend is supposed to mean.

    What a sweetie!
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,426
    MattW said:

    I wonder where Lord Cameron came up with this analogy.

    Not the one about stepmothers, I hope.

    Meanwhile, in "just a bit of fun" news.
    We have our first MRP to put the Tories below 100 seats. (Find out now / Electoral calculus - 18k sample).

    Con 22%, 80 seats
    Lab 42%, 452 seats
    Lib Dem 11%, 53 seats
    Reform 10%, 0 seats
    Green 7%, 2 seats
    SNP 4%, 40 seats


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1757812934628004203
    It would be a good thing for the Lib Dems to be the Opposition for a few years, I think.

    Though they would need some time to learn how to lead all those committees and so on, and pivot from tactics to strategy.
    Well they aren't going to be the main opposition on 27 seats fewer than the Tories and half their voteshare, even on that poll.

    Survation today of course had the Tories up to 29%
    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1757811607306895407?s=20
  • Options
    mwadamsmwadams Posts: 3,175

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    I thought you'd go for a Three Choirs Cathedral.

    Worcester for me.
    Nearest target to Three.Choirs.Cathedral is in Rio:

    https://what3words.com/tree.choirs.lateral

    Wouldn't you prefer a good game of chess?
    Greetings, Professor Jessop.
  • Options
    kjhkjh Posts: 10,776

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    How did your presentation go?
  • Options
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    No. That's not what Man's Best Friend is supposed to mean.
    ..
    Does he taste like chicken?
  • Options
    rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 58,905
    Had a leaflet delivered today from local Tory MP.

    Pretty chunky sized thing.

    Not one mention of Conservative Party.

    Every colour under the sun used in fairly garish manner across several pages except blue.

    They know they are electoral poison as a party.

  • Options
    moonshinemoonshine Posts: 5,248
    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago
  • Options
    UnpopularUnpopular Posts: 792
    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    It's my cat's birthday today (or so we were told by the people we got him from), much more fun than Valentine's.
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 958
    eek said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    I'm enjoying the debate about the change to the tax treatment of double cab pickup trucks. Essentially townies don't like the people who drive them in town and think its great. Those of us in the sticks realise its a disaster.

    "Just pay the tax" says one - £7k a year? Or "separate business and non-business use". How do you do that when your business is where you live? And separating business and non business use means driving scores of additional miles to swap vehicles which means less work done at more cost.

    I assume the HMRC / Treasury people have never been to the countryside.

    The issue for HMRC is that that type of vehicle is being used by more and more people as a 2 for the price of 1 deal to avoid tax - so I can see why HMRC are cracking down on it.

    Easiest solution is to replace it with a single cab track when you come to replace it and buy a car for personal use -
    How does that work? I know of several local contractors who have these. They buy a double cab because they use the space. They have a business based at home (one is a farm), and when the nearest shop is 10 miles away the idea of separating business and non business is for the birds.

    Its great for fans of EVs as so far they are exempt - BIK is 2%. Maxus have just done a firesale on their first attempt (rear wheel drive only lol) to import a proper one. Ford are to launch an EV Ranger. Bye bye diesel in the medium term.

    But in the short term? Less work gets done at a higher cost. Well done Tories, well done...
    How does that work? Government wants money for tax cuts so anything that looks like abuse (and I can see why double cabs are seen as abuse) is going to be investigated.

    So yep the people near you are collateral damage but hey some of us have been subject to the collateral damage of other HMRC crackdowns for 20+ years and you just have to accept it - while praying that HMRC don’t decide to use you as an example test case
    This whole episode is a good demonstration of how the government stuffs up everything it touches.
    It was clearly less than ideal to have loads of people driving round in double cab pickups they don't really need to to evade BiK payments. It was also massively predictable that it would happen - I think I may well be the only small business owner I know who hasn't got one.

    The root problem is of course that BiK on cars is wildly unfair. Rochdale rides round in his company Tesla paying almost nothing, because he rejoices in a) having loads of money to buy one and b) His use case actually works within the range of a Tesla.
    Meanwhile the guys I bought my business off are about to be stung for shedloads of BiK on their work pickup trucks where the rear seats are used a secure tool storage rather than for passengers, and who actually use the pickup bed for moving heavy items daily. They also have the sort of use patterns which make EVs completely un-viable - frequently doing 300-500 miles in a day, often to do jobs at locations where there is no prospect of charging (eg water works in the middle of wherever).

    The best fix is probably just to abolish BiK on cars full stop. We've effectively done it for EVs, which shows we don't care about the principle of it, we'd do better to just let people buy suitable vehicles through their businesses rather than move keep moving loopholes round.
  • Options

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
    Yes but when the police themselves are saying it might not be safe for someone to be showing their identity in public it's hard not to take the threat seriously.

    'People overwrought' 'for and against things'

    You make it sound like the threat is inter communal violence based on a foreign conflict. The attempt at two sidesism is pathetic. The threat perceived or otherwise comes entirely from one side. The fear is entirely on the other. Can't you acknowledge that?
    There was an Islamic school round here that had to close for a couple of days following threats but it is not about keeping score. And what fear are you talking about? If the Jews in your Scottish example were afraid, they'd not have been wearing Stars of David in the first place. They were not afraid, they were not hiding their identity, it was the police who worried things might kick off in a way that, so far, they have not.
  • Options
    JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 39,423
    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
    If the Russians have invaded space we just need to team up with the aliens.
  • Options
    theProletheProle Posts: 958
    IanB2 said:

    I loved it when you nuked Camden. Suitably biblical ending to the place, don't you think?

    It wouldn’t look any worse, once the smoke had cleared.
    As a bonus, there would be no one left to nimby us out of joining up HS1 and HS2.
  • Options
    DavidLDavidL Posts: 51,668

    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
    If the Russians have invaded space we just need to team up with the aliens.
    Is there no lengths you will not go to get support for Trump?
  • Options
    JonathanJonathan Posts: 20,934
    Is it that Putin is giving another 2hr interview to Tucker Carlson?
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    I wonder where Lord Cameron came up with this analogy.

    Not the one about stepmothers, I hope.

    Meanwhile, in "just a bit of fun" news.
    We have our first MRP to put the Tories below 100 seats. (Find out now / Electoral calculus - 18k sample).

    Con 22%, 80 seats
    Lab 42%, 452 seats
    Lib Dem 11%, 53 seats
    Reform 10%, 0 seats
    Green 7%, 2 seats
    SNP 4%, 40 seats


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1757812934628004203
    It would be a good thing for the Lib Dems to be the Opposition for a few years, I think.

    Though they would need some time to learn how to lead all those committees and so on, and pivot from tactics to strategy.
    Well they aren't going to be the main opposition on 27 seats fewer than the Tories and half their voteshare, even on that poll.

    Survation today of course had the Tories up to 29%
    https://x.com/BritainElects/status/1757811607306895407?s=20
    The considerable divergence in Conservative vote shares makes any kind of generalisation difficult.

    Broadly, we have two sets of polls - High Conservative shares (27-29%) which include Savanta, More In Common, Deltapoll and Survation and Low Conservative share (21-25%) which would be everyone else including Opinium, YouGov and Redfield & Wilton.

    Why the differences? Weighting, sampling, prompting, re-allocation of Don't Knows, prioritising likelihood to vote - all are possibilities. We will of course tomorrow have actual votes cast in actual constituencies in actual elections (ok, by-elections) so we get a more indicative sense.

    Naturally, if it's a poor Conservative vote and turnout is low, it'll be same old story of "protesting in a by-election by staying at home and they'll come back at the General Election". Perhaps but as the saying goes, it's the hope that kills you.
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,646

    Right, I have left this a day out of respect...

    I used to often find myself listening to Steve Wright in the Afternoon when I was a student.

    I thought that the show was shite.

    You were not alone…
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,097
    TSE - Thank you for pointing out those bets some of which were most amusing.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 14
    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,454

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
    Yes but when the police themselves are saying it might not be safe for someone to be showing their identity in public it's hard not to take the threat seriously.

    'People overwrought' 'for and against things'

    You make it sound like the threat is inter communal violence based on a foreign conflict. The attempt at two sidesism is pathetic. The threat perceived or otherwise comes entirely from one side. The fear is entirely on the other. Can't you acknowledge that?
    There was an Islamic school round here that had to close for a couple of days following threats but it is not about keeping score. And what fear are you talking about? If the Jews in your Scottish example were afraid, they'd not have been wearing Stars of David in the first place. They were not afraid, they were not hiding their identity, it was the police who worried things might kick off in a way that, so far, they have not.
    Are you listening to what British Jews have been saying for months? Many admit to hiding their identity in public. Many don't want to go into central London at weekends. Their schools and religious buildings get more police protection than those of others for a reason. Do you think pro Palestine types like Jeremy Corbyn are getting the same scale of abuse that those on the other side get? Yes I'm sure you can come up with the odd anecdote but if you cannot see this disparity then you are willfully blind.
    If they actually listened and became aware of the horror of how they are behaving there would very much be an "Are we the baddies?" moment.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 14
    Labour also going for the U-Turn angle on Rishi

    Could have included Usher’s ‘U-Turn’ really

    Labour is red, the Tories are blue, Rishi Sunak has failed, he's done nothing for you.

    https://x.com/uklabour/status/1757704424640626872?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,008
    edited February 14
    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    edited February 14
    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    I doubt it. What do you care?
  • Options
    turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 15,646

    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
    If the Russians have invaded space we just need to team up with the aliens.
    The good news is that Aliens pretty much only visit the USA, so they are the natural allies…
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    In the light of the judge’s “like” for this intemperately expressed LinkedIn posting (it has been reliably confirmed to me that this is genuine and is from the same judge’s LinkedIn account) I think he should arguably have recused himself from this trial

    https://x.com/barbararich_law/status/1757798126750933144?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,097
    MJW said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    I'm convinced the public authorities now try and go for an easy life rather than stand up for what's right and risk dealing with violence.

    In their defence they probably get little protection, cover or support from their superiors for the latter, but that's not an excuse.
    It's hard but the police are there to maintain order, not to take sides in a potential riot. Possibly they were too cautious. Yesterday someone posted a picture of a Genocide poster near Wes Streeting's office. I happened to be there yesterday and there are also Palestinian flags flying from several lampposts. But there was no damage to or graffiti on the Jewish community centre there, and so far as I know, nor was there to Streeting's office.

    Probably there was no danger from the crowd but if there had been, what then?
    The police are supposed to protect the public.

    'Takes sides in a potential riot?' WTF?

    Do you think it okay for Jewish people to display their identity in public? Or would it be better if they didn't so we can all have an easy life.
    Yes, I think it is OK. And if you read what I said, it was that the danger was most likely all in the police's head. But if it wasn't, what then?

    Forget the Middle East. Let's imagine they were policing the Old Firm Game and three Rangers fans stumbled across thousands of Celtic fans. Would half a dozen coppers be able to hold the line or might they suggest that perhaps the Rangers trio took their scarves off?
    Don't football clubs also have to pay for their own policing? Perhaps that might be part of the answer for the protests?
    Don't police need to uphold the right to protest? And for all that the Middle East has got people overwrought and demonstrating for and against things that are not in the control of people here, there have been no riots and no deaths. This is not the poll tax or the miners' strike.
    Yes but when the police themselves are saying it might not be safe for someone to be showing their identity in public it's hard not to take the threat seriously.

    'People overwrought' 'for and against things'

    You make it sound like the threat is inter communal violence based on a foreign conflict. The attempt at two sidesism is pathetic. The threat perceived or otherwise comes entirely from one side. The fear is entirely on the other. Can't you acknowledge that?
    There was an Islamic school round here that had to close for a couple of days following threats but it is not about keeping score. And what fear are you talking about? If the Jews in your Scottish example were afraid, they'd not have been wearing Stars of David in the first place. They were not afraid, they were not hiding their identity, it was the police who worried things might kick off in a way that, so far, they have not.
    Are you listening to what British Jews have been saying for months? Many admit to hiding their identity in public. Many don't want to go into central London at weekends. Their schools and religious buildings get more police protection than those of others for a reason. Do you think pro Palestine types like Jeremy Corbyn are getting the same scale of abuse that those on the other side get? Yes I'm sure you can come up with the odd anecdote but if you cannot see this disparity then you are willfully blind.
    If they actually listened and became aware of the horror of how they are behaving there would very much be an "Are we the baddies?" moment.
    True but I would like to distinguish between those who are clearly a part of it and those who just seem to have a difficulty in seeing the reality of it.
  • Options
    GIN1138GIN1138 Posts: 21,038
    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is *quite* funny...
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    I doubt it. What do you care?
    I don't particularly.

    No one is obliged to be objective and rational on here - what do you think about Sunak and the Conservatives? Do they deserve re-election or are they the lesser of two evils?
  • Options
    HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 117,426
    edited February 14

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Most Cameroon Tories would of course be Democrats in the US or at most John McCain/Haley RINO Republicans so her reaction is not that a surprise.

    In UK politics only the ERG and Farage, the DUP and ReformUK and Lawrence Fox and far right parties are for Trump and only really Faragites want a deal with Putin like MTG
  • Options
    carnforthcarnforth Posts: 3,299
    isam said:

    In the light of the judge’s “like” for this intemperately expressed LinkedIn posting (it has been reliably confirmed to me that this is genuine and is from the same judge’s LinkedIn account) I think he should arguably have recused himself from this trial

    https://x.com/barbararich_law/status/1757798126750933144?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I suspect that there are some judges who can be perfectly impartial on everything except one topic which they see as totemic or era-defining or outside normal boundaries (be it Israel, Brexit, whatever). There are then those who can be impartial on all topics. Hope the latter are in the majority.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
  • Options

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Er, you can't vote for Cameron, he's an Unelected Has-Been!
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    As I say, no one is obliged to be objective and rational on here...
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,518
    edited February 14

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Pigs (allegedly) are one thing; MTG quite another.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    I know some people like politicians to be combative and direct, but there is surely a limit and a line to when it is just pathetic. That needy, posturing crap just puts me off, like people who randomly swear and be vulgar because they think it is edgy and cool, so they can pretend to be some kind of rebel rather than just being a jackass. It doesn't even have the impact they think it does because if its ubiquitous rather than well chosen it's just boring.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    HYUFD said:

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Most Cameroon Tories would of course be Democrats in the US or at most John McCain/Haley RINO Republicans so her reaction is not that a surprise.

    In UK politics only the ERG and Farage, the DUP and ReformUK and Lawrence Fox and far right parties are for Trump and only really Faragites want a deal with Putin like MTG
    I keep reading this as "Magic: The Gathering" and it's making this thread seem quite bizarre.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    edited February 14

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    That was a high point of his premiership. I'm a little disappointed he's not made more of that positive and made himself the face of western Putin mocking in his post premiership career.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339

    TimS said:

    I wonder where Lord Cameron came up with this analogy.

    Not the one about stepmothers, I hope.

    Meanwhile, in "just a bit of fun" news.
    We have our first MRP to put the Tories below 100 seats. (Find out now / Electoral calculus - 18k sample).

    Con 22%, 80 seats
    Lab 42%, 452 seats
    Lib Dem 11%, 53 seats
    Reform 10%, 0 seats
    Green 7%, 2 seats
    SNP 4%, 40 seats


    https://x.com/Samfr/status/1757812934628004203
    There's a thread in the next few days talking about stepmoms.
    In English, we say "stepmUms" :lol:
    In the north east we say step-mams.
    It’s mom with an o in Birmingham. Perhaps that’s where the Americans got it from.
    Did you hear about the time TSE had sex with his stepmum in an elevator?

    It was wrong on so many levels!

    :lol:
    (Adapted from the Tim Vine joke about multistorey carparks, I think)

  • Options
    SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 20,889

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Starmer keeping Cameron on as Foreign Secretary would be a bold move.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    ohnotnow said:

    HYUFD said:

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Most Cameroon Tories would of course be Democrats in the US or at most John McCain/Haley RINO Republicans so her reaction is not that a surprise.

    In UK politics only the ERG and Farage, the DUP and ReformUK and Lawrence Fox and far right parties are for Trump and only really Faragites want a deal with Putin like MTG
    I keep reading this as "Magic: The Gathering" and it's making this thread seem quite bizarre.
    Players of Magic The Gathering have way more social skills than MTG.
  • Options
    RogerRoger Posts: 19,027
    edited February 14

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Depends. The Star of David could be a religious symbol around the bystanders neck. It could equally be the Israeli flag. around his shoulders We have no way of knowing which it was. Though there should be nothing wrong with flag waving if it was a Pro Israeli rally with a man waving a Palestinian flag the police officer might do the same. Or even a Celtic flag in the middle of a bunch of Rangers supporters
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    York. Because it's in York.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339

    Nigelb said:

    This is pretty odd from the chair of the House Intelligence Committee, as they are reportedly being briefed on it tomorrow.

    Might get Leon BRACING, though.

    https://twitter.com/scottwongDC/status/1757814933167743303
    Democratic source familiar w/threat tells
    @NBCNews: “This is a serious issue that could lead to a destabilizing situation and a national security threat.”

    Described it as a "potential foreign threat" but would not say where the threat is coming from.

    Is this a good time to mention I will be editing PB for a bit?
    "I would like to have seen Montana..."
    "Recreaytion ve-hickle"
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    Unpopular said:

    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    It's my cat's birthday today (or so we were told by the people we got him from), much more fun than Valentine's.
    I may have given my cat some tuna today and wished her a happy valentines.

    I have come to terms with this now.
  • Options
    kle4kle4 Posts: 92,500
    edited February 14
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    That is, of course, a major hurdle that they face. It is one thing to have a successful line to push people away from suppoting Starmer - I do not people who cannot stand him for the reasons expressed - but what is going to be the pull factor they use? Rishi is not popular enough to be one, the economy isn't doing well enough to be one, and it surely is not going to be a pitch for stability or transformation.

    In 2019 it wasn't just that people disliked Corbyn, there were also plenty of people who liked Boris (or at the least supported his principle goal).
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    I doubt it. What do you care?
    I don't particularly.

    No one is obliged to be objective and rational on here - what do you think about Sunak and the Conservatives? Do they deserve re-election or are they the lesser of two evils?
    I’m sorry Stodge, that was a rude reply. I don’t know why I did that, there was no need

    I’d rather the Conservatives win than Labour & I think Sir Keir will come across badly in the campaign & debates. It’s hard to separate the arguments I have on here with how I’d vote though, I don’t really think of myself as a Tory.

    If Boris were in charge still, I’d vote Conservative. I liked the idea of Blue Labour, & I think that’s what he intended to deliver, but then Covid happened. Rishi helped take down Boris so can’t vote for him either

    So I probably won’t vote, & hope the Tories somehow cling on


  • Options
    kinabalukinabalu Posts: 39,598
    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Starmer Starmer Starmer Starmer Starmer Chameleon ... I think this might feature too if they can find a way for Rishi to sing it at PMQs.

    Nice to see a bit of humour from Central Office. Wish them well with it.
  • Options
    viewcodeviewcode Posts: 19,339

    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
    If the Russians have invaded space we just need to team up with the aliens.
    The good news is that Aliens pretty much only visit the USA, so they are the natural allies…
    I am given to understand that they regularly visit quarries in the South-East of England or South Wales, depending on year.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268

    Leon said:

    Something cheering. For the first time in 40 years, all the scaffolding has been removed from Salisbury Cathedral, and she can now be seen in all her purist beauty. Magnificent and peerless


    We hack and sneer at our planning rules but just look at how beautiful and rural that medieval cathedral still looks, with a few developments sensitively nestling into the landscape around it, in a way that simply wouldn't be the case in many other countries.
    Yes, but where are people going to park? Salisbury's economy is going to suffer unless they concrete over all that green space.

    What's the accessibility like? Really needs a dual carriageway to carry visitors to the cathedral.

    And why even have a cathedral? This country is now secular. That space could be used for at least 20 detached homes (plastic grass to reduce maintenance costs).
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    MattW said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Amongst UK police forces, Police Scotland are known for being rather shambolic, and are suffering from reduced funding aiui.

    I'm sure that @Eabhal has more stories than I do, but I note a case last year when Police Scotland downgraded a prosecution from Dangerous Driving to Careless Driving with the reason given to the victim that 'the driver could not remember the incident'.

    Police Scotland had been supplied with video evidence.

    There are other lackadaisical, deliberately crime-tolerating, or possibly corrupt police forces (North Lincs is imo one for road crime, and there are a couple of others), but Police Scotland have big problems.
    Just wait until you see their new 'submit video evidence' system. Boy, is it.... 'remarkable'.
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    viewcode said:

    moonshine said:

    Nukes in space innit, Soyuz launch 5 days ago

    Nah, I doubt it. Don't get caught up in Leon's lunacy.
    If the Russians have invaded space we just need to team up with the aliens.
    The good news is that Aliens pretty much only visit the USA, so they are the natural allies…
    I am given to understand that they regularly visit quarries in the South-East of England or South Wales, depending on year.
    This made my day.
  • Options
    stodge said:

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    As I say, no one is obliged to be objective and rational on here...
    I am objective and rational, which is why I have consistently advised against betting on Lord Cameron becoming PM and/or Tory leader again.
  • Options
    FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,097
    Roger said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Depends. The Star of David could be a religious symbol around the bystanders neck. It could equally be the Israeli flag. around his shoulders We have no way of knowing which it was. Though there should be nothing wrong with flag waving if it was a Pro Israeli rally with a man waving a Palestinian flag the police officer might do the same. Or even a Celtic flag in the middle of a bunch of Rangers supporters
    Yes but it fits with a pattern doesn't it. Police taking down pictures of the hostages, urging pro Israelis to 'get out of central London.'
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    Starmer keeping Cameron on as Foreign Secretary would be a bold move.
    He could use the precedent of having a former PM and appoint Tony Blair.
  • Options
    TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 115,008
    edited February 14
    ohnotnow said:

    Unpopular said:

    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    It's my cat's birthday today (or so we were told by the people we got him from), much more fun than Valentine's.
    I may have given my cat some tuna today and wished her a happy valentines.

    I have come to terms with this now.
    Could be worse.

    Valentine's day:

    First Class Tickets on Eurostar to Paris £490

    Tickets to a show €300

    Dinner : €260

    Bottle of Veuve Clicquot : €150

    Jewellery Gift : €2,750

    144 Red Roses: €500

    Hotel Suite with Butler : €5,750

    The look on my face when she tells me she's on her period : Priceless
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    My favourite. A bold move, for those with little or no shame

    STARMER SUTRA, POSITION 6:

    The Reverse Referendum.




    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757765026293719165?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68292471

    Israel launches 'extensive' strikes in Lebanon after rockets hit army base

    Four people have been killed in an "extensive wave" of Israeli air strikes in Lebanon launched after Hezbollah rocket fire killed a soldier in Israel.

    A woman and two children were killed in the southern Lebanese town of Souaneh, state media and security sources said.

    A man who Hezbollah identified as one of its fighters was killed in Aadchit.

    Israel's military said it hit Hezbollah infrastructure in response to a deadly rocket attack on its base in the northern Israeli town of Safed.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,786
    @SkyNews

    BREAKING: "Multiple people" have been hit by shots fired near to where the Kansas City Chiefs' Super Bowl parade was taking place, police have said
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,518
    .
    viewcode said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    Salisbury has a good claim to being the most beautifully situated of all the great European cathedrals

    Nah. Durham. Every time.
    Lincoln.
    York. Because it's in York.
    Bit of a Shambles, though.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    edited February 14
    MattW said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Amongst UK police forces, Police Scotland are known for being rather shambolic, and are suffering from reduced funding aiui.

    I'm sure that @Eabhal has more stories than I do, but I note a case last year when Police Scotland downgraded a prosecution from Dangerous Driving to Careless Driving with the reason given to the victim that 'the driver could not remember the incident'.

    Police Scotland had been supplied with video evidence.

    There are other lackadaisical, deliberately crime-tolerating, or possibly corrupt police forces (North Lincs is imo one for road crime, and there are a couple of others), but Police Scotland have big problems.
    It's the lack of dashcam portal submission system. This has been a source of huge productivity growth for other forces in the face of large cuts to traffic policing.

    Like usual in Scotland, the police are developing their own portal system rather than just C&P the ones used in England. I've found the police officers I've dealt with highly professional for road traffic offences though, despite needing my signature approximately 20 times per offence.

    Sentencing is a bigger issue. Life changing injuries. 12 months ban, £500 fine. I'm entirely against prison sentences for most offences; this is where a lifetime ban needs to be applied: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-cyclist-life-changing-injuries-32084340.amp
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    isam said:

    My favourite. A bold move, for those with little or no shame

    STARMER SUTRA, POSITION 6:

    The Reverse Referendum.


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757765026293719165?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Starmer Chameleon: "Governing would be easy if your policies were like my dreams."
  • Options
    ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,040
    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Amongst UK police forces, Police Scotland are known for being rather shambolic, and are suffering from reduced funding aiui.

    I'm sure that @Eabhal has more stories than I do, but I note a case last year when Police Scotland downgraded a prosecution from Dangerous Driving to Careless Driving with the reason given to the victim that 'the driver could not remember the incident'.

    Police Scotland had been supplied with video evidence.

    There are other lackadaisical, deliberately crime-tolerating, or possibly corrupt police forces (North Lincs is imo one for road crime, and there are a couple of others), but Police Scotland have big problems.
    It's the lack of dashcam portal submission system. This has been a source of huge productivity growth for other forces in the face of large cuts to traffic policing.

    Like usual in Scotland, the police are developing their own portal system rather than just C&P the ones used in England. I've found the police officers I've dealt with highly professional for road traffic offences though, despite needing my signature approximately 20 times per offence.

    Sentencing is a bigger issue. Life changing injuries. 12 months ban, £500 fine. I'm entirely against prison sentences for most offences; this is where a lifetime ban needs to be applied: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-cyclist-life-changing-injuries-32084340.amp
    It's very bad, you'll be surprised to learn.
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    theProle said:

    eek said:

    eek said:

    FPT

    I'm enjoying the debate about the change to the tax treatment of double cab pickup trucks. Essentially townies don't like the people who drive them in town and think its great. Those of us in the sticks realise its a disaster.

    "Just pay the tax" says one - £7k a year? Or "separate business and non-business use". How do you do that when your business is where you live? And separating business and non business use means driving scores of additional miles to swap vehicles which means less work done at more cost.

    I assume the HMRC / Treasury people have never been to the countryside.

    The issue for HMRC is that that type of vehicle is being used by more and more people as a 2 for the price of 1 deal to avoid tax - so I can see why HMRC are cracking down on it.

    Easiest solution is to replace it with a single cab track when you come to replace it and buy a car for personal use -
    How does that work? I know of several local contractors who have these. They buy a double cab because they use the space. They have a business based at home (one is a farm), and when the nearest shop is 10 miles away the idea of separating business and non business is for the birds.

    Its great for fans of EVs as so far they are exempt - BIK is 2%. Maxus have just done a firesale on their first attempt (rear wheel drive only lol) to import a proper one. Ford are to launch an EV Ranger. Bye bye diesel in the medium term.

    But in the short term? Less work gets done at a higher cost. Well done Tories, well done...
    How does that work? Government wants money for tax cuts so anything that looks like abuse (and I can see why double cabs are seen as abuse) is going to be investigated.

    So yep the people near you are collateral damage but hey some of us have been subject to the collateral damage of other HMRC crackdowns for 20+ years and you just have to accept it - while praying that HMRC don’t decide to use you as an example test case
    This whole episode is a good demonstration of how the government stuffs up everything it touches.
    It was clearly less than ideal to have loads of people driving round in double cab pickups they don't really need to to evade BiK payments. It was also massively predictable that it would happen - I think I may well be the only small business owner I know who hasn't got one.

    The root problem is of course that BiK on cars is wildly unfair. Rochdale rides round in his company Tesla paying almost nothing, because he rejoices in a) having loads of money to buy one and b) His use case actually works within the range of a Tesla.
    Meanwhile the guys I bought my business off are about to be stung for shedloads of BiK on their work pickup trucks where the rear seats are used a secure tool storage rather than for passengers, and who actually use the pickup bed for moving heavy items daily. They also have the sort of use patterns which make EVs completely un-viable - frequently doing 300-500 miles in a day, often to do jobs at locations where there is no prospect of charging (eg water works in the middle of wherever).

    The best fix is probably just to abolish BiK on cars full stop. We've effectively done it for EVs, which shows we don't care about the principle of it, we'd do better to just let people buy suitable vehicles through their businesses rather than move keep moving loopholes round.
    It's a broader problem with taxation and incentives for vehicles. Policies that make sense for the 80% of us who live in urban areas completely screw the rural economy, most obviously fuel duty.

    Some people on the left/green side also support mileage taxation, which is just insane imo. We want to tax short, urban journeys, not long ones in rural areas.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,171

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
  • Options

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
    Lady Cameron might have a few things to say about that.
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,171
    GIN1138 said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is *quite* funny...
    It's the best one I've seen yet from CCHQ.

    Why?

    Because it's kind of funny and it's kind of true.
  • Options
    MJWMJW Posts: 1,454
    kinabalu said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Starmer Starmer Starmer Starmer Starmer Chameleon ... I think this might feature too if they can find a way for Rishi to sing it at PMQs.

    Nice to see a bit of humour from Central Office. Wish them well with it.
    If that's all they have they're screwed.

    This line of attack was exactly what Labour tried to dent David Cameron. It didn't work as a) they put out adverts that made him look a bit cool (check). And b) The public often don't care or sometimes even know a politician has changed positions (check). Look at Boris - who has been all over the place during his political career.

    It's also about accepting reality and assuming all politicians do it. Because they do. You could go through every politician's speeches or personal remarks and find they'd contradicted themselves by advocating positions they later dropped.

    There's always a bit of a bind too - if the Tories want to scare people by saying Labour are reckless profligates and Starmer Corbyn in disguise then highlighting the fact he's ditched the policies you are claiming are crap rather highlights that they've both ditched said policy you say is crap. Plus they are flexible enough to change course when they decide they've messed up - a not entirely undesirable quality in a PM.
  • Options
    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,518
    What could possibly more uniquely American than a shooting taking place at a parade celebrating a football team winning the Super Bowl? We can’t continue living like this. This is what happens when elected officials refuse to act on gun violence. We’ve had f*cking enough of this.
    https://twitter.com/Victorshi2020/status/1757864284519100587
  • Options
    Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 56,171

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
    Lady Cameron might have a few things to say about that.
    You're right.

    It would be a bit cheeky.
  • Options
    GhedebravGhedebrav Posts: 3,148

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
    Lady Cameron might have a few things to say about that.
    Lord Balloonhead was seriously punching when he shacked up with Sam.
  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477

    GIN1138 said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack on him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    It is *quite* funny...
    It's the best one I've seen yet from CCHQ.

    Why?

    Because it's kind of funny and it's kind of true.
    It does have potential. They could also show him playing Twister and straining to reach another contradictory policy.
  • Options
    stodgestodge Posts: 12,984
    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    I doubt it. What do you care?
    I don't particularly.

    No one is obliged to be objective and rational on here - what do you think about Sunak and the Conservatives? Do they deserve re-election or are they the lesser of two evils?
    I’m sorry Stodge, that was a rude reply. I don’t know why I did that, there was no need

    I’d rather the Conservatives win than Labour & I think Sir Keir will come across badly in the campaign & debates. It’s hard to separate the arguments I have on here with how I’d vote though, I don’t really think of myself as a Tory.

    If Boris were in charge still, I’d vote Conservative. I liked the idea of Blue Labour, & I think that’s what he intended to deliver, but then Covid happened. Rishi helped take down Boris so can’t vote for him either

    So I probably won’t vote, & hope the Tories somehow cling on

    No problem - appreciate the kind word but not necessary.

    I understand from where you are coming and I always thought some who voted Conservative in 2019 voted "for Boris" than for the Conservative Party which is fair enough just as you can vote Labour but not be a fan of Starmer.

    I'm not sure where the "Blue Labour" idea has gone. Oddly enough, the Redfield & Wilton "Blue Wall" polling suggests Labour are getting votes in the southern marginals.

    Labour has always had the tension between its liberal side and its conservative side. The re-emergence of a more socially conservative aspect, overtly patriotic and anti-migrant isn't inconceivable - that's one of the reasons why the traditional notions of "left" and "right" are outdated and irrelevant.
  • Options
    Scott_xPScott_xP Posts: 33,786
    @RedfieldWilton

    Starmer leads Sunak by 6% in the Blue Wall, his largest EVER lead in these seats.

    Which of the following do Blue Wall voters think would be the better PM for the UK? (11 Feb)

    Keir Starmer 39% (+3)
    Rishi Sunak 33% (-3)

    Changes +/- 17-18 Jan

    @mikeysmith

    If I were a Tory man in a grey suit, I’d be having serious thoughts about a May election - not to win, but as the only way to stop the bleeding.
  • Options

    isam said:

    My favourite. A bold move, for those with little or no shame

    STARMER SUTRA, POSITION 6:

    The Reverse Referendum.


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757765026293719165?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    Starmer Chameleon: "Governing would be easy if your policies were like my dreams."
    :innocent:


  • Options
    williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 48,477
    EU scales back ambitions for post-Brexit clearing land grab
    Opposition from banks and asset managers and Franco-German tensions seen as undermining early plans


    https://www.ft.com/content/34e41dcf-1b80-4084-b026-9eb4e6eb2ebe
  • Options
    EabhalEabhal Posts: 6,268
    ohnotnow said:

    Eabhal said:

    MattW said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Amongst UK police forces, Police Scotland are known for being rather shambolic, and are suffering from reduced funding aiui.

    I'm sure that @Eabhal has more stories than I do, but I note a case last year when Police Scotland downgraded a prosecution from Dangerous Driving to Careless Driving with the reason given to the victim that 'the driver could not remember the incident'.

    Police Scotland had been supplied with video evidence.

    There are other lackadaisical, deliberately crime-tolerating, or possibly corrupt police forces (North Lincs is imo one for road crime, and there are a couple of others), but Police Scotland have big problems.
    It's the lack of dashcam portal submission system. This has been a source of huge productivity growth for other forces in the face of large cuts to traffic policing.

    Like usual in Scotland, the police are developing their own portal system rather than just C&P the ones used in England. I've found the police officers I've dealt with highly professional for road traffic offences though, despite needing my signature approximately 20 times per offence.

    Sentencing is a bigger issue. Life changing injuries. 12 months ban, £500 fine. I'm entirely against prison sentences for most offences; this is where a lifetime ban needs to be applied: www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scots-cyclist-life-changing-injuries-32084340.amp
    It's very bad, you'll be surprised to learn.
    Is this the thing being piloted in Dundee?
  • Options
    Ghedebrav said:

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
    Lady Cameron might have a few things to say about that.
    Lord Balloonhead was seriously punching when he shacked up with Sam.
    As somebody who has persuaded not one but two women out of my league to marry me, I am glad these things happen.
  • Options
    isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited February 14
    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    stodge said:

    isam said:

    The Conservatives have published a series of ‘Starmer Sutra’ posts on Twitter/X. I’ve said many times I think this is the best line of attack in him, so quite pleased to see it in action

    The Starmer Sutra is the perfect Valentine’s Day gift for the politically promiscuous.

    Written by the father of u-turns, this is the definitive how-to guide on flip-flopping into different positions on anything.

    *Only available in paperback and spineless editions*


    https://x.com/conservatives/status/1757707879484621091?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    As it seems you have a profound dislike for Starmer, will you be voting Conservative at the next election?
    I doubt it. What do you care?
    I don't particularly.

    No one is obliged to be objective and rational on here - what do you think about Sunak and the Conservatives? Do they deserve re-election or are they the lesser of two evils?
    I’m sorry Stodge, that was a rude reply. I don’t know why I did that, there was no need

    I’d rather the Conservatives win than Labour & I think Sir Keir will come across badly in the campaign & debates. It’s hard to separate the arguments I have on here with how I’d vote though, I don’t really think of myself as a Tory.

    If Boris were in charge still, I’d vote Conservative. I liked the idea of Blue Labour, & I think that’s what he intended to deliver, but then Covid happened. Rishi helped take down Boris so can’t vote for him either

    So I probably won’t vote, & hope the Tories somehow cling on

    No problem - appreciate the kind word but not necessary.

    I understand from where you are coming and I always thought some who voted Conservative in 2019 voted "for Boris" than for the Conservative Party which is fair enough just as you can vote Labour but not be a fan of Starmer.

    I'm not sure where the "Blue Labour" idea has gone. Oddly enough, the Redfield & Wilton "Blue Wall" polling suggests Labour are getting votes in the southern marginals.

    Labour has always had the tension between its liberal side and its conservative side. The re-emergence of a more socially conservative aspect, overtly patriotic and anti-migrant isn't inconceivable - that's one of the reasons why the traditional notions of "left" and "right" are outdated and irrelevant.
    Interesting interview with one of the architects of Blue Labour, Maurice Glasman

    https://youtu.be/Pa5vsa1FLKY?si=mJJERLwGJY3OaydV

    Must say though, like Glasman, I wouldn’t really consider myself all that patriotic in a flag waving way; I think patriotism is a bit silly. Internationalism is quite a good concept, but mass immigration of cheap Labour doing over the poorest in a country whilst lining the pockets of the rich is not acceptable
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    Ghedebrav said:

    Lord Cameron is doing a brilliant job, he's getting called out by MTG, which means he is doing the right thing.

    Marjorie Taylor Greene responds to British Foreign Secretary David Cameron urging Congress to pass Ukraine aid:

    “Frankly, he can kiss my ass.”

    MTG is a national embarrassment.


    https://twitter.com/RpsAgainstTrump/status/1757856690244862375

    I am voting and campaigning Tory at the next election to keep Cameron as Foreign Secretary.

    He can only dream of getting called out by Putin himself like Boris was.
    It would be quite interesting if David Cameron took her up on her offer, though.
    Lady Cameron might have a few things to say about that.
    Lord Balloonhead was seriously punching when he shacked up with Sam.
    As somebody who has persuaded not one but two women out of my league to marry me, I am glad these things happen.
    Whoa! You're a bigamist?!!
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    RogerRoger Posts: 19,027

    Roger said:

    Some sort of European version of Nato minus the United States would seem more likely.

    In other news and I'm sorry if this has already been posted but we have footage of a police officer in Edinburgh telling a Jewish person to hide their star of David as it may 'trigger' a group of protesters. Why aren't you all as angry about this as you are with the Tories and their failings?

    https://twitter.com/antisemitism/status/1757759542551548181

    'At a rally in Edinburgh, a PoliceScotland officer asked a Jewish bystander to hide his Star of David, to avoid “triggering” the protesters.

    The police officer is clearly worried that he and his colleagues are heavily outnumbered and that these protesters could pose a threat to Jews, but his response was effectively to stop a passing Jewish man and ask him to hide his identity before continuing on his way.

    Whose rights are actually being protected here, those of law-abiding people or those of mobs of extremists who might be “triggered” by people being Jewish in public?'

    Depends. The Star of David could be a religious symbol around the bystanders neck. It could equally be the Israeli flag. around his shoulders We have no way of knowing which it was. Though there should be nothing wrong with flag waving if it was a Pro Israeli rally with a man waving a Palestinian flag the police officer might do the same. Or even a Celtic flag in the middle of a bunch of Rangers supporters
    Yes but it fits with a pattern doesn't it. Police taking down pictures of the hostages, urging pro Israelis to 'get out of central London.'
    No it doesn't. Someone has clearly tried to mislead here. The Magen David which is tiny would be completely unnecessary in identifying this person as Jewish as he can clearly be seen wearing a Yarmulke which is many times bigger and makes the Magen David superfluous in terms of identification. It was almost certainly an Israeli flag that the policeman was referring to

    It seems he wanted to create an incident that he could film for his website 'Fight Against Anti-Semitism'. An interesting experiment might be someone turning up at the Salisbury Rd Synagogue in Edinburgh wearing a Palestinian flag to see if the policeman is equally polite.
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    NigelbNigelb Posts: 63,518
    No bullshit about the "art of the deal" here. The Koreans know Trump for what he is.

    Allies sign nuclear framework to brace for potential Trump return
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=368799
    Wary of the potential return of former U.S. President Donald Trump to the White House this year, the defense ministries of South Korea and the United States signed a framework document on the Nuclear Consultative Group (NCG), a collaborative mechanism established between the two allies to discuss and coordinate nuclear policy, security, and defense.

    The move appears to be aimed at expediting the full implementation of the nuclear coordination agreement previously signed by South Korea and the U.S. to strengthen Washington's extended deterrence against the growing nuclear threat from Pyongyang.

    With Trump emerging as the leading Republican presidential candidate, concerns are mounting over the potential impact of his reelection on the strengthened security commitments that the Biden administration pledged to Seoul..

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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,126
    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    Ok a new report says the missiles have actually been launched. But they won’t hit for 6-9 minutes so we have time to do some memes?

    Hope my cat survives.
    God knows where the missiles would land if they used leon,wrong,again.
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    FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,126
    IanB2 said:

    kinabalu said:

    IanB2 said:

    Off topic. But. When pet food suppliers email you on Valentines afternoon to ask what you’re doing for your beloved dog today, even I begin to wonder whether that’s going too far.

    No. That's not what Man's Best Friend is supposed to mean.
    ..
    We really need a picture with @IanB2 for scale!
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