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The Rape case decision will make Trump’s WH2024 campaign that much harder – politicalbetting.com

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  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    edited January 27
    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    madmacs said:

    I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.

    US evangelicals are generally obsessed with abortion. And having the Bible interpreted for them by a favourite pastor.

    Remember, this is the bunch that had churches which were actively pro-Slavery.

    Trump gave them the judges to strike down Roe vs Wade. Which had been hinted at, but never delivered by Republican politicians for years. Trump delivered.

    So the pastors sell Trump in the mega-churches.

  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928
    I have been very hawkish on the Ukraine war but do we want US nukes in the UK when in less than 12 months we may have a President who has no regard for the rule of law?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    Four Rwandans were granted refugee status in the UK over “well-founded” fears of persecution at the same time as the government was arguing in court and parliament that the east African country was a safe place to send asylum seekers.

    An investigation by the Observer and the campaign group Led by Donkeys reveals for the first time details of Home Office decisions on Rwandans who have been given asylum in the past four months, claiming they were at risk from the regime.

    The documents raise fresh questions over prime minister Rishi Sunak’s claim that Rwanda is “unequivocally” safe for asylum seekers.


    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/27/revealed-uk-granted-asylum-to-rwandan-refugees-while-arguing-country-was-safe

    Freedom House report for Rwanda in 2023:

    https://freedomhouse.org/country/rwanda/freedom-world/2023

    The Rwandan Patriotic Front (RPF), led by President Paul Kagame, has ruled the country since 1994, when it ousted forces responsible for that year’s genocide and ended a civil war. While the regime has maintained stability and economic growth, it has also suppressed political dissent through pervasive surveillance, intimidation, arbitrary detention, torture, and renditions or suspected assassinations of exiled dissidents.
  • StockyStocky Posts: 10,232
    edited January 27
    Betting tip: there is an arb between BF and Smarkets.

    US election Popular Vote winning party - I've just backed 4.4 Republicans with BF. It's now 4.0. Can lay Republicans at 3.85 with Smarkets. Rules the same as far as I can make out.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
    The Hornet was just a poundshop Mosquito.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    edited January 27

    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Music is just maths - like Chess or Go

    Art is a singularly human concept.

    Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.

    Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.

    Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.

    So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
    So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human

    A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
    The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.

    Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.

    Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.

    Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
    But this is again the same tedious circular argument (which I do not dispute, as it is indispuable, as it is circular) - you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"

    Who could possibly disagree with this?

    You've just swapped the word humans with "context"

    This is not a high level of debate, TBH
    There is a point in there though, isn’t there. Why do people still paint landscapes even though we have superb photography? And the best art tells us something about ourselves, about the artist, about the world. The way AI is set up is that it is pastiche, with no ghost in the machine to make a statement about the meaning of life.
    Why desire a Verneer? Not for the image, but for the fact that Vermeer painted it, and lots of people desire it. An AI new Vermeer has none of that.
    Sometimes they emerge by serendipity.

    I'm still in a Facebook Group called Accidental Renaissance Paintings, which unfortunately went defunct around Covid time.




  • Britain’s top universities are paying middlemen to recruit lucrative overseas students on far lower grades than those required of UK applicants, an undercover investigation has revealed.

    Foreign students can buy their way on to highly competitive degree courses with as little as a handful of C grades at GCSE. The courses require British students to have A or A* grades at A-level.

    Representatives of the elite Russell Group universities were secretly filmed discussing the “back door” routes used to recruit overseas students, who pay much higher fees than their UK counterparts.

    One recruitment official representing four Russell Group universities laughed as he told undercover reporters: “If you can take the lift, why go through the hardest route?”

    He added: “International [students] pay more money and the [universities] will receive almost double, so they give leeway for international students.” He claimed the universities did not publicise the schemes in the UK because British students “would not accept it”. He explained: “It’s not something they want to tell you, but it’s the truth.”...

    ...There are 15 Russell Group universities that offer special one-year pathway courses that allow overseas students to gain access to undergraduate degrees with far lower A-level or GCSE grades than the normal requirements. They are: Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Queen Mary University of London and Queen’s University Belfast.

    The Sunday Times investigation discovered that overseas students wishing to study an economics degree using one of the pathways needed grades of CCC at Bristol; CCD at Durham; DDE at Exeter; DDE at Newcastle; and just a single D at Leeds. Yet the same universities’ A-level entry requirements for UK students is A*AA or AAA. All five universities also accept younger overseas students, who have not taken A-levels, with just five C or B grades at GCSE.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,865

    madmacs said:

    I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.

    Fundamentalism (biblical) established itself in the US in the C19 and Evangelicalism grew out of that.

    In the UK the original”evangelicals” were Methodists not fundies.

    Not really the same thing at all.

    The history in England and UK is complex, but is given fire by the reformation beginning in 1517.

    In its theological history it is massively confused by two traits: firstly it keeps splitting and it is hard to keep up; secondly it is a fusion of two incompatible theologies - one in which there is double predestination (Calvin and friends), and another in which that doctrine is utterly rejected (Wesley and friends). The latter has largely prevailed in recent years but a lot of the language of the older reformed tradition is still around.

    Very few these days are biblical fundamentalists, but quite a lot fondly think they are.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
    There is no just and unjust at 100,000,000 degrees centigrade.

    We live in a world where the comfort of Peace is based not upon tons of gold in dark vaults, but fists of warm, cruel metal.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 43,342

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
    The Hornet was just a poundshop Mosquito.
    TBF, Winkle Brown does beg to differ as I recall (quote from his wiki entry):

    'My favourite in the piston engine (era) is the de Havilland Hornet. For the simple reason it was over-powered. This is an unusual feature in an aircraft, you could do anything on one engine, almost, that you could do on two. It was a 'hot rod Mosquito' really, I always described it as like flying a Ferrari in the sky.'
  • The poll, by Norstat, which recently acquired Panelbase, shows the [SNP] falling further behind Labour than at any point since the morning after the 2014 independence referendum.

    It put Labour on 36 per cent, up three points since its last poll in October, with the SNP on 33 per cent, down four points. These numbers, if repeated at a general election, would give Sir Keir Starmer a huge boost in his bid to lead a majority government by returning 28 Labour MPs — ten more than the SNP.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/most-scots-no-longer-trust-nicola-sturgeon-poll-reveals-crzl5bq90
  • Holyrood VI

    The nationalists would return 47 MSPs by winning 36 per cent in the constituency vote and 30 per cent on the proportional regional list. Labour would have 40 MSPs, with 31 per cent and 29 per cent; the Tories 24 MSPs with 16 per cent and 19 per cent; the Greens ten MSPs with 5 per cent and 9 per cent; and the Lib Dems eight MSPs with 7 per cent on both votes.

    This would produce a unionist majority, which although likely to cause Labour problems in office, would almost certainly vote Sarwar into office to keep the SNP out. Sarwar said it showed his party was resurgent against what he called a “chaotic, incompetent and failing government … mired in a culture of secrecy”.
  • Scots are almost evenly split on the big constitutional question. The new poll found 48 per cent of people were against independence, 47 per cent in favour and 4 per cent unsure.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737
    Leon said:

    MJW said:

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    Music is just maths - like Chess or Go

    Art is a singularly human concept.

    Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.

    Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.

    Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.

    So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
    So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human

    A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
    The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.

    Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.

    Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.

    Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
    But this is again the same tedious circular argument (which I do not dispute, as it is indispuable, as it is circular) - you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"

    Who could possibly disagree with this?

    You've just swapped the word humans with "context"

    This is not a high level of debate, TBH
    Apologies. But I don't think it is the same argument. I never said what AI's will be capable of isn't "art" nor that it won't be popular. Just that for lots of art, the context is what gives it value. Otherwise it's just noise or a nice painting.

    To refer to rock music - why is it that certain songs are viewed as classics while others have been forgotten and now probably only exist in the BBC Archives? Often it's not because one is more mechanically perfect, or a better song than the other, but because one group had the right look and personality, and was in the right time and right place. Context.

    So their, possibly fairly musically mediocre, noodlings or repetitive chords become the art. The way it makes people feel is intrinsically tied to the "who, what, when, where, why" of the music as well as how well it is designed.

    So, yes, I can agree it can replace certain art. Maybe even a lot of what exists in the modern world. But there will always be things it can't as part of what makes them popular, rather than just a Mancunian honking gibberish into a microphone while his mate plays a George Clinton bassline, is its context.

    We'll probably see a glut of AI music, then something like a punk or folk backlash against it that places value on what AI can't replicate.
  • Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    ydoethur said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    I think only in tests - but they created a development with folding wings that could in theory have been carrier based. The Sea Hornet eventually rendered that obsolete.

    More here: https://airscapemag.com/2015/07/26/secrets-of-the-sea-mosquito/
    Thanks. The Firebrand, also in the flypast, appears to have been a bit of a dud. Missed the war and retired after only a few years. Did Blackburn actually build any successful aircraft - apart from the Buccaneer?
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    ydoethur said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    I think only in tests - but they created a development with folding wings that could in theory have been carrier based. The Sea Hornet eventually rendered that obsolete.

    More here: https://airscapemag.com/2015/07/26/secrets-of-the-sea-mosquito/
    Thanks. The Firebrand, also in the flypast, appears to have been a bit of a dud. Missed the war and retired after only a few years. Did Blackburn actually build any successful aircraft - apart from the Buccaneer?
    Skua?
    Roc?

    Oh, sorry, you said sucessful!
  • Labour has surged to its largest lead over the SNP for almost a decade as trust plunged in the Nationalist leadership, according to a new poll.

    Mistrust of Humza Yousaf, the first minister, and dwindling faith in Nicola Sturgeon, his predecessor, who still looms large over the party, has seen a growing chunk of independence supporters switch allegiances.

    In the first survey conducted since the SNP WhatsApp deletion scandal, the results suggest Labour has secured a three-point lead over the Nationalists for the general election.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/scottish-labour-has-greatest-lead-over-snp-in-a-decade-9k9ng6cqj
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    Britain’s top universities are paying middlemen to recruit lucrative overseas students on far lower grades than those required of UK applicants, an undercover investigation has revealed.

    Foreign students can buy their way on to highly competitive degree courses with as little as a handful of C grades at GCSE. The courses require British students to have A or A* grades at A-level.

    Representatives of the elite Russell Group universities were secretly filmed discussing the “back door” routes used to recruit overseas students, who pay much higher fees than their UK counterparts.

    One recruitment official representing four Russell Group universities laughed as he told undercover reporters: “If you can take the lift, why go through the hardest route?”

    He added: “International [students] pay more money and the [universities] will receive almost double, so they give leeway for international students.” He claimed the universities did not publicise the schemes in the UK because British students “would not accept it”. He explained: “It’s not something they want to tell you, but it’s the truth.”...

    ...There are 15 Russell Group universities that offer special one-year pathway courses that allow overseas students to gain access to undergraduate degrees with far lower A-level or GCSE grades than the normal requirements. They are: Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Queen Mary University of London and Queen’s University Belfast.

    The Sunday Times investigation discovered that overseas students wishing to study an economics degree using one of the pathways needed grades of CCC at Bristol; CCD at Durham; DDE at Exeter; DDE at Newcastle; and just a single D at Leeds. Yet the same universities’ A-level entry requirements for UK students is A*AA or AAA. All five universities also accept younger overseas students, who have not taken A-levels, with just five C or B grades at GCSE.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx

    Did the LSE suffer any loss of reputation as a result of the Gaddafi scandal?

    Seven or eight years ago I went for a day at the county cricket with my father. Sitting behind us were two academics discussing the low standard of English of many foreign students. Of course the University needed the money so that was that.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,475

    madmacs said:

    I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.

    US evangelicals are generally obsessed with abortion. And having the Bible interpreted for them by a favourite pastor.

    Remember, this is the bunch that had churches which were actively pro-Slavery.

    Trump gave them the judges to strike down Roe vs Wade. Which had been hinted at, but never delivered by Republican politicians for years. Trump delivered.

    So the pastors sell Trump in the mega-churches.

    The obsession with abortion is relatively recent, a substitute after they lost on segregation. See https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/05/10/abortion-history-right-white-evangelical-1970s-00031480
  • Well.


  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    Scott_xP said:

    Leon said:

    you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"

    This is an axiom, not a circular argument.

    Give us one example over all of history of art not made by a human?

    You can't. It doesn't exist.

    Your current argument is that in the future machines could produce art, but only by pretending to be human.

    And if they are not really human, it's not really art.

    It may be beautiful. It may be desirable. Diamonds are both. They are not art.
    So, the same argument again, but slightly reworded

    This is like your Brexit monomania

    "Brexit is shit"

    "Only humans can make art"

    We get it, thanks, enough now, have a lie down
    Will you shut the fuck up about AI, every fucking thread you derail with your monomania.
    I can’t help it if my arguments/thoughts/interests are more interesting than yours. Sorry
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
    The Hornet was just a poundshop Mosquito.
    TBF, Winkle Brown does beg to differ as I recall (quote from his wiki entry):

    'My favourite in the piston engine (era) is the de Havilland Hornet. For the simple reason it was over-powered. This is an unusual feature in an aircraft, you could do anything on one engine, almost, that you could do on two. It was a 'hot rod Mosquito' really, I always described it as like flying a Ferrari in the sky.'
    The Hornet was the apotheosis of the De Havilland wooden construction technique, along with everything they’d learnt of building fast aircraft.

    According to those looking at reconstructing a Hornet (there are some metal bits left) the woodwork is an extreme version of what the Mosquito used - custom plywood designed to take the loads, with the layers made of strips set at different angles. Apparently learning how to produce that will be a serious undertaking.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
  • Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
    Well, Yousaf's net score is worse than Sarwar and Starmer.


  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,908
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
    The Hornet was just a poundshop Mosquito.
    TBF, Winkle Brown does beg to differ as I recall (quote from his wiki entry):

    'My favourite in the piston engine (era) is the de Havilland Hornet. For the simple reason it was over-powered. This is an unusual feature in an aircraft, you could do anything on one engine, almost, that you could do on two. It was a 'hot rod Mosquito' really, I always described it as like flying a Ferrari in the sky.'
    That sounds like a man who did not drive Ferraris ! :smile:
  • Just imagine how well Labour would be doing in Scotland if Starmer wasn't a dud.
  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
    There is no just and unjust at 100,000,000 degrees centigrade.

    We live in a world where the comfort of Peace is based not upon tons of gold in dark vaults, but fists of warm, cruel metal.
    "Oppenheimer wanted to own the atomic bomb. He wanted to be the man who moved the Earth. He talks about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle. Well I'm here to tell you that I *know* J. Robert Oppenheimer, and if he could do it all over, he'd do it all the same. You know he's never once said that he regrets Hiroshima? He'd do it all over. Why? Because it made him the most important man who ever lived."
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,928

    Just imagine how well Labour would be doing in Scotland if Starmer wasn't a dud.

    It's a little depressing that whilst the SNP are sliding support for independence remains an even split. An awful lot more work needs to be done for the Union in the medium term.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    Britain’s top universities are paying middlemen to recruit lucrative overseas students on far lower grades than those required of UK applicants, an undercover investigation has revealed.

    Foreign students can buy their way on to highly competitive degree courses with as little as a handful of C grades at GCSE. The courses require British students to have A or A* grades at A-level.

    Representatives of the elite Russell Group universities were secretly filmed discussing the “back door” routes used to recruit overseas students, who pay much higher fees than their UK counterparts.

    One recruitment official representing four Russell Group universities laughed as he told undercover reporters: “If you can take the lift, why go through the hardest route?”

    He added: “International [students] pay more money and the [universities] will receive almost double, so they give leeway for international students.” He claimed the universities did not publicise the schemes in the UK because British students “would not accept it”. He explained: “It’s not something they want to tell you, but it’s the truth.”...

    ...There are 15 Russell Group universities that offer special one-year pathway courses that allow overseas students to gain access to undergraduate degrees with far lower A-level or GCSE grades than the normal requirements. They are: Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Queen Mary University of London and Queen’s University Belfast.

    The Sunday Times investigation discovered that overseas students wishing to study an economics degree using one of the pathways needed grades of CCC at Bristol; CCD at Durham; DDE at Exeter; DDE at Newcastle; and just a single D at Leeds. Yet the same universities’ A-level entry requirements for UK students is A*AA or AAA. All five universities also accept younger overseas students, who have not taken A-levels, with just five C or B grades at GCSE.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx

    Did the LSE suffer any loss of reputation as a result of the Gaddafi scandal?

    Seven or eight years ago I went for a day at the county cricket with my father. Sitting behind us were two academics discussing the low standard of English of many foreign students. Of course the University needed the money so that was that.
    Has the LSE ever been really good? Economics being a bit of a smoke and mirrors affair it seems hard to judge. I've always assumed they were good, but perhaps that's just because they insisted they were.

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
    There is no just and unjust at 100,000,000 degrees centigrade.

    We live in a world where the comfort of Peace is based not upon tons of gold in dark vaults, but fists of warm, cruel metal.
    "Oppenheimer wanted to own the atomic bomb. He wanted to be the man who moved the Earth. He talks about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle. Well I'm here to tell you that I *know* J. Robert Oppenheimer, and if he could do it all over, he'd do it all the same. You know he's never once said that he regrets Hiroshima? He'd do it all over. Why? Because it made him the most important man who ever lived."
    I think it was Goves who said Oppenheimer thought the bomb was a sin. And wanted to be the guiltiest sinner.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Just imagine how well Labour would be doing in Scotland if Starmer wasn't a dud.

    It's a little depressing that whilst the SNP are sliding support for independence remains an even split. An awful lot more work needs to be done for the Union in the medium term.
    I think support for Indy might even go higher as the SNP sink

    As the Nats disappear Indy becomes a vague noble aspiration not something to seriously worry about. Who wouldn’t vaguely, nobly “aspire” to be independent? YES INDY!

    A referendum with the SNP in power would be very different. YES would shrink
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,421

    Britain’s top universities are paying middlemen to recruit lucrative overseas students on far lower grades than those required of UK applicants, an undercover investigation has revealed.

    Foreign students can buy their way on to highly competitive degree courses with as little as a handful of C grades at GCSE. The courses require British students to have A or A* grades at A-level.

    Representatives of the elite Russell Group universities were secretly filmed discussing the “back door” routes used to recruit overseas students, who pay much higher fees than their UK counterparts.

    One recruitment official representing four Russell Group universities laughed as he told undercover reporters: “If you can take the lift, why go through the hardest route?”

    He added: “International [students] pay more money and the [universities] will receive almost double, so they give leeway for international students.” He claimed the universities did not publicise the schemes in the UK because British students “would not accept it”. He explained: “It’s not something they want to tell you, but it’s the truth.”...

    ...There are 15 Russell Group universities that offer special one-year pathway courses that allow overseas students to gain access to undergraduate degrees with far lower A-level or GCSE grades than the normal requirements. They are: Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Queen Mary University of London and Queen’s University Belfast.

    The Sunday Times investigation discovered that overseas students wishing to study an economics degree using one of the pathways needed grades of CCC at Bristol; CCD at Durham; DDE at Exeter; DDE at Newcastle; and just a single D at Leeds. Yet the same universities’ A-level entry requirements for UK students is A*AA or AAA. All five universities also accept younger overseas students, who have not taken A-levels, with just five C or B grades at GCSE.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx

    So what? It is clear that the universities do not need students to have such high grades in order to cope with the courses, they are just used as a form of rationing. A scandal would be if one set of students were marked according to a lower standard in their degree exams.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,805

    Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
  • isam said:

    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I am trying to think of a recent example of a journalist failing to become an MP at their first attempt then continuing their journalism career until they finally becoming an MP?

    Paul Waugh to be PM 2046.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447

    These guys are such bellends
    Galloway has, in the past, been remarkably effective at gaining support from Muslim voters. He's beaten Labour twice - Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005, and Bradford West in the 2012 by-election. If there's a sizeable Muslim vote in Rochdale he could do very well indeed.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 43,469
    isam said:

    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    He can still have a career in journalism, but he cannot really present himself as being neutral when it comes to politics.

    Where's Waugh been working recently? It feels like years since I've last seen anything from him - but that might just be the media I'm consuming.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730

    Britain’s top universities are paying middlemen to recruit lucrative overseas students on far lower grades than those required of UK applicants, an undercover investigation has revealed.

    Foreign students can buy their way on to highly competitive degree courses with as little as a handful of C grades at GCSE. The courses require British students to have A or A* grades at A-level.

    Representatives of the elite Russell Group universities were secretly filmed discussing the “back door” routes used to recruit overseas students, who pay much higher fees than their UK counterparts.

    One recruitment official representing four Russell Group universities laughed as he told undercover reporters: “If you can take the lift, why go through the hardest route?”

    He added: “International [students] pay more money and the [universities] will receive almost double, so they give leeway for international students.” He claimed the universities did not publicise the schemes in the UK because British students “would not accept it”. He explained: “It’s not something they want to tell you, but it’s the truth.”...

    ...There are 15 Russell Group universities that offer special one-year pathway courses that allow overseas students to gain access to undergraduate degrees with far lower A-level or GCSE grades than the normal requirements. They are: Durham, Bristol, Exeter, Warwick, Nottingham, Leeds, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Cardiff, Sheffield, Birmingham, Southampton, Queen Mary University of London and Queen’s University Belfast.

    The Sunday Times investigation discovered that overseas students wishing to study an economics degree using one of the pathways needed grades of CCC at Bristol; CCD at Durham; DDE at Exeter; DDE at Newcastle; and just a single D at Leeds. Yet the same universities’ A-level entry requirements for UK students is A*AA or AAA. All five universities also accept younger overseas students, who have not taken A-levels, with just five C or B grades at GCSE.


    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/cash-for-courses-the-foreign-students-with-low-grades-at-top-universities-pcskjb6xx

    So what? It is clear that the universities do not need students to have such high grades in order to cope with the courses, they are just used as a form of rationing. A scandal would be if one set of students were marked according to a lower standard in their degree exams.
    That happens all the time anyway. University QA processes would be a joke if they were funny.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,421

    Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
    I still don't understand the SNP campervan thing.
  • Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    Hypocritical evangelical Christians?

    I am shocked, I tell you, shocked...

  • Sunil_PrasannanSunil_Prasannan Posts: 52,122

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
    There is no just and unjust at 100,000,000 degrees centigrade.

    We live in a world where the comfort of Peace is based not upon tons of gold in dark vaults, but fists of warm, cruel metal.
    "Oppenheimer wanted to own the atomic bomb. He wanted to be the man who moved the Earth. He talks about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle. Well I'm here to tell you that I *know* J. Robert Oppenheimer, and if he could do it all over, he'd do it all the same. You know he's never once said that he regrets Hiroshima? He'd do it all over. Why? Because it made him the most important man who ever lived."
    I think it was Groves who said Oppenheimer thought the bomb was a sin. And wanted to be the guiltiest sinner.
    "You don't get to commit the sin and then ask all of us to feel sorry for you when there are consequences."
  • Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
    I still don't understand the SNP campervan thing.
    Basically the SNP became an absolute monarchy.

    The leadership thought they could do whatever they liked.

    I suspect it was going to be used in an election campaign.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125

    isam said:

    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    He can still have a career in journalism, but he cannot really present himself as being neutral when it comes to politics.

    Where's Waugh been working recently? It feels like years since I've last seen anything from him - but that might just be the media I'm consuming.
    He's the i commentator on politics.

    The editor said last week that basically not happy with turn of events and Waugh may write for them again but not as pol commentator iirc.

  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730
    isam said:

    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I knew he'd retired from cricket, but I didn't think he was eligible to go into U.K. politics?
  • Hypocritical evangelical Christians?

    I am shocked, I tell you, shocked...

    It's the same logic as opposing abortion because you believe in life but also somehow supporting the death penalty.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447

    These guys are such bellends
    Galloway has, in the past, been remarkably effective at gaining support from Muslim voters. He's beaten Labour twice - Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005, and Bradford West in the 2012 by-election. If there's a sizeable Muslim vote in Rochdale he could do very well indeed.
    Bit of an assumption on my part but the winning candidate for Lab is Azhar Ali OBE
    @CllrAzharAli

    Possibly he's a practising muslim?

  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125

    isam said:

    Paul Waugh has failed to become Labour’s candidate in Rochdale and. as a Labour member, his future journalism could be seen as a bit biased… Azhar Alli beat him to it

    Meanwhile

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza


    https://x.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447?s=46&t=CW4pL-mMpTqsJXCdjW0Z6Q

    I am trying to think of a recent example of a journalist failing to become an MP at their first attempt then continuing their journalism career until they finally becoming an MP?

    Paul Waugh to be PM 2046.
    Not sure he is up to the bants on HIGNFY?


  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447

    These guys are such bellends
    Galloway has, in the past, been remarkably effective at gaining support from Muslim voters. He's beaten Labour twice - Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005, and Bradford West in the 2012 by-election. If there's a sizeable Muslim vote in Rochdale he could do very well indeed.
    Bit of an assumption on my part but the winning candidate for Lab is Azhar Ali OBE
    @CllrAzharAli

    Possibly he's a practising muslim?

    OBE isn't a Muslim name.
  • noneoftheabovenoneoftheabove Posts: 23,156

    Nigelb said:

    Fishing said:

    nico679 said:

    We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?

    Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
    Nuclear weapons are Truth.

    You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.



    Even the maddest know this.



    You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
    I just like the Truth.
    "You drop a bomb, and it falls on the just and the unjust. I don't wish the culmination of three centuries of physics to be a weapon of mass destruction."
    There is no just and unjust at 100,000,000 degrees centigrade.

    We live in a world where the comfort of Peace is based not upon tons of gold in dark vaults, but fists of warm, cruel metal.
    "Oppenheimer wanted to own the atomic bomb. He wanted to be the man who moved the Earth. He talks about putting the nuclear genie back in the bottle. Well I'm here to tell you that I *know* J. Robert Oppenheimer, and if he could do it all over, he'd do it all the same. You know he's never once said that he regrets Hiroshima? He'd do it all over. Why? Because it made him the most important man who ever lived."
    Not bad for someone starting out as a small time bookie gangster in Small Heath to be fair.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
    I still don't understand the SNP campervan thing.
    Given the length of time that has transpired I'm assuming no criminal charges are going to end up happening, but the campervan was a really baffling detail, since there doesn't seem to be any explanation that is not at best completely silly and needless.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Can our universities cope with the culture shock of an influx of people more focused upon studious advancement?
  • Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    Are these the same first hand sources that inaccurately told you about kids and a lack of potty training only happened after Covid?
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government
    Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."

    https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-chairman-to-leave-amid-row-with-government-13057745

    However, the government is understood to want to appoint a Whitehall insider to the role as it looks to strengthen the Post Office's corporate governance.

    Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.

    I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
    Has anyone looked into the availability of Dick?
    I'm available.

    They'll probably appoint Dido Harding. Or some other no-mark.
    “A safe pair of hands” is what will be found

    AKA someone who knows that blame stops at a certain level.
  • DecrepiterJohnLDecrepiterJohnL Posts: 28,421
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    There is more studying and less socialising anyway. Students are consumers now they are going heavily into debt to pony up £10,000 a year.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,903
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    A really very good post and concise summary.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    They will be very grateful if they can retain any, and ecstatic if they retain that many. The LDs are also seemingly very efficient with their vote share in Scotland, since they do worse on that score than England I believe.
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Scots are almost evenly split on the big constitutional question. The new poll found 48 per cent of people were against independence, 47 per cent in favour and 4 per cent unsure.

    Doesn't seem to have shifted much in quite some time. That's very worrying for longer term prospects, but at least it's not getting worse I suppose.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    kle4 said:

    Sturgeon LOL

    A new poll for the Sunday Times shows that a majority of Scottish voters say they do not trust [Nicola Sturgeon], and it is noteworthy that almost one in four SNP supporters are now also in that camp. She is, at best, now just another politician.

    Her net trust rating is -19, with almost a quarter (24 per cent) of SNP voters saying they do not trust her. This is a huge drop from the pandemic, where she peaked with a score of +18 on trustworthiness in February 2021.

    She's gone down the plughole with a gurgle almost as loud and fruity as Salmond. Frankly, surprised she's only in negative ratings to the power of 19. Wonder how Humza is performing, as he's taken a bit of flak from the Covid inquiry.
    I still don't understand the SNP campervan thing.
    Given the length of time that has transpired I'm assuming no criminal charges are going to end up happening, but the campervan was a really baffling detail, since there doesn't seem to be any explanation that is not at best completely silly and needless.
    Police Scotland know one thing - “How do you shoot the Devil in the back? What if you miss?”

    They will keep kicking that can down the road. I expect the result of the investigation after the Trams enquiry reports and all the new ferries have completed 50 years of service.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Actually @Leon has got to the very nub of it all.

    What is the purpose of higher education?

    Middle class finishing school? Hedonistic drug party camp (and why not - you only live once!!). Vocational factory of degrees for employers. Mind-expanding years of enlightened and guided reading of the western canon? Chance to leave home and escape small town minds? Prep skool for PhD? Massive foreign currency earner? Source of actual jobs in run-down otherwise totally forgotten provincial towns with names like Lincoln?

    As a society we still have not decided.

    One of my sixth form teachers back in early 1980s put it bluntly and it has stuck in my mind: "you go as its a real chance to meet your future wife/husband".

    Dear readers. I did not.




  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    Are these the same first hand sources that inaccurately told you about kids and a lack of potty training only happened after Covid?
    The relative introversion of Chinese students is a fact, not an opinion

    https://openpress.sussex.ac.uk/ideasforactivelearning/chapter/using-formative-assessment-to-activate-chinese-quiet-students-english-learning/

    Tell you what, why don’t you ban me for some spurious reason again
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    From what little evidence we have - council by-elections - the Scots Tory vote is holding up pretty well when its in a ward where they are the main competition with the SNP. They held a seat in Stirling quite comfortably on Thursday, for instance.( https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1750904501786075573 ) Dislike of the SNP trumps disapproval of the Tories at Westminster for many unionist voters.

    Need to bear in mind that while the Tory vote will likely tank in the Central Belt - to the benefit of Labour - it will prove much more resilient where they are defending seats or are the main challengers to the SNP. Overall opinion polling figures for Scotland will likely miss these regional variations.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    edited January 27

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Actually @Leon has got to the very nub of it all.

    What is the purpose of higher education?

    Middle class finishing school? Hedonistic drug party camp (and why not - you only live once!!). Vocational factory of degrees for employers. Mind-expanding years of enlightened and guided reading of the western canon? Chance to leave home and escape small town minds? Prep skool for PhD? Massive foreign currency earner? Source of actual jobs in run-down otherwise totally forgotten provincial towns with names like Lincoln?

    As a society we still have not decided.

    One of my sixth form teachers back in early 1980s put it bluntly and it has stuck in my mind: "you go as its a real chance to meet your future wife/husband".

    Dear readers. I did not.




    I thought it was “all of the above”?

    That’s the point of the less rigid regime than school - it’s a chance to take out of the experience what you want. To an extent.
  • GardenwalkerGardenwalker Posts: 21,317
    I see the debauch of British universities continues apace.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    There is more studying and less socialising anyway. Students are consumers now they are going heavily into debt to pony up £10,000 a year.
    True. But I believe this compounds it
  • kle4kle4 Posts: 96,578

    Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    From what little evidence we have - council by-elections - the Scots Tory vote is holding up pretty well when its in a ward where they are the main competition with the SNP. They held a seat in Stirling quite comfortably on Thursday, for instance.( https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1750904501786075573 ) Dislike of the SNP trumps disapproval of the Tories at Westminster for many unionist voters.

    Need to bear in mind that while the Tory vote will likely tank in the Central Belt - to the benefit of Labour - it will prove much more resilient where they are defending seats or are the main challengers to the SNP. Overall opinion polling figures for Scotland will likely miss these regional variations.
    There were seats in 2017 where the Tories were behind Labour in seats but ended up winning, as apparently locals looking to tactically vote unionist decided they were the better prospect despite that. I suppose a similar thing could happen in reverse, with Slab being seen as more viable a challenger even if not actually second at the last election in a few seats.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730

    I see the debauch of British universities continues apace.

    Very soon they'll all be as bad as Oxford's History faculty.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 72,195
    MattW said:

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Nigelb said:

    Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.

    Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.

    The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.

    What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?

    Yes.
    Torpedo bomber.

    They didn't make many.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
    Or Eric Winkle Brown talking about Mosquitos landing on aircraft carriers, in connection with using the Highball Bouncing Bombs in the Pacific, which project did not go anywhere in the end.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9Hjne0OA4w
    There was also talk about Highball from the De Havilland Sea Hornet. Got as far as testing carrying them, IIRC

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Hornet
    The Hornet was just a poundshop Mosquito.
    TBF, Winkle Brown does beg to differ as I recall (quote from his wiki entry):

    'My favourite in the piston engine (era) is the de Havilland Hornet. For the simple reason it was over-powered. This is an unusual feature in an aircraft, you could do anything on one engine, almost, that you could do on two. It was a 'hot rod Mosquito' really, I always described it as like flying a Ferrari in the sky.'
    That sounds like a man who did not drive Ferraris ! :smile:
    It was operationally reliable in service, which is not exactly characteristic.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,713
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    I take it this is the same guy who was monitoring his students to see how much 'flirting' they were doing with each other. He does appear to have a somewhat morbid fascination with the social lives of young people.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 63,125

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Actually @Leon has got to the very nub of it all.

    What is the purpose of higher education?

    Middle class finishing school? Hedonistic drug party camp (and why not - you only live once!!). Vocational factory of degrees for employers. Mind-expanding years of enlightened and guided reading of the western canon? Chance to leave home and escape small town minds? Prep skool for PhD? Massive foreign currency earner? Source of actual jobs in run-down otherwise totally forgotten provincial towns with names like Lincoln?

    As a society we still have not decided.

    One of my sixth form teachers back in early 1980s put it bluntly and it has stuck in my mind: "you go as its a real chance to meet your future wife/husband".

    Dear readers. I did not.




    I thought it was “all of the above”?

    That’s the point of the less rigid regime than school - it’s a chance to take out of the experience what you want. To an extent.
    Fair point. But the government should accept that as the point and not continually try and make it all about getting a job at the end (other than oxbridge where they all went - that's a special case etc etc etc)...
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,949
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Aren't you missing the point that there are a limited number of places at universities and colleges.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,961
    edited January 27
    ydoethur said:

    I see the debauch of British universities continues apace.

    Very soon they'll all be as bad as Oxford's History faculty.
    There should be only one UK university, the University of Cambridge, the one with all those Nobel prizes.

    University should solely for those who excel academically.

    PS the last two words of your post are redundant.
  • Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    From what little evidence we have - council by-elections - the Scots Tory vote is holding up pretty well when its in a ward where they are the main competition with the SNP. They held a seat in Stirling quite comfortably on Thursday, for instance.( https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1750904501786075573 ) Dislike of the SNP trumps disapproval of the Tories at Westminster for many unionist voters.

    Need to bear in mind that while the Tory vote will likely tank in the Central Belt - to the benefit of Labour - it will prove much more resilient where they are defending seats or are the main challengers to the SNP. Overall opinion polling figures for Scotland will likely miss these regional variations.
    The other aspect which could make things really messy for the SNP if Alba put up some candidates.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730
    edited January 27
    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Aren't you missing the point that there are a limited number of places at universities and colleges.
    Not for overseas students.

    Indeed, not for domestic students at Russell Group uni - one of Gove's stupidest mistakes in a remarkably strong field of competition.

    Even if that were an issue, surely the places should be reserved for those who would actually, y'know, learn shit? Any fool can go on the piss for three years in a random city.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    So have I. A further problem is that Chinese students tend to contribute very little to group or project work. It's because the approach to teaching in China does not encourage independent thinking or research. Just a thing. You really don't want to be in a class with majority Chinese/South Asian. Everyone knows this who works in HE but it is unspoken for obvious reasons. The unis need the cash.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Actually @Leon has got to the very nub of it all.

    What is the purpose of higher education?

    Middle class finishing school? Hedonistic drug party camp (and why not - you only live once!!). Vocational factory of degrees for employers. Mind-expanding years of enlightened and guided reading of the western canon? Chance to leave home and escape small town minds? Prep skool for PhD? Massive foreign currency earner? Source of actual jobs in run-down otherwise totally forgotten provincial towns with names like Lincoln?

    As a society we still have not decided.

    One of my sixth form teachers back in early 1980s put it bluntly and it has stuck in my mind: "you go as its a real chance to meet your future wife/husband".

    Dear readers. I did not.




    I thought it was “all of the above”?

    That’s the point of the less rigid regime than school - it’s a chance to take out of the experience what you want. To an extent.
    Fair point. But the government should accept that as the point and not continually try and make it all about getting a job at the end (other than oxbridge where they all went - that's a special case etc etc etc)...
    I think getting some job related stuff out of it is a good idea. Note that doing a History degree (or similar) followed by a conversion Masters in Business/IT seems a popular choice these days.

    I’ve hired a number of people who’ve done such and they see to have got some breadth to their education and thinking.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,326
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    The effect on students here who get the same grades as these overseas students but are denied a place because they don't come with enough money attached is probably more serious.
  • EPGEPG Posts: 6,653
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    Bollix. You are just parroting racist notions about emotionless Chinese robots. As you may well be aware from your own experiences, Asians and Westerners can often get along intimately well. Pound shop Taki strikes again.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    The effect on students here who get the same grades as these overseas students but are denied a place because they don't come with enough money attached is probably more serious.
    I had a (domestic) student who got into a Russell Group uni via one of these foundation courses with three Cs.

    She is now an adviser to the DfT despite having no knowledge of either geography or transport systems.

    Make of that what you will.
  • BurgessianBurgessian Posts: 2,812

    Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    From what little evidence we have - council by-elections - the Scots Tory vote is holding up pretty well when its in a ward where they are the main competition with the SNP. They held a seat in Stirling quite comfortably on Thursday, for instance.( https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1750904501786075573 ) Dislike of the SNP trumps disapproval of the Tories at Westminster for many unionist voters.

    Need to bear in mind that while the Tory vote will likely tank in the Central Belt - to the benefit of Labour - it will prove much more resilient where they are defending seats or are the main challengers to the SNP. Overall opinion polling figures for Scotland will likely miss these regional variations.
    The other aspect which could make things really messy for the SNP if Alba put up some candidates.
    Marginal impact. Everyone loathes Salmond despite his attempts at rehabilitation. The Greens would be much more of a problem for the SNP if they stand, particularly in urban/yuppy type seats.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606
    edited January 27
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Aren't you missing the point that there are a limited number of places at universities and colleges.
    Not for overseas students.

    Indeed, not for domestic students at Russell Group uni - one of Gove's stupidest mistakes in a remarkably strong field of competition.

    Even if that were an issue, surely the places should be reserved for those who would actually, y'know, learn shit? Any fool can go on the piss for three years in a random city.
    Uni should be “all of the above”

    Socially, educationally, culturally, sexually, hedonistically, scholastically - mind expanding. Life expanding. It was for me - it was transformative (and I am forever grateful to the UK state and taxpayer). This should be even more true now these poor kids are accruing lifetime debts to do it

    Too often, I hear that is not remotely true any more, it is not transformative, it’s not even fun
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    Evening all :)

    A few thoughts after a busy day (well, for me anyway).

    There was an interesting comment from @DavidL this morning about the "discipline" of work. I'm of the school you work to live, you don't live to work. That may make me a minority of one on here (won't be the first time, won't be the last). The pandemic made many people question the old adage "work life balance" particularly as the line between the two blurred. I believe some came to realise there was more to life than work and perhaps stepping off the treadmill wouldn't be the disaster they had always feared (or been taught to fear). The ability to accumulate savings by not spending in the pamdemic might have softened the move away from work for some.

    I see there's plenty of "military" talk out there - this isn't 1914. Apparently we need a civilian military force (I thought we had the TA for that), there's the usual old nonsense about "national service" and apparently war is inevitable. I don't know who we are meant to be fighting, when or how - I don't see the Houthis advancing down East Ham High Street - we had a pro-Palestinian protest this morning but that was tightly controlled by four police and a van. Russia aren't the military colossues the USSR was but they so have nuclear weapons. I would imagine if Ukraine began to advance into internationally-recognised Russian sovereign territory there might be some issues.

    I was a student a long time ago and I've no clue what student life is like these days. I have to admit my four undergraduate years were an enormous education and not of the academic variety. My nephew is a student now and I think he still enjoys the social side but he takes his studies seriously. I think I did too but it was another time.

    On polling matters, I read somewhere Savants doesn't prompt for parties like Reform or the Greens - does anyone know if Deltapoll is similar? This might explain the higher Conservative shares and the lower Green/Reform numbers compared to other pollsters.
  • Well.


    Wow - that is amazing!

    How on earth do the Cons manage to retain 6 seats?
    The SNP are falling more than the Tories in Scotland so the Tories hold on, and that's before Unionist tactical voting.
    From what little evidence we have - council by-elections - the Scots Tory vote is holding up pretty well when its in a ward where they are the main competition with the SNP. They held a seat in Stirling quite comfortably on Thursday, for instance.( https://twitter.com/BritainElects/status/1750904501786075573 ) Dislike of the SNP trumps disapproval of the Tories at Westminster for many unionist voters.

    Need to bear in mind that while the Tory vote will likely tank in the Central Belt - to the benefit of Labour - it will prove much more resilient where they are defending seats or are the main challengers to the SNP. Overall opinion polling figures for Scotland will likely miss these regional variations.
    The other aspect which could make things really messy for the SNP if Alba put up some candidates.
    Marginal impact. Everyone loathes Salmond despite his attempts at rehabilitation. The Greens would be much more of a problem for the SNP if they stand, particularly in urban/yuppy type seats.
    I'm just hoping for results like this.


  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 51,124
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Aren't you missing the point that there are a limited number of places at universities and colleges.
    Not for overseas students.

    Indeed, not for domestic students at Russell Group uni - one of Gove's stupidest mistakes in a remarkably strong field of competition.

    Even if that were an issue, surely the places should be reserved for those who would actually, y'know, learn shit? Any fool can go on the piss for three years in a random city.
    “Any fool can go on the piss”

    I’m not so sure. When I pointed out that (back in the 90s) if everyone in the group in the hall put in a tenner, you didn’t even have to go to Oddbins, they would happily deliver. And give us free bags of ice…

    You’d have thought I’d just discovered fire or something. Apparently this was mad, out of the box thinking.
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737
    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    This has been true for ages. When I went back to work near my old uni a decade ago some of the pubs near the big inner city halls were struggling because they were full of overseas Chinese students who didn't conduct their lives from the pub like we had a decade earlier.

    Though no doubt that would have changed somewhat anyway as social media was in its infancy, streaming was patchy, and everything was cheaper. University life was destined to become more atomised anyway I think.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 56,606

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    So have I. A further problem is that Chinese students tend to contribute very little to group or project work. It's because the approach to teaching in China does not encourage independent thinking or research. Just a thing. You really don't want to be in a class with majority Chinese/South Asian. Everyone knows this who works in HE but it is unspoken for obvious reasons. The unis need the cash.
    Indeed. But we can’t talk about it on PB because, you know, reasons. And @TSE
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,453
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    I disagree

    Part of university is simply growing up, making friends, establishing a network

  • StuartinromfordStuartinromford Posts: 17,453
    Cyclefree said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    The effect on students here who get the same grades as these overseas students but are denied a place because they don't come with enough money attached is probably more serious.
    Though pretty much inevitable when overseas students bring in about three times as much cash per student as home students.

    Doesn't make it right, but it's what happens when a country spends a few decades selling itself off bit by bit.

    (Though the "detraction from party life" argument is a bit icky. Are you going to ban physics students next?)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,730

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    I disagree

    Part of university is simply growing up, making friends, establishing a network

    That 'networking' is one of the reasons this country is run by ignorant shitheads.

    Give me people who studied any day. There's a chance they might be (a) knowledgeable and (b) have a willingness to learn beyond their existing knowledge.
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 3,038
    edited January 27
    Off topic, but will help you understand American politics, now:

    As Catherine Rampell says, this is "inconvenient" for both Democrats and Republicans:
    "The best-kept secret in American politics today: Almost every kind of energy is booming.

    Oil, natural gas, renewables — production of nearly every major source of energy has recently touched all-time highs. In fact, production of each has roughly doubled since 2000."
    source$: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/01/25/energy-boom-renewables-fossil-fuels/

    (The exceptions, of course, are electricity from coal and nuclear power. Which helps explain why my electric utility was urging us to turn down our thermostats during the recent cold spell here.)

  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,989
    On the subject of when the election might take place, a lot will depend on the polls at the time.

    IF a governing party is leading the temptation is to run a short campaign (3-4 weeks) to allow for as little to go wrong as possible. IF a governing party is behind they'll go for a long campaign. If the polls are starting to turn 6 weeks give them more time to turn - if the polls aren't turning, 6 weeks gives time for something to happen.

    It may well be Hunt will go for TWO tax cutting budgets this year - one in March and one in an early Autumn Statement soon after Parliament convenes after the Party Conference season.

    The Conservatives are at the ICC in Birmingham from 29 September - 2 October.

    Announcing the election a week later would make 14 November possible but I wonder if we'll get Parliament back, Hunt does an emergency Autumn Statement in the second week of October with some tax cuts and Sunak calls the dissolution immediately after with a 4-5 week campaign.

    Again, that puts us mid -Novemberish.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,937
    Omnium said:

    I will be a candidate in the forthcoming #Rochdale by-election. Someone has to teach #Starmer and #GenocideLabour a lesson. #Gaza

    https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447

    These guys are such bellends
    Galloway has, in the past, been remarkably effective at gaining support from Muslim voters. He's beaten Labour twice - Bethnal Green and Bow in 2005, and Bradford West in the 2012 by-election. If there's a sizeable Muslim vote in Rochdale he could do very well indeed.
    Bit of an assumption on my part but the winning candidate for Lab is Azhar Ali OBE
    @CllrAzharAli

    Possibly he's a practising muslim?

    OBE isn't a Muslim name.
    Isn't it a Jedi name?
  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,737

    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    This foreign undergrad thing is quite a scandal

    One of the lesser known but quite significant impacts is how they reduce the social life of the university. For a start, if you have a massively diverse student body - many non British and non European - that means it takes longer for students to get to know each other and bond. Languages and cultures are an extra barrier beyond newness and shyness

    Also the intake of often comparatively introverted and scholastic Chinese and south Asian students detracts from the “fun” aspect of student life. I’ve heard this from friends’ children. There is less partying because they are all studying

    It may seem trivial. It may seem prejudiced. But I’ve heard this from various first hand sources

    How bloody dare they spend their time at an educational institution studying to get an education?

    There are lots of reasons to be bothered about the British university sector but that's one of the silliest things you've ever posted.
    Aren't you missing the point that there are a limited number of places at universities and colleges.
    Not for overseas students.

    Indeed, not for domestic students at Russell Group uni - one of Gove's stupidest mistakes in a remarkably strong field of competition.

    Even if that were an issue, surely the places should be reserved for those who would actually, y'know, learn shit? Any fool can go on the piss for three years in a random city.
    “Any fool can go on the piss”

    I’m not so sure. When I pointed out that (back in the 90s) if everyone in the group in the hall put in a tenner, you didn’t even have to go to Oddbins, they would happily deliver. And give us free bags of ice…

    You’d have thought I’d just discovered fire or something. Apparently this was mad, out of the box thinking.
    Any fool can go on the piss, true. But there is a certain skill to doing so and coming out with a decent degree at the end.
This discussion has been closed.