Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
'Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear,'
That's the thought pump. What constitutes that is, of course, wholly mysterious. You can't just 'program' it. Derrrrrr.
Er, yes you can, you tell the computer what are the most popular classical tunes ever, and it learns from that, and replicates them= you get good new popular classical tunes
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
It was in fact a top hotel. You needed a few bob to stay there.
Here's a fun parlour game. Have a look at various organisations' statements for Holocaust Memorial Day and see how many avoid using the word Jew. Here's Brighton and Hove council
'Today is Holocaust Memorial Day, the international day dedicated to victims of genocide.
Marking the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau, today we remember all people murdered because of something that made them who they were.'
Yes but the linked web page does mention Jews in amongst various other genocides.
For real woke nonsense, try this:-
... in our contemporary society, there is a distressing prevalence of stereotypes that strip certain individuals of their humanity. Those who deviate from societal norms often find themselves marginalised and devalued.
A clear example is the way homeless people are so often stigmatised, demonised as having inflicted their situation on themselves. However, it is vital to recognise that one’s worth as a human being should never be determined by their housing situation. Harmful stereotypes are often perpetuated by some media who resort to dehumanising language about refugees or migrants. Similarly, certain religions are unjustly demonised, leading to prejudiced attitudes.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
True
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook) The boy band Busted: great pop songs That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
"Thirty years ago today, BABYLON 5 began its series run with the episode Midnight on the Firing Line, which is where we were and what we felt at the time: this was make-it-or-break-it time. Could we make a five year arc work? Would it endure? And now, here we are. Astonishing."
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
True
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook) The boy band Busted: great pop songs That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
Ah, Laughing Cow cheese.
My first girlfriend, a gal named Lucy, showed her love for me by giving me one of her laughing cow triangles out of her lunchbox. We must have been five.
It's odd how things can take you back to a certain place and time...
Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
'Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear,'
That's the thought pump. What constitutes that is, of course, wholly mysterious. You can't just 'program' it. Derrrrrr.
Er, yes you can, you tell the computer what are the most popular classical tunes ever, and it learns from that, and replicates them= you get good new popular classical tunes
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
Okay. If you're right there's an algorithm that can determine that that opening bars of Mozart's 40th Symphony constitutes a good melody while the opening bars of 'Agadoo' constitutes a crap one. Have a stab at describing such an algorithm.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I've certainly read cringier (possibly also something by Leon, but I can't be bothered to spend half an afternoon dredging that up).
Good live music is great even in mundane settings.
Yes, but nothing mundane about this particular "outdoor terrace bar", I assure you.
You sip your beer, the sun slipping into the sea from the evening sky, as the charismatic "Monique" delivers a quirky and compelling version of Dolly Parton's Nine To Five.
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
Personally I think his description sounds pleasant, and your reaction is more than a touch weird. You are evidently a sensitive sort of fellow, who cringes at anything not to his taste. My sympathies.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
Personally I think his description sounds pleasant, and your reaction is more than a touch weird. You are evidently a sensitive sort of fellow, who cringes at anything not to his taste. My sympathies.
A man who spends his life knapping artisanal flint dildos while writing travel articles from random non-hotspots for the Knapper's Gazette is weird?
Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
'Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear,'
That's the thought pump. What constitutes that is, of course, wholly mysterious. You can't just 'program' it. Derrrrrr.
Er, yes you can, you tell the computer what are the most popular classical tunes ever, and it learns from that, and replicates them= you get good new popular classical tunes
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
Okay. If you're right there's an algorithm that can determine that that opening bars of Mozart's 40th Symphony constitutes a good melody while the opening bars of 'Agadoo' constitutes a crap one. Have a stab at describing such an algorithm.
A computer understands that the Ruy Lopez is a decent sequence of opening chess moves. A modern computer understands this to the extent it can now go way beyond Ruy Lopez and play it better than any human, defeating any human. Because, algorithms
So, yes, a computer will master the hesitant opening strings of Mozart's 40th, and the strident clanking chords that begin Agadoo, and it will eventually conjure variations that are, respectively, better than Mozart and better than Agadoo
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
It's a bit rich him calling one of my posts a cringer.
"There's something about the African bush at midnight"
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
It's a bit rich him calling one of my posts a cringer.
"There's something about the African bush at midnight"
🤭
Well, on his own account he's explored a few bushes at night in his time.
So, yes, a computer will master the hesitant opening strings of Mozart's 40th, and the strident clanking chords that begin Agadoo, and it will eventually conjure variations that are, respectively, better than Mozart and better than Agadoo
If you has understood my post, you would realise this is bollocks.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
Personally I think his description sounds pleasant, and your reaction is more than a touch weird. You are evidently a sensitive sort of fellow, who cringes at anything not to his taste. My sympathies.
Thanks, and noted; the feeling is warmly reciprocated
BREAKING: Sky News can confirm that Post Office chairman, Henry Staunton has been ousted from his role after just one year, amid a row with the government over the IT Horizon scandal
I don’t buy the theory about a vote strike by woke angry Gen Z, I just think a slim majority of Americans are inchoately angry about modernity and Trump is their champion.
No legal case makes any difference, they view it all as a conspiracy, or perhaps even something along the lines of needing to break eggs to make an omelette.
BREAKING: Sky News can confirm that Post Office chairman, Henry Staunton has been ousted from his role after just one year, amid a row with the government over the IT Horizon scandal
Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
Thanks for this. I have asked this question and suggested this claim a few times. Your argument may, of course, be right though I don't think it is. It probably is right for purely formulaic work. But not all work in any art medium is purely that.
I think your argument actually asks the right question, or at least a right question.
When I read Dickens, watch Macbeth, listen to late Beethoven, look at The Girl with the Pearl Earring, am I only participating in a programmed order you describe, or am I in fact in communication with a person or persons, including the creator of the work. You seem to think the former, I think the latter but await reasonably clear demonstration.
One can fake that using AI, obviously - but you're right about considering art as a social exercise. Music, particularly is that, in a manner which isn't so true of photography.
The question is, how convincingly can AI fake that communication ? Thus far, not particularly well; but that's arguably just a matter of development (and arguably not).
So, yes, a computer will master the hesitant opening strings of Mozart's 40th, and the strident clanking chords that begin Agadoo, and it will eventually conjure variations that are, respectively, better than Mozart and better than Agadoo
If you has understood my post, you would realise this is bollocks.
What is your argument other than "art is a human thing, so only humans can produce art"?
That is how I read it, but if there is some nuance I am missing, please tell me
Here's a fun parlour game. Have a look at various organisations' statements for Holocaust Memorial Day and see how many avoid using the word Jew. Here's Brighton and Hove council
'Today is Holocaust Memorial Day, the international day dedicated to victims of genocide.
Marking the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau, today we remember all people murdered because of something that made them who they were.'
Yes but the linked web page does mention Jews in amongst various other genocides.
For real woke nonsense, try this:-
... in our contemporary society, there is a distressing prevalence of stereotypes that strip certain individuals of their humanity. Those who deviate from societal norms often find themselves marginalised and devalued.
A clear example is the way homeless people are so often stigmatised, demonised as having inflicted their situation on themselves. However, it is vital to recognise that one’s worth as a human being should never be determined by their housing situation. Harmful stereotypes are often perpetuated by some media who resort to dehumanising language about refugees or migrants. Similarly, certain religions are unjustly demonised, leading to prejudiced attitudes.
On topic, it shouldn't really surprise that evangelicals have a morality that is malleable to say the least. There's several cases of televangelists or preachers not only being caught practicing various unbiblical sexual acts but then going from strength to strength after doing so.
So much so that Christopher Hitchens famously said that the moment he saw an evangelical preaching about sexual morality, he'd set a stopwatch and wait until they were inevitably caught in a latrine with an 'Apache transvestite'.
In fact, in many ways, the US evangelical movement is a perfect match Trumpism. In that, its main interest is in raining hellfire on others, accruing large sums of money for itself while claiming it's all in pursuit of a higher cause while indulging whatever perversions float its leaders' boats. And still, the people follow. Remind you of anything/one?
Computers can do amazing things but you can never entirely trust them. That was the mistake people made with the Horizon PO system. The most recent witness yesterday kept repeating the line "We were told the Horizon system was 100% reliable".
The evangelical refrain is 'hate the sin, love the sinner'. They see The Donald as a sinner, but Biden is so much worse than that - he's a Catholic!
VERY few US evangelicals still have a deep aversion to voting for a Roman Catholic. PROVIDED the Catholic in question is anti-abortion in particular (which Biden is not) and generally conservative (ditto).
Certainly evangelical leadership and opinion leaders recognize that most of Catholic hierarchy and bulk of conservative/Republican Catholic politicos are on THEIR side - NOT Biden's. (Nor the Pope's for that matter.)
Good afternoon, SSI. Have you ever come across this ?
I don’t buy the theory about a vote strike by woke angry Gen Z, I just think a slim majority of Americans are inchoately angry about modernity and Trump is their champion.
No legal case makes any difference, they view it all as a conspiracy, or perhaps even something along the lines of needing to break eggs to make an omelette.
Disagree. The legal cases* have given Trump a new lease of life and to his supporters he is being victimised. There has also been a massive increase in undocumented migration from Mexico under Biden.
*This may all have been part of team Biden's strategy.
On topic, it shouldn't really surprise that evangelicals have a morality that is malleable to say the least. There's several cases of televangelists or preachers not only being caught practicing various unbiblical sexual acts but then going from strength to strength after doing so.
So much so that Christopher Hitchens famously said that the moment he saw an evangelical preaching about sexual morality, he'd set a stopwatch and wait until they were inevitably caught in a latrine with an 'Apache transvestite'.
In fact, in many ways, the US evangelical movement is a perfect match Trumpism. In that, its main interest is in raining hellfire on others, accruing large sums of money for itself while claiming it's all in pursuit of a higher cause while indulging whatever perversions float its leaders' boats. And still, the people follow. Remind you of anything/one?
I think Trump's hold over the evangelicals is due to Wade-Roe and abortion. He delivered, as it were. The downside for him is that defending women's rights is giving Biden/Harris a resounding campaign issue which Trump will struggle with. At the end of the day, independents dislike the Donald and you can't win the presidency without a significant number of them voting for you.
So far, no AI has made any art of any interest to anyone of discernment.
However, if you look at Netflix for example, it’s already 99% shite, and AI can probably to a fair job of replacing that.
I reckon - and I am deeply immersed in this subject, in an eager layman way - that AI will start producing creatively signifcant and/or popular artworks within 1-3 years
eg Tunes that reach the top10. Maybe the plot of an Emmy nominated script, that kind of thing
We are further away from AI producing epochal operas or the entirety of an Oscar winning movie (actors, sets, script, everything) or a novel that wins the Booker (or should win) but it is, for me, only a matter of time - UNLESS AI development stops (maybe a barrier we have not expected?) or we actually CHOOSE to stop developing AI
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
True
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook) The boy band Busted: great pop songs That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
Ah, Laughing Cow cheese.
My first girlfriend, a gal named Lucy, showed her love for me by giving me one of her laughing cow triangles out of her lunchbox. We must have been five.
It's odd how things can take you back to a certain place and time...
One for Leon: the Laughing Cow used to be put in restaurant windows in Cambodia to show you could buy drugs there. Not sure if that still applies. Let us know.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
True
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook) The boy band Busted: great pop songs That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
Your email address needs some work, if you want to see this mirror of mine. It's rejecting me .....
Two facts relevant to the topic: Bill Clinton was accused of rape by a credible woman. The accusation seems to have done him little harm among most Democrats.
The Loser's first wife accused him of marital rape, under oath. (She later retracted the accusation, when she was not under oath.)
I do think it ironic that for all of Trump's obvious crimes the rape one is the least provable and would almost certainly fail a criminal bar of 'beyond reasonable doubt' and it is at the civil case level that has got him. Understandably it must be galling to be prevented from denying it in court now.
This seems to have really got to him as well as Haley not throwing in the towel. Why the latter has got to him I don't know as she can't beat him unless he is tripped up by something else eg the civil cases (this one, fraud or ballot issue) or one of the criminal cases. To me it makes sense she stays in, in case one of those happens and she then becomes the default.
On topic, it shouldn't really surprise that evangelicals have a morality that is malleable to say the least. There's several cases of televangelists or preachers not only being caught practicing various unbiblical sexual acts but then going from strength to strength after doing so.
So much so that Christopher Hitchens famously said that the moment he saw an evangelical preaching about sexual morality, he'd set a stopwatch and wait until they were inevitably caught in a latrine with an 'Apache transvestite'.
In fact, in many ways, the US evangelical movement is a perfect match Trumpism. In that, its main interest is in raining hellfire on others, accruing large sums of money for itself while claiming it's all in pursuit of a higher cause while indulging whatever perversions float its leaders' boats. And still, the people follow. Remind you of anything/one?
I thoroughly recommend that people read Elmer Gantry by Sinclair Lewis, about a grifter/evangelist. Trump is a recognisable American type. Lewis also wrote It Can't Happen Here (about Fascism coming to America) and Main Street (about small town decency being exploited and ultimately destroyed by cynical bad actors). Although his books are a century old I think they are still very good for understanding some of the undercurrents in American society and in particular the dark side of small town conservatism.
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.
Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.
Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.
Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
'Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear,'
That's the thought pump. What constitutes that is, of course, wholly mysterious. You can't just 'program' it. Derrrrrr.
Er, yes you can, you tell the computer what are the most popular classical tunes ever, and it learns from that, and replicates them= you get good new popular classical tunes
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
The 'maths', if it can be reduced to such, is massively more complex, though. And, of course, not everything is computable.
So far, no AI has made any art of any interest to anyone of discernment.
However, if you look at Netflix for example, it’s already 99% shite, and AI can probably to a fair job of replacing that.
Much TV and film is good-looking, mediocre pap. That is what AI is capable of producing. In terms of academic work, it’s of a quality that would get you a C at A Level, or a Lower Second at Degree Level.
AI answers to questions are golden rays of the obvious.
Two facts relevant to the topic: Bill Clinton was accused of rape by a credible woman. The accusation seems to have done him little harm among most Democrats.
The Loser's first wife accused him of marital rape, under oath. (She later retracted the accusation, when she was not under oath.)
I do think it ironic that for all of Trump's obvious crimes the rape one is the least provable and would almost certainly fail a criminal bar of 'beyond reasonable doubt' and it is at the civil case level that has got him. Understandably it must be galling to be prevented from denying it in court now.
This seems to have really got to him as well as Haley not throwing in the towel. Why the latter has got to him I don't know as she can't beat him unless he is tripped up by something else eg the civil cases (this one, fraud or ballot issue) or one of the criminal cases. To me it makes sense she stays in, in case one of those happens and she then becomes the default.
Because he requires the obesience of the entire party. The fact that Haley can get a significant proportion of their votes as she starts more openly to call out his shit must wind him up considerably.
So far, no AI has made any art of any interest to anyone of discernment.
However, if you look at Netflix for example, it’s already 99% shite, and AI can probably to a fair job of replacing that.
I reckon - and I am deeply immersed in this subject, in an eager layman way - that AI will start producing creatively signifcant and/or popular artworks within 1-3 years
eg Tunes that reach the top10. Maybe the plot of an Emmy nominated script, that kind of thing
We are further away from AI producing epochal operas or the entirety of an Oscar winning movie (actors, sets, script, everything) or a novel that wins the Booker (or should win) but it is, for me, only a matter of time - UNLESS AI development stops (maybe a barrier we have not expected?) or we actually CHOOSE to stop developing AI
If I take more or less all your predictions as questions I think you are spot on. The planet is a laboratory of what AI can do, and while there are all sorts of political issues over some possible developments, I can't see any reason why any political or commercial force would prevent the large scale experiment with respect to arts and culture of any sort.
If publishers, art galleries, opera houses and concert halls can harmlessly make money by AI producing stuff that commands the paying audiences's hard cash, wins prizes, gets top reviews from people who don't know its source and so on then so be it. You win.
So far, no AI has made any art of any interest to anyone of discernment.
However, if you look at Netflix for example, it’s already 99% shite, and AI can probably to a fair job of replacing that.
I think the question is- how much Art do we actually need, and do we have a big enough stockpile of Art, anyway?
If we're talking about the arts as things to be appreciated by an audience, the answer is almost certainly "we've got more than enough, already". Writing novels or plays stopped being a sensible career plan ages ago- not because authors are in competition with AI, but they are in competition with the dead.
The harder bit is art to do something functional with- the artwork for a book cover, the animation for a TV commercial. The way that a lot of pukka artists paid the bills to spend time with their muse.
That sort of thing is definitely on the way out, which sucks if you are, say, the next Richard Williams. But the urge to create, and the prejuidce that music is different to Muzak, aren't going anywhere.
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.
Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.
Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.
Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
But this is again the same tedious circular argument (which I do not dispute, as it is indispuable, as it is circular) - you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"
Who could possibly disagree with this?
You've just swapped the word humans with "context"
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.
Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.
Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.
Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
But this is again the same tedious circular argument (which I do not dispute, as it is indispuable, as it is circular) - you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"
Who could possibly disagree with this?
You've just swapped the word humans with "context"
This is not a high level of debate, TBH
There is a point in there though, isn’t there. Why do people still paint landscapes even though we have superb photography? And the best art tells us something about ourselves, about the artist, about the world. The way AI is set up is that it is pastiche, with no ghost in the machine to make a statement about the meaning of life. Why desire a Verneer? Not for the image, but for the fact that Vermeer painted it, and lots of people desire it. An AI new Vermeer has none of that.
If we're talking about the arts as things to be appreciated by an audience, the answer is almost certainly "we've got more than enough, already". Writing novels or plays stopped being a sensible career plan ages ago- not because authors are in competition with AI, but they are in competition with the dead.
There is a market for repurposed art.
Stock Aitken and Waterman had an 'algorithm' for making hit records. They recycled popular tunes, including classical melodies.
Rihanna's 'shut up and drive' is Blue Monday with new words. SOS is Tainted Love.
Somebody squeezed 7 seasons of Elementary out of Sherlock Homes, and that will not be the last adaptation ever produced.
Back to AI music, on the prior thread a PB-er claimed that surely no machine could make a Mozart sonata or a Bach fugue or a Richard Strauss Last Song
WTAF makes anyone believe that? Music by definition is a series of notes, one after the other. Certain sequences are more pleasing and evocative than others. Certain timbres, timings, instrumentations are also more pleasing than others - for reasons of newness, weirdness, sadness, and so on
An AI can run through every possible series of notes producing a trillion variations every minute. Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear, even the most sophisticated human ear. Voila: brilliant AI music, indistinguishable from that composed by humans, indeed probably better, and, then, inevitably better
This can then be "played" by AI bands, orchestras, singers, because music is just a particular modulation of sound waves reaching your ears. It is just maths. It can absolutely be replicated, and will be, if we continue down the AI road
Art as a human product is largely done, music might be the next art FORM to go, after photography
'Another AI can be programmed to choose the "best" - ie most likely to please the human ear,'
That's the thought pump. What constitutes that is, of course, wholly mysterious. You can't just 'program' it. Derrrrrr.
Er, yes you can, you tell the computer what are the most popular classical tunes ever, and it learns from that, and replicates them= you get good new popular classical tunes
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
Okay. If you're right there's an algorithm that can determine that that opening bars of Mozart's 40th Symphony constitutes a good melody while the opening bars of 'Agadoo' constitutes a crap one. Have a stab at describing such an algorithm.
A computer understands that the Ruy Lopez is a decent sequence of opening chess moves. A modern computer understands this to the extent it can now go way beyond Ruy Lopez and play it better than any human, defeating any human. Because, algorithms
So, yes, a computer will master the hesitant opening strings of Mozart's 40th, and the strident clanking chords that begin Agadoo, and it will eventually conjure variations that are, respectively, better than Mozart and better than Agadoo
Computers can do chess because there's a definable end point and it can work out the combinations. What's the definable end point of 'compose a great melody' that doesn't in itself require of a definition? You have to be able to give that, otherwise your program can't possibly know whether it's completed it's task or not.
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
So, all you're saying is that "art" is a uniquely human product, therefore a computer cannot make it, as art is uniquely human, and a computer is not a human
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
The thing it will surely struggle to replicate is context. We could already probably recreate the work of say a Dutch Master, in a close to perfect way pre-AI. But Vermeers still sell for tens of millions because you can't replicate the context.
Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.
Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.
Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
But this is again the same tedious circular argument (which I do not dispute, as it is indispuable, as it is circular) - you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"
Who could possibly disagree with this?
You've just swapped the word humans with "context"
This is not a high level of debate, TBH
I think this is actually an argument *against* the primary of human creativity. If a song produced by an AI appears at a particular moment in time and triggers an emotional response in a group of people (typically because it is the music that happened to be playing during their first non-solo orgasms) then that is all the context that is needed.
The "fine art" argument is then about what a small number of self-poliicing snobs consider to be "valuable" regardless of aesthetic quality.
All that said, I am opposed to this generation of gen AI art because insufficient attention has been paid to copyright, licensing and the law around derivative works.
Computers can do chess because there's a definable end point and it can work out the combinations. What's the definable end point of 'compose a great melody' that doesn't in itself require of a definition? You have to be able to give that, otherwise your program can't possibly know whether it's completed it's task or not.
Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
Here is some clever semi-AI music. Someone has taken - I think - My Way, so it is sung by a kind of robotised menacing Satchmo /vid game character (or it is real, but I get the sense this is AI)
It's really quite good. I would put it on my iphone playlist, it is weirdly moving. However this is not pure AI music, the original tune is human, and the adapted voice. This is collaboration (as we have seen in other AI artforms, the best so far are where humans and machines work together)
But then eventually the machines will simply take over. There is no "human" special sauce that machines can never master
Here's a fun parlour game. Have a look at various organisations' statements for Holocaust Memorial Day and see how many avoid using the word Jew. Here's Brighton and Hove council
'Today is Holocaust Memorial Day, the international day dedicated to victims of genocide.
Marking the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau, today we remember all people murdered because of something that made them who they were.'
Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.
Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.
Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.
Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.
What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?
I think only in tests - but they created a development with folding wings that could in theory have been carrier based. The Sea Hornet eventually rendered that obsolete.
Been emptying some old trunks owned by my late in-laws.
Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
BREAKING: Sky News can confirm that Post Office chairman, Henry Staunton has been ousted from his role after just one year, amid a row with the government over the IT Horizon scandal
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
However, the government is understood to want to appoint a Whitehall insider to the role as it looks to strengthen the Post Office's corporate governance.
Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.
I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
Can't we talk about something slightly interesting, Brexit or PR?
Yesterday, I did the roughly five miles of rail route from Castleford to South Milford for the first time. Gained an "all-day" service by TPE last month.
My Oxford and Cambridge Examination Board English O level paper in 1978 had a comprehension exercise based on Thomas Cook's temperance train ride to Loughborough. Disappointingly I got a B.
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
Two facts relevant to the topic: Bill Clinton was accused of rape by a credible woman. The accusation seems to have done him little harm among most Democrats.
The Loser's first wife accused him of marital rape, under oath. (She later retracted the accusation, when she was not under oath.)
I do think it ironic that for all of Trump's obvious crimes the rape one is the least provable and would almost certainly fail a criminal bar of 'beyond reasonable doubt' and it is at the civil case level that has got him. Understandably it must be galling to be prevented from denying it in court now.
This seems to have really got to him as well as Haley not throwing in the towel. Why the latter has got to him I don't know as she can't beat him unless he is tripped up by something else eg the civil cases (this one, fraud or ballot issue) or one of the criminal cases. To me it makes sense she stays in, in case one of those happens and she then becomes the default.
He doesn’t like strong independent women. He has an entirely transactional relationship with them (including with Melania)
Leon himself of course has ghastly middle-middle class taste. He is getting old, though, and one does tend to move “down-brow” as one ages.
This is very true. I have downbrowed with age. Particularly in music taste. And cars, though that’s spousal influence.
It’s like Shakespeare’s ages of man. Children love a bit of naff, then they discover coolness, they take this with them into adulthood until the second childhood, when they discover naffness again.
you are saying "art is a thing made by humans, therefore non-humans cannot make art"
This is an axiom, not a circular argument.
Give us one example over all of history of art not made by a human?
You can't. It doesn't exist.
Your current argument is that in the future machines could produce art, but only by pretending to be human.
And if they are not really human, it's not really art.
It may be beautiful. It may be desirable. Diamonds are both. They are not art.
This is a very good, thought-provoking post. Even diamonds though must be assessed, cut and polished by humans to give them life and sparkle. So they are also art in a way.
I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.
As ever, politics is about choosing between bad courses. Voting Trump, or abstaining, is choosing a worse course than voting Biden.
There's no real way of knowing that. What IF China takes Biden's reelection as a sign of weakness and it triggers events leading to WW3?
IF doing all the heavy lifting.
What IF Putin sees Trump's election as an opportunity to move West threatening the use of nukes, and Trump warns Europe about retaliating against his mate? Bollocks? Yes, but so was your suggestion.
I would have conquered Everest IF I hadn't missed the boat train from Victoria.
Well Putin seems to have taken Biden's election as a signal that he could get away with a full scale invasion of Ukraine.
You have added 2 and 2 together and found the answer of "Biden is weak on Putin, weak on the causes of Putin".
BREAKING: Sky News can confirm that Post Office chairman, Henry Staunton has been ousted from his role after just one year, amid a row with the government over the IT Horizon scandal
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
However, the government is understood to want to appoint a Whitehall insider to the role as it looks to strengthen the Post Office's corporate governance.
Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.
I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?
Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
Nuclear weapons are Truth.
You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.
We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?
Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
Nuclear weapons are Truth.
You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.
Even the maddest know this.
You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
However, the government is understood to want to appoint a Whitehall insider to the role as it looks to strengthen the Post Office's corporate governance.
Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.
I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
Four Rwandans were granted refugee status in the UK over “well-founded” fears of persecution at the same time as the government was arguing in court and parliament that the east African country was a safe place to send asylum seekers.
An investigation by the Observer and the campaign group Led by Donkeys reveals for the first time details of Home Office decisions on Rwandans who have been given asylum in the past four months, claiming they were at risk from the regime.
The documents raise fresh questions over prime minister Rishi Sunak’s claim that Rwanda is “unequivocally” safe for asylum seekers.
"Post Office chairman Henry Staunton ousted amid row with government Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
However, the government is understood to want to appoint a Whitehall insider to the role as it looks to strengthen the Post Office's corporate governance.
Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.
I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
I have an idea. Bring a professional stakeholder into the governance of the Post Office
I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.
UK evangelicals seem to me (I am not one) to be a kind, decent and liberal minded lot; IMHO they are in temper and spirit much closer to their non-evangelical fellow Christians than they are to USA evangelical rhetoric of the Trumpian variety, just as they are very unlike their Paisleyite co-religionists in NI. If this were not so I don't think I would have as many evangelical friends.
We have Trident why do we need more nuclear weapons ?
Because we're dealing with a pscychopath in the Kremlin and the only way to stop him dropping a bomb on you if he thinks it's in his interest is if you can drop two bombs on him. So sadly the more we have close at hand the better.
Nuclear weapons are Truth.
You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.
Even the maddest know this.
You seem to have a slightly unhealthy obsession with them.
Surely the most cringe sentence ever written on PB
"On our recent Tenerife holiday the whole hotel experience was elevated immensely by high quality live music acts every evening in one of the outdoor terrace bars"
This is up there with renowned anarcho-nihilist @Dura_Ace confessing that, actually, he really enoys watching "One Foot in the Grave"
Kinabalu has never denied living a bourgeois lifestyle though has he? Are you not just being a snob. We can't all spend half our lives at the best international destinations.
I am, indeed, being an appalling snob
But if I was asked to devise an absolutely cringe, naff, non-U, scrotum-shrivellingly Poujadiste holiday recommendation it would be that
Every single word is perfect, right down to the immortal triplet "outdoor terrace bars"
It would only need a book by that magnificent wordsmith (copyright someone or other) Dan Brown to complete the picture.
I'm being a bit cruel to @kinabalu and I apologise for that
On the other hand he is quite keen to get me banned, whenever he sees an opportunity, and he is also a contentedly retired, millionaire accountant living in a large house in Hampstead, so I reckon he can cope
I think we all have our guilty/commonplace pleasures. I daresay you’ve partaken of a Ginsters on occasion.
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
True
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook) The boy band Busted: great pop songs That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
The Spectator used to be one of mine. Then came a tipping point when the guilt overcame the pleasure.
But on the whole 'cultural superiority' thing, I used to work with this plummy bloke, we were not-quite-mates, and I remember once telling him how my (upwardly working class) dad liked Glenfiddich rather than bog standard scotch. "Ah the poor man's single malt," he said, expression like somebody had farted.
I am a UK Evangelical Christian. I have had fierce arguments with US evangelicals. I have been told I am not a Christian because I don't believe the world was created in seven human days. I have been told that God has anointed Trump to be President. I have been told that God forgives all Trump's sins and that Biden has been visited by the devil. Ironically most Evangelicals I know in the UK have left of centre political views - most US Evangelical Christians who I have met are definitely not left of centre. Just for the record I was a Lib Dem councillor for 22 years. Like Mike Smithson I just don't get why Trump is "loved / adored" by many US Evangelicals.
Fundamentalism (biblical) established itself in the US in the C19 and Evangelicalism grew out of that.
In the UK the original”evangelicals” were Methodists not fundies.
Four Rwandans were granted refugee status in the UK over “well-founded” fears of persecution at the same time as the government was arguing in court and parliament that the east African country was a safe place to send asylum seekers.
An investigation by the Observer and the campaign group Led by Donkeys reveals for the first time details of Home Office decisions on Rwandans who have been given asylum in the past four months, claiming they were at risk from the regime.
The documents raise fresh questions over prime minister Rishi Sunak’s claim that Rwanda is “unequivocally” safe for asylum seekers.
The person (perhaps Mr Eadie KC) representing the government in the SC won't be able to keep a straight face when asked by Lord Reed whether his position is that all courts must regard Rwanda as 'safe' regardless of what are the facts at the time.
"Can an Act of Parliament legislate in advance for the nature of future facts, Mr Eadie?"
Comments
And does anyone know what Orban's price is? (Assuming he has one.)
If you want to dig deeper you teach the computer the most critically acclaimed classical tunes, so it can be more innovative, and so on
You could ask it to mix Wagner and Vivaldi and Depeche Mode, it will do a trillion versions, then a third AI could choose the best thousand in terms of the most liked by people in North West London, etc etc etc. You will end up wih phenomenally good clever music, better than any music created by mankind, the exact same way AI can now beat any human at Chess or Go, and can play BETTER Chess or Go
Music is just maths - like Chess or Go
How can people not understand this. It is - I am afraid - a pretty basic IQ test, which you just failed
lol, Ginsters auto corrected to Ginsberg - fancy..
For real woke nonsense, try this:-
A clear example is the way homeless people are so often stigmatised, demonised as having inflicted their situation on themselves. However, it is vital to recognise that one’s worth as a human being should never be determined by their housing situation. Harmful stereotypes are often perpetuated by some media who resort to dehumanising language about refugees or migrants. Similarly, certain religions are unjustly demonised, leading to prejudiced attitudes.
Except that's not the Moaning Star, it is the Jewish Chronicle, and written by the chief executive of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust (and yes, of course I've yanked it out of context).
https://www.thejc.com/community/the-schmooze/on-holocaust-memorial-day-lets-safeguard-human-dignity-for-all-uukqlt8q
Not done Ginsters, too much of a patriotic Cornishman (also - whisper it quietly - I don't particularly like pasties, unless they are REALLY well made (loads of white pepper!) and I am really hungry and doing a hike in Cornwall)
But yeah, guilty pleasures. A few of mine:
Taylor Swift (my ex wife nearly left me - before our due time - coz I love listening to Taylor as I cook)
The boy band Busted: great pop songs
That processed cheese in triangles - the laughing cow one? MMMM
Bacon sandwiches with cheap white sliced bread, the cheaper the better, with pepper and malt vinegar
The French Riviera - I know it's naff but I love a week in Menton
https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1751061515875348865
My first girlfriend, a gal named Lucy, showed her love for me by giving me one of her laughing cow triangles out of her lunchbox. We must have been five.
It's odd how things can take you back to a certain place and time...
Other species may communicate, and cooperate, but none of them make art for arts sake.
Animals can produce beauty, like a spiders' web, but it's survival, not art.
Nature can produce other images we consider beautiful, like a spiral galaxy, but again, not art.
So yes, a computer could produce a piece of music, or a picture that we might perceive as beautiful, but that's not art...
You sip your beer, the sun slipping into the sea from the evening sky, as the charismatic "Monique" delivers a quirky and compelling version of Dolly Parton's Nine To Five.
Seems like a dream now.
A completely pointless, circular argument which is also circular, and entirely pointless. Well done
That's a touch harsh.
So, yes, a computer will master the hesitant opening strings of Mozart's 40th, and the strident clanking chords that begin Agadoo, and it will eventually conjure variations that are, respectively, better than Mozart and better than Agadoo
"There's something about the African bush at midnight"
🤭
The lack of irony was of course what made it funny.
BREAKING: Sky News can confirm that Post Office chairman, Henry Staunton has been ousted from his role after just one year, amid a row with the government over the IT Horizon scandal
I don’t buy the theory about a vote strike by woke angry Gen Z, I just think a slim majority of Americans are inchoately angry about modernity and Trump is their champion.
No legal case makes any difference, they view it all as a conspiracy, or perhaps even something along the lines of needing to break eggs to make an omelette.
The question is, how convincingly can AI fake that communication ? Thus far, not particularly well; but that's arguably just a matter of development (and arguably not).
That is how I read it, but if there is some nuance I am missing, please tell me
https://twitter.com/bencooper/status/1751177134100349174
Original:
'It's Holocaust Memorial Day when we remember the murder of 6 million Jewish children, women and men in the Holocaust.'
Edited:
'It's Holocaust Memorial Day when we remember all the victims of the Holocaust.'
DON'T MENTION THE JEWS! I MENTIONED THEM ONCE BUT I THINK I GOT AWAY WITH IT.
So much so that Christopher Hitchens famously said that the moment he saw an evangelical preaching about sexual morality, he'd set a stopwatch and wait until they were inevitably caught in a latrine with an 'Apache transvestite'.
In fact, in many ways, the US evangelical movement is a perfect match Trumpism. In that, its main interest is in raining hellfire on others, accruing large sums of money for itself while claiming it's all in pursuit of a higher cause while indulging whatever perversions float its leaders' boats. And still, the people follow. Remind you of anything/one?
Have you ever come across this ?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_of_Jenkins'_Ear
..The War of Jenkins' Ear is commemorated annually on the last Saturday in May at Wormsloe Plantation in Savannah, Georgia...
However, if you look at Netflix for example, it’s already 99% shite, and AI can probably to a fair job of replacing that.
*This may all have been part of team Biden's strategy.
As for Orban, probably not one we - or the EU - want to pay. Stick rather than carrot might be the answer.
The downside for him is that defending women's rights is giving Biden/Harris a resounding campaign issue which Trump will struggle with.
At the end of the day, independents dislike the Donald and you can't win the presidency without a significant number of them voting for you.
eg Tunes that reach the top10. Maybe the plot of an Emmy nominated script, that kind of thing
We are further away from AI producing epochal operas or the entirety of an Oscar winning movie (actors, sets, script, everything) or a novel that wins the Booker (or should win) but it is, for me, only a matter of time - UNLESS AI development stops (maybe a barrier we have not expected?) or we actually CHOOSE to stop developing AI
This seems to have really got to him as well as Haley not throwing in the towel. Why the latter has got to him I don't know as she can't beat him unless he is tripped up by something else eg the civil cases (this one, fraud or ballot issue) or one of the criminal cases. To me it makes sense she stays in, in case one of those happens and she then becomes the default.
Similarly with music, I have not trouble believing an AI can perfect the mechanics of any musical genre. However, what it can't capture - at least physically - is context. There are songs that only work because of who they are by and where they were made.
Take, say, The Happy Mondays and Shaun Ryder. Obviously you could feed an AI every Mondays and Black Grape track, plus his turn of phrase, and create endless copies that approximated, even improved, their sound somehow.
Except it wouldn't. Because a big part of the appeal isn't in the music itself, but who's delivering it and the context it is being performed or heard in. Similar to a lot of punk. It draws its energy and appeal from its context, rather than content. AI can do the latter, no doubt. But by definition can't do the former.
And, of course, not everything is computable.
AI answers to questions are golden rays of the obvious.
The fact that Haley can get a significant proportion of their votes as she starts more openly to call out his shit must wind him up considerably.
Trump is not entirely motivated by reason.
If publishers, art galleries, opera houses and concert halls can harmlessly make money by AI producing stuff that commands the paying audiences's hard cash, wins prizes, gets top reviews from people who don't know its source and so on then so be it. You win.
I shall wait and see.
If we're talking about the arts as things to be appreciated by an audience, the answer is almost certainly "we've got more than enough, already". Writing novels or plays stopped being a sensible career plan ages ago- not because authors are in competition with AI, but they are in competition with the dead.
The harder bit is art to do something functional with- the artwork for a book cover, the animation for a TV commercial. The way that a lot of pukka artists paid the bills to spend time with their muse.
That sort of thing is definitely on the way out, which sucks if you are, say, the next Richard Williams. But the urge to create, and the prejuidce that music is different to Muzak, aren't going anywhere.
Can't we talk about something slightly interesting, Brexit or PR?
Who could possibly disagree with this?
You've just swapped the word humans with "context"
This is not a high level of debate, TBH
Why desire a Verneer? Not for the image, but for the fact that Vermeer painted it, and lots of people desire it. An AI new Vermeer has none of that.
Stock Aitken and Waterman had an 'algorithm' for making hit records. They recycled popular tunes, including classical melodies.
Rihanna's 'shut up and drive' is Blue Monday with new words. SOS is Tainted Love.
Somebody squeezed 7 seasons of Elementary out of Sherlock Homes, and that will not be the last adaptation ever produced.
The "fine art" argument is then about what a small number of self-poliicing snobs consider to be "valuable" regardless of aesthetic quality.
All that said, I am opposed to this generation of gen AI art because insufficient attention has been paid to copyright, licensing and the law around derivative works.
Not obvious how to define that algorithmically.
It's really quite good. I would put it on my iphone playlist, it is weirdly moving. However this is not pure AI music, the original tune is human, and the adapted voice. This is collaboration (as we have seen in other AI artforms, the best so far are where humans and machines work together)
But then eventually the machines will simply take over. There is no "human" special sauce that machines can never master
https://x.com/Witmore13/status/1750911793881612491?s=20
Jews were clearly the bulk of the victims. But there were large numbers of homosexuals, Roma, trade unionists and others as well.
They should be remembered as well
https://twitter.com/georgegalloway/status/1751271087562768447
Give us one example over all of history of art not made by a human?
You can't. It doesn't exist.
Your current argument is that in the future machines could produce art, but only by pretending to be human.
And if they are not really human, it's not really art.
It may be beautiful. It may be desirable. Diamonds are both. They are not art.
Along with sets of ration cards, invitation cards (for instance, to celebrate the birthday of HM KIng Frederik IX) was delighted to find an Official Programme of the Victory Celebrations 8th June 1946.
The flypast consisted of: Hurricanes, Sunderlands, Lancasters, Mosquitos, Sea Mosquitos, Beaufighters, Firebrands, Seafires, Spitfires, Fireflies, Tempests, Meteors, Vampires.
What a sight - and sound. Have to say, never heard of a Sea Mosquito. Did they really fly them from aircraft carriers?
This is like your Brexit monomania
"Brexit is shit"
"Only humans can make art"
We get it, thanks, enough now, have a lie down
More here: https://airscapemag.com/2015/07/26/secrets-of-the-sea-mosquito/
Time for wine, Netflix then a flight to PP tomorrow
Goodnight, PB
Torpedo bomber.
They didn't make many.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito
Henry Staunton has been ousted after just a year as the Post Office chairman amid mounting tensions with its government shareholder, Sky News can exclusively reveal."
https://news.sky.com/story/post-office-chairman-to-leave-amid-row-with-government-13057745
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PU5xxh5UX4U
Because appointing the likes of Case, Wormald, Kelly, Acland-Hood etc is really going to strengthen corporate governance.
I mean, it's not like any of them have been investigated by the police for trampling on sundry laws, or disciplined for professional misconduct, or failed completely in every role they've ever held, is it?
https://twitter.com/MattCartoonist/status/1751297728800313684
He just doesn’t know how to relate to them.
It’s like Shakespeare’s ages of man. Children love a bit of naff, then they discover coolness, they take this with them into adulthood until the second childhood, when they discover naffness again.
Folding pictures of our royal overlords.
You can’t lie to them, argue with them, bribe them, get an exemption because *your* God has told you are special.
Even the maddest know this.
Actually, no I couldn't, because
(A) OGH doesn't like that word and
(B) it's very unfair to c....
An investigation by the Observer and the campaign group Led by Donkeys reveals for the first time details of Home Office decisions on Rwandans who have been given asylum in the past four months, claiming they were at risk from the regime.
The documents raise fresh questions over prime minister Rishi Sunak’s claim that Rwanda is “unequivocally” safe for asylum seekers.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/27/revealed-uk-granted-asylum-to-rwandan-refugees-while-arguing-country-was-safe
But on the whole 'cultural superiority' thing, I used to work with this plummy bloke, we were not-quite-mates, and I remember once telling him how my (upwardly working class) dad liked Glenfiddich rather than bog standard scotch. "Ah the poor man's single malt," he said, expression like somebody had farted.
Quite a vivid memory.
In the UK the original”evangelicals” were Methodists not fundies.
Not really the same thing at all.
"Can an Act of Parliament legislate in advance for the nature of future facts, Mr Eadie?"