"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
For the record, my cynicism comes from spending too much time with human beings.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
What about people who say they’re Republicans that want to abolish the monarchy accepting knighthoods?
Not that I would ever be considered for one, but I'd accept a knighthood if offered and am a "non practising" republican. I don't see a big conflict. If I was in charge, the rules would be different, but I am not in charge (and shouldn't be) so live mostly by societies norms, which include honours, even if I would do some things very differently.
Even disregarding the republican element (of which I would be part of), I still think an honours system that literally bases itself on the British Empire is deeply dodgy - just one of the many things Benjamin Zephaniah was sound on.
Entertainingly I’d think the Venn diagram of people who defend honours and who also loudly bellow that the UK has move entirely on from days of empire would have a well populated intersection.
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
Deltics are the only diesels worth riding behind. Peaks second best. Class 37s if you're a coalwagon.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Er, "we". For sure, not the whole UK.
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
It now blesses homosexual couples married in English law but it doesn't have to align with English law on everything. After all adultery is legal, that doesn't mean it has to bless adultery
Conversely, paedophilia is illegal....
As it is in the Church of England.
Indeed the Roman Catholic church which was the national church until the Church of England was established has had the biggest problem with paedophiles, partly as it doesn't have women priests and doesn't allow priests to marry unlike the Church of England
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
I don't think "very few having active graveyards" is accurate, but I also don't know where to find the precise number that are open (the best way may be a survey of Diocesan Chancellors, who should know for their Diocese, or perhaps a phone call to the Church Commissioners).
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
Deltics are the only diesels worth riding behind. Peaks second best. Class 37s if you're a coalwagon.
Call me a coalwagon then!
You're a coalwagon.
And if you prefer 37s, you're also probably deaf.
There's just something about the 37s. They're the perfect balance of power/performance/weight/speed, which is why they've survived much longer (double, or perhaps triple) the lifetime of more 'prestigious' classes, such as the 55s, 50s or 40s. This is subjective, but they also look great in any livery.
Built between 1960 and 1965, and many still in useful work on the mainline.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
I deserve honours.
Nah, nepotism. Son of a venerated political blogger doesn't qualify. 🤣
I wonder if it's a sign Welby is considering retirement in the near future? I know he's said he would go on to 70 but he's had rather a lot on his plate since his sabbatical.
Would be some fun betting opportunities on the replacement. Graham Usher would surely start as favourite but that would seriously annoy the evangelical wing of the church.
The Bishops of London and Newcastle would also be contenders as first female Archbishop. Either way it will likely be a liberal Catholic after the conservative evangelical Welby on the usual rotation eg liberal Catholic Runcie, conservative evangelical Carey, liberal Catholic Williams, conservative evangelical Welby
I don't think that either Carey or Welby can be called conservative evangelicals.
George Carey was influenced by charismatic renewal, and wrote a book about Anglican-RC rapprochment called The Meeting of the Waters.
Justin Welby was formed by Holy Trinity Brompton, followed by a very varied history including Coventry Cathedral, and has imo been far more successful than Carey in reaching to all traditions in the CofE. Much of that is that the CofE is now more open to greater diversity.
A conservative evangelical would be from somewhere more like All Souls Langham Place, St Helens Bishopsgate, St Ebbes Oxford or Christ Church Fulwood near @TSE Land.
IMO the last ABC who could be called (at a stretch) a conservative evangelical was Donald Coggan 1974 to 1980, but even he was a supporter of womens' ordination even then, and furthered relations with the Roman Catholics.
On the betting market, ABC's have been remarkably consistent in the lengths of their terms since 1980 at 10-11 years each for Robert Runcie, George Carey and Rowan Williams, with a Lambeth Conference a couple of years from the end once they have become well established.
Justin Welby did his Lambeth Conference in 2022, having become ABC in March 2013.
So that perhaps argues for 2024 being a more likely departure date than 2025, absent other factors.
It's also worth looking at whether they want a long-term-Bishop being translated to Canterbury, or a rapid promotion as were Welby and Carey, a scholar like Williams (who speaks 3 languages and reads 9), or someone like Runcie, or something entirely different.
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Sir Humphrey Appleby GCB.
Entertainingly I’d think the Venn diagram of people who defend honours and who also loudly bellow that the UK has move entirely on from days of empire would have a well populated intersection.
And if you prefer 37s, you're also probably deaf.
Indeed the Roman Catholic church which was the national church until the Church of England was established has had the biggest problem with paedophiles, partly as it doesn't have women priests and doesn't allow priests to marry unlike the Church of England
IMO the number open is likely to be perhaps 50-60% from a former total of 18,000, depending on whether you count open-for-spouses-to-be-interred-with-their-partner, special permission from an Archbishop, or columbaria for interment of ashes. There is some information here from historic England:
https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/publications/cemeteries-churchyards-burial-grounds/cemeteries-churchyards-burial-grounds/
Entitlement to be buried in a CofE churchyard is:
Unless the churchyard is closed by Order in Council under the Burial Act of 1853 the following people have a right to be buried in your churchyard:
Residents in your parish
Those whose names are on the church electoral roll
Those dying in your parish
An incumbent can also allow anyone else to be buried in your churchyard. But you should get guidance from your Parochial Church Council.
https://www.churchofengland.org/resources/churchcare/advice-and-guidance-church-buildings/new-burials-and-memorials
Built between 1960 and 1965, and many still in useful work on the mainline.
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George Carey was influenced by charismatic renewal, and wrote a book about Anglican-RC rapprochment called The Meeting of the Waters.
Justin Welby was formed by Holy Trinity Brompton, followed by a very varied history including Coventry Cathedral, and has imo been far more successful than Carey in reaching to all traditions in the CofE. Much of that is that the CofE is now more open to greater diversity.
A conservative evangelical would be from somewhere more like All Souls Langham Place, St Helens Bishopsgate, St Ebbes Oxford or Christ Church Fulwood near @TSE Land.
IMO the last ABC who could be called (at a stretch) a conservative evangelical was Donald Coggan 1974 to 1980, but even he was a supporter of womens' ordination even then, and furthered relations with the Roman Catholics.
On the betting market, ABC's have been remarkably consistent in the lengths of their terms since 1980 at 10-11 years each for Robert Runcie, George Carey and Rowan Williams, with a Lambeth Conference a couple of years from the end once they have become well established.
Justin Welby did his Lambeth Conference in 2022, having become ABC in March 2013.
So that perhaps argues for 2024 being a more likely departure date than 2025, absent other factors.
It's also worth looking at whether they want a long-term-Bishop being translated to Canterbury, or a rapid promotion as were Welby and Carey, a scholar like Williams (who speaks 3 languages and reads 9), or someone like Runcie, or something entirely different.