"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
The latest headlines on Michelle Mone this morning may be making many Conservatives sweat,
I hear on the grapevine that there is a lot more to come out concerning several others in the network of a leading lately ennobled Baroness, including serving MPs, and that Michelle Mone may be only the most egregious example of flagrant and likely illegal profiteering by Tories during the pandemic.
The ennui, even despair, of the Tory Party at this point may not just be the normal swing of politics, but that there is actually so much more to emerge.
It may be safer for Sunak NOT to hang on, and take the shellacking now, because if this starts coming out before the election, then the Tories really could be facing an ELE.
Quite startling that even the DM has decided that she's not after all the shining light of modern Toryism and Unionism. Mind, they still get to print as many photos of underdressed ladies as before, so it's all good for them.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
For most of them they are Good Conduct Medals - X years of undetected crime.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Palantir has been awarded a £330 million NHS data contract. Also from that link:-
The email and briefing papers also reveal that Palantir has teamed up with Topham Guerin, a controversial PR firm which worked for the Conservative Party. During the 2019 General Election, for example, the company rebranded the party’s Twitter profile as a fact-checking account and set up a website linking to a fake Labour manifesto.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Does it matter? As you say, the trinkets are worthless, so who cares who gets them?
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Does it matter? As you say, the trinkets are worthless, so who cares who gets them?
Makes me think deep down there is some association of value there.....
ETA spoiler: if targets are pie in the sky, there is no point striving to meet them.
To my mind, the worst problem in government is the endemic corruption among groups of people who hold positions of authority. This includes politicians, police, social services, banks, legal professionals, local authorities etc., and goes way beyond brown envelopes. That doesn’t mean a majority of such people are corrupt, but enough are to cause real problems.
I heard a BBC podcast about the disappearance of Vishal Mehotra, in 1981. It seems plain the boy was kidnapped and murdered by paedophiles. Sussex police, charged with investigating the case, plainly did not care; disregarded evidence against the prime suspect, who fled to Sri Lanka; then, once a journalist and retired police inspector began digging into the case and asking awkward questions, stonewalled and misled them and the family.
And, these scandals occur over and again in public life. A callous disregard for those that are supposed to be protected, with an instinctive desire to cover up and mislead, after mistakes are exposed.
Palantir has been awarded a £330 million NHS data contract. Also from that link:-
The email and briefing papers also reveal that Palantir has teamed up with Topham Guerin, a controversial PR firm which worked for the Conservative Party. During the 2019 General Election, for example, the company rebranded the party’s Twitter profile as a fact-checking account and set up a website linking to a fake Labour manifesto.
There was an absolutely delicious tweet, even by Jolyon standards, yesterday, re a Times headline...in case anyone wants a laugh today!
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
Yup, that's me told, I really should know my place.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
For some reason I am thinking of the senior policeman who -
1) Enjoyed making complaints about officers not wearing body armour while typing reports in secure offices 2) When confronted with a terrorist murdering an officer in front of his eyes, locked himself in his car. With the excuse that he wasn’t wearing his body armour. 3) After his subsequent retirement party, he arranged for a message to be sent out, berating officers for not attending and showing insufficient enthusiasm for the speeches praising him.
ETA spoiler: if targets are pie in the sky, there is no point striving to meet them.
To my mind, the worst problem in government is the endemic corruption among groups of people who hold positions of authority. This includes politicians, police, social services, banks, legal professionals, local authorities etc., and goes way beyond brown envelopes. That doesn’t mean a majority of such people are corrupt, but enough are to cause real problems.
I heard a BBC podcast about the disappearance of Vishal Mehotra, in 1981. It seems plain the boy was kidnapped and murdered by paedophiles. Sussex police, charged with investigating the case, plainly did not care; disregarded evidence against the prime suspect, who fled to Sri Lanka; then, once a journalist and retired police inspector began digging into the case and asking awkward questions, stonewalled and misled them and the family.
And, these scandals occur over and again in public life. A callous disregard for those that are supposed to be protected, with an instinctive desire to cover up and mislead, after mistakes are exposed.
ETA spoiler: if targets are pie in the sky, there is no point striving to meet them.
To my mind, the worst problem in government is the endemic corruption among groups of people who hold positions of authority. This includes politicians, police, social services, banks, legal professionals, local authorities etc., and goes way beyond brown envelopes. That doesn’t mean a majority of such people are corrupt, but enough are to cause real problems.
I heard a BBC podcast about the disappearance of Vishal Mehotra, in 1981. It seems plain the boy was kidnapped and murdered by paedophiles. Sussex police, charged with investigating the case, plainly did not care; disregarded evidence against the prime suspect, who fled to Sri Lanka; then, once a journalist and retired police inspector began digging into the case and asking awkward questions, stonewalled and misled them and the family.
And, these scandals occur over and again in public life. A callous disregard for those that are supposed to be protected, with an instinctive desire to cover up and mislead, after mistakes are exposed.
I think it's just that some people want an easy life and easy salary for working a steady shift, and possibly the social approval that comes with it, without any of the hard stuff.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
What do you think a fire stopper did as a career......
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
Yup, that's me told, I really should know my place.
No, you’re providing a useful function with your caustic comments.
ETA spoiler: if targets are pie in the sky, there is no point striving to meet them.
To my mind, the worst problem in government is the endemic corruption among groups of people who hold positions of authority. This includes politicians, police, social services, banks, legal professionals, local authorities etc., and goes way beyond brown envelopes. That doesn’t mean a majority of such people are corrupt, but enough are to cause real problems.
I heard a BBC podcast about the disappearance of Vishal Mehotra, in 1981. It seems plain the boy was kidnapped and murdered by paedophiles. Sussex police, charged with investigating the case, plainly did not care; disregarded evidence against the prime suspect, who fled to Sri Lanka; then, once a journalist and retired police inspector began digging into the case and asking awkward questions, stonewalled and misled them and the family.
And, these scandals occur over and again in public life. A callous disregard for those that are supposed to be protected, with an instinctive desire to cover up and mislead, after mistakes are exposed.
I think it's just that some people want an easy life and easy salary for working a steady shift, and possibly the social approval that comes with it, without any of the hard stuff.
Yes - it more about third degree jobsworthism at every level, rather than outright bags of money.
Ignore the wrong kind of problems, be a safe pair of hands, be invited into the #NU10K. Get a gong.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
British politics needs more Dominic Cummingses ... If the covid inquiry is revealing anything, it is that we are way too obsessed with who said what when, not with how to do better next time. In a strange and underreported turn of events, the inquiry is starting to vindicate Dominic Cummings’ view of Whitehall. https://thecritic.co.uk/british-politics-needs-more-dominic-cummingses/
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Palantir has been awarded a £330 million NHS data contract. Also from that link:-
The email and briefing papers also reveal that Palantir has teamed up with Topham Guerin, a controversial PR firm which worked for the Conservative Party. During the 2019 General Election, for example, the company rebranded the party’s Twitter profile as a fact-checking account and set up a website linking to a fake Labour manifesto.
Well, what do you expect from a company whose founder decided to call it "Palantir". For those that didn't read Lord of the Rings, the Palantirs were a communications device network which the evil Lord Sauron used to corrupt and undermine the free world.
The other company which thought it was fun to have its own malice hidden in plain sight was Oakam, the payday loan firm named after the product of forced labour in Victorian workhouses.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
The wealthy provide a public service, and are rightly rewarded with six figure salaries and awards. Everyone else in the public sector is a lazy scrounger who ought to be sacked.
They might have a brief consultation with them but it will be the Church of England that has the final say. The Archbishop of Canterbury is only actual leader of the Church of England after all, merely symbolic head of the Anglican communion
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
I wonder if it's a sign Welby is considering retirement in the near future? I know he's said he would go on to 70 but he's had rather a lot on his plate since his sabbatical.
Would be some fun betting opportunities on the replacement. Graham Usher would surely start as favourite but that would seriously annoy the evangelical wing of the church.
The Bishops of London and Newcastle would also be contenders as first female Archbishop. Either way it will likely be a liberal Catholic after the conservative evangelical Welby on the usual rotation eg liberal Catholic Runcie, conservative evangelical Carey, liberal Catholic Williams, conservative evangelical Welby
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
That's a rather optimistic way to talk about the Royal Family.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
So no-one deserves any extra recognition for what they do, beyond their salary? That feels to me a little odd. I am not a particular fan of the over-proliferation of gongs in the political fields, particularly, but many people in high profile roles do play a large part in public service and national life. It feels correct that they may be awarded some kind of recognition for that role. We can argue about whether or not particular cases are well deserved (there are plenty that are not) but I don’t think the concept is incorrect.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Have a google for honours consultants. Lots and lots of focus on the money there - both in payments to the experts and on how to spend it to get the best chance of honours.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Precisely. They are doing a job that gives them a nice fat salary. That's why they are there.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Have a google for honours consultants. Lots and lots of focus on the money there - both in payments to the experts and on how to spend it to get the best chance of honours.
Like too many features of modern British life, corruption is common. And a scandal.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
Tories are a sub-set of the Conservatives. Some may even be in Reform now. I think there is a gap in the political market for a "Modern Whig" party which would include Lib Dems like myself who do not ID as "social liberals" and the non-Tory left wing Conservatives.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
Lots of humanists are of course also theists, and of these quite a few in this country are CoE humanist theists. Though even if Tory by inclination (me for example) have no plans to identify Toryism with the Conservative party in its current mood.
there is no evidence whatsoever that is available to the British government to suggest that alien life forms have ever existed
Though that could be because the evidence was on WhatsApp.
So it's Aliens who are responsible for the disappearing messages - makes sense..
Woke Trans Illegal Alien AIs. Who also stole @Leon
Good old @Leon. We need him back. There are too many stuck-up Puritan self-righteous worthies on here. What we need is a drugged up flint knapping specialist dating hot young women.
If you’re not a hot young woman, what’s in it for you ?
And if you are, what’s in it for you ?
On topic, sort of as it’s in the header. “Do Aliens exist - here’s everything I know as a former PM.”
I’ve read this, now my mums put the paper down, and do I trust what he is saying or is he just making it up, or wouldn’t this be covered by some sort of official secrets act ongoing after office?
He certainly is missing the No 10 hairdresser. Not his usual neat self in the video.
“ Perhaps Oumuamua will return bearing kidnapped racehorse Shergar and Lord Lucan and Amelia Earhart — regaling each other with the missing WhatsApps from Penny Mordaunt's phone. But somehow I don't think so.”
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
So no-one deserves any extra recognition for what they do, beyond their salary? That feels to me a little odd. I am not a particular fan of the over-proliferation of gongs in the political fields, particularly, but many people in high profile roles do play a large part in public service and national life. It feels correct that they may be awarded some kind of recognition for that role. We can argue about whether or not particular cases are well deserved (there are plenty that are not) but I don’t think the concept is incorrect.
If you go above and beyond the call of duty, then a little extra reward would be appropriate. I once got a gift voucher from work with which I was able to pay for a new shirt.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Precisely. They are doing a job that gives them a nice fat salary. That's why they are there.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
I can assure you that pretty much everyone in a very senior, public facing leadership role, especially as significant as the AofC, could be earning far more than double their salaries elsewhere.
Always fascinates me, too, how people who consider these titles to be of little value are nevertheless still very keen to object to them...
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
British politics needs more Dominic Cummingses ... If the covid inquiry is revealing anything, it is that we are way too obsessed with who said what when, not with how to do better next time. In a strange and underreported turn of events, the inquiry is starting to vindicate Dominic Cummings’ view of Whitehall. https://thecritic.co.uk/british-politics-needs-more-dominic-cummingses/
A lit of people don’t really want things done, they just want people they voted for to be doing things
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of they're employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
Throughout I've been talking about the Archbishop.
Always looking for the negative, rather than the positive - another sign of those who wish to tear down rather than build back up. Always been in a minority in the country. I think that is still the case. Thank God.
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Precisely. They are doing a job that gives them a nice fat salary. That's why they are there.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
I can assure you that pretty much everyone in a very senior, public facing leadership role, especially as significant as the AofC, could be earning far more than double their salaries elsewhere.
Always fascinates me, too, how people who consider these titles to be of little value are nevertheless still very keen to object to them...
Wasn’t Welby a senior oil executive, who was tipped for significant advancement in the industry?
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of they're employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
Throughout I've been talking about the Archbishop.
Always looking for the negative, rather than the positive - another sign of those who wish to tear down rather than build back up. Always been in a minority in the country. I think that is still the case. Thank God.
If you don't think that the place needs a bit of refurbishment, then you've been asleep for the last 20 years!
ETA spoiler: if targets are pie in the sky, there is no point striving to meet them.
To my mind, the worst problem in government is the endemic corruption among groups of people who hold positions of authority. This includes politicians, police, social services, banks, legal professionals, local authorities etc., and goes way beyond brown envelopes. That doesn’t mean a majority of such people are corrupt, but enough are to cause real problems.
[snip]
The key word here is "groups". People will do far worse things as part of a collective than they would as individuals. "Take one for the team". "This will make the company look bad, if it gets out". "The community does not approve of this".
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Precisely. They are doing a job that gives them a nice fat salary. That's why they are there.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
I can assure you that pretty much everyone in a very senior, public facing leadership role, especially as significant as the AofC, could be earning far more than double their salaries elsewhere.
Always fascinates me, too, how people who consider these titles to be of little value are nevertheless still very keen to object to them...
Are there many roles for bishops in the private sector?
Palantir has been awarded a £330 million NHS data contract. Also from that link:-
The email and briefing papers also reveal that Palantir has teamed up with Topham Guerin, a controversial PR firm which worked for the Conservative Party. During the 2019 General Election, for example, the company rebranded the party’s Twitter profile as a fact-checking account and set up a website linking to a fake Labour manifesto.
Well, what do you expect from a company whose founder decided to call it "Palantir". For those that didn't read Lord of the Rings, the Palantirs were a communications device network which the evil Lord Sauron used to corrupt and undermine the free world.
The other company which thought it was fun to have its own malice hidden in plain sight was Oakam, the payday loan firm named after the product of forced labour in Victorian workhouses.
Though they were made in Heaven. And one remains there….
Then again the Palantiri were (probably) made by Feanor.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
If someone has the ability and drive (and sadly the right connections) to reach the top of the tree in their field, that is one thing. They'll do very nicely out of it.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Yet more focus on the money.....
Precisely. They are doing a job that gives them a nice fat salary. That's why they are there.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
I can assure you that pretty much everyone in a very senior, public facing leadership role, especially as significant as the AofC, could be earning far more than double their salaries elsewhere.
Always fascinates me, too, how people who consider these titles to be of little value are nevertheless still very keen to object to them...
Are there many roles for bishops in the private sector?
I'm not aware of any in our company.
To be fair to Welby he was Treasurer of Enterprise Oil PLC before he joined the clergy
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why do you have to be something so definite? Can't you just vote for a party that aligns roughly with what you want?
Encouraging new poll for Haley in New Hampshire. 4 points behind. Dare one dare to believe?
She could really do with a good showing in Iowa too. At least second place is a must IMHO. If she gets a decent showing in Iowa, wins NH (forcing DeSantis and Christie out of the race), then we could see a contest.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
What about people who say they’re Republicans that want to abolish the monarchy accepting knighthoods?
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
What about people who say they’re Republicans that want to abolish the monarchy accepting knighthoods?
Clearly trying to subvert the system from the inside!
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
What about people who say they’re Republicans that want to abolish the monarchy accepting knighthoods?
Not that I would ever be considered for one, but I'd accept a knighthood if offered and am a "non practising" republican. I don't see a big conflict. If I was in charge, the rules would be different, but I am not in charge (and shouldn't be) so live mostly by societies norms, which include honours, even if I would do some things very differently.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Its Gods will! And we know this because the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandson of the bloke who pulled a stone out of some rock told us so.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Er, "we". For sure, not the whole UK.
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
"They make the laws to chain us well The clergy dazzle us with heaven, or they damn us into hell We will not worship the God they serve, a God of greed who feeds the rich while poor folk starve"
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
I want one.
Plus a Violet Club.
Don't forget the ball-bearings. Almost as bad as finding one has no batteries or 13A plug on Christmas morning when you find you need some for the latest toy.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
The idea is that by nationalising God Bothering, the official God Botherers can prevent nearly all actual God Bothering. Which has kept things quiet for a good long while.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Its Gods will! And we know this because the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandson of the bloke who pulled a stone out of some rock told us so.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is the only sensible basis for a system of government.
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
I want one.
Plus a Violet Club.
Don't forget the ball-bearings. Almost as bad as finding one has no batteries or 13A plug on Christmas morning when you find you need some for the latest toy.
Only slackers need the ball bearings.
I always liked the idea of something that the 1950s RAF* said was insanely dangerous.
*an organisation that was killing pilots faster that the Battle of Britain, at one point. In peacetime.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Er, "we". For sure, not the whole UK.
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
Yes it does. English law, made in parliament, confers a right to civil same sex marriage but not a right to religious same sex marriage. This is not a special CoE thing. The Coe conforms to English law precisely. Ask a Roman Catholic or a baptist. Religions have mixed views on this, as do, globally, non religious people.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Of course the coronation included representativee from other denominations and religions too as well as humanists
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
The idea is that by nationalising God Bothering, the official God Botherers can prevent nearly all actual God Bothering. Which has kept things quiet for a good long while.
Quite a lot of people of all views, especially but not only in rural areas, are quite content to have a national church for which they have absolutely no duties but do have some rights. These rights exist because of the nature of an established church and the voluntary efforts of a small but remarkable group of loyal parishioners in almost every corner of England; they are usually fantastically community minded. They keep the roof on too.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Presumably Tory Humanists would recognise claims of humanism as being inherently atheistic as a recent carpetbagging exercise, albeit supported by a furiously self-righteous marketing campaign in the last decade or five.
Far before this happened the term was used of theologians such as Erasmus half a millenium ago, which I think would fit in perfectly with Conservatives who embrace traditional Tory values as laid out by @HYUFD .
Humanism is to do with beliefs about individual human autonomy, and nothing to do with (lack of) theology.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
I think what is more striking about this Daily Mail front page is the fact that former PM Boris is commenting about the likelihood of aliens! It shows the Tories have run out of ideas and things to talk about and even the Tory supporting press knows it too…
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Er, "we". For sure, not the whole UK.
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
It now blesses homosexual couples married in English law but it doesn't have to align with English law on everything. After all adultery is legal, that doesn't mean it has to bless adultery
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Presumably Tory Humanists would recognise claims of humanism as being inherently atheistic as a recent carpetbagging exercise, albeit supported by a furiously self-righteous marketing campaign in the last decade or five.
Far before this happened the term was used of theologians such as Erasmus half a millenium ago, which I think would fit in perfectly with Conservatives who embrace traditional Tory values as laid out by @HYUFD .
Humanism is to do with beliefs about individual humans, and nothing to do with (lack of) theology.
Exactly. Along with Erasmus and multitudes I too am a humanist theist.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
Yes you are entitled to be buried there if there is a spare plot in the graveyard as well as to have a funeral there
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
Yes you are entitled to be buried there if there is a spare plot in the graveyard as well as to have a funeral there
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
I deserve honours.
Considering I spend my life trying to clean up the clusterfucks of the DfE I think I should have all their honours and all their salaries.
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
The idea is that by nationalising God Bothering, the official God Botherers can prevent nearly all actual God Bothering. Which has kept things quiet for a good long while.
I thought it was mainly an asset management scheme for the upkeep of old churches?
Disestablishmentism is one of those things never urgent enough to undertake as long as no-one who matters does anything particularly stupid. Conceptually, an established church is at least a century out of date but it'll quietly rumble on as long as it stays off controversy.
There is very much a case for reforming the coronation oaths though. I was a little surprised they didn't do so for Charles's. As always with these things, the difficult bit is not what you cut out but what you put in its place but there are enough examples elsewhere to work with, not to mention some decent wordsmiths out there who could input. And I don't accept the argument that the constitution is so fragile that if you unpick one minor part of it, the rest falls apart. Removing the references in the Oath to the protestant church need not mean removing the monarch as head of the Church, or disestablishing the CofE, or removing the bishops from the Lords (though all could be done without undermining the more meaningful political aspects of the constitution).
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
I prefer inactive graveyards personally.
The advantage of those is they can be maintained with a skeleton staff.
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
Deltics are the only diesels worth riding behind. Peaks second best. Class 37s if you're a coalwagon.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
As everyone who lives in their Parish is automatically entitled to be married or buried in their local Church of England Parish Church.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
You are not automatically entitled to be buried in a Church of England church. Not least because very few of them now have active graveyards.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
I prefer inactive graveyards personally.
Mark Twain said, in one of his stories, something like “in those days, the fashion was keeping and filling one’s own graveyard”.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
Are you taking the piss?
No, and in my experience, I find that those who don't understand the concept of public service are often blinded by cynicism born of petty grievance and class envy.
For the record, my cynicism comes from spending too much time with human beings.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Its Gods will! And we know this because the great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandson of the bloke who pulled a stone out of some rock told us so.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is the only sensible basis for a system of government.
No and no. You can't be a Tory and not support the monarchy and Church of England as established church for starters. While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
Can’t one be a Conservative and a humanist? Or are Tories and Conservatives (slightly) different beings?
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
You could in theory be a Tory humanist but only if you supported the monarchy and the Church of England remaining the established church.
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Why, apart from historical ‘habit’ do we have to have an ‘established’ church? Especially one which probably doesn’t have the biggest membership? Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Er, "we". For sure, not the whole UK.
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
It now blesses homosexual couples married in English law but it doesn't have to align with English law on everything. After all adultery is legal, that doesn't mean it has to bless adultery
I have figured out how Santa sorts out the naughty and nice children. There are two Santa Special trains running on the East Lancashire Railway today, top and tailed by steam (at the Rawtenstall end) and diesel (at the Bury end).
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
Bah. They've all been naughty. Good children would have a Peak or a 37.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
Deltics are the only diesels worth riding behind. Peaks second best. Class 37s if you're a coalwagon.
"Archbishop Lang was created a GCVO after the 1937 coronation and Archbishop Fisher was made one after the 1953 coronation.
Archbishop Temple received the higher ranking Royal Victorian Chain for the 1902 coronation."
So perhaps it's just tradition, not some grand statement.
A grander statement would be not handing out worthless trinkets to entitled establishment tossers just for doing their jobs.
To be brutally honest, I find this sort of attitude petty-minded and self-defeating. Leadership roles are hard without the media intrusion, and public service is something worth celebrating.
I disagree with a good chunk of what Welby has said/done, especially during Covid, but think he more than deserves a a knighthood
Why? Why ex PMs, Whitehall mandarins, ex Met Chief constables and ex DPPs et al? Why do they deserve "honours"? Why not you? Or OGH? Nick Palmer has done years of public service, why not him? Or me? We all just do our jobs, never get to climb the greasy pole to the top slots, so we don't deserve to get any baubles. The chief Sky Pilot will end up in the Lords as well, so he's getting a lottery rollover.
Apologies if I'm wrong, but I don't think you have any understanding of the 'service' bit of public service. People are devoted to the public above everything else. Usually above family, above earning money, often above personal health.
The lady picking up litter as she walks down the lane is providing a public service. The archbish, on a nice fat salary, living in Lambeth Palace and being handed out gongs, less so.
Attitudes like this remind me why revolutions always eat themselves.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
What has Welby done, apart from his job? Or Juilan Lewis, Chris Bryant, Alok Sharma, Helen Grant or this fella... Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order. Just doing their well paid jobs.
Inspired people. Kept together an institution that is of real value, not just in Britain, but across the world. An institution that keeps the lonely in company, provides the anxious with some calmness, prevents suicidal people from taking their own lives, provides the hungry with a meal, etc etc
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Then you'd be wrong . The "honours" system is outdated and divisive. Why is an ex assistant to a couple of princes getting a gong? Why those MPs I highlighted? None of them have done anything above what they're expected to do outside of their employment. The simple fact is that they're in the right network. It's not about leadership. If it was, no current Tory MP would deserve one!
Most countries have honours systems (maybe all of them?). The great majority of countries are republics. There is no contradiction. Personally, I'd rather the state recognised service with a few letters and a bit of metal than with hard cash or placements (which isn't to say that doesn't happen too).
Comments
https://goodlawproject.org/pr-firm-topham-guerin-tories-and-palantir-offers-to-pay-influencers-attacks-twitter-x/
Palantir has been awarded a £330 million NHS data contract. Also from that link:-
The email and briefing papers also reveal that Palantir has teamed up with Topham Guerin, a controversial PR firm which worked for the Conservative Party. During the 2019 General Election, for example, the company rebranded the party’s Twitter profile as a fact-checking account and set up a website linking to a fake Labour manifesto.
I heard a BBC podcast about the disappearance of Vishal Mehotra, in 1981. It seems plain the boy was kidnapped and murdered by paedophiles. Sussex police, charged with investigating the case, plainly did not care; disregarded evidence against the prime suspect, who fled to Sri Lanka; then, once a journalist and retired police inspector began digging into the case and asking awkward questions, stonewalled and misled them and the family.
And, these scandals occur over and again in public life. A callous disregard for those that are supposed to be protected, with an instinctive desire to cover up and mislead, after mistakes are exposed.
1) Enjoyed making complaints about officers not wearing body armour while typing reports in secure offices
2) When confronted with a terrorist murdering an officer in front of his eyes, locked himself in his car. With the excuse that he wasn’t wearing his body armour.
3) After his subsequent retirement party, he arranged for a message to be sent out, berating officers for not attending and showing insufficient enthusiasm for the speeches praising him.
Bet he has some tin…. And yes, he does.
Ignore the wrong kind of problems, be a safe pair of hands, be invited into the #NU10K. Get a gong.
...
If the covid inquiry is revealing anything, it is that we are way too obsessed with who said what when, not with how to do better next time. In a strange and underreported turn of events, the inquiry is starting to vindicate Dominic Cummings’ view of Whitehall.
https://thecritic.co.uk/british-politics-needs-more-dominic-cummingses/
While Welby has criticised the government's Rwanda policy on refugees he also joined the Conservatives in criticising anti Semitism within the then Corbyn led Labour party at the last general election let us not forget.
If the King wishes to knight the Archbishop for his help in the coronation that is up to him
The other company which thought it was fun to have its own malice hidden in plain sight was Oakam, the payday loan firm named after the product of forced labour in Victorian workhouses.
The problem with constantly tearing down anyone with the skills and gumption to lead, and inspire others, is it results in anarchy and - usually - is soon replaced by a return to a more respectful social order. Because whilst not perfect, its a darn sight better than negativity and chippiness.
Not that I’ve ever considered being either!
Jason Knauf, a former royal aide who worked for the Prince and Princess of Wales - when they were the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge - and the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, has been recognised for his service to the monarchy. He is named a Lieutenant of the Royal Victorian Order.
Just doing their well paid jobs.
But to then make out that they have "lived a life devoted to public service" is just nonsense.
Used appropriately, homeopathy can be just as effective as placebo
People who disagree with recognition for leadership roles tend to focus on the money. I find this quite telling. It smacks of envy.
Halve the pay, and let's see how much of their 'devotion to public service' remains.
I think there is a gap in the political market for a "Modern Whig" party which would include Lib Dems like myself who do not ID as "social liberals" and the non-Tory left wing Conservatives.
The terms for non-theists is atheist.
Always fascinates me, too, how people who consider these titles to be of little value are nevertheless still very keen to object to them...
Always looking for the negative, rather than the positive - another sign of those who wish to tear down rather than build back up. Always been in a minority in the country. I think that is still the case. Thank God.
Clearly the children who have been nice are rewarded with a ride behind the Class 50, while those who have been naughty have to suffer the Class 47.
"Take one for the team". "This will make the company look bad, if it gets out". "The community does not approve of this".
I'm not aware of any in our company.
Then again the Palantiri were (probably) made by Feanor.
But at least no-one's been so naughty as to deserve a Deltic. Shudders...
Tories are a subset of the Conservative party now along with free market liberals, social conservatives and Brexiteers
Plus a Violet Club.
Trump’s power lies in his inevitability.
Why not, if we have to bring religion into ceremonies, let the various religions and denominations take turns? Or share the ceremonies?
Hi
And, as I keep saying, it doesn't conform to English law on [edit] gay marriage. Quite a few UKG policies, too.
The clergy dazzle us with heaven, or they damn us into hell
We will not worship the God they serve,
a God of greed who feeds the rich while poor folk starve"
As a sometimes great man once sang.
I always liked the idea of something that the 1950s RAF* said was insanely dangerous.
*an organisation that was killing pilots faster that the Battle of Britain, at one point. In peacetime.
No such entitlement is given to be married or buried in any other denomination or religions place of worship unless you are a regular attendee.
Of course the Church of England was also set up as established church with the King as its head so the Roman Catholic church would cease to be the national church
Far before this happened the term was used of theologians such as Erasmus half a millenium ago, which I think would fit in perfectly with Conservatives who embrace traditional Tory values as laid out by @HYUFD .
Humanism is to do with beliefs about individual human autonomy, and nothing to do with (lack of) theology.
You are entitled to a funeral there if you live within the parish, which is somewhat different.
Disestablishmentism is one of those things never urgent enough to undertake as long as no-one who matters does anything particularly stupid. Conceptually, an established church is at least a century out of date but it'll quietly rumble on as long as it stays off controversy.
There is very much a case for reforming the coronation oaths though. I was a little surprised they didn't do so for Charles's. As always with these things, the difficult bit is not what you cut out but what you put in its place but there are enough examples elsewhere to work with, not to mention some decent wordsmiths out there who could input. And I don't accept the argument that the constitution is so fragile that if you unpick one minor part of it, the rest falls apart. Removing the references in the Oath to the protestant church need not mean removing the monarch as head of the Church, or disestablishing the CofE, or removing the bishops from the Lords (though all could be done without undermining the more meaningful political aspects of the constitution).
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