O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Although transphobia did not come up in the trial, the judge, Mrs Justice Yip, may consider it to be an aggravating factor when sentencing one or both of the teenagers. But she told potential jurors on the first day of the trial to put aside any “uninformed views” about Brianna’s killing.
She also took a dim view of online commentators who pronounced that the defendants were transphobic. After the case was opened, the prosecution complained about a tweet from the barrister Jolyon Maugham, the founder of the Good Law Project, saying the teenagers had exchanged “transphobic slurs”.
Yip said the tweet was potentially in contempt of court, a serious crime that has previously resulted in short jail terms for those judged to have prejudiced a trial. Heer said the prosecution had deliberately not used such terms in the presence of the jury.
I assume the remarks in question were one or more of the following:
“Is it a femboy or a tranny?"
“Tell me what you feel when you interact with it”.
“I don’t think you’re necessarily in love but I think you’re more curious and intrigued by its unnatural nature”.
“yeah, it’ll be easier and I want to see if it will scream like a man or a girl”.
As for the non-antitrans part of the murder plot, the couple were intensely interested in carrying out a murder. They prepared to kill two people: one who they thought a nonce, another who they thought an it. The first one changed their plans, so they went for Ghey. Ironically she had anxiety attacks which her mother tried to alleviate by encouraging her to use the bus, thus inadvertently providing an attack window for her killers. Things then proceeded in a predictable fashion.
Predictable fashion? Are you fucking kidding me. How was what happened predictable.
They planned to kill two. One became unavailable. Hence...
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Wellingborough was the 115th safest Conservative seat at the last election and the numbers are very close to Selby & Ainsty in terms of swing.
The North Northamptonshire elections way back in 2021 produced a landslide for the Conservatives but the seats in Wellingborough were quite competitive then and two and a half years on you can see why Labour might fancy their chances. However, that optimism might be tempered by the even more staunchly parts of East Northamptonshire such as Rushden which are also in the Wellingborough Constituency.
For those wondering how Network North could be so badly communicated remember that the whole policy was put together quickly and quietly by a small crack team of Sunak and treasury loyalists because it was really, really important that no-one could possibly know that HS2 was being cancelled ahead of his key speech reveal......
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Yes. Don't hold your breath. Yes.
Recouped from PO top brass bonuses?
No, I'm not holding my breath, either. Although I live in hope!
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Yes. Don't hold your breath. Yes.
The more this drags on the worse it gets.
And the worse it gets the more we should talk about it, shout about it even.
We can each do a little bit to keep it in the public eye, talk to our friends, get them fired up by it too. This is massive and must not be forgotten,
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
That's what you get for waving your private parts in someone's face.
I mean, it's astonishing this sort of behaviour even occurs in the first place.
I know.
Where's the respect for authority?
In my day, you accepted your boss waving his bits with good grace. If you told anyone - which you really shouldn't - it would be your mates down the pub. You certainly wouldn't go crying to some ridiculous standards body.
I must be unlucky. No manager of mine has either waved his dick or her thrupnies in my face. The latter being less offensive than the former.
I believe managers are less likely to wave their bits at unattractive employees.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
That's what you get for waving your private parts in someone's face.
I mean, it's astonishing this sort of behaviour even occurs in the first place.
I know.
Where's the respect for authority?
In my day, you accepted your boss waving his bits with good grace. If you told anyone - which you really shouldn't - it would be your mates down the pub. You certainly wouldn't go crying to some ridiculous standards body.
I must be unlucky. No manager of mine has either waved his dick or her thrupnies in my face. The latter being less offensive than the former.
I believe managers are less likely to wave their bits at unattractive employees.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
Posted on official DfT X account. I know... I was also looking for the indications of it being a spoof.
That, literally, as in my back hurts, made me fall of my chair. It's real? What idiots. What absolute morons.
The more I look at it the more I wonder which person in the DfT social media team is a Labour supporter because outside London that post is worth 1,000s of votes
While I agree with the sentiment, this illustrates a bugbear of mine about modern journalism: the headline that tells you how to feel about the thing (or how others are feeling about the thing, inviting you to join in) before telling you the thing.
See also:
* "Fear of". Polls of people's fears of a thing, instead of the actual thing * "Outrage by". People are outraged by a thing. * "Why we love X". We do? Really?
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Yes. Don't hold your breath. Yes.
The more this drags on the worse it gets.
And the worse it gets the more we should talk about it, shout about it even.
We can each do a little bit to keep it in the public eye, talk to our friends, get them fired up by it too. This is massive and must not be forgotten,
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
I don't think anyone responded to my question yesterday about what happened when 'errors' were 'discovered' at sub-post offices run by large companies such as WH Smith.
OKC - The SPM's were subcontractors, so big outfits like WH Smith would not have been involved.
Barnesian - I believe there were sometimes overstatements as well as under. I think the overs were ignored. The unders were normally recouped under duress from the SPMs. So yes, the PO trousered a lot of money that it was not entitled to, and as far as I am aware, it still has that money.
So the "extra profit" is the result of extortion? I assume that will be returned to the SPMs as well as substantial damages. Should have happened already.
Yes. Don't hold your breath. Yes.
The more this drags on the worse it gets.
Funny you should say that....
One of the actors in the upcoming TV series (starts Jan 1st) said he knew little about the scandal until he got the part. The more he found out about it, the worse it got. He could scarcely believe that it had actually happened.
Many of us who have been following the scandal have gone along a similar path. It starts with curiosity, then shock and horror, and then it gets worse and worse the more you learn about it. It is still getting worse.
On Monday and Tuesday we got a break from the usual parade of hapless PO workers and got to listen to the forensic analysis of Duncan Atkinson KC, who demolished any remaining vestige of credibility that the PO and Fujitsu might have had.
The level of ignorance and incompetence those organisations showed is jaw-dropping, and they are of course by no means the only culprits.
That's what you get for waving your private parts in someone's face.
I mean, it's astonishing this sort of behaviour even occurs in the first place.
I know.
Where's the respect for authority?
In my day, you accepted your boss waving his bits with good grace. If you told anyone - which you really shouldn't - it would be your mates down the pub. You certainly wouldn't go crying to some ridiculous standards body.
I must be unlucky. No manager of mine has either waved his dick or her thrupnies in my face. The latter being less offensive than the former.
I believe managers are less likely to wave their bits at unattractive employees.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
That's what you get for waving your private parts in someone's face.
I mean, it's astonishing this sort of behaviour even occurs in the first place.
I know.
Where's the respect for authority?
In my day, you accepted your boss waving his bits with good grace. If you told anyone - which you really shouldn't - it would be your mates down the pub. You certainly wouldn't go crying to some ridiculous standards body.
I must be unlucky. No manager of mine has either waved his dick or her thrupnies in my face. The latter being less offensive than the former.
I believe managers are less likely to wave their bits at unattractive employees.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
Anyone pointed out yet that inflation falling doesn't imply prices are falling? But prices falling *does* imply inflation falling
I think there are genuine efforts on the BBC and SKY to explain this.
Rather like opinion polls, there are the headline numbers and what the data is actually saying. "Core" inflation remains just above 5% with the fall this month led by declines in fuel prices which could, I suppose, be reversed if there were problems in the Red Sea or Persian Gulf or if the weather turned a lot colder.
I just wonder if the stubborn nature of UK inflation means interest rates may not come down as fast as some (Sunak and Hunt in particular) might want.
For those wondering how Network North could be so badly communicated remember that the whole policy was put together quickly and quietly by a small crack team of Sunak and treasury loyalists because it was really, really important that no-one could possibly know that HS2 was being cancelled ahead of his key speech reveal......
I assumed that because of Sunak's smoking ban they didn't have the requisite back of a fag packet to draw it up on.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I hear the Rwandan boat scheme has received HS2 funding; it's transport, and it's a compass direction ...
I have just been listening to the verdict of the murder of 16 year old Brianna Ghey and words fail me
Apparently two teenagers, one a boy, the other a girl who was friends with Brianna and who Brianna trusted lured her to a park and stabbed her 28 times
It seems the killers had planned the murder as they wanted to experience what killing was like
Such utter evil is impossible to understand
RIP Brianna
From the brief bits of it I had followed had it not been her it would have been someone else.
Utterly awful.
Poor child, all her life ahead of her. snuffed out for no reason at all.
Anyone pointed out yet that inflation falling doesn't imply prices are falling? But prices falling *does* imply inflation falling
Not necessarily. If prices fall by 1% this year after falling by 2% last year then the inflation rate has risen from -2% to -1%.
That's deflation
The inflation rate is defined as the % change in the price level over 12 months and can be a negative number. In any case, for the 12 month inflation rate to fall, you need the price change in a given month to be lower than the same month a year ago. If prices in November 2023 fall but prices in November 2022 fell by more then the inflation rate goes up even though prices have fallen. This kind of scenario is quite common owing to the seasonality in some price components.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
Anyone pointed out yet that inflation falling doesn't imply prices are falling? But prices falling *does* imply inflation falling
Not necessarily. If prices fall by 1% this year after falling by 2% last year then the inflation rate has risen from -2% to -1%.
That's deflation
The inflation rate is defined as the % change in the price level over 12 months and can be a negative number. In any case, for the 12 month inflation rate to fall, you need the price change in a given month to be lower than the same month a year ago. If prices in November 2023 fall but prices in November 2022 fell by more then the inflation rate goes up even though prices have fallen. This kind of scenario is quite common owing to the seasonality in some price components.
Since inflation is a blended rate isn't possible for some things to fall in price whilst others go up?
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
As far as I know, not in this case
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
People can just be grim. My ex kept our dogs, one of them very much “mine”. After we split up she sent me a text to say he had been put down as he was sick. I sent her a delightful response questioning why she didn’t have the decency to let me say goodbye beforehand. She also blamed me for her not having children despite her being the one who didn’t want them when we were together so just never underestimate how batshit people get after a breakup.
I have just been listening to the verdict of the murder of 16 year old Brianna Ghey and words fail me
Apparently two teenagers, one a boy, the other a girl who was friends with Brianna and who Brianna trusted lured her to a park and stabbed her 28 times
It seems the killers had planned the murder as they wanted to experience what killing was like
Such utter evil is impossible to understand
RIP Brianna
From the brief bits of it I had followed had it not been her it would have been someone else.
Utterly awful.
Poor child, all her life ahead of her. snuffed out for no reason at all.
I have just been listening to the verdict of the murder of 16 year old Brianna Ghey and words fail me
Apparently two teenagers, one a boy, the other a girl who was friends with Brianna and who Brianna trusted lured her to a park and stabbed her 28 times
It seems the killers had planned the murder as they wanted to experience what killing was like
Such utter evil is impossible to understand
RIP Brianna
Perhaps they are moral subjectivists, or perhaps emotivists? There's plenty around. Maybe they are students of David Hume;
"It is not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger."
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Recently I learned that software Octopus use is called Kraken which makes me want to use them,
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
The total money “recouped” has not been added up IIRC. Just the money extracted as part of actual prosecutions. The former amount is much larger, I believe.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
Energy prices have gone up 66% in the last two years.
If you or Sunak try and spin that 14% potential drop as a good thing you're in for a rude surprise.
I am not spinning for Sunak or anyone else
I have no band width at present in arguing politics, and have long since accepted Starmer will be next PM and the Conservatives need time in opposition
The point is that why fix now if the energy price may fall in the spring
I have just been listening to the verdict of the murder of 16 year old Brianna Ghey and words fail me
Apparently two teenagers, one a boy, the other a girl who was friends with Brianna and who Brianna trusted lured her to a park and stabbed her 28 times
It seems the killers had planned the murder as they wanted to experience what killing was like
Such utter evil is impossible to understand
RIP Brianna
From the brief bits of it I had followed had it not been her it would have been someone else.
Utterly awful.
Poor child, all her life ahead of her. snuffed out for no reason at all.
Energy prices have gone up 66% in the last two years.
If you or Sunak try and spin that 14% potential drop as a good thing you're in for a rude surprise.
Well, of course it's a good thing. Better to sell to the voters than a further rise of 14%.
Today was my last day at work until the 8th of January, last thing I read was how gas and energy prices could spike in the next few weeks and month on a par with the Ukrainian war if things get messy in the Red Sea.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Anyone pointed out yet that inflation falling doesn't imply prices are falling? But prices falling *does* imply inflation falling
Not necessarily. If prices fall by 1% this year after falling by 2% last year then the inflation rate has risen from -2% to -1%.
That's deflation
The inflation rate is defined as the % change in the price level over 12 months and can be a negative number. In any case, for the 12 month inflation rate to fall, you need the price change in a given month to be lower than the same month a year ago. If prices in November 2023 fall but prices in November 2022 fell by more then the inflation rate goes up even though prices have fallen. This kind of scenario is quite common owing to the seasonality in some price components.
Since inflation is a blended rate isn't possible for some things to fall in price whilst others go up?
Yes, the CPI is defined over a wide ranging basket of goods and services and every month the prices of some components go up and the prices of some go down. Individual prices are aggregated up to create various subcomponents, as well as the headline index.
That's what you get for waving your private parts in someone's face.
I mean, it's astonishing this sort of behaviour even occurs in the first place.
I know.
Where's the respect for authority?
In my day, you accepted your boss waving his bits with good grace. If you told anyone - which you really shouldn't - it would be your mates down the pub. You certainly wouldn't go crying to some ridiculous standards body.
I must be unlucky. No manager of mine has either waved his dick or her thrupnies in my face. The latter being less offensive than the former.
I believe managers are less likely to wave their bits at unattractive employees.
I’m beautiful on the inside. Does that count ?
Only if you want them to wave them on the inside....
What happens when you weaponise ignorance and stupidity for votes...?
I don't know - I think it's partly the deliberate creation of ignorance and confusion: the cumulative effect of the Mr Sunaks of this world speaking as if inflation (without further qualification) is the absolute price of something, rather than its differential. It's impossible otherwise to make sense of what Mr Sunak says in view of how good he makes it sound. We see it all the time on PB,too, but our pet Tories get a rougher ride.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
They are also improving the Metropolitan Line service, in order to benefit Northwood, Northwood Hills, North Harrow and Northwick Park.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
The total money “recouped” has not been added up IIRC. Just the money extracted as part of actual prosecutions. The former amount is much larger, I believe.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
I did this exact same commute for a while but from Dalston Junction on the original Routemaster. Living in London and paying £70 a week in rent. Probably the best years of my life.
It is odd because not much has changed physically to London over the last 20 years (with the exception of tall buildings being thrown up) but the sense of place has in many ways changed profoundly so it is impossible to find the place you knew.
This video of London from 1999 (and the comments on it) is interesting.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
I've commented on this in the past. The PO was making record profits on the back of a strange rise in Other Income, that was (bizarrely) also exactly the same size as the amounts they claimed were being stolen every year.
It makes the claim that pretty much any Post Master was stealing meaningful sums of money almost inconceivable.
Of course. Although it would be equally wrong to assume that every balancing error was actually down to Horizon.
Counter clerks in crown offices have to balance at the end of every day, and experienced ones pride themselves on being able to do so every time. But new clerks regularly find they’re out, by small amounts one way or the other, usually due to a mistake made on one transaction, or a repeated mistake made when counting the cash up at the end of the day.
And of course we can’t assume that every subpostmaster was honest just because the PO wrongly accused so very many. Just helping yourself to the PO’s cash was always pretty dumb, and extremely rare. But ‘borrowing’ from the PO’s cash, usually to fund some sort of addiction, intending to pay it back and covering yourself meanwhile by over-declaring the cash, until either things spiral beyond the ability to repay, or a surprise audit team arrives and finds the SPSO significantly short on cash, while uncommon, wasn’t unknown.
The tragedy is that most innocent balancing mistakes tended to rectify themselves the following week, as miscounting one week would normally work itself through the week following. So honest sub-postmasters covered the discrepancy with their own cash, rather than bothering to recount everything again, expecting things to work out down the line. When they didn’t, some found themselves deeper and deeper in trouble, and the fact of covering their own misbalance back at the beginning both weakened their defence against a charge of ‘false accounting’, made it difficult for them to credibly blame Horizon since they hadn’t reported the original discrepancy, and created a sequence of events that, to the barely-trained PO investigators, looked suspiciously like someone trying to cover using the PO’s cash to cover off some other sort of debt.
Every individual case before the inquiry, whilst you can see the procedural weaknesses, it isn’t hard to see how and why things progressed as they did. The question is why no-one up the chain of command proved so unable to join any dots.
What happens when you weaponise ignorance and stupidity for votes...?
I don't know - I think it's partly the deliberate creation of ignorance and confusion: the cumulative effect of the Mr Sunaks of this world speaking as if inflation (without further qualification) is the absolute price of something, rather than its differential. It's impossible otherwise to make sense of what Mr Sunak says in view of how good he makes it sound. We see it all the time on PB,too, but our pet Tories get a rougher ride.
They just put up taxes. Because they reduced the amount of the increase they're out selling it as a tax cut. Will be the same if energy prices fall back, or food prices.
An endless theme of mine is that most people are not as stupid as the Tories assume. They will try and claim that more is less, but most people not only will know that more is more, they won't Tory MPs / shills trying to con them by claiming that them paying more taxes / bills is them paying less.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
The total money “recouped” has not been added up IIRC. Just the money extracted as part of actual prosecutions. The former amount is much larger, I believe.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Recently I learned that software Octopus use is called Kraken which makes me want to use them,
They have also sublicenced that software to Eon.
Krakens an increasingly important part of their business. A bit like Ocado having become a B2B technology company, it’s interesting how businesses evolve over time.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
As far as I know, not in this case
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
It’s good advice to try and find friends who are better than you.
That can present a challenge, but in your case it widens the pool so very considerably that I’d suggest it’s worth a shot.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
The total money “recouped” has not been added up IIRC. Just the money extracted as part of actual prosecutions. The former amount is much larger, I believe.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Yes and yes. We have been with them for a few years, both for gas and electricity. We have had no problems at all.
On topic I think the Tories will hold Wellingborough. East Midlands is substantially more stickily conservative than the swingier North, the remainer South East or the disillusioned rural South West. And it’s a big majority. This could be Sunak’s gates of Vienna. Which will hopefully lull the Tories into a nice false sense of security.
Gosh, it's taken me a full hour to get through on the live chat, which is supposed to be quicker than ringing. Admittedly, it's nearly impossible to ring BG as they hide their phone number.
O/T but concerning a PB perennial question - about the Horizon scandal, where did the money go if the subPOs didn't steal it?
Short answer, the PO didn't know or seemingly much care.
'It is therefore perfectly likely that the Post Office took money which rightfully belonged to its Subpostmasters and used it to bolster its bottom line. This was part-admitted by Post Office CEO Nick Read in a parliamentary committee meeting in January 2021:
Chair: But you have to do a profit and loss account, do you not, Mr Read, with money coming in and money going out? If victims were putting money into the Post Office, surely you know that money came in from somewhere. Did it just go to your bottom line? Nick Read: It went into a general suspense account.
What Mr Read didn’t tell the Committee was that after three years (according to one source I have spoken to), if entries in the suspense account were not identified and/or claimed, the cash was swept into the Post Office’s P&L account and counted as profit. Trebles on the back of Subpostmaster misery all round.'
So money extracted from postmasters courtesy of Horizon & etc., were ultimately accounted as part of PO profit . . . and thus as part of the calculation & allocation of bonuses for PO "managers"?
IF so, no wonder they were NOT eager to identify let alone correct errors.
As I understand it, the Horizen system was over recording transactions so that the centrally reported revenue was more than the cash in the till. Hence the apparent shortfall that sub-postmasters were prosecuted for.
So there was no extra money or profit. There was an over recording of revenue with presumably a bad debt entry to cover the apparent shortfall in cash.
But as well as prosecuting people for the non-existent shortfall, the Post OFFICE was demanding that shortfalls be made up under threat of prosecution.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
In fact it didn't, because the cost of the prosecutions considerably exceeded the money 'recouped' from the Subpostmasters.
The total money “recouped” has not been added up IIRC. Just the money extracted as part of actual prosecutions. The former amount is much larger, I believe.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
Correct, but it still amounts to a tiny amount the PO spent on prosecutions, defending Horizon, and trying to cover its own arse.
Given the number of complete arses that are covering up, that must have been an expensive process.
Very.
The extraordinary thing is that it doesn't matter what level in the organisation you look at, you find extreme incompetence, ignorance, malice and dishonesty - sometimes bits of each, quite often all mixed in together. You see this in the front line troops employed as 'investigators', their managers, their in-house advisers, and of course, the Board.
The PO also seems to have engaged a hopeless bunch of legal advisers and consultants. No doubt the PO was shopping at the cheap end of the market. If so they got what they paid for.
Wellingborough was the 115th safest Conservative seat at the last election and the numbers are very close to Selby & Ainsty in terms of swing.
The North Northamptonshire elections way back in 2021 produced a landslide for the Conservatives but the seats in Wellingborough were quite competitive then and two and a half years on you can see why Labour might fancy their chances. However, that optimism might be tempered by the even more staunchly parts of East Northamptonshire such as Rushden which are also in the Wellingborough Constituency.
Yes I expect a narrow Labour win given the current polls in Wellingborough and the usual by election protest vote
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
I hear that TfL have received HS2 funding to extend the No. 38 bus route, which currently runs from Victoria Station to Stoke Newington, all the way up to Watford.
Part of the Network North initiative.
I used to get the 38 to work from Angel Islington when it was an old Routemaster. Got off at Piccadilly and walked across Green Park. Great days.
Me too. Dalston to town, though for drinking sessions rather than work.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
Watford Gap?
They are also planning to plug the gap.
Mind The Gap, Shirley?
I think they do Mind The Gap! It allows northerners to travel south. I also hear they would like to close the gap, so that the M1 becomes the M1/2, the A5 becomes the A2.5, the LNWR becomes LR and the Grand Union Canal becomes the Small Disunion Canal.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Yes and yes. We have been with them for a few years, both for gas and electricity. We have had no problems at all.
Also with Octopus, moved to them in October, from BG. Very impressed so far.
We are on their Cosy Plus variable tariff (as in varies through the day), which is saving us quite a bit versus the energy cap so far. (You need to have an ASHP and smart meter for Cosy Plus)
If you're definitely thinking of moving to Octopus get a friend who's already with them to send you the Introducer link - you get £50 and they get £50. (If you haven't got someone who can introduce you PM me - I can do it for you!)
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Yes and yes. We have been with them for a few years, both for gas and electricity. We have had no problems at all.
Also with Octopus, moved to them in October, from BG. Very impressed so far.
We are on their Cosy Plus variable tariff (as in varies through the day), which is saving us quite a bit versus the energy cap so far. (You need to have an ASHP and smart meter for Cosy Plus)
If you're definitely thinking of moving to Octopus get a friend who's already with them to send you the Introducer link - you get £50 and they get £50. (If you haven't got someone who can introduce you PM me - I can do it for you!)
I have a SMETS one meter so that's probably not feasible (unfortunately as it would save me a fortune). Thanks for your other offer, I'll certainly bear it in mind.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
As far as I know, not in this case
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
It’s good advice to try and find friends who are better than you.
That can present a challenge, but in your case it widens the pool so very considerably that I’d suggest it’s worth a shot.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
As far as I know, not in this case
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
It’s good advice to try and find friends who are better than you.
That can present a challenge, but in your case it widens the pool so very considerably that I’d suggest it’s worth a shot.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Yes and yes. We have been with them for a few years, both for gas and electricity. We have had no problems at all.
Also with Octopus, moved to them in October, from BG. Very impressed so far.
We are on their Cosy Plus variable tariff (as in varies through the day), which is saving us quite a bit versus the energy cap so far. (You need to have an ASHP and smart meter for Cosy Plus)
If you're definitely thinking of moving to Octopus get a friend who's already with them to send you the Introducer link - you get £50 and they get £50. (If you haven't got someone who can introduce you PM me - I can do it for you!)
I have a SMETS one meter so that's probably not feasible (unfortunately as it would save me a fortune). Thanks for your other offer, I'll certainly bear it in mind.
With Cosy Plus we paid an average of 23.37p per kWh in October, versus the cap rate of 27.18p for the South West. Not a massive saving but worthwhile: c£380 pa given we are all electric and use about 10,000 kWh per annum for all our heating lighting and cooking.
On topic - Wellingborough is one of those BE that should be a Con opportunity. The mood is that this election is Lab's to lose but in reality that is a huge majority to have to overturn. Holding onto a 18,500 majority would be seen as a major achievement by the Govt (at least by most of the press and media). It should not be an impossible task.
OTOH the Lib Dems will not make a serious effort here. Tactical voting will be the order of the day. If the mood is anything like in Mid Beds then the Cons are headed for a hammering.
All that will be moot if Bone is the Con candidate. That would eliminate any chance of the Cons holding the seat. If one in ten of the electors there believe his denials then I would be amazed. MPs are generally not held in terribly high regard by the Great British public.
Further to the earlier discussion on internal threats to the US, here’s a Berkeley professor calling for an intifada in America. The focus on the far-right ignores the growing radicalisation of the left against western states.
Further to the earlier discussion on internal threats to the US, here’s a Berkeley professor calling for an intifada in America. The focus on the far-right ignores the growing radicalisation of the left against western states.
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
Yes and yes. We have been with them for a few years, both for gas and electricity. We have had no problems at all.
Also with Octopus, moved to them in October, from BG. Very impressed so far.
We are on their Cosy Plus variable tariff (as in varies through the day), which is saving us quite a bit versus the energy cap so far. (You need to have an ASHP and smart meter for Cosy Plus)
If you're definitely thinking of moving to Octopus get a friend who's already with them to send you the Introducer link - you get £50 and they get £50. (If you haven't got someone who can introduce you PM me - I can do it for you!)
I have a SMETS one meter so that's probably not feasible (unfortunately as it would save me a fortune). Thanks for your other offer, I'll certainly bear it in mind.
if any PB-er is going through a messy divorce or break-up, I have a shocker of a story that might console (by putting yours in perspective)
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
I get that some marriages, sadly, end in failure, but not why the divorces have to get so horrible and nasty.
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
As far as I know, not in this case
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
It’s good advice to try and find friends who are better than you.
That can present a challenge, but in your case it widens the pool so very considerably that I’d suggest it’s worth a shot.
LEAVE THE DOG ALONE, IAN
He’s fine, thank you for asking
GB/PB news caption - "Brave British dog threatened by rising tide of Woke extremism"
Comments
Don't hold your breath.
Yes.
Wellingborough was the 115th safest Conservative seat at the last election and the numbers are very close to Selby & Ainsty in terms of swing.
The North Northamptonshire elections way back in 2021 produced a landslide for the Conservatives but the seats in Wellingborough were quite competitive then and two and a half years on you can see why Labour might fancy their chances. However, that optimism might be tempered by the even more staunchly parts of East Northamptonshire such as Rushden which are also in the Wellingborough Constituency.
Part of the Network North initiative.
No, I'm not holding my breath, either. Although I live in hope!
We can each do a little bit to keep it in the public eye, talk to our friends, get them fired up by it too. This is massive and must not be forgotten,
Rishi this is just embarrassing mate.
By the way, my post about extending it to Watford was intended to be a joke.
* "Fear of". Polls of people's fears of a thing, instead of the actual thing
* "Outrage by". People are outraged by a thing.
* "Why we love X". We do? Really?
Will keep us occupied on here!
😈😊😈
Friend of mine told me - yesterday - that he's finally broken up with his partner of 20 years. It has been a long time coming and the last six months have basically been one long argument about this separation. It peaked when my friend went away for work for a fortnight in October, then got a Whatsapp message from his partner, while abroad, telling him she'd "had his dog put down"
She did this despite the kids wailing No, mum, no, even as the vet arrived with his syringe. Sheer spite
One of the actors in the upcoming TV series (starts Jan 1st) said he knew little about the scandal until he got the part. The more he found out about it, the worse it got. He could scarcely believe that it had actually happened.
Many of us who have been following the scandal have gone along a similar path. It starts with curiosity, then shock and horror, and then it gets worse and worse the more you learn about it. It is still getting worse.
On Monday and Tuesday we got a break from the usual parade of hapless PO workers and got to listen to the forensic analysis of Duncan Atkinson KC, who demolished any remaining vestige of credibility that the PO and Fujitsu might have had.
The level of ignorance and incompetence those organisations showed is jaw-dropping, and they are of course by no means the only culprits.
But prices falling *does* imply inflation falling
I wonder if cheating and betrayal was involved?
Rather like opinion polls, there are the headline numbers and what the data is actually saying. "Core" inflation remains just above 5% with the fall this month led by declines in fuel prices which could, I suppose, be reversed if there were problems in the Red Sea or Persian Gulf or if the weather turned a lot colder.
I just wonder if the stubborn nature of UK inflation means interest rates may not come down as fast as some (Sunak and Hunt in particular) might want.
Many, many more people paid money they didn’t owe, under threat of prosecution.
This extra money made the Post Office richer.
Same shit, different day…
However, some forecast a 14% fall in April which would be a substantial drop
I am remaining on a flexible contract for now
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/dec/20/ofgem-energy-price-cap-to-fall-by-14-per-cent-in-april-says-forecaster?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other
In any case, for the 12 month inflation rate to fall, you need the price change in a given month to be lower than the same month a year ago. If prices in November 2023 fall but prices in November 2022 fell by more then the inflation rate goes up even though prices have fallen. This kind of scenario is quite common owing to the seasonality in some price components.
If you or Sunak try and spin that 14% potential drop as a good thing you're in for a rude surprise.
Of course I am only getting his side of the story, but she has quite a reputation for volatile behaviour
She is also seriously well-known in posho/arty circles so I shall say no more
Venables and Thompson too.
"It is not contrary to reason to prefer the destruction of the whole world to the scratching of my finger."
When Rishi Sunak says he aims to halve inflation, British voters think he aims to get... (7 June)
Prices to decrease 47%
Prices to increase more slowly 42%
Don't know 11%
https://twitter.com/RedfieldWilton/status/1667509473953316865
Currently on the live chat to British Gas to close the account at my father's old place, which we've just sold.
Contemplating leaving them for my own energy because their service has, not I think deliberately but due to inept management, been mind-bendingly awful. Even the Ombudsman was pretty sharp with them in ruling against them on every single point.
I've been looking at Octopus. Anyone with them and are they any good?
They have also sublicenced that software to Eon.
The suicides, divorces, family breakdowns etc were used as a weapon - a threat of what would happen if you didn’t pay.
https://youtu.be/3XGAmPRxV48?si=eRZYqH3piXJ8Z88U
Well, of course it's a good thing. Better to sell to the voters than a further rise of 14%.
I have no band width at present in arguing politics, and have long since accepted Starmer will be next PM and the Conservatives need time in opposition
The point is that why fix now if the energy price may fall in the spring
“How long do you want the messages to remain secret?”
“As long as men are capable of evil.”
It is odd because not much has changed physically to London over the last 20 years (with the exception of tall buildings being thrown up) but the sense of place has in many ways changed profoundly so it is impossible to find the place you knew.
This video of London from 1999 (and the comments on it) is interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI04Dd3zzO8&t=2069s
Inconsistent UI experience? Too many design languages? Microsoft said let's introduce a fifth.
Yuck.
Counter clerks in crown offices have to balance at the end of every day, and experienced ones pride themselves on being able to do so every time. But new clerks regularly find they’re out, by small amounts one way or the other, usually due to a mistake made on one transaction, or a repeated mistake made when counting the cash up at the end of the day.
And of course we can’t assume that every subpostmaster was honest just because the PO wrongly accused so very many. Just helping yourself to the PO’s cash was always pretty dumb, and extremely rare. But ‘borrowing’ from the PO’s cash, usually to fund some sort of addiction, intending to pay it back and covering yourself meanwhile by over-declaring the cash, until either things spiral beyond the ability to repay, or a surprise audit team arrives and finds the SPSO significantly short on cash, while uncommon, wasn’t unknown.
The tragedy is that most innocent balancing mistakes tended to rectify themselves the following week, as miscounting one week would normally work itself through the week following. So honest sub-postmasters covered the discrepancy with their own cash, rather than bothering to recount everything again, expecting things to work out down the line. When they didn’t, some found themselves deeper and deeper in trouble, and the fact of covering their own misbalance back at the beginning both weakened their defence against a charge of ‘false accounting’, made it difficult for them to credibly blame Horizon since they hadn’t reported the original discrepancy, and created a sequence of events that, to the barely-trained PO investigators, looked suspiciously like someone trying to cover using the PO’s cash to cover off some other sort of debt.
Every individual case before the inquiry, whilst you can see the procedural weaknesses, it isn’t hard to see how and why things progressed as they did. The question is why no-one up the chain of command proved so unable to join any dots.
An endless theme of mine is that most people are not as stupid as the Tories assume. They will try and claim that more is less, but most people not only will know that more is more, they won't Tory MPs / shills trying to con them by claiming that them paying more taxes / bills is them paying less.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-67771630
That can present a challenge, but in your case it widens the pool so very considerably that I’d suggest it’s worth a shot.
Where “r” is the average radius of the arses in question.
The operating system that had people flashing their phones with customised versions in the hope of getting them to work. A bit.
HTC Titan II, I’m looking at you.
The extraordinary thing is that it doesn't matter what level in the organisation you look at, you find extreme incompetence, ignorance, malice and dishonesty - sometimes bits of each, quite often all mixed in together. You see this in the front line troops employed as 'investigators', their managers, their in-house advisers, and of course, the Board.
The PO also seems to have engaged a hopeless bunch of legal advisers and consultants. No doubt the PO was shopping at the cheap end of the market. If so they got what they paid for.
We are on their Cosy Plus variable tariff (as in varies through the day), which is saving us quite a bit versus the energy cap so far. (You need to have an ASHP and smart meter for Cosy Plus)
If you're definitely thinking of moving to Octopus get a friend who's already with them to send you the Introducer link - you get £50 and they get £50. (If you haven't got someone who can introduce you PM me - I can do it for you!)
Not for any software reason, I was just bloody annoyed with it.
G-LMFAO!
OTOH the Lib Dems will not make a serious effort here. Tactical voting will be the order of the day. If the mood is anything like in Mid Beds then the Cons are headed for a hammering.
All that will be moot if Bone is the Con candidate. That would eliminate any chance of the Cons holding the seat. If one in ten of the electors there believe his denials then I would be amazed. MPs are generally not held in terribly high regard by the Great British public.
https://x.com/shaidavidai/status/1737512500986290596
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/dec/20/british-girl-8-crowned-best-female-player-at-european-chess-tournament