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Two years and counting – politicalbetting.com

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  • Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Taz said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Masterchef

    PFFF!

    They kicked out the Cornish lad!!

    Nooooo

    Mind you, he is just 22. How can you be that good a chef, at 22?? Phenomenal. He will have a fine career

    Amazing he did so well considering his heritage of enslavement.
    I noticed some Moroccan flavors in his recipes so my guess is his forefathers made good their escape from Casablanca
    The two I liked, the French geeky lad with the specs and the Caribbean girl, both got canned when I predicted they'd go all the way along with Ginger guy who they just seem to adore.

    No one, on this show, has ever cooked dog before. Do you reckon they should ?
    It would be hilarious: barbecued dog

    Sadly they won’t because the BBC would lose the licence fee the next day

    Yes the disappearance of French African geeky dude was a surprise. The even bigger surprise for me was when they kicked out the Arabian fusion Bath restaurant woman. One minute she was a genius, next: gone
    Yes, we were shocked at that too as she sailed through her first round. The other three were poor in comparison.

    If not barbecued dog then deep fried Tarantula (apparently it tastes like bacon with a texture of prawn) or Scorpion. When I worked in the rail industry with a supplier in Hong Kong one of the guys I deakt with adored scorpion.

    They are keen on a wide variety of cuisine so why not.

    I hope Kasae wins.
    If Leon was doing his job properly he would have tried both tarantula and scorpion.

    (I don't believe that Cambodians really eat tarantulas, except when starving, and suspect it is a big joke on barangs)
    No, they really eat them

    I saw them widely on sale during the Water Festival ten days ago in Phnom Penh. They love them, they are seen as a a treat
    Being a vegetarian I wouldn't eat this anyway, but if you eat any animal too small to gut you are eating its entire digestive tract including its shit. No thanks.
    It's quite common to eat whole fish (sprats, whitebait) and shellfish. Snails are usually starved for a couple of days before you eat them though, to clear out the shit.

    Snipe and woodcock entrails are also commonly eaten (on toast, or they make a nice gravy) but apparently they always shit before flying so that's OK.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    I live in a seat with an 18,000 Tory majority (old boundaries) and it is quite a long time since I met anyone planning to vote Tory. Funnily enough I used to meet them all the time.
    Well given even on current polls 25-30% are planning to vote Tory and more in a seat like yours, you can't be looking very hard!
  • MightyAlexMightyAlex Posts: 1,660
    edited December 2023
    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    I wouldn't let him get to you. Leon's a tongue in cheek fascist. Its just, his tongue will still be there when he's marching down Camden Road.
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023
    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



  • MJWMJW Posts: 1,728
    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    I live in a seat with an 18,000 Tory majority (old boundaries) and it is quite a long time since I met anyone planning to vote Tory. Funnily enough I used to meet them all the time.
    Well given even on current polls 25-30% are planning to vote Tory and more in a seat like yours, you can't be looking very hard!

    Even those telling posters they're still voting Tory are far too embarrassed to admit it in public.
  • kle4 said:

    Has Michael Crick been living in a cave or something? How can an experienced journalist not only not know this was already the case, but find it 'bizarre'?

    It was quite a bizarre apology, & I suspect the BBC will have to apologise for its apology. If we now include Jewish people among ethnic minorities then we are going to have to revise all our stats about ethnic minorities - in BBC staff, universities, & my own @tomorrowsMPs etc
    https://nitter.net/MichaelLCrick/status/1732687339544031312#m

    Actually this is quite controversial and caused a fuss in the last census: is Judaism an ethnicity or a religion?
    As far as I know it is classed as a religion not an ethnicity. When you fill in those forms that monitor ethnicity I don't think I have ever seen a White-Jewish category, just white-British, White-Irish, White-Traveller and White-Other as far as I can recall. Perhaps that's a mistake, I don't know, but certainly it seems the norm at the moment is to treat it as a religion and not an ethnicity.
    It raises some interesting questions. Eg Judaism passes through the mother IIRC so someone with a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish white father might consider themselves Jewish, but shouldn't they be classed as mixed: White Jewish and White Other, if Jewish is an ethnicity? Like my kids are mixed-white and Asian? And what about converts? You can't convert to be Black (people who have have got in a whole load of trouble). So if being Jewish is an ethnicity does a convert change their ethnicity? Or only their religion?
    Surely being Jewish is both an ethnicity and a religion, with a big but not 100% overlap
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Incidentally, to harp on about OFSTED I do wonder what will happen to Alan Derry and Chris Russell.

    Difficult to imagine either will be able to remain in role if the organisation is to have a shred of credibility (well, not that it does now but if it is to try and regain it). And even harder to see who will want to give them a job in education after this.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
  • isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    Might have something to do with something which happened in 2016 and someone who became PM in 2019.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
  • MonksfieldMonksfield Posts: 2,806
    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    Amen to that.
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    Political careers.

    Unfortunately it applies to all parties.
  • HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    I live in a seat with an 18,000 Tory majority (old boundaries) and it is quite a long time since I met anyone planning to vote Tory. Funnily enough I used to meet them all the time.
    Well given even on current polls 25-30% are planning to vote Tory and more in a seat like yours, you can't be looking very hard!
    Maybe they are just not publicising the fact they intend to vote Tory. I'd keep quiet about it if I was.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Sir Jacob still has a net worth of £150 million with his wife and is one of the wealthiest members of Parliament, so I am sure he will survive
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    algarkirk said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    I live in a seat with an 18,000 Tory majority (old boundaries) and it is quite a long time since I met anyone planning to vote Tory. Funnily enough I used to meet them all the time.
    Well given even on current polls 25-30% are planning to vote Tory and more in a seat like yours, you can't be looking very hard!
    Maybe they are just not publicising the fact they intend to vote Tory. I'd keep quiet about it if I was.
    I suspect Labour voters were also relatively quiet in the Brown years
  • OmniumOmnium Posts: 10,758
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    Poltroon!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    Thoughts on Poland? In or out?
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war
    Question: Scottish Declaration of Independence, and Russian invasion of Latvia. Where do you send the tanks first?
  • isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They've got some overexcited teenager on twitter duty this week.

    Sort of like our Saturday morning chums, only without the talent.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    kle4 said:

    Has Michael Crick been living in a cave or something? How can an experienced journalist not only not know this was already the case, but find it 'bizarre'?

    It was quite a bizarre apology, & I suspect the BBC will have to apologise for its apology. If we now include Jewish people among ethnic minorities then we are going to have to revise all our stats about ethnic minorities - in BBC staff, universities, & my own @tomorrowsMPs etc
    https://nitter.net/MichaelLCrick/status/1732687339544031312#m

    Actually this is quite controversial and caused a fuss in the last census: is Judaism an ethnicity or a religion?
    As far as I know it is classed as a religion not an ethnicity. When you fill in those forms that monitor ethnicity I don't think I have ever seen a White-Jewish category, just white-British, White-Irish, White-Traveller and White-Other as far as I can recall. Perhaps that's a mistake, I don't know, but certainly it seems the norm at the moment is to treat it as a religion and not an ethnicity.
    It raises some interesting questions. Eg Judaism passes through the mother IIRC so someone with a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish white father might consider themselves Jewish, but shouldn't they be classed as mixed: White Jewish and White Other, if Jewish is an ethnicity? Like my kids are mixed-white and Asian? And what about converts? You can't convert to be Black (people who have have got in a whole load of trouble). So if being Jewish is an ethnicity does a convert change their ethnicity? Or only their religion?
    Ethnicity monitoring forms tend to use the census questions, which indeed do not have an ethnicity category for Jewish. However, ethnicity monitoring forms don't have to use the census questions. Different people may choose to categorise ethnicity in different ways.

    Judaism is generally considered an ethno-religious group, like Druze, Sikhs, Yazidis, Mandaeans, Amish, Marionites, Lipovans etc. Both ethnicity and religion are pretty woollily defined things, so there aren't any right/wrong answers.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    On topic, the Conservative problem is that they have comprehensively burst through the Trust Thermocline;

    https://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/sarahlethbridgelean/trust-thermoclines/

    That point in a relationship where the other person feels so let down/angry/betrayed that there's not really any point saying/doing anything, because it won't be heard. The main cure is years in the doghouse.

    It happened to Major's Conservatives after September 1992. It's probably what happend between Labour and the red wall switchers.

    The current crop of the Conservatives managed the genius move of doing it twice. A lot of voters were repulsed by Boris's antics, then the Trusstershambles turned off a load more.

    Even if Sunak were a political and governmental genius, it probably wouldn't help much. But he is neither, so it's all moot.

    That's a very interesting link, thanks.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, to harp on about OFSTED I do wonder what will happen to Alan Derry and Chris Russell.

    Difficult to imagine either will be able to remain in role if the organisation is to have a shred of credibility (well, not that it does now but if it is to try and regain it). And even harder to see who will want to give them a job in education after this.

    Chris Russell is retiring on 31 December this year.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
  • ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    Have you actually heard of the concept of "self-determination" ? ;)
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    Incidentally, to harp on about OFSTED I do wonder what will happen to Alan Derry and Chris Russell.

    Difficult to imagine either will be able to remain in role if the organisation is to have a shred of credibility (well, not that it does now but if it is to try and regain it). And even harder to see who will want to give them a job in education after this.

    Chris Russell is retiring on 31 December this year.
    Well, that simplifies one. Spielman of course goes at the same time.
  • Northern_AlNorthern_Al Posts: 8,375
    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Sir Jacob still has a net worth of £150 million with his wife and is one of the wealthiest members of Parliament, so I am sure he will survive
    It's such a relief to know that he won't have to make Nanny redundant.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    This lot are quite capable of trying to do all three at once and failing spectacularly in all of them.

    Incidentally English is now a shortage subject due to a collapse in the numbers taking it at A-level and degree level. And why's that? Oh yes, the new GCSE is putting children off it.


    Grrrrr.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    kle4 said:

    Has Michael Crick been living in a cave or something? How can an experienced journalist not only not know this was already the case, but find it 'bizarre'?

    It was quite a bizarre apology, & I suspect the BBC will have to apologise for its apology. If we now include Jewish people among ethnic minorities then we are going to have to revise all our stats about ethnic minorities - in BBC staff, universities, & my own @tomorrowsMPs etc
    https://nitter.net/MichaelLCrick/status/1732687339544031312#m

    Actually this is quite controversial and caused a fuss in the last census: is Judaism an ethnicity or a religion?
    As far as I know it is classed as a religion not an ethnicity. When you fill in those forms that monitor ethnicity I don't think I have ever seen a White-Jewish category, just white-British, White-Irish, White-Traveller and White-Other as far as I can recall. Perhaps that's a mistake, I don't know, but certainly it seems the norm at the moment is to treat it as a religion and not an ethnicity.
    It raises some interesting questions. Eg Judaism passes through the mother IIRC so someone with a Jewish mother and a non-Jewish white father might consider themselves Jewish, but shouldn't they be classed as mixed: White Jewish and White Other, if Jewish is an ethnicity? Like my kids are mixed-white and Asian? And what about converts? You can't convert to be Black (people who have have got in a whole load of trouble). So if being Jewish is an ethnicity does a convert change their ethnicity? Or only their religion?
    Ethnicity monitoring forms tend to use the census questions, which indeed do not have an ethnicity category for Jewish. However, ethnicity monitoring forms don't have to use the census questions. Different people may choose to categorise ethnicity in different ways.

    Judaism is generally considered an ethno-religious group, like Druze, Sikhs, Yazidis, Mandaeans, Amish, Marionites, Lipovans etc. Both ethnicity and religion are pretty woollily defined things, so there aren't any right/wrong answers.
    That list, with one fairly glaring exception, shows how being an ethnoreligious group makes you particularly vulnerable to persecution.

    Surrounding groups have two reasons to see them as different or suspicious, religion and culture/ethnicity, and by their nature they tend to be introspective self-contained societies, which also makes them an easy out-group.

    The one glaring exception being the Sikhs, I think probably because they’ve fought back hard in the past, and have their own defined homeland.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    HYUFD said:

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Sir Jacob still has a net worth of £150 million with his wife and is one of the wealthiest members of Parliament, so I am sure he will survive
    It's such a relief to know that he won't have to make Nanny redundant.
    That would leave him in a state.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are a weird freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    OK, what has Bangkok supplied you with this time?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war
    Question: Scottish Declaration of Independence, and Russian invasion of Latvia. Where do you send the tanks first?
    The former if an armed revolt as the latter we will do as part of a NATO coalition, whereas we have to maintain order in the former ourselves
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    Have you actually heard of the concept of "self-determination" ? ;)
    Maybe this would be useful reading... for Putin too! https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    edited December 2023
    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    I know you are just trolling, but that is pretty embarrassing even so. Go back to your ladyboys.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    Have you actually heard of the concept of "self-determination" ? ;)
    Maybe this would be useful reading... for Putin too! https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/self-det/
    It might even have been useful for Lenin, or at least, stopped him invading Ukraine and Georgia.
  • isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They assume their remaining voters are ignorant morons and they are tret accordingly. The horror for the Tories is that the moron vote has scabbed off to ReFUK and the rest aren't actually morons.
  • TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Not to mention my own chances in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East. I have some bar chart ideas brewing...
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    No, because once you allow Putin to take one or two NATO states without military retaliation swiftly he will try and seize the lot.

    Of course as soon as Hitler took Poland that started WW2 (not that I think Putin is mad enough to go beyond Ukraine into NATO states even if he captured Kyiv)
  • IanB2IanB2 Posts: 49,859
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    So you've reverted to where you started out, as Putin's little helper.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790
    Roger said:

    DavidL said:

    148grss said:

    See where that trend gets us by the next GE:

    image

    What are the lines of best fit for the other parties?
    Extrapolation has its limits, as extending a few more years would see the Tories in negative territory - votes only from Zombie Undead.

    That is no way to refer to the pensioner vote. Show a little more respect for your compatriots.

    I notice that your hagiographic post on the previous thread has now got 9 'likes'! Either I don't know what I'm talking about or 9 posters are trying to give me that message (or maybe it's just the Tory posters last hurrah)
    As I recall it, David's post was, and I paraphrase, saying 'people who are saying absolutely everything is terrible are over-egging it'. That's not a hagiography. Apart from by the very special standards of the sort of people who, for example, considered anything less than screaming hatred of Boris all the time to be being a Boris fanboi.

    Allow some nuance, Roger!
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

  • This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?
  • I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    So you've reverted to where you started out, as Putin's little helper.
    Have you even lived in Riga, or Wroclaw? I doubt it

    I spent many months shuttling between the two trading the hopping chickens. You know nothing but dog love
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Because after Putin had utilised whatever ummm, supplies Leon had, he would lose interest in world conquest?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Not to mention my own chances in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East. I have some bar chart ideas brewing...
    Calling @Sunil_Prasannan ...
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    Mine persse, pätt
  • Strategically I do actually wonder if Sunak’s best bet is to call a Stop The Boats election now.

    The alternative simply seems to be to run the clock down while being utterly dysfunctional and lurching from crisis to crisis.

    Of course, it being Sunak, he will go for the strategically poorest choice, so he’ll keep on struggling to get his policy through, unsuccessfully, and get no credit whatsoever.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    IanB2 said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    So you've reverted to where you started out, as Putin's little helper.


    …Not to take Leon seriously when he’s drunk.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
  • CiceroCicero Posts: 3,078
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    Keep doing that and you will be back in hospital again... So little wit, so much massive tosser.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Cicero said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    Keep doing that and you will be back in hospital again... So little wit, so much massive tosser.
    lol. Are you actually making a threat to hospitalise me?
  • stodgestodge Posts: 13,873
    Evening all :)

    There has been a slight improvement in Conservative polling misfortunes this week though it's more a case of Labour losing ground and slipping back to the low 40s. The LLG vs Con/Ref numbers on Savanta this week are 57-35 from 60-33 last week.

    My theory - for what little it's worth - falling fuel prices. We've commented on here about Conservative prospects tracking petrol prices and with prices falling perhaps some are thinking the worst is over in terms of the cost of living crisis.

    All of this of course before last night's nonsense which may or may not have much impact. I was thinking we might see a 30% Conservative VI on More In Common next week, which would be the first since (oddly enough) More In Common in mid October.

    We need to see if Techne, YouGov and Ipsos-MORI all continue to show a small Conservative recovery and Labour trending back towards 40%.
  • This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?

    They've put the bar at a point that excludes Oxbridge Research Fellows, which shows how insane it is.

    But it will be a nation fit for be global bankers, even quite junior ones, and that's the main thing.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    By that argument we should slso let Putin have most of the North of England, Slough and Luton as well.

    We can't condemn places to tyranny just because they're not Primrose Hill, tempting though it sometimes is.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?

    They've put the bar at a point that excludes Oxbridge Research Fellows, which shows how insane it is.

    But it will be a nation fit for be global bankers, even quite junior ones, and that's the main thing.
    Professor salaries at Oxford University can range from £67,959 - £242,511 per year, so they will easily make the grade to keep their UK visas
    https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Oxford-University-Professor-Salaries-E12941_D_KO18,27.htm#:~:text=How much does a Professor,67,959 - £242,511 per year.
  • CookieCookie Posts: 13,790

    isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They assume their remaining voters are ignorant morons and they are tret accordingly. The horror for the Tories is that the moron vote has scabbed off to ReFUK and the rest aren't actually morons.
    And it's the wrong battle for the image, surely? The caption should be 'This is what the BBC think of your request not to ramp up the license fee'.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:

    This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?

    They've put the bar at a point that excludes Oxbridge Research Fellows, which shows how insane it is.

    But it will be a nation fit for be global bankers, even quite junior ones, and that's the main thing.
    Professor salaries at Oxford University can range from £67,959 - £242,511 per year, so they will easily make the grade to keep their UK visas
    https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Oxford-University-Professor-Salaries-E12941_D_KO18,27.htm#:~:text=How much does a Professor,67,959 - £242,511 per year.
    You do know that Research Fellows are not the same as Professors, don't you?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited December 2023

    isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They've got some overexcited teenager on twitter duty this week.

    Sort of like our Saturday morning chums, only without the talent.
    This is fine for fringe parties who need the publicity/clicks - had Farage’s UKIP done it in 2015 it would have been a bit much but forgivable, but not the Conservatives. I’d imagine lifelong members of the party who haven’t left will be soon

    Surely this is the kind of thing that you’d get someone sympathetic to your cause but not actually attached to it to post, get the message across with none of the comeback. Say ‘not how I’d have put it but I see how they’re feeling’
  • Thanks @MattW for the knife link on the last thread

    But I want to know about the brilliant, expensive, sharpenable knives that people were talking about here

    I want to get my Italian brother a really good knife

    For cooking, not revenge
  • Here is the thing.

    Cons had a lead in at least one opinion poll in each of the last 12 months running into the 2015 GE and had at least one in 15 of the last 17 months running into the 1992 GE.

    Lab's last lead over 15% was 17 months out from 1992 and was 25 months out from 2015. Lab had only two leads over 10% in the 12 months running into both 1992 and 2015.

    Polls can be wrong but they are no more wrong now than they were then. The Cons are clearly in a much worse position. It is not quite 1997 but it need not be. Anything close to 1997 and over half the Con MPs lose their seats.

    The Con reaction. They swerve from 'flagship policy' to 'flagship policy', from theme to theme, from strategy to strategy. This does not make them look innovative and full of new ideas. It makes them look indecisive and weak.

    The folk at No 10 are way off being able to rescue this. They are out-of-touch to cringeworthy degrees. To me only a 2010 style event could do that. In other words a third party surging forward and muddying the waters. It seems odd to say it but maybe the Cons last hope is Reform UK?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They assume their remaining voters are ignorant morons and they are tret accordingly. The horror for the Tories is that the moron vote has scabbed off to ReFUK and the rest aren't actually morons.
    And it's the wrong battle for the image, surely? The caption should be 'This is what the BBC think of your request not to ramp up the license fee'.
    They also should have put the BBC News logo on the image, otherwise unless you read the caption it looks like the gesture is on behalf of the Conservatives.
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    Fishing said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are an eerie, freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    By that argument we should slso let Putin have most of the North of England, Slough and Luton as well.

    We can't condemn places to tyranny just because they're not Primrose Hill, tempting though it sometimes is.
    This is the correct response to Leon’s trolling.

    Well done, have a biscuit.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    edited December 2023
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,647
  • maxhmaxh Posts: 1,224
    OT (and long): Homer-Dixon is one of the most original thinkers out there imo. This is worth reading.

    https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/23920997/polycrisis-climate-pandemic-population-connectivity

    TL;DR: we’re more stuffed than we think we are because of the global homogeneity we have created within different but interconnected systems. As climate change bites (probably harder than we think) crises will spread more quickly than ever before unless we diversify to combat that homogeneity.

    And because almost no one is talking (or even thinking) about stuff like this, we really are fucked.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984

    Cookie said:

    isam said:

    Really what has happened to the Conservatives? They’ve gone completely mad. The list of ‘can you imagine what xxxxx would think?’ is infinite



    They assume their remaining voters are ignorant morons and they are tret accordingly. The horror for the Tories is that the moron vote has scabbed off to ReFUK and the rest aren't actually morons.
    And it's the wrong battle for the image, surely? The caption should be 'This is what the BBC think of your request not to ramp up the license fee'.
    They also should have put the BBC News logo on the image, otherwise unless you read the caption it looks like the gesture is on behalf of the Conservatives.
    Particularly as she’s wearing blue.
  • This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?

    They've put the bar at a point that excludes Oxbridge Research Fellows, which shows how insane it is.

    But it will be a nation fit for be global bankers, even quite junior ones, and that's the main thing.
    The bigger issue is going to be what they do with care, which is going to deteriorate, from the already stressed position, very quickly.

    10% Minimum wage increase without corresponding budget increase
    Impact of minimum wage on differentials - why work in the care sector for MW or just above when you could be in a supermarket instead?
    Massive drop in overseas recruitment
    Ever growing number of people needing care
    Side effects from NHS also struggling

    Of course the answer is stick their head in the sands for a year and it will be someone elses problem.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    ydoethur said:

    Leon said:

    HYUFD said:

    Leon said:

    Cicero said:

    The contemptible Putin fanboy drivel on display here this evening needs a heavy corrective.

    If you want to compare Ukraine to another Western European country, it could be Ireland, and for at least four centuries there has been a different political sense in Ukraine, whether Cossack or Ukrainian, than that of Russia, That many Ukrainians speak Russian does not make them Russian, any more than English speakers in Ireland, or Australia or wherever, are English.

    The problem is that Russia does not have an analogue. It is an Imperium, not a nation. It refuses to accept that its economic and political system, of theft and corruption, is profoundly unattractive and it demands recognition for a cultural superiority it does not possess. Indeed, as the demonisation of minorities, Gays in Russia, Jews in NSDAP Germany, shows, the parallels with fascism are now uncomfortably exact.

    Putin will attack the West, How do we know? Because he has been doing it for more than 20 years.

    A campaign of bribery, propaganda, subversion, cyberattacks and the whole panoply of Hybrid war have been focussed on the political systems of the democratic world and beyond. From the Gilets Jeunes to the Bad Boys of Brexit, there has been covert Russian activity for many years. So Ukraine is no "more a far away country of which we know nothing" than Poland or Czechoslovakia were.

    The fact that the subversion of Russia has now successfully delayed further assistance to Ukraine should not discourage us, it should galvanise those who care about democratic freedom at home as well as abroad, to redouble our efforts.

    Estonians need no reminder. At the border crossing between Estonia and Russia, the Putinists have put up a poster- "Russian borders have no limits". Both here and in Poland, we are preparing for war,

    We have an opportunity to put Putin in his box now. If we do not, the survivors will ask why we did not destroy Russian neo-fascism while we had the chance and before millions died in the destruction of Western cities after a botched, but still partly successful Russian nuclear strike.

    Cowardice does not make you stronger or safer. We need to accept that and when idiotic fools proclaim "Putin is right" we put them in the same box as all the other enemies of democracy, freedom and justice.

    No one wants nuclear war, not even Putin

    A fair exchange would be handing back the Baltic states and eastern Ukraine to Moscow, they were unjustly taken and they can’t be easily defended. It’s a sad fact, but a fact. Then we must fortify the remaining, defensible frontier of NATO against Muscovy
    The Baltic states are part of NATO, if Putin tries to take those we are at war.

    The UK and France alone have bigger economies than Russia, let alone the entirety of NATO.

    If we actually spent the same percentage on defence as Putin does of Russia's gdp we could easily contain him
    Look at the map. The Baltics are a weird freakish appendage. A kind of NATO panhandle - it’s better to accept reality and give them back to Putin, I suspect most Estonians would be fine with this, it’s just a tiny but vocal minority that we hear in the West

    Eastern Poland is trickier. Up to the Poles, lots of it is just cottages and sheds, and weird hopping chickens - I’ve been there and talked with the locals. It’s no great loss if Vlad insists

    Prague is worth saving
    OK, what has Bangkok supplied you with this time?
    Methinks it’s Thai marching powder washed down with Buckfast.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Not to mention my own chances in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East. I have some bar chart ideas brewing...
    @RochdalePioneers winning here!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
    It's on the North Circular Road, not far from Chiswick.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    And pre 1997 the Tories held most seats if not control in most Surrey councils. Devon has never been true blue Tory in the way Surrey has, even in the 19th century the Liberals won seats in Devon on a nonconfomist ticket and pre LDs North Devon was Jeremy Thorpe's seat as Liberal leader for many years. In 1997 the LDs won lots of seats in Devon but every Surrey seat stayed Tory blue despite Major's landslide defeat nationally (even in 2001 only Guildford went LD and went blue again in 2005).

    The shock would be if the LDs won more MPs in Surrey than Devon, not the reverse and Brexit certainly makes it possible.

    Even on a larger than national swing in the West you would expect the Tories to hold most seats there as their majorities are so big in most seats there now
  • Eabhal said:
    Not surprising when Tory politicians have been openly supporting criminal behaviour around this issue.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
  • FairlieredFairliered Posts: 4,931
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    The Yellow Wall!
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,631
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    That's the approach being used in the NHS. Really.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,373
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    They've already abolished that. It just hasn't helped much.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    ydoethur said:

    HYUFD said:

    This new salary bar for migrants

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/dec/07/everything-is-in-jeopardy-how-new-uk-visa-rules-are-tearing-families-apart

    Dipshits are going to create a brain drain aren't they?

    They've put the bar at a point that excludes Oxbridge Research Fellows, which shows how insane it is.

    But it will be a nation fit for be global bankers, even quite junior ones, and that's the main thing.
    Professor salaries at Oxford University can range from £67,959 - £242,511 per year, so they will easily make the grade to keep their UK visas
    https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Salary/Oxford-University-Professor-Salaries-E12941_D_KO18,27.htm#:~:text=How much does a Professor,67,959 - £242,511 per year.
    You do know that Research Fellows are not the same as Professors, don't you?
    Yes, they are less senior researchers than Professors.

    Top academics, foreign or not will still be able to stay here.

    Middle income and low income migrants who don't meet the salary threshold however will not be able to come here now unless in a shortage area like social care. Which is exactly what middle income and low income Brexit voters voted for when they won the referendum to reduce pressure on their wages and housing.

    Plenty of room for more British Research Fellows now too to get those posts without the competition of Fellows imported from abroad
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited December 2023
    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    Option 5: Trash the economy and increase unemployment, teacher training colleges always see a surge in applications in a recession, as they did post 2008.

    In a booming economy a teacher's pay looks less enticing than a high paid job in the City or private sector company for a graduate, in a recession however a teacher's pay is a secure regular wage
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    The Yellow Wall!
    No, That is Richmond Park, Kingston Upon Thames, Twickenham, Bath and West Oxford now
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    Foxy said:

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
    It's on the North Circular Road, not far from Chiswick.
    Soon they can apply for asylum and upgrade to Rwanda.
  • TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    I suspect you are right. Quite a lot of the movement Tory to LD in the SE happened in 2017/19. Many people there never wanted Brexit and were annoyed. Not to say LDs won't flip seats where they came quite close in 2019 - they are almost certain to if Tory vote is at 30%-ish.

    But SW was Brexit-y and "Bollocks to Brexit" was a disaster for LDs in 2019. However, now that it's happened, people are absolutely furious - none of the promised gains have happened, and they aren't even a northern area that has been wooed. In short, they've been royally f***ed over.

    Not actually sure LDs will gain that many as they start from so far back. But the swings will be HUGE.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
    West London, it's on the edge of Gunnerbsury Park by Ealing, IIRC.
  • algarkirkalgarkirk Posts: 12,496
    "Prince Harry wants his children to "feel at home" in the UK"
    (BBC on High Court case.)

    When you are a prince of the blood royal, and 5th in line to the throne there is a fairly obvious path to this ambition.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,141
    Foxy said:

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    That's the approach being used in the NHS. Really.
    Given how good YouTube and ChatGPT are these days, do people really need qualifications to become doctors?
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    Eabhal said:
    Not surprising when Tory politicians have been openly supporting criminal behaviour around this issue.
    I think you'll find it's "freedom fighter behaviour" rather than "criminal".
  • rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    Let AI replace many middle class occupations thereby creating a surplus of graduates to retrain as teachers.

    Alternatively replace teachers with AI as seen in many sic-fi shows.
  • algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
    It's on the North Circular Road, not far from Chiswick.
    Soon they can apply for asylum and upgrade to Rwanda.
    I hear Gaza's nice this time of year...
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    The Yellow Wall!
    No, That is Richmond Park, Kingston Upon Thames, Twickenham, Bath and West Oxford now
    Two of which do actually have yellow walls as they’re build from oolitic limestone.

    The political map of Macron support in France is an interesting analogue for areas of Lib Dem strength. Large swathes of rural Western France in areas that never industrialised. Plus the posher riverine suburbs of Paris and the limestone ridges of Eastern France (which tend to be the viticultural areas).

    Vineyards are also an interesting divining rod for Lib Dem strength. The only areas they do well in councils in Kent for example are in the Eastern downs near Canterbury, and the high Weald around and South of Tunbridge Wells. Both clusters of vineyards. And in Essex they run Chelmsford which is the viticulture capital of the Crouch Valley.
  • ydoethur said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Not to mention my own chances in Aberdeenshire North and Moray East. I have some bar chart ideas brewing...
    Calling @Sunil_Prasannan ...
    Pie charts as well now! (waves to @BlancheLivermore )
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,779

    rcs1000 said:

    ydoethur said:

    kle4 said:

    Well, I know what story ydoethur must be reading (if he has not already posted on it)

    Ruth Perry: Ofsted inspection 'contributed' to head teacher's death
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67639942

    Jacob Rees-Mogg’s money management firm to shut down after losing biggest client
    Blow for Tory MP as Somerset Capital Management closes after 16 years

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/12/07/jacob-rees-moggs-somerset-capital-management-to-shut-down/ (£££)

    Thoughts and prayers.

    Is there any profession more maligned than investment management?
    It's a shame because it is a great industry to work in - the work is fascinating and varied, it is highly meritocratic and a lot more diverse than law or journalism, and it pays well.
    Don't be silly, the pay's shit, which is why the recruitment targets are being miss...oh, sorry, did you mean investment fund management?
    Talking of which...

    Breaking🚨
    The government has recruited just HALF of the secondary teacher trainees it needed this year according to Department for Education data

    This is even worse than last year when 57% of the target needed were recruited


    https://twitter.com/matilda__martin/status/1732697308322504881

    So the options are:

    A Improve pay and conditions
    B Import immigrants to do the job
    C Run out of teachers

    Choose at least one.
    Option 4: reduce the qualifications and training necessary to be a teacher.
    Let AI replace many middle class occupations thereby creating a surplus of graduates to retrain as teachers.

    Alternatively replace teachers with AI as seen in many sic-fi shows.
    I think the latter is a given. The rich will, as always, be able to avail themselves of a shortcut to better things as deemed appropriate.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    TimS said:

    HYUFD said:

    rcs1000 said:

    from a few weeks back but still apropos

    Seattle Times ($) - ‘Escape liberal hell’: Republicans really are fleeing WA

    Danny Westneat - At first, the ads seemed like a pandemic-era curiosity, a niche political pitch playing on the red state, blue state divide.

    “Escape liberal hell,” counseled one sales video from a Boise, Idaho, real estate agent. “Here are seven reasons conservatives flock to Idaho.” . . .

    The idea that people would pick up and move solely for politics has seemed like a stretch. Moving for a job, schools, space, a rural lifestyle, yes. People relocate for all sorts of reasons — nearly 250,000 moved here from another U.S. state last year, with 258,000 going the other way, the Census Bureau says.

    But now, there’s solid evidence that some people really are migrating over partisanship.

    This past week, Idaho released a database of voters who have moved into that state, along with where they came from and what political party they signed up for when they got there. . . .

    The political makeup of who has moved to Idaho is eye-opening. It is, as the Idaho Capital Sun news site called it, a “Republican fever dream.”

    Of about 119,000 voters who relocated to Idaho in recent years, 65% signed up as Republican. That’s significantly higher than the partisan makeup of the state already, which is 58% GOP.

    Only 12% of the newcomers registered as Democrats. About 21% picked “unaffiliated” and 2% chose a third party such as Libertarian.

    The data explodes the myth that liberals, untethered due to remote work, might be moving to Idaho or other red states from San Francisco and Seattle and potentially turning the interior more purple. The exact opposite is happening — people are segregating into like-minded, polarized, geographical camps.

    Sixty-two percent of Washingtonians who moved to Idaho registered as Republicans, the data shows. Only 12% were Democrats. Ours is a 60-40 blue state, roughly, so this means Republicans are preferentially sorting themselves out of Washington state at high rates. . . .

    From Seattle, the data shows 34% who relocated to Idaho were GOPers. (Seattle tends to vote only about 10% Republican.) . . . .

    It is a fever dream for Idaho Republicans to turn that state into a fortress against liberalism — an American redoubt, some of them call it.

    But red migration like this to the interior is a nightmare for the Washington state GOP. Its own customers are fleeing.

    You can now even choose your real estate agent by their politics. The company GOP Agent “is here to help you connect with a Real Estate Agent who shares your Republican ideals and values,” their website says.

    “One of our realtors held an info session in Seattle (about moving to a red State), and had over 150 attendees,” according to the Conservative Move Facebook page. “The interest in moving to red states is not slowing down.”

    I hope they warned them that Idaho has a state income tax. [Washington State does NOT.] Could be a sticker shock upon arrival.

    There was an excellent Vox video a couple of years ago about how - in America - people are increasingly ghettoized. Democrats only know Democrats. Republicans only know Republicans.

    And this is incredibly unhealthy. And, candidly, toxic for democracy. We need to know and understand why people have different views to us.
    Even here inner cities are increasingly left liberal and rural areas conservative.

    Suburbs and commuter towns do still have more of a mix of political views and thus determine elections too
    The “rural areas conservative” rule which by and large applies in most of the country will be tested in the next election in a few areas, notably the Lib Dem targets in the SW.
    Even there there are fewer LD rural target seats than in the 1990s.

    Of the top 50 LD target seats most are in the Home counties or southern Remain seats.

    Just 12 of the top 50 LD target seats are in the SW now (and that includes wealthy spa town Cheltenham)
    https://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/liberal-democrat
    This reflects Lib Dem blue wall thinking, which I think is potentially misplaced - overestimating their chances in the stockbroker belt and underestimating their chances in deep rural parts of the West. Certainly local election results (and a couple of by-elections) seem to bear this out.
    Even in the local elections in May the Tories held councils in pro Brexit SW areas like Torbay the LDs won in 1997 while the LDs took control of lots of councils in Remain stockbroker belt Surrey and Oxfordshire where the Tories held seats in 1997.

    And of course even in the by elections the LDs won a bigger majority in stockbroker belt Chesham and Amersham than say rural SW Tiverton and Honiton
    I don’t expect them to return to 1997 levels but the point is this is a region the Tories have pretty much taken as read for nearly a decade now. Everyone knows about the trends in the blue wall but they’ve largely forgotten the blue hedgerow. Any gains there would have much greater shock factor than gains in Surrey.

    Tiverton and Honiton and North Shropshire saw huge swings - 34 and 29%. I think the West will be an interesting region to watch,

    In by elections on protest vote, in the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey.

    On national swing indeed only 2 of the top 50 LD target seats are in Devon compared to 6 of the top 50 in Surrey. And no, Tory losses in Surrey would be far more of a shock than in Devon which has elected Liberal MPs on a regular basis as far back as Thorpe and beyond. True Blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent in the Australian elections last year
    You’re arguing against yourself there. “In the local elections the LDs won no more councils in Devon than they did in Surrey”: put another way, the LDs won as many councils in forgotten, recently written off Devon as in blue wall heartland where Tory MPs are quaking in their boots Surrey.

    “True blue Surrey would be demographically similar to the wealthy Teal seats traditionally Liberal which went Teal Independent”: exactly, everyone has their eyes pinned on the blue wall. They saw what happened in Australia, and in the period after Brexit vote. They expect - rightly or wrongly - big LD advances there. They are ignoring the old Liberal heartland, and wider Wessex and Marches.

    I expect a larger than national swing in the West, partly because it swung so far against the Lib Dems in 2015 and 2017.
    The Yellow Wall!
    No, That is Richmond Park, Kingston Upon Thames, Twickenham, Bath and West Oxford now
    Two of which do actually have yellow walls as they’re build from oolitic limestone.

    The political map of Macron support in France is an interesting analogue for areas of Lib Dem strength. Large swathes of rural Western France in areas that never industrialised. Plus the posher riverine suburbs of Paris and the limestone ridges of Eastern France (which tend to be the viticultural areas).

    Vineyards are also an interesting divining rod for Lib Dem strength. The only areas they do well in councils in Kent for example are in the Eastern downs near Canterbury, and the high Weald around and South of Tunbridge Wells. Both clusters of vineyards. And in Essex they run Chelmsford which is the viticulture capital of the Crouch Valley.
    And Spa Towns from Bath to Tunbridge Wells, Cheltenham to Harrogate
  • algarkirk said:

    Foxy said:

    I think we should offer up Leon's flat in Camden as the first place to be annexed by Putin.

    Isn't the North Korean Embassy a little detached house somewhere in North London? In which case, a reduced Russia might want to use Leon's gaff for its embassy.

    Although he'd have to fight Corbyn for the honour... ;)
    It's on the North Circular Road, not far from Chiswick.
    Soon they can apply for asylum and upgrade to Rwanda.
    I hear Gaza's nice this time of year...
    Won't he be pissed this close to Christmas?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    algarkirk said:

    "Prince Harry wants his children to "feel at home" in the UK"
    (BBC on High Court case.)

    When you are a prince of the blood royal, and 5th in line to the throne there is a fairly obvious path to this ambition.

    The idea Meghan is going to trade sunny California for the UK, especially in winter, is laughable.

    She got what she wanted from marrying Harry, a move from C list to A list and income to match and he then had to follow her home
This discussion has been closed.