A land of many (black) waters – politicalbetting.com

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A land of many (black) waters – politicalbetting.com

Picture: Thatched roofed houses in Guyana, credit Wikimedia Commons

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TheScreamingEagles

Informative piece.

MattW

2nd.

TheScreamingEagles

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

Andy_JS

Thanks for the article JJ.

NickPalmer

Very interesting, thanks JJ - I've read a few references to this but no clear overview up to now. Threatening reimposition of sanctions seems a reasonable course of action for Biden.

Malmesbury

In the interests of Peace, I demand the the Guyanians should surrender immediately.

Their existence is neo-colonialist imperialism anyway. After they have been driven from the land by the vastly superior Venezuelan forces, there is no prospect of their return. So the future facts on the ground demand their immediate capitulation.

DecrepiterJohnL

Malmesbury said:

In the interests of Peace, I demand the the Guyanians should surrender immediately.

Their existence is neo-colonialist imperialism anyway. After they have been driven from the land by the vastly superior Venezuelan forces, there is no prospect of their return. So the future facts on the ground demand their immediate capitulation.

You miss the point that facts on the ground have already changed and vast numbers of Venezuelans have fled into Guyana, so that in any future Russian-style referendum, they might well vote for Venezuela to annexe their new homeland.

HYUFD

If anyone leads intervention in the region after a Venezuelan invasion of Guyana it would be Brazil.

I doubt most US voters care what happens there

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Carnyx

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

MattW

Thanks for the piece, JayJay.

Perhaps any sabre rattling in Venezuela probably tells us far more about contemporary Venezuela than it does Guyana?

I note that Wiki seems to think the Guyana GDP is $20k/head not $10k/head. That is the 4th higherst in South America.

IIRC Guyana was the pioneer place where a decade ago a significant international endowment fund was setup to help preserve he rainforest. Have you run into any indication of how well that has worked, and how rainforest preservation might work with new oil wealth?

Sunil_Prasannan

bigjohnowls said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

bigjohnowls said:

Totals of council seats changing hands in principal authority council by-elections since May:
Con -17
Lab 0
LD +16
Gr +4
SNP -4
Ind +1

Your data suggests maybe you should ditch the Green Tories and join the LDs?

No mate it is you thats switched from Blue Tory to Red Tory

I have switched from Red Democratic Socialist to Green Democratic Socialist and SKS Party has switched from Lab to Red Tory

But in your list the LDs are +16, whereas your GTs only +4.

So what? Of the 3 Tory alternatives Yellow Tory are slightly less bad that Blue or Red Tory

Your point is what?

GTs won't do much at the GE?

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

So what's the point of the stupid Commonwealth, then?

Sunil_Prasannan

Malmesbury said:

In the interests of Peace, I demand the the Guyanians should surrender immediately.

Their existence is neo-colonialist imperialism anyway. After they have been driven from the land by the vastly superior Venezuelan forces, there is no prospect of their return. So the future facts on the ground demand their immediate capitulation.

I fear you may have gone Caracas!

Sunil_Prasannan

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

Since when did you become a monarchist??

HYUFD

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

So what's the point of the stupid Commonwealth, then?

Some trade and cultural links it is not a mutual self defence organisation like NATO

Sunil_Prasannan

Andy_JS said:

Thanks for the article JJ.

Seconded, great stuff!

HYUFD

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

Sunil_Prasannan

HYUFD said:

Sunil_Prasannan said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

So what's the point of the stupid Commonwealth, then?

Some trade and cultural links it is not a mutual self defence organisation like NATO

So basically no point then?

Malmesbury

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

williamglenn

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

Carnyx

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

TheScreamingEagles

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

So you’ve never heard about Ukraine.

TheScreamingEagles

Sunil_Prasannan said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

Since when did you become a monarchist??

I’m not but I’ll use any fact to win an argument.

TheScreamingEagles

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

So you’ve never heard about Ukraine.

Not in his atlas, which is of the same vintage as Our Island Story.

Sunil_Prasannan

There actually FIVE different Guyanas (or Guianas if you prefer).

Guyana (former British Guiana)
Suriname (former Dutch Guiana)
French Guiana (still French, natch)
Portuguese Guiana (roughly corresponding to the Amapa State of Brazil)
and
Spanish Guiana (covering the Amazonas, Bolivar, and Delta Amacuro provinces of Venezuela). There's even a Cuidad Guayana in the region.

HYUFD

TheScreamingEagles said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

So you’ve never heard about Ukraine.

We aren't at war with Russia are we, a few supplies to Ukraine that is it

Carnyx

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

JosiasJessop

I cut this article down from some (over copious notes) I had. If I may, may I just add a few other points here:

Figures vary, but there are in the order of 200,000 to 300,000 Guyanans living in he USA; mainly in New York. This is a large proportion of the ~800,000 population of Guyana itself.

40% of Guyanans are of Indian heritage, as a consequence of the abolition of slavery and its British roots (*); 30% are of West African heritage, brought over as part of the slave trade.

*Never* confuse Guyana with French Guiana. It annoys lots of people. The latter is best known for launching loads of rockets for FranceEurope.

The oil finds are causing an explosion in Guyana's GDP. This obviously has advantages, but also some rather serious potential consequences. Will all that money be spent and distributed wisely? Will it destabilise its already slightly rocky politics? Will it be able to be exploited to Guyana's advantage, especially if oil demand reduces over the next few decades?

For a different perspective, Forbes published the following after I wrote this, stating that war is unlikely. Some of the points it makes vary with what other sources (for instance that the 1966 Geneva Agreement voided the earlier agreement - that is very much Venezuela's position, which many other countries disagree with. Still, it is worth a read:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/eliasferrerbreda/2023/11/30/essequibo-dispute-no-plan-for-war-in-guyana/?sh=2c02005f15a4

(*) Not that I believe that the Indians who went to Guyana had a massively better life than the Africans had before. Life was hard, especially as indentured people.

williamglenn

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

And France has still got a Guiana.

DavidL

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:

In the interests of Peace, I demand the the Guyanians should surrender immediately.

Their existence is neo-colonialist imperialism anyway. After they have been driven from the land by the vastly superior Venezuelan forces, there is no prospect of their return. So the future facts on the ground demand their immediate capitulation.

You miss the point that facts on the ground have already changed and vast numbers of Venezuelans have fled into Guyana, so that in any future Russian-style referendum, they might well vote for Venezuela to annexe their new homeland.

If they are fleeing Venezuelan oppression and brutality voting to rejoin Venezuela would seem a tad unlikely.

viewcode

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

I assumed it was a Starship ripoff. Is it?

Malmesbury

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

The one with the reusable second stage.

Any resemblance to following is a coincidence....

Carnyx

viewcode said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

I assumed it was a Starship ripoff. Is it?

Haven't a clue. Waiting for the PB rocketeers ...

Carnyx

Malmesbury said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

The one with the reusable second stage.

Any resemblance to following is a coincidence....

Thanks!

NickyBreakspear

I am interested in the area since a holiday to Venezuela around 27 years ago.

We climbed up Mount Roriama and walked around the tripoint of Venezuela, Guyana and Brazil.

So I can state I have have visited Essequibo, if only briefly.

HYUFD

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

I wouldn't go to war to defend the Republic of India either unless with a UN mandate, we don't even have a trade deal with India at present.

As I said outside British Overseas Territories or Commonwealth realms we don't go to war to defend any other nation without a UN or NATO mandate or under a US led campaign

JosiasJessop

MattW said:

Thanks for the piece, JayJay.

Perhaps any sabre rattling in Venezuela probably tells us far more about contemporary Venezuela than it does Guyana?

I note that Wiki seems to think the Guyana GDP is $20k/head not $10k/head. That is the 4th higherst in South America.

IIRC Guyana was the pioneer place where a decade ago a significant international endowment fund was setup to help preserve he rainforest. Have you run into any indication of how well that has worked, and how rainforest preservation might work with new oil wealth?

Yep; the 'problem' is that their GDP is rocketing up, mainly due to the oil (and other natural resources such as gold and diamonds). I decided a lower, slightly older figure was more representative to show the usual situation. The chart below shows the massive increase per capita over the last few years. Needless to say, it is doubtful that the entire population is seeing the benefits equally...

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD?locations=GY

Malmesbury

viewcode said:

Carnyx said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this



26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

What's the variant with winglets/fins?

I assumed it was a Starship ripoff. Is it?

Yes - they seem to be evolving the Long March 9 into “Do a Tu-4 on Starship”

There is a semi private Chinese rocket company that is doing the same for Falcon 9

So the Chinese are going for copying. Europe is going for Denial. As is trad aerospace in the US.

Wish someone would do something smart - see Stoke….

Leon

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

Mexicanpete

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

I wouldn't go to war to defend the Republic of India either, we don't even have a trade deal with India at present.

As I said outside British Overseas Territories or Commonwealth realms we don't go to war to defend any other nation without a UN or NATO mandate or under a US led campaign

After Blair's escapade in Iraq we would be better served keeping out of any conflict that doesn't directly impact us or is existential (Ukraine does/is).

We need to keep our powder dry to recover the Malvinas.

Leon

Incidentally, @JosiasJessop - that is an exemplary threader

Lucid, cogent, direct, illuminating and thought-provoking. You give the background, you explain the issues, you offer context, you say why it matters. Bingo

Better than we will get from several major papers, probably

bondegezou

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

I wouldn't go to war to defend the Republic of India either, we don't even have a trade deal with India at present.

As I said outside British Overseas Territories or Commonwealth realms we don't go to war to defend any other nation without a UN or NATO mandate or under a US led campaign

After Blair's escapade in Iraq we would be better served keeping out of any conflict that doesn't directly impact us or is existential (Ukraine does/is).

We need to keep our powder dry to recover the Malvinas.

Resisting the annexation of territory would be more first Gulf War then second Gulf War. Hopefully, this is just sabre-rattling by Venezuela and it won't go anywhere.

kinabalu

Thanks for the interesting header josjess. Is there a potential British involvement here then? Hopefully not?

williamglenn

https://x.com/griptmedia/status/1730574048445317331

Irish Times journalist Kitty Holland says the Irish media "were right" to not publish the full comments of Ryan Casey, boyfriend of murdered 23-year-old Ashling Murphy, claiming that his remarks were "incitement to hatred" and that it wouldn't be "helpful" to share them.

HYUFD

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

I wouldn't go to war to defend the Republic of India either, we don't even have a trade deal with India at present.

As I said outside British Overseas Territories or Commonwealth realms we don't go to war to defend any other nation without a UN or NATO mandate or under a US led campaign

After Blair's escapade in Iraq we would be better served keeping out of any conflict that doesn't directly impact us or is existential (Ukraine does/is).

We need to keep our powder dry to recover the Malvinas.

Milei at least has made clear he has no interest in armed conflict there

Mexicanpete

...

HYUFD said:

Mexicanpete said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

williamglenn said:

HYUFD said:

Carnyx said:

HYUFD said:

TheScreamingEagles said:

As President & Co-founder of the Start The War Coalition we should support Guyana both economically and militarily.

It is the right thing to do, also as a member of the Commonwealth it is what the late Queen would have wanted.

No Guyana became a republic and dumped the Queen in 1970, their defence is their problem now not ours

Interesting to see your view that THEY DON'T COUNT because republicans.

So much for soft "British" power.

They don't count in terms of British taxpayers funding their defence no.

If they can't defend themselves they obviously need the return of the British Crown.

We could build a massive retirement complex there to solve our ageing population problem.

They play cricket there too.

Well, there you are.

Wasn't HYUFD going on about the importance of links with India? They play cricket but dumped the King a lot longer ago than Guyana.

I wouldn't go to war to defend the Republic of India either, we don't even have a trade deal with India at present.

As I said outside British Overseas Territories or Commonwealth realms we don't go to war to defend any other nation without a UN or NATO mandate or under a US led campaign

After Blair's escapade in Iraq we would be better served keeping out of any conflict that doesn't directly impact us or is existential (Ukraine does/is).

We need to keep our powder dry to recover the Malvinas.

Milei at least has made clear he has no interest in armed conflict there

He may have an invisible Garden Bridge to sell you.

Leon

williamglenn said:

https://x.com/griptmedia/status/1730574048445317331

Irish Times journalist Kitty Holland says the Irish media "were right" to not publish the full comments of Ryan Casey, boyfriend of murdered 23-year-old Ashling Murphy, claiming that his remarks were "incitement to hatred" and that it wouldn't be "helpful" to share them.

Ireland is diseased

Sandpit

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

kinabalu

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

I hope not, Leon, but you have to say it's possible. Trump2 would fit the bill, as soon as next year, and that's a 2.6 shot to happen. Ok so I reckon not but plenty of far more seasoned pundits than me think otherwise.

As for far right v far left, yes the former has by far the easier path to power in the democratic west. It takes real skill and guts to fight racism and xenophobia. Pandering, fostering and exploiting it, less so.

JosiasJessop

kinabalu said:

Thanks for the interesting header josjess. Is there a potential British involvement here then? Hopefully not?

What is in our interests? Is Venezuela dismembering another sovereign country (to the point that country is essentially unviable) enough of a threat to our interests to cause us to spend money and treasure on stopping them? And how does our colonial history/guilt play into that?

I don't know. Much would depend on Venezuela's exact actions, and the reaction of neighbouring countries and the USA.

OnlyLivingBoy

Interesting header, thanks. Only quibble is it's Guyanese not Guyanan. I once transmitted through Georgetown Airport en route from Bridgetown to Paramaribo. Lovely part of the world.

Andy_JS

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

A lot of it is down to impatience with other points of view. You see it everywhere. People can't bear to hear or read anything they don't agree with.

Northern_Al

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

A lot of it is down to impatience with other points of view. You see it everywhere. People can't bear to hear or read anything they don't agree with.

Not sure about that. For example, I patiently wade through PB comments most days.

bondegezou

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

A lot of it is down to impatience with other points of view. You see it everywhere. People can't bear to hear or read anything they don't agree with.

Indeed. They typically then come here and start going on about "woke".

Nigelb

BREAKING —
@SpeakerJohnson
told me he will vote AGAINST expelling
@MrSantosNY
https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1730590623869112491

Effing LOL.
I guess they need his vote for Biden's impeachment.
LOL again.

viewcode

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Nigelb

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

viewcode

Andy_JS said:

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

A lot of it is down to impatience with other points of view. You see it everywhere. People can't bear to hear or read anything they don't agree with.

YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE A BAD PERSON! I'M TELLING MUM ON YOU!

(sorry, couldn't resist )

DecrepiterJohnL

Donald Trump's unique take on DeSantis vs Newsom: “BATTLE OF LOSERVILLE”. I do not think DJT likes RDS.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111503576899732074

(Language might be nsfw.)

Nigelb

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Donald Trump's unique take on DeSantis vs Newsom: “BATTLE OF LOSERVILLE”. I do not think DJT likes RDS.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111503576899732074

(Language might be nsfw.)

Newsom beat him to the punch

“You are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out-Trump Trump,” Newsom said. “How is that going for you, Ron? You are down 41 points in your own home state.”

Nigelb

RIP Sandra Day O’Connor.

OldKingCole

kinabalu said:

Thanks for the interesting header josjess. Is there a potential British involvement here then? Hopefully not?

Commonwealth country. And they play cricket!

bondegezou

Nigelb said:

RIP Sandra Day O’Connor.

From her Wikipedia article: "After retiring, she succeeded Henry Kissinger as the Chancellor of the College of William & Mary." Suspicious...

algarkirk

The photo of this thatchers heaven brings to mind: an Anglo Saxon mead hall of the Northumbrian golden age, a perfect building for a June wedding reception in cloudless sunshine, and the ideal setting for long drinks with little umbrellas in them. Please, no wars. Maybe Leon could report on this little known place sometime?

Andy_JS

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

OldKingCole

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

felix

OldKingCole said:

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

Unless you think Ofcom and the Telegraph are the same what is your point?

Ghedebrav

kinabalu said:

Leon said:

Fpt

It is screamingly obvious there will be a full on extremist government jn the west within a decade or so

You could argue Trump was fairly close. Closer than Meloni. Orban is close

And it might not be extreme right - could be left. Certainly don’t rule it out. Everything is pushing politics towards the edges - tho my hunch is far right is much more likely because so much of the pressure is from migration and from the woke left pushing red buttons

I hope not, Leon, but you have to say it's possible. Trump2 would fit the bill, as soon as next year, and that's a 2.6 shot to happen. Ok so I reckon not but plenty of far more seasoned pundits than me think otherwise.

As for far right v far left, yes the former has by far the easier path to power in the democratic west. It takes real skill and guts to fight racism and xenophobia. Pandering, fostering and exploiting it, less so.

Oddly, for all that Orban is very much Of The Right, my visit to Budapest earlier this year very much gave the impression of a globally-integrated, youthful and liberal place (and prosperous with it). Like Meloni, I suspect he's a bit more pragmatic behind closed doors.

Fascism is possible, but I don't think it will actually resolve any of the issues driving people to vote for it. We have seen, for example, the abject failure of our populist rightist government to seriously control immigration ('tens of thousands', lol), because they don't take the problem seriously from a policy/delivery POV, only from a 'talking tough' optics POV. It doesn't cost much to have vans with GO HOME on the side driving around; developing a robust and modern immigration system (with the right staffing, infrastructure and equipment) does.

Per the excellent John Gray video (on Joe Media) somebody posted here a few days back, a lot of the popular outlook in our declining liberal democracies is quite leftist/statist in many ways.

If it does happen, Trump seems by far the most likely. He's a deranged narcissist with a massive groundswell of support (and tbh I feel the segments of the US are more apt to trying out a bit of full-on fash than in Europe, especially if it comes Gilead-flavoured).

JosiasJessop

algarkirk said:

The photo of this thatchers heaven brings to mind: an Anglo Saxon mead hall of the Northumbrian golden age, a perfect building for a June wedding reception in cloudless sunshine, and the ideal setting for long drinks with little umbrellas in them. Please, no wars. Maybe Leon could report on this little known place sometime?

That's an interesting point: aren't many rural low-tech housing around the world essentially the same design? Round, wooden, mud or mud-brick walls, with strengthening material (e.g. hair), with a peaked wooden roof, with thatched covering.

There are obvious exceptions, e.g. Skara Brae on Orkney, but it seems a rather common example of convergent design evolution. The best shapes for strength, materials and purpose. I wonder if you could place an 1800-era tribesman from PNG in an Iron Age British roundhouse and have them feel at home?

Ghedebrav

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

Unless you think Ofcom and the Telegraph are the same what is your point?

Here's the actual report, if you want to avoid the Telegraph's spin: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0016/272401/BBC-Audiences-Review.pdf

Ofcom produced excellent studies like this pretty routinely; it's worth periodically checking in our their site to see what they're up to.

Malmesbury

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

The N-1 is misunderstood.

They were attempting all up testing - for a tiny fraction of the Saturn 5 budget, they nearly got it working. A couple more launches and they would have had it working.

The big problems were a complete lack of ground testing of the individual engines - explosively opening valves! - plus poor computer control.

The program was already dead, politically, when they were launching. The Soviet leadership was already moving away from attempting to catch up with the Americans in space. Funding was already cut off - they were using up what they had to try and persuade the Big Bosses to turn the taps on again.

Jim_Miller

Two thoughts: First, Biden's recent lifting of sanctions -- in return for a promise of elections in Venzuela - is what most Americans would want him to do. (And would probably help him with people in the UK and elsewhere who get their views from the Guardian.)

Second, sometimes there is a "rally round the flag" effect in the US, where support for a president goes up -- usually for a short period of time -- in foreign crises.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_'round_the_flag_effect

OldKingCole

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

Unless you think Ofcom and the Telegraph are the same what is your point?

Just being facetious. Pb on a Friday evening!

Jim_Miller

More examples of "rural, low-tech housing" here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogan

Fairliered

George Santos expelled. 311 - 114.

Malmesbury

Nigelb said:

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

The copying seems to be “whatever SpaceX was doing 5 years ago”

He’s been pointing out for years that patenting rocket technology merely provides a blueprint. How do you sue a government or a government’s pet military contractor for infringing?

EDIT : I’m expecting an other Long March 9 update, as are most observers. Following the announcement of Starship version 2.

kamski

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

Unless you think Ofcom and the Telegraph are the same what is your point?

The report itself has one mention of the term "politically correct" on page 20 of the 34 page document:
"A key issue, raised by a number of people that we spoke to, was that BBC programming is increasingly
seen as dry and serious compared to other PSB channels and the major streaming services. While this
was seen as appropriate for some genres (such as news and current affairs, and certain dramas),
overall our participants felt there was more ‘fun’ content available elsewhere and often turned to
other channels or to streaming services for more light-hearted programming.
BBC content was also seen as increasingly ‘safe’ and, by some, overly politically correct. In explaining
how the BBC has become ‘safe’ people mentioned past programming they had enjoyed but felt
wouldn’t be made any more , or they mentioned presenters and talent that they felt the BBC used to
employ but wouldn’t now (e.g. Ricky Gervais, Jeremy Clarkson)."

Not unexpectedly, the Telegraph's take on it probably isn't a balanced representation of the main points in the report.

TheScreamingEagles

Agree.

Malmesbury

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

The Chinese copying thing is almost getting embarrassing.

Mind you, it is slightly better than doing nothing - see Europe

Sean_F

Fairliered said:

George Santos expelled. 311 - 114.

I'm surprised. I thought the Republicans would simply decide that they needed his vote.

NickyBreakspear

Average polling for this week.



No obvious movement as a result of the Autumn Statement. Libdems down and Reform up.

DecrepiterJohnL

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

The copying seems to be “whatever SpaceX was doing 5 years ago”

He’s been pointing out for years that patenting rocket technology merely provides a blueprint. How do you sue a government or a government’s pet military contractor for infringing?

EDIT : I’m expecting an other Long March 9 update, as are most observers. Following the announcement of Starship version 2.

It turns out copying rockets is a bit like copying Concorde. Viewers of the recent Channel 4 documentary will know how Russian spies passed the blueprints to Moscow but Russian engineers missed crucial aspects of the air intakes so while Concordski might have been first into service, it was also first to crash.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/concorde-the-race-for-supersonic

kinabalu

Nigelb said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Donald Trump's unique take on DeSantis vs Newsom: “BATTLE OF LOSERVILLE”. I do not think DJT likes RDS.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111503576899732074

(Language might be nsfw.)

Newsom beat him to the punch

“You are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out-Trump Trump,” Newsom said. “How is that going for you, Ron? You are down 41 points in your own home state.”

Re Newsom, he seems to be the Dems 'Haley', ie seen as the most likely nomination if the frontrunner for some reason isn't. So I compared them (him and her) on betfair and it's interesting. They are similar (about 7) for their noms but Haley is a fair bit shorter (at 9 something) for the WH, implying that punters think she's almost nailed on in November if she's the candidate whereas he is definitely not.

I guess this means educated opinion is that Biden is more beatable by a Not Trump than Trump is by a Not Biden. And maybe that's right due to Trump's bigger 'core', ie of voters who think of him positively and passionately. Hate to stumble my way to a point supporting Trump's chances, so hopefully there's another and better explanation.

Malmesbury

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

The copying seems to be “whatever SpaceX was doing 5 years ago”

He’s been pointing out for years that patenting rocket technology merely provides a blueprint. How do you sue a government or a government’s pet military contractor for infringing?

EDIT : I’m expecting an other Long March 9 update, as are most observers. Following the announcement of Starship version 2.

It turns out copying rockets is a bit like copying Concorde. Viewers of the recent Channel 4 documentary will know how Russian spies passed the blueprints to Moscow but Russian engineers missed crucial aspects of the air intakes so while Concordski might have been first into service, it was also first to crash.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/concorde-the-race-for-supersonic

The bigger “miss” with true Tu-144 was the wing shape.

They didn’t get delta wings right

Vulcan prototype



Vulcan production



The wing shape on the Concorde was even more sophisticated, curved in 3D.

Sandpit

Malmesbury said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

The N-1 is misunderstood.

They were attempting all up testing - for a tiny fraction of the Saturn 5 budget, they nearly got it working. A couple more launches and they would have had it working.

The big problems were a complete lack of ground testing of the individual engines - explosively opening valves! - plus poor computer control.

The program was already dead, politically, when they were launching. The Soviet leadership was already moving away from attempting to catch up with the Americans in space. Funding was already cut off - they were using up what they had to try and persuade the Big Bosses to turn the taps on again.

Oh indeed - but still one of the biggest booms of all time!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=gklVhRzkVqA

JosiasJessop

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

The copying seems to be “whatever SpaceX was doing 5 years ago”

He’s been pointing out for years that patenting rocket technology merely provides a blueprint. How do you sue a government or a government’s pet military contractor for infringing?

EDIT : I’m expecting an other Long March 9 update, as are most observers. Following the announcement of Starship version 2.

It turns out copying rockets is a bit like copying Concorde. Viewers of the recent Channel 4 documentary will know how Russian spies passed the blueprints to Moscow but Russian engineers missed crucial aspects of the air intakes so while Concordski might have been first into service, it was also first to crash.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/concorde-the-race-for-supersonic

IANAE, but I'm unconvinced by that argument. Yes, there was some copying, but the designs are actually significantly different in various ways; e.g. the canards on Konkordski, the positioning of the engines, and even the delta wing shapes differ.

What did converge were the requirements. And if you try to build something to do the same task with roughly the same technology level, you may get things that look very similar on the surface - because that's the best design for the job. The same thing happened with the Space Shuttle and Buran: they were designed to perform pretty much identical tasks, and so they look superficially similar.

MJW

Oh to be a fly on the wall at King's Place this afternoon...

DecrepiterJohnL

Rishi Sunak denies having ‘hissy fit’ over Elgin Marbles

Prime Minister criticised by George Osborne after Sunak cancelled meeting with the Greek prime minister
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/12/01/kyriakos-mitsotakis-george-osborne-rishi-sunak-elgin-marble/ (£££)

Great headlines of our time but not Rishi's.

Osborne had suggested Rishi had a hissy fit because the Greek PM met Starmer.

Sandpit

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Malmesbury said:

Nigelb said:

viewcode said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

It's not like there's been a recent launch of a massive 33-engine methalox rocket recently...

Elon does a lot of business in China...

The copying seems to be “whatever SpaceX was doing 5 years ago”

He’s been pointing out for years that patenting rocket technology merely provides a blueprint. How do you sue a government or a government’s pet military contractor for infringing?

EDIT : I’m expecting an other Long March 9 update, as are most observers. Following the announcement of Starship version 2.

It turns out copying rockets is a bit like copying Concorde. Viewers of the recent Channel 4 documentary will know how Russian spies passed the blueprints to Moscow but Russian engineers missed crucial aspects of the air intakes so while Concordski might have been first into service, it was also first to crash.
https://www.channel4.com/programmes/concorde-the-race-for-supersonic

Yes Concordski was always going to be a total failure, because the Soviets didn’t understand the criticality of the wing and inlet design, even after they had the blueprints and were looking at them.

kinabalu

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

I bet they were leading questions they posed.

eek

Fergus Butler-Gallie
@_F_B_G_
Perfect Elgin Marbles solution: The King personally gives them back, but says he can only do so to a fellow sovereign. At short notice they need a monarch with Greek heritage and an obviously Greek name for a one way trip to Athens: step up Andrew


https://twitter.com/_F_B_G_/status/1730611567086157996

Sean_F

eek said:

Fergus Butler-Gallie
@_F_B_G_
Perfect Elgin Marbles solution: The King personally gives them back, but says he can only do so to a fellow sovereign. At short notice they need a monarch with Greek heritage and an obviously Greek name for a one way trip to Athens: step up Andrew


https://twitter.com/_F_B_G_/status/1730611567086157996

The Greeks don't deserve that!

JosiasJessop

Malmesbury said:

Sandpit said:

Malmesbury said:

Space post. The latest presentation on the Long March 9 launch vehicle the Chinese Government is building contains this

img src="https://i.imgur.com/JICXIpU.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" />

26 Methalox FFSC engines on the first stage.....

About as reliable as a Soviet N-1 then.

The N-1 is misunderstood.

They were attempting all up testing - for a tiny fraction of the Saturn 5 budget, they nearly got it working. A couple more launches and they would have had it working.

The big problems were a complete lack of ground testing of the individual engines - explosively opening valves! - plus poor computer control.

The program was already dead, politically, when they were launching. The Soviet leadership was already moving away from attempting to catch up with the Americans in space. Funding was already cut off - they were using up what they had to try and persuade the Big Bosses to turn the taps on again.

What got me about the N1 was that, in order to launch it, they had to cut off water supply to the nearby city for a week or so - because of all the water required for the deluge system. Instead of building a better water supply, they just cut off the water supply to the people...

And yes, having engines that could not be ground-tested was stupid. As was not building a ground-test facility for stages, as the US did for Saturn V. From memory, the engineers and project managers knew this and argued for it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouYoF9cQI44

Sean_F

We Think has Lab. 44%, Con 28%, Lib Dem 9%, Reform 8%.

MJW

kinabalu said:

Nigelb said:

DecrepiterJohnL said:

Donald Trump's unique take on DeSantis vs Newsom: “BATTLE OF LOSERVILLE”. I do not think DJT likes RDS.
https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/111503576899732074

(Language might be nsfw.)

Newsom beat him to the punch

“You are trolling folks and trying to play political games so you can out-Trump Trump,” Newsom said. “How is that going for you, Ron? You are down 41 points in your own home state.”

Re Newsom, he seems to be the Dems 'Haley', ie seen as the most likely nomination if the frontrunner for some reason isn't. So I compared them (him and her) on betfair and it's interesting. They are similar (about 7) for their noms but Haley is a fair bit shorter (at 9 something) for the WH, implying that punters think she's almost nailed on in November if she's the candidate whereas he is definitely not.

I guess this means educated opinion is that Biden is more beatable by a Not Trump than Trump is by a Not Biden. And maybe that's right due to Trump's bigger 'core', ie of voters who think of him positively and passionately. Hate to stumble my way to a point supporting Trump's chances, so hopefully there's another and better explanation.

Fairly simple, surely? Trump is a drag on the Republican ticket and still won one of two presidential elections as the electoral college as it stands favours the GOP. Biden is the only person with proof he can overcome that against Trump, but is currently polling level or behind Trump - with the former or a small lead likely resulting in a loss. All other things being equal and were the nomination not an issue, the person with the best chance in a theoretical election is a non-Trump Republican.

Andy_JS

Sean_F said:

We Think has Lab. 44%, Con 28%, Lib Dem 9%, Reform 8%.

Almost a cause for celebration for the Tories, to see figures of only 44/28.

OnlyLivingBoy

kamski said:

felix said:

OldKingCole said:

Andy_JS said:

"BBC is too politically correct, say working-class audiences
Ofcom study has found viewers miss days when BBC was ‘fun’, with output becoming ‘dry’, ‘cringey’ and out of touch

By Anita Singh, ARTS AND ENTERTAINMENT EDITOR and India McTaggart, ENTERTAINMENT & ROYAL CORRESPONDENT'

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/30/bbc-too-politically-correct-working-class-audiences-ofcom

How does the Telegraph know what ‘working class’ audiences think? Have they been talking to the cleaner and the gardener?

Unless you think Ofcom and the Telegraph are the same what is your point?

The report itself has one mention of the term "politically correct" on page 20 of the 34 page document:
"A key issue, raised by a number of people that we spoke to, was that BBC programming is increasingly
seen as dry and serious compared to other PSB channels and the major streaming services. While this
was seen as appropriate for some genres (such as news and current affairs, and certain dramas),
overall our participants felt there was more ‘fun’ content available elsewhere and often turned to
other channels or to streaming services for more light-hearted programming.
BBC content was also seen as increasingly ‘safe’ and, by some, overly politically correct. In explaining
how the BBC has become ‘safe’ people mentioned past programming they had enjoyed but felt
wouldn’t be made any more , or they mentioned presenters and talent that they felt the BBC used to
employ but wouldn’t now (e.g. Ricky Gervais, Jeremy Clarkson)."

Not unexpectedly, the Telegraph's take on it probably isn't a balanced representation of the main points in the report.

Bring back Jim'll Fix It and the Black and White Minstrels. Great days.

Carnyx

JosiasJessop said:

algarkirk said:

The photo of this thatchers heaven brings to mind: an Anglo Saxon mead hall of the Northumbrian golden age, a perfect building for a June wedding reception in cloudless sunshine, and the ideal setting for long drinks with little umbrellas in them. Please, no wars. Maybe Leon could report on this little known place sometime?

That's an interesting point: aren't many rural low-tech housing around the world essentially the same design? Round, wooden, mud or mud-brick walls, with strengthening material (e.g. hair), with a peaked wooden roof, with thatched covering.

There are obvious exceptions, e.g. Skara Brae on Orkney, but it seems a rather common example of convergent design evolution. The best shapes for strength, materials and purpose. I wonder if you could place an 1800-era tribesman from PNG in an Iron Age British roundhouse and have them feel at home?

He'd wonder why the locals were so badly dressed - no arsegrass* or penis sheaths.

And where all the tree kangaroos had gone.

But yes, the house would seem sensible to him ...

*correct term - a friend of mine did an internship at the diarrhoea specialist hospital (I forget what it was called) up country.