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WH2024: the early primary States – politicalbetting.com

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  • SirNorfolkPassmoreSirNorfolkPassmore Posts: 7,149
    edited November 2023


    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    NEW 🚨
    Wilko former family owner Lisa Wilkinson reveals to MPs that the previously debt free, furlough avoiding family business was in the middle of negotiating a secured loan from
    Macquarie Bank when the 2022 mini budget hit “hiking interest massively” making loan “infeasible”.

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1729462508656750934

    Yay! Another victory for "set the markets free" Trussism.
    More a victory for “I was running this perfectly sound business, when suddenly the insane debt leveraging that I’d engineered blew up in my face. Who could have seen that coming?”
    To me it borders on the criminal when companies undertake such approaches.
    I find it strange that a stress test isn’t part of the audit for large concerns.
    I'm not at all sure it should. These aren't deposit taking institutions, and their survival isn't crucial for overall financial stability. Businesses take risks, some take more risks than others, and both institutional lenders and investors just need to assess that for themselves.

    From the point of view of suppliers…

    The audit is supposed to tell people about the stability and viability of the business.
    Suppliers need to take a view on level of exposure and on payment terms. And, realistically, suppliers aren't going to trawl through last year's audit opinion before deciding whether or not to supply a company and whether to demand cash on delivery or in 30 days. It wouldn't be terribly useful and would add cost.

    Auditors aren't entrepreneurs and don't pretend to be. They are there to verify that published accounts and statements fairly reflect the financial position, not to decide whether the company is being wisely led.

  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    algarkirk said:

    This whole Greek marbles kerfuffle is ridiculous. Makes Sunak seem incredibly petty, but also makes us look ridiculous as a country. Every year we look more diminished on the world stage. Embarrassing stuff.

    It would not be astonishing if Sunak has done this petty thing at just the period of time when a good number of UK traditionalists are beginning to think: "That was then and this is now, things change" and that returning them to our Greek friends would be a genuinely historic and cultural advance in being civilized.
    No. If and when we ever return the Marbles then every other nation will come hunting for their treasures and one of the great collections in the world will end up dismembered - a tragedy for humanity as much as a crying shame for London. Why are we so pathetically spineless? Is the Louvre handing back any of its many pilfered riches? Nope

    The best route is actually Osborne’s. We loan them to Greece temporarily and they loan stuff back to us, say every five years, then they are rotated. That preserves the legal and (in part) actual integrity of the British Museum collection without establishing a terrible precedent, and it also should satisfy the Greeks
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Kerala’s somewhere I’ve wanted to go. I’ve been to Goa and Jaipur, and found them interesting; Jaipur particularly.
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Every twat's been to India. Go to Afghanistan.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Incidentally, a certain poster once threatened me with *someone else's* lawyers when I called Corbyn an anti-Semite.

    Needless to say, I haven't received any letters from Cotbyn's learned friends.

    So I'll happily still call Corbyn an anti-Semite. Mainly because in my opinion he is.

    I believe Tim formerly of this Parish did receive letters from Jezzas learned friends for something he said off here
    (Snip)
    Does that give you the right to go around threatening people with Corbyn's learned friends, just because you don't like to hear people call Corbyn an anti-Semite?

    There's a meme online about weird nerds jumping in front of guns aimed at Musk, using a scene from the Simpsons. I'm intrigued why another anti-Semitic, narcissistic idiot such as Corbyn also attracts such devotion.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Endillion said:

    Endillion said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    TOPPING said:

    Leon said:

    148grss said:

    algarkirk said:

    Sean_F said:

    Leon said:

    Guardian Exclusive

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/nov/28/the-monarchy-looks-vulnerable-will-britains-republicans-bring-down-the-king

    THE MONARCHY LOOKS VULNERABLE!

    Narrator: polls say 62% of Brits support the monarchy, 26% say replace it: more than two to one. And about the same support as in 2012

    https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/46032-one-year-of-king-charles-how-do-britons-feel-ab

    In short, No They Won’t. Republic is like the National Secular Society, or Just Stop Oil. They attract a band of committed activists, but come over as cranks to most.

    I see Harry and Meghan remain about as popular as the Conservative Party.
    The monarchy is impossible to abolish until a particular condition is met. It has to be an electoral advantage to put 'a Referendum on Abolishing the Monarchy' in a general election manifesto.

    This can't happen as long as the question would negatively sway even a million or so royalist voters. So, for example, if Labour put it in their manifesto (which of course they won't) I would not vote for them, and I am very much a centrist moderate about politics, including the monarchy.

    There are of course two big questions. Not only 'abolition' but also 'what replaces it'. The second is, in the age of elected heads of state like Trump, difficult. Monarchy replaced by Boris/Farage/Corbyn/ Gazza/Elton John anyone?
    A democratic head of state is more legitimate than a non elected one - even if they're an awful person. Your position is "democracy is good, except for this part, where bloodline is apparently a good enough qualification".
    Hitler was elected
    So was H*m*s. Whisper it.
    So was Bibi

    Your Stockholm Syndrome grows by the day.
    Same as the Israeli hostages!
    I just find it funny. You were crapping yourself like a bitch when the Islamic "militants" were outside your hotel room door gunning down your fellow package holidaymakers.
    What would you have done?

    Given them a stiff talking to!!


    Then we come to the Israeli response. As has been asked a zillion times, what would you have had them do?
    Negotiate with Hamas as has now happened securing a release of hostages by exchange.

    Then go after the perpetrators properly targeting them using proper intelligence rather than flattening the place with a huge loss of innocent life and killing bugger all Hamas .

    What has it achieved how many hostages were freed by the IDF?.

    Are future generation of Palestinians more or less likely to want to kill Israelis?

    Do you think Israel is going to be a safer place to live with less terrorism following its current campaign?

    Pointless slaughter does nobody any good.
    I do think it's important to remind everyone else that Hamas and the other terrorist groups in Gaza have fired over ten thousand missiles at Israeli urban areas since October 7 (including a barrage of around 5,000 as a prelude to the atrocities of that day), and that that campaign has been ongoing more or less non-stop for over 20 years.

    Stopping the almost daily interruption to everyday life in large parts of the country due to air raid sirens going off is an absolute pre-requisite for the ending of the current war. It is very clear that this could not have been accomplished via negotiation, and also that the current negotiations have been made significantly easier due to Hamas' desperate desire for a temporary ceasefire so it can resupply.

    There are zero other countries in the world with means to stop it that would have tolerated the missile bombardment out of a hostile neighbouring state for this long. Frankly it's ridiculous that Israel did tolerate it, not least because I now have to make this point, like stopping your civilians coming under near constant rocket fire is some sort of mad idea.
    I have just received the following private message via the site:

    I am asking my lawyers to write to the site owners to get your details over you calling me an Anti Semite.

    Post a withdrawal or prepare for very expensive legal action


    Obviously I can't be bothered with this, and in any case do not wish to cause trouble for the site admins.

    Apropos of nothing, I would like to withdraw the accusation that @bigjohnowls is an anti-semite, and apologise to him for any distress caused.

    However, i would like to add that I was at the march on Sunday, and based on what I saw and what has been reported, I think his characterisation of it as "Hate march in favour of genocide and killing babies" to be nothing short of morally reprehensible.
    You can call me an anti-semite if that helps. I don't give a fuck.
    Me too. I don’t give a fuck either
    Well that's bollocks. You accused me of calling you an anti-Semite (which I didn't). And you went f***in' apeshit.

    "Fellow Travellers". Do you remember now?
    Stop the press: I can some times be a bit shouty on PB

    The point is, did I get lawyered up and start threatening my fellow PB-ers with writs? No
    Well I'm only posting because of the ungracious way you responded to having your lack of logic pointed out to you, but doh you have done it again. @Mexicanpete was not commenting upon the doxing point but that you said 'I don't give a fuck either' to being called an anti-semite and he pointed out you did. Nothing to do with doxing or getting lawyered up.

    Honestly this mega IQ claim is falling apart dramatically.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Every twat's been to India. Go to Afghanistan.
    I've not been to India. Does that mean I'm not a twat? :)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Kerala’s somewhere I’ve wanted to go. I’ve been to Goa and Jaipur, and found them interesting; Jaipur particularly.
    Thank you

    Is Goa more than just nice beaches then? And what’s cool about Jaipur?

    Any info gratefully received
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Every twat's been to India. Go to Afghanistan.
    I’d love to! I’ve actually looked into it, but the visa problems are insuperable

    I’ve also looked into Baghdad, but the journey is a killer (about 98 changes) and horribly pricey

    But I am tempted (and you can get in without much hassle)
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    This whole Greek marbles kerfuffle is ridiculous. Makes Sunak seem incredibly petty, but also makes us look ridiculous as a country. Every year we look more diminished on the world stage. Embarrassing stuff.

    The only upside is that we haven't yet completely lost our* marbles :wink:

    *Ok, 'their'
  • sarissasarissa Posts: 1,993
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    I recommend the hill forts of Rajasthan as a group; start with the sleeper from New Delhi to Jodphur and take in the astonishing Jain temple at Ranakpur ( a bigger version of the Roslyn chapel, but in marble) then Udaipur and Kumbhalgarh Fort to Jaipur.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    algarkirk said:

    This whole Greek marbles kerfuffle is ridiculous. Makes Sunak seem incredibly petty, but also makes us look ridiculous as a country. Every year we look more diminished on the world stage. Embarrassing stuff.

    It would not be astonishing if Sunak has done this petty thing at just the period of time when a good number of UK traditionalists are beginning to think: "That was then and this is now, things change" and that returning them to our Greek friends would be a genuinely historic and cultural advance in being civilized.
    No. If and when we ever return the Marbles then every other nation will come hunting for their treasures and one of the great collections in the world will end up dismembered - a tragedy for humanity as much as a crying shame for London. Why are we so pathetically spineless? Is the Louvre handing back any of its many pilfered riches? Nope

    The best route is actually Osborne’s. We loan them to Greece temporarily and they loan stuff back to us, say every five years, then they are rotated. That preserves the legal and (in part) actual integrity of the British Museum collection without establishing a terrible precedent, and it also should satisfy the Greeks
    There's another aspect to this as well: preserving the world's heritage. As China shows with the Terracotta warriors or pandas, some things are powerful cultural icons. If (say) a typhoon was to hit Easter Island and destroy the heads, or another cultural revolution lead to the terracotta warriors being destroyed, it's not just those places, but the world, that loses. I'm actually in favour of things being spread out a little (with permission from the owners) to avoid this. It's good PR for the owning countries, and reduces risk. This is particularly true for items where there are several of them - it'd be harder to distribute Stonehenge or the Mona Lisa!

    We should not fall into the trap of thinking the world is static.
  • Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Every twat's been to India. Go to Afghanistan.
    I’d love to! I’ve actually looked into it, but the visa problems are insuperable

    I’ve also looked into Baghdad, but the journey is a killer (about 98 changes) and horribly pricey

    But I am tempted (and you can get in without much hassle)
    Visa problems? Can't you just bribe someone in India to take you over the border in a jeep?
  • dixiedeandixiedean Posts: 29,399
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Himachal?
    Simla, McLeod Ganj.
    Go see the Dalai Lama.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Hunter Biden's attorneys proposing that he testify in public on December 13—instead of in a closed-door deposition, according to a letter sent to the Oversight Committee
    https://twitter.com/jordainc/status/1729490859932954921
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263

    Leon said:

    Dura_Ace said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Every twat's been to India. Go to Afghanistan.
    I’d love to! I’ve actually looked into it, but the visa problems are insuperable

    I’ve also looked into Baghdad, but the journey is a killer (about 98 changes) and horribly pricey

    But I am tempted (and you can get in without much hassle)
    Visa problems? Can't you just bribe someone in India to take you over the border in a jeep?
    The UKG is quite emphatic about potential visa issues in Afghanistan



    “Consular services provided by the Afghan embassy in London are not valid in Afghanistan until further notice. Visas provided by the embassy may not be accepted when travelling to Afghanistan.”

    So even if you get a visa you probably haven’t got a visa
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning all.

    It's nice to see a United States Election thread.

    One issue which I have not seen mentioned here, which IMO may be pivotal, is a woman's right to abortion.

    There has been a series of amendments, defeats and ballot initiatives at State level clipping the wings, or overturning, the attempts to make abortion difficult or impossible to provide. And Democrats seem to be winning elections in those circumstances, and in some unexpected places. Was this a factor in the midterms?

    There are initiatives currently planned in around 9 states. The concept put forward is usually around "abortion until the time of fetus viability", which is very much along the lines of the principle here, and in many countries in Europe.

    AFAICS Trump is not backing a federal abortion ban.

    Here's a summary piece on Vox from the summer:
    https://www.vox.com/policy/23784409/abortion-ballot-measure-ohio-reproductive-rights-2024

    Does anyone with a more granular knowledge of USA politics than me have any comments?

    Abortion in many European countries, even Germany and Italy, is not allowed after 12 weeks which is more restricted than both here and many coastal US states
    I think you are misrepresenting the situation in both countries. Post-12 week abortion is allowed in Germany "in cases that the pregnancy poses an important danger to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman" (to quote Wikipedia) and in Italy "when the pregnancy or childbirth is a serious threat to the woman's life or when the pathological processes constitute a serious threat to the woman's physical or mental health" (ditto).
  • SelebianSelebian Posts: 8,727

    On the subject of people with idiosyncratic views, there's an independent running for Mayor of North Yorkshire called Keith Tordoff MBE (and boy, is he proud of that gong), worth keeping an eye on. He ran previously for PCC there, winning good double-digit shares of the vote and spending £10ks on his campaign.

    The reason I mention him isn't because I expect him to win - he has a superficial appeal to those only vaguely paying attention which can matter in mayoral campaigns but he's poor at taking good advice and while he has money, he'll spend it badly - but as a measure of how far a full-on conspiracy-theory Trumpite candidate can get.

    You wouldn't know how batty his ideas are from his website (even allowing for his free chickens policy)

    https://keithtordoff4mayor.co.uk/

    but he does give full vent on his Twitter account.

    He was formerly the selected Yorkshire Party candidate before we rapidly dumped him, not having done as much by way of background checks as we should have.

    I considered him for the PCC election* until I looked into him a bit more. The retweets suggest full-on conspiracy nut.

    I must admit I am easily bribed tempted by the three free chickens though :wink:

    *forget how I voted in the end
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    .

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.

    ..."They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    I notice you missed out this part of the description: ...those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing...

    The recent cases of bullying certainly don't qualify.

  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.
    That seems at odds with the likes of Nick Palmer opinion when Gove was to do with the environment or the law profession....both sectors initially were very hostile to him both for his politics and his reputation for engaging in political fights, but gave him credit for being knowledgeable, understanding and working towards sensible solutions.


    "They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    Yes, I remain a Gove fan, and think his evidence to the inquiry is entirely in keeping - he doesn't deny mistakes, doesn't blame others, apologises and suggests areas where they need to rethink what they do in future.

    I think he has a bias to challenging established opinion and taking on vested interests, and when established opinion is actually correct and the vested interests behave in the public interest, that could be a bad thing. But in general we are short of politicians who actually want to solve problems rather than find ways to avoid tackling them. Gove is the only Cabinet member I can think of (with the possible exception of Hunt) who is actually trying to do something useful - though I'll exempt the new appointees like Barclay who may yet prove to be doing something.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited November 2023

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    FFS,

    Nottinghamshire Police referred itself to the Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) the day after the attacks.

    The IOPC investigation will look at whether the actions of Calocane, of no fixed abode, were influenced by the presence of a police car that was following him.

    The IOPC said an officer driving the single-crewed vehicle had sight of the suspect driving the van for less than a minute before it hit pedestrians.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67552777

    The police were behind somebody for a minute, so that caused them to ram some old geezer and stabbed a loads of students. BS.

    That sounds to me to be in the same category as the two 15 & 16 year old teenagers in Ely, Cardiff who killed themselves on a Surron motorbike they had been given by the parents of one, after being followed by a police van.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12270879/Cardiff-e-bike-crash-Hundreds-mourners-line-streets-funeral-two-teenagers-killed.html
    The second might there could be some merit to investigating (it still seems like BS to me), but the first one, driving around early hours of the morning, knife in hand....its was the plod that made me do it, what crash, well yes, and the 6 innocent people that I then stabbed, all cos the fuzz were tailing me.
    I think there may be value in both investigations, but only if the officers are exonerated.

    Otherwise it is feeding delusion.

    In the Cardiff case, the parents handed the boys the means to play a game of Russian Roulette, which they subsequently lost. And are blaming the police rather than looking in the mirror.

    The really concerning factor for me is the self-delusion of the parents.
    That e-bike model is particularly insane. Its about as far away from the electronic version of a lawn-mower powered scooter as you can get. The law (and people's understanding) hasn't really kept up with the technology.
    Surrons can be 'derestricted' by snipping one loop of wire; then they do about 45-50mph typically.

    https://youtu.be/Ld_y116G4uY?t=110
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    .

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.

    ..."They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    I notice you missed out this part of the description: ...those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing...

    The recent cases of bullying certainly don't qualify.

    The eggheads at the Covid inquiry actually said Raab was much better than Boris in terms of knowledge and understanding of the material being presented. Admittedly a low bar, but it seemed as if they thought he did ok job when in temporary charge.
  • Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Question - does the Speccie also pick up your diversion to India tab? "I've got some ideas about Kashmir and I can do it on the way home. You ok to extend my expense allowance?"

    Genuine question. You're a travel writer so I assume they want you to travel. On a slightly (!) smaller budget with a slightly tighter commissioning editor / finance manager (me) I can already justify driving to and staying anywhere as long as I am filming.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning all.

    It's nice to see a United States Election thread.

    One issue which I have not seen mentioned here, which IMO may be pivotal, is a woman's right to abortion.

    There has been a series of amendments, defeats and ballot initiatives at State level clipping the wings, or overturning, the attempts to make abortion difficult or impossible to provide. And Democrats seem to be winning elections in those circumstances, and in some unexpected places. Was this a factor in the midterms?

    There are initiatives currently planned in around 9 states. The concept put forward is usually around "abortion until the time of fetus viability", which is very much along the lines of the principle here, and in many countries in Europe.

    AFAICS Trump is not backing a federal abortion ban.

    Here's a summary piece on Vox from the summer:
    https://www.vox.com/policy/23784409/abortion-ballot-measure-ohio-reproductive-rights-2024

    Does anyone with a more granular knowledge of USA politics than me have any comments?

    Abortion in many European countries, even Germany and Italy, is not allowed after 12 weeks which is more restricted than both here and many coastal US states
    I think you are misrepresenting the situation in both countries. Post-12 week abortion is allowed in Germany "in cases that the pregnancy poses an important danger to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman" (to quote Wikipedia) and in Italy "when the pregnancy or childbirth is a serious threat to the woman's life or when the pathological processes constitute a serious threat to the woman's physical or mental health" (ditto).
    In most cases though it isn't allowed beyond 12 weeks
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,263
    sarissa said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    I recommend the hill forts of Rajasthan as a group; start with the sleeper from New Delhi to Jodphur and take in the astonishing Jain temple at Ranakpur ( a bigger version of the Roslyn chapel, but in marble) then Udaipur and Kumbhalgarh Fort to Jaipur.
    Oooh. That sounds good. Thankyou
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    This time of year the south is amazing. About ten years ago I did Kochi to Madras/Chennai and it was stunning. PM me if you want any more info. Also Sri Lanka is good. Heading to Singapore myself on Thursday.


  • Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    NEW 🚨
    Wilko former family owner Lisa Wilkinson reveals to MPs that the previously debt free, furlough avoiding family business was in the middle of negotiating a secured loan from
    Macquarie Bank when the 2022 mini budget hit “hiking interest massively” making loan “infeasible”.

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1729462508656750934

    Yay! Another victory for "set the markets free" Trussism.
    More a victory for “I was running this perfectly sound business, when suddenly the insane debt leveraging that I’d engineered blew up in my face. Who could have seen that coming?”
    To me it borders on the criminal when companies undertake such approaches.
    I find it strange that a stress test isn’t part of the audit for large concerns.
    I'm not at all sure it should. These aren't deposit taking institutions, and their survival isn't crucial for overall financial stability. Businesses take risks, some take more risks than others, and both institutional lenders and investors just need to assess that for themselves.

    From the point of view of suppliers…

    The audit is supposed to tell people about the stability and viability of the business.
    Nah, the audit is for the shareholders as seen in Caparo v Dickman.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    Andy_JS said:

    Latest Canadian opinion poll.

    Nanos Research:

    Con 41%
    Lib 22%
    NDP 22%
    BQ 6%
    Green 6%
    PPC 2%

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_45th_Canadian_federal_election#Pre-campaign_period

    Given the Conservatives have been in Opposition for 8 years not that surprising they now have a clear poll lead again in Canada, Trudeau does need to squeeze defections to the NDP however. When he took over as Liberal leader the NDP were the main opposition not the Liberals to Harper's Conservative government
  • Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.
    That seems at odds with the likes of Nick Palmer opinion when Gove was to do with the environment or the law profession....both sectors initially were very hostile to him both for his politics and his reputation for engaging in political fights, but gave him credit for being knowledgeable, understanding and working towards sensible solutions.


    "They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    Yes, I remain a Gove fan, and think his evidence to the inquiry is entirely in keeping - he doesn't deny mistakes, doesn't blame others, apologises and suggests areas where they need to rethink what they do in future.

    I think he has a bias to challenging established opinion and taking on vested interests, and when established opinion is actually correct and the vested interests behave in the public interest, that could be a bad thing. But in general we are short of politicians who actually want to solve problems rather than find ways to avoid tackling them. Gove is the only Cabinet member I can think of (with the possible exception of Hunt) who is actually trying to do something useful - though I'll exempt the new appointees like Barclay who may yet prove to be doing something.
    "Taking on vested interests" doesn't really square with him being several feet up Rupert Murdoch's backside.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023
    'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    edited November 2023
    OT: Video clip of Lambeth Bridge from the South West approach.

    Chap booting then spinning out a £180k 600bhp Ferrari Portofino (I think).
    https://twitter.com/drewsnx/status/1729428012678983871

    What do you notice?

    (I have a list of 7 things. One of which is that the tweet comment is mistaken.)
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,248


    Faisal Islam
    @faisalislam
    NEW 🚨
    Wilko former family owner Lisa Wilkinson reveals to MPs that the previously debt free, furlough avoiding family business was in the middle of negotiating a secured loan from
    Macquarie Bank when the 2022 mini budget hit “hiking interest massively” making loan “infeasible”.

    https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1729462508656750934

    Yay! Another victory for "set the markets free" Trussism.
    More a victory for “I was running this perfectly sound business, when suddenly the insane debt leveraging that I’d engineered blew up in my face. Who could have seen that coming?”
    To me it borders on the criminal when companies undertake such approaches.
    I find it strange that a stress test isn’t part of the audit for large concerns.
    I'm not at all sure it should. These aren't deposit taking institutions, and their survival isn't crucial for overall financial stability. Businesses take risks, some take more risks than others, and both institutional lenders and investors just need to assess that for themselves.

    From the point of view of suppliers…

    The audit is supposed to tell people about the stability and viability of the business.
    Nah, the audit is for the shareholders as seen in Caparo v Dickman.
    Yes - at the moment. And all that it really tells you is that The Forms Are Being Obeyed.

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    One member of my family visited India in 1969 as a student. Since then, no-one. I wonder if that's typical.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,035
    edited November 2023

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.
    That seems at odds with the likes of Nick Palmer opinion when Gove was to do with the environment or the law profession....both sectors initially were very hostile to him both for his politics and his reputation for engaging in political fights, but gave him credit for being knowledgeable, understanding and working towards sensible solutions.


    "They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    Yes, I remain a Gove fan, and think his evidence to the inquiry is entirely in keeping - he doesn't deny mistakes, doesn't blame others, apologises and suggests areas where they need to rethink what they do in future.

    I think he has a bias to challenging established opinion and taking on vested interests, and when established opinion is actually correct and the vested interests behave in the public interest, that could be a bad thing. But in general we are short of politicians who actually want to solve problems rather than find ways to avoid tackling them.
    Maybe, but the trouble is that people like Gove (or Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband), who think they're very intelligent and can master complicated areas of policy by reading a couple of articles in the Spectator or the Guardian, have a bias towards technocratic fixes that cause more problems than they solve.

    (I've never worked with Gove myself, though a relative who is still a civil servant did. She says he's a very nice man to work for - considerate and affable).
  • 'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023
    Bloody hell...

    BBC News - David Fuller: NHS failures enabled killer to abuse bodies - report

    There, he systematically abused at least 101 corpses, the youngest of which was aged nine and the oldest 100 years old. At his trial, the court heard how he would visit "the same bodies repeatedly".

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-67553332
  • Andy_JS said:

    One member of my family visited India in 1969 as a student. Since then, no-one. I wonder if that's typical.

    Its not very typical no! But completely fine too. Hope that helps.
  • 'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
  • BarnesianBarnesian Posts: 8,580
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Skiing above Ladakh? Bit of a challenge.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    I see that GB News and the Daily Mail are claiming that Nigel Farage's airtime on I'm a Celebrity is being restricted.

    Because that is what you do. You pay someone £1.5m to appear and then don't show them. Honestly.

    From the little bits that I have seen he is doing ok. The Brexit arguments I have seen haven't really been awful for him as the other contestants haven't really let him get a word in edgeways and haven't really put up any good arguments (they are not skilled politicians) and he has pretty much let it ride.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    Opinium

    Labour 42% (+2)
    Conservatives 26% (-1)
    Lib Dems 11% (-1)
    SNP 3% (n/c)
    Greens 7% (n/c)
    Reform 8% (-1)

    22-24 Nov fieldwork
  • 'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
    To everything you said.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023

    'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
    To everything you said.
    Its absolutely true. The elite of the game also have "ball" fitting, where the manufacturers provide balls with slightly different characteristics for them to choose from. Where as weekend warrior buys the sleeve of pro v1s they aren't the same.

    I have a friend who was until recently on the tour. Having a go with his sticks (even though not custom fit), its day and night.

    Same with all sports Those bats Stokes uses, you can't buy them. They are hand made with the best of the best materials.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    MattW said:

    Good morning all.

    It's nice to see a United States Election thread.

    One issue which I have not seen mentioned here, which IMO may be pivotal, is a woman's right to abortion.

    There has been a series of amendments, defeats and ballot initiatives at State level clipping the wings, or overturning, the attempts to make abortion difficult or impossible to provide. And Democrats seem to be winning elections in those circumstances, and in some unexpected places. Was this a factor in the midterms?

    There are initiatives currently planned in around 9 states. The concept put forward is usually around "abortion until the time of fetus viability", which is very much along the lines of the principle here, and in many countries in Europe.

    AFAICS Trump is not backing a federal abortion ban.

    Here's a summary piece on Vox from the summer:
    https://www.vox.com/policy/23784409/abortion-ballot-measure-ohio-reproductive-rights-2024

    Does anyone with a more granular knowledge of USA politics than me have any comments?

    Abortion in many European countries, even Germany and Italy, is not allowed after 12 weeks which is more restricted than both here and many coastal US states
    I think you are misrepresenting the situation in both countries. Post-12 week abortion is allowed in Germany "in cases that the pregnancy poses an important danger to the physical or mental health of the pregnant woman" (to quote Wikipedia) and in Italy "when the pregnancy or childbirth is a serious threat to the woman's life or when the pathological processes constitute a serious threat to the woman's physical or mental health" (ditto).
    In most cases though it isn't allowed beyond 12 weeks
    Abortion after 12 weeks is allowed, in certain circumstances. Of those who want an abortion then (which is the relevant denominator), I don't know whether most get one or not.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,783
    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.
    That seems at odds with the likes of Nick Palmer opinion when Gove was to do with the environment or the law profession....both sectors initially were very hostile to him both for his politics and his reputation for engaging in political fights, but gave him credit for being knowledgeable, understanding and working towards sensible solutions.


    "They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    Yes, I remain a Gove fan, and think his evidence to the inquiry is entirely in keeping - he doesn't deny mistakes, doesn't blame others, apologises and suggests areas where they need to rethink what they do in future.

    I think he has a bias to challenging established opinion and taking on vested interests, and when established opinion is actually correct and the vested interests behave in the public interest, that could be a bad thing. But in general we are short of politicians who actually want to solve problems rather than find ways to avoid tackling them.
    Maybe, but the trouble is that people like Gove (or Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband), who think they're very intelligent and can master complicated areas of policy by reading a couple of articles in the Spectator or the Guardian, have a bias towards technocratic fixes that cause more problems than they solve.

    (I've never worked with Gove myself, though a relative who is still a civil servant did. She says he's a very nice man to work for - considerate and affable).
    I chatted to him at a count once and he was very pleasant indeed (and knew I was on the other side). He also did a cracking acceptance speech which really did seem off the cuff. I did also see him lose his temper at the same count. One of our lot must have said or done something and he spoke to one of our female members quite aggressively demanding to know who the person was. Luckily she was someone who could give it out as well as take it (she scared me) and told him where to get off. I don't know what the offence was that caused the outrage so I have no idea how merited the anger was.
  • Andy_JS said:

    One member of my family visited India in 1969 as a student. Since then, no-one. I wonder if that's typical.

    In 1969 you could take a bus, with comfort stops in Baghdad, Teheran, Kabul and Karachi (among others).
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405

    Nigelb said:

    .

    Fishing said:

    viewcode said:

    Has the weaselly little shit said whether he's part of that body of judgment?


    Leaving aside the "weaselly little shit" bit, it's slightly sad to see Gove reduced to this. I don't approve of him or his policies but I think he was better than the times he found himself in, and one of the problems with the present lobotomised Conservative Party is that they have no real place for him
    I don't agree.

    From my civil servant days there were roughly three types of minister:

    - those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing it. These were once common, but are now vanishingly rare. They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with.
    - those who only cared about publicity, ignored policy debates and left everything to civil servants. These are much more common. Grant Shapps and Matt Hancock are examples of this type. They are OK.
    - those who thought they knew everything better than any experts and would make stypid decisions because they didn't. That's the most dangerous type. Gordon Brown is perhaps the classic example, Ed Miliband another.

    [There's also meant to be a fourth kind, those who aren't up to the job, know it, and are just mouthpieces of their civil servants. I never worked for any of those though].

    Gove is very much the ignoramus know-it-all type. He has terrible judgement and unfortunately seems to think he is a genius, or at least can come out with the correct answer once given all the facts, and beat those who have been working in the area for decades. Which is about as dangerous a combination as you can get in a decision-maker.

    ..."They can be very demanding and even rude, but overall you don't mind it because they are intellectually challenging and great to work with." - Apparently this is now deemed bullying and so not allowed by ministers, and will get you sacked, even if the civil servants are the ones disobeying their bosses requests.
    I notice you missed out this part of the description: ...those who were experienced in their subject, knew what they wanted to do and set about doing...

    The recent cases of bullying certainly don't qualify.

    The eggheads at the Covid inquiry actually said Raab was much better than Boris in terms of knowledge and understanding of the material being presented. Admittedly a low bar, but it seemed as if they thought he did ok job when in temporary charge.
    Chimes with my impression at the time. It was the moment during the first wave when we seemed to have a sensible leadership.

    Raab also seems to have been a victim of being a hard taskmaster, with very little substance to the allegations against him.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    "It’s not ‘far right’ to want curbs on immigration
    Public feeling about an uncontrolled influx is being shown in Europe and Tories are at risk too
    Melanie Phillips"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-not-far-right-to-want-curbs-on-immigration-h28v25lpv
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,070
    The lovely Tom Scott (pbuh) on truth, YouTube and parasocial relationships.

    "There is No Algorithm for Truth - with Tom Scott", The Royal Institute, Oct 24, 2019, 1hr, see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leX541Dr2rU
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,405
    vanilla purge
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051

    vanilla purge

    Is that when you don't eat any solids for 36 hours, just drink a lot of vanilla tea?
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,572

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What kind of fucking idiot threatens legal action over words said on here??

    That’s grounds for banning. That should not happen in our pub

    Taking inspiration from Irish hate speech laws reforms?
    BANG out of order. Absolutely not in the spirit of PB. We don’t doxx each other. We don’t threaten actual violence on each other. We don’t say the C word. We don’t (overly) insult the mods

    There aren’t many rules on PB but there are a few and they keep the site generally civil and much more fun than 97% of forums

    Another unwritten rule is, surely, don’t send private messages threatening legal action. FFS - it’s like inviting the cops into our pub to collar @HYUFD for wanting to invade Scotland

    Not impressed
    Another unwritten rule that we've generally adhered to is not calling named people anything that could get the site sued. If we want to take the risk we should comment on X or our own websites. Using a pseudonym to (arguably) libel public figures on someone else's website is bad practice, even if one thinks one could defend the case in court. It isn't the poster who will get sued, it's Mike, and he really has enough to put up with at present without having to worry about that.
    That's true, but care needs taking the other way. Calling Corby an anti-Semite could potentiall get the site sued - does that mean the potential threat means we should *not* call him that?

    And how about the utterly ridiculous story about Cameron and the pig? It is untrue and nasty (for all involved), but lots of people still refer to it.

    There are obvious cases where care needs taking, for instance on commenting about ongoing court cases, or the MacAlpine smears from the left.

    And there are many other cases. As with all free speech stuff, the question becomes what is fair comment and what is not.

    Then again, I'm most certainly not a lawyer...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    Supreme Court to consider ‘quadrillion-dollar question’ in major tax case
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4323743-supreme-court-moore-tax-case/

    Fairly likely to be another example of the court making what are essentially political decisions without and firm basis in the actual constitition.
    And, purely by coincidence, it's likely to benefit only the wealthy.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,523
    Fishing said:



    Maybe, but the trouble is that people like Gove (or Gordon Brown or Ed Miliband), who think they're very intelligent and can master complicated areas of policy by reading a couple of articles in the Spectator or the Guardian, have a bias towards technocratic fixes that cause more problems than they solve.

    (I've never worked with Gove myself, though a relative who is still a civil servant did. She says he's a very nice man to work for - considerate and affable).

    Yes, perhaps re techie solutions. But human skills are important too, and sheer determination to tackle stuff. To take a practical example: there is a long-standing controversy over meat from animals who are slaughtered by bleeding while still conscious, in order to respect the beliefs of most orthodox Muslims and Jews. Some slaughterhouses can't be bothered to have two different production lines, so they use non-stun slaughter for all the animals, the result being that people with no religious views who dislike the practice inadvertently get the meat from it anyway. Animal welfare groups want to ban the practice (as in Netherlands).

    Politicians normally try to avoid the issue because of the obvious sensitivities and because it's quite obscure for most people - why take on the hassle? Gove called a meeting of representatives of the religious groups, slaughterhouses and NGOs representing animal welfare to see if we could find a way through, tentatively looking at banning the sale of non-slaughter meat except to specialised butchers' shops serving the religious communities, or at least to label the products clearly.

    He was moved to another Department before he could do it, so the issue remains unresolved. But I admired his willingness to have a go, politely listening to all sides and exploring possible ways forward.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,067
    If Sunil ever makes it to Korea.

    RAS Korea offers visit to railway museum
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=363960
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court to consider ‘quadrillion-dollar question’ in major tax case
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4323743-supreme-court-moore-tax-case/

    Fairly likely to be another example of the court making what are essentially political decisions without and firm basis in the actual constitition.
    And, purely by coincidence, it's likely to benefit only the wealthy.

    The 16th amendment enables the Federal government to tax incomes, the question in this case is does stocks or bonds 'unrealised' income count for tax purposes
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023
    Probably bollocks to jump to the conclusion given how disorganised the current government are, but still..

    It is highly unusual to not have any plans for an event the UK is meant to be hosting in, at the latest, six months time. The last EPC took place in October in Spain, with the venue and date announced in February, eight months before hand.

    https://order-order.com/2023/11/28/will-uks-hosting-of-european-political-community-in-may-clash-with-election/
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What kind of fucking idiot threatens legal action over words said on here??

    That’s grounds for banning. That should not happen in our pub

    Taking inspiration from Irish hate speech laws reforms?
    BANG out of order. Absolutely not in the spirit of PB. We don’t doxx each other. We don’t threaten actual violence on each other. We don’t say the C word. We don’t (overly) insult the mods

    There aren’t many rules on PB but there are a few and they keep the site generally civil and much more fun than 97% of forums

    Another unwritten rule is, surely, don’t send private messages threatening legal action. FFS - it’s like inviting the cops into our pub to collar @HYUFD for wanting to invade Scotland

    Not impressed
    Another unwritten rule that we've generally adhered to is not calling named people anything that could get the site sued. If we want to take the risk we should comment on X or our own websites. Using a pseudonym to (arguably) libel public figures on someone else's website is bad practice, even if one thinks one could defend the case in court. It isn't the poster who will get sued, it's Mike, and he really has enough to put up with at present without having to worry about that.
    Nobody is getting sued:
    Can't identify the complainant from the opinion posted
    Can't demonstrate that the opinion isn't honestly held

    As Michael Jackson once sang, "Jew Me, Sue Me"
  • MexicanpeteMexicanpete Posts: 28,368
    edited November 2023
    ...
    Andy_JS said:

    "It’s not ‘far right’ to want curbs on immigration
    Public feeling about an uncontrolled influx is being shown in Europe and Tories are at risk too
    Melanie Phillips"

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/its-not-far-right-to-want-curbs-on-immigration-h28v25lpv

    It was all going so well until "Melanie Phillips" who is of course to the, shall we say, enthusiastic "right ".
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023
    The Israeli military says in the last hour three explosive devices were detonated close to its troops in two locations in the north of the Gaza Strip, which it says violates the "framework of the operational pause”.

    It says that in one of the locations Israeli troops were shot at, and they responded with fire.

    "A number of soldiers were lightly injured during the incidents," they said.

    It adds that the “troops were located in positions as per the framework of the operational pause”. The BBC has not verified what happened.

    ---

    Hamas blames Israel for clash in northern Gaza

    Hamas has responded to Israel’s claims of a clash in northern Gaza, saying there has been a "friction" in the field. It happened due to the "enemy's clear violation of the ceasefire deal," they said....seems to missing something here....

    And we again start from the premise, IDF could be lying, Hamas, well we will report the terrorists words, who regularly lie, with uncritical validity.
  • Sean_FSean_F Posts: 37,347
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689
    India - I have been to Mumbai, Gujarat, Ahmedabad - and each place was revolting. Why anyone would want to willingly travel there is beyond me....
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129
    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
  • 'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
    To everything you said.
    Its absolutely true. The elite of the game also have "ball" fitting, where the manufacturers provide balls with slightly different characteristics for them to choose from. Where as weekend warrior buys the sleeve of pro v1s they aren't the same.

    I have a friend who was until recently on the tour. Having a go with his sticks (even though not custom fit), its day and night.

    Same with all sports Those bats Stokes uses, you can't buy them. They are hand made with the best of the best materials.
    No, the components the Tour use will be the same as for the bog-standard builds. If the manufacturers had some killer-spec components they'd definitely be flogging those to Joe Public and making a killing. Why wouldn't they? Most of their money is made through retail; they have to pay the pros, so why give them anything vastly superior hidden from everyone else? (By the way, I speak as an industry insider.)
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023

    'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
    To everything you said.
    Its absolutely true. The elite of the game also have "ball" fitting, where the manufacturers provide balls with slightly different characteristics for them to choose from. Where as weekend warrior buys the sleeve of pro v1s they aren't the same.

    I have a friend who was until recently on the tour. Having a go with his sticks (even though not custom fit), its day and night.

    Same with all sports Those bats Stokes uses, you can't buy them. They are hand made with the best of the best materials.
    No, the components the Tour use will be the same as for the bog-standard builds. If the manufacturers had some killer-spec components they'd definitely be flogging those to Joe Public and making a killing. Why wouldn't they? Most of their money is made through retail; they have to pay the pros, so why give them anything vastly superior hidden from everyone else? (By the way, I speak as an industry insider.)
    Katsuhiro Miura and his family-owned Miura Golf have been shaping hand-forged clubs for three decades in Himeji, Japan, where craftsmen once pounded steel into samurai swords.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/sports/golf/17irons.html

    He has made the irons of Tiger Woods, Goosen, Olazabal, the list goes on and on.

    The same is true for cricket bats, tennis rackets etc etc etc. They aren't massed produced, they are hand crafted with materials that are of the highest grade. That is a million miles away from the mass produced equipment for retail.

    A set of pro's irons can easily cost £25k+ to make. Joe public can't afford that.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    You're ignoring two key words in the phrase "anyone it thinks is powerless".
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,984
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    I probably missed lots of replies in the interim but I had a very interesting time a few years ago in the Shekawati region of Rajasthan. Properly off the beaten track (I was staying in a mud hut with no hot running water run by a man with a most exotic moustache and turban), but each village was filled with remarkable merchants' houses called Havelis which were all ornately decorated with detailed frescoes. As were many of their public buildings and even wells. I've never seen anything like it before or since outside a few renaissance churches in Italy.

    The village I stayed in was Nawalgarh.
  • Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
  • What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    Where does the bizarre fantasy come from that Trump would instantly become an all-powerful dictator upon reelection? Have you forgotten what Trump as President was actually like?
  • What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    I have been on a course in Aberdeen the last couple of days so not been watching PB. Who is making threats of suits - or is that question verging into dangerous territory?
  • Penddu2Penddu2 Posts: 689

    What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    Retract that statement immediately with a public apology else I will have no option but to seek remedy through legal channels.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,138
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    Supreme Court to consider ‘quadrillion-dollar question’ in major tax case
    https://thehill.com/homenews/4323743-supreme-court-moore-tax-case/

    Fairly likely to be another example of the court making what are essentially political decisions without and firm basis in the actual constitition.
    And, purely by coincidence, it's likely to benefit only the wealthy.

    The 16th amendment enables the Federal government to tax incomes, the question in this case is does stocks or bonds 'unrealised' income count for tax purposes
    That piece won't let me read it. Try here:
    https://archive.ph/P1CDX
  • What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    I have been on a course in Aberdeen the last couple of days so not been watching PB. Who is making threats of suits - or is that question verging into dangerous territory?
    The key word is "threats".

    Hope you brought your thermal keks with you. Its brassic out there!
  • Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    I don't think Biden is the only person capable of opposing the Baby. But the Democrats seem to be unwilling to upset the old man and choose someone else.

    Biden should take a lesson from LBJ and stand aside.
  • Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    I think I might be biased because I was born in Kerala, but Kochi (Cochin) is highly recommended. Also Mysore in next-door Karnataka, and Madurai in Tamil Nadu (tho I haven't been to the latter in a long time).
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    If Sunil ever makes it to Korea.

    RAS Korea offers visit to railway museum
    https://m.koreatimes.co.kr/pages/article.asp?newsIdx=363960

    There's a train station near the border where you can buy a ticket to Pyongyang, on the basis that reunification is only a matter of time. The tickets are valid for whenever that happens.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    What kind of fucking idiot threatens legal action over words said on here??

    That’s grounds for banning. That should not happen in our pub

    Taking inspiration from Irish hate speech laws reforms?
    BANG out of order. Absolutely not in the spirit of PB. We don’t doxx each other. We don’t threaten actual violence on each other. We don’t say the C word. We don’t (overly) insult the mods

    There aren’t many rules on PB but there are a few and they keep the site generally civil and much more fun than 97% of forums
    b
    Another unwritten rule is, surely, don’t send private messages threatening legal action. FFS - it’s like inviting the cops into our pub to collar @HYUFD for wanting to invade Scotland

    Not impressed
    Another unwritten rule that we've generally adhered to is not calling named people anything that could get the site sued. If we want to take the risk we should comment on X or our own websites. Using a pseudonym to (arguably) libel public figures on someone else's website is bad practice, even if one thinks one could defend the case in court. It isn't the poster who will get sued, it's Mike, and he really has enough to put up with at present without having to worry about that.
    Nobody is getting sued:
    Can't identify the complainant from the opinion posted
    Can't demonstrate that the opinion isn't honestly held

    As Michael Jackson once sang, "Jew Me, Sue Me"
    Secretary Nimzicki: "I'm not Jewish."
    Julius Levinson: "Nobody's perfect!"
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    Where does the bizarre fantasy come from that Trump would instantly become an all-powerful dictator upon reelection? Have you forgotten what Trump as President was actually like?
    In particular, how does he get past the ‘two terms and no more’ rule? He’ll be a pain the fundament to the USA’s allies, no doubt, and the country will be in a worse position when he leaves than when he started, but as a consequence he might just destroy the present Republican Party.
  • FrancisUrquhartFrancisUrquhart Posts: 81,987
    edited November 2023

    'R&A set to announce new ball rule before year end' - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/golf/67556411

    This is such nonsense in the sense of the pros don't play with the same clubs as weekend warriors. The top players irons (regardless of brand) are often hand made by this one Japanese bloke. Even the regular pros sticks are made to a much higher standard, they cost £10k's to make a set and not made for public availability.

    Er, no.
    Er no what?
    To everything you said.
    Its absolutely true. The elite of the game also have "ball" fitting, where the manufacturers provide balls with slightly different characteristics for them to choose from. Where as weekend warrior buys the sleeve of pro v1s they aren't the same.

    I have a friend who was until recently on the tour. Having a go with his sticks (even though not custom fit), its day and night.

    Same with all sports Those bats Stokes uses, you can't buy them. They are hand made with the best of the best materials.
    No, the components the Tour use will be the same as for the bog-standard builds. If the manufacturers had some killer-spec components they'd definitely be flogging those to Joe Public and making a killing. Why wouldn't they? Most of their money is made through retail; they have to pay the pros, so why give them anything vastly superior hidden from everyone else? (By the way, I speak as an industry insider.)
    Katsuhiro Miura and his family-owned Miura Golf have been shaping hand-forged clubs for three decades in Himeji, Japan, where craftsmen once pounded steel into samurai swords.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/17/sports/golf/17irons.html

    He has made the irons of Tiger Woods, Goosen, Olazabal, the list goes on and on.

    The same is true for cricket bats, tennis rackets etc etc etc. They aren't massed produced, they are hand crafted with materials that are of the highest grade. That is a million miles away from the mass produced equipment for retail.

    A set of pro's irons can easily cost £25k+ to make. Joe public can't afford that.
    As for motivation it is very simple. You want your sponsored player to be the winner. Paying $25k for a set of hand man Japanese irons is peanuts compared to the marketing of having Tiger Woods win a major. So there is no expense spared on the top professionals, they get whatever they want. Its all marketing and promotion.

    That isn't the same to the consumer. They have an upper budget on what they can and will spend, and you need to produce in massive volume. Tolerances and materials are much wider. You can't have an individual measuring loft to fractions of degree for 1000s of sets of clubs (where as the pros clubs are made this way).

    Its like Mercedes and Ferrari have F1 cars with custom built components, each car costs $10 million. They are in F1 to market and promote their engineering skills. That isn't the car you sell to the public, not even close. Now does some of that research trickle down, absolutely.

    PXG found this out very quickly, when their crazy owner said he would make $25k sets for the public and had to pivot as it was burning huge amounts of money. Now pivoted to normal price ranges for their clubs.
  • @Leon

    For what little it is worth, I can personally recommend Jaipur. You won't often visit a pink city.

    It is spectacularly beautiful, and the natives are friendly. You can buy good cheap jewellery there. I was astonished to find that when I got home and had the ring I bought there valued, it was worth a lot more than I paid for it.

    Try it. It's fun.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    Is anonymity on the internet really a good thing?
  • TOPPINGTOPPING Posts: 42,957
    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    No one is doubting the well-intentioned naivety and cluelessness of the Left.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,549

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    I don't believe any of that. If Trump wins, he'll serve 4 years as president, and then everything will go back to normal afterwards.
  • Andy_JS said:

    What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    Is anonymity on the internet really a good thing?
    Hell yes!
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,908
    edited November 2023

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    I don't think Biden is the only person capable of opposing the Baby. But the Democrats seem to be unwilling to upset the old man and choose someone else.

    Biden should take a lesson from LBJ and stand aside.
    LBJ did stand aside and his VP Humphrey then lost the 1968 election to Nixon, even though LBJ had won in 1964 by a landslide.

    In any case whether Trump is convicted and jailed or not of his criminal charges is far more likely to impact the election result than whoever the Democratic nominee is
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    You're ignoring two key words in the phrase "anyone it thinks is powerless".
    Well you have to go with what you think. We all do that don't we?
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,618
    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    You're ignoring two key words in the phrase "anyone it thinks is powerless".
    Well you have to go with what you think. We all do that don't we?
    Yes, but you have to recognise that what you think is only an opinion and that you could be mistaken.
  • Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    When Trump says he's America First, he means it - probably unintentionally and unknowingly in the historical sense, but accurately all the same.

    He's an isolationist. He will probably withdraw from NATO but even if he doesn't, he will functionally withdraw; he will make clear that he doesn't feel bound by Article V. He will give Putin free run while trying to extract trade quid pro quos (of which they'll rather more quids than quos; he's never been a good negotiator).

    He certainly won't do anything about Iran, though he might make noises. He likes making noises. But he's scared of violence, which he doesn't understand so doesn't use it. We know that from last time, when he did have good cause to attack Iran (on a limited basis), and wimped out at the last minute.

    Worth noting re Mussolini, the two didn't form any kind of alliance for 7 years - until France was on its knees in 1940 and Hitler was already master of northern Europe.
  • NEW THREAD

  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,802
    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    Kerala if you want warmth and beaches. Nepal (not India, I know) if you want adventure.
  • boulayboulay Posts: 5,486
    edited November 2023
    TimS said:

    Leon said:

    Question for PB Travel Boffins

    I have a spare week en route home to London from the Far East

    I fancy a week in India

    But where?

    I’ve done these places: Mumbai, Agra, Varanasi, Delhi, Gujarat (and the lions), Ranthambore (and the tigers), and Kolkata

    The rest is a mystery to me, I need to know more. I’d love to to to the far north - Sikkim or Ladakh but I suspect it’s way too cold in December

    Where do people recommend? Goa? Kerala? Darjeeling and all that? Kashmir? Jaipur? I’d like something really quite exotic. I don’t mind a challenge

    I probably missed lots of replies in the interim but I had a very interesting time a few years ago in the Shekawati region of Rajasthan. Properly off the beaten track (I was staying in a mud hut with no hot running water run by a man with a most exotic moustache and turban), but each village was filled with remarkable merchants' houses called Havelis which were all ornately decorated with detailed frescoes. As were many of their public buildings and even wells. I've never seen anything like it before or since outside a few renaissance churches in Italy.

    The village I stayed in was Nawalgarh.
    I did two weeks on horse through a chunk of Rajasthan and also was taken by the beauty of the Havelis. Didn’t really know of their existence beforehand. Took in Delhi, Jaipur, Jodphur , Amer for the Amber Fort etc but found the small towns and villages extraordinary for many weird things. The piles of waste at the ends of each village being snaffled by animals, the women working their arses off and the chaps seeming to by lying in the shade on daybeds whatever time you rode by.

    Started at a place called Dundlod in Nawalgarh district where the local noble had his fort we stayed at but kept his own colonial era cavalry regiment going with regular displays and practice of tent pegging. I think he found the Raj era harder to let go of than any Briton.

    Also went to the Pushkar Mela so was surrounded by a hundred thousand or so camels and horses for sale at the festival. A special scent I shall not forget.

    The strange thing about the trip is that when riding from town to village through fields and semi-desert I could have been any Englishman taking the same trip and seeing the same scenes as one 250 years earlier, 150 years or 50 years earlier as there were very few signs of the modern world where I was.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 11,051
    Andy_JS said:

    Sean_F said:

    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2023/11/28/no_really_biden_is_in_trouble_against_trump.html

    This is a must-read from Sean Trende. It does not make happy reading.

    Its America's funeral. They've had a good run.

    More interesting is what President Trump does after winning the election. Yes we know he will arrest all of the opposition politicians and we know the GOP will implement laws to subjugate women. But you get what you vote for.

    The unknown is his foreign policy. Will he join with Putin (as Mussolini joined with Hitler) to try and impose a far right alt-fact hegemony across the west? Will he nuke Iran or tell them how much he admires how they deal with dissidents?

    Everything seems possible. Nuclear War. Russia Uber Alles. The end of NATO. What happened when an embittered man baby is restored to power and vows never to lose it again?

    That the only person capable of opposing him is Biddy Biden tells you everything you need to know about how broken America is. "They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into, I say, Let Them Crash!"
    I don't believe any of that. If Trump wins, he'll serve 4 years as president, and then everything will go back to normal afterwards.
    Things haven't reverted to normal after his first term in office.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    You're ignoring two key words in the phrase "anyone it thinks is powerless".
    Well you have to go with what you think. We all do that don't we?
    Yes, but you have to recognise that what you think is only an opinion and that you could be mistaken.
    An attitude I recommend. Wish we saw more of it.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,129
    TOPPING said:

    kinabalu said:

    TOPPING said:

    As for why the fuck anyone cares, it all comes down to the powerful vs the powerless dynamic we have discussed.

    In particular the left allies itself with anyone it thinks is powerless, regardless of any of that entity's other failings.

    The left championed Israel in its early years of existence as it was perceived to be weak and now champions Hamas for the same reasons.

    Are you accusing the Left of always being on the side of the powerless?

    I'm suing. Where should I serve papers please?
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

    No one is doubting the well-intentioned naivety and cluelessness of the Left.
    That's a phrase normally advanced to excuse bad intentions.
  • What is it now, 2 hours since someone threatened to sue someone else? 3?

    Poor show everyone.

    I have been on a course in Aberdeen the last couple of days so not been watching PB. Who is making threats of suits - or is that question verging into dangerous territory?
    The key word is "threats".

    Hope you brought your thermal keks with you. Its brassic out there!
    Indeed. But lots of beer is apparently a great insulator. :)
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,998
    I like Our Gracious Host's little joke: New Hampshire is "a very costly state in which to campaign This is not a state where the campaign can rely on scheduled flights and a lot of money is going to be used on private jets."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Hampshire

    On a more serious point: Private airplanes are one of the risks that many US politicians face. Some examples:
    https://www.cnn.com/2013/08/20/us/american-politician-plane-fatalities-fast-facts/index.html

  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,424

    @Leon

    For what little it is worth, I can personally recommend Jaipur. You won't often visit a pink city.

    It is spectacularly beautiful, and the natives are friendly. You can buy good cheap jewellery there. I was astonished to find that when I got home and had the ring I bought there valued, it was worth a lot more than I paid for it.

    Try it. It's fun.

    It’s in my memory that when we went to Jaipur …… and I agree about the beauty of the ‘pink city’ …… the children crowded round us in the street wanting not money, but pencils! Something with which to write!

    Incidentally a relative went to Thailand, and afterwards told me he could never go again; couldn’t cope with the poverty. I’ve strongly advised him against visiting India!

    Would I go again; certainly, if I could.
This discussion has been closed.