Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
I've read the article and I suspect Dan might have been on the snakebite prior to writing his piece. If he wasn't, perhaps he should have been.
If Rishi hangs on until a year January he might be in with a shout. I am not sure "small boats" trumps the current cost of living crisis in the event of a "snap election".
Although I suppose from Suella's point of view the sooner the Tories are left as a right-wing rump in the HoC, the sooner she becomes LOTO and the sooner she can tear down the Lulu Lytle wallpaper.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
Oddly don’t get the same at rugby and home and away fans mingle happily.
Defenders of football need to ask why Bath vs Gloucester can have fans mixed, drinking together but Portsmouth vs Southampton cannot. Ther3 is something ‘off’ with football. The behaviour towards refs at both the highest level and sadly at kids level too.
I love both sports, but there is a wilful blindness about the bad aspects of football from those in and around the game.
The police have been reporting how post COVID trouble at lower league football has got a lot worse, even at clubs who have no history of it e.g. my team Crewe Alex.
Is this on the scale of the bad old days, absolutely not, but its on the rise and at places that don't have the resources to combat it.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
Oddly don’t get the same at rugby and home and away fans mingle happily.
Defenders of football need to ask why Bath vs Gloucester can have fans mixed, drinking together but Portsmouth vs Southampton cannot. Ther3 is something ‘off’ with football. The behaviour towards refs at both the highest level and sadly at kids level too.
I love both sports, but there is a wilful blindness about the bad aspects of football from those in and around the game.
The police have been reporting how post COVID trouble at lower league football has got a lot worse, even at clubs who have no history of it e.g. my team Crewe Alex.
How many arrests in Gloucester on Friday night? Thinking about it I don’t even recall seeing the police when I watch Bath at the rec.
So the clock ticks down to freedom of speech and freedom of assembly being denounced as anti-semitic?
I didn't support either side yesterday. One lot overwhelmingly went to make a peace/pro-Palestinian demonstation. Naive but I understand the first part at least. One lot went to have a ruck - preferably with brown folk but the Police would do. This second group also tried to storm and occupy the Cenotaph on Armistice Day.
The regular break-away by 100 or so nutters long after the main demo again happened and the Police handled it - as they are well used to handling it. Michael Gove was shouted at - which is OK - and chased and jostled - which is definitely not. However, he fared a lot better than Suella or Mr Sunak would have done if they had wandered in among Robinson's EDL mob.
I have real sympathies for the Jewish community - whether they are supportive of the Israeli Govt or not. We should be very careful about the route of marches and about protecting potential targets of violent anti-semitism. However, there is a large Russian emigre community in London. Were we to ban peace demos for fear of offending them? Ban the Ukrainian (or the Russian) flag. Should we ban display of the Palestinian and Israeli flags?
All very difficult. All needing a level and talented brain as Home Secretary. Rather than someone pouring petrol on the flames and trying to whip up a riot.
Yesterday the Met Police did a great job. Frankly what I've seen of the peace demo was less violence than at a Darlington/Hartlepool derby back in the day. The Mail front page is a fine example of barrel-scraping. They were set up for front page pictures of London in flames.
Meanwhile - as ever - don't believe all you see on Twitter (sometimes known as X) and don't believe what certain people cull off twitter to write on here!
'From the river to the sea. We will be free' is first and foremost a brilliant slogan. It is little wonder there is such a battle going on over it's use. Apart from it's catchiness and conjuring up notes of MLK and Mandela it also cuts to the heart of the problem.
Can Israel continue to exist as an apartheid state or will it be forced give equality to all racial grouping under its domination?
It's an incredibly slippery and dangerous slogan because it's so ambiguous about what "free" means. Free of Jews or politically free? It can be used to call from anything from a civilised, multi-faith society to a second Holocaust.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
There’s a massive difference between Grass roots soccer and soccer at the FIFA level which is exactly as JJ says.
At the high level, football requires complex and very expensive policing to prevent riots. In many, many countries.
Other mass spectator sports require no where near this level of policing.
Was working at a conference all day yesterday fighting the good fight for Justice, or something. Carrying on this morning with a talk on ballistics, hopefully with no discharges. But from what I have been able to glean it looks like the police called this right. No major disruption to the public peace. Judgment of both the Home Secretary and the PM left looking highly suspect. Quelle suprise.
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
A friend of mine in the Marines told me that in Portsmouth men go to pubs just to pick fights with the off-duty Marines there. Apparently, there's a sub-culture where it's considered cool to have beaten up a Commando. And when the police are called they'll almost always give the Marines a pass and arrest the others, many of whom they know well, and some of whom have surprisingly high-powered jobs during the week.
If the Pompey filth locked up every bootie who got into a punch up the Corps would consist of the band and their goat mascot.
All else being equal a random chav will get his shit pushed in by an RM as they are usually as fit as fuck, have the pain threshold of a housebrick and have zero notion of fighting fair. They also hunt in packs.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
Oddly don’t get the same at rugby and home and away fans mingle happily.
Defenders of football need to ask why Bath vs Gloucester can have fans mixed, drinking together but Portsmouth vs Southampton cannot. Ther3 is something ‘off’ with football. The behaviour towards refs at both the highest level and sadly at kids level too.
I love both sports, but there is a wilful blindness about the bad aspects of football from those in and around the game.
The police have been reporting how post COVID trouble at lower league football has got a lot worse, even at clubs who have no history of it e.g. my team Crewe Alex.
How many arrests in Gloucester on Friday night? Thinking about it I don’t even recall seeing the police when I watch Bath at the rec.
I have been and stood in the "infamous" shed at Gloucester. They certainly liberal with the heckling, but it never is threatening of anything more than a brutal stinging comment. It is a totally different vibe.
Following from the last thread, apparently Nige is going on that stupid I'm a Celeb show. I am sure the producers and the public will have lots of fun making him eat Kangaroo bollocks and all that nonsense. Not exactly what a potential leader of a political party does.
Farage is a general 10 or 12/1 shot which might be value if he is as popular as GB News thinks he is. I've never watched the show so have no idea what he'd have to do in order to win.
No bet
You’ve the risk of a bunch of anti-Nige people doing a pile on in voting
But do they want him off to show their virtue by voting against him, or do they want him on being tormented?
As long as he’s on the show and people are voting ITV will be very happy with the revenue.
It makes all the sense in the world for ITV and, presumably, is remunerative for Nige as well. I’m thinking from a betting perspective
Be interesting to see the odds. Usually the winner is not the favourite, or one of them, it is usually someone not as well known to the public whose personality shines through.
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
And exactly how many people are going to vote for and on the single issue of sending a few thousand people to Rwanda..
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
Following from the last thread, apparently Nige is going on that stupid I'm a Celeb show. I am sure the producers and the public will have lots of fun making him eat Kangaroo bollocks and all that nonsense. Not exactly what a potential leader of a political party does.
Farage is a general 10 or 12/1 shot which might be value if he is as popular as GB News thinks he is. I've never watched the show so have no idea what he'd have to do in order to win.
No bet
You’ve the risk of a bunch of anti-Nige people doing a pile on in voting
But do they want him off to show their virtue by voting against him, or do they want him on being tormented?
Both
He’ll probably come second
Matt Hancock was third last year. Though Nadine Dorries was the first to be eliminated when she did it, as was Robert Kilroy-Silk.
But blimey. It's being going since 2002.
As Farage gets YET ANOTHER foul challenge (voting is going to be a kind of catharsis for Remainers), there will be plenty of Ant and Dec's jolly "good evening, Prime Minister..."
"Voting is going to be a kind of catharsis for (former) Remainers".
Is it? I couldn't give a shiny s*** about Farage, on or off I'm a Celebrity...
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
And exactly how many people are going to vote for and on the single issue of sending a few thousand people to Rwanda..
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
I don't even understand how an election fixes anything for the tories, even if they managed to win it.
If it needs a change in legislation to get past the SC then they (still) have a substantial majority.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
Oddly don’t get the same at rugby and home and away fans mingle happily.
Defenders of football need to ask why Bath vs Gloucester can have fans mixed, drinking together but Portsmouth vs Southampton cannot. Ther3 is something ‘off’ with football. The behaviour towards refs at both the highest level and sadly at kids level too.
I love both sports, but there is a wilful blindness about the bad aspects of football from those in and around the game.
Same with cricket. We go tT20s at Durham. Crowds mingle. Never any brother too.
Football seems to attract this. Same with Rugby League.
JJ May be OTT with his comments on soccer. But he has a fair point about the game.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Weak, stupid, boring.
Disappointing.
I agree. How can you defend such nonsense. I'm surprised at you. 0.05% of a group behaving badly at a demo is pretty good going. I doubt you would get better from a group of vicars. It always happens. Trouble makers take it as an opportunity.
Yet you defend @leon for getting it hysterical wrong by a massive factor and ranting all night about it.
Pathetic defence this morning.
There is, of course, a distinction between behaving badly, and committing an arrestable offence. I’m pretty sure the former category represents more than 0.05%. though definitions of ‘badly’ might differ.
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Shipman has also got the "Government expect to lose the Rwanda case" line in the Funday Times. Anyone know if that's based on anything other than the government wanting the press to report that?
It depends who you read but the government have a good chance of winning the appeal . If they do lose it will be because of Article 3 of the ECHR .
The government have nothing to offer so will of course be happy to have a wedge issue to run on by leaving the ECHR and try and replicate the Brexit wars .
The problem is that this will likely cause a split in the party , leaving the ECHR will cause huge problems for Northern Ireland , put at risk the EU UK deal and of course mean that the government has to defend why it wants to be like Russia and Belarus .
It really should be easy enough to condemn the anti-Semitic, pogrom-celebrators and the many other useful idiots who provide cover for them; as well as the pissed-up, pilled-up, far-right thugs who Braverman gave licence to, and Sunak’s weakness in the face of her incitement encouraged.
If you went on the Palestine march yesterday, you went in the knowledge that others going would be calling for Jihad, the massacre of Jews and the destruction of Israel. You knew that this would cause huge upset to a large number of Jewish people. You didn’t care. That gives you a degree of complicity. And anyone on the march who saw the banners and heard the cries and did nothing loses the degree. They are entirely complicit.
As for Braverman, she knew no march was planned for today, she knew the actual march was going nowhere near the Cenotaph, she had been briefed by the police and clearly advised about the importance of lowering the temperature. She didn’t care because she saw an opportunity. And Sunak did nothing. Pathetic.
There's always the possibility that people marched in an attempt to stop the largely indiscriminate killing of children? Knowing that hundreds of thousands of people around the world are watching will hopefully temper the excesses of the Israeliu military and possibly give some hope to the innocent people suffering unimaginably in Gaza.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
There’s a massive difference between Grass roots soccer and soccer at the FIFA level which is exactly as JJ says.
At the high level, football requires complex and very expensive policing to prevent riots. In many, many countries.
Other mass spectator sports require no where near this level of policing.
Football is pretty much unique in requiring segregation of the spectators. It’s been great to watch the cricket and rugby world cups, with the mixed crowds all having a good day, and with very little trouble.
On topic, how much of today’s commentary of yesterday’s events, was written in advance by people already firm in their opinion of what was going to happen?
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
There’s a massive difference between Grass roots soccer and soccer at the FIFA level which is exactly as JJ says.
There’s a lot of money in football, a lot of tribalism and a lot of geopolitics. Put that together and you’re going to attract grifters and crooks to the honeypot. Not sure how that changes. As for the fan violence, it’s a lot less prevalent than it was. It’s interesting that the thugs seem to be getting older. Younger people drink less than they used to.
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
And exactly how many people are going to vote for and on the single issue of sending a few thousand people to Rwanda..
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
I don't even understand how an election fixes anything for the tories, even if they managed to win it.
If it needs a change in legislation to get past the SC then they (still) have a substantial majority.
Lords can delay it for a year, so the government gets timed out. A new five year term, plus having won on a "send people to Rwanda" manifesto, gets round that.
Doesn't stop it being a "moving Steiner's army round the map in the Berlin Bunker" plan.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
This site has some weird tics and biases and the prevelance of anti-football attitudes is one of them. I suppose it is indicative of its skew towards the better off and the privately educated.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
And exactly how many people are going to vote for and on the single issue of sending a few thousand people to Rwanda..
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
I don't even understand how an election fixes anything for the tories, even if they managed to win it.
If it needs a change in legislation to get past the SC then they (still) have a substantial majority.
Lords can delay it for a year, so the government gets timed out. A new five year term, plus having won on a "send people to Rwanda" manifesto, gets round that.
Doesn't stop it being a "moving Steiner's army round the map in the Berlin Bunker" plan.
But wtf is going to vote for this Tory party to have another 5 years to get a few people dumped in Rwanda.
the idea that it will net the tory party any extra votes let alone seats is utterly insane...
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
Yes, there's an areshole element in every population, so no surprise they occur amongst footballers and fans.
This site has some weird tics and biases and the prevelance of anti-football attitudes is one of them. I suppose it is indicative of its skew towards the better off and the privately educated.
It really should be easy enough to condemn the anti-Semitic, pogrom-celebrators and the many other useful idiots who provide cover for them; as well as the pissed-up, pilled-up, far-right thugs who Braverman gave licence to, and Sunak’s weakness in the face of her incitement encouraged.
If you went on the Palestine march yesterday, you went in the knowledge that others going would be calling for Jihad, the massacre of Jews and the destruction of Israel. You knew that this would cause huge upset to a large number of Jewish people. You didn’t care. That gives you a degree of complicity. And anyone on the march who saw the banners and heard the cries and did nothing loses the degree. They are entirely complicit.
As for Braverman, she knew no march was planned for today, she knew the actual march was going nowhere near the Cenotaph, she had been briefed by the police and clearly advised about the importance of lowering the temperature. She didn’t care because she saw an opportunity. And Sunak did nothing. Pathetic.
There's always the possibility that people marched in an attempt to stop the largely indiscriminate killing of children? Knowing that hundreds of thousands of people around the world are watching will hopefully temper the excesses of the Israeliu military and possibly give some hope to the innocent people suffering unimaginably in Gaza.
Absolutely - there were plenty of useful idiots on the march yesterday, playing directly into Netanyahu’s hands. By giving cover to anti-Semites calling for the mass murder of Jews, they reinforce his narrative that Israel is hated and alone, and should ignore international opinion.
Suella Braverman believes she has found a way to save her party, and Britain, from Sir Keir Starmer. If, as Ministers expect, the Supreme Court rules this week that the Government's Rwanda plan is illegal, she wants Rishi Sunak to call a snap 'small boats' General Election.
'If the judges reject our plan, then at that point we have to go to the country,' a close friend of the Home Secretary explained to me. 'We have to put our case directly to the people.'
According to Braverman's allies, this high-risk, shock-and-awe strategy has been discussed with the Prime Minister's senior election adviser, Isaac Levido. 'Isaac sees the advantages. He's supportive,' they claimed.
And what about Rishi Sunak himself?
'He's not there yet. But he has to be. It's time for him to man up and grow a pair.'
Christmas next year more likely from Inaction Man.
Timings don't really work, do they?
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
And exactly how many people are going to vote for and on the single issue of sending a few thousand people to Rwanda..
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
I don't even understand how an election fixes anything for the tories, even if they managed to win it.
If it needs a change in legislation to get past the SC then they (still) have a substantial majority.
Lords can delay it for a year, so the government gets timed out. A new five year term, plus having won on a "send people to Rwanda" manifesto, gets round that.
Doesn't stop it being a "moving Steiner's army round the map in the Berlin Bunker" plan.
But wtf is going to vote for this Tory party to have another 5 years to get a few people dumped in Rwanda.
the idea that it will net the tory party any extra votes let alone seats is utterly insane...
As Bernard Ingham said when he was Tony Benn's press secretary:
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
There’s a massive difference between Grass roots soccer and soccer at the FIFA level which is exactly as JJ says.
There’s a lot of money in football, a lot of tribalism and a lot of geopolitics. Put that together and you’re going to attract grifters and crooks to the honeypot. Not sure how that changes. As for the fan violence, it’s a lot less prevalent than it was. It’s interesting that the thugs seem to be getting older. Younger people drink less than they used to.
The older ones either never left it or drift back to it out of a sense of nostalgia the same way some middle aged men seem to reconnect with a hobby from their youth or get a motorbike.
Yes, younger people do drink far less than they used to. Rates of alcohol consumption have been falling since the mid 2000s. Boozing and casual culture did, certainly when I went to games, go hand in hand so you may well be right about the demographic change in casual culture.
As for soccer and money I don’t think it will improve. It will get worse with the advent of the large sums coming in from the Middle East and the money to be made Betting especially in the Far East.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
It's really not irrational. And whilst some may see it as "our national game", that does not mean that it has to define our nation. Especially as most of the nation don't follow it, perhaps aside from 'special' games.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Incidentally a relative of mine went on the march yesterday and it took three hours.How Leon was able to scoot from one location to another seeing these multiple outrages is a mystery. He must have been travelling by hellicopter
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
It's really not irrational. And whilst some may see it as "our national game", that does not mean that it has to define our nation. Especially as most of the nation don't follow it, perhaps aside from 'special' games.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
You know nothing about football. A period of silence from you on this matter would be welcome.
I’m not anti football, I’m pointing out the massive contrast in behaviour between football and basically every other sport. If you can’t see it, check your eyesight. Fighting opposition fans is not normal anywhere other than football.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
LOL. It is diseased. Just look at the massive level of corruption within it, and the amount of riots and fights that are generated. The casual and real racism shown all too often at grounds.
It is not a 'beautiful game'. It may have been at one stage; but money has corrupted it.
A friend of mine in the Marines told me that in Portsmouth men go to pubs just to pick fights with the off-duty Marines there. Apparently, there's a sub-culture where it's considered cool to have beaten up a Commando. And when the police are called they'll almost always give the Marines a pass and arrest the others, many of whom they know well, and some of whom have surprisingly high-powered jobs during the week.
Any time you get a bunch of young men together, especially with alcohol and machismo involved, aggression and fighting will follow, especially now there's no big war in this country for them to vent their rage. There's a reason 90% of our prisoners are young or middle-aged men. And whenever money is involved, corruption is likely to follow. So, yes, professional or semi-professional football is a sewer, the Twitter of sports, but if it weren't that, it'd be something else.
Sorry but that sounds like an urban myth to me. How do these thugs who get arrested keep their "surprisingly high-powered jobs"?
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
On a very basic level, if a slogan is consistently and widely misunderstood, it’s not a very good slogan, so needs changing. If you’re concerned about the misunderstanding, of course.
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Rogerdamus had a relative there on the marches. See above. There’s an implication on how you moved about 🤔
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
There’s a massive difference between Grass roots soccer and soccer at the FIFA level which is exactly as JJ says.
There’s a lot of money in football, a lot of tribalism and a lot of geopolitics. Put that together and you’re going to attract grifters and crooks to the honeypot. Not sure how that changes. As for the fan violence, it’s a lot less prevalent than it was. It’s interesting that the thugs seem to be getting older. Younger people drink less than they used to.
The older ones either never left it or drift back to it out of a sense of nostalgia the same way some middle aged men seem to reconnect with a hobby from their youth or get a motorbike.
Yes, younger people do drink far less than they used to. Rates of alcohol consumption have been falling since the mid 2000s. Boozing and casual culture did, certainly when I went to games, go hand in hand so you may well be right about the demographic change in casual culture.
As for soccer and money I don’t think it will improve. It will get worse with the advent of the large sums coming in from the Middle East and the money to be made Betting especially in the Far East.
Even FIFA have taken it too far now, it’s got to the point where they’re just giving the World Cup to the Saudis by default.
How are the committee members supposed to get their new Rolexes, when there isn’t even a bidding competition?
Incidentally a relative of mine went on the march yesterday and it took three hours.How Leon was able to scoot from one location to another seeing these multiple outrages is a mystery. He must have been travelling by hellicopter
In fairness, if he parked himself outside the The White Swan he'd have seen the whole march pass by.
On a very basic level, if a slogan is consistently and widely misunderstood, it’s not a very good slogan, so needs changing. If you’re concerned about the misunderstanding, of course.
From the Sarah-Jane to the Mee, Sky News will be free!
On a very basic level, if a slogan is consistently and widely misunderstood, it’s not a very good slogan, so needs changing. If you’re concerned about the misunderstanding, of course.
But as a fluffy way of calling for genocide, it’s brilliant!
It strikes me that Braverman is in a win-win situation as regards the Rwanda judgement. If the SC says it's legal, she can triumphantly nationalise Ryanair and instruct them to fly nowhere but Stansted to Kigali. If it's ruled illegal, she can bolster her stance as the anti-woke lefty lawyer-hating politico who speaks to the common sense of the British people.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
On a very basic level, if a slogan is consistently and widely misunderstood, it’s not a very good slogan, so needs changing. If you’re concerned about the misunderstanding, of course.
I’m not anti football, I’m pointing out the massive contrast in behaviour between football and basically every other sport. If you can’t see it, check your eyesight. Fighting opposition fans is not normal anywhere other than football.
There are just a lot more football fans and in the UK there is a long tradition of going to away games. Football is a sport like no other. Even in places with strong rugby traditions, the local football tram will tend to get bigger crowds. Look at Wales - clubs like Swansea and Cardiff City have much bigger followings than the rugby sides. It’s the same in Leicester, Bristol and almost anywhere that a football league tram goes up against a union side. Maybe Exeter is the only exception?
“Pro Palestine protesters firing rocket fireworks up and down roads leading into Victoria. Zero police interjection. They are having fun now despite danger to public #remembranceday”
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
It's really not irrational. And whilst some may see it as "our national game", that does not mean that it has to define our nation. Especially as most of the nation don't follow it, perhaps aside from 'special' games.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
You know nothing about football. A period of silence from you on this matter would be welcome.
LOL. Nah. Why are you so keen to defend the sport? Are you saying that it has no issues; that there are not deep problems within it? If so, then I'd argue you know nothing about the sport. And if you just want to silence voices pointing out those issues, then you too have issues.
On a very basic level, if a slogan is consistently and widely misunderstood, it’s not a very good slogan, so needs changing. If you’re concerned about the misunderstanding, of course.
But as a fluffy way of calling for genocide, it’s brilliant!
If it was targeted at any grouping on earth, it would be called a "dog-whistle".
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Rogerdamus had a relative there on the marches. See above. There’s an implication on how you moved about 🤔
I mean, lol
Ffs
The march was about an hours walk in length. You could enter and leave at will
You didn’t have to walk at the pace of the marchers - you could speed up or stop at an interesting bit. I was out for about six hours yesterday. I even managed to squeeze in two hours with the football lads in Whitehall. Perhaps I traveled by teleporter. Or perhaps I walked?
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
No, you are right Casino. I would NEVER admit to being so dense as to be taken in by my chosen media sources manipulating reality to the extent that I allowed my prejudices to cloud reality.
Hats off to you.
Wisdom has always been chasing you, but you have always been faster.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
It's much easier for him to argue against a straw man, though.
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Rogerdamus had a relative there on the marches. See above. There’s an implication on how you moved about 🤔
I mean, lol
Ffs
The march was about an hours walk in length. You could enter and leave at will
You didn’t have to walk at the pace of the marchers - you could speed up or stop at an interesting bit. I was out for about six hours yesterday. I even managed to squeeze in two hours with the football lads in Whitehall. Perhaps I traveled by teleporter. Or perhaps I walked?
It was pretty clear you were there. It was just a shitty comment by rogerdamus. Not outright saying you’re lying or embellishing but implying.
What teams were the casuals you met from ? They can be knobs but probably good craic when not talking soccer or brawling.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
You are completely barking mad.
You’re very confident of my quote. Can you cut and paste it on here?
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
We’re at a new level of meta this morning. Having moved on from to posting about the war to posting about people protesting about the war, we’re now posting about posters posting about the protests about the war.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
You are completely barking mad.
You’re very confident of my quote. Can you cut and paste it on here?
LOL
"The fireworks came from all over: I have the photos. The idea this was just "150" is comforting garbage
By the end it WAS down to a hardcore - of several thousand, maybe 10-15,000"
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Rogerdamus had a relative there on the marches. See above. There’s an implication on how you moved about 🤔
I mean, lol
Ffs
The march was about an hours walk in length. You could enter and leave at will
You didn’t have to walk at the pace of the marchers - you could speed up or stop at an interesting bit. I was out for about six hours yesterday. I even managed to squeeze in two hours with the football lads in Whitehall. Perhaps I traveled by teleporter. Or perhaps I walked?
It was pretty clear you were there. It was just a shitty comment by rogerdamus.
Here is the route the march took. As I say - one hour of walking would cover it. I was there for six hours and you could come and go as you please and walk at whatever speed you liked - or simply loop round sidestreets and rejoin it further down
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
It's much easier for him to argue against a straw man, though.
Like I said: an idiot.
Sad thing is though you and he are wrong. He did say it and he has asked me to cut and paste it which I have done. Eat humble pie.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
No, you are right Casino. I would NEVER admit to being so dense as to be taken in by my chosen media sources manipulating reality to the extent that I allowed my prejudices to cloud reality.
Hats off to you.
Wisdom has always been chasing you, but you have always been faster.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
You are completely barking mad.
You’re very confident of my quote. Can you cut and paste it on here?
LOL
"The fireworks came from all over: I have the photos. The idea this was just "150" is comforting garbage
By the end it WAS down to a hardcore - of several thousand, maybe 10-15,000"
Do I say every single one of those 10-15,000 had fireworks? No, of course not. It would be physically impossible
I’m saying that the march reduced to about 10-15,000 who looked like they wanted trouble. And they found it in multiple places
“As fireworks were fired at crowds and police, an officer seems to have suffered an eye injury. Members of the public were running to avoid firework explosions .”
PB has now reached the point where it is so eager to disbelieve I saw what I saw that it is denying I was even at the rally, because to get around as I did I would have “needed a helicopter”
Looks in. Very grumpy. Decides to go off and read an interesting new book on spigot mortars.
Oooh, which book is that? I've been fascinated by them since my old flat south of Cambridge had the base of one outside it, the stainless steel pin still immaculate. I occasionally find bases on walks or runs, including one by the river in Ely.
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Obviously you were there, and you saw what you reported, backed-up with photos. No issue with any of that.
In the cold light of day today though, you'd surely accept that given the size of the crowd and the nature of the issue, the march passed off peacefully overall?
Twitter thread by the Met requesting info on (presumably) suspected hate crimes.
Following today's pro-Palestinian demonstration we're looking to identifying individuals in the thread below. Anyone who can help us identify this person should call 101, giving reference 1235186/23. Information can also be provided to Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111 https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723462648577081629
Which suggests, if nothing else, that the claims of bias regarding the event are a confection of the Home Secretary’s imagination.
“Pro Palestine protesters firing rocket fireworks up and down roads leading into Victoria. Zero police interjection. They are having fun now despite danger to public #remembranceday”
Given Remembrance Day is today that would be difficult ! And exactly what was disrupted yesterday in terms of the actual Cenotaph re the pro Palestinian march ?
The only disruption there was by hooligans and the EDL .
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
It's much easier for him to argue against a straw man, though.
Like I said: an idiot.
Sad thing is though you and he are wrong. He did say it and he has asked me to cut and paste it which I have done. Eat humble pie.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
You are completely barking mad.
You’re very confident of my quote. Can you cut and paste it on here?
LOL
"The fireworks came from all over: I have the photos. The idea this was just "150" is comforting garbage
By the end it WAS down to a hardcore - of several thousand, maybe 10-15,000"
Do I say every single one of those 10-15,000 had fireworks? No, of course not. It would be physically impossible
I’m saying that the march reduced to about 10-15,000 who looked like they wanted trouble. And they found it in multiple places
“As fireworks were fired at crowds and police, an officer seems to have suffered an eye injury. Members of the public were running to avoid firework explosions .”
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
LOL. It is diseased. Just look at the massive level of corruption within it, and the amount of riots and fights that are generated. The casual and real racism shown all too often at grounds.
It is not a 'beautiful game'. It may have been at one stage; but money has corrupted it.
A friend of mine in the Marines told me that in Portsmouth men go to pubs just to pick fights with the off-duty Marines there. Apparently, there's a sub-culture where it's considered cool to have beaten up a Commando. And when the police are called they'll almost always give the Marines a pass and arrest the others, many of whom they know well, and some of whom have surprisingly high-powered jobs during the week.
Any time you get a bunch of young men together, especially with alcohol and machismo involved, aggression and fighting will follow, especially now there's no big war in this country for them to vent their rage. There's a reason 90% of our prisoners are young or middle-aged men. And whenever money is involved, corruption is likely to follow. So, yes, professional or semi-professional football is a sewer, the Twitter of sports, but if it weren't that, it'd be something else.
The effect alcohol has on people is weird. I get fairly happy or maudlin when drunk; yet other people can get sad or violent.
I had an ex-colleague who would have a few pints and then start fights with strangers. He then had the annoying habit of running off, leaving us with the fight. Yet when he was not drinking, he was the polar opposite: calm, collected and intelligent.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
He didn't say that.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
You?
Lots of people thought that so don't worry about it. Completely reasonable.
Leon did say ten to fifteen thousand people. Love to admit I was wrong, but I'm not. He said it. He did.
You are being added to my idiots list.
Well done.
What you mean because I quoted @leon accurately and you cocked up. I mean not difficult to check. His post is there from yesterday. You seriously want me to say I got something wrong which clearly I didn't.
You are completely barking mad.
You’re very confident of my quote. Can you cut and paste it on here?
LOL
"The fireworks came from all over: I have the photos. The idea this was just "150" is comforting garbage
By the end it WAS down to a hardcore - of several thousand, maybe 10-15,000"
Do I say every single one of those 10-15,000 had fireworks? No, of course not. It would be physically impossible
I’m saying that the march reduced to about 10-15,000 who looked like they wanted trouble. And they found it in multiple places
“Pro Palestine protesters firing rocket fireworks up and down roads leading into Victoria. Zero police interjection. They are having fun now despite danger to public #remembranceday”
Given Remembrance Day is today that would be difficult ! And exactly what was disrupted yesterday in terms of the actual Cenotaph re the pro Palestinian march ?
The only disruption there was by hooligans and the EDL .
And I saw the EDL and they were pathetic racist thugs and i said so on here. Also quite fat
But there was 238 of them, not 30,000 or 300,000 - that’s the point
Have to confess that I didn’t know that this wasn’t already a thing.
Something big happened today.
First blood transfusion in a trench 🩸
Successfully performed by 12th brigade NGU. The wounded soldier is saved and will live.
Finally, after 2 years of hacking the stupid system, overcoming red tape, enormous amounts of efforts put into changing the legislation and training medics, it’s WORKING!!! This is one of the most important strategic events in this war. Many more lives will be saved. https://twitter.com/AnnaFil_Ukraine/status/1723440114578190562
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
It's really not irrational. And whilst some may see it as "our national game", that does not mean that it has to define our nation. Especially as most of the nation don't follow it, perhaps aside from 'special' games.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
You know nothing about football. A period of silence from you on this matter would be welcome.
LOL. Nah. Why are you so keen to defend the sport? Are you saying that it has no issues; that there are not deep problems within it? If so, then I'd argue you know nothing about the sport. And if you just want to silence voices pointing out those issues, then you too have issues.
You seek to slur a game enjoyed by literally millions every weekend. Before you embarrass yourself further, start with some simple mathematics. How many people watch football on an average weekend compared to rugby or cricket? Once you have done your sums come back to me.
“Pro Palestine protesters firing rocket fireworks up and down roads leading into Victoria. Zero police interjection. They are having fun now despite danger to public #remembranceday”
Given Remembrance Day is today that would be difficult ! And exactly what was disrupted yesterday in terms of the actual Cenotaph re the pro Palestinian march ?
The only disruption there was by hooligans and the EDL .
The Cenotaph remembrance ceremony is today. Remembrance Day is, and always will be, the 11th Nov.
Mike’s recent header, and Casino, made a similar mixup.
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
It's much easier for him to argue against a straw man, though.
Like I said: an idiot.
Sad thing is though you and he are wrong. He did say it and he has asked me to cut and paste it which I have done. Eat humble pie.
You're the one that needs to eat humble pie.
You complete idiot with zero integrity.
Seems you can't admit when you were wrong after all.
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Obviously you were there, and you saw what you reported, backed-up with photos. No issue with any of that.
In the cold light of day today though, you'd surely accept that given the size of the crowd and the nature of the issue, the march passed off peacefully overall?
No, unfortunately I wouldn’t. I’m happy to say - and have said so - that 90% of the marchers were entirely peaceful in their actions. I chatted with them. They were nice, friendly, walking through lovely bits of London on a sunny day - good for them
But even these people were loudly chanting “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” - often VERY loudly. If I was a British Jew I would find that deeply intimidating - especially from 300,000 people. I don’t think that is “peaceful overall”
And then you have the 5-10% who wanted trouble and - later on - found it in different ways
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It strikes me that Braverman is in a win-win situation as regards the Rwanda judgement. If the SC says it's legal, she can triumphantly nationalise Ryanair and instruct them to fly nowhere but Stansted to Kigali. If it's ruled illegal, she can bolster her stance as the anti-woke lefty lawyer-hating politico who speaks to the common sense of the British people.
Nationalising an Irish airline would be something of an escalation!
I’m not going to spend the day, on here, with people who weren’t at the rallies who are intent on disputing what I saw with my own eyes. I have a life; I know what I witnessed
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
Obviously you were there, and you saw what you reported, backed-up with photos. No issue with any of that.
In the cold light of day today though, you'd surely accept that given the size of the crowd and the nature of the issue, the march passed off peacefully overall?
No, unfortunately I wouldn’t. I’m happy to say - and have said so - that 90% of the marchers were entirely peaceful in their actions. I chatted with them. They were nice, friendly, walking through lovely bits of London on a sunny day - good for them
But even these people were loudly chanting “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” - often VERY loudly. If I was a British Jew I would find that deeply intimidating - especially from 300,000 people. I don’t think that is “peaceful overall”
And then you have the 5-10% who wanted trouble and - later on - found it in different ways
Ok fair enough. Personally, I was worried it would degenerate into Poll Tax style chaos so am grateful it did not.
Out of curiosity, were you identifiable as 'press' or just there as a private individual?
I see this morning that the police put the group letting off fireworks yesterday at 150. So much for @Leon's tens of thousands. And @Casino_Royale thinks @Leon's hysterical reporting was reliable.
So higher than the number of hooligans arrested yet?
@Leon was right. It reflects badly on too many posters on here that they don't have the humility or integrity to admit it.
??? Tens of thousands compared to 150 makes @leon right? Honestly some people will defend any old nonsense.
Given the majority of the casuals went for a ruck (many of whom would be happy to have a go at plod) but the majority of the pro Hamas/pro gaza/pro ceasefire/anti Israel marchers/supporters didn’t then it is no surprise that the numbers are proportionally different. Leon’s point on the reporting was not unreasonable.
@leon claimed there were tens of thousands letting off fireworks. How is that reasonable and not hysterical?
No I didn’t. I said 5-10% of the pro-Palestine marchers had a sinister quality to them (entirely masked, black clothes, very aggressive chanting), I said the other 90% - 90% - were perfectly pleasant and peaceful
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
It's much easier for him to argue against a straw man, though.
Like I said: an idiot.
Sad thing is though you and he are wrong. He did say it and he has asked me to cut and paste it which I have done. Eat humble pie.
You're the one that needs to eat humble pie.
You complete idiot with zero integrity.
Seems you can't admit when you were wrong after all.
Leon - anything incorrect or just selective reporting that you are complaining about?
Deeply selective reporting
No mention that the pro-Palestinians were shooting fireworks at the faces of the cops, by the end
No mention of the attempted stabbings, the menacing gangs, the mobbing of Gove, the cars driving around full of people shouting at Jews
That is the summary from the Live page. If we look instead at the BBC's main story, it does mention Gove (with video), the PM condemning both sides, and the police issuing three pictures of pro-Palestine marchers they want to identify. It says there have been 188 hate crime arrests, most for antisemitic offences, since 7th October. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67390514
The only real complaint I can see about the BBC Live reporting Leon complains about is that this refers to a splinter group of pro-Palestine marchers but that is not mentioned in the summary: Officers also intercepted a group of 150. Arrests were made after some of the fireworks struck officers in the face
However scrolling down finds a fuller account which is:- Arrests made after officers struck by fireworks - police Earlier we reported that officers detained a breakaway group of about 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The statement from the assistant commissioner says the group of 150 were "wearing face coverings and firing fireworks".
He says "arrests were made" after some officers were struck in the face with fireworks.
His statement adds that the Met will be publishing images people suspected to have committed offences, such as showing support for UK proscribed terrorist organisations, including Hamas.
And earlier than that, where it becomes clear the BBC reporters did not see this first-hand:-
We've had another update from the Metropolitan Police to say that officers have detained a breakaway group of around 150 people from the pro-Palestinian demonstration.
The group in Grosvenor Place in Belgravia were firing fireworks and many are wearing face coverings, the force says in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Officers are detaining and searching those involved under Section 60 and 60AA powers, the Met adds.
The Met is using the word detained in its statement, but this may not be the same as being arrested. BBC News is asking the Met for more information.
Channel 4 news partiality, or lack of it, is certainly not a surprise. It’s becoming a bit of a left of centre GB News.
There was a group of casuals detained by the police yesterday to prevent a breach of the peace.
People who call all casuals neo nazi or far right are wrong. Some will be.
Most just turn up for,a ruck and a pissup. They were even brawling among themselves. Their politics goes across the whole spectrum. They just like a tear up.
I'm amused by the way Linekar and others are complaining about them being called "Football Hooligans". Their clubs might not have been playing, but they are organised through the diseased sport he earns millions from us to speak cr@p about.
My son and his U15 team play every week, they train twice a week. Every weekend hundreds of thousands of mostly young people give their all, getting fresh air and exercise and learning about teamwork and dedication. Millions watch games, enjoying the excitement and spectacle of a beautiful game that enjoys global appeal. A few frustrated, angry, violent men who attach themselves to the game for the purpose of violence do not represent it. Diseased sport my arse.
Josias has an irrational hatred of our national game, and knows sod all about it. He is best ignored on this topic.
It's really not irrational. And whilst some may see it as "our national game", that does not mean that it has to define our nation. Especially as most of the nation don't follow it, perhaps aside from 'special' games.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
You know nothing about football. A period of silence from you on this matter would be welcome.
LOL. Nah. Why are you so keen to defend the sport? Are you saying that it has no issues; that there are not deep problems within it? If so, then I'd argue you know nothing about the sport. And if you just want to silence voices pointing out those issues, then you too have issues.
You seek to slur a game enjoyed by literally millions every weekend. Before you embarrass yourself further, start with some simple mathematics. How many people watch football on an average weekend compared to rugby or cricket? Once you have done your sums come back to me.
And your point is? Does that make the problems in the sport automagically disappear?
I guess you're in the category in the last line in my previous post.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
Apology accepted... I pardon you
Schindler's List?
Didn't that guy sniper shot the boy through the head anyway five minutes later?
I think Suella’s small boats election plan is highly doubtful but wouldn’t be surprised if it gets a few frontbenchers thinking. They are probably right that an election on culture wars would be better for them than an election on the economy and public services.
The problem for the government is fourfold:
- Labour is refusing the play the culture war game. As a party bigwig put it at an event I was at this week, they aim to make themselves the smallest possible moving target for anything on CATT* - Focusing on really gamey topics like Rwanda, where there is evidence in front of voters of Tory inaction, could backfire if it drives more people to Refuk - Not many small boats around at this time of year. We’re entering the down season for channel crossings so the Mail will struggle for recent footage - The choreography of the next few weeks doesn’t help. After the Rwanda judgment we’re pretty much straight into the Autumn statement. That puts Jeremy Hunt in the foreground. Not a culture warrior. And also puts the economy and tax and spend back in the headlines. So a snap election on small boats would have to either involve cancelling the autumn statement, or doing it afterwards when the news cycle has moved on from Rwanda.
*CATT is apparently the Tory agreed upon attack strategy. Climate, Asylum, Trans and some other T I now can’t remember.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
Apology accepted... I pardon you
Schindler's List?
Didn't that guy sniper shot the boy through the head anyway five minutes later?
Yeah, that scene always freaks me out, you think the boy's gonna be just fine
Looks in. Very grumpy. Decides to go off and read an interesting new book on spigot mortars.
Oooh, which book is that? I've been fascinated by them since my old flat south of Cambridge had the base of one outside it, the stainless steel pin still immaculate. I occasionally find bases on walks or runs, including one by the river in Ely.
Looks back in after finishing an email, goes off again ... ah!
Chrome or stainless or anyway shiny pin on a round concrete block? ISTR seeing them on the defence line along the Kennet and Avon Canal once. That must be the Blacker Bombard IIRC which indeed is covered. I haven't got that far (or indeed very far, so IANAE on the book, but it seems to be based on primary documents. Might be up @Malmesbury 's street too so I'll add him in.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
Apology accepted... I pardon you
Schindler's List?
Didn't that guy sniper shot the boy through the head anyway five minutes later?
Yeah, that scene always freaks me out, you think the boy's gonna be just fine
I think Suella’s small boats election plan is highly doubtful but wouldn’t be surprised if it gets a few frontbenchers thinking. They are probably right that an election on culture wars would be better for them than an election on the economy and public services.
The problem for the government is fourfold:
- Labour is refusing the play the culture war game. As a party bigwig put it at an event I was at this week, they aim to make themselves the smallest possible moving target for anything on CATT* - Focusing on really gamey topics like Rwanda, where there is evidence in front of voters of Tory inaction, could backfire if it drives more people to Refuk - Not many small boats around at this time of year. We’re entering the down season for channel crossings so the Mail will struggle for recent footage - The choreography of the next few weeks doesn’t help. After the Rwanda judgment we’re pretty much straight into the Autumn statement. That puts Jeremy Hunt in the foreground. Not a culture warrior. And also puts the economy and tax and spend back in the headlines. So a snap election on small boats would have to either involve cancelling the autumn statement, or doing it afterwards when the news cycle has moved on from Rwanda.
*CATT is apparently the Tory agreed upon attack strategy. Climate, Asylum, Trans and some other T I now can’t remember.
Let me admit one other thing I got wrong (show you how it's done): up until about 9am yesterday I thought The March was planned *for today* to clash with the main Rememberance Sunday event, and the mass march past the cenotaph by thousands of veterans. I got that wrong and felt pretty silly about it - although I bet I wasn't the only one. Mea culpa.
Tsk. So ill-informed
Yes, but I don't see it as a weakness to admit when I get it wrong - and to do so publicly, as well.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
Apology accepted... I pardon you
Schindler's List?
Didn't that guy sniper shot the boy through the head anyway five minutes later?
Yeah, that scene always freaks me out, you think the boy's gonna be just fine
It's a brilliant but horrifying film.
One of the Schindler Jews who met Ralph Fiennes on set started shaking uncontrollably, as he reminded her too much of real Amon Goeth.
Comments
If Rishi hangs on until a year January he might be in with a shout. I am not sure "small boats" trumps the current cost of living crisis in the event of a "snap election".
Although I suppose from Suella's point of view the sooner the Tories are left as a right-wing rump in the HoC, the sooner she becomes LOTO and the sooner she can tear down the Lulu Lytle wallpaper.
Is this on the scale of the bad old days, absolutely not, but its on the rise and at places that don't have the resources to combat it.
I didn't support either side yesterday. One lot overwhelmingly went to make a peace/pro-Palestinian demonstation. Naive but I understand the first part at least. One lot went to have a ruck - preferably with brown folk but the Police would do. This second group also tried to storm and occupy the Cenotaph on Armistice Day.
The regular break-away by 100 or so nutters long after the main demo again happened and the Police handled it - as they are well used to handling it. Michael Gove was shouted at - which is OK - and chased and jostled - which is definitely not. However, he fared a lot better than Suella or Mr Sunak would have done if they had wandered in among Robinson's EDL mob.
I have real sympathies for the Jewish community - whether they are supportive of the Israeli Govt or not. We should be very careful about the route of marches and about protecting potential targets of violent anti-semitism. However, there is a large Russian emigre community in London. Were we to ban peace demos for fear of offending them? Ban the Ukrainian (or the Russian) flag. Should we ban display of the Palestinian and Israeli flags?
All very difficult. All needing a level and talented brain as Home Secretary. Rather than someone pouring petrol on the flames and trying to whip up a riot.
Yesterday the Met Police did a great job. Frankly what I've seen of the peace demo was less violence than at a Darlington/Hartlepool derby back in the day. The Mail front page is a fine example of barrel-scraping. They were set up for front page pictures of London in flames.
Meanwhile - as ever - don't believe all you see on Twitter (sometimes known as X) and don't believe what certain people cull off twitter to write on here!
Other mass spectator sports require no where near this level of policing.
Sunak can still just about squeeze an election in before Christmas, but nobody will thank him for it. (And the knocking copy from Bishops writes itself.)
He'd be mad to have an election with a festive pause, so the snappiest he can then do is mid-February.
All else being equal a random chav will get his shit pushed in by an RM as they are usually as fit as fuck, have the pain threshold of a housebrick and have zero notion of fighting fair. They also hunt in packs.
The idea that it's worth an election tells you exactly how stupid Braverman is...
Is it? I couldn't give a shiny s*** about Farage, on or off I'm a Celebrity...
If it needs a change in legislation to get past the SC then they (still) have a substantial majority.
Football seems to attract this. Same with Rugby League.
JJ May be OTT with his comments on soccer. But he has a fair point about the game.
The government have nothing to offer so will of course be happy to have a wedge issue to run on by leaving the ECHR and try and replicate the Brexit wars .
The problem is that this will likely cause a split in the party , leaving the ECHR will cause huge problems for Northern Ireland , put at risk the EU UK deal and of course mean that the government has to defend why it wants to be like Russia and Belarus .
On topic, how much of today’s commentary of yesterday’s events, was written in advance by people already firm in their opinion of what was going to happen?
Doesn't stop it being a "moving Steiner's army round the map in the Berlin Bunker" plan.
I then said (IIRC) that multiple people were letting off fireworks, from different directions. And that is all true
the idea that it will net the tory party any extra votes let alone seats is utterly insane...
Journalist: Why did the minister say that?
Ingham: Because he's stark staring mad.
Yes, younger people do drink far less than they used to. Rates of alcohol consumption have been falling since the mid 2000s. Boozing and casual culture did, certainly when I went to games, go hand in hand so you may well be right about the demographic change in casual culture.
As for soccer and money I don’t think it will improve. It will get worse with the advent of the large sums coming in from the Middle East and the money to be made Betting especially in the Far East.
Football has massive issues, both nationally and internationally. Ignoring those issues, or turning a blind eye to them, does the sport, and its fans, no good.
Here’s the closest I got to saying what @kjh claims I said. About 5.30pm
“you’re trying to frame a narrative in a way that I can see - with my own eyes - is completely preposterous
There is a big crowd to my left shooting fireworks everywhere. The riot police do nothing because there’s nothing they can do. They can’t arrest 10,000 people. The marchers have been asked to go home and they are refusing”
Did every single person in that large crowd have fireworks? Of course not. But that’s not what I say. There were multiple individuals within that crowd with fireworks. It went on for hours
https://x.com/johnrentoul/status/1723629190459629707?s=61&t=s0ae0IFncdLS1Dc7J0P_TQ
How are the committee members supposed to get their new Rolexes, when there isn’t even a bidding competition?
Well done.
“Pro Palestine protesters firing rocket fireworks up and down roads leading into Victoria. Zero police interjection. They are having fun now despite danger to public #remembranceday”
https://x.com/incmonocle/status/1723401957056876883?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
“Palestinian activists launch fireworks at Metropolitan Police officers in London tonight while screaming “f**k the pigs.”
Around 300,000 Palestinian activists took to the streets today to disrupt Remembrance Day memorial services.”
https://x.com/olilondontv/status/1723425865575322090?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
Ffs
The march was about an hours walk in length. You could enter and leave at will
You didn’t have to walk at the pace of the marchers - you could speed up or stop at an interesting bit. I was out for about six hours yesterday. I even managed to squeeze in two hours with the football lads in Whitehall. Perhaps I traveled by teleporter. Or perhaps I walked?
Like I said: an idiot.
What teams were the casuals you met from ? They can be knobs but probably good craic when not talking soccer or brawling.
You are completely barking mad.
I was out of order in how I addressed you yesterday as well. I hope you can accept my apologies.
It was unnecessary and uncalled for.
And discussing whether football is evil.
"The fireworks came from all over: I have the photos. The idea this was just "150" is comforting garbage
By the end it WAS down to a hardcore - of several thousand, maybe 10-15,000"
PB is having a moment of Peak Stupidity
Observer investigation reveals UK Biobank opened its biomedical database to insurance firms despite pledge it would not do so
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2023/nov/12/private-uk-health-data-donated-medical-research-shared-insurance-companies
https://twitter.com/QueerhanKhan/status/1723469059528835560
Hopefully, Arsenal will be able to identify them and ban them.
I’m saying that the march reduced to about 10-15,000 who looked like they wanted trouble. And they found it in multiple places
“As fireworks were fired at crowds and police, an officer seems to have suffered an eye injury. Members of the public were running to avoid firework explosions .”
https://x.com/incmonocle/status/1723474361485554132?s=46&t=bulOICNH15U6kB0MwE6Lfw
"Sunak struggles to have the presence of the circus's ice cream seller."
Hodges.
I mean, guys, stop. And think
How about we all reconvene early September?
In the cold light of day today though, you'd surely accept that given the size of the crowd and the nature of the issue, the march passed off peacefully overall?
Following today's pro-Palestinian demonstration we're looking to identifying individuals in the thread below.
Anyone who can help us identify this person should call 101, giving reference 1235186/23.
Information can also be provided to Crimestoppers, anonymously, on 0800 555 111
https://twitter.com/metpoliceuk/status/1723462648577081629
Which suggests, if nothing else, that the claims of bias regarding the event are a confection of the Home Secretary’s imagination.
The only disruption there was by hooligans and the EDL .
You complete idiot with zero integrity.
A-digging this hole
A hole in the ground
So big and sort of round it was
There was I
Digging it deep...
Off to lunch in Cambridge now.
I had an ex-colleague who would have a few pints and then start fights with strangers. He then had the annoying habit of running off, leaving us with the fight. Yet when he was not drinking, he was the polar opposite: calm, collected and intelligent.
I’m saying that the march reduced to about 10-15,000 who looked like they wanted trouble. And they found it in multiple places And I saw the EDL and they were pathetic racist thugs and i said so on here. Also quite fat
But there was 238 of them, not 30,000 or 300,000 - that’s the point
Something big happened today.
First blood transfusion in a trench 🩸
Successfully performed by 12th brigade NGU. The wounded soldier is saved and will live.
Finally, after 2 years of hacking the stupid system, overcoming red tape, enormous amounts of efforts put into changing the legislation and training medics, it’s WORKING!!!
This is one of the most important strategic events in this war. Many more lives will be saved.
https://twitter.com/AnnaFil_Ukraine/status/1723440114578190562
Remembrance Day is, and always will be, the 11th Nov.
Mike’s recent header, and Casino, made a similar mixup.
the meaning of a sentence.
Example:
"The marbles fell out of my pocket."
"The marbles fell out of my colon."
https://x.com/rcdewinter/status/1723569005443649881?s=46
They did a good job inspite of political interference.
The Sunday Mail can reveal that a key policy which outlined how covid patients could be moved from hospitals to care homes has went missing from public view.
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scottish-government-locked-another-deletion-31417848
But even these people were loudly chanting “from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free” - often VERY loudly. If I was a British Jew I would find that deeply intimidating - especially from 300,000 people. I don’t think that is “peaceful overall”
And then you have the 5-10% who wanted trouble and - later on - found it in different ways
Out of curiosity, were you identifiable as 'press' or just there as a private individual?
I guess you're in the category in the last line in my previous post.
Didn't that guy sniper shot the boy through the head anyway five minutes later?
The problem for the government is fourfold:
- Labour is refusing the play the culture war game. As a party bigwig put it at an event I was at this week, they aim to make themselves the smallest possible moving target for anything on CATT*
- Focusing on really gamey topics like Rwanda, where there is evidence in front of voters of Tory inaction, could backfire if it drives more people to Refuk
- Not many small boats around at this time of year. We’re entering the down season for channel crossings so the Mail will struggle for recent footage
- The choreography of the next few weeks doesn’t help. After the Rwanda judgment we’re pretty much straight into the Autumn statement. That puts Jeremy Hunt in the foreground. Not a culture warrior. And also puts the economy and tax and spend back in the headlines. So a snap election on small boats would have to either involve cancelling the autumn statement, or doing it afterwards when the news cycle has moved on from Rwanda.
*CATT is apparently the Tory agreed upon attack strategy. Climate, Asylum, Trans and some other T I now can’t remember.
Chrome or stainless or anyway shiny pin on a round concrete block? ISTR seeing them on the defence line along the Kennet and Avon Canal once. That must be the Blacker Bombard IIRC which indeed is covered. I haven't got that far (or indeed very far, so IANAE on the book, but it seems to be based on primary documents. Might be up @Malmesbury 's street too so I'll add him in.
Currently cheapo at
https://www.naval-military-press.com/product/defeating-the-panzer-stuka-menacebritish-spigot-weapons-of-the-second-world-war/
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0108052/trivia/?ref_=ttqu_ql_3