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How viable are Green targets in 2024? Part One – politicalbetting.com

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  • I said in the London area!

    No forecast had damaging winds in London.
    We did have a Yellow Warning.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,873

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The Scottish LibDems are a bizarre opportunistic party without any obvious identity other than "we're not them, or them, or them". The party in England & Wales has some discernible identity but Scotland is weird. I never understood why they didn't decide to become "the party of devo-max" which would suit the wider LibDem philosophy perfectly.
    SLDs were, of course, historically very important - the party of the mid and late C19 middle classes and, in the countryside, the Gaelic and Northern Isles peasant and smallholder - hence the Crofting Commission and the crofting legislation (carefully excluded from the rest of Scotland). But tending now to be a relic of the rural areas and university areas.

    The SLDs were a home rule/devo party in more recent decades. They did cooperate with Mr Blair's Labour Party to set up the Holyrood system - not least in carefully downgrading the voting system to ensure that neither the SNP nor the Tories would ever win, with permanent hegemony for a SLAB-SLD alliance. That does not, of course, preclude a movement for Devomax. But they did sign up to the settlement which carefully reserved such matters to Westminster, so ...
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ..er .. bincinerator

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
    Is venison vegetarian? :lol:
    I enjoy vegetarian food, especially to accompany meat.

    BTW "bincinerator" was an unrealised quip about the Upcycled Oil Barrel I had delivered by Amazon Prime this week :smile: .
    Upcycled to what?
  • Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Interesting read, noting as many of us have that education level and social values are replacing economic values, as key determinants of voting intention.

    Also another piece on the same site, noting that an anti-Trump PAC made and then shelved four ads critising his legal troubles, as they totally backfired with test audiences.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/03/anti-trump-group-ads-backfired-00125087
    I know someone who has backed Trump on the theory that his legal woes will fire up his voters. Your story suggests my punter is on to something.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    Yes, we should be more welcoming to refugees and their descendents. They shouldn't have to stop in the first "safe" country.

    That is what you meant, isn't it?

  • TimSTimS Posts: 13,001

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    You asked that on the day and I answered. It performed exactly as predicted with the path being a little South of the average model forecasts.

    Sting-Jet is the term. A descending tongue of very strong winds on the Western side of a storm. It developed and hit NW France and the Channel Islands with 100mph winds.

    London was never expected to get hurricane force winds from this. The action was along the channel.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,750
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

    'Writing on X, formerly Twitter, Braverman defended her proposals, saying: “The British people are compassionate. We will always support those who are genuinely homeless. But we cannot allow our streets to be taken over by rows of tents occupied by people, many of them from abroad, living on the streets as a lifestyle choice."'

    HTF is living on the streets a lifestyle choice,

    Few people even those who a mentally ill would regard living on the streets a choice - they are only doing it because everything else has failed and chances are whatever services exist locally to care for people with such needs are running well beyond capacity.
    Even the Tory membership might think it was going a bit far to take away a homeless person's tent if they were homeless through no fault of their own?
  • TimS said:

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    You asked that on the day and I answered. It performed exactly as predicted with the path being a little South of the average model forecasts.

    Sting-Jet is the term. A descending tongue of very strong winds on the Western side of a storm. It developed and hit NW France and the Channel Islands with 100mph winds.

    London was never expected to get hurricane force winds from this. The action was along the channel.
    Apologies - I missed your reply the other day.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    If Britain's Jews leave it will also be a disaster for the country's economy. Jews tend to be extremely productive, resourceful, educated, dynamic, enterprising - model citizens in the main. This is one of the reasons they are so envied by others, as Coren points out - they get rich cause they are smart and work hard

    If we end up replacing them with people who mainly drive cabs and REDACTED REDACTED it will be one of the greatest acts of self-harm in British history
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    @Sandpit

    People would much rather watch or read "news" that fits in with their existing preconceptions and prejudices, than news that is accurate.

    Social media has made this worse, but you only have to see OAN (for example), to see this is just as true in TV as online.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    edited November 2023

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    ..er .. bincinerator

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
    Is venison vegetarian? :lol:
    I enjoy vegetarian food, especially to accompany meat.

    BTW "bincinerator" was an unrealised quip about the Upcycled Oil Barrel I had delivered by Amazon Prime this week :smile: .
    Upcycled to what?
    A rather longer lasting garden incinerator than the £20 ones from B&Q made from tinfoil.

    It's the most fun I have had with Amazon packaging (the barrel was shrink-wrapped) since I ordered a single soft bucket, and it was delivered in a huge cardboard box. Packaging is improving - for the replacement kettle that came this week the Amazon contribution was a single address label stuck on the Russell-Hobbs box.

    (For scale, those pavers are 3ft x 2ft.)
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
    There is a campaign for him to do that; he should swallow his pride and do it
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428


    I said in the London area!

    No forecast had damaging winds in London.
    We did have a Yellow Warning.
    You probably need to look at how the warnings work. There is a probability matrix of severity vs likelihood. Often a yellow warning means there is a low probability of something severe ( as opposed to a high probability of low impact). So a one in 10 chance of damaging winds might generate a yellow warning that would have no effects nine times out of ten.

    The Metoffice has always struggled with communicating chance to the public, but I would hope the good folk of PB, interested in betting etc, would cope better…
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    If Britain's Jews leave it will also be a disaster for the country's economy. Jews tend to be extremely productive, resourceful, educated, dynamic, enterprising - model citizens in the main. This is one of the reasons they are so envied by others, as Coren points out - they get rich cause they are smart and work hard

    If we end up replacing them with people who mainly drive cabs and REDACTED REDACTED it will be one of the greatest acts of self-harm in British history
    That's true, it would be even worse than Brexit.

    Except it's not going to happen of course; British Jews are not going to leave en masse.

    But I do agree with the sentiment that we need to clamp down on and and all anti-Semitic abuse.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.
  • turbotubbsturbotubbs Posts: 17,428
    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

    'Writing on X, formerly Twitter, Braverman defended her proposals, saying: “The British people are compassionate. We will always support those who are genuinely homeless. But we cannot allow our streets to be taken over by rows of tents occupied by people, many of them from abroad, living on the streets as a lifestyle choice."'

    HTF is living on the streets a lifestyle choice,

    Few people even those who a mentally ill would regard living on the streets a choice - they are only doing it because everything else has failed and chances are whatever services exist locally to care for people with such needs are running well beyond capacity.
    It’s not a lifestyle choice, but it can result from poor choices over a lifetime. But anyone on the streets needs societies help, not it’s opprobrium. Often these are people who are hard to help, and most end up with addiction issues, but we shouldn’t attack them, we should do our best for them.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
    There is a campaign for him to do that; he should swallow his pride and do it
    Ah, not happening then.
  • AnabobazinaAnabobazina Posts: 23,486
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    What reason did he give for changing its name? As you say, Twitter was/is a strong brand. X could be anything. In fact, it looks like the button you click to close down an app
  • Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The Scottish LibDems are a bizarre opportunistic party without any obvious identity other than "we're not them, or them, or them". The party in England & Wales has some discernible identity but Scotland is weird. I never understood why they didn't decide to become "the party of devo-max" which would suit the wider LibDem philosophy perfectly.
    SLab’s condition in microcosm, the devo-maxers (and small amount of Indy supporters) have left leaving a hard Unionist rump. They and the SCons are all scared of giving ground on the Unionist vote which after all is 50%+.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    I rather like Gove’s comment to the effect that Dorries is successful writer of fiction!

    …..the opportunity to use their talents in the service of their country, they began to operate what they called 'The Operation'... They would select a victim and then threaten to beat him up if he paid the so-called protection money. Four months later they started another operation which the called 'The Other Operation'. In this racket they selected another victim and threatened not to beat him up if he didn't pay them. One month later they hit upon 'The Other Other Operation'. In this the victim was threatened that if he didn't pay them, they would beat him up. This for the Piranha brothers was the turning point.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Yes. Sad, but true. This coalition was matched by Boris and I suspect lost by Sunak. Starmer's success or failure will depend on bringing and keeping them onside.
  • rcs1000rcs1000 Posts: 57,202
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    Twitter is surviving.

    On the other hand, it isn't thriving: It's lost users and revenues.

    It also has a shit ton of debt that needs to be refinanced at much higher interest rates.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    What reason did he give for changing its name? As you say, Twitter was/is a strong brand. X could be anything. In fact, it looks like the button you click to close down an app
    Yeah, it's total rubbish - he's never really given a reason apart from "X looks cool"

    I generally defend Musk - I reckon he is a pukka genius, and properly entrepreneurial, a Thomas Edison of our time with a dash of Nik Tesla, but he does make bizarre mistakes, and go way off the rails, and this is a clear and major mistake. He gains nothing from calling it "X" and loses a lot in terms of branding

    Also, most people are still resolutely calling it Twitter, so I'm not sure it works even on that basic level
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217

    Leon said:

    With Hezbollah bottling it, we are left with the mystery of why Hamas did October 7

    The result was bound to be an overwhelming Israel strike back. Levelling Gaza and destroying Hamas

    This would’ve made sense if Hamas had some grander plan to involve the wider Middle East. But if that was gonna happen it would have happened by now. And Hezbollah would have been first

    So what now? Tens of thousands will die and Gaza will be razed and Hamas will gain…. What?

    Was it all some terrible miscalculation? Was it a military raid that got out of hand?

    Various possibilities. I wouldn't overlook the Iran-Russia axis though.

    What Russia needs most right now is to stop Western, and particularly American aid to Ukraine. Is it a coincidence that the raid in Israel came only days after the new US House Speaker was elected - someone who's previously been anti-Ukraine aid (but pro-Israel)? In the inability of engaging directly in the US political debate, what better than providing a distraction with something that hits at American (and Republican) emotions?

    What does Iran get out of that? Well, bashing Israel for one, obviously; also more sales of military kit to Russia. But perhaps that explains why Hezbollah *haven't* joined the fight, despite the fact that Iran has even more influence there than over Hamas - they don't want an Israeli (or American) military response while still building their nuclear capacity. They can plausibly deny being behind it with a "see, if it was us then Hezbollah would have been involved too". Iran would also like to stop the rapprochment between Israel and Saudi (and other Arab states), and a Gaza-Israel war is handy to that end too (though not as effective so far as might have been anticipated).

    What's in it for Hamas? Killing Jews. They're a genocidal terrorist organisation who are happy to sacrifice their people in pursuit of ethnic cleansing.
    Iran gets continued turmoil in the Middle East, and potentially shattering the Israel-Arab Country peace processes.
  • Chris said:

    eek said:

    Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

    'Writing on X, formerly Twitter, Braverman defended her proposals, saying: “The British people are compassionate. We will always support those who are genuinely homeless. But we cannot allow our streets to be taken over by rows of tents occupied by people, many of them from abroad, living on the streets as a lifestyle choice."'

    HTF is living on the streets a lifestyle choice,

    Few people even those who a mentally ill would regard living on the streets a choice - they are only doing it because everything else has failed and chances are whatever services exist locally to care for people with such needs are running well beyond capacity.
    Even the Tory membership might think it was going a bit far to take away a homeless person's tent if they were homeless through no fault of their own?
    Trouble is that, once you start othering and blaming the others, you have to have a criterion of where to stop.

    It's possible to do that, but much easier just to slide into Hell.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    Foxy said:

    viewcode said:

    Occasionally. I do try to read them (@Alanbrooke's are jolly although I usually disagree with him) but mostly I speed-run thru them depending on content and author. But some of the ones are betting-critical, with @OnlyLivingBoy 's piece[1] of a few months ago being very relevant IMHO

    I frequently criticise PB's evolution from a political betting site concerned with odds to a partisan site advocating policy, and as OGH ages out this will continue to be a problem. But there are diamonds in the rough and it's worth looking out for them. @Quincel produces nothing but diamonds so it's worth pointing it out.

    [1] https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/17/why-labours-chances-of-winning-a-majority-are-more-than-50/
    One of the practical issues writing PB headers is the paucity of betting events. With the byelections out of the way there simply aren't many current active markets.

    2024 will be very different as election fever builds here, and the US starts its Primaries.
    Yes, I agree. But we don't pay the same attention to non-Anglophone elections (which could have saved us in 2023) and it's a long time between now and POTUS24 (Nov24) and UKGE24 (Oct24?)
  • Luckyguy1983Luckyguy1983 Posts: 28,475
    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The same was true of the 'White helmets' of Syria fame, but nobody was interested then.
  • TheuniondivvieTheuniondivvie Posts: 41,988
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
    There is a campaign for him to do that; he should swallow his pride and do it
    There not being a replacement verb for tweet/tweeting is half the problem. He just didn’t think it through.

    The X logo looking like a teenager has shot his load over it doesn’t help, though delightfully appropriate.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Carl Heneghan eviscerates the Covid Inquiry.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-needed-a-covid-inquiry-but-this-isnt-it/

    I predict many on here will simply play the man but he raises a lot of good points. Firstly the inquiry is essential. We saw the most draconian clampdown on liberties we've ever known, it cost huge sums of money and many people died or otherwise had their lives badly damaged. A fully open-minded inquiry is a first order priority. Is this what we are getting? Or has the inquiry basically started from an assumption of what should have been done and is now just trying to confirm the established (establishment?) consensus by joining the dots. The KC focusing on rude whatsapp messages involving the Prime minister and his closest advisers being the main highlight.

    Heneghan bemoans that he had his credentials questioned, had his written submission ignored and that most of the focus of the session was on the 'Great Barrington Declaration' which he didn't even sign. Nearly 4 years on we can look at analysis from all different countries to assess what may have been the most efficacious approach. However the fact is that the only notable person I've seen on social media sharing information from the inquiry is Alastair Campbell, unsurprising as he's someone who gets up every morning to hate the Tories more but doesn't seem to be offering anything more enlightening than Dominic Cummings' foul mouth. Maybe that should tell us something?

    Perhaps the plan is to give the establishment a clean bill of health and point out that any mistakes that were made were due to 'populist right' forces that had entered Downing St. The idea that we were dealing with a very difficult situation and so mistakes were inevitable isn't really acceptable nowadays so I can understand the mentality, not least in the general consensus (groupthink?) of the scientific advisers.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,656
    edited November 2023
    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited November 2023

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
    There is a campaign for him to do that; he should swallow his pride and do it
    There not being a replacement verb for tweet/tweeting is half the problem. He just didn’t think it through.

    The X logo looking like a teenager has shot his load over it doesn’t help, though delightfully appropriate.
    Indeed

    He actually tried to get us to say "xeeting" at one point. I mean, how do you even say that without sounding like you're on the bog with the runs and trying to describe it to a close friend outside the cubicle

    He can keep the URL as x.com if he insists - but he would be best advised to change the name back to Twitter
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited November 2023
    Pakistan have beaten NZ with Duckworth Lewis. Means several teams have avoided being eliminated, including England.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    Twitter is surviving.

    On the other hand, it isn't thriving: It's lost users and revenues.

    It also has a shit ton of debt that needs to be refinanced at much higher interest rates.
    Yes, it has problems, but then so does Facebook

    It will be interesting to see whereMuske takes it as a universal app. and also how he integrates the new xAI

    The latter could be crucial in making it a massive success, there are so many possibilities, and he is nothing if not experimental

    I can see Musk being the first mogul to release a properly powerful, un-nerfed AI
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The Scottish LibDems are a bizarre opportunistic party without any obvious identity other than "we're not them, or them, or them". The party in England & Wales has some discernible identity but Scotland is weird. I never understood why they didn't decide to become "the party of devo-max" which would suit the wider LibDem philosophy perfectly.
    SLab’s condition in microcosm, the devo-maxers (and small amount of Indy supporters) have left leaving a hard Unionist rump. They and the SCons are all scared of giving ground on the Unionist vote which after all is 50%+.
    SLab wouldn't now be polling 30-35% (and the SNP about the same) if it hadn't won back some pro independence supporters from the SNP
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    John Scalzi on the Republicans.

    ...This is the problem with the recent conservative trick of offering things up for a vote without the intention or expectation of winning, and then not having a plan for when you do win... Modern conservatives can’t govern; they can only signal. That’s the only thing they know how to do any more....

    ...The GOP’s problems remain the same: They can’t govern, don’t know how to govern, and too many of their members in the House honestly have no interest in governing. They don’t have enough numbers to control those among them who just like starting fires. So they are going to burn...


    Substitute the Americanisms for their British equivalent and you see my problem with the current incarnation of Conservatism.

    https://whatever.scalzi.com/2023/10/04/the-unlamented-former-speaker/
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    'In the 1996 election, Clinton won the lowest-income voters—those making $15,000 a year or less — by 31 points. The highest-income voters went for Republican Bob Dole by 16 points, an income divide of 47 points.
    Flash forward a quarter-century, and how much money you make no longer dictates how you vote. In the 2020 election, Joe Biden won the poorest voters—those making under $30,000 a year — by 8 points, while Biden split the highest-earning voters evenly with Trump — an income divide of just 8 points.

    Today, the class war is over education, and the college diploma is the key dividing line in elections. But with an important difference: Partisanship now runs in the opposite direction. The more highly you rank in terms of educational attainment, the more Democratic you vote. This shift has been so strong, so inexorable, that it has whittled down the economic divide that defined 20th-century politics to practically nothing.'

  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,348

    Carl Heneghan eviscerates the Covid Inquiry.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-needed-a-covid-inquiry-but-this-isnt-it/

    I predict many on here will simply play the man but he raises a lot of good points. Firstly the inquiry is essential. We saw the most draconian clampdown on liberties we've ever known, it cost huge sums of money and many people died or otherwise had their lives badly damaged. A fully open-minded inquiry is a first order priority. Is this what we are getting? Or has the inquiry basically started from an assumption of what should have been done and is now just trying to confirm the established (establishment?) consensus by joining the dots. The KC focusing on rude whatsapp messages involving the Prime minister and his closest advisers being the main highlight.

    Heneghan bemoans that he had his credentials questioned, had his written submission ignored and that most of the focus of the session was on the 'Great Barrington Declaration' which he didn't even sign. Nearly 4 years on we can look at analysis from all different countries to assess what may have been the most efficacious approach. However the fact is that the only notable person I've seen on social media sharing information from the inquiry is Alastair Campbell, unsurprising as he's someone who gets up every morning to hate the Tories more but doesn't seem to be offering anything more enlightening than Dominic Cummings' foul mouth. Maybe that should tell us something?

    Perhaps the plan is to give the establishment a clean bill of health and point out that any mistakes that were made were due to 'populist right' forces that had entered Downing St. The idea that we were dealing with a very difficult situation and so mistakes were inevitable isn't really acceptable nowadays so I can understand the mentality, not least in the general consensus (groupthink?) of the scientific advisers.

    The main thing we have learnt from the enquiry is that civil servants and advisors were legends in their own minds as much as the politicians

    The actual events and decisions are too toxic for all involved to want to talk about.
  • Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    I assume he could change it back if he fancied. Twitter, formerly know as Twitter.
    There is a campaign for him to do that; he should swallow his pride and do it
    There not being a replacement verb for tweet/tweeting is half the problem. He just didn’t think it through.

    The X logo looking like a teenager has shot his load over it doesn’t help, though delightfully appropriate.
    Indeed

    He actually tried to get us to say "xeeting" at one point. I mean, how do you even say that without sounding like you're on the bog with the runs and trying to describe it to a close friend outside the cubicle

    He can keep the URL as x.com if he insists - but he would be best advised to change the name back to Twitter
    There's history between Musk and x.com; think Charles Foster Kane and Rosebud. But Musk doesn't seem to have anyone whose advice he is prepared to heed. He needs a Bernstein to his Kane, a Wilson to his Mainwaring.
  • JosiasJessopJosiasJessop Posts: 42,672

    Carl Heneghan eviscerates the Covid Inquiry.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-needed-a-covid-inquiry-but-this-isnt-it/

    I predict many on here will simply play the man but he raises a lot of good points. Firstly the inquiry is essential. We saw the most draconian clampdown on liberties we've ever known, it cost huge sums of money and many people died or otherwise had their lives badly damaged. A fully open-minded inquiry is a first order priority. Is this what we are getting? Or has the inquiry basically started from an assumption of what should have been done and is now just trying to confirm the established (establishment?) consensus by joining the dots. The KC focusing on rude whatsapp messages involving the Prime minister and his closest advisers being the main highlight.

    Heneghan bemoans that he had his credentials questioned, had his written submission ignored and that most of the focus of the session was on the 'Great Barrington Declaration' which he didn't even sign. Nearly 4 years on we can look at analysis from all different countries to assess what may have been the most efficacious approach. However the fact is that the only notable person I've seen on social media sharing information from the inquiry is Alastair Campbell, unsurprising as he's someone who gets up every morning to hate the Tories more but doesn't seem to be offering anything more enlightening than Dominic Cummings' foul mouth. Maybe that should tell us something?

    Perhaps the plan is to give the establishment a clean bill of health and point out that any mistakes that were made were due to 'populist right' forces that had entered Downing St. The idea that we were dealing with a very difficult situation and so mistakes were inevitable isn't really acceptable nowadays so I can understand the mentality, not least in the general consensus (groupthink?) of the scientific advisers.

    I've had a bit of a downer on this inquiry since it was announced; it seems designed to generate far more heat than true light, and could hamstring future governments considerably - and in a negative way next time we're faced with a time-critical, information-light crisis.

    But worst, for me, is the fact that it lets a true villain in this piece totally off the hook.

    China.

    I don't think Covid was an engineered disease, nor a natural one that 'escaped' from a lab, but accident or design. (*) But there can be little doubt that their attempts to cover up what was happening in late 2019 through to mid-2020 led to millions more deaths than were necessary. And our attempt to destroy politicians and others who were faced with a terrible crisis that contained impossible decisions, lets the Chinese utterly off the hook.

    (*) I could change my mind on this.
  • HYUFD said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The Scottish LibDems are a bizarre opportunistic party without any obvious identity other than "we're not them, or them, or them". The party in England & Wales has some discernible identity but Scotland is weird. I never understood why they didn't decide to become "the party of devo-max" which would suit the wider LibDem philosophy perfectly.
    SLab’s condition in microcosm, the devo-maxers (and small amount of Indy supporters) have left leaving a hard Unionist rump. They and the SCons are all scared of giving ground on the Unionist vote which after all is 50%+.
    SLab wouldn't now be polling 30-35% (and the SNP about the same) if it hadn't won back some pro independence supporters from the SNP
    Yebbut polling has consistently shown that 20-30% of SLab voters support indy, even when they were in the 20s. Their mixed messaging of vote progressive Labour for real change and vote Labour, protector of the Union, has utility, but I imagine the first promise is the one more likely to be dumped. The CLPs in Scotland are already restless over Gaza.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited November 2023
    The govt really should have introduced an IMMEDIATE muzzling order. How many will be seriously injured/die between now and January 2024, and for what purpose?


    "A man and woman have been taken to hospital with serious injuries after a suspected American bully XL attack.

    Nottinghamshire Police was called to the Hickling Court area of Mansfield shortly after 23:00 GMT on Friday, following reports a large dog had attacked people and was on the loose."

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-67320107
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098

    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.

    Labour MPs elected under FPTP when Labour win a clear majority are not going to vote to lose their seats via PR transferring them to LDs and Greens
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    HYUFD said:

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    'In the 1996 election, Clinton won the lowest-income voters—those making $15,000 a year or less — by 31 points. The highest-income voters went for Republican Bob Dole by 16 points, an income divide of 47 points.
    Flash forward a quarter-century, and how much money you make no longer dictates how you vote. In the 2020 election, Joe Biden won the poorest voters—those making under $30,000 a year — by 8 points, while Biden split the highest-earning voters evenly with Trump — an income divide of just 8 points.

    Today, the class war is over education, and the college diploma is the key dividing line in elections. But with an important difference: Partisanship now runs in the opposite direction. The more highly you rank in terms of educational attainment, the more Democratic you vote. This shift has been so strong, so inexorable, that it has whittled down the economic divide that defined 20th-century politics to practically nothing.'

    I know. It's horrible. The divorce by the working-class from the neglectful Labour Party to the seductive Conservatives is real and (as pointed out by John Curtice in the 2010s) has been going on for some time. It'll end in tears, but between now and then it's gonna suck.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour government however even a hard right Tory leader can win, as Thatcher did in 1979
  • eekeek Posts: 28,390
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    X / twitter is now a toilet of inaccurate rumours claiming to be news.

    Problem is bluesky isn't quite there yet..
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Are you the ghost of George Bush, having moved on from broccoli !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzyIbmyM78
    Although when it comes to George Bush and vegetables, you beat Dan Quayle's...issue with potatoes.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited November 2023

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    Yes, we should be more welcoming to refugees and their descendents. They shouldn't have to stop in the first "safe" country.

    That is what you meant, isn't it?


    And yet so many of them appear to have different values to us.


  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,192
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.

    Aside from the big financial hit, its business is holding up reasonably well.
    But it faces serious commercial competition from other platforms.

    https://www.research-live.com/article/features/x-marks-the-spot-one-year-on-from-twitters-takeover/id/5118653
    ...It is TikTok that might pose the biggest concern for X in the long run, says Fazekas. “Most users are not affected by the whole theatre around what Elon Musk is trying to do. We see Twitter being very important still in our research. It is one of the many sources – but if you were to ask me which one is the most important currently, I would say TikTok. TikTok is coming up and genuinely taking away market share in terms of relevance and depth of content, and so is Reddit – Reddit can be underestimated.

    “It was never enough to look just at Twitter. Not five years ago or 10 years ago – it was never sufficient as you always got a slice of the conversation. That is probably even more true today, as Twitter is losing some of its relevance. You can’t see that in the numbers – we know this from discourse. We have not seen numbers dropping, but we are seeing alternative platforms emerging very quickly.”..


  • eekeek Posts: 28,390
    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    Yet you will spend a large number of months next year campaigning for the Tory party while knowing that after the next elect someone with that utter lack of compassion and crass stupidity is likely to become leader in Opposition.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,667
    HYUFD said:

    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.

    Labour MPs elected under FPTP when Labour win a clear majority are not going to vote to lose their seats via PR transferring them to LDs and Greens
    It's a good point.

    Perhaps Sunak should bring in PR now to prevent a Labour majority and also reduce the number of Tory losses?

    I know the Tories have always been opposed to PR but as Sunak told the party conference "the right thing to do when the facts change is to have the courage to change direction" - and the facts now indicate the Tories are doomed.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited November 2023
    eek said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    Yet you will spend a large number of months next year campaigning for the Tory party while knowing that after the next elect someone with that utter lack of compassion and crass stupidity is likely to become leader in Opposition.
    If it was down to members alone maybe but it isn't, only 27 Tory MPs voted for Braverman in last summer's leadership election and she was eliminated in the 2nd round. Even Tugendhat with 32 Tory MPs beat her
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
    Why are you focusing on right wing?

    Are you suggesting there is no left wing disinformation on there? Or was that always there anyway? And if so is it more tolerable?
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    Carl Heneghan eviscerates the Covid Inquiry.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-needed-a-covid-inquiry-but-this-isnt-it/

    I predict many on here will simply play the man but he raises a lot of good points. Firstly the inquiry is essential. We saw the most draconian clampdown on liberties we've ever known, it cost huge sums of money and many people died or otherwise had their lives badly damaged. A fully open-minded inquiry is a first order priority. Is this what we are getting? Or has the inquiry basically started from an assumption of what should have been done and is now just trying to confirm the established (establishment?) consensus by joining the dots. The KC focusing on rude whatsapp messages involving the Prime minister and his closest advisers being the main highlight.

    Heneghan bemoans that he had his credentials questioned, had his written submission ignored and that most of the focus of the session was on the 'Great Barrington Declaration' which he didn't even sign. Nearly 4 years on we can look at analysis from all different countries to assess what may have been the most efficacious approach. However the fact is that the only notable person I've seen on social media sharing information from the inquiry is Alastair Campbell, unsurprising as he's someone who gets up every morning to hate the Tories more but doesn't seem to be offering anything more enlightening than Dominic Cummings' foul mouth. Maybe that should tell us something?

    Perhaps the plan is to give the establishment a clean bill of health and point out that any mistakes that were made were due to 'populist right' forces that had entered Downing St. The idea that we were dealing with a very difficult situation and so mistakes were inevitable isn't really acceptable nowadays so I can understand the mentality, not least in the general consensus (groupthink?) of the scientific advisers.

    The main thing we have learnt from the enquiry is that civil servants and advisors were legends in their own minds as much as the politicians

    The actual events and decisions are too toxic for all involved to want to talk about.
    I haven't learned that.

    I knew it already.

    Although I do hope that the enquiry will invite Susan Acland-Hood to explain herself.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    rcs1000 said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.




    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    Twitter is surviving.

    On the other hand, it isn't thriving: It's lost users and revenues.

    It also has a shit ton of debt that needs to be refinanced at much higher interest rates.
    Banks are doing crazy shit

    I know someone who has just refinanced $4bn with a new bank at the same spread as he got in 2019 (+450bps)
  • TresTres Posts: 2,702
    edited November 2023

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
    Why are you focusing on right wing?

    Are you suggesting there is no left wing disinformation on there? Or was that always there anyway? And if so is it more tolerable?
    it's the right wing stuff that the new owner loves to promote
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
    Why are you focusing on right wing?

    Are you suggesting there is no left wing disinformation on there? Or was that always there anyway? And if so is it more tolerable?
    Because that is what @Leon was expressing interest in.

    Yes, the amount of left wing antisemitism etc has increased too.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098

    HYUFD said:

    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.

    Labour MPs elected under FPTP when Labour win a clear majority are not going to vote to lose their seats via PR transferring them to LDs and Greens
    It's a good point.

    Perhaps Sunak should bring in PR now to prevent a Labour majority and also reduce the number of Tory losses?

    I know the Tories have always been opposed to PR but as Sunak told the party conference "the right thing to do when the facts change is to have the courage to change direction" - and the facts now indicate the Tories are doomed.
    If the Tories introduced PR for the next general election, Farage would almost certainly return to lead RefUK and a Farage led RefUK could therefore have a chance of even beating Sunak's Tories to become the main party of the right a la Canada 1993 and the main Opposition to a Starmer government
  • HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    We'll have to see what happens.

    Hopefully, Sunak will squash this silly idea, "What the Home Secretary meant was..." Suella may well flounce off in a huff, but at the moment she is behaving like the kid who wants to be expelled.

    The other possibilities are that Sunak hates this but is too weak to ditch the XS Bully (bad), or he agrees with this stuff (worse, but it's what they would do in America, and he wants to be in America.)
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,239
    edited November 2023
    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    What reason did he give for changing its name? As you say, Twitter was/is a strong brand. X could be anything. In fact, it looks like the button you click to close down an app
    Yeah, it's total rubbish - he's never really given a reason apart from "X looks cool"
    Oh, he has a reason. His reason is that he wants to use it for another attempt at his 20-year old vision of X.com as a financial services app, with a dash of Chinese-style "everything app" thrown in. It won't work, but that's his big idea.

    As ever, Dril put it best: "this web site is certianly on track to replace Banks, as it now struggles to maintain the functionality of a 30 year old geocities guestbook"
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.

    Aside from the big financial hit, its business is holding up reasonably well.
    But it faces serious commercial competition from other platforms.

    https://www.research-live.com/article/features/x-marks-the-spot-one-year-on-from-twitters-takeover/id/5118653
    ...It is TikTok that might pose the biggest concern for X in the long run, says Fazekas. “Most users are not affected by the whole theatre around what Elon Musk is trying to do. We see Twitter being very important still in our research. It is one of the many sources – but if you were to ask me which one is the most important currently, I would say TikTok. TikTok is coming up and genuinely taking away market share in terms of relevance and depth of content, and so is Reddit – Reddit can be underestimated.

    “It was never enough to look just at Twitter. Not five years ago or 10 years ago – it was never sufficient as you always got a slice of the conversation. That is probably even more true today, as Twitter is losing some of its relevance. You can’t see that in the numbers – we know this from discourse. We have not seen numbers dropping, but we are seeing alternative platforms emerging very quickly.”..


    Watch Reddit. It is getting better all the time at really in-depth debate, and seems to be good at self-policing misinfo or excluding ugly content

    I go to Reddit quite a lot, and increasingly - for niche but expert debates on AI, UAP, economics, various wars, etc. And so do experts in those fields

    The trouble is, as ever, it doesn't have the wide "public square" dimension of TwitterX, the sense you can speak to the world, and the world will hear, and you will encounter opinions on anything from anyone. I don't think TikTok provides that either, and blueksy and mastodon (lol) are no good, they are dismal Woke ghettos

    As for Threads it is too Facebooky and linked to Insta, also I've noticed that angry lefties who quit Twitter for Threads haven't just quit Twitter, they have largely disappeared. An example is David Allen Green, the lefty lawyer (who is a smart, lucid commenter). He flamboyantly departed Twitter a while back and decamped to Threads, but if you check his Threads account he has about a tenth the followers he had on Twitter and rarely bothers saying anything. He does have a substack but I wonder how he promotes it without social media?

    Twitter does not face a mortal rival yet - but one day, of course, it will. Nineveh and Tyre, Nineveh and Tyre
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    @AndyJS

    A quick question. Does "Black Mass" (John Gray 2008) feed into the ideas presented in "The New Leviathans : thoughts after liberalism" (John Gray 2023)? I'm looking to see if his work constitutes a coherent whole or whether it's bitty and doesn't join up.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    We'll have to see what happens.

    Hopefully, Sunak will squash this silly idea, "What the Home Secretary meant was..." Suella may well flounce off in a huff, but at the moment she is behaving like the kid who wants to be expelled.

    The other possibilities are that Sunak hates this but is too weak to ditch the XS Bully (bad), or he agrees with this stuff (worse, but it's what they would do in America, and he wants to be in America.)
    It's when Sunak decides we need our own 2nd Ammendment that he really will be down the American Alt Right rabbit hole.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    We'll have to see what happens.

    Hopefully, Sunak will squash this silly idea, "What the Home Secretary meant was..." Suella may well flounce off in a huff, but at the moment she is behaving like the kid who wants to be expelled.

    The other possibilities are that Sunak hates this but is too weak to ditch the XS Bully (bad), or he agrees with this stuff (worse, but it's what they would do in America, and he wants to be in America.)
    A man who appointed Braverman, Williamson, Zahawi, Raab and Shapps to senior positions in his cabinet, cancelled a railway line because he wanted more trains, announced his pride in Tory education policy before completely abandoning the key part of it and who weirdly obsesses with spreadsheets and AI is not going to squash an idea merely because it's silly.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 23,217
    ydoethur said:

    MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Are you the ghost of George Bush, having moved on from broccoli !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzyIbmyM78
    Although when it comes to George Bush and vegetables, you beat Dan Quayle's...issue with potatoes.
    It's a great little 50 second video.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    We'll have to see what happens.

    Hopefully, Sunak will squash this silly idea, "What the Home Secretary meant was..." Suella may well flounce off in a huff, but at the moment she is behaving like the kid who wants to be expelled.

    The other possibilities are that Sunak hates this but is too weak to ditch the XS Bully (bad), or he agrees with this stuff (worse, but it's what they would do in America, and he wants to be in America.)
    It's when Sunak decides we need our own 2nd Ammendment that he really will be down the American Alt Right rabbit hole.
    At that point hopefully his party will get shot of him.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,429
    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
    Why are you focusing on right wing?

    Are you suggesting there is no left wing disinformation on there? Or was that always there anyway? And if so is it more tolerable?
    Because that is what @Leon was expressing interest in.

    Yes, the amount of left wing antisemitism etc has increased too.
    No, I wasn't I just said in your normal parochial way you have only noticed misinfo coz it comes from the right AS WELL these days, along with info which is perfectly true but makes you uncomfortable, and was previously filtered out by Twitter's leftwing bias

    There is no more misinfo on Twitter than on any other big social media platform. There IS, however, more misinfo on ALL platforms but that is because it is getting so much easier to produce it and broadcast it, mainly thanks to AI. This is a real problem, but it is hardly restricted to "sites owned by Elon Musk"
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    edited November 2023
    viewcode said:

    @AndyJS

    A quick question. Does "Black Mass" (John Gray 2008) feed into the ideas presented in "The New Leviathans : thoughts after liberalism" (John Gray 2023)? I'm looking to see if his work constitutes a coherent whole or whether it's bitty and doesn't join up.

    I think most of his books since about 1998 have had similar themes. It's worth watching some of his interviews on YouTube, such as this one about populism from 2019 imo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hC5nXXJrV8
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    Leon said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    What reason did he give for changing its name? As you say, Twitter was/is a strong brand. X could be anything. In fact, it looks like the button you click to close down an app
    Yeah, it's total rubbish - he's never really given a reason apart from "X looks cool"
    Oh, he has a reason. His reason is that he wants to use it for another attempt at his 20-year old vision of X.com as a financial services app, with a dash of Chinese-style "everything app" thrown in. It won't work, but that's his big idea.

    As ever, Dril put it best: "this web site is certianly on track to replace Banks, as it now struggles to maintain the functionality of a 30 year old geocities guestbook"
    Both Musk and Meta fail by wanting to link all into one universal data set, mostly for crossmarketing, hence Threads requires Instagram etc.

    The reality is that people do not want everything linked. They might want to keep politics away from work like myself for example, as I do. With one or two exceptions I have no idea how my work colleagues vote, and want to keep it that way.
  • MarqueeMarkMarqueeMark Posts: 52,595
    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.
    Friends Reunited. Bought by ITV (?!?) for £175m in 2005. Sold for £25m in 2009.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585
    HYUFD said:

    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.

    Labour MPs elected under FPTP when Labour win a clear majority are not going to vote to lose their seats via PR transferring them to LDs and Greens
    That's why they didn't introduce it after 1997. They should have done because it probably would have allowed them to stay in power after 2010.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    Section 28?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    edited November 2023

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    Thatcher most certainly was hard right, certainly by the standards of the 1970s. On economics she was the most small state, low tax leader the Tories had had since universal suffrage and even on social issues she was well to the right of Sunak now.

    She was considered unelectable in 1975 against Wilson and Callaghan after ousting the more centrist Heath to become Conservative leader, only Labour's poor economic management saw her win
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 123,098
    Andy_JS said:

    HYUFD said:

    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.

    Labour MPs elected under FPTP when Labour win a clear majority are not going to vote to lose their seats via PR transferring them to LDs and Greens
    That's why they didn't introduce it after 1997. They should have done because it probably would have allowed them to stay in power after 2010.
    It wouldn't as the LDs under Clegg would still have had the balance of power and still have gone with Cameron's Tories
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Interesting read, noting as many of us have that education level and social values are replacing economic values, as key determinants of voting intention.

    Also another piece on the same site, noting that an anti-Trump PAC made and then shelved four ads critising his legal troubles, as they totally backfired with test audiences.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/03/anti-trump-group-ads-backfired-00125087
    I know someone who has backed Trump on the theory that his legal woes will fire up his voters. Your story suggests my punter is on to something.
    I think it will definitely fire up primary voters, but could still go either way at the general election, depending on exactly how events play out in the next 12 months.

    What’s definitely true though, is that an awful lot of Americans don’t feel better off today than they did four years ago.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,107
    Andy_JS said:

    viewcode said:

    @AndyJS

    A quick question. Does "Black Mass" (John Gray 2008) feed into the ideas presented in "The New Leviathans : thoughts after liberalism" (John Gray 2023)? I'm looking to see if his work constitutes a coherent whole or whether it's bitty and doesn't join up.

    I think most of his books since about 1998 have had similar themes. It's worth watching some of his interviews on YouTube, such as this one about populism from 2019 imo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hC5nXXJrV8
    Excellent, thank you. I'm leafing thru "Black Mass" and annoyingly he doesn't have an intro and a conclusions section (bloody philosophers!) so I'm going to have to read the whole thing to get a read on it. Dammit. Still, let's plough through
  • squareroot2squareroot2 Posts: 6,724

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.
    Friends Reunited. Bought by ITV (?!?) for £175m in 2005. Sold for £25m in 2009.
    Lucky to get 25m
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Interesting read, noting as many of us have that education level and social values are replacing economic values, as key determinants of voting intention.

    Also another piece on the same site, noting that an anti-Trump PAC made and then shelved four ads critising his legal troubles, as they totally backfired with test audiences.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/03/anti-trump-group-ads-backfired-00125087
    I know someone who has backed Trump on the theory that his legal woes will fire up his voters. Your story suggests my punter is on to something.
    I think it will definitely fire up primary voters, but could still go either way at the general election, depending on exactly how events play out in the next 12 months.

    What’s definitely true though, is that an awful lot of Americans don’t feel better off today than they did four years ago.
    Not just Americans, which is why incumbent governments are getting a pasting everywhere, no matter their politics.

    And why a Labour landslide looks on the cards here.
  • Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    Section 28?
    She was of her time. And attitudes to gays moved very very quickly.

    But she also did that infamous sermon on the Good Samaritan. And I don't think that included a bit about foreigners making bad lifestyle choices.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,585

    Carl Heneghan eviscerates the Covid Inquiry.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/we-needed-a-covid-inquiry-but-this-isnt-it/

    I predict many on here will simply play the man but he raises a lot of good points. Firstly the inquiry is essential. We saw the most draconian clampdown on liberties we've ever known, it cost huge sums of money and many people died or otherwise had their lives badly damaged. A fully open-minded inquiry is a first order priority. Is this what we are getting? Or has the inquiry basically started from an assumption of what should have been done and is now just trying to confirm the established (establishment?) consensus by joining the dots. The KC focusing on rude whatsapp messages involving the Prime minister and his closest advisers being the main highlight.

    Heneghan bemoans that he had his credentials questioned, had his written submission ignored and that most of the focus of the session was on the 'Great Barrington Declaration' which he didn't even sign. Nearly 4 years on we can look at analysis from all different countries to assess what may have been the most efficacious approach. However the fact is that the only notable person I've seen on social media sharing information from the inquiry is Alastair Campbell, unsurprising as he's someone who gets up every morning to hate the Tories more but doesn't seem to be offering anything more enlightening than Dominic Cummings' foul mouth. Maybe that should tell us something?

    Perhaps the plan is to give the establishment a clean bill of health and point out that any mistakes that were made were due to 'populist right' forces that had entered Downing St. The idea that we were dealing with a very difficult situation and so mistakes were inevitable isn't really acceptable nowadays so I can understand the mentality, not least in the general consensus (groupthink?) of the scientific advisers.

    I agree 100% with this. The only real point of an inquiry should be to establish whether successive lockdowns were the right thing to do, or whether they did more harm than good.
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,851
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    Suella Braverman claimed £25,000 in second home allowance while living rent free with mum and dad. Now she's cracking down on people sleeping in tents on the streets.

    https://twitter.com/David__Osland/status/1720761106124153032

    'ROUGH SLEEPING IS NOT A LIFESTYLE CHOICE - comments like the Home Secretary’s not only shows a complete lack of compassion but shows a complete lack of understanding of the causes of Roughsleeping. The choice is the Govt’s choice and a question of political will #housingfirst 👇'
    https://x.com/BrooksNewmark/status/1720803237370982612?s=20
    We'll have to see what happens.

    Hopefully, Sunak will squash this silly idea, "What the Home Secretary meant was..." Suella may well flounce off in a huff, but at the moment she is behaving like the kid who wants to be expelled.

    The other possibilities are that Sunak hates this but is too weak to ditch the XS Bully (bad), or he agrees with this stuff (worse, but it's what they would do in America, and he wants to be in America.)
    It's when Sunak decides we need our own 2nd Ammendment that he really will be down the American Alt Right rabbit hole.
    So never then.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,706
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Sure, if you like a sewer of right wing conspiracy and hate, then it is right up your street. Enjoy.
    Why are you focusing on right wing?

    Are you suggesting there is no left wing disinformation on there? Or was that always there anyway? And if so is it more tolerable?
    Because that is what @Leon was expressing interest in.

    Yes, the amount of left wing antisemitism etc has increased too.
    No, I wasn't I just said in your normal parochial way you have only noticed misinfo coz it comes from the right AS WELL these days, along with info which is perfectly true but makes you uncomfortable, and was previously filtered out by Twitter's leftwing bias

    There is no more misinfo on Twitter than on any other big social media platform. There IS, however, more misinfo on ALL platforms but that is because it is getting so much easier to produce it and broadcast it, mainly thanks to AI. This is a real problem, but it is hardly restricted to "sites owned by Elon Musk"
    It is a problem on all social media. Bollocks from both left and right drive clicks, hence are prioritised by algorithms.
  • Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    Yes, we should be more welcoming to refugees and their descendents. They shouldn't have to stop in the first "safe" country.

    That is what you meant, isn't it?


    And yet so many of them appear to have different values to us.


    Lots of folk on here have different values to each other, different values is fine. It only goes bad when one ‘us’ says their values are the good sort.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy


    Section 28?
    A mistake in hindsight although one which had wide support at the time.

    From wiki


    In an interview with gay magazine Attitude at the time of the 2005 general election, Michael Howard, then-Leader of the Conservative Party, commented: "[Section 28] was brought in to deal with what was seen to be a specific problem at the time. The problem was the kind of literature that was being used in some schools and distributed to very young children that was seen to promote homosexuality... I thought, rightly or wrongly, that there was a problem in those days. That problem simply doesn't exist now. Nobody's fussed about those issues any more. It's not a problem, so the law shouldn't be hanging around on the statute book".
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,421
    Fuck's sake, Dawid Malan.

    With England, it's the hope that kills you.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    Thatcher most certainly was hard right, certainly by the standards of the 1970s. On economics she was the most small state, low tax leader the Tories had had since universal suffrage and even on social issues she was well to the right of Sunak now.

    She was considered unelectable in 1975
    against Wilson and Callaghan after ousting
    the more centrist Heath to become Conservative leader, only Labour's poor
    economic management saw her
    win
    You just play into your opponents hands by using their terminology.

    There is no question she was more on the right of the party.

    But she was not “hard right” in the sense of the NF, UKIP, BUF, Bravemann, etc

  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,595
    Foxy said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Interesting read, noting as many of us have that education level and social values are replacing economic values, as key determinants of voting intention.

    Also another piece on the same site, noting that an anti-Trump PAC made and then shelved four ads critising his legal troubles, as they totally backfired with test audiences.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/03/anti-trump-group-ads-backfired-00125087
    I know someone who has backed Trump on the theory that his legal woes will fire up his voters. Your story suggests my punter is on to something.
    I think it will definitely fire up primary voters, but could still go either way at the general election, depending on exactly how events play out in the next 12 months.

    What’s definitely true though, is that an awful lot of Americans don’t feel better off today than they did four years ago.
    Not just Americans, which is why incumbent governments are getting a pasting everywhere, no matter their politics.

    And why a Labour landslide looks on the cards here.
    Yes, incumbents across the West are going to do badly.

    The return of interest rates to something approaching normal, after more than a decade of being effectively zero, is going to take a lot of adjustment.
  • HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    If Starmer does win the next election, its the one after that that I worry about, aided and abetted by the right wing media, GB news etc, the far right are going to get more of a hearing than they should, and certainly more than they deserve, this country could well be frightening place in 5 years, with both the far left and far right getting more extreme.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281

    Foxy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    Section 28?
    She was of her time. And attitudes to gays moved very very quickly.

    But she also did that infamous sermon on
    the Good Samaritan. And I don't think that
    included a bit about foreigners making bad
    lifestyle choices.

    What is inaccurate about this comment?

    No-one would remember the Good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions; he had money as well.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
    Yes, we should be more welcoming to refugees and their descendents. They shouldn't have to stop in the first "safe" country.

    That is what you meant, isn't it?


    And yet so many of them appear to have different values to us.


    Lots of folk on here have different values to each other, different values is fine. It only
    goes bad when one ‘us’ says their values are the good sort.
    Most people on hear share the same fundamental values.

    If someone is willing to come to the UK, meld into our culture, share our values - like tolerance and democracy - that is good.

    Multiculturalism in the technical sense (“separate but equal”) has been a disaster since Blair adopted it as a principle
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,200
    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Leon said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
    Has TwitterX committed seppuku? (Not "seppukko" - lol)

    I'm not seeing it. Users are down but they might be bots. Ad spend is definitely down but then Musk knew this was the risk, and TwitterX still seems to be the go-to place for political debate, it is less slanted to the left than it was. Is all

    The one big stupid mistake Musk did make was changing the name to "X". Ridiculous. He had a great brand-name and fecked it up

    Interestingly, during the Sunak interview he seemed to acknowledge this
    Musk has lost between 50 and 90% of its monetary value in a year, while simultaneously trashing TwitterX as a reliable news feed*.

    https://fortune.com/2023/09/06/elon-musk-x-what-is-twitter-worth/

    *the lists function works well still and is easy to set up.

    I have one tab for UK medicine, another for PB and xPB posters and polling, etc. As these are my own lists I only see posts from people that I have entered in the list. The general algorithm feed is useless now.



    *
    I've got this weird feeling Twitter will survive the haughty disdain of a no-mark provincial quack in Leicester
    As I still use it in modified form then it may well do. Or it could go the way of AOL, FriendsReunited or askjeeves. Things happen quickly in the modern tech world.

    There isn't an obvious alternative at present as both mastodon and blue-sky are very clunky, but social media is marked by platforms both booming and becoming history. By making it such a sewer of hate and misinformation Musk has created an opportunity for another entrepreneur.



    It is not a sewer of hate and misinformation (or, at least, no more than before), he has simply removed the filters that prevented so many rightwing voices from being heard, and now you are exposed to them

    For us rightwingers, it was a toilet of Woke leftwing shite BEFORE he took over, but we tolerated because it is the best at what it does

    So it goes
    Correlated though because most hate and misinformation comes from rightwing voices.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,281
    mickydroy said:

    HYUFD said:

    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
    If the economy is poor under a Labour
    government however even a hard right Tory
    leader can win, as Thatcher did in
    1979
    Thatcher was in no way “hard right”

    She was fairly moderate and, even liberal on social matters, but wanted to reform the economy

    If Starmer does win the next election, its the one after that that I worry about, aided and abetted by the right wing media, GB news etc, the far right are going to get more of a hearing than they should, and certainly more than they deserve, this country could well be frightening place in 5 years, with both the far left and far right getting more extreme.
    That is possible, yes.

    Politicians should look hard at regulation of social media and especially algorithms.
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