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How viable are Green targets in 2024? Part One – politicalbetting.com

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  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,697
    edited November 2023

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    They don’t report Russian news sources as definitive fact on the Ukraine war, so I’m not sure why they’re reporting Hamas sources so uncritically, after so many times they’ve proved to be at best very exaggerated and at worst totally fabricated.

    If you can’t get your own journalists into a dangerous place, then that’s understandable - but be honest about it, and say that you have unverified claims from partisan sources. Such as the guy in the pictures above, who’s very clearly an actor.
    Makes the whole BBC (un) verified even more laughable when you are falling for stuff that is literally a meme on social media, as this guy appears daily in a different role. If you spent more than 5 mins looking through coverage on say twitter, posts laughing at him will show up repeatedly.
    I did actually think the other day, that the one thing not being discussed during this war is Twitter itself. The new management, and their very hands-off approach to moderation, means that we’re discussing whether things posted are true, false, or exaggerated, rather than talking about posts, posters, events, or subjects, being censored or banned by Twitter’s moderators.

    I suspect that old-management Twitter would have been be totally screwed by this war.
    So loads more fake stuff being published is actually a good thing?

    Great to meet you Pollyanna.

    Now do loads more racist, antisemitic and Islamophobic stuff is also good.
    No, what I’m saying is that we discover over time whether something is true or not, based on observatable facts on the ground, rather than the whim of some twenty-something in California with a very specific worldview.

    It’s not difficult to imagine that, for a couple of days at least, it would have led to deletions and bans for suggesting the hospital being hit by an Israeli missile and collapsing was totally fake news, and that suggesting it was stray missile from Palestine that burned out a few cars in the car park was Jewish propoganda.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    Carnyx said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    I like that the DM felt it needed to put the word 'sarcastically' in there to help its readers out.
    TBF that was the GRaun I was quoting ...
    Good point, my mistake, but you forced me to dip into the DM online where I see they do indeed make it clear for their hard of understanding readers:

    Last night, in a response dripping with sarcasm, Mr Cummings told the Mail: 'She's right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It's a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.'

    I now need to go an have a shower.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,627
    The Green voteshare will be up on 2019 as some who voted for Corbyn will vote Green rather than for Starmer. However beyond holding Brighton Pavilion and gaining maybe Bristol Central hard to see them gaining any more FPTP seats.

    So Starmer will not be too worried about them if he gains lots of Tory marginals instead
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    Beetroot is bad, pickled beetroot is inedible imo.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249
    Part of the problem for the Greens is that their voters in most of these areas, particularly somewhere like Bristol Central, are more likely to be young people who move around a lot for a variety of reasons.

    So although they may have a longstanding presence in the seat, a disproportionate number of the voters they need to vote for them will have moved to the seat since the last election, from seats where the Greens will be weaker, and will need convincing afresh that in this specific seat the Greens have a chance.
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,627

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853
    .
    TimS said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I’d go cheese and leek.
    Cheese and (well drained) wilted spinach, with nutmeg.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,363

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    Beetroot is bad, pickled beetroot is inedible imo.
    Beetroot, smoked salmon and horseradish cream on toasted sourdough. Start there and you will shift your opinion.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail have got a bit of a problem as well.

    For the last decade or so, they have basically got what they wanted, and it's turning out visibly badly, in ways that even they can't easily ignore.
    That's because: a) Gordon Brown (obvs) and b) the Woke Blob have undermined EVERYTHING! The damn traitors should be...
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853
    edited November 2023
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    Or perhaps he doesn't think either Nadine or DM readers do ?
    Difficult to tell.
  • Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    Oh, I'm absolutely certain that the Daily Mail will be shilling for the Conservatives at the next General election. One of the advantages of a newspaper, compared with posters to this site, is that newspapers have no sense of their own history. There is no way of reminding them of their past utterances. If someone tries, the newspaper simply ignores it and ploughs on.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252
    Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    Or perhaps he doesn't think either Nadine or DM readers do ?
    Difficult to tell.
    Well, TBF to Cummings that's probably a fairly safe assumption.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853
    Lawyers will enjoy the highlighted citation.

    During the week, Aileen Cannon told DOJ that the decisions of other judges don't bind her. So DOJ included this paragraph in their motion for advice of counsel defense.
    https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1720751484357287980
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    If I were Starmer, I'd keep my powder dry on policy for now and follow his 'don't scare the horses' approach, win the election, implement a range of progressive policies, reform taxation, and then change the voting system from FPTP to PR so the Tories (and Labour tbf) can never rule again in isolation.

    Just saying.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,002
    edited November 2023

    Fishing said:

    Fishing said:

    Dura_Ace said:



    Starmer is a shiny foreheaded, fucking gooner with great hair but I do think, one area where is he adept is holding together the warp and weft of his polychromatic coalition. There will be scant electoral opportunities for les Verts while he is at the helm of the Labour Party.

    He has held it together while in Opposition when the one thing they agree on is that they want the Conservatives out. But it'll be MUCH more difficult, perhaps impossible, to hold it together when they are in government.

    Blair managed it, but he was a once-in-a-century political genius and had lots of other people's money to buy them off with. Starmer isn't and won't have.
    Starmer's team has been far more ruthless in the candidate selection process and exclusion of dissidents than Tony Blair (or Brown or Corbyn) were, and consequently will have much less trouble in holding the PLP together when things get difficult, as of course they will. You can see that over Gaza, where the left actually has a majority of the population and the membership behind a strongly-held view that the assault on Gaza is being pursued too ruthlessly, denying even clean water to most of the civilian population. You don't have to be a Corbynite to feel uneasy that we, like Sunak, are silent except for a vague call for humanitarian pauses. Yet the revolt comes down to a handful of councillors going independent and a couple of obscure council leaders calling for his resignation, plus some MPs giving strictly off-the-record grumbles.
    That's a very interesting perspective, thanks.

    However you're talking about the PLP. The OP was more about the electoral coalition I think, and that's certainly what I referred to in my response. We've seen in the last four years the impossibility of holding together a diverse coalition without some glue (lots of public money, a charismatic leader or a compelling issue) to bind it. As Starmer doesn't have any of those I think he's going to struggle after a honeymoon period.
    Surely outside the PLP Starmer doesn't have to worry much?
    He does if he wants a second term.

    But even before the (2029?) election, he will have to worry if his coalition is falling apart. Even a PM with a large majority has limited authority over his Parliamentary Party if electoral annihilation beckons, as the current government is finding out, and as Brown discovered in 2008-9. I was a minor cog in that latter government, and well remember the sense of decay which infected just about every part of it.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,973
    Occasionally. I do try to read them (@Alanbrooke's are jolly although I usually disagree with him) but mostly I speed-run thru them depending on content and author. But some of the ones are betting-critical, with @OnlyLivingBoy 's piece[1] of a few months ago being very relevant IMHO

    I frequently criticise PB's evolution from a political betting site concerned with odds to a partisan site advocating policy, and as OGH ages out this will continue to be a problem. But there are diamonds in the rough and it's worth looking out for them. @Quincel produces nothing but diamonds so it's worth pointing it out.

    [1] https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/17/why-labours-chances-of-winning-a-majority-are-more-than-50/
  • Dura_AceDura_Ace Posts: 13,677
    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    He meant the Belarussian internal security agency. That's still КГБ.

  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    Oh, I'm absolutely certain that the Daily Mail will be shilling for the Conservatives at the next General election. One of the advantages of a newspaper, compared with posters to this site, is that newspapers have no sense of their own history. There is no way of reminding them of their past utterances. If someone tries, the newspaper simply ignores it and ploughs on.
    Indeed. But I bet "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" reminders still irritate them.
  • bondegezoubondegezou Posts: 10,914
    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    Sandpit said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    They don’t report Russian news sources as definitive fact on the Ukraine war, so I’m not sure why they’re reporting Hamas sources so uncritically, after so many times they’ve proved to be at best very exaggerated and at worst totally fabricated.

    If you can’t get your own journalists into a dangerous place, then that’s understandable - but be honest about it, and say that you have unverified claims from partisan sources. Such as the guy in the pictures above, who’s very clearly an actor.
    Makes the whole BBC (un) verified even more laughable when you are falling for stuff that is literally a meme on social media, as this guy appears daily in a different role. If you spent more than 5 mins looking through coverage on say twitter, posts laughing at him will show up repeatedly.
    I did actually think the other day, that the one thing not being discussed during this war is Twitter itself. The new management, and their very hands-off approach to moderation, means that we’re discussing whether things posted are true, false, or exaggerated, rather than talking about posts, posters, events, or subjects, being censored or banned by Twitter’s moderators.

    I suspect that old-management Twitter would have been be totally screwed by this war.
    So loads more fake stuff being published is actually a good thing?

    Great to meet you Pollyanna.

    Now do loads more racist, antisemitic and Islamophobic stuff is also good.
    No, what I’m saying is that we discover over time whether something is true or not, based on observatable facts on the ground, rather than the whim of some twenty-something in California with a very specific worldview.

    It’s not difficult to imagine that, for a couple of days at least, it would have led to deletions and bans for suggesting the hospital being hit by an Israeli missile and collapsing was totally fake news, and that suggesting it was stray missile from Palestine that burned out a few cars in the car park was Jewish propoganda.
    What about anything in the last, say, 150 years has led you to expect that the observable facts on the ground stops people believing in misinformation?
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,537
    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,249

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    Beetroot is bad, pickled beetroot is inedible imo.
    Beetroot, smoked salmon and horseradish cream on toasted sourdough. Start there and you will shift your opinion.
    We had some golden beetroot from the garden recently and it was divine. I can't think that I've ever had a better tasting vegetable.

    It really is time I baked another beetroot chocolate cake.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    Oh, I'm absolutely certain that the Daily Mail will be shilling for the Conservatives at the next General election. One of the advantages of a newspaper, compared with posters to this site, is that newspapers have no sense of their own history. There is no way of reminding them of their past utterances. If someone tries, the newspaper simply ignores it and ploughs on.
    Indeed. But I bet "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" reminders still irritate them.
    Especially since nobody seems to hold it against the paper that supported Mosley the longest.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    Beetroot is bad, pickled beetroot is inedible imo.
    Beetroot, smoked salmon and horseradish cream on toasted sourdough. Start there and you will shift your opinion.
    Tbf I exaggerated for (not very) comic effect. I don't mind a bit of beetroot julienned (ooh) in a salad. I'd probably stick to real cream cheese (not Philly) with smoked salmon though as I think horseradish can overpower it.
  • Stark_DawningStark_Dawning Posts: 9,674
    edited November 2023
    So who is Dr No? Surely it's only a matter of days before his identity is revealed, now that Nad has revealed what hitherto hardly anyone on earth knew: the very existence of Dr No.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 21,973
    malcolmg said:

    kinabalu said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    And the Head of the "Movement" is none other than Michael Gove. He brings all the "dark forces" together.
    I always thought he was more Gollum.
    Pob. Obviously
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    Or perhaps he doesn't think either Nadine or DM readers do ?
    Difficult to tell.
    It is normal to refer to the KGB and all its predecessor and successor organisations as the KGB.
  • So who is Dr No? Surely it's only a matter of days before his identity is unearthed, now that Nad has revealed what hitherto hardly anyone on earth knew: the very existence of Dr No.

    Mark McGregor or Francis Maude.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    ydoethur said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    Oh, I'm absolutely certain that the Daily Mail will be shilling for the Conservatives at the next General election. One of the advantages of a newspaper, compared with posters to this site, is that newspapers have no sense of their own history. There is no way of reminding them of their past utterances. If someone tries, the newspaper simply ignores it and ploughs on.
    Indeed. But I bet "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" reminders still irritate them.
    Especially since nobody seems to hold it against the paper that supported Mosley the longest.
    Both owned by Rothermere at the time though:

    https://www.theguardian.com/media/greenslade/2011/dec/06/dailymail-oswald-mosley
  • ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    That's what an FSB operative would want you to think, isn't it?

    Tradecraft, George. Tradecraft.
  • kjhkjh Posts: 11,767

    kjh said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The SDP faction got the upper hand.

    Explains why they are as they are.
    As an Orange Book liberal that is NOT something I recognise whatsoever. On the contrary I would say the reverse and it is evidently true that the coalition was definitely an Orange Book coalition and not a Social Democrat coalition. The liberal party has always been a coalition of Social Democrats and Liberals even well before the SDP. After the merger the balance didn't seem to change one iota. Certainly the constituency I was chair of never changed one iota. The SDP members that joined us (and there were quite a few including councillors) simply merged in seamlessly as if the party had not undergone any change.

    So from my perspective the Liberals got the upper hand, presumably because most liberals joined up, but a sizeable group of SDP didn't.
    Much depended, IIRC, on whether the constituency was one which was allocated to the SDP or to the Liberals. In mine the SDP were grateful for Liberal help, but it was made clear to us (Liberal officers) that the SDP were in charge.
    That is really interesting. Thanks @OldKingCole.

    How did the organisation compare? Did the SDP have a local organisation as good as the Liberals, particularly in the area of campaigning? I forget that I did come across local liberal parties that were weak and didn't take on the accepted campaigning techniques. You even occasionally came across it in well organised constituencies.

    Do you agree that the coalition was dominated by the Orange Book wing of the LDs.
  • ydoethurydoethur Posts: 71,252

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    That's what an FSB operative would want you to think, isn't it?

    Tradecraft, George. Tradecraft.
    As a good Socialist, I'm going where the money is, as a good capitalist I'm sticking with the revolution as if you can't beat it, spy on it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    edited November 2023
    HYUFD said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    It seems like the Mail has abandoned its Tory Cheerleader role for the coming election. When even the DM has given up the Tories are in very deep do-do.
    The Mail wants to see the Tories move right in opposition
    So do I: right off the end of the electability spectrum.

    To be fair, they are already off the end of that spectrum, as the polls indicate, but I am quite happy to see them drift further off into the wilderness. Hopefully never to return.
  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,363

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    Beetroot is bad, pickled beetroot is inedible imo.
    Beetroot, smoked salmon and horseradish cream on toasted sourdough. Start there and you will shift your opinion.
    Tbf I exaggerated for (not very) comic effect. I don't mind a bit of beetroot julienned (ooh) in a salad. I'd probably stick to real cream cheese (not Philly) with smoked salmon though as I think horseradish can overpower it.
    try a horseradish cream its gentler than full on horseradish.
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Surely the "revived corpse" is so ludicrous that it must have been stuck in there just to see if anyone could be so gullible as to repost this drivel.
  • Nigelb said:

    ydoethur said:

    Carnyx said:

    Andy_JS said:

    "The Conservatives have been controlled for 20 years by a cabal known as the “movement”, which brought down Boris Johnson as prime minister, Nadine Dorries has claimed in the latest extract from her new book."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/nadine-dorries-cabal-movement-boris-b2441545.html

    Sounds like Mad Nad's book is going to be very illuminati

    I'll stop there.

    When the Mail's first extract is headlined

    Shadowy Tory No10 fixer who had pet rabbit butchered in mafia style warning to his ex girlfriend

    one has to wonder.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/nov/03/nadine-dorries-claims-tory-cabal-called-the-movement-brought-down-boris-johnson

    Unkind:

    'Cummings responded to the allegations by sarcastically telling the Daily Mail: “She’s right, there was a giant conspiracy including MI6, the CIA and, most crucially, the KGB special operations department. It’s a tribute to Nadine she has figured this out. The movement wishes her well.”

    A source close to Gove told the newspaper: “Nadine is a very talented bestselling fiction author.”'
    Cummings is such an idiot, he doesn't even know the KGB is called the FSB these days.
    Or perhaps he doesn't think either Nadine or DM readers do ?
    Difficult to tell.
    It is normal to refer to the KGB and all its predecessor and successor organisations as the KGB.
    And the Russian armed forces as the Red Army. Difficult to let go of a good cliché.
  • eekeek Posts: 28,250
    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714
  • ChrisChris Posts: 11,740
    Chris said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Surely the "revived corpse" is so ludicrous that it must have been stuck in there just to see if anyone could be so gullible as to repost this drivel.
    I suspect there's a message for anyone with half a brain in the logo on the "War Correspondent's" helmet. A hint about what was being taken.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,537
    Chris said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Surely the "revived corpse" is so ludicrous that it must have been stuck in there just to see if anyone could be so gullible as to repost this drivel.
    This is the "revived corpse" image from Facebook in Sept 2022 posted by a Thai.

    https://twitter.com/Shayan86/status/1717971966865317995?t=CLxteiRjz-5JO33eoGtYGQ&s=19

    So which of the other images are to be believed. It is indeed a hall of mirrors.
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    Maybe you'll have Leon canvassing beside you!
    Or maybe not.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,903

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    What about when she’s party leader after the next election and we’re all harking back with fondness to the kinder gentler Sunak Tory party?
  • RazedabodeRazedabode Posts: 3,027

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    Maybe you'll have Leon canvassing beside you!
    Or maybe not.
    Me and Loen knocking up the voters.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 70,853
    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487
    Ooh, wickets (plural!) in Ahmedabad, 20 mins ago it looked like 300 was on the cards, now it looks like we might even see the convicts bowled out.
  • TheScreamingEaglesTheScreamingEagles Posts: 119,471
    edited November 2023

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
  • Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
  • TimSTimS Posts: 12,903
    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,697
    edited November 2023

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    No obvious charity? Remember the RNLI arguments. Pissing off the RNLI by making them throw the asylum seekers back in or risk prosecution pisses off their supporters. Attacking tent people, not so much.

    Also - tent people tend not to be 60+ yo houseowners worried about inheritance tax. Nor do they tend to have/use their vote, let alone a postal one.

    Edit: Eabhal's point noted re services veterans. Good point.
  • Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Given Sunak and Hunt's ongoing threshold freeze, all sorts of riffraff will be paying the higher rate soon.

    It'll be as bad as Coutts, and we all know how that ended.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 54,933
    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6
  • EabhalEabhal Posts: 8,559
    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    I'm not sure going after rough sleepers, some of whom are veterans with serious mental help problems, is particularly smart. Remembrance Sunday next weekend, opportunity for Labour?

    Also, to be blunt, this is primarily an inner-city problem (distinct from homelessness in general), disproportionately affecting London. Westminster bubble?

  • AlanbrookeAlanbrooke Posts: 25,363
    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    good article, some similarities to here.
  • Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Given Sunak and Hunt's ongoing threshold freeze, all sorts of riffraff will be paying the higher rate soon.

    It'll be as bad as Coutts, and we all know how that ended.
    My policy has been no representation without taxation.
  • OldKingColeOldKingCole Posts: 33,388
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The SDP faction got the upper hand.

    Explains why they are as they are.
    As an Orange Book liberal that is NOT something I recognise whatsoever. On the contrary I would say the reverse and it is evidently true that the coalition was definitely an Orange Book coalition and not a Social Democrat coalition. The liberal party has always been a coalition of Social Democrats and Liberals even well before the SDP. After the merger the balance didn't seem to change one iota. Certainly the constituency I was chair of never changed one iota. The SDP members that joined us (and there were quite a few including councillors) simply merged in seamlessly as if the party had not undergone any change.

    So from my perspective the Liberals got the upper hand, presumably because most liberals joined up, but a sizeable group of SDP didn't.
    Much depended, IIRC, on whether the constituency was one which was allocated to the SDP or to the Liberals. In mine the SDP were grateful for Liberal help, but it was made clear to us (Liberal officers) that the SDP were in charge.
    That is really interesting. Thanks @OldKingCole.

    How did the organisation compare? Did the SDP have a local organisation as good as the Liberals, particularly in the area of campaigning? I forget that I did come across local liberal parties that were weak and didn't take on the accepted campaigning techniques. You even occasionally came across it in well organised constituencies.

    Do you agree that the coalition was dominated by the Orange Book wing of the LDs.
    kjh said:

    kjh said:

    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The SDP faction got the upper hand.

    Explains why they are as they are.
    As an Orange Book liberal that is NOT something I recognise whatsoever. On the contrary I would say the reverse and it is evidently true that the coalition was definitely an Orange Book coalition and not a Social Democrat coalition. The liberal party has always been a coalition of Social Democrats and Liberals even well before the SDP. After the merger the balance didn't seem to change one iota. Certainly the constituency I was chair of never changed one iota. The SDP members that joined us (and there were quite a few including councillors) simply merged in seamlessly as if the party had not undergone any change.

    So from my perspective the Liberals got the upper hand, presumably because most liberals joined up, but a sizeable group of SDP didn't.
    Much depended, IIRC, on whether the constituency was one which was allocated to the SDP or to the Liberals. In mine the SDP were grateful for Liberal help, but it was made clear to us (Liberal officers) that the SDP were in charge.
    That is really interesting. Thanks @OldKingCole.

    How did the organisation compare? Did the SDP have a local organisation as good as the Liberals, particularly in the area of campaigning? I forget that I did come across local liberal parties that were weak and didn't take on the accepted campaigning techniques. You even occasionally came across it in well organised constituencies.

    Do you agree that the coalition was dominated by the Orange Book wing of the LDs.
    The local Liberal organisation wasn’t good, but it had experience. The SDP newcomers were rather like the Liberal newcomers in Feb 74; enthusiastic but naive.
    It’s never been a very ‘Liberal’ constituency.

    As someone who had been a LibLabber I very soon fell out of love with the Coalition. I’d stopped being an activist and certainly didn’t feel inclined to reactivate myself.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
    Great minds think alike.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612
    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, wickets (plural!) in Ahmedabad, 20 mins ago it looked like 300 was on the cards, now it looks like we might even see the convicts bowled out.

    Both still possible.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,253
    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Only if you're willing to explain to Mrs P. why I get a vote and she doesn't.
  • Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Only if you're willing to explain to Mrs P. why I get a vote and she doesn't.
    I am a great persuader.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
    Great minds think alike.
    Mmmm, since you put a like on my post... Oh, wtf, who cares.

    Does this mean I have become an Influencer?
  • TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Only if you're willing to explain to Mrs P. why I get a vote and she doesn't.
    I am a great persuader.
    Yeah I can see the way that's going: "Don't worry Mrs P, just tell Ben how he should vote on your behalf."
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,958
    Eabhal said:

    Good morning. Thinking about purchasing a tent today - can anyone suggest some good locations (perhaps under a bridge or bypass) that would be suitable. Want a mixture of leafy London suburb, but close to key coffee shops for my morning chai latte.

    Parliament Square?
    St Paul's Churchyard, then you don't have to sleep in it.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    I thought you were a scientist Sunil?
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
    Great minds think alike.
    Mmmm, since you put a like on my post... Oh, wtf, who cares.

    Does this mean I have become an Influencer?
    I was knackered last night, apologies for stealing your gag.
  • Eabhal said:

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    I'm not sure going after rough sleepers, some of whom are veterans with serious mental help problems, is particularly smart. Remembrance Sunday next weekend, opportunity for Labour?

    Also, to be blunt, this is primarily an inner-city problem (distinct from homelessness in general), disproportionately affecting London. Westminster bubble?

    Also, it's November. It's just turned cold and dark. And, as Crazy Headteacher Lady (doesn't she have a school to run, rather than dashing off open letters to shops?) pointed out, the season of goodwill to all is just around the corner.

    By all means, get the people in the tents out of the tents. But not like this.
  • NickPalmerNickPalmer Posts: 21,518
    Fishing said:



    But even before the (2029?) election, he will have to worry if his coalition is falling apart. Even a PM with a large majority has limited authority over his Parliamentary Party if electoral annihilation beckons, as the current government is finding out, and as Brown discovered in 2008-9. I was a minor cog in that latter government, and well remember the sense of decay which infected just about every part of it.

    Interesting - a minor elected cog? I was in Parliament at the time, of course - I didn't feel a sense of decay - exhaustion might be a fairer description? Obviously the global economic crisis was an issue, and I was quite pleased with Brown's leadership at the time, which other countries' leaders later acknowledged as important. That said, I did feel we'd run out of ideas - the 2010 election was all about "stop the Tories", and I felt at the time that a purely negative message wasn't going to be enough for a sitting government.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487
    edited November 2023
    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Interesting read, noting as many of us have that education level and social values are replacing economic values, as key determinants of voting intention.

    Also another piece on the same site, noting that an anti-Trump PAC made and then shelved four ads critising his legal troubles, as they totally backfired with test audiences.
    https://www.politico.com/news/2023/11/03/anti-trump-group-ads-backfired-00125087
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,537
    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,253
    NB. The body bag image comes from Thailand in 2022 apparently: https://twitter.com/MattBinder/status/1717896332612948021
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
    Great minds think alike.
    Mmmm, since you put a like on my post... Oh, wtf, who cares.

    Does this mean I have become an Influencer?
    I was knackered last night, apologies for stealing your gag.
    I feel bad now. Bad and honoured!
  • eek said:

    From Twitter

    TSE
    @TSEofPB
    Well that's that then.

    I am voting Labour at the next general election. https://twitter.com/SuellaBraverman/status/1720730450556006714

    The more she pisses me off it increases the chances of me canvassing for Labour.

    This vote is limited to the present circumstances only.
    The tent thing was probably the final straw I think. I’ve no idea why she thinks it would be a “popular” policy
    Same.

    In central Manchester there's a few tents and they are no bother.

    Her next policy will be to criminalise donations to food banks.
    Hey!

    https://vf.politicalbetting.com/discussion/comment/4593012#Comment_4593012
    Great minds think alike.
    Mmmm, since you put a like on my post... Oh, wtf, who cares.

    Does this mean I have become an Influencer?
    I was knackered last night, apologies for stealing your gag.
    I feel bad now. Bad and honoured!
    Don't feel bad.

    It's been an interesting few weeks, professionally, personally, and PB related for me.
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    Nigelb said:

    This trend has been remarked on before, but the author of this article has written the book on it.

    The Emerging Working-Class Republican Majority
    https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/11/04/new-republican-party-working-class-coalition-00122822

    Proof, it proof were needed, that voting should be limited to higher rate tax payers.
    Given Sunak and Hunt's ongoing threshold freeze, all sorts of riffraff will be paying the higher rate soon.

    It'll be as bad as Coutts, and we all know how that ended.
    My policy has been no representation without taxation.
    VAT screws that one up. Everyone forgets that even the very poorest pay tax.
  • SandpitSandpit Posts: 54,487

    Sandpit said:

    Ooh, wickets (plural!) in Ahmedabad, 20 mins ago it looked like 300 was on the cards, now it looks like we might even see the convicts bowled out.

    Both still possible.
    Well we got them all out, but still have 287 to chase! Can’t see us getting that many.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,958

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Are you the ghost of George Bush, having moved on from broccoli !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzyIbmyM78
  • MattW said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Are you the ghost of George Bush, having moved on from broccoli !
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzyIbmyM78
    Broccoli is OK :)
  • TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    I thought you were a scientist Sunil?
    I am a PB Influencer :sunglasses:
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,958
    ..er .. bincinerator
    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
  • PhilPhil Posts: 2,253
    edited November 2023
    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
  • VAR is awesome.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,631
    edited November 2023

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    This looks fairy bad (note, one or two houses have already been repaired):
  • BenpointerBenpointer Posts: 34,612

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    This looks fairy bad (note, one or two houses have already been repaired):
    An impish post
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,537
    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    Phil said:

    Foxy said:

    carnforth said:

    Unbelievable BBC ran footage from Hamas crisis actor last night...this particular guy is so famous for this he is literally a meme now across social media for how shit he is at it i.e. going from patient to doctor in the same day. Obviously BBC verify had gone home early....

    Do you have a source with evidence for this? There have been a lot of claims of “crisis actors”, but news agencies have dismissed them as false. See:

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/

    https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-israel-hamas-gaza-false-crisis-actors-068772255064

    https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/injured-teenager-who-lost-his-leg-misidentified-social-media-2023-10-27/

    I'm sure false accusations exist, but in this case it's fairly clear cut:



    This is the chap BBC showed in their opening news montage yesterday.
    The "revived corpse" is from a Halloween costume in Thailand some years ago.

    We are in a hall of mirrors. Both "fake news" and fake accusations of "fake news" are all around us. People using these images can be either.

    There are enough pieces of correct footage of dead and injured civilians on both sides to only use the real thing. The truth is so horrible as to not need elaboration.

    TwitterX is so full of fake stuff as to have lost nearly all utility now.
    Why does the war correspondent one have a helmet that says PISS?

    I quick search on Twitter will turn up another version of this image without the body bag & with a helmet that says PRESS.

    It’s very odd. Maybe this version contains obviously wrong elements in order to cast doubt on the “genuine” versions? Maybe the genuine versions are also false (look hard enough & you’ll find people that look fairly similar anywhere you go).

    The onslaught of fake footage during this conflict makes it ever more difficult to tell what’s actually going on. Internet OSInt takes time & the old saying about lies & boots sadly applies :(
    Several other images in the montage are either other people, or taken at times before the current troubles. See the twitter thread here:

    https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1720593087871783193?t=HaQdaHrhS2vqDAYCoPICFQ&s=19

    I am surprised that Visegrad hasn't deleted the tweet. It discredits them as a reliable source.
    It turns out that, apart from the two which have been identified as other people, these are of the same guy, who seems to be running the whole thing as some kind of Instagram Influencer shtick? Maybe?

    That would explain the two press helmets, PISS & PRESS: both are done for the Instagram likes in different short videos.

    There are plenty of horrible images out there. By sharing a set of deliberate fakes from an Instagram Influencer, mixed in with some other images which have nothing to do with Gaza at all but look plausible, the pro-Israel side is implying that all of these other images are also fake.

    It’s just another psy-op in other words.

    Some links here: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/what-is-pallywood-palestinians-falsely-accused-faking-devastation-1234869765/
    Yes, that is a good article:

    "accusations of “Pallywood” serve a uniquely insidious purpose. “It allows people the mental space to disregard real evidence of civilian harm,”"

    One thing about Musk and Meta spreading so much lies on Social Media may well be people not willing to trust sources other than proper certified journalism.

    The seppukko of TwitterX may well be to the benefit of real journalism, though real journalists will need to do careful fact checking to retain credibility themselves.
  • TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    This looks fairy bad (note, one or two houses have already been repaired):
    I said in the London area!
  • MattW said:

    ..er .. bincinerator

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
    Is venison vegetarian? :lol:
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,697
    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

    'Writing on X, formerly Twitter, Braverman defended her proposals, saying: “The British people are compassionate. We will always support those who are genuinely homeless. But we cannot allow our streets to be taken over by rows of tents occupied by people, many of them from abroad, living on the streets as a lifestyle choice."'
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,697

    MattW said:

    ..er .. bincinerator

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
    Is venison vegetarian? :lol:
    Pickled beetroot would go well with cold onion bhaji or similar, plus some raita and other salad.
  • CarnyxCarnyx Posts: 42,697

    TimS said:

    Another weather first yesterday: 35C in Europe in November.

    https://x.com/extremetemps/status/1720773859853390268?s=46

    The strong jet stream that dragged up storm Ciaron to our shores also pumped unusually hot air across the central and Eastern Mediterranean.

    What happened to your "Stink bomb", or whatever it's called? Ciaran was a bit of a damp squib here in the London area!
    This looks fairy bad (note, one or two houses have already been repaired):
    An impish post
    Trolling somewhat?
  • El_CapitanoEl_Capitano Posts: 4,238
    Eabhal said:

    Carnyx said:

    Eabhal said:

    Vaguely on topic: the new "live" bus trackers at each stop in Edinburgh now only reflect the timetable, rather than how the wait will actually be.

    This means that the trackers no longer match Lothian Buses' own app or Google maps, leading to mass confusion and incredulity at the collosal waste of money.

    Who will do the best job of kicking up a fuss and fixing it? The Green councillors. Will the Greens win any seats in Edinburgh at the GE? No. Politics is cruel.

    PS May be useful for the Greens at Holyrood though, with Mr Cole-Hamilton so against LTNs.
    Liberal Democrats continue to baffle me in general. Absolutely no idea what they stand for other than being marginally more pro-Europe than the others.

    ACH started campaigning against air pollution and then pivoted towards the Piers Corbyn conspiracy theorists.
    The Scottish LibDems are a bizarre opportunistic party without any obvious identity other than "we're not them, or them, or them". The party in England & Wales has some discernible identity but Scotland is weird. I never understood why they didn't decide to become "the party of devo-max" which would suit the wider LibDem philosophy perfectly.
  • Carnyx said:

    https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/nov/04/suella-braverman-says-rough-sleeping-is-lifestyle-choice

    'Writing on X, formerly Twitter, Braverman defended her proposals, saying: “The British people are compassionate. We will always support those who are genuinely homeless. But we cannot allow our streets to be taken over by rows of tents occupied by people, many of them from abroad, living on the streets as a lifestyle choice."'

    Isn't being a Tory a lifestyle choice?
  • isamisam Posts: 41,118
    edited November 2023
    viewcode said:

    Occasionally. I do try to read them (@Alanbrooke's are jolly although I usually disagree with him) but mostly I speed-run thru them depending on content and author. But some of the ones are betting-critical, with @OnlyLivingBoy 's piece[1] of a few months ago being very relevant IMHO

    I frequently criticise PB's evolution from a political betting site concerned with odds to a partisan site advocating policy, and as OGH ages out this will continue to be a problem. But there are diamonds in the rough and it's worth looking out for them. @Quincel produces nothing but diamonds so it's worth pointing it out.

    [1] https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/17/why-labours-chances-of-winning-a-majority-are-more-than-50/
    Since the 2015 GE, where the betting seemed to be a big topic, it seems the markets are less interesting in terms of volatilty, and less imaginative in terms of what’s on offer

    That said, we have seen a massive swing from Con fav to Lab fav… I know to my cost

    Greens vs Reform vote share is a bet I’m interested to see the odds for
  • FrankBoothFrankBooth Posts: 9,800
    Leon said:

    This is the best newspaper column I have read in a long long time. Brilliantly witty. Tragically, it is Giles Coren discussing the unfunniest of subjects: Jews now wanting to leave Britain, because they’re genuinely scared. Shameful


    “We talk about getting out — just not there”

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/05213b76-7a59-11ee-b861-bff63f5f7486?shareToken=d0d29fb4657a69f2b45ce1d88af372f6

    It saddens me in and of itself but there is also the patriotic angle. It ought to shame us, to goad us into thinking we're better than this. And yet the reaction of so many is rank indifference.
  • FlatlanderFlatlander Posts: 4,631


    I said in the London area!

    No forecast had damaging winds in London.
  • FoxyFoxy Posts: 48,537
    viewcode said:

    Occasionally. I do try to read them (@Alanbrooke's are jolly although I usually disagree with him) but mostly I speed-run thru them depending on content and author. But some of the ones are betting-critical, with @OnlyLivingBoy 's piece[1] of a few months ago being very relevant IMHO

    I frequently criticise PB's evolution from a political betting site concerned with odds to a partisan site advocating policy, and as OGH ages out this will continue to be a problem. But there are diamonds in the rough and it's worth looking out for them. @Quincel produces nothing but diamonds so it's worth pointing it out.

    [1] https://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2023/09/17/why-labours-chances-of-winning-a-majority-are-more-than-50/
    One of the practical issues writing PB headers is the paucity of betting events. With the byelections out of the way there simply aren't many current active markets.

    2024 will be very different as election fever builds here, and the US starts its Primaries.
  • MattWMattW Posts: 22,958
    edited November 2023

    MattW said:

    ..er .. bincinerator

    Carnyx said:

    MattW said:

    Off-topic for a minute. Cooking.

    Air Fried Bacon Turnovers for the freezer. Yes, they do thaw well.


    TBF, for this quantity it is probably worth doing 20-25 in the big oven.

    Does anyone have suggestions for a veggie alternative? I'm wondering about beetroot + mature cheddar.

    I HATE Beetroot! :grimace:
    Ever had it pickled? ([edit] Not with a sweet vinegar - it doesn't need any sweetening, just plain vinegar.) That kills the sweetness and works very well with potato and onion stovies and cold meat. Or pickled herring and plain boiled potatoes.
    I find it goes very well with venison, or to make gravy or sauce a little more substantial.
    Is venison vegetarian? :lol:
    I enjoy vegetarian food, especially to accompany meat.

    BTW "bincinerator" was an unrealised quip about the Upcycled Oil Barrel I had delivered by Amazon Prime this week :smile: .
This discussion has been closed.