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Just look at that Tory voters score – politicalbetting.com

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  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cosplaying President is likely as close as he’ll ever get to the WH.

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1718027396199129276
    Israel’s Consul General says Ron Desantis is lying when he claimed that he sent weapons and equipment to Israel, saying it is “bizarre to think that someone is procuring weapons and sending them to Israel. This is not how we work.”

    I can't believe it's allowed for a *State* Governor to get involved in sending weapons to a foreign government?
    Neither can the foreign government.

    Also sub optimal for him.
    Florida Republican Assembly Issues Declaration Urges DeSantis to End Presidential Campaign and Return to Florida to Govern the State Again
    https://twitter.com/gatewaypundit/status/1718363548412416146
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Stewart also ruins his point with his adolescent hyperbole

    He could have called Boris a “dangerous liar” or “an amoral charlatan”, or any number of more acute things, which would have stuck in the mind. Calling another politician a “terrible human being” sounds like desperate envious overwrought wank and so the reader tunes out the rest of the message. Tsk
  • Pulpstar said:

    England would have won with Barnes. Not because he's English but he doesn't blow quickly for scrum pens

    Barnes was one of the all time great players, one of my favourites when I was a kid, but isn't he 59 now and long retired from football?
    "You've got to hold and give but do it at the right time"
  • Pulpstar said:

    England would have won with Barnes. Not because he's English but he doesn't blow quickly for scrum pens

    Barnes was one of the all time great players, one of my favourites when I was a kid, but isn't he 59 now and long retired from football?
    "You've got to hold and give but do it at the right time"
    They'll always hit you and hurt you, defend and attack. There's only one way to beat them, get round the back.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Ruthlessness you need but not nastiness.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Cyclefree said:
    Laudable.
    And replying to keep this on the next page.
  • FishingFishing Posts: 5,041
    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine, US cooperate to retrofit Soviet-era air defenses with Western missiles

    FrankenSAM program combines Buk launchers with US Sea Sparrow missiles in one version, and Soviet-era radars with AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles in another, NYT reported.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1718356953397678156

    Good that Israel/Palestine hasn't stopped the Americans and ourselves helping Ukraine, despite what Putin is no doubt hoping. Both conflicts are horrifying from a humanitarian point of view, but Russia poses a threat to western civilisation in a way that Hamas doesn't, though no doubt it would like to.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724

    Raj Thamotheram
    @RajThamotheram
    ·
    2h
    If you care about what's happening in Palestine & Israel, and live in the UK, then your focus should be on pushing Keir Starmer to think again.

    It can be done.

    It must be done.

    @OwenJones84
    makes a powerful & persuasive case. Take the time to listen please.

    ====

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Yes

    “Terrible human being” is what you say about people beyond moral redemption, guilty of the most atrocious sins. Actual genocidal dictators, actual mass murderers

    What would this anorexic Etonian gargoyle say if he met an actual “terrible human being”? Oh he was “not a nice chap”?

    Posho Fuckwit
    Yes, so why he couldn't relate to Boris Johnson is a bit of a mystery.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829
    Some interesting chatter tonight from someone who might know that Saudi Arabia are looking to restart the diplomatic normalisation process with Israel and burn their ties with Hamas. I wonder whether the refusal by Hamas to release the hostages was the final straw for the Saudis. If it's true I also wonder what the US (and UK) has handed to the Saudis to make it happen.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Ruthlessness you need but not nastiness.
    That's an irregular verb again.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Bill Kristol
    @BillKristol
    ·
    2h
    Sad and telling that Pence had an even more hopeless path in the Republican nomination fight precisely because he did the right thing on January 6th.
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829


    Raj Thamotheram
    @RajThamotheram
    ·
    2h
    If you care about what's happening in Palestine & Israel, and live in the UK, then your focus should be on pushing Keir Starmer to think again.

    It can be done.

    It must be done.

    @OwenJones84
    makes a powerful & persuasive case. Take the time to listen please.

    ====

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.

    Or you know, Hamas. Pressuring Hamas to release the hostages is the first step to a ceasefire. Hamas seems to be getting a completely free pass on the hostages while these useful idiots march against Israel defending itself and its citizens from these brutal terrorists.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    MaxPB said:

    Some interesting chatter tonight from someone who might know that Saudi Arabia are looking to restart the diplomatic normalisation process with Israel and burn their ties with Hamas. I wonder whether the refusal by Hamas to release the hostages was the final straw for the Saudis. If it's true I also wonder what the US (and UK) has handed to the Saudis to make it happen.

    Most interesting.

    Has the kaleidoscope been shaken?

  • Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine, US cooperate to retrofit Soviet-era air defenses with Western missiles

    FrankenSAM program combines Buk launchers with US Sea Sparrow missiles in one version, and Soviet-era radars with AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles in another, NYT reported.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1718356953397678156

    Good that Israel/Palestine hasn't stopped the Americans and ourselves helping Ukraine, despite what Putin is no doubt hoping. Both conflicts are horrifying from a humanitarian point of view, but Russia poses a threat to western civilisation in a way that Hamas doesn't, though no doubt it would like to.
    Russia seem to have spent the last few years making the worst possible decision all the time. The last few weeks being no exception.

    Putin had a cool relationship with Netanyahu, they clearly disliked each other but were not treating each other as enemies. Despite America historically being Israel's ally, and the USSR historically being the Palestinians, until the end of the Cold War, Putin who has wanted to revive the Cold War was not openly on the side of Hamas despite them both having Iran as a common denominator. As a result Israel wasn't sharing its weapons with Ukraine out of fear that any they sent that got intercepted could end up with Iran.

    Now in the last few weeks Putin has come out clearly and unambiguously on the side of Hamas. He's made a clear enemy out of Israel. I'm sure that won't come to bite him in the ass at all, not one bit, no sir.
  • SandyRentoolSandyRentool Posts: 22,015
    dixiedean said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Merely stop worshipping the posh.
    I prefer Scary.
  • kinabalukinabalu Posts: 42,159

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Ruthlessness you need but not nastiness.
    That's an irregular verb again.
    Not in my hands it isn't. You know me. Careful. Precise. Almost fussy sometimes.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    CatMan said:

    Nigelb said:

    Cosplaying President is likely as close as he’ll ever get to the WH.

    https://twitter.com/RonFilipkowski/status/1718027396199129276
    Israel’s Consul General says Ron Desantis is lying when he claimed that he sent weapons and equipment to Israel, saying it is “bizarre to think that someone is procuring weapons and sending them to Israel. This is not how we work.”

    I can't believe it's allowed for a *State* Governor to get involved in sending weapons to a foreign government?
    Logan Act?
  • MaxPBMaxPB Posts: 38,829

    MaxPB said:

    Some interesting chatter tonight from someone who might know that Saudi Arabia are looking to restart the diplomatic normalisation process with Israel and burn their ties with Hamas. I wonder whether the refusal by Hamas to release the hostages was the final straw for the Saudis. If it's true I also wonder what the US (and UK) has handed to the Saudis to make it happen.

    Most interesting.

    Has the kaleidoscope been shaken?

    Well let's see what plays out of the next few weeks. Supposedly there's a lot of worry that siding with Hamas will make it difficult for PIF to continue it's investment spree in the US and across Europe and if they get caught up in it properly they may end up with PIF being sanctioned which will result in assets being frozen etc... The way the UK government and US government targeted Russian oligarch assets after Ukraine has them very worried.
  • Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Yes

    “Terrible human being” is what you say about people beyond moral redemption, guilty of the most atrocious sins. Actual genocidal dictators, actual mass murderers

    What would this anorexic Etonian gargoyle say if he met an actual “terrible human being”? Oh he was “not a nice chap”?

    Posho Fuckwit
    Far be it from me to defend Rory Stewart, who I've always found rather annoying, but I think "terrible human being" is the right kind of language to use about Johnson. That's because I don't see it as an especially damning phrase. It's one I'd employ to describe people who are basic shits, like Johnson, not dictators or mass murderers. Calling Hitler a "terrible human being" would sound trivialising, to me. I suppose phrases mean different things to different people, though.
    One other thing - given the fact they went to the same secondary school and have worked together maybe Stewart knows Johnson better than any of us do - and if he says he is a terrible human being maybe he knows what he's talking about?
    Yeah, the world is fiull of terrible human beings who aren't Hitler or even Boris Johnson. Some of them may even post on PB.
  • CyclefreeCyclefree Posts: 25,310
    Nigelb said:

    Cyclefree said:
    Laudable.
    And replying to keep this on the next page.
    Thank you.
  • kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Ruthlessness you need but not nastiness.
    That's an irregular verb again.
    Not in my hands it isn't. You know me. Careful. Precise. Almost fussy sometimes.
    Yes, carefully, precisely and fussily framing everything to suit your own agenda. You're a master manipulator at irregular verbs. You're so practiced at doing it, its comes effortlessly to you and I'm not sure if you even realise you're doing it.
  • MaxPB said:

    MaxPB said:

    Some interesting chatter tonight from someone who might know that Saudi Arabia are looking to restart the diplomatic normalisation process with Israel and burn their ties with Hamas. I wonder whether the refusal by Hamas to release the hostages was the final straw for the Saudis. If it's true I also wonder what the US (and UK) has handed to the Saudis to make it happen.

    Most interesting.

    Has the kaleidoscope been shaken?

    Well let's see what plays out of the next few weeks. Supposedly there's a lot of worry that siding with Hamas will make it difficult for PIF to continue it's investment spree in the US and across Europe and if they get caught up in it properly they may end up with PIF being sanctioned which will result in assets being frozen etc... The way the UK government and US government targeted Russian oligarch assets after Ukraine has them very worried.
    Oh poor @Gallowgate if Newcastle get sanctioned.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339
    edited October 2023

    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Yes

    “Terrible human being” is what you say about people beyond moral redemption, guilty of the most atrocious sins. Actual genocidal dictators, actual mass murderers

    What would this anorexic Etonian gargoyle say if he met an actual “terrible human being”? Oh he was “not a nice chap”?

    Posho Fuckwit
    Far be it from me to defend Rory Stewart, who I've always found rather annoying, but I think "terrible human being" is the right kind of language to use about Johnson. That's because I don't see it as an especially damning phrase. It's one I'd employ to describe people who are basic shits, like Johnson, not dictators or mass murderers. Calling Hitler a "terrible human being" would sound trivialising, to me. I suppose phrases mean different things to different people, though.
    One other thing - given the fact they went to the same secondary school and have worked together maybe Stewart knows Johnson better than any of us do - and if he says he is a terrible human being maybe he knows what he's talking about?
    Well then just say “he is a shit”

    The whole thrust of that interview is Stewart saying British politics has become tawdry and cartoonish and juvenile and hyperbolic, and then he says, in the next breath, that Boris Johnson is a “terrible human being”. It is absurd, and revealing. Stewart is a pious, effete, self-regarding wanker - and I choose those words carefully
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    With a bit more introspection, that could be an interesting reflection on the psychology of his own Boris Derangement Syndrome, but he doesn't seem able to snap out of it.

    It's more comforting for him to tell himself that he fought the good fight.
  • LeonLeon Posts: 55,339

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    With a bit more introspection, that could be an interesting reflection on the psychology of his own Boris Derangement Syndrome, but he doesn't seem able to snap out of it.

    It's more comforting for him to tell himself that he fought the good fight.
    Yes. And note that he claims his fight with the Satanic Boris Johnson was “existential”

    Jesus Wept. Get over yourself, Rory
  • ohnotnowohnotnow Posts: 3,792
    MaxPB said:


    Raj Thamotheram
    @RajThamotheram
    ·
    2h
    If you care about what's happening in Palestine & Israel, and live in the UK, then your focus should be on pushing Keir Starmer to think again.

    It can be done.

    It must be done.

    @OwenJones84
    makes a powerful & persuasive case. Take the time to listen please.

    ====

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.

    Or you know, Hamas. Pressuring Hamas to release the hostages is the first step to a ceasefire. Hamas seems to be getting a completely free pass on the hostages while these useful idiots march against Israel defending itself and its citizens from these brutal terrorists.
    But... Hamas are the angels. Sent to Earth to warn us of the evils of democracy, individuality and progress.

    And community. That's also bad.

    And many other things. I have a slide-deck.
  • bigglesbiggles Posts: 6,055
    edited October 2023
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Stewart also ruins his point with his adolescent hyperbole

    He could have called Boris a “dangerous liar” or “an amoral charlatan”, or any number of more acute things, which would have stuck in the mind. Calling another politician a “terrible human being” sounds like desperate envious overwrought wank and so the reader tunes out the rest of the message. Tsk
    Yes. You see a lot of it on this site of course. It’s people who wish we could go back to the 90s when there was a soft consensus. They can’t cope with the idea what someone might win votes offering something they dislike. So to achieve that, they must be evil and they must have”lied” to the public.

    Not how democracy should work.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    edited October 2023
    More on this.

    https://news.sky.com/story/leicestershire-police-officer-suffers-serious-bite-injuries-after-attack-by-dog-believed-to-be-xl-bully-12994790

    "Leicestershire Police officer suffers 'serious bite injuries' after attack by dog believed to be XL bully
    Two Leicestershire Police officers were injured on a call to a house in Ibstock where they were looking for a wanted man."
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2023
    CatMan said:

    https://x.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1718331668535095495?s=20

    "BREAKING; Mike Pence drops out of presidential race at RJC summit this afternoon."

    I still think he had a chance in Iowa. May be a tactical decision to go above the fray so he is the compromise establishment candidate if Trump is jailed and there is a deadlocked convention with no candidate having a majority of delegates
  • williamglennwilliamglenn Posts: 51,648
    MaxPB said:

    Some interesting chatter tonight from someone who might know that Saudi Arabia are looking to restart the diplomatic normalisation process with Israel and burn their ties with Hamas. I wonder whether the refusal by Hamas to release the hostages was the final straw for the Saudis. If it's true I also wonder what the US (and UK) has handed to the Saudis to make it happen.

    https://www.axios.com/2023/10/28/saudi-mbs-kbs-biden-hamas-israel-gaza-war

    Saudi Defense Minister Khalid bin Salman (KBS) is expected to visit Washington on Monday for talks with senior Biden administration officials, three sources with knowledge of the trip told Axios.
  • LostPasswordLostPassword Posts: 18,362
    edited October 2023
    ohnotnow said:

    MaxPB said:


    Raj Thamotheram
    @RajThamotheram
    ·
    2h
    If you care about what's happening in Palestine & Israel, and live in the UK, then your focus should be on pushing Keir Starmer to think again.

    It can be done.

    It must be done.

    @OwenJones84
    makes a powerful & persuasive case. Take the time to listen please.

    ====

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.

    Or you know, Hamas. Pressuring Hamas to release the hostages is the first step to a ceasefire. Hamas seems to be getting a completely free pass on the hostages while these useful idiots march against Israel defending itself and its citizens from these brutal terrorists.
    But... Hamas are the angels. Sent to Earth to warn us of the evils of democracy, individuality and progress.

    And community. That's also bad.

    And many other things. I have a slide-deck.
    On the news in Ireland this evening they had some people from today's Palestine solidarity demonstration [in Dublin] talking to camera. One of them seemed to think that Hamas didn't exist, or at least, didn't have an army, and consequently Israel were only fighting civilians.

    Quote who they thought had murdered all the Israelis three weeks ago, or who were firing rockets into Israel today, I'm not quite sure.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    edited October 2023

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.

    "Your opponents are on the seats in front of you, your enemies are sat behind you" - Diane Abbott, quoting others.
  • NigelbNigelb Posts: 71,073
    Interesting thread. Ukraine is starting to lose tanks to top attack drones.
    The.conclusions seem correct to me.

    In four months of hard fighting, the Ukrainians have lost just five Leopard 2A4s, three Leopard 2A6s and a single Challenger 2. Nine Western tanks out of 150 or so that Kyiv’s allies have delivered.
    Most were taken out by AT mines in the Mala Tokmachka area.
    Until this week ...

    https://twitter.com/GwarWorin/status/1718253748978417873
  • PulpstarPulpstar Posts: 78,191
    Ngannou has just won the third round 10-8.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    viewcode said:

    Interesting how so many on the left view Starmer as the target in all this rather than the actual you know governing party. Almost as if they have another agenda.

    "Your opponents are on the seats in front of you, your enemies are sat behind you" - Diane Abbott, quoting others.
    The import at thing is to purify The Revolution, even if that reduces The Revolution to you and me and actually, you are a heretic…..

    Once The Revolution has been completely Purified it will instantly spread to every mind on Earth. Because it will be Perfect.
  • HYUFD said:



    CatMan said:

    https://x.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1718331668535095495?s=20

    "BREAKING; Mike Pence drops out of presidential race at RJC summit this afternoon."

    I still think he had a chance in Iowa. May be a tactical decision to go above the fray so he is the compromise establishment candidate if Trump is jailed and there is a deadlocked convention with no candidate having a majority of delegates
    Or maybe you were just wrong.
  • rottenboroughrottenborough Posts: 62,724
    Farage in talks to do Celebrity jungle show says Sun on Sunday.

    This could get very interesting...
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587

    Farage in talks to do Celebrity jungle show says Sun on Sunday.

    This could get very interesting...

    Apparently Matt Hancock got £400k, so it may be just for the money.
  • carnforth said:

    Farage in talks to do Celebrity jungle show says Sun on Sunday.

    This could get very interesting...

    Apparently Matt Hancock got £400k, so it may be just for the money.
    You're right. Moscow don't pay as well as they used to, and Nigel needs a new Lexus.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    There are days I despair of the UK: the disconnect of the political classes from the working class, the conversion of the UK into a machine that consumes people to make profit for foreigners, the massive debt, the endless complaints of the chattering classes.

    But every now and then I see something that makes my heart cheer. I present to you the Fairy Bridge of Stiffkey.

    A bridge in the Norfolk Marshes was removed by the National Trust. They intend to replace it, but it is dragging on, stating that “...what makes this project complex is the multiple ownership, multiple designations, multiple permissions and the construction regulations we need to follow to ensure that we build a bridge that’s legally compliant, robust, safe and suitable for this inter-tidal coastal location...”, whilst filing papers in the "Beware of the Leopard" cabinet in the basement.

    Meanwhile a crude bridge has been constructed by unknown entities, stopping just short of the banks and thus ensuring that it falls under "Natural England" jurisdiction not the "National Trust"

    When asked the locals say that it's a mystery and the fairies must have built it. Certainly Ian Curtis (not that one!), the convener of the "Rebuild Stiffkey Marsh Bridge" campaign holds this belief, stating that after the old one was removed "...The police were informed. But, of course, the fairies were watching and they put another one up..."

    He then added "...A better one this time, which is much harder to take down..." whilst putting away his tools and cleaning the mud off his wellies, softly whistling "Killing in the Name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    edited October 2023
    "The app that promised an NHS ‘revolution’ then went down in flames

    Babylon Healthcare won NHS contracts after being championed by Matt Hancock but the company’s AI tech was oversold and it has now collapsed" (£)

    https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rise-and-fall-of-babylon-healthcare-the-doctor-in-your-pocket-3p6q6jjfx

    https://www.wired.com/story/babylon-health-warning-ai-unicorns/
  • carnforthcarnforth Posts: 4,587
    viewcode said:

    There are days I despair of the UK: the disconnect of the political classes from the working class, the conversion of the UK into a machine that consumes people to make profit for foreigners, the massive debt, the endless complaints of the chattering classes.

    But every now and then I see something that makes my heart cheer. I present to you the Fairy Bridge of Stiffkey.

    A bridge in the Norfolk Marshes was removed by the National Trust. They intend to replace it, but it is dragging on, stating that “...what makes this project complex is the multiple ownership, multiple designations, multiple permissions and the construction regulations we need to follow to ensure that we build a bridge that’s legally compliant, robust, safe and suitable for this inter-tidal coastal location...”, whilst filing papers in the "Beware of the Leopard" cabinet in the basement.

    Meanwhile a crude bridge has been constructed by unknown entities, stopping just short of the banks and thus ensuring that it falls under "Natural England" jurisdiction not the "National Trust"

    When asked the locals say that it's a mystery and the fairies must have built it. Certainly Ian Curtis (not that one!), the convener of the "Rebuild Stiffkey Marsh Bridge" campaign holds this belief, stating that after the old one was removed "...The police were informed. But, of course, the fairies were watching and they put another one up..."

    He then added "...A better one this time, which is much harder to take down..." whilst putting away his tools and cleaning the mud off his wellies, softly whistling "Killing in the Name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current fight over NT leadership, they certainly do seem to have an institutional tone deafness about them.
  • viewcodeviewcode Posts: 22,091
    Rando YouTube weather forecaster forecasting weather for Winter 2023/4 for Europe, including UK&Ire.

    No idea if she's right or not, so DYOR.

    https://youtu.be/4j3KOPHt7Cg?si=rqtzWNP-D1tuzVjK&t=320
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    "Minister pictured campaigning with suspended former Tory MP Peter Bone

    Tom Pursglove was photographed with the Wellingborough MP, who was found to have indecently exposed himself to a staff member."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/peter-bone-minister-wellingborough-commons-department-for-work-and-pensions-b2437800.html

    Apparently the campaigning took place just a few hours ago.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259
    Leon said:

    kinabalu said:

    Leon said:

    carnforth said:

    Leon said:

    I know many will agree with this, but this seems to me a disgraceful thing to say, courtesy of Rory Stewart


    Rory Stewart: ‘I fought an existential fight against Boris Johnson, who is a terrible human being’

    https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/2023/10/28/rory-stewart-i-fought-an-existential-fight-against-boris-johnson-who-is-a-terrible-human-being/

    Adolf Hitler was a “terrible human being”

    Fred West was a “terrible human being”

    Saddam Hussein was a “terrible human being”

    Jimmy Savile etc etc

    Boris Johnson? Really? Really?? OK he’s a lazy narcissist, maybe even a charlatan, maybe a mountebank, a cad, a liar, but “a terrible human being”? No. No no no. This reflects badly on Stewart, it cheapens and coarsens debate and makes Stewart look as guilty as those he accuses

    I suspect they are more similar than either would like to admit.

    Perhaps if we could stop worshipping posh boys who have read the classics, we would be better all around.
    Rory Stewart has just descended seventeen levels of estimation. I quite liked him, despite his stupid posh affectations. But this is ugly, nasty, and vile. “Terrible human being”. FFS
    Bit much maybe. 'Nasty piece of work' would have sufficed.
    Indeed, a nasty piece of work who could be quite charismatic too. A politician in other words.

    Blair was the same, and Starmer is too.

    To thrive in politics you need a mix of charisma and nastiness.
    Stewart also ruins his point with his adolescent hyperbole

    He could have called Boris a “dangerous liar” or “an amoral charlatan”, or any number of more acute things, which would have stuck in the mind. Calling another politician a “terrible human being” sounds like desperate envious overwrought wank and so the reader tunes out the rest of the message. Tsk
    Was the original comment spoken or written

    If spoken “he’s a terrible human being” is a fairly genial slap. It’s not meant to be taken literally.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270
    edited October 2023
    A
    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    There are days I despair of the UK: the disconnect of the political classes from the working class, the conversion of the UK into a machine that consumes people to make profit for foreigners, the massive debt, the endless complaints of the chattering classes.

    But every now and then I see something that makes my heart cheer. I present to you the Fairy Bridge of Stiffkey.

    A bridge in the Norfolk Marshes was removed by the National Trust. They intend to replace it, but it is dragging on, stating that “...what makes this project complex is the multiple ownership, multiple designations, multiple permissions and the construction regulations we need to follow to ensure that we build a bridge that’s legally compliant, robust, safe and suitable for this inter-tidal coastal location...”, whilst filing papers in the "Beware of the Leopard" cabinet in the basement.

    Meanwhile a crude bridge has been constructed by unknown entities, stopping just short of the banks and thus ensuring that it falls under "Natural England" jurisdiction not the "National Trust"

    When asked the locals say that it's a mystery and the fairies must have built it. Certainly Ian Curtis (not that one!), the convener of the "Rebuild Stiffkey Marsh Bridge" campaign holds this belief, stating that after the old one was removed "...The police were informed. But, of course, the fairies were watching and they put another one up..."

    He then added "...A better one this time, which is much harder to take down..." whilst putting away his tools and cleaning the mud off his wellies, softly whistling "Killing in the Name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current fight over NT leadership, they certainly do seem to have an institutional tone deafness about them.
    The perfect touch to the story is at the end

    “The National Trust says it is now going ahead with plans to replace the bridge, at a cost of £250,000, but needs planning permission and expects the new structure to be in place by autumn 2024.”

    It’s a plank over a ditch. Say a dozen feet long. £20k a foot. Nice work if you can get it. Makes you wonder who the contractor that does the job is related to.
  • StillWatersStillWaters Posts: 8,259

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine, US cooperate to retrofit Soviet-era air defenses with Western missiles

    FrankenSAM program combines Buk launchers with US Sea Sparrow missiles in one version, and Soviet-era radars with AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles in another, NYT reported.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1718356953397678156

    Good that Israel/Palestine hasn't stopped the Americans and ourselves helping Ukraine, despite what Putin is no doubt hoping. Both conflicts are horrifying from a humanitarian point of view, but Russia poses a threat to western civilisation in a way that Hamas doesn't, though no doubt it would like to.
    Russia seem to have spent the last few years making the worst possible decision all the time. The last few weeks being no exception.

    Putin had a cool relationship with Netanyahu, they clearly disliked each other but were not treating each other as enemies. Despite America historically being Israel's ally, and the USSR historically being the Palestinians, until the end of the Cold War, Putin who has wanted to revive the Cold War was not openly on the side of Hamas despite them both having Iran as a common denominator. As a result Israel wasn't sharing its weapons with Ukraine out of fear that any they sent that got intercepted could end up with Iran.

    Now in the last few weeks Putin has come out clearly and unambiguously on the side of Hamas. He's made a clear enemy out of Israel. I'm sure that won't come to bite him
    in the ass at all, not one bit, no sir.
    May be that was Iran’s price for their support?
  • HYUFDHYUFD Posts: 122,969
    edited October 2023
    Andy_JS said:

    "Minister pictured campaigning with suspended former Tory MP Peter Bone

    Tom Pursglove was photographed with the Wellingborough MP, who was found to have indecently exposed himself to a staff member."

    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/peter-bone-minister-wellingborough-commons-department-for-work-and-pensions-b2437800.html

    Apparently the campaigning took place just a few hours ago.

    He was campaigning for a Tory council candidate not Bone, Bone just happened to be at the same campaign day
  • Jim_MillerJim_Miller Posts: 2,999
    This article in the Washington Post, "How Hamas broke through Israel’s border defenses during Oct. 7 attack", will interest almost anyone who follows military affairs:
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/hamas-attack-israel-october-7-hostages/

    For example:

    "Only at 8:06 a.m. — an hour and a half after the start of the assault — did the Israel Defense Forces report a “combined attack.” At 8:25, with a large number of Israelis already dead, it declared “a state of alert for war.”

    Placing key command centers so close to the border was a key mistake, said a former senior Israeli intelligence officer, who spoke to The Post on the condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the subject."

    (A small notice in the body of the article says: "No subscription required to read.")
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    HYUFD said:



    CatMan said:

    https://x.com/JoshKraushaar/status/1718331668535095495?s=20

    "BREAKING; Mike Pence drops out of presidential race at RJC summit this afternoon."

    I still think he had a chance in Iowa. May be a tactical decision to go above the fray so he is the compromise establishment candidate if Trump is jailed and there is a deadlocked convention with no candidate having a majority of delegates
    Or maybe you were just wrong.
    When Trump picked Pence for VP, Pence was in personal financial trouble - he had so little pull in American politics that he was failing to get the gravy. Let alone the pork.

    Trump picked him to be a rubber stamp non-entity.
  • .

    Hee's an observation that some of you may find cheering: At the beginning of 2008, it was widely accepted that Hilary Clinton would be the Democratic nominee. I pointed out -- at the time -- that she had about 50 percent support, much of it soft. And that an early defeat, for example in Iowa, might cause the other 50 percent to rally behind another candidate.

    Which is what happened.

    And now I see some -- let me repeat, some -- similarities to that situation on the Republican side. If Nikki Haley were to win in New Hampshire, I think the odds of her winning the Republican nomination should be upped to at least 25 percent. Reminder: Independents can vote in the New Hampshire primaries. (If there is no real contest on the Democratic side, that would give her an even stronger advantage in that primary.) If that were followed by a victory in her home state of South Carolina, then her odds should be increased.

    I hope for the sake of America you are right.

    If Trump is the nominee then anyone rational, and anyone who cares for Ukraine (which should be anyone in the first category anyway) needs to hope the Democrat candidate wins the Presidency. No matter how much you might oppose capital-D Democratic politics, the support of lower-case-d democratic politics has to come before party politics.

    If Haley is the nominee, I'd support her over any of the commonly discussed Democrat candidates. I think she'd win too.
  • MalmesburyMalmesbury Posts: 50,270

    Fishing said:

    Nigelb said:

    Ukraine, US cooperate to retrofit Soviet-era air defenses with Western missiles

    FrankenSAM program combines Buk launchers with US Sea Sparrow missiles in one version, and Soviet-era radars with AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles in another, NYT reported.

    https://twitter.com/EuromaidanPress/status/1718356953397678156

    Good that Israel/Palestine hasn't stopped the Americans and ourselves helping Ukraine, despite what Putin is no doubt hoping. Both conflicts are horrifying from a humanitarian point of view, but Russia poses a threat to western civilisation in a way that Hamas doesn't, though no doubt it would like to.
    Russia seem to have spent the last few years making the worst possible decision all the time. The last few weeks being no exception.

    Putin had a cool relationship with Netanyahu, they clearly disliked each other but were not treating each other as enemies. Despite America historically being Israel's ally, and the USSR historically being the Palestinians, until the end of the Cold War, Putin who has wanted to revive the Cold War was not openly on the side of Hamas despite them both having Iran as a common denominator. As a result Israel wasn't sharing its weapons with Ukraine out of fear that any they sent that got intercepted could end up with Iran.

    Now in the last few weeks Putin has come out clearly and unambiguously on the side of Hamas. He's made a clear enemy out of Israel. I'm sure that won't come to bite him
    in the ass at all, not one bit, no sir.
    May be that was Iran’s price for their support?
    World politics really is friendship groups for adults, isn’t it?

    If you are down with the cool kids then you get invites to Davos. If your only bestie is North Korea, you get to re-enact Sideways. Only without the wine.
  • I laughed


  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558
    viewcode said:

    Rando YouTube weather forecaster forecasting weather for Winter 2023/4 for Europe, including UK&Ire.

    No idea if she's right or not, so DYOR.

    https://youtu.be/4j3KOPHt7Cg?si=rqtzWNP-D1tuzVjK&t=320

    Interesting.
  • Andy_JSAndy_JS Posts: 32,558

    Hee's an observation that some of you may find cheering: At the beginning of 2008, it was widely accepted that Hilary Clinton would be the Democratic nominee. I pointed out -- at the time -- that she had about 50 percent support, much of it soft. And that an early defeat, for example in Iowa, might cause the other 50 percent to rally behind another candidate.

    Which is what happened.

    And now I see some -- let me repeat, some -- similarities to that situation on the Republican side. If Nikki Haley were to win in New Hampshire, I think the odds of her winning the Republican nomination should be upped to at least 25 percent. Reminder: Independents can vote in the New Hampshire primaries. (If there is no real contest on the Democratic side, that would give her an even stronger advantage in that primary.) If that were followed by a victory in her home state of South Carolina, then her odds should be increased.

    I think there's a good chance the candidate won't be Trump.
  • MikeLMikeL Posts: 7,706
    edited October 2023
    carnforth said:

    Farage in talks to do Celebrity jungle show says Sun on Sunday.

    This could get very interesting...

    Apparently Matt Hancock got £400k, so it may be just for the money.
    That's what the tabloids claimed.

    But, as always, they were somewhat exaggerating.

    He actually got £320k.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64421025
  • Casino_RoyaleCasino_Royale Posts: 60,457
    carnforth said:

    viewcode said:

    There are days I despair of the UK: the disconnect of the political classes from the working class, the conversion of the UK into a machine that consumes people to make profit for foreigners, the massive debt, the endless complaints of the chattering classes.

    But every now and then I see something that makes my heart cheer. I present to you the Fairy Bridge of Stiffkey.

    A bridge in the Norfolk Marshes was removed by the National Trust. They intend to replace it, but it is dragging on, stating that “...what makes this project complex is the multiple ownership, multiple designations, multiple permissions and the construction regulations we need to follow to ensure that we build a bridge that’s legally compliant, robust, safe and suitable for this inter-tidal coastal location...”, whilst filing papers in the "Beware of the Leopard" cabinet in the basement.

    Meanwhile a crude bridge has been constructed by unknown entities, stopping just short of the banks and thus ensuring that it falls under "Natural England" jurisdiction not the "National Trust"

    When asked the locals say that it's a mystery and the fairies must have built it. Certainly Ian Curtis (not that one!), the convener of the "Rebuild Stiffkey Marsh Bridge" campaign holds this belief, stating that after the old one was removed "...The police were informed. But, of course, the fairies were watching and they put another one up..."

    He then added "...A better one this time, which is much harder to take down..." whilst putting away his tools and cleaning the mud off his wellies, softly whistling "Killing in the Name"

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/oct/28/norfolk-marsh-bridge-national-trust

    Whatever the rights and wrongs of the current fight over NT leadership, they certainly do seem to have an institutional tone deafness about them.
    Any very large organisation can fall prey to this - it ends up tying itself up in knots on policy, procedure and compliance and essentially ends up serving itself, not others.
This discussion has been closed.